Stuart Broad bows out from all forms of professional cricket with a fairytale farewell

[Ted123]

He is nearing to 400 test wickets( currently 393 wkts) and still has 2-3 years of good performance with the bowl left. He averages 28 with the bowl currently.

Where do you rank him among the best bowlers of his era?

 

[Bilal7]

Definitely in the top six-seven from his era:

1) Steyn
2) Anderson
3) Johnson
4) Philander
5) Harris
6) Broad

Considering that Starc, Amir, Boult, etc are from a newer era.

A very good bowler who can be destructive on his day. If he was a bit quicker, he had the potential to outclass Anderson.

 

[Ab Fan]

Excellent bowler. He is behind only Steyn from his era. He is clearly better than Jimmy who is overrated and has poor record everywhere outside home except UAE.

If he continues performing great for 2-3 years with few more standout performances against top sides, he will become an ATG. Under appreciated cricketer.

 

[Robert]

Pretty good though he has dropped half a yard in pace of late. He needs that back.

Early on he was trying to be an enforcer which didn't work at his pace. Then he started copying McGrath, aiming at the top of off-pole and results started flowing.

More of a seamer/cutter than a swinger. Gets good bounce from his height. Averages 28 overall which is good in this era. Goodish overseas too, over the last seven years.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Always a bridesmaids, never the bride.

He's good but he's a support bowler. He's lived in the shadow of Anderson. Don't know if he'll be able to lead the attack on his own. That Ashes spell in 4th Test was very much a fluke I believe.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He can do well on most of the surfaces except may be flat wickets. HE doesn't need too much assistance. Just a bit of help is enough for him.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Far superior to Dukerson.

 

[Justcrazy]

He is among the top ten bowlers of his era . There is no doubt about that. I think he will not get to 500 test wickets, unless he really puts in some really good performances. But still 450 wickets would be good legacy to leave.

 

[Hasan123]

Has troubled the likes of Amla,ABD, and Michael Clarke. Not an ATG bowler but an England great and someone on his day can run through a batting line up.

 

[Godhelpma]

Excellent bowler. He is behind only Steyn from his era. He is clearly better than Jimmy who is overrated and has poor record everywhere outside home except UAE.

If he continues performing great for 2-3 years with few more standout performances against top sides, he will become an ATG. Under appreciated cricketer.

Easy mate! A bowler with average of almost 29(currently 28.77) will never be considered an ATG even if he keeps on playing for infinity.

 

[Protea Fan]

Great bowler,when he retires most probably will end up as the second best of this generation behind steyn

I would prefer him over anderson overall....Even in this ongoing ashes he is the only english bowler who looks like getting some wickets though a bit unlucky he's

 

[Princejain191]

Better than Jimmy! Top-class. Should comfortably end up as England's greatest fast bowler ever. Still has a lot of time, but does need to have a big series in Asia. Was England's best in India'16, SA'16, Ashes'15 and will be in Ashes'17. Has already had match and series defining performances in Australia.

 

[Robert]

Far superior to Dukerson.

Despite the inferior away average?

 

[aloo paratha]

Good bowler, he's only 31 so he definitely has a chance to get 500. He always bowls good lines and lengths and has been unlucky this whole year to be honest. Always bowls well but never seems to get a big bag of wickets, but he is always chipping in.

In my opinion he is better than Anderson, he can bowl well in pretty much any conditions, even did decently in India.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Despite the inferior away average?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-to-sack-Trevor-Bayliss&p=9524085#post9524085

 

[Last Monetarist]

A class below Anderson. He's arguably going to become the worst fast bowler to join the 400 wicket club.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Despite the inferior away average?

Always a bridesmaids, never the bride.

He's good but he's a support bowler. He's lived in the shadow of Anderson. Don't know if he'll be able to lead the attack on his own. That Ashes spell in 4th Test was very much a fluke I believe.

Excellent bowler. He is behind only Steyn from his era. He is clearly better than Jimmy who is overrated and has poor record everywhere outside home except UAE.

If he continues performing great for 2-3 years with few more standout performances against top sides, he will become an ATG. Under appreciated cricketer.

Far superior to Dukerson.

Yes, one can argue that Broad is better than Anderson as a bowler and it would be a valid argument.

But it's one thing to be a BIT more versatile and another to lead an attack and win tons of games (most at home) consistently for years.

Being the lead bowler in an attack is a responsibility and burden. Not all are made for it.

The load Anderson takes on his shoulders is FAR greater than Broad and for that he is rightly rated as the better bowler. Broad being a great support bowler with a murderous streak when he gets into mood.

 

[Mamoon]

Broad better than Anderson? That's rubbish.

Anderson has his shortcomings, but he is the best swing bowler since Wasim Akram. No other bowler of his era has been able to master both in-swing and out-swing with the new ball, and Anderson does that with the same action and immaculate control.

If he would have been a few clicks quicker, he would have been a genuine ATG. He has troubled some of the greatest batsman the game has ever seen and takes a very high percentage of top-order wickers. However, he struggles to wipe out tail-enders. That is where his lack of pace comes into play.

Broad is an excellent bowler but he has never been England's main bowler and never will be. He started off as aa sidekick to Anderson before graduating to his partner in crime. He has had his moments, but he has never done enough to overshadow Anderson.

I think Anderson just about gets into the bottom rung of the ATG category. He has achieved enough in his career to be more than just an English great. On the other hand, I don't think Broad has done enough to deserve that status.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Broad better than Anderson? That's rubbish.

Anderson has his shortcomings, but he is the best swing bowler since Wasim Akram. No other bowler of his era has been able to master both in-swing and out-swing with the new ball, and Anderson does that with the same action and immaculate control.

If he would have been a few clicks quicker, he would have been a genuine ATG. He has troubled some of the greatest batsman the game has ever seen and takes a very high percentage of top-order wickers. However, he struggles to wipe out tail-enders. That is where his lack of pace comes into play.

Broad is an excellent bowler but he has never been England's main bowler and never will be. He started off as a sidekick to Anderson before graduating to his partner in crime. He has had his moments, but he has never done enough to overshadow Anderson.

I think Anderson just about gets into the bottom rung of the ATG category. He has achieved enough in his career to be more than just an English great. On the other hand, I don't think Broad has done enough to deserve that status.

Anderson doesn't hit the deck hard enough at a good enough pace.

That's a pretty huge weakness which is why he has been massacred on SA and Aus pitches (except one).

 

[Last Monetarist]

Broad better than Anderson? That's rubbish.

Anderson has his shortcomings, but he is the best swing bowler since Wasim Akram. No other bowler of his era has been able to master both in-swing and out-swing with the new ball, and Anderson does that with the same action and immaculate control.

If he would have been a few clicks quicker, he would have been a genuine ATG. He has troubled some of the greatest batsman the game has ever seen and takes a very high percentage of top-order wickers. However, he struggles to wipe out tail-enders. That is where his lack of pace comes into play.

Broad is an excellent bowler but he has never been England's main bowler and never will be. He started off as aa sidekick to Anderson before graduating to his partner in crime. He has had his moments, but he has never done enough to overshadow Anderson.

I think Anderson just about gets into the bottom rung of the ATG category. He has achieved enough in his career to be more than just an English great. On the other hand, I don't think Broad has done enough to deserve that status.

I know this will be treated as heresy on this board, but as someone who has seen Anderson from the beginning of his career and also saw a fair bit of Wasim post 1992, I can comfortably say that Anderson is a better conventional swing bowler than Wasim. Wasim, of course, was a different beast with the old ball and didn't rely on pure swing like Anderson and thus was a miles better bowler. Nonetheless, I think there are certain posters on here that have a laughable understanding of the game, probably because they have never bothered to play it. Anyone that disregards Anderson's talent at swinging the ball doesn't understand fast bowling.

 

[Mamoon]

I know this will be treated as heresy on this board, but as someone who has seen Anderson from the beginning of his career and also saw a fair bit of Wasim post 1992, I can comfortably say that Anderson is a better conventional swing bowler than Wasim. Wasim, of course, was a different beast with the old ball and didn't rely on pure swing like Anderson and thus was a miles better bowler. Nonetheless, I think there are certain posters on here that have a laughable understanding of the game, probably because they have never bothered to play it. Anyone that disregards Anderson's talent at swinging the ball doesn't understand fast bowling.

Anderson probably beats Wasim when it comes to swinging the new ball both ways at will, but I was mostly speaking from the perspective of bowling magic deliveries. I think he is the closest thing to Wasim Akram in the last two decades or so.

A grossly underrated bowler on PP. I am not a bowling person, but Anderson with the new ball in swinging conditions is undoubtedly the best sight in world cricket at the moment. His action, wrist position and release point are a sight to behold.

 

[Mamoon]

Anderson doesn't hit the deck hard enough at a good enough pace.

That's a pretty huge weakness which is why he has been massacred on SA and Aus pitches (except one).

Yes it all comes down to his lack of pace, and that is the biggest difference between him and Steyn. Anderson beats Steyn when it comes to skill, but Steyn's ability to crank up his pace makes him much more effective on flat tracks.

I consider pace a trait and not a skill. You either have it or you don't, but you can develop skills over the years which Anderson has. He has always had a knack for swinging the ball miles, but he never learned to control it until 2007-2008, and that is when he learned to reverse the ball as well.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yes it all comes down to his lack of pace, and that is the biggest difference between him and Steyn. Anderson beats Steyn when it comes to skill, but Steyn's ability to crank up his pace makes him much more effective on flat tracks.

I consider pace a trait and not a skill. You either have it or you don't, but you can develop skills over the years which Anderson has. He has always had a knack for swinging the ball miles, but he never learned to control it until 2007-2008, and that is when he learned to reverse the ball as well.

I don't think its only about pace.

McGrath was Anderson speed for most of his career (or atleast a good part of it) but he could hit the deck and get the ball jag around dangerously.

As a pure swing bowler, Anderson is an absolute monster.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Anderson probably beats Wasim when it comes to swinging the new ball both ways at will, but I was mostly speaking from the perspective of bowling magic deliveries. I think he is the closest thing to Wasim Akram in the last two decades or so.

A grossly underrated bowler on PP. I am not a bowling person, but Anderson with the new ball in swinging conditions is undoubtedly the best sight in world cricket at the moment. His action, wrist position and release point are a sight to behold.

Okay Anderson is possibly the best swing bowler of this millenium but he is certainly no Wasim. Wasim had the natural swing, Anderson doesn't have that. He developed his skills pretty late into his career, Wasim did that earlier. When it comes to natural swing, I think only Steyn from this era is comparable to Wasim. Anderson is a manufactured product who developed these skills with time. Wasim and Steyn were born with it.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think its only about pace.

McGrath was Anderson speed for most of his career (or atleast a good part of it) but he could hit the deck and get the ball jag around dangerously.

As a pure swing bowler, Anderson is an absolute monster.

McGrath had the height. Anderson is not tall enough to hit the deck hard at his pace.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I don't think its only about pace.

McGrath was Anderson speed for most of his career (or atleast a good part of it) but he could hit the deck and get the ball jag around dangerously.

As a pure swing bowler, Anderson is an absolute monster.

McGrath was a different type of bowler though, he could extract natural bounce from the wicket simply because of his height like another great fast bowler from the 90's, Curtly Ambrose. Anderson has never had that height advantage. He started off as a tearaway who could regularly bowl around 90mph, but as usual injuries and traditional English coaches tampered with his action so that he lost that yard of pace. Anyone who saw him bowl 12 or so years ago could never have predicted the kind of career he has had.

 

[Mamoon]

Okay Anderson is possibly the best swing bowler of this millenium but he is certainly no Wasim. Wasim had the natural swing, Anderson doesn't have that. He developed his skills pretty late into his career, Wasim did that earlier. When it comes to natural swing, I think only Steyn from this era is comparable to Wasim. Anderson is a manufactured product who developed these skills with time. Wasim and Steyn were born with it.

Anderson had a tremendous gift for swing. I don't think you have watched a young Anderson (circa 2003). My earliest memories of Anderson are his spell against Pakistan in the 2003 World Cup and his Test debut at Lord's in the same year. Breath-taking spells of pure swing bowling.

What Anderson did not have is control - he was not able to dictate when to swing the ball and when to bowl what. The coaches tried to mess with his action and it pretty much ruined his career, but he pulled himself together in the late 2000's and mastered the art of swinging the ball at will with great control. Since then, he has been fantastic and has produced high class spells in every country.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Okay Anderson is possibly the best swing bowler of this millenium but he is certainly no Wasim. Wasim had the natural swing, Anderson doesn't have that. He developed his skills pretty late into his career, Wasim did that earlier. When it comes to natural swing, I think only Steyn from this era is comparable to Wasim. Anderson is a manufactured product who developed these skills with time. Wasim and Steyn were born with it.

Is there a difference between developing a skill and being born with it? In many ways, mastering a skill is more commendable and noteworthy. Anyway, sounds like a pretty churlish argument to me. For what it's worth, I think swing bowling comes naturally to Anderson too.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

McGrath was a different type of bowler though, he could extract natural bounce from the wicket simply because of his height like another great fast bowler from the 90's, Curtly Ambrose. Anderson has never had that height advantage. He started off as a tearaway who could regularly bowl around 90mph, but as usual injuries and traditional English coaches tampered with his action so that he lost that yard of pace. Anyone who saw him bowl 12 or so years ago could never have predicted the kind of career he has had.

Natural bounce yes. But movement of the surface is important too.

Yeah Anderson was a proper fast bowler when he started out.

 

[Mamoon]

Hazlewood is the closest thing to McGrath since McGrath, and I daresay better. I think he can do everything that McGrath could and more.

 

[James]

Good player but not a great. He spits his dummy out too often. A potential matchwinner and he has turned matches upside down occasionally, but when things aren’t going his way he is quick to throw his teddies out of the pram. Nevertheless, talent-wise he is close to the complete bowler.

 

[Rana]

Hazlewood is the closest thing to McGrath since McGrath, and I daresay better. I think he can do everything that McGrath could and more.

There is a long, long way to go to say he is better. McGrath is penciled in as an ATG but in the gold category. He is what Bradman, Tendulkar and Lara are but as a bowler. Hazlewood is class but he needs to get near that 1000 international wicket mark in ODI and Tests (as McGrath didnt play T20i) and then it would be a great comparison, but I dont think Hazlewood will get there because he will have his career short-lived due to the immense amount of cricket played around the world

 

[Rana]

If Broad had not destroyed Zulqarnain Haider's career by throwing the ball at him in anger, I would have said that Broad is an excellent bowler for Test Cricket.

 

[Robert]

Okay Anderson is possibly the best swing bowler of this millenium but he is certainly no Wasim. Wasim had the natural swing, Anderson doesn't have that. He developed his skills pretty late into his career, Wasim did that earlier. When it comes to natural swing, I think only Steyn from this era is comparable to Wasim. Anderson is a manufactured product who developed these skills with time. Wasim and Steyn were born with it.

Eh? Anderson has been bowling banana swing both ways since 2003. What the other two had was pace as well as excellent accuracy and orthodox swing.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Yes, one can argue that Broad is better than Anderson as a bowler and it would be a valid argument.

But it's one thing to be a BIT more versatile and another to lead an attack and win tons of games (most at home) consistently for years.

Being the lead bowler in an attack is a responsibility and burden. Not all are made for it.

The load Anderson takes on his shoulders is FAR greater than Broad and for that he is rightly rated as the better bowler. Broad being a great support bowler with a murderous streak when he gets into mood.

Broad has won them just as many games if not more. Don't give me that **.

The load Anderson takes? Please. As if Broad is serving pies on the other end. He has 400 wickets for a reason and is far superior away.

Dukerson fan boys are the most deluded on this forum. He's an overrated swing bowler who struggles to swing the kookaburra except in perfect conditions. Even when he does, it's marginal swing that most quality players can negotiate.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Dukes should make Anderson's face their logo.

 

[Syed1]

Neither Anderson nor Broad are that great. They get a lot of hype because they are English. Heck the English even hyped up 2nd grade spinners like Swann to the moon.

These two pansies play only one format and 90% of their matches in bowling friendly conditions.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Anderson had a tremendous gift for swing. I don't think you have watched a young Anderson (circa 2003). My earliest memories of Anderson are his spell against Pakistan in the 2003 World Cup and his Test debut at Lord's in the same year. Breath-taking spells of pure swing bowling.

What Anderson did not have is control - he was not able to dictate when to swing the ball and when to bowl what. The coaches tried to mess with his action and it pretty much ruined his career, but he pulled himself together in the late 2000's and mastered the art of swinging the ball at will with great control. Since then, he has been fantastic and has produced high class spells in every country.

I have, he only started swinging the ball outside of England and green tops after 2007. Wasim and Steyn could hoop the ball around in the desert or rank turners. Anderson surely had a gift for swing but like many previous bowlers before him, he was not able to do so on every pitch. Wasim and Steyn have a natural shape of the ball, which Anderson acquired with consistency 4-5 years after debuting.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Is there a difference between developing a skill and being born with it? In many ways, mastering a skill is more commendable and noteworthy. Anyway, sounds like a pretty churlish argument to me. For what it's worth, I think swing bowling comes naturally to Anderson too.

Not really. I also think developing a skill is more commendable, like Harris added a variety of arsenal in his bowling with time. As I said, Anderson was not able to swing it in every condition with every sort of ball while his contemporary Steyn has a natural away swinger, which he has been doing with perfection on every ground whether it's Kookaburra, SG or Dukes. But yes, Anderson has brilliantly controlled and accurate left and right swingers that Steyn doesn't possess.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Eh? Anderson has been bowling banana swing both ways since 2003. What the other two had was pace as well as excellent accuracy and orthodox swing.

Like I said Anderson had it in him to do that but not everywhere. He was deadly on green tops and in England especially with the Dukes. Although Anderson could swing it both ways but he could not do it with consistently everywhere. It was only after 2007 that he finally learned to control the amount of swing, while Steyn has been consistently swinging towards left side since his debut everywhere, an ability that is still there. While Anderson was blowing hot and cold, especially in the subcontinent and Australia.

 

[giri26]

Anderson is a good bowler but with 500 wickets, he needs to be one of the greats. Not many bowlers get to that many wickets. But coming back to Stuart Broad, he is again an England great. He has picked up loads of wickets. I surely rate him ahead of Anderson outside England, he bowls pretty well on the Australian roads as well.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Broad has won them just as many games if not more. Don't give me that **.

The load Anderson takes? Please. As if Broad is serving pies on the other end. He has 400 wickets for a reason and is far superior away.

Dukerson fan boys are the most deluded on this forum. He's an overrated swing bowler who struggles to swing the kookaburra except in perfect conditions. Even when he does, it's marginal swing that most quality players can negotiate.

Except for the England's SA tour where Broad was better, what exactly has Broad won for England when Anderson flopped?

2012 India series, it was Anderson who destroyed us in Kolkata where Broad went wicketless for the 2 games he played against our over the hill lineup.

2010 Ashes in Aus, Anderson destroyed Australia while Broad was not in the frame (injury or whatever).

In UAE tour recently where both bowlers had little impact on the results, Anderson had 13 wickets compared to Broad's 7.

In England, Anderson is the bigger match winner anyday.

Today when it was swinging and England needed to strike, Anderson picked up a 5fer while Broad went wicketless.

What's the use of more varied skills (which undoubtedly Broad possesses) when the deliverables aren't quite there?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Except for the England's SA tour where Broad was better, what exactly has Broad won for England when Anderson flopped?

2012 India series, it was Anderson who destroyed us in Kolkata where Broad went wicketless for the 2 games he played against our over the hill lineup.

2010 Ashes in Aus, Anderson destroyed Australia while Broad was not in the frame (injury or whatever).

In UAE tour recently where both bowlers had little impact on the results, Anderson had 13 wickets compared to Broad's 7.

In England, Anderson is the bigger match winner anyday.

Today when it was swinging and England needed to strike, Anderson picked up a 5fer while Broad went wicketless.

What's the use of more varied skills (which undoubtedly Broad possesses) when the deliverables aren't quite there?

Broad was really good in Aus last Ashes too but England team was bad...that's true.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Except for the England's SA tour where Broad was better, what exactly has Broad won for England when Anderson flopped?

2012 India series, it was Anderson who destroyed us in Kolkata where Broad went wicketless for the 2 games he played against our over the hill lineup.

2010 Ashes in Aus, Anderson destroyed Australia while Broad was not in the frame (injury or whatever).

In UAE tour recently where both bowlers had little impact on the results, Anderson had 13 wickets compared to Broad's 7.

In England, Anderson is the bigger match winner anyday.

Today when it was swinging and England needed to strike, Anderson picked up a 5fer while Broad went wicketless.

What's the use of more varied skills (which undoubtedly Broad possesses) when the deliverables aren't quite there?

Anderson did not destroy anyone. He bowled well along with England as a group to win that game. Let's not talk about the latest tour because Broad was levels ahead and the pitches were absolute roads.

Weakest Aussie team ever. He's flopped in all his other tours to no surprise. Broad's bowled much better overall but just hasn't had any support. Averaging 27 in his last tour when the team's getting hammered from all ends is arguably a greater performance. You can't win singlehandedly in Australia.

Broad was superior their previous tour.

No, he's not. Broad wins just as many. Sure, Anderson woos the ignorant with aesthetics of swinging the dukes ball but when it comes down to bringing the team back from jaws of defeat, Broad has been better. You can argue either case. There isn't much of a margin.

Anderson bowled well but it's not as if Broad bowled rubbish. He was moving the ball too much to catch the edge and it wasn't a length problem because he was consistently full. If we're talking value of wickets then Woakes picked up more crucial wickets. Anyway, I'm not sure why you've listed this game. England needed wickets from Anderson before Australia put up 450. If they win this game then you can use this as an example.

If we're talking consistent match winning series performances away from home then the deliverables aren't there from either. But generally, against the big dogs, Broad has produced better results on flatter tracks with the kookaburra where Anderson has been a complete dud.

Hence why it irritates me when people call him ATG or overrate him because he would not have his overall record if he mainly bowled with the kookaburra. He's so heavily conditions and ball reliant, it's ridiculous.

Sure, I appreciate the skill he shows with Dukes and would like to elaborate on his veteran savvy skills the kookaburra even if they aren't wicket taking but his fan boys irritate me to the extent where I'm constantly criticizing even if I don't want to. He's quite a skilled bowler and it's a shame he isn't able to generate bounce due to the collapse in his action because he could've been a great bowler with the kookaburra regardless of his struggles with swing.

To summarize, Broad is superior because he's been just as effective at home and more effective away from home in tough conditions with the kookaburra. Broad singlehandedly winning England the series against SA is better than whatever Anderson's best away from home is.

Anyway, I'm done here. I've said what I wanted to. Hope my thoughts were clear.

 

[Bilal7]

Hashim Amla averages like 120 runs against Anderson and more than half that against Broad, by the way.

 

[Mamoon]

There is a long, long way to go to say he is better. McGrath is penciled in as an ATG but in the gold category. He is what Bradman, Tendulkar and Lara are but as a bowler. Hazlewood is class but he needs to get near that 1000 international wicket mark in ODI and Tests (as McGrath didnt play T20i) and then it would be a great comparison, but I dont think Hazlewood will get there because he will have his career short-lived due to the immense amount of cricket played around the world

I’m talking about ability and potential, not career.

 

[Godhelpma]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] , you are talking like some Ppers used to do that about amir vs waseem I.e talent wise ,asif vs some other bowlers etc.Similary you are trying to prove hazelwood better than McGrath talent wise , come on ! McGrath is arguably one of the best all time fast bowlers . It is not necessary to overhype all the foreigners who are performing well .Lately you have been doing that exaggeration on consistent basis (I read most of ur comments) .Let the hazelwood Take half of the wickets McGrath took ,before making such comparisons, let alone declaring him better .

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] , you are talking like some Ppers used to do that about amir vs waseem I.e talent wise ,asif vs some other bowlers etc.Similary you are trying to prove hazelwood better than McGrath talent wise , come on ! McGrath is arguably one of the best all time fast bowlers . It is not necessary to overhype all the foreigners who are performing well .Lately you have been doing that exaggeration on consistent basis (I read most of ur comments) .Let the hazelwood Take half of the wickets McGrath took ,before making such comparisons, let alone declaring him better .

Amir was Wasim a poor comparison based on one series in dream bowling conditions. Amir has always struggled to take wickets on flat pitches, simply doesn’t have the skills that Wasim had to create magic out of nothing.

There is nothing in McGrath’s locker that Hazlewood does not have. Again, I’m not talking achievements here - it will be nearly impossible for any bowler to have a better career than McGrath.

The difference between Amir and Hazlewood is that the former is all hype but little action, but the latter has been a top bowler for a number of years now, and delivers with great consistency.

 

[Ab Fan]

Anderson did not destroy anyone. He bowled well along with England as a group to win that game. Let's not talk about the latest tour because Broad was levels ahead and the pitches were absolute roads.

Weakest Aussie team ever. He's flopped in all his other tours to no surprise. Broad's bowled much better overall but just hasn't had any support. Averaging 27 in his last tour when the team's getting hammered from all ends is arguably a greater performance. You can't win singlehandedly in Australia.

Broad was superior their previous tour.

No, he's not. Broad wins just as many. Sure, Anderson woos the ignorant with aesthetics of swinging the dukes ball but when it comes down to bringing the team back from jaws of defeat, Broad has been better. You can argue either case. There isn't much of a margin.

Anderson bowled well but it's not as if Broad bowled rubbish. He was moving the ball too much to catch the edge and it wasn't a length problem because he was consistently full. If we're talking value of wickets then Woakes picked up more crucial wickets. Anyway, I'm not sure why you've listed this game. England needed wickets from Anderson before Australia put up 450. If they win this game then you can use this as an example.

<B>If we're talking consistent match winning series performances away from home then the deliverables aren't there from either. But generally, against the big dogs, Broad has produced better results on flatter tracks with the kookaburra where Anderson has been a complete dud.</B>

Hence why it irritates me when people call him ATG or overrate him because he would not have his overall record if he mainly bowled with the kookaburra. He's so heavily conditions and ball reliant, it's ridiculous.

Sure, I appreciate the skill he shows with Dukes and would like to elaborate on his veteran savvy skills the kookaburra even if they aren't wicket taking but his fan boys irritate me to the extent where I'm constantly criticizing even if I don't want to. He's quite a skilled bowler and it's a shame he isn't able to generate bounce due to the collapse in his action because he could've been a great bowler with the kookaburra regardless of his struggles with swing.

<B>To summarize, Broad is superior because he's been just as effective at home and more effective away from home in tough conditions with the kookaburra. Broad singlehandedly winning England the series against SA is better than whatever Anderson's best away from home is.</B>

Anyway, I'm done here. I've said what I wanted to. Hope my thoughts were clear.

Probably this. Important points. I can back Broad to produce that match winning performance against top dogs while Anderson is slightly less skillful for that. Skills aren't valued on PP for some reasons even though it is the first major factor to achieve greatness.

And two more points which people are making about Broad which are false:

1) He is a support bowler. He has already proved that he can lead and decimate lineup aginst top teams. He is no Morne Morkel with the bowl who was good mostly in support role.

2) Anderson has troubled high quality batsmen unlike Broad. Well, Broad has got the better of players like Clarke and de Villiers when they were big dogs. Anderson got the Bettee of fading Tendulkar and unestablished Kohli. Not a fair comparison.

Anderson is still ahead because of longevity but I think its a matter of time that Broad will surpass him.

 

[Ab Fan]

Anderson, Broad and Ashwin will probably end a rung below ATGs.

A total of 4 fifers away from home in such a long career is enough to prove the point that those two aren't ATGs.

 

[Hasan123]

Hashim Amla averages like 120 runs against Anderson and more than half that against Broad, by the way.

Broad has dismissed Amla 8 times I read online.

 

[Robert]

To summarize, Broad is superior because he's been just as effective at home and more effective away from home in tough conditions with the kookaburra. Broad singlehandedly winning England the series against SA is better than whatever Anderson's best away from home is.

Anyway, I'm done here. I've said what I wanted to. Hope my thoughts were clear.

No. Why has Anderson got a better away average than Broad?

 

[aloo paratha]

Again, broad bowled very well with the new ball on day 3 and bowled well in the first hour yesterday as well but ended up with 0 wickets to his name.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

No. Why has Anderson got a better away average than Broad?

Padded his stats against weaker opposition.

 

[Bewal Express]

Both good bowlers with great stats but i never thought of either as a great bowlers. Anderson on flat wickets is just innocuous at times and Broad is average to mediocre in most test matches but then explodes in conditions which suit him. I think Broads problem is that he bowls too much within himself a bit like what Wasim did for many test matches for PK,

 

[hadi123]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Working on my action to get more side on. More twist in my shoulders to get my front arm more towards the target, helping my feet align much better. Walk throughs give me a great feel of how my body is moving. Some balls come out great, some horrible, but I always say try... (1) <a href="https://t.co/P2cJDlgYBX">pic.twitter.com/P2cJDlgYBX</a></p>— Stuart Broad (@StuartBroad8) <a href="https://twitter.com/StuartBroad8/status/963396285054312448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.... (2) different things in training cause if something clicks for you it can help your game, no one cares if you get it wrong in the aim for improvement! <a href="https://t.co/PWMCF32J7i">pic.twitter.com/PWMCF32J7i</a></p>— Stuart Broad (@StuartBroad8) <a href="https://twitter.com/StuartBroad8/status/963396402557616129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Abdul]

England's best after Anderson.

 

[Ab Fan]

Anderson elevated his test legacy after the recent performance against Australia. Broad started well but was overall highly mediocre in that series.

 

[Bilal7]

Anderson and Broad are highly underrated. To put it in perspective, they're better or as good as any pace bowler ever produced by four test-playing nations: England, India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

Broad was also a pretty good ODI bowler before the ECB decided that they couldn't afford to risk him in mickey mouse cricket (their thoughts presumably, not mine).

 

[Ab Fan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Working on my action to get more side on. More twist in my shoulders to get my front arm more towards the target, helping my feet align much better. Walk throughs give me a great feel of how my body is moving. Some balls come out great, some horrible, but I always say try... (1) <a href="https://t.co/P2cJDlgYBX">pic.twitter.com/P2cJDlgYBX</a></p>— Stuart Broad (@StuartBroad8) <a href="https://twitter.com/StuartBroad8/status/963396285054312448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.... (2) different things in training cause if something clicks for you it can help your game, no one cares if you get it wrong in the aim for improvement! <a href="https://t.co/PWMCF32J7i">pic.twitter.com/PWMCF32J7i</a></p>— Stuart Broad (@StuartBroad8) <a href="https://twitter.com/StuartBroad8/status/963396402557616129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I hope he gets back to his best. Loved the way he bowled in South Africa last time.Won the match in Durban and Johannesburg. In contrast, Anderson looked hopeless in that series.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Worst fast bowler to take 300+ test wickets

 

[Ab Fan]

Best bowler for England outside England.

 

[Ahmed_99]

He's on fire this ashes. I've not seen him bowl like this for a long long time. I always thought he was overated but when he's on song, he's a top top bowler

 

[James]

That delivery to Head is one of the best pieces of bowling I’ve seen in a while, absolutely magic ball.

 

[Robert]

Now his pace has come back he will be effective in most conditions.

Has he got one more Australian Ashes in him?

 

[Mamoon]

He has been terrific. Probably as quick as he ever has been, and he is pitching it up.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Good bowler but not a great one. morne morkel level but I would pick morkel over him.

He is better than one dimensional Anderson. Possibly England's best bowler post 1990.

broad too is a conditions based bowler as he has never been effective on flat wickets however he did well at times in U.A.E. He struggled vs india though.

Imo the english player the potential to be a real ATG was Finn. What a terrific bowler. What happened to that wonderful bowler? injuries I suspect. Poor lad. He is the reason why England started winning abroad and ofcourse swann.

But don't worry archer might be up there if he performs at his current level for say another 7 - 10 years. Archer has serious potential to be an ATG.

all top teams have players with a great future.
England have archer
pakistan have shaheen and maybe musa/hasnain
india have bumrah
Australia has jhye richardson
s.africa have ngidi maybe. rabada is in his prime now.
Sri Lanka have some good bowlers but no one strikes me as someone with WC level talent. Maybe kumara.

 

[SLcric123]

Has always been excellent against Australia and SA.

 

[Robert]

Good bowler but not a great one. morne morkel level but I would pick morkel over him.

He is better than one dimensional Anderson. Possibly England's best bowler post 1990.

broad too is a conditions based bowler as he has never been effective on flat wickets however he did well at times in U.A.E. He struggled vs india though.

Imo the english player the potential to be a real ATG was Finn. What a terrific bowler. What happened to that wonderful bowler? injuries I suspect. Poor lad. He is the reason why England started winning abroad and ofcourse swann.

Actually Anderson has the slightly better away record than Broad overall.

Finn was coached badly and lost confidence to bowl fast. He doesn’t even get the new ball for his County now.

 

[shaz619]

One of the best ever for sure

 

[James]

Another brilliant performance yesterday.

He is world class.

 

[Mamoon]

Not this condition-dependency and away average nonsense is again. Both Anderson and Broad are sterling bowlers by any measure.

Comparing him to Morne Morkel in Tests is an ignorant opinion. Morkel was only good for roughing up the batsmen for Steyn and Philander.

He didn’t have the ability to lead an attack like Anderson has for years and Broad did in this Ashes.

 

[Manunited18]

Not this condition-dependency and away average nonsense is again. Both Anderson and Broad are sterling bowlers by any measure.

Comparing him to Morne Morkel in Tests is an ignorant opinion. Morkel was only good for roughing up the batsmen for Steyn and Philander.

He didn’t have the ability to lead an attack like Anderson has for years and Broad did in this Ashes.

Central contracts have played a massive part in both Anderson and broad careers, the longivity they've had is through luxuries of the central contracts, both quality bowlers who both rank in top 20 -30 all time list

 

[Ahmed216]

He’s been outstanding last few seasons. Like a real man he just kept on improving since he started and is now a deadly force. His guile reminds me of Courtney walsh in his last few years

 

[andy0204]

I think since from new Zealand tour last year where he took 6 fer,he has improved, Richard Hadlee gave him the advice to shortening his runup.

 

[Shazzam]

An England legend.

 

[sweep_shot]

Broad is definitely a legend. Broad and Anderson carried England for so many years.

I consider him as a bowling all-rounder.

 

[Robert]

I think since from new Zealand tour last year where he took 6 fer,he has improved, Richard Hadlee gave him the advice to shortening his runup.

And gained pace too!

 

[tyron_woodley]

Not this condition-dependency and away average nonsense is again. Both Anderson and Broad are sterling bowlers by any measure.

Comparing him to Morne Morkel in Tests is an ignorant opinion. Morkel was only good for roughing up the batsmen for Steyn and Philander.

He didn’t have the ability to lead an attack like Anderson has for years and Broad did in this Ashes.

philander is one of the most overrated bowlers ever. His average outside s.africa is mediocre. He is only good when conditions suit him. Broad is far better than that trash.

I rate broad but he isn't a great bowler. He is Good. I would definitelt pick morkel over him and I totally think it's a fair comparison.

 

[jeetu]

From 1970's on he's third best England's bowler after Anderson and Bob Willis.

England's bowler post 1970 (min 200 wickets)
[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RGD Willis [/td][td]1971-1984 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]325 [/td][td]25.2 [/td][td]2.83 [/td][td]53.4 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JM Anderson [/td][td]2003-2019 [/td][td]149 [/td][td]575 [/td][td]26.94 [/td][td]2.87 [/td][td]56.2 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Gough [/td][td]1994-2003 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]229 [/td][td]28.39 [/td][td]3.3 [/td][td]51.6 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IT Botham [/td][td]1977-1992 [/td][td]102 [/td][td]383 [/td][td]28.4 [/td][td]2.99 [/td][td]56.9 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCJ Broad [/td][td]2007-2019 [/td][td]132 [/td][td]467 [/td][td]28.67 [/td][td]2.98 [/td][td]57.7 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Caddick [/td][td]1993-2003 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]234 [/td][td]29.91 [/td][td]3.09 [/td][td]57.9 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Hoggard [/td][td]2000-2008 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]248 [/td][td]30.5 [/td][td]3.26 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SJ Harmison [/td][td]2002-2009 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]222 [/td][td]31.94 [/td][td]3.22 [/td][td]59.4 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Flintoff [/td][td]1998-2009 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]219 [/td][td]33.34 [/td][td]2.97 [/td][td]67.3 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]