Sushma Swaraj to take up alleged forced conversion of Sikhs with Pakistani government

[Abdullah719]

NEW DELHI: External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj on Tuesday expressed concern over reports of Sikhs being forced to convert to Islam in Pakistan's Hangu district and said she will take up the matter with Islamabad at the earliest.

"We will take this up at the highest level with Government of Pakistan. Sikh community in Hangu being forced to convert," she said on Twitter, tagging the official handle of the Indian High Commission in Pakistan in the tweet.

Earlier in the day, Punjab chief minister Capt Amarinder Singh had taken to Twitter to apprise Swaraj of the alleged forced conversions, urging her to take up the matter at the highest level with Pakistani authorities.

On December 16, Pakistani publication Tribune had reported that a government official was forcing members of the Sikh community in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province's Hangu district to convert to Islam.

The community members have lodged a complaint with the deputy commissioner of Hangu, alleging that they were being forced to convert to Islam by assistant commissioner tehsil Tall Yaqoob Khan.

"We the residents of Doaba area are being tortured religiously... The Constitution empowers us to defend our religious beliefs against anyone and we want you to call AC Tall Yaqoob Khan and inquire the issue," the complaint read.

In its defence, the district administration said there was no issue of converting someone forcefully to Islam and the authorities had ensured religious freedom. However, taking cognizance of their complaint, the Sikh community members had been invited to a meeting on Monday to address their grievances.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...pakistani-government/articleshow/62133197.cms

 

[Abdullah719]

Sikh community in Hangu 'being forced to convert'

The Sikh community raised on Friday serious concerns after ‘being forced to convert to Islam’ by a government official in Hangu district of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P).

Lodging a complaint with Deputy Commissioner Hangu Shahid Mehmood, the community members claimed Assistant Commissioner Tehsil Tall Yaqoob Khan was allegedly forcing Sikhs to convert to Islam.

District Nazim Hangu for minority Farid Chand Singh, who filed the complaint, said the community members have been living in the area since 1901 and were never offended by anyone, specifically for religious believes rather lived all their lives peacefully with Muslims.
Singh stated that despite having been a hotbed for sectarian conflicts, residents of Hangu district never harmed them, were never approached by someone to convert to Islam, adding they have friendly relations with Muslims who have always stood up for the community when in need.

“Had it been from someone ordinary, it would have never been felt so offending but when you hear such things from a government official, it becomes something really serious,” Singh told The Express Tribune.

“We the residents of Doaba area are being tortured religiously,” read the complaint.

“The Constitution empowers us to defend our religious beliefs against anyone and we want you to call AC Tall Yaqoob Khan and inquire the issue,” the complaint read, adding that the issues should be investigated so that the community could live in Pakistan with ‘love, peace and harmony’.

When asked, DC Hangu Shahid Mehood said members of the Sikh community were offended during talks with the assistant commissioner, which the assistant commissioner never meant.

There was no such issue of converting someone forcefully to Islam; rather, the district administration ensured religious freedom, he added.

“We have ensured religious freedom and safety of the community members across the district and we are clear about it,” Mehmood told The Express Tribune.

However, on receiving the complaint, the community members have been asked for a meeting on Monday to address their concerns, he added.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1585150/1-sikh-community-hangu-forced-convert/

 

[GBK_Fan]

Get them here if they are not happy there

 

[cr7great]

bring them to india

 

[mmkextreme_1]

If this is happening it is wrong, Islam does not teach force conversion.

On the other hand, Shushma ji needs to look within her own country as well and all the ** that is happening there. Force conversion, force marriage of Muslim women to Hindu men. How is that justice? Considering in Islam women are not allowed to marry outside the religion, can't even imagine what those women are going through.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If this is happening it is wrong, Islam does not teach force conversion.

On the other hand, Shushma ji needs to look within her own country as well and all the ** that is happening there. Force conversion, force marriage of Muslim women to Hindu men. How is that justice? Considering in Islam women are not allowed to marry outside the religion, can't even imagine what those women are going through.

Shushma ji is the external affairs minister, not the home minister. The issue you are raising is someone elses job.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Shushma ji is the external affairs minister, not the home minister. The issue you are raising is someone elses job.

Understandable.

She can still be vocal about it. I mean the hypocrisy in that statement is blatant.

 

[DW44]

What locus standi does Sushma Swaraj have to raise this issue with Pakistan? Since when does she get to have a say on this, especially considering that during her party's government India has gone from being an example for Pakistan to follow, all the way to being Pakistan on steroids?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Understandable.

She can still be vocal about it. I mean the hypocrisy in that statement is blatant.

Explain the hypocrisy. Her job is external affairs, not what goes inside the country. If Pakistan doesn't protect its sikhs, it is India's moral duty to raise concerns. Just like it is Pakistan's moral duty to raise concerns about Muslims the world over.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sounds like a legit complaint and needs to be taken seriously.

 

[rahulrulezz]

Food for Thought: If things are bad in modern Islamic Republic of Pakistan, imagine how bad forced conversions would be under 400 years of Muslim Delhi Sultanate and 350 years of Muslim Mughals.

I have read Amir Khusrao's trancipts from Delhi Sultanate and read biographies like BaburNama,Akbarnama, and you can read how the kings would put policies to do mass conversions.

Sad part is lots of Pakistanis don't realize that most of them were Hindus and Sikhs just a few hundred years back.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Explain the hypocrisy. Her job is external affairs, not what goes inside the country. If Pakistan doesn't protect its sikhs, it is India's moral duty to raise concerns. Just like it is Pakistan's moral duty to raise concerns about Muslims the world over.

Again, isn't she affiliated with the party, I mean she joined a party thus obviously she agrees with the principals of it. I don't understand why you are blindly defending her?

I understand your point, it is not her duty, and as I mentioned above what is/if it is going on with the Sikhs in Pakistan it is wrong. We need strong voices like hers to condemn both sides.

Just imagine, if she condemned both sides. Now Pakistan does raise concerns but that is an everyday norm. If she raises concerns, being in a prominent position she is in. People will have a look into in India.

 

[DW44]

Food for Thought: If things are bad in modern Islamic Republic of Pakistan, imagine how bad forced conversions would be under 400 years of Muslim Delhi Sultanate and 350 years of Muslim Mughals.

Islam 400 years ago, especially in South Asia, was a different beast to Islam today. The hardening of mainstream Islam in this part of the world is a recent phenomenon, going back only to the early 20th century with the rise of Islamist scholars like Maududi, Syed Qutb and Hasan Al-Banna. The rise of extremism and Islamic supremacism came even later, starting in Pakistan in the 1970s as the indigenous Deobandi school of thought was exposed to Wahabi influences (very deliberately) from Saudi Arabia. By all accounts, Muslim rulers in the subcontinent prior to the colonial era were fairly secular and had pretty inclusive policies towards non Muslims, not necessarily out of the goodness of their hearts but out of necessity. A ruler from a religious minority oppressing the majority would work out about as well than as it would now.

 

[Bewal Express]

Firstly, if the report is true then its appalling and the PK needs to look into the offenders and deal with them but the irony is lost on a BJP govt member talking about protecting minorities and forced conversions.

 

[www787]

Food for Thought: If things are bad in modern Islamic Republic of Pakistan, imagine how bad forced conversions would be under 400 years of Muslim Delhi Sultanate and 350 years of Muslim Mughals.

I have read Amir Khusrao's trancipts from Delhi Sultanate and read biographies like BaburNama,Akbarnama, and you can read how the kings would put policies to do mass conversions.

Sad part is lots of Pakistanis don't realize that most of them were Hindus and Sikhs just a few hundred years back.

huh? I was born Muslim, 400 years ago my great great great probably greater than great granpa was Hindu. And, everyone in sub-continent Muslims know that. Thanks for the history lesson.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again, isn't she affiliated with the party, I mean she joined a party thus obviously she agrees with the principals of it. I don't understand why you are blindly defending her?

I understand your point, it is not her duty, and as I mentioned above what is/if it is going on with the Sikhs in Pakistan it is wrong. We need strong voices like hers to condemn both sides.

Just imagine, if she condemned both sides. Now Pakistan does raise concerns but that is an everyday norm. If she raises concerns, being in a prominent position she is in. People will have a look into in India.

What principles of the party she is affiliated with are wrong in your opinion? If some fringe element goes against the party's stand, that is their personal view, not the party's and not Shushma jis.

If you have any issue at all, that should be directed towards india's home ministry, or the ministry of minority affairs, not Shushma ji, who is doing an excellent job as an external affairs minister. I am not sure if in Pakistan one ministry is expected to do the job of other ministries as well.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Firstly, if the report is true then its appalling and the PK needs to look into the offenders and deal with them but the irony is lost on a BJP govt member talking about protecting minorities and forced conversions.

Should Pakistan never talk about Kashmiris or Rohingyas because their own treatment of minorities is poor?

 

[mmkextreme_1]

What principles of the party she is affiliated with are wrong in your opinion? If some fringe element goes against the party's stand, that is their personal view, not the party's and not Shushma jis.

If you have any issue at all, that should be directed towards india's home ministry, or the ministry of minority affairs, not Shushma ji, who is doing an excellent job as an external affairs minister. I am not sure if in Pakistan one ministry is expected to do the job of other ministries as well.

Again, your totally missing the point.

Spare me the rubbish of "what principles of the party she is affiliated with are wrong" we all know what is happening in terms of what BJP brought to the table. She might be doing an excellent job or whatever, but I just find it bemusing she comments on others when extreme cases are going on within her own country. If that isn't hypocrisy then I don't know what is (again I know it's not her job, but in order for people to take such comments seriously one needs to clean there own house, and this stands for both countries, heck for entity).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again, your totally missing the point.

Spare me the rubbish of "what principles of the party she is affiliated with are wrong" we all know what is happening in terms of what BJP brought to the table. She might be doing an excellent job or whatever, but I just find it bemusing she comments on others when extreme cases are going on within her own country. If that isn't hypocrisy then I don't know what is (again I know it's not her job, but in order for people to take such comments seriously one needs to clean there own house, and this stands for both countries, heck for entity).

I am getting your point, and I am dismissing it as rubbish. According to your point, Pakistan has no right to talk about any muslims across the world, till it stops minority persecution, whether by state or non state actors, inside its own borders. How stupid that sounds.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

I am getting your point, and I am dismissing it as rubbish. According to your point, Pakistan has no right to talk about any muslims across the world, till it stops minority persecution, whether by state or non state actors, inside its own borders. How stupid that sounds.

Again, you can dismiss it as whatever. Still doesn't make it wrong.

Even in Pakistan's case whenever someone makes a comment, be it by the state or non-state, how many people actually sit up and take notice? No one. It is considered hypocritical in such sense because everyone knows what the deal is.

The point is to build credibility. As I mentioned above, you can dismiss my point as rubbish, but no one is going to take notice or apply external pressure until one fixes there own home.

Both sides can point fingers all they want.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Food for Thought: If things are bad in modern Islamic Republic of Pakistan, imagine how bad forced conversions would be under 400 years of Muslim Delhi Sultanate and 350 years of Muslim Mughals.

I have read Amir Khusrao's trancipts from Delhi Sultanate and read biographies like BaburNama,Akbarnama, and you can read how the kings would put policies to do mass conversions.

Sad part is lots of Pakistanis don't realize that most of them were Hindus and Sikhs just a few hundred years back.

What's sad about it? Lots of Sikhs and Hindus don't hold onto their religion what is it that Pakistanis are missing out on in particular? If anything the problem with desis abroad is that Pakistanis and other Muslims seem to love their religion far too much and as a result they can be accused of failing to integrate. Hindus and Sikhs find it much easier to discard their religion and are often praised for integrating much easier as a result.

So if anything Pakistanis were just forerunners for today's Hindus and Sikhs in giving up the religions so nothing sad about it at all.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again, you can dismiss it as whatever. Still doesn't make it wrong.

Even in Pakistan's case whenever someone makes a comment, be it by the state or non-state, how many people actually sit up and take notice? No one. It is considered hypocritical in such sense because everyone knows what the deal is.

The point is to build credibility. As I mentioned above, you can dismiss my point as rubbish, but no one is going to take notice or apply external pressure until one fixes there own home.

Both sides can point fingers all they want.

OK, so Burma is not actually sitting up and taking notice because the countries raising the Rohingya issues have not built their credibility. Now I see your excellent point.

 

[cricketjoshila]

With all due respect Sushma Swaraj ji who has been a wonderful EAM, lets concentrate on Indians and let Pakistanis be.

 

[rahulrulezz]

Islam 400 years ago, especially in South Asia, was a different beast to Islam today. The hardening of mainstream Islam in this part of the world is a recent phenomenon, going back only to the early 20th century with the rise of Islamist scholars like Maududi, Syed Qutb and Hasan Al-Banna. The rise of extremism and Islamic supremacism came even later, starting in Pakistan in the 1970s as the indigenous Deobandi school of thought was exposed to Wahabi influences (very deliberately) from Saudi Arabia. By all accounts, Muslim rulers in the subcontinent prior to the colonial era were fairly secular and had pretty inclusive policies towards non Muslims, not necessarily out of the goodness of their hearts but out of necessity. A ruler from a religious minority oppressing the majority would work out about as well than as it would now.

That's what you think. Haha it's quite opposite.it was other way around. Since there was no official source of information or democracy, kings could whatever they want. , Sultanate and Mughal kings had some severe policies to convert people. Like POW would be let go if they convert. Businessmen would give less taxes if they convert. Officials would be promoted if they were Muslims. Leaving Islam was death which is why most people who converted for their life couldn't return back as if their jealous neighbour complained, you would be dead

Think of it, india population is 1.2 billion and out of 18 crores are Muslims. Similar are the numbers in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

So 18+ 18+ 16 / (120+18+16) = 32%

So about 1 of the 3 Hindu was converted. THAT IS HUGE!!! Imagine the kind of force that must have been used to do that. Subcontinental people have always been emotional and passionate about their caste and religion. Imagine how hard the situation must have been that they had to convert.

 

[CricketCartoons]

With all due respect Sushma Swaraj ji who has been a wonderful EAM, lets concentrate on Indians and let Pakistanis be.

The reason you take this position is that you don't want anyone to point out what happens in India. Given that India has lots of issues worth pointing out, I see yours is a clever stand.

 

[DW44]

That's what you think. Haha it's quite opposite.it was other way around. Since there was no official source of information or democracy, kings could whatever they want. , Sultanate and Mughal kings had some severe policies to convert people. Like POW would be let go if they convert. Businessmen would give less taxes if they convert. Officials would be promoted if they were Muslims. Leaving Islam was death which is why most people who converted for their life couldn't return back as if their jealous neighbour complained, you would be dead

Think of it, india population is 1.2 billion and out of 18 crores are Muslims. Similar are the numbers in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

So 18+ 18+ 16 / (120+18+16) = 32%

So about 1 of the 3 Hindu was converted. THAT IS HUGE!!! Imagine the kind of force that must have been used to do that. Subcontinental people have always been emotional and passionate about their caste and religion. Imagine how hard the situation must have been that they had to convert.

All conjecture backed by zero references. Do you have any reasonable references that confirm your theories? I don't, for instance, see your first paragraph to stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's what you think. Haha it's quite opposite.it was other way around. Since there was no official source of information or democracy, kings could whatever they want. , Sultanate and Mughal kings had some severe policies to convert people. Like POW would be let go if they convert. Businessmen would give less taxes if they convert. Officials would be promoted if they were Muslims. Leaving Islam was death which is why most people who converted for their life couldn't return back as if their jealous neighbour complained, you would be dead

Think of it, india population is 1.2 billion and out of 18 crores are Muslims. Similar are the numbers in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

So 18+ 18+ 16 / (120+18+16) = 32%

So about 1 of the 3 Hindu was converted. THAT IS HUGE!!! Imagine the kind of force that must have been used to do that. Subcontinental people have always been emotional and passionate about their caste and religion. Imagine how hard the situation must have been that they had to convert.

You said yourself that if they converted they would get tax relief, freedom from prisons, and promotions in their fields of profession. Yeah, sounds like a real hardship to convert.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

OK, so Burma is not actually sitting up and taking notice because the countries raising the Rohingya issues have not built their credibility. Now I see your excellent point.

Now your just blowing what I am saying out of proportion. Stop twisting my point.

FYI, a lot of credible countries (even though in this case there is no case of credibility there is a mass loss of human life) have come out and condemned whats happening there. Going by what you're saying they shouldn't have because it's not there duty/not there problem, right? I mean even a single citizen like you and me condemning the crisis shouldn't, right? It's not our job. Let the right people do it. Why are prominent figures such as celebrities coming out and condemning the Rohingya crises? It's not their job.

Just like they are, Shushma Swaraj could set an example and point fingers at both countries. Not just me, I'm sure a lot of people would agree. A nation moves forward when it look inwards and admits/fixes such issues, instead of just pointing at someone else and telling them "oh, look what they are doing..." when the SAME exact thing is happening with you.

 

[rahulrulezz]

huh? I was born Muslim, 400 years ago my great great great probably greater than great granpa was Hindu. And, everyone in sub-continent Muslims know that. Thanks for the history lesson.

Really. From what I have gathered from meeetng almost every Pakistani during my school, uni, workforce, cricket field and PP, it seems like they think that they are the defendants of Turks and Mongols and have nothing to do with locals. Neglecting that 99% of Pakistsnis are purely local Hindus.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Now your just blowing what I am saying out of proportion. Stop twisting my point.

FYI, a lot of credible countries (even though in this case there is no case of credibility there is a mass loss of human life) have come out and condemned whats happening there. Going by what you're saying they shouldn't have because it's not there duty/not there problem, right? I mean even a single citizen like you and me condemning the crisis shouldn't, right? It's not our job. Let the right people do it. Why are prominent figures such as celebrities coming out and condemning the Rohingya crises? It's not their job.

Just like they are, Shushma Swaraj could set an example and point fingers at both countries. Not just me, I'm sure a lot of people would agree. A nation moves forward when it look inwards and admits/fixes such issues, instead of just pointing at someone else and telling them "oh, look what they are doing..." when the SAME exact thing is happening with you.

Sorry, it is you who is twisting my point. My point is that anyone should be raising any issue without having to raise all issues as a balancing act. My point is that Pakistan, despite its poor treatment of minorities, has the right, and should raise the issue of any minorities, anywhere.

Your point is meant to silence criticism, by asking the critics to first get their own house sorted before they can criticize others.

My point is to promote criticism without imposing any conditions on it.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Sorry, it is you who is twisting my point. My point is that anyone should be raising any issue without having to raise all issues as a balancing act. My point is that Pakistan, despite its poor treatment of minorities, has the right, and should raise the issue of any minorities, anywhere.

Your point is meant to silence criticism, by asking the critics to first get their own house sorted before they can criticize others.

My point is to promote criticism without imposing any conditions on it.

Again that is well and good. We shall just keep pointing fingers and let nothing happen. Great. I'm not saying one should not criticize, but having constructive criticism of one's own state (or anything) is not a bad thing.

That's where I will leave my point.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Again that is well and good. We shall just keep pointing fingers and let nothing happen. Great. I'm not saying one should not criticize, but having constructive criticism of one's own state (or anything) is not a bad thing.

That's where I will leave my point.

You should have left your point long time ago. Why should Pakistan's treatment of its Sikhs be dependent on whether Shushma ji criticizes her own state or not? Will Pakistan be taking action if she criticized India as well, and will not take any action because she hasn't?

 

[akki]

If this is happening it is wrong, Islam does not teach force conversion.

On the other hand, Shushma ji needs to look within her own country as well and all the ** that is happening there. Force conversion, force marriage of Muslim women to Hindu men. How is that justice? Considering in Islam women are not allowed to marry outside the religion, can't even imagine what those women are going through.

What !!! seriously......In last 1000 years ,it has never happened forced conversions of muslim women in india. I can bet my every penny to it.
it has been always other way around. There are many cases pending in supreme court of india of forced conversions of hindus women. What are you smokimg man ??? people in india have love jihad phobia regarding forced conversions of hindu womens . One or 2 cases mihjt have happened other way around. but its not what you are saying.
Indian muslims never seek help from pakistan except kashmiris. Whereas pakistani sikhs and hindus have always asker for help and even applier for citizenship of india.
There are thousand shortcomings of india. i never defend. but what you are saying is absolutely rubbish .

 

[mmkextreme_1]

You should have left your point long time ago. Why should Pakistan's treatment of its Sikhs be dependent on whether Shushma ji criticizes her own state or not? Will Pakistan be taking action if she criticized India as well, and will not take any action because she hasn't?

Again, read above. I clearly mentioned that if this is happening in Pakistan, it is wrong and needs to addressed.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

What !!! seriously......In last 1000 years ,it has never happened forced conversions of muslim women in india. I can bet my every penny to it.
it has been always other way around. There are many cases pending in supreme court of india of forced conversions of hindus women. What are you smokimg man ??? people in india have love jihad phobia regarding forced conversions of hindu womens . One or 2 cases mihjt have happened other way around. but its not what you are saying.
Indian muslims never seek help from pakistan except kashmiris. Whereas pakistani sikhs and hindus have always asker for help and even applier for citizenship of india.
There are thousand shortcomings of india. i never defend. but what you are saying is absolutely rubbish .

Wow.

So going by what you're saying, two wrongs make a right? Please check your point and think about what rubbish you just posted.

FYI, it's not "one or 2 cases.." it has been happening for quite a while and under this government, not only is it happening more but now is happening out in the open.

 

[akki]

Wow.

So going by what you're saying, two wrongs make a right? Please check your point and think about what rubbish you just posted.

FYI, it's not "one or 2 cases.." it has been happening for quite a while and under this government, not only is it happening more but now is happening out in the open.

Dude i have heard some beef cases. its also like very few in percent . if we combine last 5 year data and out of 125 crore population.
but i have not heard regarding forced conversions of muslims women in india seriously.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Dude i have heard some beef cases. its also like very few in percent . if we combine last 5 year data and out of 125 crore population.
but i have not heard regarding forced conversions of muslims women in india seriously.

If you haven't heard of it, well then you must be leaving under a rock. What you mean combine the last 5 years worth of data out of 125 crore population. How is that even an acceptable excuse?

 

[Musakhel]

That's what you think. Haha it's quite opposite.it was other way around. Since there was no official source of information or democracy, kings could whatever they want. , Sultanate and Mughal kings had some severe policies to convert people. Like POW would be let go if they convert. Businessmen would give less taxes if they convert. Officials would be promoted if they were Muslims. Leaving Islam was death which is why most people who converted for their life couldn't return back as if their jealous neighbour complained, you would be dead

Think of it, india population is 1.2 billion and out of 18 crores are Muslims. Similar are the numbers in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

So 18+ 18+ 16 / (120+18+16) = 32%

So about 1 of the 3 Hindu was converted. THAT IS HUGE!!! Imagine the kind of force that must have been used to do that. Subcontinental people have always been emotional and passionate about their caste and religion. Imagine how hard the situation must have been that they had to convert.

Lol you can't use today's numbers to estimate what happened 200 years ago, muslim rule in India ended around 1799, after that it was pretty much all British rule, brits carried out cencus every few decades and you can see total muslim population was around 20%, not 33% or whatever it is today, the overall increase today is due to higher birth rates of Muslims post partition.

 

[Azzurri]

India should concentrate on their on issues

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1298023/hundreds-indian-muslim-girls-forced-converting-hinduism/

 

[Pakistanian]

She's really annoying.

 

[Rishikesh]

India should concentrate on their on issues

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1298023/hundreds-indian-muslim-girls-forced-converting-hinduism/

Masala headline we already discussed this topic on PP

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...n-UP-being-forced-into-converting-to-Hinduism

 

[www787]

Really. From what I have gathered from meeetng almost every Pakistani during my school, uni, workforce, cricket field and PP, it seems like they think that they are the defendants of Turks and Mongols and have nothing to do with locals. Neglecting that 99% of Pakistsnis are purely local Hindus.

How? Local Hindu? Practicing Muslims born into Muslim family and locally Hindu? What are you talking about? I don’t get it ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

She's really annoying.

Yea please ask pakistanis not to annoy him with visa requests.

 

[Saeed]

She should raise her issues with mass murderer modi.

 

[troodon]

Sikhs can always move to India. Pretty sure Swaraj and Modi Govt will be happy to do that.

 

[troodon]

Really. From what I have gathered from meeetng almost every Pakistani during my school, uni, workforce, cricket field and PP, it seems like they think that they are the defendants of Turks and Mongols and have nothing to do with locals. Neglecting that 99% of Pakistsnis are purely local Hindus.

No matter what Pakistanis claim, they all have Hindu ancestry. Islam is not native to subcontinent. There were no Muslims in India 1000 years ago. The few invaders and Their descendents cannot make up the population numbers of today.

To me , it’s a simple things. If you do not have Arab or Persian or Turkic look, you are most probably a local who converted for whatever reason.

 

[ExplicitAI]

As somebody who has a lot of Sikh friends in university I'm very ashamed to see something like this. If Pakistan is a country with the white and green flag then we must operate as such, the Sikhs represent the white part of the flag and must thrive in a safe environment in the country with no such things as forced conversions. May Allah help those people and do what is right. People should only convert due to their own consent.

 

[srh]

Just a reminder that forced conversion is not allowed in Islam. The Holy Quran mentioned this rule in 2:256 "There shall be no compulsion in the religion". I hope all muslims do know this rule and adhere to it.

 

[Saeed]

Just a reminder that forced conversion is not allowed in Islam. The Holy Quran mentioned this rule in 2:256 "There shall be no compulsion in the religion". I hope all muslims do know this rule and adhere to it.

Apparently this individual is an employee of KPK government so perhaps they should fire this guy and ban him for ever holding a position in any type of governmental organization.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Explain the hypocrisy. Her job is external affairs, not what goes inside the country. If Pakistan doesn't protect its sikhs, it is India's moral duty to raise concerns. Just like it is Pakistan's moral duty to raise concerns about Muslims the world over.

It's another country and one has to abide by the rules of that country.

 

[www787]

No matter what Pakistanis claim, they all have Hindu ancestry. Islam is not native to subcontinent. There were no Muslims in India 1000 years ago. The few invaders and Their descendents cannot make up the population numbers of today.

To me , it’s a simple things. If you do not have Arab or Persian or Turkic look, you are most probably a local who converted for whatever reason.

Majority of Pakistani understand that their ancestors were Hindu reverted to Islam and later Muslims demanded their own country.

 

[Pakistanian]

No matter what Pakistanis claim, they all have Hindu ancestry. Islam is not native to subcontinent. There were no Muslims in India 1000 years ago. The few invaders and Their descendents cannot make up the population numbers of today.

To me , it’s a simple things. If you do not have Arab or Persian or Turkic look, you are most probably a local who converted for whatever reason.

You do realize that religion is about faith not race, I don't know any Pakistani that doesn't say where south Asians however we are Muslims and do put our brothers in faith before a brother in blood and this something a white revert told an arab friend of mines when he was asked if he would pick a brother in faith over a brother in blood in a fight. That's something people not muslim can grasp especially in a caste and race obsessed region like south asia (india).

 

[Madplayer]

No matter what Pakistanis claim, they all have Hindu ancestry. Islam is not native to subcontinent. There were no Muslims in India 1000 years ago. The few invaders and Their descendents cannot make up the population numbers of today.

To me , it’s a simple things. If you do not have Arab or Persian or Turkic look, you are most probably a local who converted for whatever reason.

So? What does that matter?

The hindus of today also have non-hindu ancestory when some other form of primitive religion/beliefs/values were followed in India some 1000000 years ago (you know the time period i am referring to).

Beliefs keep changing. Doesn't mean jack.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So? What does that matter?

The hindus of today also have non-hindu ancestory when some other form of primitive religion/beliefs/values were followed in India some 1000000 years ago (you know the time period i am referring to).

Beliefs keep changing. Doesn't mean jack.

Can you please name that primitive religion?

 

[Madplayer]

Can you please name that primitive religion?

No i cannot. But if you believe that the first man who set foot on the land of India followed hinduism, then i have nothing to say to you.

 

[big_gamer007]

Shameful hopefully Pakistani authorities take notice and punish the people carrying out this non sense..

 

[cricketjoshila]

No i cannot. But if you believe that the first man who set foot on the land of India followed hinduism, then i have nothing to say to you.

Are we talking about a extinct civilization here?

Btw i can name the religion people were converted from by invaders.Can even name the places of worship that were destroyed.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

While this is appreciated, I don't understand what legal ground she has to take up this case.

We wouldn't want Pakistan to butt in on our Muslim issues.

 

[Madplayer]

Are we talking about a extinct civilization here?

Btw i can name the religion people were converted from by invaders.Can even name the places of worship that were destroyed.

See, the very response of yours is defensive rather than objective. Forget about documented facts, even the use of simple common sense would make it obvious to you that the first humans of India would not have been hindus. They might not even have believed in God in the first place or would have been simple tribals with no organised religion. The disintegeration of their thought process, whatever that might be, over a period of time paved way for hinduism. Whether it happened because of foreign influence or by indiginous developments is not even the question here. The only fact that i am concerned with is that hindus have non-hindu ancestory if you simply go back enough in time and use common sense and be think about it objectively.

If you believe that the first man in India followed organised Hinduism, then that is just being overly religious and its okay. You have a right to believe it.

 

[Savitar]

This is what exactly happening in India in the name of Ghar wapsi. Food for thought for someone. India is nothing but Hindu Pakistan.

 

[akki]

This is what exactly happening in India in the name of Ghar wapsi. Food for thought for someone. India is nothing but Hindu Pakistan.

Na you are overestimating hindus. we have aways been good for just being persecuted and rightly so. people cant even get lord ram temple in hindustan in ayodhya. Birth place of lord rama.
Imagine masjid not allowed in mecca. so that's not the case. relax. Hindus are themselves divided on castes anyway. And few hindus take religion seriously.

 

[troodon]

So? What does that matter?

The hindus of today also have non-hindu ancestory when some other form of primitive religion/beliefs/values were followed in India some 1000000 years ago (you know the time period i am referring to).

Beliefs keep changing. Doesn't mean jack.

Hinduism and praying to Gods and Goddesses (mostly Tribal) have existed in India for thousands of years.

Let me give you an example. Some tribal Goddesses in Andhra (Ankalamma, Nookalamma, Poleramma...) are very popular among rural folk and tribals. But these Goddesses are alien to UP wallah or Bengali or a Punjabi or a Kashmiri... But they are still Hindus.

What we call Sanatana Dharma is just a conglomeration of all these religious practices. Hence the God or Goddess to which someone in Tamilnadu or Kerala prays will not be understood by someone in Punjab or Bengal or UP.

Some Saints like Adi Shnkaracharya tried to unite all these beliefs and built some important Matths (temples) across the country to tie up all these practices with a common string. But still not many in North know about the religious practices in South.

Hinduism is not jsut one God and one book and one messenger. It is a mix of Vaishnavite, Shivite, Shakti and Tribal beliefs mixture. Even Buddha and Jain Guru Mahaveer is considered God by many Hindus. Hindus do not consider Buddha or Mahaveer as a heretic. They are considered Gods and incarnation of Vishnu and well respected and revered.

So yes. Who ever set foot in India has been practicing Hinduism for thousands of years. Hinduism is not an exclusive religion. It is an inclusive religion.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Woopss, In Hangu?????? That seems very strange to me.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hinduism and praying to Gods and Goddesses (mostly Tribal) have existed in India for thousands of years.

Let me give you an example. Some tribal Goddesses in Andhra (Ankalamma, Nookalamma, Poleramma...) are very popular among rural folk and tribals. But these Goddesses are alien to UP wallah or Bengali or a Punjabi or a Kashmiri... But they are still Hindus.

What we call Sanatana Dharma is just a conglomeration of all these religious practices. Hence the God or Goddess to which someone in Tamilnadu or Kerala prays will not be understood by someone in Punjab or Bengal or UP.

Some Saints like Adi Shnkaracharya tried to unite all these beliefs and built some important Matths (temples) across the country to tie up all these practices with a common string. But still not many in North know about the religious practices in South.

Hinduism is not jsut one God and one book and one messenger. It is a mix of Vaishnavite, Shivite, Shakti and Tribal beliefs mixture. Even Buddha and Jain Guru Mahaveer is considered God by many Hindus. Hindus do not consider Buddha or Mahaveer as a heretic. They are considered Gods and incarnation of Vishnu and well respected and revered.

So yes. Who ever set foot in India has been practicing Hinduism for thousands of years. Hinduism is not an exclusive religion. It is an inclusive religion.

You need to tell that to your compatriots who are making allegations of forced conversions to Islam in this thread. Since every religion is included in Hinduism, then how can you convert to something else?

 

[Madplayer]

Hinduism and praying to Gods and Goddesses (mostly Tribal) have existed in India for thousands of years.

Let me give you an example. Some tribal Goddesses in Andhra (Ankalamma, Nookalamma, Poleramma...) are very popular among rural folk and tribals. But these Goddesses are alien to UP wallah or Bengali or a Punjabi or a Kashmiri... But they are still Hindus.

What we call Sanatana Dharma is just a conglomeration of all these religious practices. Hence the God or Goddess to which someone in Tamilnadu or Kerala prays will not be understood by someone in Punjab or Bengal or UP.

Some Saints like Adi Shnkaracharya tried to unite all these beliefs and built some important Matths (temples) across the country to tie up all these practices with a common string. But still not many in North know about the religious practices in South.

Hinduism is not jsut one God and one book and one messenger. It is a mix of Vaishnavite, Shivite, Shakti and Tribal beliefs mixture. Even Buddha and Jain Guru Mahaveer is considered God by many Hindus. Hindus do not consider Buddha or Mahaveer as a heretic. They are considered Gods and incarnation of Vishnu and well respected and revered.

So yes. Who ever set foot in India has been practicing Hinduism for thousands of years. Hinduism is not an exclusive religion. It is an inclusive religion.

Quiet a convenient defence this. And not convincing enough to be frank. Its quiet convenient to say that worship of anything and everything under the sun is part of Hinduism. I know that the constitution of India has done a great thing by giving even tribals , who never associated themselves with hinduism, the title of hindu. Heck even jains and buddists are considered hindus in India.

The question is not of thousands of years. We all know that India has had hindus for thousands of years. The question is , is it possible that people of India were always hindus, since the time first human set foot on Indian land? I am afraid there is simply no way that can be possible because beliefs develop over time. From no belief to some belief to some other belief. Which brings us back to the first point itself. Hindus have non-hindu ancestory. Their beliefs are adopted/developed over time.

 

[Madplayer]

You need to tell that to your compatriots who are making allegations of forced conversions to Islam in this thread. Since every religion is included in Hinduism, then how can you convert to something else?

It is a very convenient defence like i mentioned in the other post and it certainly is just a manipulation. Muslims can also say that the first human was Adam and he was a believer in Allah and all humans have come from him including the Indians. Its a belief and its fine. We all have strong beliefs and they should be respected.

But if you use the standards of scientific rationality, then your common sense should tell you that all the religious people of the world have had ancestors (even if you have to go 10,000 or more years back. Heck even go back to start of humanity) who believed in different things or didnt even believe in religion at all.

The point i am trying to make here is that some Indians taunt muslims of south Asia to have hindu ancestory basically to insult them. Its absurd because man wasnt born with a belief and its the same for hindus of India. Or any other religion.

 

[HuzaifaE]

Forced conversions: Undeterred Sikhs converge on Peshawar

AMRITSAR: Undeterred by news reports of forced conversion of Sikhs to Islam in Pakistan, various religious bodies and gurdwaras began 'akhand path' on Saturday, the bhog of which will be performed on December 25, when a section of Sikhs will celebrate the birth anniversary of Guru Gobind Singh.

Chairman of Peshawar-based Khalsa Peace and Justice Foundation of Pakistan Radesh Singh Tony told TOI on Saturday that the 'akhand path' began at Gurdwara Bhai Joga Singh. "Sikhs from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sindh and even Afghanistan have begun converging at Peshawar. We will jointly celebrate the birthday anniversary of Guru Gobind Singh." He, however, expressed concern over media reports of forced conversion of Sikhs in Pakistan. "It's not so. Many of our Muslim friends often invite us to join Islam in a lighter vein, but never force or say such things seriously. These media reports have instead proved damaging for our relations with Muslims," he said.

Meanwhile, dedicated to the birth anniversary of Guru Gobind Singh, a cricket match was organized by Punjabi Sikh Sangat near Gurdwara Tambu Sahib, Nankana Sahib in Pakistan, on Saturday. A 10-over cricket match was held between Dashmesh XI and Kalghidhar XI. Dashmesh XI won the match. In Amritsar, the SGPC took out a nagar kirtan. Head granthi (priest) of the Golden Temple Giani Jagtar Singh performed ardas on the occasion.

On the other hand, a section of Sikhs are celebrating the birth anniversary of Guru Gobind Singh on January 5, according to Paul Singh Purewal-authored Nanakshahi calendar.

Meanwhile, chairman of Dharam Parchar Committee of the DSGMC Paramjit Singh Rana said that the DSGMC would submit a complaint with the jathedar of Akal Takht against SAD (Delhi) president Paramjit Singh Sarna for honouring the Pakistani high commissioner during 'Paschatap Hafta' (repentance week), which had hurt the religious sentiments of Sikhs.

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/amr...converge-on-peshawar/articleshow/62227768.cms

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Understandable.

She can still be vocal about it. I mean the hypocrisy in that statement is blatant.

Doesn't make her concern wrong though. Although I could see why that discomforts someone from the mentioned country as no one likes their mistakes to be pointed out.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

While this is appreciated, I don't understand what legal ground she has to take up this case.

We wouldn't want Pakistan to butt in on our Muslim issues.

But they are leading the charge for Kashmir freedom struggle, aren't they?

I think India has taken this offensive stance since Modi took over to counter their interference with Kashmir, Balochistan is another front India keeps bringing up when Pakistan take Kashmir issue too far.

 

[big_gamer007]

You need to tell that to your compatriots who are making allegations of forced conversions to Islam in this thread. Since every religion is included in Hinduism, then how can you convert to something else?

“FORCED” is wrong.. If someone doesn’t like doing something no one should force him to do that.. conversion means changing name, reading kalima etc someone doesn’t want to do any of that but is being forced to do this stuff makes it wrong..

 

[DW44]

But they are leading the charge for Kashmir freedom struggle, aren't they?

I think India has taken this offensive stance since Modi took over to counter their interference with Kashmir, Balochistan is another front India keeps bringing up when Pakistan take Kashmir issue too far.

Kashmir isn't really an internal matter though, it's a disputed territory, that is recognized as such by virtually every sovereign state and international body, and Pakistan is party to the dispute. The fact that our army has employed some despicable tactics there for political gains at home doesn't change the fact that it's still ultimately a disputed territory.

 

[blue_champion]

You need to tell that to your compatriots who are making allegations of forced conversions to Islam in this thread. Since every religion is included in Hinduism, then how can you convert to something else?

Lol I think you are trying to hard to make a “very smart point” here....forced conversions to Islam
Is not exactly a myth or a new phenomenon. I don’t want to start a research fest of proving my point with articles or documents because pretty sure you only want to believe what you want to,so I will leave it at that

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Doesn't make her concern wrong though. Although I could see why that discomforts someone from the mentioned country as no one likes their mistakes to be pointed out.

As mentioned above, if this indeed is going on in Pakistan, it needs to be taken care of.

The issue is happening in both countries and should discomfort anyone, but just pointing fingers like this is not going to solve the problem.

 

[CricketCartoons]

As mentioned above, if this indeed is going on in Pakistan, it needs to be taken care of.

The issue is happening in both countries and should discomfort anyone, but just pointing fingers like this is not going to solve the problem.

How and why should India matter in how Pakistan should take care of its minorities. Does Pakistan set it standards by how poorly or how well India treats its minorities? Pakistan should do what it best for its citizens, everything else is just noise.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

How and why should India matter in how Pakistan should take care of its minorities. Does Pakistan set it standards by how poorly or how well India treats its minorities? Pakistan should do what it best for its citizens, everything else is just noise.

This has nothing to do with standards of how each country takes care of its citizens. The problem is the forced conversion and the treatment of minorities. Such stuff is just not on.

Saying Pakistan and India should treat their minorities by setting each other as examples is not the proper way of going about it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This has nothing to do with standards of how each country takes care of its citizens. The problem is the forced conversion and the treatment of minorities. Such stuff is just not on.

Saying Pakistan and India should treat their minorities by setting each other as examples is not the proper way of going about it.

Of course, so why are you coupling India and its treatment of minorities when talking about Pakistan and its minorities? If India has forced conversions on a massive scale, why should that affect how Pakistan treats its own minority citizens?

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Of course, so why are you coupling India and its treatment of minorities when talking about Pakistan and its minorities? If India has forced conversions on a massive scale, why should that affect how Pakistan treats its own minority citizens?

Who says that it has an effect? Maybe it's just the mindset.

Look we can sit on this forum and debate this endlessly but the people involved in such atrocities have small minds and whatever happens in the opposite country sadly will cause them to do the same in theirs. Thus, prominent figures need to come out and oppose crap like this.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

sikh, being the warrior tribe, being used as a pawn by India to create tension in PK?

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Kashmir isn't really an internal matter though, it's a disputed territory, that is recognized as such by virtually every sovereign state and international body, and Pakistan is party to the dispute. The fact that our army has employed some despicable tactics there for political gains at home doesn't change the fact that it's still ultimately a disputed territory.

Maybe so.

But India has to counter that and smarter way than to deploy more troops in Kashmir is to make Pakistan's busy elsewhere.