The case for Shadab Khan replacing Yasir Shah outside Asia

[Junaids]

Why is a change required?
The World Test Championship (WTC) is about to start.

Pakistan don't play against the West Indies, but they do play 3 of their 6 qualifying series away in Australia, England and New Zealand.

That is important for two reasons. Firstly, as I am about to show, in those conditions Yasir Shah has a terrible record as a bowler while Shadab Khan has been decent with the ball and important with the bat.

Secondly, Pakistan simply MUST play 4 quick bowlers in their WTC qualifiers in those three countries. That then raises a question as to whether they can also pick a specialist spinner, or can only accommodate an all-rounder like Shadab Khan or even Imad Wasim.

We all recognise that Australian and South African conditions are interchangeable, and that England and Ireland are similarly identical to one another as venues.

Performances in the West Indies are irrelevant, as Pakistan doesn't play them in the WTC.

So let's compare the bowling - and batting - of Yasir Shah in the places where Pakistan must play:


1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
9 wickets in 6 Tests, average 95.11
81 runs in 6 Tests at an average of 9.00

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00

These numbers are absolutely shocking, damning even.

They show that in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa Yasir Shah is absolutely hopeless with both bat and ball.

Pakistan don't have to tour South Africa in the World Test Championship, but Yasir Shah's dismal record there this January - when he achieved a quarter as much in 2 Tests as Shadab Khan did in 1 Test - proves that he cannot be taken to Australia this November.

For the record, this is what Yasir Shah and Shadab Khan each achieved in South Africa in January 2019:

Yasir Shah in South Africa 2018-19:
4-0-24-0
7.4-1-20-1
21-1-79-0

4, 0, 5, 5

Shadab Khan in South Africa 2018-19
10-2-39-1
11.3-0-41-3

0, 52 not out.

To be fair, you can argue that at the two driest English grounds, Lords and The Oval, Yasir Shah took five wicket hauls in 2016. But can you carry such a non-performing bowler who can't bat when his performances outside Asia are not improving, but actually getting worse?

Shadab Khan is not a good enough spinner to be the main spinner in Asia. But outside Asia a spinner is essentially a specialist lower-middle order batsman who can bowl a few overs on Days 1-4 to rest the quicks.

The evidence is clear: Shadab Khan is a far more viable spinner where Pakistan have to play their World Test Championship qualifiers than Yasir Shah is.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

both shouldnt play,.... we need some1 who can actually turn the ball... likes of zafar gohar / umer khan

problem with putting confidence on batting of a num 7 is tht they wont deliver 9/10 times ... so wats the point

 

[Junaids]

both shouldnt play,.... we need some1 who can actually turn the ball... likes of zafar gohar / umer khan

problem with putting confidence on batting of a num 7 is tht they wont deliver 9/10 times ... so wats the point

I actually disagree.

Look at The Ashes, starting in 48 hours.

England have selected Moeen Ali as their spinner because their priority is to accommodate 4 or even 5 fast bowlers, so they want an extra batsman who can bowl some gentle spin.

In Asia of course pick proper spinners. But outside Asia your spinner is basically there for his batting and fielding.

Mitchell Santner is another example of this.

In the 2 Tests in Australia in November I'd actually pick Shadab Khan, but my second choice would be Imad Wasim to bat at Number 7. Then I can pick the four fast bowlers whose work will actually take the wickets.

 

[Abid Z]

I think this thread is more about what our attack should be comprised of rather than a comparison of the two spinners per se.

Shadab in his short career has shown he lacks the control and consistency to be a proper test bowling contender. He’s ok for shorter formats.

Yasir has control but often lacks penetration and guile. He showed in the uae that he can on occasion run through a side in an innings but rarely a full match and rarely without weight of runs as a cushion.

It remains to be seen how both have worked on their weaknesses as the first match is a long way away but there is absolutely no compulsion to take half a spinner when there are other options. Let’s not bring batting into this TESTS are for specialists.

 

[hadi123]

Shadab done better in Tests in South Africa. Yasir smiley Shah is useless outside of Asia. Agreed.

 

[Junaids]

I think this thread is more about what our attack should be comprised of rather than a comparison of the two spinners per se.

Shadab in his short career has shown he lacks the control and consistency to be a proper test bowling contender. He’s ok for shorter formats.

Yasir has control but often lacks penetration and guile. He showed in the uae that he can on occasion run through a side in an innings but rarely a full match and rarely without weight of runs as a cushion.

It remains to be seen how both have worked on their weaknesses as the first match is a long way away but there is absolutely no compulsion to take half a spinner when there are other options. Let’s not bring batting into this TESTS are for specialists.

With respect, I disagree with you on two points.

Firstly, we saw in Ireland, England and South Africa that Pakistan's "specialist" batsmen - and Sarfraz Ahmed - are rubbish and need to be bailed out by numbers 7, 8 and 9 again and again and again. So numbers 7, 8 and 9 need to be bowlers who can bat.

Secondly, outside Asia I think that 4 quick bowlers is a non-negotiable requirement.

So either you pick what you call "half a spinner" who can bat, or you pick no spinner whatsoever. But I think you need a spinner in case you bat first and bowl last (on a crumbling pitch).

Which is where Shadab Khan comes in for me. And in South Africa he looked like he is now a superior batsman to Azhar Ali, Fakhar Zaman, Sarfraz Ahmed and Imam-ul-Haq anyway.

 

[Mercurial]

It is a no brainer.

 

[Robert]

I actually disagree.

Look at The Ashes, starting in 48 hours.

England have selected Moeen Ali as their spinner because their priority is to accommodate 4 or even 5 fast bowlers, so they want an extra batsman who can bowl some gentle spin.

England will play three quicker bowler, plus Stokes who I think will bowl less and bat more this series, plus Moeen who is the best spinner available.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

I actually disagree.

Look at The Ashes, starting in 48 hours.

England have selected Moeen Ali as their spinner because their priority is to accommodate 4 or even 5 fast bowlers, so they want an extra batsman who can bowl some gentle spin.

In Asia of course pick proper spinners. But outside Asia your spinner is basically there for his batting and fielding.

Mitchell Santner is another example of this.

In the 2 Tests in Australia in November I'd actually pick Shadab Khan, but my second choice would be Imad Wasim to bat at Number 7. Then I can pick the four fast bowlers whose work will actually take the wickets.

its actually poor call to compare Satner to imad .. satnar is a much better spinner ( he can spin the ball) in tests ... imad is great for LOI only ...

Moeen ali is a wierd case... for his benifit, there isnt any spinner head n shoulders above him and then he can obviously bat ...

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Outside Asia our spinners should be Zafar Gohar.

In Asia spinners should be Yasir Shah and Zafar Gohar

 

[The Viper]

Shadab our of Asia for sure because his batting as been decent in tests and spinners don’t have a great time on Australian, NZ type wickets.

 

[Abid Z]

With respect, I disagree with you on two points.

Firstly, we saw in Ireland, England and South Africa that Pakistan's "specialist" batsmen - and Sarfraz Ahmed - are rubbish and need to be bailed out by numbers 7, 8 and 9 again and again and again. So numbers 7, 8 and 9 need to be bowlers who can bat.

Secondly, outside Asia I think that 4 quick bowlers is a non-negotiable requirement.

So either you pick what you call "half a spinner" who can bat, or you pick no spinner whatsoever. But I think you need a spinner in case you bat first and bowl last (on a crumbling pitch).

Which is where Shadab Khan comes in for me. And in South Africa he looked like he is now a superior batsman to Azhar Ali, Fakhar Zaman, Sarfraz Ahmed and Imam-ul-Haq anyway.

I don’t think we are disagreeing that much actually. Quite simply for outside Asia you pick your best 4 bowlers as a first consideration then compare the qualities and attributes of each player in a particular ground. So your thread about comparing yasir and shadab is secondary to the prime question..”which bowling attack will get us 20 wickets”..

What you are asking is “which batting lineup gives us a score over 300” most of the time. If Pakistan top 5 is failing regularly this is the weakness which needs to be addressed not...”let’s strengthen the batting by weakening the bowling”.

Actually both shadab and yasir are pretty poor test players.

 

[Markhor]

Yasir is a passenger outside Asia but Shadab is a pseudo cricketer who was fast tracked into Test cricket on the basis of a few performances in pyjama leagues. He is not the answer unless he goes proves himself in 4 day cricket.

 

[Abid Z]

Yasir is a passenger outside Asia but Shadab is a pseudo cricketer who was fast tracked into Test cricket on the basis of a few performances in pyjama leagues. He is not the answer unless he goes proves himself in 4 day cricket.

Couldn’t agree more. Yasir is a peculiar case (even in Asia) has an innings where he gets a bag full of wickets then struggles to break through in every following innings. Doesn’t seem to bowl anything challenging for the batsman. I don’t mean I wanna see him bowling googlies, flippers zooters or hooters every over but just enough to not constantly dart it and work on drift, dip guile and the odd googly or straighter one to deceive. Now I know he’s no shane Warne but almost 8 years in international cricket it would be great to see him set up batsmen more often than he does. Unfortunately his one good innings always gives the illusion that he’s our main wicket taker which is misleading.

Shadab is just his polar opposite (that’s not a compliment) bowls nothing but variation after variation without actually settling into a rhythm.

Really miss Mushy the coach.

 

[Hasan123]

Even if Shadab performed with the bat , I think his current bowling would not be good enough. Junaids comes up with stupid figures.

You really think Shadab can bowl tight spells against elite batters like Smith and Warner? )

Not saying Shadab isn't talented but I'll pick a specialist spinner.

The number one test team plays specialist spinners and look where that gets them. Ashwin and Jadeja make the team on bowling merit first. What they do with the bat is a actually bonus. Shadab would not even be considered by Junaids if it wasn't for his batting lol.

Australia and South Africa also select specialist spinners. A 150 years of test cricket has shown selecting specialist spinners is the way to go , but because Moen Ali scores in England at number 8 . Junaids thinks it's the way to go. )

 

[Mamoon]

Yasir should never play a Test outside Asia again; Shadab should never play for Pakistan again.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

Shadab should play first class cricket, take a bagful of wickets and press for test selection

 

[Junaids]

For the oldies, let's put it like this.

Outside Asia:

Yasir Shah is like a poor man's Abdul Qadir.

Shadab Khan is like a poor man's Mushtaq Mohammad.

I wouldn't want Mushtaq Mohammad as my sole spinner in Asia, of course not. But for Tests in SENA, he would be perfectly sufficient as a bowler, and his runs would be precious as a seventh batsman.

 

[Kroll]

Yasir Shah is a match winner - he's going to help the other team win, please don't play him in the Test. Shadab isn't good enough for his bowling alone.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Shadab is a huge upgrade over Yasir outside Asia. But the spinner outside Asia should be Zafar Gohar.

For the current series Iftikhar should play the role of the sole spinner as he will bowl less expensive than Yasir, and I don't see Yasir taking any wickets. Iftikhar has good domestic stats with the ball and can be a good number 6 batsman. This way we can play 4 fast bowlers.

 

[Boiz Played Well]

Yasir Shah is a match winner - he's going to help the other team win, please don't play him in the Test. Shadab isn't good enough for his bowling alone.

Yasir has been a match winner no doubt. But his Australian and South African records are atrocious. Hopefully he does better when gets this chance.

 

[Kroll]

Yasir has been a match winner no doubt. But his Australian and South African records are atrocious. Hopefully he does better when gets this chance.

Shah's going to get smashed if he plays in Australia, everyone's agreed the same except for the saviour Misbah.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Shadab will be smashed all over the park by Australian batsmen. He will be as bad as Yasir.

Is he really good enough as a batsman that his horrendous bowling can be ignored? At this point, the safer approach will be to go with 4 specialist fast bowlers and let Iftikhar, Haris, and Azhar take care of spin bowling overs.

 

[Hasan123]

Junaids keeps on going on about Shadabs performances in South Africa like they changed the course of the game. No one in PP other than you hypes them which shows they aren’t as great as you think.

 

[Pete Rose]

I would play Shadab ahead of Yasir, but it seems that Yasir's greater > 40 avg in England, South Africa, and Australia is not a big enough sample.

In any case in these conditions, when play well, at best we give the opposition about 150 odd to chase last at the beginning of day 4. Not much yasir can do with that.

 

[Saj]

Shadab and Test cricket should not be mentioned in the same sentence at the moment.

He has a lot of work to do on his bowling as its really gone downhill of late.

 

[Hyperion66]

Shadab couldn't possibly do worse than Yasir in Australia even if he wants to and already 10 times better bat than Yasir. He shouldn't be judged based on his LOI performances while being evaluated for the test matches. Did pretty decent with the limited chances he got.

 

[Boiz Played Well]

Shadab couldn't possibly do worse than Yasir in Australia even if he wants to and already 10 times better bat than Yasir. He shouldn't be judged based on his LOI performances while being evaluated for the test matches. Did pretty decent with the limited chances he got.

From what I've read and heard is that he's trying to work on his action for a while to minimize injuries and still be effective. I feel all his changeover practice is mostly happening during the season. He should take some time off (preferably now), seek help or do whatever needs to be done to get on top of it.

Otherwise he'll keep "working on it" during important games for Pakistan and end up being less effective in both limited overs and tests.

 

[shariqnoor]

Can somebody bump up the thread or posts where Ashwin was heavily criticised as being a lesser bowler than Yasir because of his away record. That was funny.

 

[Boiz Played Well]

Can somebody bump up the thread or posts where Ashwin was heavily criticised as being a lesser bowler than Yasir because of his away record. That was funny.

They're both quite poor in the same sort of places i.e. Australia and South Africa primarily. Should invest in after-school tuitions together or something.

 

[Mercurial]

Shadab should have been preferred, but now that Yasir has been selected, I am backing him on this tour! Yasir will be the man of the series.

 

[Junaids]

Why is a change required?
The World Test Championship (WTC) is about to start.

Pakistan don't play against the West Indies, but they do play 3 of their 6 qualifying series away in Australia, England and New Zealand.

That is important for two reasons. Firstly, as I am about to show, in those conditions Yasir Shah has a terrible record as a bowler while Shadab Khan has been decent with the ball and important with the bat.

Secondly, Pakistan simply MUST play 4 quick bowlers in their WTC qualifiers in those three countries. That then raises a question as to whether they can also pick a specialist spinner, or can only accommodate an all-rounder like Shadab Khan or even Imad Wasim.

We all recognise that Australian and South African conditions are interchangeable, and that England and Ireland are similarly identical to one another as venues.

Performances in the West Indies are irrelevant, as Pakistan doesn't play them in the WTC.

So let's compare the bowling - and batting - of Yasir Shah in the places where Pakistan must play:


1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
9 wickets in 6 Tests, average 95.11
81 runs in 6 Tests at an average of 9.00

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00

These numbers are absolutely shocking, damning even.

They show that in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa Yasir Shah is absolutely hopeless with both bat and ball.

Pakistan don't have to tour South Africa in the World Test Championship, but Yasir Shah's dismal record there this January - when he achieved a quarter as much in 2 Tests as Shadab Khan did in 1 Test - proves that he cannot be taken to Australia this November.

For the record, this is what Yasir Shah and Shadab Khan each achieved in South Africa in January 2019:

Yasir Shah in South Africa 2018-19:
4-0-24-0
7.4-1-20-1
21-1-79-0

4, 0, 5, 5

Shadab Khan in South Africa 2018-19
10-2-39-1
11.3-0-41-3

0, 52 not out.

To be fair, you can argue that at the two driest English grounds, Lords and The Oval, Yasir Shah took five wicket hauls in 2016. But can you carry such a non-performing bowler who can't bat when his performances outside Asia are not improving, but actually getting worse?

Shadab Khan is not a good enough spinner to be the main spinner in Asia. But outside Asia a spinner is essentially a specialist lower-middle order batsman who can bowl a few overs on Days 1-4 to rest the quicks.

The evidence is clear: Shadab Khan is a far more viable spinner where Pakistan have to play their World Test Championship qualifiers than Yasir Shah is.

My congratulations to Misbah and Yasir Shah.

Yasir came in to the 2019-20 Brisbane Test with an average of 95.11 in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

And he has taken 1-93 with a strike rate of 156.

So absolutely nothing has changed.

And Misbah has picked the wrong leg-spinner.

 

[BreadPakoda]

My congratulations to Misbah and Yasir Shah.

Yasir came in to the 2019-20 Brisbane Test with an average of 95.11 in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

And he has taken 1-93 with a strike rate of 156.

So absolutely nothing has changed.

And Misbah has picked the wrong leg-spinner.

But Yasir made useful runs and built a crucial partnership with Shafiq.

 

[Junaids]

But Yasir made useful runs and built a crucial partnership with Shafiq.

Did he score more runs than Shadab would?

 

[Mamoon]

Did he score more runs than Shadab would?

Shadab wouldn’t have lasted against the new ball either, and he would probably have been more expensive with the ball.

Shadab is a poor cricketer and Yasir is a poor spinner outside Asia. Pakistan has too many problems for people to fixate over one selection.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Did he score more runs than Shadab would?

I believe yes.

Have you seen Shadab bat recently?

 

[Junaids]

Shadab wouldn’t have lasted against the new ball either, and he would probably have been more expensive with the ball.

Shadab is a poor cricketer and Yasir is a poor spinner outside Asia. Pakistan has too many problems for people to fixate over one selection.

Shadab Khan has played 4 Tests outside Asia.

In those four Tests:

Shadab got a 50 in all four Tests.

Azhar hit a 50 in one Test out of four.

Shafiq hit a 50 in three Tests out of four.

Haris hit a 50 in zero of three Tests.

 

[Junaids]

I believe yes.

Have you seen Shadab bat recently?

Have you seen him bat against a red ball recently? No, I thought not.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Have you seen him bat against a red ball recently? No, I thought not.

I have seen enough of Shadab to realize he dances better than batting or bowling.

 

[Junaids]

I have seen enough of Shadab to realize he dances better than batting or bowling.

Read my post above.

In Shadab’s four Tests outside Asia:

Haris hit a fifty in 0 Tests.
Azhar hit a fifty in 1 Test.
Shafiq hit a fifty in 3 Tests.
Shadab hit a fifty in all 4 Tests.

 

[shortbread]

Issue with Shadab in tests is that he's not really a strike bowler. He is fit therefore can bowl long spells and being accurate will control runs. This is useful if the pacers pick up wickets and the spinner can tie up one end.

If the fast bowlers dont take wickets then Shadab's bowling is pointless.

If Yasir Shah's spell today read 28-1-101-1, Shadab would be more or less like 32-5-85-0!
Pakistan would go wicketless but control the run flow some what. It's like being stuck between devil and the sea.

 

[Junaids]

Issue with Shadab in tests is that he's not really a strike bowler. He is fit therefore can bowl long spells and being accurate will control runs. This is useful if the pacers pick up wickets and the spinner can tie up one end.

If the fast bowlers dont take wickets then Shadab's bowling is pointless.

If Yasir Shah's spell today read 28-1-101-1, Shadab would be more or less like 32-5-85-0!
Pakistan would go wicketless but control the run flow some what. It's like being stuck between devil and the sea.

You play Shadab as half a bowler at 7 with a quick bowling all-rounder at 8.

I reckon so far the Mickey Arthur model would have given you:

Shadab 55 (instead of Iftikhar)
Faheem 25

Shadab 12-2-30-0
Faheem 15-3-40-1.

Also, in Australia and South Africa a leg-spinner’s only tool on days 1-4 is bounce.

Yasir is rubbish in terms of bounce because he bowls round-arm, whereas Shadab has a higher arm and gets more bounce and has a better googly.

Shadab is actually a far better bowler than Yasir on pitches with high but consistent bounce.

 

[shortbread]

At this rate may as well go for the more defensive bowler. Australia are unlikely to need a second innings on a day 4-5 pitch, which makes the likes of Yasir Shah redundant.

Still 3 days left in the game. If they get one batsman and Smith out cheaply tomorrow, who knows?!

 

[Usman]

At this rate may as well go for the more defensive bowler. Australia are unlikely to need a second innings on a day 4-5 pitch, which makes the likes of Yasir Shah redundant.

Still 3 days left in the game. If they get one batsman and Smith out cheaply tomorrow, who knows?!

Yes who knows, if they get Smith and another batsman out, we might lose by 200 runs rather than 400 runs!

Shambolic performance from Yasir yet again. But then I don't blame him - he has been shambolic for years but keeps getting selected due to performances at the start of his career. He's even been given a Cat A contract and is one of only 3 players in that bracket

The fault lies entirely at the door of Misbah and Inzi, Mickey and Sarfraz before him. They all kept pinning their hopes in a no-hoper.

Whilst I agree Shadab would have been a better option, I think the issue is bigger than this. Pak lives with a mentality that a leggie is the only type of spinner who can get you wickets in tests. Wrong! Look at Ashwin, Lyon and even Moeen. Pak should abandon the obsession with leggies and simply pick the best spinner available.

Off spin is an easier art to master than leg spin. This means that there are more offies in domestic cricket than leggies, giving you a bigger pool to choose from, which ultimately will lead to a better quality spinner being selected in your side.

The Yasir show was good whilst it lasted, but it ended long ago and our constant attempts to revive it are just desperate and sad.

 

[Captain caveman]

Seriously, this would make no difference at all, people clutching at straws.

We need 6 proper batsman and 3 fast bowlers who are 6foot 4 inches plus and can swing the ball both ways and bowl bouncers.

 

[Hasan123]

You play Shadab as half a bowler at 7 with a quick bowling all-rounder at 8.

I reckon so far the Mickey Arthur model would have given you:

Shadab 55 (instead of Iftikhar)
Faheem 25

Shadab 12-2-30-0
Faheem 15-3-40-1.

Also, in Australia and South Africa a leg-spinner’s only tool on days 1-4 is bounce.

Yasir is rubbish in terms of bounce because he bowls round-arm, whereas Shadab has a higher arm and gets more bounce and has a better googly.

Shadab is actually a far better bowler than Yasir on pitches with high but consistent bounce.

Faheem has ducks against rubbish teams but he will score 25 against Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, and Lyon. )

Never seen so much faith in average players.

 

[Hasan123]

If you actually look at Shadab performances in these games Junaids never shuts up about. The 50 against England in the 2nd test came when were 8 down for 80 . So the game was over lol. His 47 against South Africa in the 3rd test was when the game was literally over. He goes at 3 runs an over in most of his bowling performances. No matter how Junaids will spin it , it's rubbish for a spinner to go at 3 an over. Most of these games are low scoring as well. Him going at 3 and over in say 15 overs cancels out his 50s because the other team has those runs back.

The point is selecting bits and pieces all rounders gets you nowhere.

India select specialists and they are number 1 in the world. Ashwin and Jadeja make the team on bowling merit. They improved their batting once they were cemented in the team with their bowling. Their batting is literally a bonus.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]
Jadeja is precisely what Shadab is: a bits and pieces all-rounder who is only selectable in certain countries.

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]
Jadeja is precisely what Shadab is: a bits and pieces all-rounder who is only selectable in certain countries.

Jadeja makes the Indian team on bowling merit alone. His fielding and batting are bonuses lol. Jadeja walks into the Pakistan team as a specialist spinner. Shadab would not even get to an Indian B side.

Don't ever compare them. Shadab will never be as good as Jadeja.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Shadab needs to play a list cricket instead of being a globetrotter

I can’t remember seeing yasir in any foreign leagues
And I can’t think of any league where Shadab not played!

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]
Jadeja is precisely what Shadab is: a bits and pieces all-rounder who is only selectable in certain countries.

No. Jadeja is ten times the spinner Shadab ever will be. He is also a better batsman and probably the greatest Asian fielder of all time.

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION]
Jadeja is precisely what Shadab is: a bits and pieces all-rounder who is only selectable in certain countries.

He helped India win the Lords test in 2013 and used to dominate in India before our pacers took over, lol@ Shadab same as Jadeja, this shows how biased you are.

 

[BaankeJi]

Yasir performed well in this test. 4 wickets and 80 odd runs with the bat.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]

This Test has disproved your theory which has never been backed by facts.

Yasir scored 68 runs in this Test match at an average of 34. However, those runs did not make any difference because he conceded over 200 runs at an economy rate of 4+.

You and I both know that Shadab wouldn’t have scored more than 70 runs over the two innings against this bowling attack. Even if you disagree, what difference would have the extra 20-30 runs made when he suffered an innings defeat?

The bottom-line is that the belief that you to pick a spinner for his batting ability outside Asia is completely wrong. You pick a spinner on his ability to provide control when he is not able to take wickets.

Last year in Australia, Ashwin had an economy rate of 1.71 and and Jadeja had an economy rate of 2.24 and that is the difference. Moreover, Ashwin scored half as many runs as Yasir scored and Jadeja scored roughly the same number of runs as Yasir.

Pakistan needs to find spinners who won’t get milked like spring goats in Australia and maintain an economy rate of below 3. Neither Yasir nor Shadab, who has inferior control, provide that option. 8/10 times, both of these spinners will have an economy rate of 4+ in Australia.

Pakistan needs to take the finger-spinner route in Australia regardless of their batting capability.

 

[emranabbas]

He helped India win the Lords test in 2013 and used to dominate in India before our pacers took over, lol@ Shadab same as Jadeja, this shows how biased you are.

He's talking about the role not skills and talent please read what he's trying to say

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
I disagree.

I see Shadab as a spinning all-rounder in place of Iftikhar. However many rubs Yasir scores, triple it.

I have said til I’m blue in the face that The Gabba is a wicket all about bounce, and 80% of the overs need to be bowled by guys 6’2 and above.

This was a ground to have an attack of Shaheen, Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul, backed by two all-rounders.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
I disagree.

I see Shadab as a spinning all-rounder in place of Iftikhar. However many rubs Yasir scores, triple it.

I have said til I’m blue in the face that The Gabba is a wicket all about bounce, and 80% of the overs need to be bowled by guys 6’2 and above.

This was a ground to have an attack of Shaheen, Ehsan Adil and Sameen Gul, backed by two all-rounders.

68*3 = 204

So Shadab “Steve Smith” Khan would have 204 in 2 innings against an attack of Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon?

 

[Mercurial]

I would select Bhatti in place of Yasir in the next Test. Bhatti can provide much better control if not wickets.

 

[Junaids]

68*3 = 204

So Shadab “Steve Smith” Khan would have 204 in 2 innings against an attack of Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon?

He made a fifty at The Wanderers against Steyn and Philander in his last Test.

And he has 4 fifties in 4 Tests outside Asia.

I think Shadab against the old ball would have done very well at The Gabba. He is a much better batsman in SENA conditions than Haris or Iftikhar or the aged version of Azhar Ali.

 

[Mamoon]

He made a fifty at The Wanderers against Steyn and Philander in his last Test.

And he has 4 fifties in 4 Tests outside Asia.

I think Shadab against the old ball would have done very well at The Gabba. He is a much better batsman in SENA conditions than Haris or Iftikhar or the aged version of Azhar Ali.

Again - Yasir scored 70 runs in two innings, and he did very well against the old ball as well. His runs tally is similar to what you expect Shadab to provide outside Asia. How exactly did it help Pakistan?

It brings me back to my original point. Pakistan needs spinners who can bowl economical spells in Australia like Ashwin and Jadeja.

Bits and pieces players will never work in Test cricket. If you don’t have genuine all-rounders like Stokes and Shakib, don’t force once.

 

[Junaids]

Again - Yasir scored 70 runs in two innings, and he did very well against the old ball as well. His runs tally is similar to what you expect Shadab to provide outside Asia. How exactly did it help Pakistan?

It brings me back to my original point. Pakistan needs spinners who can bowl economical spells in Australia like Ashwin and Jadeja.

Bits and pieces players will never work in Test cricket. If you don’t have genuine all-rounders like Stokes and Shakib, don’t force once.

Because Shadab is a far better batsman than Yasir. He would score far more runs.

Plus Shadab is better bowling on bouncy wickets due to his overspin, viz Johannesburg.

I don’t agree about bits and pieces players. If you don’t have good batting, runs from 7, 8 and 9 are crucial.

Pakistan’s third and fourth bowlers aren’t great anyway. I’d rather have a fourth and fifth bowler who can give me lower order runs.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Shadab Khan's record excluding his debut Test:

Runs and wickets in the last Test he played. Runs in England, South Africa.

 

[Napa]

He helped India win the Lords test in 2013 and used to dominate in India before our pacers took over, lol@ Shadab same as Jadeja, this shows how biased you are.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] lives in a fact-free world, in which "Jadeja is precisely what Shadab is: a bits and pieces all-rounder". When confronted with facts from the real world he disappears.

In the real world, Ravindra "Bits and Pieces" Jadeja has been ranked the #1 bowler in Tests, who has taken 211 wickets at an average of 24.64 and a S/R of 61.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/234675.html

Meanwhile Shadab "Just Like Jadeja" Khan has taken 12 wickets at an average of 38.83 and a S/R of 74.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/922943.html

 

[unemployedgm]

Yasir Shah is an overrated spinner. I think we should seriously consider reviewing the policy of focusing on leg spinners.

 

[Pete Rose]

Shadab is a better spinner than Yasir in overseas conditions because he can actually spin the ball sideways. Only way Yasir will win abroad is he has a big total to defend to work with.
There can be debate and fulmination on why we have to chose between shadab and Yasir, why not someone else from domestic.
BUT shadab spins it more than Yasir and has taken wickets in places where Yasir has struggled so I would chose him.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
You and I both know that, like Shadab, Jadeja is an all-rounder who is a very useful spinner.

In Asia Jadeja has 170 wickets at an average of 21.65.

But outside Asia Jadeja has just 41 wickets at an average of 37.05.

So Jadeja’s bowling record outside Asia is basically identical to Shadab’s.

 

[Napa]

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
You and I both know that, like Shadab, Jadeja is an all-rounder who is a very useful spinner.

In Asia Jadeja has 170 wickets at an average of 21.65.

But outside Asia Jadeja has just 41 wickets at an average of 37.05.

<b>So Jadeja’s bowling record outside Asia is basically identical to Shadab’s.</b>

Sorry, no.

Removing the minnow Ireland (who Jadeja has never played against) and looking at only England, WI and SA where both have played, Jadeja's average is 34.25 with an economy rate of 2.79, while Shadab's is 46.50 with an economy rate of 3.59.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

As [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] noted, an economy rate is very important for a spinner in Tests. Spinners who leak runs like Shadab make it harder for the remaining bowlers.

Jadeja is an accomplished bowler who has been ranked #1 in the world in Test cricket. There is no comparison to Shadab who averages 46.50 against non-minnows.

 

[MMHS]

Because Shadab is a far better batsman than Yasir. He would score far more runs.

Plus Shadab is better bowling on bouncy wickets due to his overspin, viz Johannesburg.

I don’t agree about bits and pieces players. If you don’t have good batting, runs from 7, 8 and 9 are crucial.

Pakistan’s third and fourth bowlers aren’t great anyway. I’d rather have a fourth and fifth bowler who can give me lower order runs.

A small piece of stats - this year QeA trophy, Shadab averages 6.67 (3 innings, I agree) with bat ..... and in Australia in T20s (I know it’s white ball cricket without slip), Shadab averages 1.00, again 3 innings and with bat......

Yasir Shah averages 30+ with bat this season in QeA (8 innings), for 150+ runs..,,,

 

[Junaids]

Why is a change required?
The World Test Championship (WTC) is about to start.

Pakistan don't play against the West Indies, but they do play 3 of their 6 qualifying series away in Australia, England and New Zealand.

That is important for two reasons. Firstly, as I am about to show, in those conditions Yasir Shah has a terrible record as a bowler while Shadab Khan has been decent with the ball and important with the bat.

Secondly, Pakistan simply MUST play 4 quick bowlers in their WTC qualifiers in those three countries. That then raises a question as to whether they can also pick a specialist spinner, or can only accommodate an all-rounder like Shadab Khan or even Imad Wasim.

We all recognise that Australian and South African conditions are interchangeable, and that England and Ireland are similarly identical to one another as venues.

Performances in the West Indies are irrelevant, as Pakistan doesn't play them in the WTC.

So let's compare the bowling - and batting - of Yasir Shah in the places where Pakistan must play:


1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
9 wickets in 6 Tests, average 95.11
81 runs in 6 Tests at an average of 9.00

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00

These numbers are absolutely shocking, damning even.

They show that in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa Yasir Shah is absolutely hopeless with both bat and ball.

Pakistan don't have to tour South Africa in the World Test Championship, but Yasir Shah's dismal record there this January - when he achieved a quarter as much in 2 Tests as Shadab Khan did in 1 Test - proves that he cannot be taken to Australia this November.

For the record, this is what Yasir Shah and Shadab Khan each achieved in South Africa in January 2019:

Yasir Shah in South Africa 2018-19:
4-0-24-0
7.4-1-20-1
21-1-79-0

4, 0, 5, 5

Shadab Khan in South Africa 2018-19
10-2-39-1
11.3-0-41-3

0, 52 not out.

To be fair, you can argue that at the two driest English grounds, Lords and The Oval, Yasir Shah took five wicket hauls in 2016. But can you carry such a non-performing bowler who can't bat when his performances outside Asia are not improving, but actually getting worse?

Shadab Khan is not a good enough spinner to be the main spinner in Asia. But outside Asia a spinner is essentially a specialist lower-middle order batsman who can bowl a few overs on Days 1-4 to rest the quicks.

The evidence is clear: Shadab Khan is a far more viable spinner where Pakistan have to play their World Test Championship qualifiers than Yasir Shah is.

Yasir Shah has now “enhanced” his Test record in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to:

8 Tests
13 wickets
Average 96.77 runs per wicket

 

[aloo paratha]

Both Misbah and Mickey have spinner problems.

Mickey knew he couldn't play Yasir outside Asia so he played All rounders instead, but kept playing only 1 spinner and then later selecting an AR as a spinner in the UAE.

Misbah knows the importance of spinners in Asia, but he also decides to play Yasir as the lone spinner outside Asia.

I wish the team management could understand this. Specialist spinners for Asia, spinners who can keep it tight and offer something with the bad for outside Asia, so players such as Shadab or Zafar Gohar.

 

[Mamoon]

Shadab is garbage everywhere in every format.

Yasir is still useful in Asian Tests.

 

[Napa]

A small piece of stats - this year QeA trophy, Shadab averages 6.67 (3 innings, I agree) with bat ..... and in Australia in T20s (I know it’s white ball cricket without slip), Shadab averages 1.00, again 3 innings and with bat......

Yasir Shah averages 30+ with bat this season in QeA (8 innings), for 150+ runs..,,,

Seems like you were right that Yasir's batting is not to be underestimated.

 

[MenInG]

Batting makes Yasir Shah an attractive prospect. But that being the case, Shadab could be the specialist spinner for Pakistan and Yasir an all-rounder?

 

[hadi123]

Batting makes Yasir Shah an attractive prospect. But that being the case, Shadab could be the specialist spinner for Pakistan and Yasir an all-rounder?

Worst idea I've ever heard. And this makes no sense either. First of all, the role of both of these is as a bowler. Any runs they score will be a bonus. And when it comes to bowling they are both leg spinners. Never have I cringed at a post so much.