The decline of Pakistan's pace-bowlers

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The decline of Pakistan's pace-bowlers <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/jFkle7viZE">pic.twitter.com/jFkle7viZE</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1357240787533238272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 4, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mobashir]

That's a shame.
The closest from the players still not retired is Abbas and he is not in the squad anymore.
The two playing are at 30-40 test wickets so we aren't reaching the mark in the next 5 years.

 

[Rayyman]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Pakistan bowling attack quality may have declined but no way we are average bowling attack. If SA was such a quality fast bowling attack, they should have blown us away in the last match. Pitches play a key role in making of a good fast bowler. SA enjoy home conditions but sadly for Pakistan we haven’t played home cricket for almost 12 years I believe.

Shaheen, Hasnain, Rauf, musa, naseem, these bowlers need experience which will come in time.

If we can find a good bowling coach, in 2 years time we can be a v good team.

 

[Ozeirk]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

Doctored balls you say?
Were the balls manufactured differently for Pakistan?

 

[Firebat]

Wasim Akram making the point on commentary earlier that when you look at how dead and slow these Pakistani pitches are, it's not hard to see why we don't produce high quality fast bowlers.

 

[Markhor]

Pakistan bowling attack quality may have declined but no way we are average bowling attack.

Since Sep 2019, only Zimbabwe have a worse Test bowling average than Pakistan. Five Tests in that time are in bowler friendly England and New Zealand. So we are infact worse than average.

Shaheen, Hasnain, Rauf, musa, naseem, these bowlers need experience which will come in time.

If we can find a good bowling coach, in 2 years time we can be a v good team.

Musa will not be good enough for Test cricket no matter how much experience he gains.

Hasnain and Rauf should start playing FC matches if they have any aspirations of playing Tests. Shaheen if anything has regressed in Tests with more experience.

I agree we need to upgrade on the bowling coach though, Waqar is absolutely shameless in showing zero self-awareness or willingness to learn from past failed tenures.

 

[Markhor]

Wasim Akram making the point on commentary earlier that when you look at how dead and slow these Pakistani pitches are, it's not hard to see why we don't produce high quality fast bowlers.

We've always produced dead, slow pitches in Pakistan bar the odd veneue, yet still produced fast bowlers like Fazal, Imran, Sarfraz, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Asif and others.

I agree more pace and bounce must be injected into some of these surfaces though.

 

[Indiafan]

Pakistan bowling attack quality may have declined but no way we are average bowling attack. If SA was such a quality fast bowling attack, they should have blown us away in the last match. Pitches play a key role in making of a good fast bowler. SA enjoy home conditions but sadly for Pakistan we haven’t played home cricket for almost 12 years I believe.

Shaheen, Hasnain, Rauf, musa, naseem, these bowlers need experience which will come in time.

If we can find a good bowling coach, in 2 years time we can be a v good team.

The current pitches we see are unlikely to encourage or develop fast bowlers in Pakistan

Also, to your point, indian bowlers like Shami, ishant, yadav, all average less than 25 at home on subcontinent pitches in past 5+ years. Bumrah hasn't played at home yet. They also average similarly overseas

 

[Indiafan]

We've always produced dead, slow pitches in Pakistan bar the odd veneue, yet still produced fast bowlers like Fazal, Imran, Sarfraz, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Asif and others.

I agree more pace and bounce must be injected into some of these surfaces though.

Almost all of those bowlers relied on reverse to take wickets. There were exceptions like Wasim and Asia

 

[Rana]

T20 is the problem.

 

[Major]

T20 is the problem.

t20 became famous in 2012 onwards, how could it be responsible

 

[Rana]

t20 became famous in 2012 onwards, how could it be responsible

T20 was the thing in 2007 and then the IPL. Thats at least 5 years before 2012 fame as you claim

 

[Sherlock]

Fast bowlers with 200+ wickets - Tests in last 25 years

Pakistan rank joint bottom out of the 10 test playing nations.

What a horrible start.

 

[Major]

T20 was the thing in 2007 and then the IPL. Thats at least 5 years before 2012 fame as you claim

no it was not.

T20 was non serious at the time. It was only around 2012 when players started to take it as a career.

Just because t20 started in 2007 doesn't mean it had an impact on careers of players right away. T20 was non serious to such an extent that Aussie players played it with their nicknames.

Its when West indes won and changed the whole dynamics. Leagues grew and teams saw that you dont have to be renowned team in test level. West indies became mercenary t20 players, and more players from other countries followed suit.

now when we talk about 25 years of pathetic test bowling, we still have 17 years of proof that that its not because of t20.

Besides, the Pakistani t20 mercenaries were arafat, tanvir, azhar mehmood and now Amir.

None of these bowlers were going to pick 200+ in test. They all sucked, Amir also in his comeback.

Only Gul could have done it, but Gul didn't become a merc t20 player. Its just that he performed better and he only retired due to injuries.

Asif and Abbas are test bowlers, they are not merc t20 players.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan rank joint bottom out of the 10 test playing nations.

What a horrible start.

How?

Only SWENA and India have fast bowlers with 200+ test wickets. So, 6 teams.

Vaas debuted in 1994, so SL misses out too. Murali is not a fast bowler and Malinga is not a successful test bowler.

 

[Firebat]

Wasim Akram making the point on commentary earlier that when you look at how dead and slow these Pakistani pitches are, it's not hard to see why we don't produce high quality fast bowlers.

Wasim: "I'm all for home advantage as far as the wicket is concerned, but then we wonder why we're not having fast bowlers around. Have you seen this delivery? [bouncer from Rabada that bounced low off the pitch] Who wants to be a fast bowler on this pitch?"

Ramiz: "It's like running in and hitting your head against the wall, because you know that not a lot is going to come your way on a surface like this. But maybe it hardens you I guess Waz?"

Wasim: "Obviously it hardens you, but to start off with you need to have that mindset that you want to be a fast bowler. You're not going to get quick wickets here in the subcontinent, especially at this level"

 

[Sherlock]

Pakistan rank joint bottom out of the 10 test playing nations.

What a horrible start.

<a href="https://ibb.co/7XJZY5V"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/7XJZY5V/20210204-104942.jpg" alt="20210204-104942" border="0"></a>

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Wasim Akram making the point on commentary earlier that when you look at how dead and slow these Pakistani pitches are, it's not hard to see why we don't produce high quality fast bowlers.

By that logic, shouldn't Pakistan produce high quality spin bowlers and great spin playing batsmen?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

No doubt ball tampering helped the legends massively.

 

[Varun]

That's why I never take any thread that says so-and-so is going to be the next McGrath seriously.

W and W were a moment in time. That time ended 18 years ago. Move on.

 

[Hyperion66]

By that logic, shouldn't Pakistan produce high quality spin bowlers and great spin playing batsmen?

TBH dead pitches are not very conductive for spin bowling as well except for the 5th day. They are not good for scoring runs either. Basically these type of pitches squeeze the life out of a test match. However, I am not watching Pak's test matches so can't comment on this particular pitch and talking about slow-low dead tracks in general.

 

[mastimasti]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The decline of Pakistan's pace-bowlers <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/jFkle7viZE">pic.twitter.com/jFkle7viZE</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1357240787533238272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 4, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Last 25 years meaning since 1996? Does that mean players who have debuted in that time or how does this work?

If it is debuts then it is an unfair stats because many fast bowlers have not played a lot of tests. Akhtar probably played the most and he has 178 test wickets.

It might be better to highlight how many pace bowlers, by nation have a particular average or sr than just wickets because in the last 25 years there have been Akhtar, Asif, Amir, Abbas, Gul and now Shaheen, possibly the return of Hasan and the rise of Naseem and a fair few others coming through the ranks.

Pakistan has had plenty of pace options, some have even found tonnes of success in various formats. Longevity has been the problem due to injury, lack of test cricket and poor selection (such as Abbas being dropped at the moment).

I am surprised Abbas' drop hasnt been made a bigger issue on this forum.

 

[Saj]

A number of reasons I guess.

Priorities of some bowlers.
A lack of ability.
Fitness issues.
Pitches.

 

[mastimasti]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The decline of Pakistan's pace-bowlers <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/jFkle7viZE">pic.twitter.com/jFkle7viZE</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1357240787533238272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 4, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So, if we look at bowling averages for pace bowlers in that same time period, which is indicative of quality without penalising someone for a short career (cut off of 20 wickets for consistency), there are Pakistani bowlers with a sub 25 averages.

That is not bad at all considering the rest of the list is made up of saffers and Aussies in far better bowling conditions have obviously better selection policies and squads in that time.

 

[TheSultan]

There are many factors at play here:

1. The amount of cricket - Pakistan plays a fraction of the number of tests England, Aus, India and NZ play
2. The Misbah days where all of the "home" strategy was spin, spin, spin - shout from the rooftops, but no preparation for foreign conditions.
3. Point 2 above leads to inconsistency in selection - apart from Amir 2016-2019 and Abbas 2017-2019, no one bowler had a regular spot in the team to make a run for 200 wickets - or even 150 for that matter.
4. The "fast" bowlers for a decade have had pitches where you just have to trundle in and you'll be gifted wickets - army of trundlers produced, and then you take them to international cricket they realise they're not good enough

 

[rockyboy2018]

Pakistan bowling attack quality may have declined but no way we are average bowling attack. If SA was such a quality fast bowling attack, they should have blown us away in the last match. Pitches play a key role in making of a good fast bowler. SA enjoy home conditions but sadly for Pakistan we haven’t played home cricket for almost 12 years I believe.

Shaheen, Hasnain, Rauf, musa, naseem, these bowlers need experience which will come in time.

If we can find a good bowling coach, in 2 years time we can be a v good team.

What is Waqar Younis doing? Getting easy money. I mean, he did not even fix Wahab's bowling action. Maybe Aaqib Javedf should be hired as he has done coaching courses and he is a good communicator. Atleast try some other person not just tried and test failures as a bowling coach.

 

[hitthestump]

No doubt ball tampering helped the legends massively.

I ask you that based on the thousands of hours of footage that exists of the W's, how much proof can someone show of ball tampering? If perhaps it was so cleverly hidden away from the cameras each and every time, how come no other bowler in this period chose to take advantage of it?

This new narrative where people try to tarnish the names of two of the greatest fast bowlers of all time is sickening really. Please come with proof of systemic and repeated ball tampering before throwing such damaging allegations.

 

[TheSultan]

I ask you that based on the thousands of hours of footage that exists of the W's, how much proof can someone show of ball tampering? If perhaps it was so cleverly hidden away from the cameras each and every time, how come no other bowler in this period chose to take advantage of it?

This new narrative where people try to tarnish the names of two of the greatest fast bowlers of all time is sickening really. Please come with proof of systemic and repeated ball tampering before throwing such damaging allegations.

Exactly - I don’t know where this new narrative has come from. Look at that last karachi test, the ball was reversing considerably but the bowlers were not quick or skilled enough to take advantage of it. In the stokes headingley game, the Aussies were reversing it, but were not good enough to take advantage.

So are the bowlers still tampering to get reverse swing in the current day n age. It’s not as if reverse swing has gone away due to more cameras. The answer is simple - it’s all about skill and pace and nothing else.

 

[RyanRyan10]

I ask you that based on the thousands of hours of footage that exists of the W's, how much proof can someone show of ball tampering? If perhaps it was so cleverly hidden away from the cameras each and every time, how come no other bowler in this period chose to take advantage of it?

This new narrative where people try to tarnish the names of two of the greatest fast bowlers of all time is sickening really. Please come with proof of systemic and repeated ball tampering before throwing such damaging allegations.

Some of them hate Waqar the bowling coach so they have come with this narrative that Waqar doesn't have great knowledge about fast bowling and succeeded only because of ball tampering

 

[Markhor]

I ask you that based on the thousands of hours of footage that exists of the W's, how much proof can someone show of ball tampering? If perhaps it was so cleverly hidden away from the cameras each and every time, how come no other bowler in this period chose to take advantage of it?

This new narrative where people try to tarnish the names of two of the greatest fast bowlers of all time is sickening really. Please come with proof of systemic and repeated ball tampering before throwing such damaging allegations.

Waqar Younis has the distinct honour of being the first international cricketer to be charged with ball tampering. One can only be certain there were prior incidents that went unreported, especially in an age of home umpires:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/waqar-first-to-be-fined-for-ball-tampering-88784?platform=amp

It's irrefutable that while our fast bowlers no doubt possessed great skill, they also didn't hesitate to bend the rules. Shoaib Akhtar got charged during the Sri Lanka tri-series in 2003. Aqib Javed literally did it in front of the cameras in the 1992 tour of England prompting Richie Benaud to say "Steady on !"

You can as go as far back as the 1979 tour of Australia where Sarfraz Nawaz took 7-1. Mushtaq Mohammad admitted in his book they lifted the seam.

 

[giri26]

Well to be frank in the entire history of Pakistan only 3 fast bowlers have crossed 200 Test wickets and we know who they are. No pace bowler who debuted after 1990 has taken 200 Test wickets for Pakistan. I don't buy the theory of Pakistan not playing enough Tests. Pakistan were one of the top sides in the 90's and played lots of Tests and even in the 2000's they did. The bowlers just lacked discipline and fitness to go on to play more Tests. Shoaib Akthar for example has only himself to blame for playing just 40 odd Tests. Same goes for Asif and Aamir. The rest of them were just not good enough.

Akthar, Asif and Aamir were the last of good fast bowlers for Pakistan. Sami, Gul etc started off brilliantly but were not good enough to play 50+ Tests. Not because of competition or lack of games for Pakistan, they just were not good enough. The fact that Umar Gul played 47 Tests and Mohammad Sami 36 Tests for an average 34 and 52 respectively squashes the competition theory.

The fact remains that in the last 25 years Pakistan just did not produce a lot of good international quality bowlers who had consistency, fitness and discipline.

 

[Buffet]

I ask you that based on the thousands of hours of footage that exists of the W's, how much proof can someone show of ball tampering? If perhaps it was so cleverly hidden away from the cameras each and every time, how come no other bowler in this period chose to take advantage of it?

-----------------------------------


Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."

Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.

Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it."

After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"

On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.

"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."

However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/as-old-as-the-hills-259676

--------------------------------

 

[giri26]

Well to be frank in the entire history of Pakistan only 3 fast bowlers have crossed 200 Test wickets and we know who they are. No pace bowler who debuted after 1990 has taken 200 Test wickets for Pakistan. I don't buy the theory of Pakistan not playing enough Tests. Pakistan were one of the top sides in the 90's and played lots of Tests and even in the 2000's they did. The bowlers just lacked discipline and fitness to go on to play more Tests. Shoaib Akthar for example has only himself to blame for playing just 40 odd Tests. Same goes for Asif and Aamir. The rest of them were just not good enough.

Akthar, Asif and Aamir were the last of good fast bowlers for Pakistan. Sami, Gul etc started off brilliantly but were not good enough to play 50+ Tests. Not because of competition or lack of games for Pakistan, they just were not good enough. The fact that Umar Gul played 47 Tests and Mohammad Sami 36 Tests for an average 34 and 52 respectively squashes the competition theory.

The fact remains that in the last 25 years Pakistan just did not produce a lot of good international quality bowlers who had consistency, fitness and discipline.

Wow did not realise that Mohammad Sami was so awful. An average of 52 in 36 Tests is as bad as it gets. That is Ajit Agarkar level. Actually the more shocking stat is his ODI stat with an average of almost 30. Agarkar averaged 27 in ODIs and beats Sami in all aspects of bowling record in ODIs except for econ. So there you go, these were some ordinary bowlers, no wonder they did not manage 200 Test wickets.

 

[Hyperion66]

Wow did not realise that Mohammad Sami was so awful. An average of 52 in 36 Tests is as bad as it gets. That is Ajit Agarkar level. Actually the more shocking stat is his ODI stat with an average of almost 30. Agarkar averaged 27 in ODIs and beats Sami in all aspects of bowling record in ODIs except for econ. So there you go, these were some ordinary bowlers, no wonder they did not manage 200 Test wickets.

Let's not insult Agarkar. He won us test against Aus in Aus. That alone is better than Sami's entire career. Also Agarkar was a genuine match winner in Odi and a pretty handy bat as well.

 

[Hyperion66]

-----------------------------------


Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."

Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.

Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it."

After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"

On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.

"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."

However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/as-old-as-the-hills-259676

--------------------------------

No wonder they all have otherworldly stats against NZ.

Thanks for posting, very interesting read and an eye opener.

 

[BreadPakoda]

-----------------------------------


Crowe dropped a delivery from Abdul Qadir at his feet and bent down to pick it up and lob it back to the bowler. "It was totally mutilated on one side with two or three deep scratches gouged out," he said. "I complained to the umpires but they did nothing."

Later in the day the ball went out of shape and was changed. As it was thrown to the boundary by the umpires, Willie Watson and Mark Priest rushed to intercept it. "It bore no resemblance to a cricket ball," Crowe claimed. The pair took it back to the changing-room but, so Crowe noted, Intikhab Alam, the Pakistan manager, came in and took it and it was never seen again.

Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it."

After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"

On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.

"Neither umpire showed any concern or took any notice in what we were doing even though, at the end of the innings, the ball was very scratched," Pringle noted. "One side was shiny but there were lots of grooves and lines and deep gouges on the other side. It was so obvious. It was ripped to shreds ... one side of the ball had been demolished. The umpires were walking across to each other and talking quite a lot. I sensed that they could tell what was going on ... but they didn't want to get involved in anything controversial."

However, while the men in white remained implacable, others were wise to what was happening. Pringle recalled that as he left the stadium after taking his seven wickets on the first day, a local dignitary tapped him on the shoulder and said: "Pringle, it is fair now. Both teams are cheating."

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/as-old-as-the-hills-259676

--------------------------------

Why couldn't he replicate it in the second innings?

 

[szrana007]

No wonder they all have otherworldly stats against NZ.

Thanks for posting, very interesting read and an eye opener.

Two W's alone haven't won us 7 test series in New Zealand. They played their part, yes but Pakistan teams of all generations have done well in NZL, apart from the recent ones.

 

[Buffet]

Why couldn't he replicate it in the second innings?

Exactly replicating ?? I don't know, but I looked at match figures. His figures in the second inning were top 4 order wickets at 25 apiece.

To put it in context, Pringle's career average excluding this test is 59 per wicket. So clearly, he was a useless bowler in general.

152/11 in this match by Pringle.

He was simply out bowled by Waqar in the same match - 130/12 - that's 12 wickets at 10 apiece. Otherwise, Pringle would have won this test for NZ.

 

[mazkhan]

Theres a detailed explanation about waqar and wasim ability to reverse swing written in 1993 wisden by Jack bannister i suggest people read it , its the action , various grip and ability of the bowler and that precise yorker length, plus pace that gets it to reverse , u could take a bite out of the ball and polish the other side with brylcreem but if you don't have the ability you won't reverse it .

Much of the nonsense of tampering came from the English media it was laid to rest by waqar wasim in 1996 and old Trafford 2001 and incidentally the other 2 bowlers couldn't reverse it azhar mahmood and razzaq who played in 2001 with waqar and wasim .

Also in the mid 2000s when cameras had improved 2 bowlers for Pakistan I remember reversed it rana naveed and umar gul.
Umar gul was such a natural at it , it forced the jcc 2 first change the ball in 40 overs and then when it still didn't work they bought in the 2 new ball rule to kill of reverse with older ball.

Also , broad anderson using their boot spikes , Trescothick admitting using sweets and sugar, allegations of lip balm and suncream , and not to forget the pile of crap in Athertons pocket .

As for using nails there's been around 3 reported incidences of vernon philander using his nails or picking at the outer seam .
Then you had zipgate and faf du plessis also ball tampering.

 

[szrana007]

Theres a detailed explanation about waqar and wasim ability to reverse swing written in 1993 wisden by Jack bannister i suggest people read it , its the action , various grip and ability of the bowler and that precise yorker length, plus pace that gets it to reverse , u could take a bite out of the ball and polish the other side with brylcreem but if you don't have the ability you won't reverse it .

Much of the nonsense of tampering came from the English media it was laid to rest by waqar wasim in 1996 and old Trafford 2001 and incidentally the other 2 bowlers couldn't reverse it azhar mahmood and razzaq who played in 2001 with waqar and wasim .

Also in the mid 2000s when cameras had improved 2 bowlers for Pakistan I remember reversed it rana naveed and umar gul.
Umar gul was such a natural at it , it forced the jcc 2 first change the ball in 40 overs and then when it still didn't work they bought in the 2 new ball rule to kill of reverse with older ball.

Also , broad anderson using their boot spikes , Trescothick admitting using sweets and sugar, allegations of lip balm and suncream , and not to forget the pile of crap in Athertons pocket .

As for using nails there's been around 3 reported incidences of vernon philander using his nails or picking at the outer seam .
Then you had zipgate and faf du plessis also ball tampering.

This. Great post.

 

[Buffet]

Asif would have surely gotten to 200+ wickets if not for fixing.

 

[Suleiman]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

Nope. Partially right with the ball tampering of old, but even without reverse swing, Imran, Waqar, Wasim would still be GOAT level. People exaggerate their dependence on reverse swing.

Lack of home cricket might affect them mentally to an extent, but not to the extent to not be able to reach 200 test wickets. It’s not like Pak pitches are a paradise for pacers anyway...

 

[Titan24]

Exactly replicating ?? I don't know, but I looked at match figures. His figures in the second inning were top 4 order wickets at 25 apiece.

To put it in context, Pringle's career average excluding this test is 59 per wicket. So clearly, he was a useless bowler in general.

152/11 in this match by Pringle.

He was simply out bowled by Waqar in the same match - 130/12 - that's 12 wickets at 10 apiece. Otherwise, Pringle would have won this test for NZ.

Question is why Chris Pringle didnt continue it and possibly become legend of the game rather than finishing his career after 14 tests and average or 47? Or even any other pacer for that matter in the era as supposedly no one was watching and all they had to was to scratch the ball and become legend.

Thing is generally people whether journalists or cricketers do exaggerate things to forcefully put forward their narrative.

Waqar was a highly skillful bowler and in my opinion that cant be undermined by the narratives around. I am not saying that there was smoke without any fire but, the skills cant be ignored under the umbrella of exaggerated narratives.

Its not like cricket world was epitome of honesty in 90s that Pringle after one match didnt want to do the experiment again as he couldnt sleep at night or everyone around in other countries was so honest that they could do fixing, take steroids and what not but, didnt want to touch the cricket ball in a wrong way.

There is a reason Waqar is rated so highly by the greats of his era who obviously would have read all these things as well but, they knew the overal skills Waqar possessed.

 

[Suleiman]

Theres a detailed explanation about waqar and wasim ability to reverse swing written in 1993 wisden by Jack bannister i suggest people read it , its the action , various grip and ability of the bowler and that precise yorker length, plus pace that gets it to reverse , u could take a bite out of the ball and polish the other side with brylcreem but if you don't have the ability you won't reverse it .

Much of the nonsense of tampering came from the English media it was laid to rest by waqar wasim in 1996 and old Trafford 2001 and incidentally the other 2 bowlers couldn't reverse it azhar mahmood and razzaq who played in 2001 with waqar and wasim .

Also in the mid 2000s when cameras had improved 2 bowlers for Pakistan I remember reversed it rana naveed and umar gul.
Umar gul was such a natural at it , it forced the jcc 2 first change the ball in 40 overs and then when it still didn't work they bought in the 2 new ball rule to kill of reverse with older ball.

Also , broad anderson using their boot spikes , Trescothick admitting using sweets and sugar, allegations of lip balm and suncream , and not to forget the pile of crap in Athertons pocket .

As for using nails there's been around 3 reported incidences of vernon philander using his nails or picking at the outer seam .
Then you had zipgate and faf du plessis also ball tampering.

Even if they did to ball tampering people talk about it as if Wasim and Waqar were useless if not for reverse swing... lol.

 

[TheSultan]

This whole ball tampering debate can be put to bed by analysing the infamous Lords ODI in 1992 when Allan Lamb kept complaining about the ball. With the match in the balance, the umpires changed the ball and watched it like hawks for the rest of the game.

The result - Pakistan still won with Waqar and wasim bowling them to victory. Waqar was man of the match.

As Javed Miandad said after the 1992 series, England were beaten by pace. Reverse swing is reverse reverse swing, even Ian Bell was bowling reverse swing in 2005. The destruction comes from Pace and accuracy. Wahab can reverse the ball too very well too, but his ratio of hitting the stumps is nothing compared to shoaib and the Ws

 

[ManFan]

People are still saying past ATG’s were only great due to tampering with balls.

Yet these are the same people that will raise Starc to the stars.

IK explained this perfectly; In county cricket, where he allegedly tampered the ball, he was the only one who could pick up wickets. Why couldn’t his teammates?

Akram was accused in county cricket as well when he was ripping county teams apart in the early 90’s. Turns out, after a routine check by the umpires, there were no signs of ball tampering.

Do bowlers do it? Yes. But even for the ones that admit to doing it, there is no way of going back and verifying in which games they did and which games they did not.

It’s like match-fixing. You cannot re-write the past based on admittance of wrongdoing in cricket. It’s not like cycling with Armstrong.

 

[Buffet]

Waqar was a highly skillful bowler and in my opinion that cant be undermined by the narratives around. I am not saying that there was smoke without any fire but, the skills cant be ignored under the umbrella of exaggerated narratives.

Just like you, pretty much everyone agrees with Waqar being skillful, and also there can't be smoke without fire viewpoint. Anyone saying that Waqar had no skill did not watch him bowl.

A poster asked about proof of ball-tampering happening and the umpire ignoring it. I am not sure a bigger proof can be there than a useless bowler openly trying it in front of umpires, getting results, and getting away with it. Martin Crow and Pringle both are on record admitting this entire thing.

Tampering still happens from time to time, but it has become harder to do it when umpires are constantly checking the ball and cameras are following players. I am sure, many will still try to do it in the future.

 

[Junaids]

It's a simple lack of vision at the highest level.

Reverse swing is gone forever as a significant factor in Test cricket. It always required doctored balls, and you can't get away with it any more.

That means that the essential criteria for being a Test bowler are some combination of:

MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS
Minimum height 5'10
Minimum median pace 135K
Ability to bowl conventional swing or seam

DESIRABLE CHARACTERISTICS
Height of 6'2 or above
Maximum pace of 150K or above
Median pace of 140K or above
Extreme lift from a full length
Late swing
Ability to average at least 20 as a Test batsman

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

The link was broken. After Wasim and Waqar and before Shaheen and Naseem.
Asif and Amir not only destroyed their careers they also are responsible for this situation.
Amir won a CT, but still he should be the most hated person for Pakistani fans.. But I guess they are more forgiving.

 

[JattMaula]

It's a simple lack of vision at the highest level.

Reverse swing is gone forever as a significant factor in Test cricket. It always required doctored balls, and you can't get away with it any more.

That means that the essential criteria for being a Test bowler are some combination of:

MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS
Minimum height 5'10
Minimum median pace 135K
Ability to bowl conventional swing or seam

DESIRABLE CHARACTERISTICS
Height of 6'2 or above
Maximum pace of 150K or above
Median pace of 140K or above
Extreme lift from a full length
Late swing
Ability to average at least 20 as a Test batsman

Stop the presses people!!!

Junaids has lowered his mandatory requirement's cutoff point for being a test pace bowler.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

Pakistan test matches breakdown for last 30 years :

Years Span Matches

1990s 1990-1999 73
2000s 2000-2009 83
2010s 2010-2019 83
2020s 2020-2021 8

Total of 247 Test Matches

India test matches for last 30 years

Years Span Matches

1990s 1990-1999 68
2000s 2000-2009 103
2010s 2010-2019 107
2020s 2020-2021 6

Total of 287 Test Matches

Australia

Years Span Matches

1990s 1990-1999 105
2000s 2000-2009 115
2010s 2010-2019 112
2020s 2020-2021 5

Total of 337 Matches


South Africa

Years Span Matches

1990s 1992-1999 66
2000s 2000-2009 108
2010s 2010-2019 90
2020s 2020-2021 7

Total of 271 Matches

England

Years Span Matches

1990s 1990-1999 107
2000s 2000-2009 129
2010s 2010-2019 126
2020s 2020-2021 11

Total of 373 Matches

New Zealand

Years Span Matches

1990s 1990-1999 80
2000s 2000-2009 80
2010s 2010-2019 83
2020s 2020-2021 7

Total of 250 matches

So SAF is the true land of Fast Bowlers given the number of matches they have played compared to Big 3.

England I would say are the worse, The conditions are tailor made for fast bowlers with swing and seam, and the resources English system has.

Australia is decent but still should do much better then SAF.

India mostly known for spinners, a slight improvement which has potential to become par with Aus/SAF/Eng in future. Yadav already has 148 wickets.. Bumrah/Siraj and then there are very young potentials who can make it big.

NZ, as usual, punching above their weight.

Pakistan, well, it seems the Fast Bowling Factory has dried up a bit and needs to be rejuvenated.

 

[giri26]

Let's not insult Agarkar. He won us test against Aus in Aus. That alone is better than Sami's entire career. Also Agarkar was a genuine match winner in Odi and a pretty handy bat as well.

Yup agree. Agarkar was a brilliant LOI bowler and very underrated by Indian fans. He did not fulfil his potential as a Test bowler. His 6/43 in Adelaide is one of the best spells by an Indian pacer overseas. Don't forget he also got 6/42 in Melbourne ODI in the same series. Well in terms of Test performances though I think Sami won Pakistan a Test in New Zealand early in his career as well (8 wickets I guess). Even though NZ were nowhere close to Australia of the early 2000's.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Not a decline.

Pakistani pacers are better now, but they do not have the luxury of the doctored balls that the ‘legends’ got to use.

Furthermore, the lack of home cricket and amount of Test matches contribute to no fast bowler having 200+ wickets.

I must say NZ has played 3 test matches only more than Pakistan and population size of 5 million vs 220 million. Plus, the great legacy of Imran, Sarfaraz, Wasim, Waqar.
Something else has gone wrong. It is not the lack of test matches.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Amir and Asif getting banned in 2010 was a massive shock, as both could have had good returns by now. Asif specially.

Misbah came in and we started to adjust to the UAE, mainly focusing on our spin attack. There was a point where Razzaq used to be our second seamer, for quite a period of time. I believe it was then that our pace bowling stocks really took a beating.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

The thing is Pakistan like Windies took it for granted that they will keep on churning Wasims and Waqars. There was no ground level work done to build pace bowlers. Australian, SAF and English have systems to nurture them.
Time to shake things up.

 

[Saj]

The most worrying thing for me though is - can any of the current or upcoming pacers take 200 or more Test wickets?

 

[mastimasti]

The most worrying thing for me though is - can any of the current or upcoming pacers take 200 or more Test wickets?

Shaheen Shah certainly hast he skill, temperament and age. Hasan Ali may too, a return for Abbas should be on the card and 2 or 3 seasons, Naseem Shah could be an exceptional bowler.

the key here is more than 4-6 tests in a year and consistent selections and not nonsensical drops.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

If only we could play more tests.

 

[Stewie]

It’s all about playing more tests at home. There is nothing like playing at home for fast bowlers. You could have a fast bowler play every test on a bouncy Perth wicket but he would still not be as successful if he is not playing on home tracks where you are comfortable.

With the return of cricket to our shores, I am hoping we will see a massive resurgence in our fast bowlers (provided they are given support, of course)

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Abbas, amir and hassan have all been in the top 3 in one ranking or the other

If Abbas can come back like hasan did he will probably be the first
Shaheen has time on his side
Hasan ali will struggle on pitches with even and true bounce as he relies on uneven bounce with his skiddy action


Other then that I can't think of anyone else in domestics

 

[Bewal Express]

Abbas, amir and hassan have all been in the top 3 in one ranking or the other

If Abbas can come back like hasan did he will probably be the first
Shaheen has time on his side
Hasan ali will struggle on pitches with even and true bounce as he relies on uneven bounce with his skiddy action


Other then that I can't think of anyone else in domestics

Lets hope Abbas never comes back, a waste time bowling at 75mph rubbish. As soon he goes we start taking 20 wickets again. The thing that worries me about our bowlers is mostly the lack of skill, each bowler has to be able to swing or seam the ball, if they cant, they shouldnt be chosen

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Lets hope Abbas never comes back, a waste time bowling at 75mph rubbish. As soon he goes we start taking 20 wickets again. The thing that worries me about our bowlers is mostly the lack of skill, each bowler has to be able to swing or seam the ball, if they cant, they shouldnt be chosen

Hasan ali proved how effective abbas could be if he was 10mph quicker
And yes we just stick shinwari and riaz in there because of pace and neither of them swing the ball

 

[Stewie]

The lack of ability with the new ball is definitely a problem. We don’t have anybody like Jimmy or boult who can get the new ball to swing both ways. Amir was the only one but we need to move on from him.
Afridi can also just angle it across and that’s about it. Waqar needs to work on the new ball skills of our guys.

 

[Bewal Express]

Hasan ali proved how effective abbas could be if he was 10mph quicker
And yes we just stick shinwari and riaz in there because of pace and neither of them swing the ball

But when you are into your mid 30s, you are not going to find 5, never mind 10mph

 

[chacha kashmiri]

But when you are into your mid 30s, you are not going to find 5, never mind 10mph

Forget swing, we now only bowl fifth stump channels and swing it after 50 overs
We don't set batsmen up or have any type of plan like the Australians and south Africans do
No forcing the batsmen on the back foot and following up up with fuller delivieres or the shoaib akhtar change in pace of the infamous 2005 series

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan's 3 pace bowlers combined figures today:<br><br>Overs 11<br>Runs conceded 118<br>Wickets 3<br>Economy rate 10.72<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvSA?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvSA</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1359907701623554049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 11, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

In ODI cricket history, Pakistan have dismissed batsmen 'bowled' on 1,656 occasions - 246 more than any other team (Australia 1,410, India 1,361)

A lot of trust in our bowlers in the past but seems that is not working any more.

 

[Artaxerxes]

All our fast bowlers are either young or inexperienced.Only Hasan Ali has a some of experience.Can’t expect them to become world class straight away.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Don’t know why everyone’s complaining, majority of the posters here wanted these bowlers in the team over the likes of Wahab and Amir.

Remember posters saying they’d rather lose 100 consecutive games without player x and y than win the WC with player x and y.

Reality hit them hard.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Asif could have been a 500 + wickets bowler

Amir, probably a 400+ wickets level bowler

The above two are not in the list only because of the issues in their career leading to bans.

Surprised The Gulldozer is not in the list. At the very list, I thought 250 + test wickets was a babre minimum bar for him. Never found himself in trouble and was very fit. Wonder what happened there

Shabbir was a freak but the bowling action did him.

The above 4 were stand out Pakistani bowlers for him after the WWS era

Longevity has been a big issue with these boys.

Puts into perspective how phenomenal WW were. They absolutely feasted in both formats for a decade.

 

[Saj]

The bowling isn't the weak link in my opinion.

We have 2 very good pace bowlers in Hassan Ali and Shaheen Afridi, and a number of others who can back them up. The spin-bowlers are competitive, it's the batting that is the big problem. We have 2 batsmen who can be relied upon, the rest are hit and miss and cannot be relied upon to even get double-figure scores in consecutive matches.

 

[Savak]

The bowling isn't the weak link in my opinion.

We have 2 very good pace bowlers in Hassan Ali and Shaheen Afridi, and a number of others who can back them up. The spin-bowlers are competitive, it's the batting that is the big problem. We have 2 batsmen who can be relied upon, the rest are hit and miss and cannot be relied upon to even get double-figure scores in consecutive matches.

Bowling attack is a problem. They were our weakest link in Australia, New Zealand. They only look decent against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe but get thoroughly exposed against England, New Zealand, Australia, India

Tbh I can't think of a single positive Waqar has achieved in his two years. Bharat Arun has improved every single Indian bowler he has been given and has come up with some outstanding tactics against Australian batsmen in Australia twice in a row where the Indian bowlers made every batsman fight for every single run

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The bowling isn't the weak link in my opinion.

We have 2 very good pace bowlers in Hassan Ali and Shaheen Afridi, and a number of others who can back them up. The spin-bowlers are competitive, it's the batting that is the big problem. We have 2 batsmen who can be relied upon, the rest are hit and miss and cannot be relied upon to even get double-figure scores in consecutive matches.

Every team has a specialist spinner in the xi, shadab isn’t a specialist spinner, he’s a part timer.

Hassan Ali is best used in the middle overs, he’s being forced to bowl with the new ball and it’s not worked out for him.

The fact that we only have one new ball bowler is a worrying sign.

I think Hassan Ali can replace Faheem Ashraf, and we can then bring in Qadir who can pair up with Shadab.

Haris Rauf is not good enough for ODI’s, Amir or Dahani should come in to replace him.

The bowling is a weak link but it doesn’t have to be if we get the right players in the team.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not that Pakistan bowling declined in terms of quality pacers, it is that the quality pacers who did show up couldn't last long enough due to the state of Pakistan cricket. Shoaib Akthar, Asif, Amir and even Umar Gul should all have easily passed 200 wickets in this time, but didn't, mainly because they lacked grooming and support.

Imran was able to be self-disciplined enough to succeed as a pacer, also thanks to his exposure to county and World Series Cricket. He personally groomed Wasim and Waqar and thanks to the focus on fitness and professional standards he instilled, they were able to have relatively longer careers.

All of the pacers to come after lacked that mentorship. They either fought with or were betrayed by their captains, and in the case of Gul, thrown out by selectors.

 

[MenInG]

Absolutely no tooth in our bowling attack - just one kid, Shaheen who can cause havoc - but rest just there to earn airmiles!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Apart from Shaheen and Hasan, there is no bowler in our entire domestic circuit.

Cricket is slowly dying in Pakistan.

 

[moghul]

Apart from Shaheen and Hasan, there is no bowler in our entire domestic circuit.

Cricket is slowly dying in Pakistan.

Yes, no hope of recovery unless we get rid of some leaches .

 

[Savak]

Who the hell picked Abbas?

 

[PakEngFan]

Who the hell picked Abbas?

I have no idea why he’s back again.