The fabulous Mr Zardari

[Black Zero]

by Aakar Patel

It is easy to feel admiration and not a little respect for President Asif Zardari, who turns 57 this week.
Like Manmohan Singh, he rarely allows himself to be interviewed by his own media because journalism on the subcontinent is quite poor. And so, while there is much reported about him, and rightly, his defence is rarely taken up.
Let’s look at him as he enters the most difficult period of his tenure.
Zardari’s official website says that after school he “further pursued his education in London where he studied Business”. This is the subcontinental code for “attended some sort of institution but couldn’t get a degree”, so clearly he didn’t pursue it well.
There’s no shame in this and it doesn’t preclude a successful career in our politics. Not a single member of the Nehru-Gandhi family was able to graduate from college between Jawaharlal Nehru (who passed from Trinity College in 1910) and Rahul Gandhi in 1994. In these eight decades, two generations of the dynasty studied and flunked. Indira failed in Oxford and Rajiv failed in Cambridge. Child prodigy Sanjay could not even clear high school. Widows Sonia and Maneka passed school, but married early and never attended college. Priyanka graduated around the same time as Rahul.
Zardari may not have academic skills or interests, but he is first rate at understanding problems. Like all Indian prime ministers since 1991, he has been in power without a parliamentary majority for his party. But he has been skilful at playing with a poor hand. He is like one of the later Mughals who had to use tact and guile rather than force, which was unavailable to them. Like those hapless royals, he heads a state with expenses far in excess of revenue and a military not entirely in his control.
Even so, he has weathered more crises than any Pakistani leader: memogate, NRO, Raymond Davis, judges’ restoration, CIA, drone strikes, energy shortage, corruption in this cabinet, an aggressive Supreme Court and an aggressive media. And he has done this without losing his cool or exhibiting signs of distress.
With great skill, he has kept the Pakistan Peoples’ Party together. He has united it in its anger at how the judiciary has behaved with it. Initially sulking leaders like Amin Fahim have stayed with it, and Zardari continues to command the loyalty of men of the calibre of Aitzaz Ahsan. As president, he doesn’t have executive power, but there is no question that he is the undisputed leader of the PPP. His word is final. The jiyalas have unconditionally accepted him as the heir to the house of Bhutto. This has mainly to do with his marriage, but it helps that he is temperamentally a PPP man. Internationally, he’s seen as moderate, more so than Nawaz Sharif or Imran Khan. It is Zardari, more than his rivals, who is more aligned with what the rest of the world thinks on the war on terror.
As a politician, Zardari has no equal in Pakistan. He has kept his disparate coalition together and managed the difficult MQM brilliantly. He has coolly let go those partisans of his whose passions got the better of them — Zulfiqar Mirza and Babar Awan.
His patient response to what many see as the excesses of the judiciary will eventually benefit him. His political goals are modest. Unlike Imran, who says he will transform Pakistan in three months of power, all Zardari wants to claim is heading an elected government that finished its term, a first for Pakistan. Flexible (except for his unbending posture on the Swiss letter) and pragmatic, he’s the sort of leader Pakistan should have. If he had a freer hand he would have normalised ties with India.
As a man, he is personally courageous and there is no other example of a Pakistani leader who faced being jailed with such stoicism. There was a BBC report, which claimed Zardari attempted suicide in jail during Nawaz Sharif’s second term. If true, this was probably tactical more than out of frustration. Zardari is not the sort of man who gives up because a few things are going against him and his years as president have shown us this. He looks ahead and doesn’t wring his hands too much.
The election of Abdul Qadir Gilani, despite the ganging-up against him of the PML-N, the PTI and the Jamaat-e-Islami should give pause to those who think Zardari’s popularity is approaching single digit.
Multan is home ground for Shah Mahmood Qureshi and this result should also worry the tsunami-wallahs.
Happy birthday, Mr President.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 22nd, 2012.

 

[Looney]

good article and I agree with most of what is said there

 

[amateurdentist]

abu jahl was also brave and smart.
kind of funny how people go on complaining about the current state in pakistan but when its election time, they choose or or . and then proceed to call the awam jahil......

 

[0tt0man]

Zardari has a PhD in 'beghairti' and incompetence. Hardly something to be proud of

 

[DW44]

abu jahl was also brave and smart.
kind of funny how people go on complaining about the current state in pakistan but when its election time, they choose or or . and then proceed to call the awan jahil......

The awam votes for them, that's why people who don't call them jahil. The awam has proven it's jahalat by the fact that after 65 years of independence including a foundation in its early years(late 50s to 73) that most countries would kill for, they have a per capita GDP of $1400, a society where open proclamation of your faith can get you killed and a literacy rate of barely 60%.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Great article. Agree with almost all of it.

 

[UP]

He is a cunning politician no doubt.

Sadly, he has done literally nothing for Pakistan's betterment.

 

[saadibaba]

Zardari had the good luck to be present at the right place and the right time. He is a master tactician probably the best this country have seen in a while but there is only so much one can achieve by playing sly games and manipulating the political system. You need a Bhutto pedigree to excite the hearts of the jiyalas and to gain their unwavering support. Last time, the murder of BB was enough to get him the sympathy vote, plus PML-N was poorly prepared for the elections. This time it won't be that easy. PML-N and PTI are ready with the judiciary at their side. Here are certain factors which will make a PPP victory hard to achieve.

1. The incumbency factor, especially when the party has done such a poor job in every field and at every level.

2. In the last election, PPP won almost 40% of their seats in the NA from areas outside Sindh and South Punjab. Those areas like north Punjab, KP and Balochistan are not looking as promising as they did last time.

3. PPP has pretty much abandoned the urban vote bank. They have already assumed that they are unlikely to win any seats from urban areas because of their poor performance and media's influence in those areas which is predominantly anti PPP. Now they are totally relying on rural voters, a risky strategy to say the least.

4. Because of the fear of terrorist attacks or other reasons, the PPP leadership which mainly consists of Zardari will be unable to hold large rallies across Pakistan, like BB used to do. One has to be pretty involved and motivated to get the jiyalas riled up, esp. in Punjab. Sitting in the president house is not going to do it for the jiyalas, even Bilawal is not used to that type of campaigning and it's hard to imagine him doing much more than winning his own seat.

5. PML-N which used to pretend to be anti-establishment has recently shown their true colors and are displaying themselves to be the same old pro establishment party. They know that the path towards victory goes through GHQ, hence I sense more pro establishment pandering from them in the coming months, on the other hand, PPP can never promote themselves as pro establishment, even if they are in reality more pro establishment than anyone. They will continue to play the anti establishment and anti judiciary game in the media, but its unlikely to work, not this time at least.

As for PTI, I am sensing some desperation on their part from the events of the last few weeks. Making alliance with Sheikh Rashid, offering party membership to Amir Liaqat and pandering to the religious right in Karachi and elsewhere does not seem like the doings of a party once destined to sweep the nation. They are still strong contenders but I think in the end it's going to come down to which party Gen. Kayani is likely to endorse. Can he trust Nawaz with his checkered past with Army generals or can he trust IK who can be head strong and may not follow the script laid out for him with regards to foreign policy. At this time, it's a toss up.

 

[amateurdentist]

The awam votes for them, that's why people who don't call them jahil. The awam has proven it's jahalat by the fact that after 65 years of independence including a foundation in its early years(late 50s to 73) that most countries would kill for, they have a per capita GDP of $1400, a society where open proclamation of your faith can get you killed and a literacy rate of barely 60%.

i was referring to people on PP who post articles and open threads crying about the present government/status-quo, lamenting the victims of blasphemy laws, general lawlessness in karachi, shia killings etc, then proceeding to be die-hard supporters of the government which is supposed to do something about the state of affairs but is more interested in politics and embezzelment(and voting for them).
I would expect these members of PP, who are probably literate, to have more of a brain than stegosaurous.
these people do not have the right to complain about the state of affairs of pakistan or call the awam jahil(which they are) because they themselves are the worst of jahils

 

[Mohsin]

Bar the end part, good article. It's true, he's a proper politician...he knows how to get what he wants/needs and he knows how to do it.

He'll have all the worlds allegations, lowest of the low allegations thrown at him, he'll just sit there smiling and take it without reacting in some jazbati way
He used his best friend Zulfiqar Mirza to put MQM under his thumb and now they're Zardari's ghulam practically
He managed to get a price on Aitizaz Aisan...never thought I'd see that happen
He's using Faisal Abidi to take down the way that is the judiciary now...let's hope that fails

 

[zaid65]

There’s no shame in this and it doesn’t preclude a successful career in our politics. Not a single member of the Nehru-Gandhi family was able to graduate from college between Jawaharlal Nehru (who passed from Trinity College in 1910) and Rahul Gandhi in 1994. In these eight decades, two generations of the dynasty studied and flunked. Indira failed in Oxford and Rajiv failed in Cambridge. Child prodigy Sanjay could not even clear high school. Widows Sonia and Maneka passed school, but married early and never attended college. Priyanka graduated around the same time as Rahul.

If Nehru family did not attend or did not graduate from the college, that does not justify or shows lack of role or importance of education in politics. India achieved more success in the world when Man Mohan Singh became the prime minster than Nehru family. Mr Singh, a Oxford and Cambridge graduate clearly showed what an educated man can do or achieve , while the top level politician despite have massive support in the country failed to achieve because of lack of education ( read as vision).

As a politician, Zardari has no equal in Pakistan. He has kept his disparate coalition together and managed the difficult MQM brilliantly.

Yes, there is no doubt he is shrewd and genius ( read as an evil) politician, but giving credit for keeping the coalition together is no rocket science ( especially MQM). You throw the money ( read as bone), top level of ministries, cover up their crimes, they are with you, for that you do not have to be genius or top level politician, you need to have ultimate beghairat.

The election of Abdul Qadir Gilani, despite the ganging-up against him of the PML-N, the PTI and the Jamaat-e-Islami should give pause to those who think Zardari’s popularity is approaching single digit.
Multan is home ground for Shah Mahmood Qureshi and this result should also worry the tsunami-wallahs

In by-election process,( majority of the time), the ruling party always wins the election and in this case, the election was held in the PM's own constituency, where he has done lot work ( due to unlimited resources as a PM ) for last 4 years, plus as usual they have played the victim card for being dismissed by the CJ, so no reason to be surprised or celebrate or the victory of this by-election.

Overall, a poor and childish article written by some biased journalist ( may be a lafafa journalist or have some hidden agenda)

 

[Bewal Express]

He has kept the coalition together by bribing people. This govts economic incompetence will haunt Pakistan for generations to come. They have borrowed the same amount money as the country has borrowed in the last 60. They have not collected taxes(as it would mean that they themselves would have to start paying them) and have just resorted to printing money-which just leads to inflation. They are without doubt the most incompetent govt the country has ever seen, which is saying something as they have a lot of competition from both previous PPP and PML govts and some of the Generals.

 

[Down2Earth]

he's a smart politician, no doubt about that

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Sadly not as many disparaging comments as the 11 year old thread

It's interesting though, in other countries, whenever something terrible happens, like i don't know a lunatic kills people in theatres, people assess the leaders of the country, the messages and condolences they give and how they act upon it to improve the security of the country

In pakistan someone gets set upon by lunatic and mullahs, who are only a fringe part of the political set up get all the analysis and blame. Strange.

and the americans continue giving aid to pakistan while 11 year old girls are getting kidnapped, wheres all the talk about global intervention and sanctions

 

[asifp]

I hate him for what he has done for Pakistan.

But I still have to admit he is a evil genius. Should be a lecturer on negotiation skills ha Harvard

 

[IgnitedMind]

I think article is downplaying the importance of an educated politician. Should realize the economic development of India should be attributed to Two people... Manmohan Singh..an oxford and cambridge graduate.... PV Narasimha Rao.. Lawyer, author..knows 8 languages.

Nehru can family can boast about the fact they have held positions for a long time...but other than decisions here and there...they have done Jack. and Not much intelligence is needed to be at the top...when you are part of Nehru family/Zardari family ..in a society like us....all you need is money.....illeterate followers who vote for their party no matter what....and some good followers..

All the better politicians in India are the educated ones..

 

[Amar786]

he's a smart politician, no doubt about that

He aint a smart politician it is due general kayani he is in power due to kayani generosity.

 

[zaid65]

I think article is downplaying the importance of an educated politician. Should realize the economic development of India should be attributed to Two people... Manmohan Singh..an oxford and cambridge graduate.... PV Narasimha Rao.. Lawyer, author..knows 8 languages.

Nehru can family can boast about the fact they have held positions for a long time...but other than decisions here and there...they have done Jack. and Not much intelligence is needed to be at the top...when you are part of Nehru family/Zardari family ..in a society like us....all you need is money.....illeterate followers who vote for their party no matter what....and some good followers..

All the better politicians in India are the educated ones..

The irony here is, not just illiterate but so called educated people ( super idiots) are blind followers of these dynasty politicians. But why I am surprised, if these super idiots blindly follow people like Shoaib Malik ( Read loser), following Zardari is step forward for their IQ.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

If Zardari had actually used his negotiation skills and shrewd mind for the good of the country who knows where Paksitan would've been today .I think he can be an asset to Pakistan if he uses his skills for good. In other words , he is the kind of guy you want on your side when in negotiations.

 

[zaid65]

If Zardari had actually used his negotiation skills and shrewd mind for the good of the country who knows where Paksitan would've been today .I think he can be an asset to Pakistan if he uses his skills for good. In other words , he is the kind of guy you want on your side when in negotiations.

No, you need cheaters, incompetent and hypocrites on the other side of the negotiation.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

No, you need cheaters, incompetent and hypocrites on the other side of the negotiation.

no you dont

 

[ahsan88]

Zardari had the good luck to be present at the right place and the right time. He is a master tactician probably the best this country have seen in a while but there is only so much one can achieve by playing sly games and manipulating the political system. You need a Bhutto pedigree to excite the hearts of the jiyalas and to gain their unwavering support. Last time, the murder of BB was enough to get him the sympathy vote, plus PML-N was poorly prepared for the elections. This time it won't be that easy. PML-N and PTI are ready with the judiciary at their side. Here are certain factors which will make a PPP victory hard to achieve.

1. The incumbency factor, especially when the party has done such a poor job in every field and at every level.

2. In the last election, PPP won almost 40% of their seats in the NA from areas outside Sindh and South Punjab. Those areas like north Punjab, KP and Balochistan are not looking as promising as they did last time.

3. PPP has pretty much abandoned the urban vote bank. They have already assumed that they are unlikely to win any seats from urban areas because of their poor performance and media's influence in those areas which is predominantly anti PPP. Now they are totally relying on rural voters, a risky strategy to say the least.

4. Because of the fear of terrorist attacks or other reasons, the PPP leadership which mainly consists of Zardari will be unable to hold large rallies across Pakistan, like BB used to do. One has to be pretty involved and motivated to get the jiyalas riled up, esp. in Punjab. Sitting in the president house is not going to do it for the jiyalas, even Bilawal is not used to that type of campaigning and it's hard to imagine him doing much more than winning his own seat.

5. PML-N which used to pretend to be anti-establishment has recently shown their true colors and are displaying themselves to be the same old pro establishment party. They know that the path towards victory goes through GHQ, hence I sense more pro establishment pandering from them in the coming months, on the other hand, PPP can never promote themselves as pro establishment, even if they are in reality more pro establishment than anyone. They will continue to play the anti establishment and anti judiciary game in the media, but its unlikely to work, not this time at least.

As for PTI, I am sensing some desperation on their part from the events of the last few weeks. Making alliance with Sheikh Rashid, offering party membership to Amir Liaqat and pandering to the religious right in Karachi and elsewhere does not seem like the doings of a party once destined to sweep the nation. They are still strong contenders but I think in the end it's going to come down to which party Gen. Kayani is likely to endorse. Can he trust Nawaz with his checkered past with Army generals or can he trust IK who can be head strong and may not follow the script laid out for him with regards to foreign policy. At this time, it's a toss up.

Excellent analysis.

I would just like to add that PPP has only abandoned the urban areas in Northern Punjab. The vote-bank still remains in those areas, but the majority of them are unlikely to come out and vote for the party.

 

[Black Zero]

- Zardari negotiated his release with Mush govt. (He did not sign any deal and he did not sit in Mush's lap )

- Zardari negotiated return of Bay Nazir (indirectly also of NS) with Mush and USA

- Zardari was titled "Mard-e- hur" even by his opponents

- Zaradari made a ppp worker as a PM

- Zardari forced mush out of country by passing resolutions against him in provisional/national assemblies

- Zardari forced their arch rival lion to become goat.

- MQM, JUI-F, ANP, PML-N/Q ...all in pocket on Zardari

- ISI, COAS neutralized by Zaradari :wikileaks

- CJ failed to harm Zardari (in fact, turned opposition as an advantage/card)

- PPPP is mum about PTI so that PTI keep weakening PML-N

- Zardari won the hearts of jyalas

- After Bay Nazir, he has become the symbol of national unity akistan Khappay

 

[zaid65]

- Zardari negotiated his release with Mush govt. (He did not sign any deal and he did not sit in Mush's lap )

- Zardari negotiated return of Bay Nazir (indirectly also of NS) with Mush and USA

- Zardari was titled "Mard-e- hur" even by his opponents

- Zaradari made a ppp worker as a PM

- Zardari forced mush out of country by passing resolutions against him in provisional/national assemblies

- Zardari forced their arch rival lion to become goat.

- MQM, JUI-F, ANP, PML-N/Q ...all in pocket on Zardari

- ISI, COAS neutralized by Zaradari :wikileaks

- CJ failed to harm Zardari (in fact, turned opposition as an advantage/card)

- PPPP is mum about PTI so that PTI keep weakening PML-N

- Zardari won the hearts of jyalas

- After Bay Nazir, he has become the symbol of national unity akistan Khappay

Zardari forced Firdous Ashiq Awan to include Pakistani Bradman Shaoib Malik, so will khappay in the team

Fixed!!

PS: This is why I love Zardari the most.

 

[the Great Khan]

- Zardari negotiated his release with Mush govt. (He did not sign any deal and he did not sit in Mush's lap )

- Zardari negotiated return of Bay Nazir (indirectly also of NS) with Mush and USA

- Zardari was titled "Mard-e- hur" even by his opponents

- Zaradari made a ppp worker as a PM

- Zardari forced mush out of country by passing resolutions against him in provisional/national assemblies

- Zardari forced their arch rival lion to become goat.

- MQM, JUI-F, ANP, PML-N/Q ...all in pocket on Zardari

- ISI, COAS neutralized by Zaradari :wikileaks

- CJ failed to harm Zardari (in fact, turned opposition as an advantage/card)

- PPPP is mum about PTI so that PTI keep weakening PML-N

- Zardari won the hearts of jyalas

- After Bay Nazir, he has become the symbol of national unity akistan Khappay

How has any of the above helped the lives of the ordinray Pakistani? all i read is how he has helped himself and his loyalists.

I want you to write down five things that this man has done for the betterment of ordinary pakistanis and pakistan!

 

[Bewal Express]

How has any of the above helped the lives of the ordinray Pakistani? all i read is how he has helped himself and his loyalists.

I want you to write down five things that this man has done for the betterment of ordinary pakistanis and pakistan!

Stop asking ridiculous questions about whether any ordinary Pakistanis have benefitted and praise the evil genius for his work in helping the PPP and partners loot the country.

 

[the Great Khan]

Stop asking ridiculous questions about whether any ordinary Pakistanis have benefitted and praise the evil genius for his work in helping the PPP and partners loot the country.

sorry i didnt realise the cat had got our resident PPP supporters tongue..

where are you BZ? post what your pir Zardari has done for the people of pakistan in 5 eyars. i mean he must have done something if he is such a genius!

here let me get you started: loadshedding? debt? economy? law and order? justice? jobs?

 

[Amar786]

- Zardari negotiated his release with Mush govt. (He did not sign any deal and he did not sit in Mush's lap )

- Zardari negotiated return of Bay Nazir (indirectly also of NS) with Mush and USA

- Zardari was titled "Mard-e- hur" even by his opponents

- Zaradari made a ppp worker as a PM

- Zardari forced mush out of country by passing resolutions against him in provisional/national assemblies

- Zardari forced their arch rival lion to become goat.

- MQM, JUI-F, ANP, PML-N/Q ...all in pocket on Zardari

- ISI, COAS neutralized by Zaradari :wikileaks

- CJ failed to harm Zardari (in fact, turned opposition as an advantage/card)

- PPPP is mum about PTI so that PTI keep weakening PML-N

- Zardari won the hearts of jyalas

- After Bay Nazir, he has become the symbol of national unity akistan Khappay

Go and read wilileaks propely zardari was begging america to save him from KAYANI. It is of kayani zardari is in power not once but many times the corps commandors have told him to do a coup but he refused just because to keep pak agenda in the region.

 

[Black Zero]

Go and read wilileaks propely zardari was begging america to save him from KAYANI. It is of kayani zardari is in power not once but many times the corps commandors have told him to do a coup but he refused just because to keep pak agenda in the region.

Yes, Zaradari asked USA, so?
Kyani was made COAS after Bay nazir's approval.

Army can sack Zaradari and ask parliment to chose another president, what's stopping them to do both (sacking president and keeping pak agenda on track)?

Nothing ..

and why they are not doing...cause Zardari neutralized them.

 

[Black Zero]

Fixed!!

PS: This is why I love Zardari the most.

History class


Malik was made captain during Mush era

and was sacked
during Zaradari era.

 

[Black Zero]

How has any of the above helped the lives of the ordinray Pakistani? all i read is how he has helped himself and his loyalists.

I want you to write down five things that this man has done for the betterment of ordinary pakistanis and pakistan!

I have a firm believe that our political-Army is the number one enemy of Pakistan.
Our judges are the most corrupt creatures under the sky
and our bureaucrats are the most useless "things" in the world.


If we need to fix the Pakistan, we will have to fix above three...

Zardari is fighting (and winning) the war for the political rights of people of Pakistan hammad ali jinnah

He has handed over all power to the elected PM (a rarity in Pakistan)

He has shown ultimate commitment to the democracy. (can't say about any other pakistani leader)

He has picked the most agreeable justice as the head of election commission

Election will be held on time, fair and transparent. Anyone who is not satisfied with pppp, can go to pakistan, register his vote and cast for anti-ppp candidate :sheeda-talli

 

[Amar786]

Yes, Zaradari asked USA, so?
Kyani was made COAS after Bay nazir's approval.

Army can sack Zaradari and ask parliment to chose another president, what's stopping them to do both (sacking president and keeping pak agenda on track)?

Nothing ..

and why they are not doing...cause Zardari neutralized them.

Army can over throw the gov but who will the army choose to replace the gov is another question which will rise for the army.

When i talked about agenda i meant america in afghanistan and after america withdraws how to not let india control afghan. Thats what Kayani is after not power like your leaders he is a smart person.

General Kayani is the first DG ISI to get promoted to COAS he must have some qualities to which got promoted. You can talk about zardari or sharif or imran but non of them will serve pakistans agenda which is the first thing on Kayani mind right know which is for america to leave afghan and pakistan to control afghan.

Zardari couldnt control the foreign policy and do yo think he had the courage to neutralized Kayani it was the same zardari who wanted ISI under Rehman maliks control did it happen no it never.

 

[Mohsin]

I think we can see the love for our respected, Mohtram, Bahadur, Qibla, Hazrat, Janab-e-Sadr-e-Islami-Jamhuria-e-Pakistan Asif Ali Zardari....AKA the 'Asia Nelson Mandela'(not my words but the intellectual who made this video)

[UTUBE]dCeqvxLslYU[/UTUBE]

Wah

 

[Bewal Express]

sorry i didnt realise the cat had got our resident PPP supporters tongue..

where are you BZ? post what your pir Zardari has done for the people of pakistan in 5 eyars. i mean he must have done something if he is such a genius!

here let me get you started: loadshedding? debt? economy? law and order? justice? jobs?

I take it that it went over your head! Obviously understanding sarcasm is not one of your strengths.

 

[Black Zero]

Army can over throw the gov but who will the army choose to replace the gov is another question which will rise for the army.

When i talked about agenda i meant america in afghanistan and after america withdraws how to not let india control afghan. Thats what Kayani is after not power like your leaders he is a smart person.

General Kayani is the first DG ISI to get promoted to COAS he must have some qualities to which got promoted. You can talk about zardari or sharif or imran but non of them will serve pakistans agenda which is the first thing on Kayani mind right know which is for america to leave afghan and pakistan to control afghan.

Zardari couldnt control the foreign policy and do yo think he had the courage to neutralized Kayani it was the same zardari who wanted ISI under Rehman maliks control did it happen no it never.

First of all Kiyani is not smart...it's just a misconception...

Second Kyani tried to "sack" zaradari

Thirdly, Kyani thought about replacing zardari with Asfand wali yaar

 

[Amar786]

First of all Kiyani is not smart...it's just a misconception...

Second Kyani tried to "sack" zaradari

Thirdly, Kyani thought about replacing zardari with Asfand wali yaar

How did Kayani get promoted DG ISI to COAS?

Kayani did not try to sack Zardari provide evidence?

It was only a thought and must have been a reply to who he will want to become the leader which shows KAYANI is a patriot and that he aint after power.

 

[the Great Khan]

I take it that it went over your head! Obviously understanding sarcasm is not one of your strengths.

lol bhai i was also being sarcastic..lol..sorry cant do expressions and tone on here!!..lol

 

[the Great Khan]

I have a firm believe that our political-Army is the number one enemy of Pakistan.
Our judges are the most corrupt creatures under the sky
and our bureaucrats are the most useless "things" in the world.


If we need to fix the Pakistan, we will have to fix above three...

Zardari is fighting (and winning) the war for the political rights of people of Pakistan hammad ali jinnah

He has handed over all power to the elected PM (a rarity in Pakistan)

then why has he not given up the chairmanship of the ppp? If he were a true believer in serving the people who should do so. (helps people? No. Helps Zardari? Yes)


He has shown ultimate commitment to the democracy. (can't say about any other pakistani leader)

I'm sorry but you need to elaborate how this has helped the people of Pakistan. Showing commitment is one thing, actually implementing democratic reforms and providing basic democratic rights for example right to live in security, with basi amenities has been somewhat lacking.(helps people? No. Helps Zardari? Yes

He has picked the most agreeable justice as the head of election commission

err that is his duty not a priveledge. Its called doing your job. (helps people? Yes. Helps Zardari? Yes


Election will be held on time, fair and transparent. Anyone who is not satisfied with pppp, can go to pakistan, register his vote and cast for anti-ppp candidate :sheeda-talli

We shall see if this is true. If a party that has a poll rating of under 8% gets the majority of the vote then its fairness can be disputed as it is in other countries. for example the lib dems have a poll rating of 13%. If they were to acheive a majority eyebrows would be raised!

my responses in bold

overall you have failed to describe what benefits zardari has given the average joe in pakistan short of describing how zardari has simply benefited himself and his party.

you also miss a few other factors that need to be dealt with with regards to pakistan , in otehr words rampant nepotism and corruption amongst the politicians, their complete lack of will to shange anything to better the lives of an individual pakistani and their sheer indifference to basic policy matters. !

 

[Black Zero]

my responses in bold

overall you have failed to describe what benefits zardari has given the average joe in pakistan short of describing how zardari has simply benefited himself and his party.

you also miss a few other factors that need to be dealt with with regards to pakistan , in otehr words rampant nepotism and corruption amongst the politicians, their complete lack of will to shange anything to better the lives of an individual pakistani and their sheer indifference to basic policy matters. !

Common person will only be benefited if our institutions are strong.
Institutions can only become strong if we have proper democratic process.

Democracy is the only way out for Pakistani public...

and PPPP is the only party which is committed to democracy

People who think that Army/Technocrats and lotay can bring some change are ignorant.

I hope I made myself clear, how "commitment" is the related to welfare of state.

Regarding pakistani surveys,...worth nothing...

 

[shakil]

Army is the only party which is committed to democracy

Corrected. Albeit it is only this time because a strong Pakistan means more lavish life for our forces.

 

[Black Zero]

How did Kayani get promoted DG ISI to COAS?

Kayani did not try to sack Zardari provide evidence?

It was only a thought and must have been a reply to who he will want to become the leader which shows KAYANI is a patriot and that he aint after power.

Kayani, chief of Pakistan’s powerful military, told the US ambassador during a March 2009 meeting that he "might, however reluctantly," pressure Zardari to resign, according to a cable cited by NYT.
Gen Kayani was quoted as saying that he might support Asfandyar Wali Khan, leader of the Awami National League Party (ANP), as the new president — not Zardari’s arch-nemesis Nawaz Sharif.

Note: you can disagree with my analysis, but never doubt the facts i present.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Dude, BZ ....do you troll or you just incredibly insensitive and stupid!!!

Your views on Drone attacks, your support to Zardari is disturbing when it comes it from a pakistani after the sufferings both have caused on pakistani!!

And not to forget your fanatical support to Malik!!!!

I really hope you are trolling for timepass!!

 

[Black Zero]

Dude, BZ ....do you troll or you just incredibly insensitive and stupid!!!

Your views on Drone attacks, your support to Zardari is disturbing when it comes it from a pakistani after the sufferings both have caused on pakistani!!

And not to forget your fanatical support to Malik!!!!

I really hope you are trolling for timepass!!

do you have anything to add about zaradari in this thread?

If you want to talk about Drones or Malik, you can post in their respective threads and I might respond...

and if, you want to talk about me, then please create a thread ..and I may address your concerns...

Lastly, OP is written by an indian.

 

[IgnitedMind]

^^^
No, I was just talking to you. Sorry for going off topic...and

about Zardari...Well...I think fellow pakistani posters will do more justice..and he is biggest crook in the world..and primarly responsible for many things wrong in pakistani and its people suffering...

I have nothing to add for malik..malik does it for himself with the bat

and Article written by an Indian...so???

 

[amateurdentist]

^^^
No, I was just talking to you. Sorry for going off topic...and

about Zardari...Well...I think fellow pakistani posters will do more justice..and he is biggest crook in the world..and primarly responsible for many things wrong in pakistani and its people suffering...

I have nothing to add for malik..malik does it for himself with the bat

and Article written by an Indian...so???

you see that bolded part is irrelevant. he is mard-e-hurr and has spent 6 years in jail, therefore is a good man

 

[Black Zero]

^^^
No, I was just talking to you. Sorry for going off topic...and

about Zardari...Well...I think fellow pakistani posters will do more justice..and he is biggest crook in the world..and primarly responsible for many things wrong in pakistani and its people suffering...

I have nothing to add for malik..malik does it for himself with the bat

and Article written by an Indian...so???

Pakistani people are suffering for so many reasons, and politicians are not in top ten list.

Terrorism...Reason Pakistan Army and Agencies
Weak/non-functioning institutions...Reason dictatorship
Hatred for India...Army and army backed media
Gibraltar Mission, Kargil ... Reason Army
Corruption ... Reason Army, Judiciary and bureaucrats
High Inflation ... result of above

Zaradari spent decade in jail and not a single case proven against him (under several govts) ... but it's human nature to find someone to blame...

 

[amateurdentist]

Corruption ... Reason Army, Judiciary and bureaucrats
High Inflation ... result of above

so politicians are not corrupt. raja rental is a misnomer? ephidrine case? hajj scandal? railways? all BS right?

if everything is the fault of army/judiciary/beauracrats what the hell is the government doing?
what is the definition of a government

 

[Black Zero]

so politicians are not corrupt. raja rental is a misnomer? ephidrine case? hajj scandal? railways? all BS right?

if everything is the fault of army/judiciary/beauracrats what the hell is the government doing?
what is the definition of a government

Army decide our foreign and interior policy.
Army restored the Choudary-PCO
PCO-judges struck down the privatization of Steel Mill (costing billions every year)
Judges striking the laws passed by the parliment
Judges freeing the terrorists

We do not have good politicians,,,but if some got brain cancer (Army and agencies) he should not be worried about tooth-ache (politicians)

 

[amateurdentist]

Army decide our foreign and interior policy.
Army restored the Choudary-PCO
PCO-judges struck down the privatization of Steel Mill (costing billions every year)
Judges striking the laws passed by the parliment
Judges freeing the terrorists

We do not have good politicians,,,but if some got brain cancer (Army and agencies) he should not be worried about tooth-ache (politicians)

funny how you changed the topic from corruption
so no corruption from government right?
what do you think the common man is most worried about?
i think security, inflation,corruption. the government has a hand in all three.
granted the army is ery powerful and i am no fan but you make it out as if zardari has done nothing wrong to pakistan and all is armys fault. both are equally guilty.

 

[amateurdentist]

you see there is a reason why his popularity is at 8%
i dont know about you but corruption is the major ill of pakistan and zardari has taken it to new levels. how on earth can you deny that? dont know under what line of thinking is zardaris corruption not a flaw in the mans character, one that is dragging pakistan to hell

 

[SIMBA]

Oh BZ..please get yourself a brain scan please.

 

[IgnitedMind]

you see that bolded part is irrelevant. he is mard-e-hurr and has spent 6 years in jail, therefore is a good man

Sad man. even in India there are a lot of politicians who are adored...and have huge criminal back grounds!!!!

Mohd Azharudhin being elected is a shame...but Mohd Azharudhin is an absolute saint when compared to some people we elect...

Sub continent is a land of followers...Blind followers at that !!! Not leaders....

 

[DW44]

Oh BZ..please get yourself a brain scan please.

Last I checked, medical facilities(in Pakistan at least) don't deal with imaginary organs.

 

[Amar786]

Pakistani people are suffering for so many reasons, and politicians are not in top ten list.

Terrorism...Reason Pakistan Army and Agencies
Weak/non-functioning institutions...Reason dictatorship
Hatred for India...Army and army backed media
Gibraltar Mission, Kargil ... Reason Army
Corruption ... Reason Army, Judiciary and bureaucrats
High Inflation ... result of above

Zaradari spent decade in jail and not a single case proven against him (under several govts) ... but it's human nature to find someone to blame...

You should have heared imran said about baloch he said kayani said he needs the gov to solve the problem that what kayani said what has zaradri or ppp done nothing so don't blame the army.

As for weak institutions are concerned please go to imran and ask him why he backed mush in a coup in 1999 and ppp black zero.

As for hatred of india is concerned the whole country hates india ( i am not talking about if india is a threat or not).

The people of kashmir want independance they dont want indian rule over them.

Wow the strangest thing i have heared that the gov are not responsible for corruption our army, Judiciary and bureaucrats are. Our army is not low like zardari to sell there souls to the america and indian agencies for money like zardari and nawaz.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Last I checked, medical facilities(in Pakistan at least) don't deal with imaginary organs.

Aur yeh gaind boundry line ke bahar, buhat hi umda shot khela Tanzeel ne.

 

[Raz]

Aur yeh gaind boundry line ke bahar, buhat hi umda shot khela Tanzeel ne.

Balkey gaind stadium ke baahir jaa kar BZ ke sarr par takraaee.

 

[zaid65]

Oh BZ..please get yourself a brain scan please.

Why waste so much money and exposed our poor BZ on deadly radiation. A simple IQ test evaluation will do the job, but do we really need IQ test for a person who consider Shoaib Malik superior to Bradaman?

 

[Raz]

No doubt Zardari is a shrewd and ruthless politician. Partly a testament to why he's survived this long and I would say mostly because of the patience the army has afforded him, particularly after the OBL incident. For the sake of allowing the current government to complete its term, the country and people have been forced to pay an incredibly heavy price and it will take many, many years for recovery to take place.

 

[Raz]

Why waste so much money and exposed our poor BZ on deadly radiation. A simple IQ test evaluation will do the job, but do we really need IQ test for a person who consider Shoaib Malik superior to Bradaman?

And Zardari being the greatest thing since sliced bread

 

[SIMBA]

Last I checked, medical facilities(in Pakistan at least) don't deal with imaginary organs.

haha..you made my day

 

[SIMBA]

Why waste so much money and exposed our poor BZ on deadly radiation. A simple IQ test evaluation will do the job, but do we really need IQ test for a person who consider Shoaib Malik superior to Bradaman?

LOL.

He is typical PPP supporter...thick as they come.

Bhutto aaj b zinda hain!

 

[Black Zero]

You should have heared imran said about baloch he said kayani said he needs the gov to solve the problem that what kayani said what has zaradri or ppp done nothing so don't blame the army.

As for weak institutions are concerned please go to imran and ask him why he backed mush in a coup in 1999 and ppp black zero.

As for hatred of india is concerned the whole country hates india ( i am not talking about if india is a threat or not).

The people of kashmir want independance they dont want indian rule over them.

Wow the strangest thing i have heared that the gov are not responsible for corruption our army, Judiciary and bureaucrats are. Our army is not low like zardari to sell there souls to the america and indian agencies for money like zardari and nawaz.

First you accept that you were wrong so we can continue and I clear your latest misconceptions

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5066747&postcount=41

 

[Black Zero]

No doubt Zardari is a shrewd and ruthless politician. Partly a testament to why he's survived this long and I would say mostly because of the patience the army has afforded him, particularly after the OBL incident. For the sake of allowing the current government to complete its term, the country and people have been forced to pay an incredibly heavy price and it will take many, many years for recovery to take place.

Poor kiyani tried so much but just could not.
after all he is just a general...

 

[Amar786]

First you accept that you were wrong so we can continue and I clear your latest misconceptions

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5066747&postcount=41

he "might, however reluctantly," pressure Zardari to resign,

This what you wrote he didn't say he will he goes he might even if zardari didn't resign kayani had more than enough excuses to do a coup like memo gate issue etc. know you answer this question and the replies i gave to you on the previous thread.

 

[Amar786]

Poor kiyani tried so much but just could not.
after all he is just a general...

Mate you only bringing in half the arguments first you say kayani told america he wanted Asfandyar Wali Khan as the new president ok i agree wilileaks said that.

But you don't look at what wilileaks also said it said zardari told america to save him from kayani which you do not believe. It was Kayani generosity had it been mushy ppp would have packed there bags long time ago which is the same point i made ealier people don't give credit to people when it is due you only look at the negative side of people how many pro gov people have gave kayani credit.

 

[Black Zero]

Mate you only bringing in half the arguments first you say kayani told america he wanted Asfandyar Wali Khan as the new president ok i agree wilileaks said that.

But you don't look at what wilileaks also said it said zardari told america to save him from kayani which you do not believe. It was Kayani generosity had it been mushy ppp would have packed there bags long time ago which is the same point i made ealier people don't give credit to people when it is due you only look at the negative side of people how many pro gov people have gave kayani credit.

who says i do not believe...\

why shouldn't zaradari use usa card?


regarding 2nd part, it was actually after bay nazir's approval, kyani was given coas post...

kyani worked under bay nazir in old days...

 

[Amar786]

who says i do not believe...\

why shouldn't zaradari use usa card?


regarding 2nd part, it was actually after bay nazir's approval, kyani was given coas post...

kyani worked under bay nazir in old days...

“Kayani is a true General of the soldiers”

BELIEVE it or not, the non-commissioned soldiers love Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani as a 'true' General of the soldiers!

Some people had been complaining that The Terrorland group blogs were very harsh on Gen. Kayani and his 'cronies' (although the criticism is in good faith for improvement in the traditional criminal behavior so that there is peace and prosperity in Pakistan).

Critics accuse bloggers especially Habib Sulemani as working against the "national interest" of Pakistan. They often say: “You’re pointing out his (Kayani's) 'negatives' but ignore his 'positives' as a 'soldier' and the 'son' of a soldier.”



The face-to-face interaction with some Facebook-generation soldiers of the Pakistan Army, unexpectedly gave birth to this post! These common soldiers claimed that they had been serving the nation with grace and dignity since Gen. Kayani took over as Army Chief.

“Kayani is a true General of the soldiers,” said a non-commissioned member of the Pakistan Army. “He is the son of a Subadar (non-commissioned officer) and is well aware of the difficulties of the common solders.”

Gen. Kayani has not forgotten his modest upbringing in a village near Rawalpindi, sources said, and that is why he has given more facilities to the common soldiers than any of his predecessors since 1947. He is the first Army Chief who is the son of a common soldier not a commissioned officer or from a civil services, business or political background.

The difference between the commissioned officers and common soldiers has become almost invisible. “The tyrant behavior and abusive language of the Kakul-trained officers is also changing,” said a soldier. “We can do anything we’re ordered to do—we can sacrifice our lives without any judgment of a right or wrong cause—but in reward we want respect and dignity as human being—nothing else.”

"It means The Kakul Syndrome is no more there?"

“I don’t know,” said the solder, “if any commissioned officer is not happy with him (Gen. Kayani), it may be because he is a commoner and works for the welfare of the common soldiers. Earlier, we used to wear a low quality uniform but now the officers and solders are given the same good quality uniforms.”

Here are some of the facilities a sepoy (the lowest grade common combatant soldier) is being given since Gen Kayani took over as Army Chief:

1- Salary has doubled from Rs.10,000 to Rs. 20,000 (approximately) and the increase has been added in the basic salary.
2- The standard of family residential areas at cantonments has been improved and “now there is almost no difference between an officers' colony and a soldiers' colony".
3- Ration (food) has been doubled: for example three breads per solder has been increase to six breads per soldier at a time.
4- A solder is given high quality uniform or Rs. 2,600 in cash to purchase the military outfit and the same amount is given to a four-star general as well.
5- Monthly pension of a retired soldier has also been doubled from Rs. 3,000 to Rs. 6,000 (approximately). Rs. 6,000 is the minimum wage in Pakistan.
6- The amount of commute at retirement has doubled from Rs. 300,000 to Rs. 600,000 (approximately).
7- Residential plots are also being given to non-commissioned officers (from hawaldar onwards).
8- The facilities and benefits for the martyred or disabled soldiers have been multiplied in the same way.

The salary of the non-commissioned officers, from Lance Naik to Subadar Major, has increased in the same way. Their salary is now around Rs. 50,000.

What would be the consequences of the "political rule" of Gen Kayani for Pakistan, only time can give any judgment in this regard! But, so far, his two-time period (hope there is not yet another 'extention' in the future) as the Army Chief has made the common soldiers of the Pakistan Army very happy! Or this is what the above mentioned intearation shows. Allah knows the reality about the one million military men in our terror-hit Islamic Republic of Pakistan!


Pakistan army clasify Kayani as a blessing to pakistan unlike you people.

 

[Amar786]

who says i do not believe...\

why shouldn't zaradari use usa card?


regarding 2nd part, it was actually after bay nazir's approval, kyani was given coas post...

kyani worked under bay nazir in old days...

You claimed zardari is good enough to hold the army back but know you are admitting the army is to good for zardari.

In the above post i have proved to you how much the army loves kayani if zardari has the balls like MORSI of Egypt a coup is on the way because even America knows pakistan army is with Kayani and so is the ISI.

I know that he worked under benazir before but he stayed out of poltics like he is doing right which shows he always stayed out of poltics he only comes in when the gov leaves no choice and the army comes in to make a decision in the country's favour which our leader never make.

Kayani's first move as army chief was to visit the front lines in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). Spending the Muslim holiday of Eid not with his family, but rather with his soldiers prompted American military officials to praise him as a "soldier’s soldier." A U.S. report quoted retired Pakistani military officials as saying that in "an army deeply enmeshed in Pakistani politics, General Kayani had declined to ally himself with any political groups". As a Brigadier, he briefly served as a military aide to Benazir Bhutto during her first term as prime minister in the late 1980s, but has stayed away from politicians since then.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfaq_Parvez_Kayani#Perceptions_of_Kayani_as_COAS

 

[Black Zero]

it's open now that Zardari offered pml-n the pm-ship

great gesture of good will by Zardari ...

who could have imagined .... this kind of offer in Pk-politics...

 

[Amar786]

it's open now that Zardari offered pml-n the pm-ship

great gesture of good will by Zardari ...

who could have imagined .... this kind of offer in Pk-politics...

He offered it so he could save his job by having more public with him. But nawaz knew if a coup happened then he to will be finished.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Fabulous zardari's team member walks out coz she cant answer any questions

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ug-jzK8kBxk?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Black Zero]

Fabulous zardari's team member walks out coz she cant answer any questions

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ug-jzK8kBxk?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

i like the name of the show

you missing faisal?

 

[Goggy]

3

 

[Black Zero]

 

[zaid65]

Fabulous zardari's team member walks out coz she cant answer any questions

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ug-jzK8kBxk?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Honestly, I would have done the same thing.

The anchor was annoying, rude and was trying to insult her. I am glad she left and did not answer any stupid questions.

 

[zaid65]

Nice photo session.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

Honestly, I would have done the same thing.

The anchor was annoying, rude and was trying to insult her. I am glad she left and did not answer any stupid questions.

I disagree. He was asking her what has PPPdone for Sindh. Nothing in there that's insulting.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

I disagree. He was asking her what has PPPdone for Sindh. Nothing in there that's insulting.

His tone was disrespecting .His questions weren't really specific.He was repeating the same thing over and over again.There is a way of asking a question what he was doing was straight up Ilzam tarashi and badtameezi.

 

[Black Zero]

yes leaders should make stands for example against targeted killings, drone attacks, terrorism, wot, poverty, lack of education, lack of healthcare, oh yes leaders should make a stand..also against ethnic cleansing for example in the 80's in karachi, and in sindh in the 70's and so forth..yes leaders should make a stand..

just wondering where your leaders are were and will be?? i think i know where..sunny dubai perhaps?

You try to divert topic to PPP in every thread, why do not you use any PPP related thread for your q/concerns...?

Re: Terrorism, Bay Nazir was firm to eradicate terrorism from Pakistan...
and even after several attempts at her life, she was steadfast on her stand.

PPP is the party of shaheeds...
PPP is the name of sacrifices...

you just can't compare cowards ik ) to PPP

 

[the Great Khan]

You try to divert topic to PPP in every thread, why do not you use any PPP related thread for your q/concerns...?

Re: Terrorism, Bay Nazir was firm to eradicate terrorism from Pakistan...
and even after several attempts at her life, she was steadfast on her stand.

PPP is the party of shaheeds...
PPP is the name of sacrifices...

you just can't compare cowards ik ) to PPP

because your party is in charge and you have no excuses except empty slogans..!! exposed utterly!!