What's new

THE GREATEST Master Blaster Viv Richards or the machine Don Bradman – Who is the greatest batsman?

Bewal Express

Test Star
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Runs
39,102
In a new series, two writers(Michael Atherton and John Westerby) debate the best in sport. Today, two stars with contrasting styles at the crease

THE GREATEST
Master blaster Viv Richards or the machine Don Bradman – who is the greatest batsman?
In a new series, two writers debate the best in sport. Today, two stars with contrasting styles at the crease

Friday March 20 2020, 5.00pm, The Times
Viv Richards
By Mike Atherton

Something hurt he bad, you could see,

As if he self alone could end we slavery!

In the words of the Caribbean poet Ian McDonald, Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards went out to bat as if he alone could turn back slavery. Many batsmen have scored more runs at a higher average, some could claim to have had more influence on an era, and style is in the eye of the beholder, but has any batsman had a more profound influence on the teams he played for?

As if lifted by a cricketing high tide, his teams rose proudly: Antigua, Combined Leeward and Windward Islands, Somerset and, of course, West Indies, who were unbeaten under his captaincy and who were unofficial world champions for the length and breadth of his career. His impact on each was profound.

I’m just about old enough to remember when he made a nation conscious of him, during that long, hot summer of 1976. Walking — sauntering, rather — proudly to the crease, eyes fixed on the horizon not the ground, jaw fiercely chewing gum, maroon cap fixed defiantly to his head, the peak ever so slightly tilted upwards, SS Jumbo ready for destruction. At Trent Bridge (232) and the Oval (291), in particular, England’s bowlers were pummelled. He plundered 829 runs in four Tests in that summer alone.

For a boy who had been brought up on the importance of a high left elbow and a straight bat, the way he thrust his front leg towards off stump — hovering in the air just as the bowler released the ball — and then whipped the ball through mid-wicket was eye-opening. I’d never really seen anyone play like that before.
Like many of the greats, he was entirely self-taught, stamping his own technique and style on a game that has always allowed for, and encouraged, self-expression. According to his younger brother, this signature stroke through mid-wicket was shaped by boyhood games in the local park, when the necessity was to avoid an angry fisherman who would stand behind the bowler’s arm and refuse to return the ball. So was the seed of bowlers’ destruction sewn


I played against him towards the end of his career when, possibly, the eyes weren’t quite as sharp, but there was no loss of pride and, therefore, performance. Cricket for him, you sensed, was a vehicle for something bigger; to show that the black man could be the equal or better than anyone in any field of his choosing. On such a mission, and with such a sense of purpose, how could advancing years possibly matter?

Comparative judgment across generations is almost impossible because of the advent of helmets and other protective equipment. We don’t know how some modern greats would have coped with the knowledge that you could be seriously hurt, something that earlier generations carried with them daily. Equally, Don Bradman’s average during Bodyline (still 57, but way down on his overall Test average) suggests the limitations that would be imposed on the best by, say, the four-pronged West Indies attack of the 1980s.
Richards, the scorer of 8,540 Test runs, never stooped to wearing a helmet despite facing some of the fast-bowling greats
Richards, the scorer of 8,540 Test runs, never stooped to wearing a helmet despite facing some of the fast-bowling greats

We know how Richards would have coped because he never stooped to wearing a helmet, as the bare-headed statue outside the ground named after him in Antigua suggests. He straddled eras: batting, like the champions of earlier generations, without protection but in a modern era when bowling became more hostile and aggressive. It helped, of course, that the fastest and nastiest were on his side, but neither against Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson, nor against the West Indies fast bowlers in the domestic Caribbean competition, did Richards bow down.

There are those who will nominate WG Grace, Jack Hobbs, Wally Hammond, George Headley, Garry Sobers, Sachin Tendulkar, Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock and, of course, Bradman as the best batsman of them all, but I’m happy with my choice, as were other writers who chose Richards as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the 20th Century. For a combination of charisma, style, destructivity, productivity and influence, he stands tall.


Don Bradman
By John Westerby
Even in a team sport that places such precise values on the contributions made by its individual players, cricket’s statistics can never tell the whole story. There is always a context that the bare numbers cannot convey, a variegated backdrop shaped by the conditions, the quality of the opposition, the state of the game and more.

Yet there is one statistic so startling that tells a particularly powerful tale. Don Bradman's Test batting average of 99.94 is the most famous stat in the sport and, more than 70 years after he played his final game for Australia, he is still so far ahead of the rest of the field it almost defies comprehension. In the list of highest Test averages, second place is held, at present, by Marnus Labuschagne, with 63.43 from 14 Tests, or Steve Smith at 62.84 if you prefer someone with a longer career.

Either way, this suggests that Bradman is more than 50 per cent better than any other batsman to have played the game. Whether this is true or not, the gap between Bradman and the rest is so vast that, in any debate about the game’s greatest batsman, that figure of 99.94 dominates the discussion in the same way that Bradman subjugated the bowling attacks he faced. “The greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket,” John Woodcock wrote of Bradman, “indeed in the history of all ball games.”
Sir Don Bradman salutes the Oval crowd during his 232 that helped Australia regain the Ashes in 1930
Sir Don Bradman salutes the Oval crowd during his 232 that helped Australia regain the Ashes in 1930
GETTY IMAGES
As ever, there is a bigger picture to paint here, but in fact the statistics can only hint at the impact Bradman's batting had on the wider game, from the Ashes series of 1930. In that English summer, he made 131 at Trent Bridge, 254 at Lord’s, an astonishing 334 at Headingley, including 309 on the first day, and 232 at the Oval, for a total of 974 runs in a five-match series, a record that still stands. He was 21 at the time and would remain the pivotal character in Ashes contests until 1948.

He arrived at a time when Australia, as a young and uncertain nation, buffeted in recent decades by the First World War and the Great Depression, was on the lookout for homegrown heroes. We should not, perhaps, overstate the contributions made by a sportsman amid such traumas, but Bradman's unparalleled feats undoubtedly played a huge part in helping Australia regain its sense of selfhood, of placing sport at the centre of the nation’s identity, where it remains today.
In an effort to curb this force of nature, England created the biggest controversy the game has known, with the advent of Bodyline tactics in the 1932-33 series. By his own extraordinary standards, Bradman had an ordinary series, averaging a mere 56.57 and scoring only one hundred in the series. Does this indicate that he would not have been as dominant in a later era, when short-pitched bowling was more commonplace? The chances are that he would have adapted.

Standing 5ft 7in, his defining characteristics as a batsman were a stillness in his stance, the quickness of his eye and then the nimbleness of his footwork. Watch footage of him in action and you will be struck by how early he is in position for the stroke, particularly for the pull, for which his back foot would move well outside the off stump, enabling him to place the ball to his satisfaction and roll the wrists to keep it on the floor. There were only six sixes among his 6,996 Test runs

But there was also an imperturbable concentration, so often overlooked as a quality to be prized in a batsman. Bradman would accumulate remorselessly, day after day, his focus never wavering.

He might have lacked the swagger of Viv Richards, the aesthetics of Brian Lara, the power of Barry Richards. But no batsman in history could be relied on to score runs so regularly, to swing a game in his team’s direction. Which, ultimately, is what batting is all about.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...bradman-who-is-the-greatest-batsman-ptxmj07n6
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bradman.

Richards was in the same league as Bradman’s contemporaries Headley, Ponsford, Hammond, Hutton and Compton.
 
I saw Richards play and Athertons description is very accurate. Richards was a warrior and although their have been more hungrier players like Tendulkar, more technically correct players such as Greg Chappell but Richards had the swagger and courage that few have had in my lifetime
 
Bradman.

Richards was in the same league as Bradman’s contemporaries Headley, Ponsford, Hammond, Hutton and Compton.

Ponsford is not even in the league of Hayden let alone Richards.
 
You cant dismiss his stats but Bradman faced few any bowlers over 85mph.

this gets thrown out all the time, there are cricketing leagues of various competitiveness all over the world, yet even in the weakest first class leagues (correct me if i'm wrong) no batsmen has ever averaged significantly above 70, or come close to his 300/200/100/50 conversion ratios.

the technical ability of top level sportsmen is not massively different, but what sets apart test batsmen from each other is the frequency of mistakes they make, and ostensibly bradman made far less mistakes than anyone.

if steve smith was playing in the 30s, given his technique, armchair experts would have had a field day ridiculing the standards of cricket that allowed a batsmen like him average 63. with his bat lift and standing in front of the stumps, i guarantee it people would have said modern bowlers would have been getting him lbw with ease.

bradman is another league to all other batsmen, if not technically, than certainly mentally. viv is pbly my favourite cricketer for what he did on and off the field, but if i wanted one test batsmen in my team, itd be bradman.
 
this gets thrown out all the time, there are cricketing leagues of various competitiveness all over the world, yet even in the weakest first class leagues (correct me if i'm wrong) no batsmen has ever averaged significantly above 70, or come close to his 300/200/100/50 conversion ratios.

the technical ability of top level sportsmen is not massively different, but what sets apart test batsmen from each other is the frequency of mistakes they make, and ostensibly bradman made far less mistakes than anyone.

if steve smith was playing in the 30s, given his technique, armchair experts would have had a field day ridiculing the standards of cricket that allowed a batsmen like him average 63. with his bat lift and standing in front of the stumps, i guarantee it people would have said modern bowlers would have been getting him lbw with ease.

bradman is another league to all other batsmen, if not technically, than certainly mentally. viv is pbly my favourite cricketer for what he did on and off the field, but if i wanted one test batsmen in my team, itd be bradman.

As none of us saw him play, i agree that the stats are just out of this world.
 
the stats are nothing to compare with. they are out of this world

But if you extrapolate Bradman into the Richards era with no limit on bouncers and some incredibly quick bowlers, then he wouldnt have averaged more than the likes of Richards and Chappell.
 
Its impossible to judge how would peak Bradman would have played in current era.

There is a interesting anecdote about him which does indicates he was special.

Jeff Thomson’s menacing pace instilled fear in the minds of the best batters in the world. There were many who even didn’t want to face him. But that wasn’t the case with a 68-year-old Bradman, who had retired from the game almost 30 years ago. On a rest day during the India tour of Australia in 1977-78, Bradman at Adelaide decided to face Thomson. The then Indian captain Bishan Singh Bedi, who witnessed it, recalls, “What we saw was sheer magic. The grand old man’s positioning was impeccable. And he was without any pads or gloves or the damned box. Thommo let one go on the leg and middle and was promptly on-driven effortlessly.” He then said the bowler, “This will teach you to have a mid-on for me, son!”

Here’s Thomson recalling the incident in an interview with Espncricinfo.com. “I was bowling only leg-spin to him, but he had a couple of young blokes trying to get him out. With no pads, no nothing … for a 68-year-old, he belted the hell out of them on a turf wicket. And he hadn’t batted for 20 years. I went back in and said, ‘Why isn’t this bas****ed playing with us tomorrow?’ That’s how good I thought he was.”
 
From all the video evidences i have seen, the quality of cricket was abysmal during bradmans time, the bowlers were saurav ganguly level trundlers and spinners were too slow.
Bradman, hobbs, grace should all be included in hall of fame but that's it.
People try to bring old articles in discussion but for me those videos are more than enough to know the difference in quality.
If bradman played in this era with that technique and reflexes he would be nothing more than an average joe.


There should be no doubt that current players are much more advanced in everything.

So according to me viv richards is better than bradman bcoz if both play against similar quality teams viv Richards will outscore bradman easily.
But richards isnt GOAT, he wasnt a hungry run accumulator or an immovable obstacle for the bowlers.

Steve Smith
Sachin
Lara
Gavaskar
Richards

This is my ranking.
Steve's rank can rise or fall as his career progresses.
For me steve smith is the ultimate test batsman.
 
Bradman is the best of all time. Viv is second. After that, it is Tendulkar, Kohli, Smith (Steven Smith), and Lara.
 
Bradman was way ahead of his time and Viv was also ahead of his time, however, not as ahead as Bradman.

Quality of cricket improves with time, it will be an assumption that Bradman would have improved his game exponentially to modern standards and be ahead of everyone else as he was in his time. What if Bradman's ceiling was facing 115kph bowlers?

Some players are way ahead of their peers in school level or college level, however, when the bar is raised they can't cope up. What if bradman would have faced same in modern era??

An alternate point is, what if Bradman did improve his game exponentially and be ahead of everyone else in modern cricket as he was during his time?

We can only speculate as there are no facts available.

Only one thing is for certain both are legends of their era and should be respected.

Comparing them is not right and the comparison is filled with biases and huge speculation and assumptions and 0 facts.
 
To call someone greatest, you could use several parameters from average to total runs scored to strike rate to 'performing when chips are down' to entertainment factor or a combination of all. I don't think anyone surpasses Richards if you look at all these things in combination. The fact that his strike rate was 90+ in ODIs in times when even 70 was a great strike rate speaks volumes about how much ahead of others he was. IMO viv was the best world has ever seen.
 
As a test batsman Bradman is the best by far, and Richards is the GOAT ODI batsmen

Bradman's average speaks for itself, and was a result of his determination and focus, qualities which show in any era
 
You cant dismiss his stats but Bradman faced few any bowlers over 85mph.

He also batted on uncovered wickets where there was far more lateral movement, spin and variable bounce than Richards ever faced.
 
Its impossible to judge how would peak Bradman would have played in current era.

There is a interesting anecdote about him which does indicates he was special.

Jeff Thomson’s menacing pace instilled fear in the minds of the best batters in the world. There were many who even didn’t want to face him. But that wasn’t the case with a 68-year-old Bradman, who had retired from the game almost 30 years ago. On a rest day during the India tour of Australia in 1977-78, Bradman at Adelaide decided to face Thomson. The then Indian captain Bishan Singh Bedi, who witnessed it, recalls, “What we saw was sheer magic. The grand old man’s positioning was impeccable. And he was without any pads or gloves or the damned box. Thommo let one go on the leg and middle and was promptly on-driven effortlessly.” He then said the bowler, “This will teach you to have a mid-on for me, son!”

Here’s Thomson recalling the incident in an interview with Espncricinfo.com. “I was bowling only leg-spin to him, but he had a couple of young blokes trying to get him out. With no pads, no nothing … for a 68-year-old, he belted the hell out of them on a turf wicket. And he hadn’t batted for 20 years. I went back in and said, ‘Why isn’t this bas****ed playing with us tomorrow?’ That’s how good I thought he was.”

He was a superman.
 
He also batted on uncovered wickets where there was far more lateral movement, spin and variable bounce than Richards ever faced.

But the guys he faced were Len Shackletons pace and uncovered wickets weren't always sticky dogs.
 
But the guys he faced were Len Shackletons pace and uncovered wickets weren't always sticky dogs.

They weren’t all stickies but there was a greater variety of wickets in those days. Fliers, greentops, minefields and bunsens, and you would meet them all in an English summer.

Larwood was certainly quick even in a modern sense and Eddie Gilbert even quicker according to Bradman himself.
Humans just don’t get that much better in just eighty years. There is sports science and better nutrition, but Usain Bolt is still only 10% faster than Jesse Owens.
 
"You knew he was coming".

This is what describes Viv Richards.

And only those can understand the meaning and feeling of this hair raising moment, who have seen Viv at his peak.

"The outgoing batsman would already have disappeared into the pavilion, and the expectation of what was to follow filled the air. Viv kept you waiting... time to ponder. Then he appeared, sauntering, swaggering, arms windmilling slowly. He would take guard, and then, head tilted back slightly and cudding his gum, he would walk a few paces down the pitch to tap it while looking the bowler in the eye. It was calculated menace and magnificent theatre from arguably the most devastating batsman of all time."

The above was taken from cricinfo and this feeling is something that cannot be captured by jumping into scorebooks and juggling with statistics.

Richards was something else.
 
They weren’t all stickies but there was a greater variety of wickets in those days. Fliers, greentops, minefields and bunsens, and you would meet them all in an English summer.

Larwood was certainly quick even in a modern sense and Eddie Gilbert even quicker according to Bradman himself.
Humans just don’t get that much better in just eighty years. There is sports science and better nutrition, but Usain Bolt is still only 10% faster than Jesse Owens.

Bradman was a great player, no player with those stats can be described as otherwise but bar the body line series his life wasn't on the line, Richards was facing guys bowling 90mph with no limits on bouncer on regular basis and he took them on. For me there is no contest.
 
From all the video evidences i have seen, the quality of cricket was abysmal during bradmans time, the bowlers were saurav ganguly level trundlers and spinners were too slow.
Bradman, hobbs, grace should all be included in hall of fame but that's it.
People try to bring old articles in discussion but for me those videos are more than enough to know the difference in quality.
If bradman played in this era with that technique and reflexes he would be nothing more than an average joe.


There should be no doubt that current players are much more advanced in everything.

So according to me viv richards is better than bradman bcoz if both play against similar quality teams viv Richards will outscore bradman easily.
But richards isnt GOAT, he wasnt a hungry run accumulator or an immovable obstacle for the bowlers.

Steve Smith
Sachin
Lara
Gavaskar
Richards

This is my ranking.
Steve's rank can rise or fall as his career progresses.
For me steve smith is the ultimate test batsman.

LOL you logic has an ultimate flaw which is horses for courses. Every player should be assessed with how he did in his era / times same as any human beings.

It is expected in all acts of life that people are going to get better and better at anything continuous due to previous knowledge research.
 
Don Bradman was great but from an era that can scarcely be remembered, and most definitely not remembered. He played England (and no one else?) And only played across 10 venues, against bowlers without the athleticism and variety of today. That is no fault of his home and he would probably have been great in any era.

Viv Richard's played in ab era where the modern game was taking shape and then did take shape. He straddled both eras and was phenomenal against a series of pace, swing, turn and reverse swing. My uncle who watched him play several times said, "It was happening, an event whenever he came to bat. Tendulkar bhi essa nahi ta". That says something.

Question is, are the modern guard greater or barely on par?
 
No. I read books. The wickets started to be covered in the 1960s.

Those are opinions at the end of the day. There are many exaggerated claims.I have read of ball bouncing beyond the boundary behind the batsman straight after bouncing on the pitch.Tell me is it probable?

Everything is glorified of that era
 
They weren’t all stickies but there was a greater variety of wickets in those days. Fliers, greentops, minefields and bunsens, and you would meet them all in an English summer.

Larwood was certainly quick even in a modern sense and Eddie Gilbert even quicker according to Bradman himself.
Humans just don’t get that much better in just eighty years. There is sports science and better nutrition, but Usain Bolt is still only 10% faster than Jesse Owens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awz2KyMzELg

Hear about Larwood the speed king at about 1.30 mark
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awz2KyMzELg

Hear about Larwood the speed king at about 1.30 mark

This is nonsense. They just plucked that figure out of the air. They had no technology to measure speed accurately over a short distance.

Look at footage of Larwood - more specifically look at how far back the keeper and slips are.

Some sports scientists at an Aussie university recently deduced that Larwood was at 90 mph.
 
Last edited:
Those are opinions at the end of the day. There are many exaggerated claims.I have read of ball bouncing beyond the boundary behind the batsman straight after bouncing on the pitch.Tell me is it probable?

Everything is glorified of that era

Where was it supposed to have happened? Thomson bowled a bouncer which cleared the keeper and hit the sight screen on the full, so I dare say Larwood could have done the same on a small ground. Grounds in those days were not all like the roads of today. There were ridges in some pitches - Lord’s had one at the Pavillion end until the strip was dug up in the nineties - so this fabled ball could have steeplejacked off a ridge.
 
Last edited:
Larwood was in high 140's according to this video.
 
Sir Isaac Vivian Alaxander Richards.

Have not seen a batsman like him.
Complete and utter domination of bowlers.
 
Sachin Tendulkar is universally accepted as the greatest batsman of all time, including Sir Don himself.
 
The other thing about Richards is that the Super test stats are not included. From what has been said by many- it is something of the toughest cricket played.
 
Bradman is head & shoulders above any batsman in any era, in a time zero world. His distant second contemporary was Hammond who, himself is a bonafide ATG and he was like 60% of Bradman!!!! Second to Bradman is JB Hobbs, whose comparative stats were actually equally impressive like Bradman - he played in a different era and that time he averaged over 65 till his 40s (he played till 1930, at 48 with his best 6 years gone to WWI, like Bradman’s 6 years to WW2) in that era when Clem Hill, Vic Trumper, Archie McLaren, Warren Beardsley struggled to manage 40.

This is in a time zero world, comparing a player relative to his era.....

I have a different theory for cricket - it’s an English game, played by only few former British colonies and English cricket glory ended with the war - in AT English team only two players debuted after 1960 are there to make the selection certain (Botham and Knott), rest all ended their career before the game went into professional era, roughly from late 1960s to early 1970s. Hence, English dominant cricket media always try to glorify the ancient era of cricket when they were relevant. It’s their game and if I make teams with players from 1960s and afterwards, England will get their back side whipped by most of their former colonies in serious cricket - Australia, West Indies, South Africa, Pakistan, India for sure, even NZ & SRL will give a great fight ..... hence, the fall back strategy is to glorify pre war era which somewhat preserves their supremacy, and Bradman indeed was head & shoulders above in that context.

Otherwise, I haven’t seen in any other sports, former greats are glorified as such like cricket. Respect for former greats will always be there, but the way cricket of the joke era (pardon my French) is glorified, I don’t see in any other sports - at least not in those sports I closely follow - NBA, NFL, MLB, Soccer, Tennis, Snooker, Golf, Chess, Athletics, Volleyball.

I still watch old time soccer & tennis games from 1930s, 40s, for a comic relief (just to be amused to read that old timers call Silvio Piola, Liodenous, Guilarmo Stabile, Don Budge, Fred Perry ... ALL TIME GREAT!!!) - don’t know why cricket is thought to be different that it has a Benjamin Button syndrome - the earlier it goes into history... the better it was. At this rate, we have to believe that when County Championship started in 1895, every County had one Imran, Viv, Warne, Murali, Knott & Wasim in their line-up, well almost.....
 
Last edited:
Back
Top