The melting Arctic is a horror story — Why doesn’t anyone care?

[good guy]

Last week, scientists learned that 40-foot piles of compacted sea ice — some of the oldest and most durable clusters in the Arctic — are breaking away from the coast of Greenland and drifting out to sea. One meteorologist called it “scary,” but it was hardly unexpected. As the earth’s climate heats up, the idea of a “blue Arctic” — that is, the disappearance of sea ice for at least part of the year, leaving only open ocean — has long been predicted by climate scientists. Some researchers believe that you might be able to kayak to the North Pole as early as 2030; others think the sea ice might last until 2040 or longer.

The thawing of the Arctic is one of the biggest stories of our time, even if it is playing out at a pace and in a way that virtually guarantees most people will pay little or no attention to it. What’s going on is not a future concern, or simply a tragedy for polar bears; the warming Arctic is already having a tremendous impact on our world and may help explain much of the extreme weather this summer, especially in the U.S. and in western Europe. To oversimplify this only slightly, you could argue that this summer’s historic wildfires in California were predicted by heat in the Arctic.

In recent years, the Arctic has been heating up faster than any other place on the planet. (Last winter, temperatures in the Arctic were 45 degrees Fahrenheit above normal). Last week, German climate scientist Stefan Rahmstorf wrote an excellent piece in Politico explaining why the warming Arctic is not only causing ice to melt, but changing the weather dynamics for the entire planet. “That global warming leads to more heat extremes is not rocket science and has been confirmed by global data analysis,” Rahmstorf wrote. He pointed out that we are seeing five times more monthly heat records — such as “hottest July on record in California” — than we would in a stable climate. More heat means drier soils, causing more drought and wildfires. It also means more extreme rain, given that a warmer atmosphere can suck up and then release more moisture (a global increase in rainfall records is well-documented in weather station data).

But then Rahmstorf made a crucial point: “It’s not just that the weather is doing what it always does, except at a higher temperature level. Rather, there is growing evidence that the dynamics of weather itself are changing.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/arctic-ice-melting-716647/

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

We generally don't really care about the environment because we've seen growth all our life from day one and now we believe that all resources are limitless and things will continue on this spiral. A new iphone will be launched every few months, computers will continue to get faster, food will continue to become more and more varied and in abundance.

We are a generation who have seen resources only go in one direction (generally) and that's why we don't really think a reverse is possible. Those struck in war-ridden areas already have their hands full and they can't really think about such issues (and no one should blame them for this).

The worlds changing, changing faster than ever, and all predictions say we need to stop but guess what we are doing - creating more weapons, increasing budget spending, creating space force, building walls, creating more smartphones, consuming more plastic, digging more and more natural resources, and all of that.

So quoting Matrix and Mr. Anderson

"I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."

 

[batnbowl]

Europe seems to be the only one that actually cares - the rest unfortunately continue with their "development" plans...

 

[slipcatch]

dumping garbage (plastic) is probably at the same level of a horror story.

 

[Pakpak]

Europe seems to be the only one that actually cares - the rest unfortunately continue with their "development" plans...

They only care as they have decimated their own coil and fossil fuel reserves, built up their nations after plundering other nations' wealth and now when they're settled and can afford to be 'green' then its easy caring.

 

[Robert]

The UN has held three conventions on the subject of climate change, and Europe is making sweeping changes in terms of green power, low consumption appliances, waste management, carbon sequestration and the circular economy.

The USA is going backwards.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They only care as they have decimated their own coil and fossil fuel reserves, built up their nations after plundering other nations' wealth and now when they're settled and can afford to be 'green' then its easy caring.

I suppose this is the downside of the free market economy, the bottom line is always going to be benefit for us now is going to take precedence over welfare of future generations, especially if it's something which isn't immediately visible.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Just what can we actually do to stop it? It’s all well and good folks in Europe ditching their petrol/diesel cars for electric ones, or cutting back on flights etc but it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what’s going on in China, India etc- they are chucking out so much co2 that what we do in certain parts of the west is meaningless.

And who can blame them - they have and will drag hundreds of millions of people out of poverty due to industrialisation, development etc - are we really going to stand back and say “hey guys why don’t you slow the growth a bit because you’re generating too much co2 - and if more poor people remain poor then so be it”.

 

[batnbowl]

They only care as they have decimated their own coil and fossil fuel reserves, built up their nations after plundering other nations' wealth and now when they're settled and can afford to be 'green' then its easy caring.

I see that you are playing the - "they did it so we can do it too" line of argument, what solution are you proposing?

 

[Pakpak]

I see that you are playing the - "they did it so we can do it too" line of argument, what solution are you proposing?

There is no solution it'll simply happen. My point was its easy to sit while you are a loaded nation on the back of ruining your own fossil fuel reserves but you can afford to. Other countries can't. Poor countries in Africa can't afford to be green.

 

[Robert]

Just what can we actually do to stop it? It’s all well and good folks in Europe ditching their petrol/diesel cars for electric ones, or cutting back on flights etc but it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what’s going on in China, India etc- they are chucking out so much co2 that what we do in certain parts of the west is meaningless.

And who can blame them - they have and will drag hundreds of millions of people out of poverty due to industrialisation, development etc - are we really going to stand back and say “hey guys why don’t you slow the growth a bit because you’re generating too much co2 - and if more poor people remain poor then so be it”.

It’s not just about carbon, but pollution too. Europe can set an example of adoption of the circular economy to the developing nations.

 

[Robert]

Poor countries in Africa can't afford to be green.

Why not? Strong sun all year round, massive scope for solar power.

 

[Pakpak]

Why not? Strong sun all year round, massive scope for solar power.

With what money? Its not easy to set up or establish on a mass scale.

 

[Robert]

With what money? Its not easy to set up or establish on a mass scale.

This is where European companies comes in. They want to meet their triple bottom line of profit, planet and people. African states must put measures in place to become attractive to them as investors.

But there are simple things that can be done. An oil drum on a roof with a little solar cell gives a house hot water. You see these all over Turkey who are ahead of the richer EU states in this regard.

 

[Pakpak]

This is where European companies comes in. They want to meet their triple bottom line of profit, planet and people. African states must put measures in place to become attractive to them as investors.

But there are simple things that can be done. An oil drum on a roof with a little solar cell gives a house hot water. You see these all over Turkey who are ahead of the richer EU states in this regard.

African nations are battered with civil wars, corruption, never-ending disease to care about attracting investors for solar power.

All of these things look good, but are of very little use practically.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A world order based on communism might be the only logical answer, although obviously a less innovative and exciting one for those of us who are used to the luxuries of the first world.

 

[Robert]

African nations are battered with civil wars, corruption, never-ending disease to care about attracting investors for solar power.

Not all African nations have high corruption indices and civil wars, though such factors would deter investors. It’s a Catch-22 to some extent.

I am suggesting that these nations bypass the usual drive to high mass consumption of resources altogether, and develop their infrastructure by adopting clean tech in the first instance.

 

[batnbowl]

African nations are battered with civil wars, corruption, never-ending disease to care about attracting investors for solar power.

All of these things look good, but are of very little use practically.

I can see that you are full of solutions

 

[Pakpak]

I can see that you are full of solutions

I don't think someone who voted leave would understand any solutions.

 

[batnbowl]

I don't think someone who voted leave would understand any solutions.

well done, thx for staying on topic

 

[Robert]

I don't think someone who voted leave would understand any solutions.

He has a point though - all you have done us say why things won’t work. It would be positive to see you suggest steps to help African states stabilise and grow their economies by adopting green tech and processes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He has a point though - all you have done us say why things won’t work. It would be positive to see you suggest steps to help African states stabilise and grow their economies by adopting green tech and processes.

He'd have a point if he had proposed some solutions, but I just scrolled up and I don't see any suggestions from him either.

 

[Sirris]

I just had this idea today while thinking about the water issue. Why aren't we going to North and South pole and mining big blocks of ice cubes and transferring them to the rest of the world via giant ship containers? On their way the ice cubes will eventually melt on their own and you would have liquid water.

Is it because of economic-feasibility? There has to be a smart way to do this to make a lot of profit. Besides when the question is about human survival is economic-feasibility really something to consider?

By not doing anything at all the melted ice water is leaking into the sea and the potential water reservoir is being lost. Not just that if it keeps on melting the sea level will rise and you would have to say good bye to many cities around the world.

Yes we could focus on making the process of melting poles much slower by reducing CO2 emission or what not but ice will melt one day. So why not use it for good?

 

[Pakpak]

He has a point though - all you have done us say why things won’t work. It would be positive to see you suggest steps to help African states stabilise and grow their economies by adopting green tech and processes.

My solution was simple, there is no way they can grow more with 'green' processes. Its going to be good old way. Again, easier for the western world to cry about green tech as they are rich on the back of plundering natural resources themselves.

 

[Pakistanian]

It's not a big deal #USA

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Nobody cares because we all live in an illusion that there will be perpetual economic growth and enough resources to exploit. Even the concept of 'sustainable development' is a bit of joke . Even the rate of production of 1990 is not enough for us to live sustainably and leave enough for future generations. And in 2018 , we have both highly developed economies and developing economies vying for higher growth rates.

Common sense would tell you that you cannot have endless growth on a planet with finite resources but then....

It would take deindustrialization on a massive scale across the globe to reduce per capita consumption of resources and ensure that future generation s have something to live off.

However, the current neoliberal economic order only worsens the situation and not does it increase wealth concentration n the hands of a few but also is cannibalising itself and destroying the planet. Meanwhile many can live comfortably in their technological bubble and maintsin the illusion of a high standard of living like it's something to brag about.

 

[Yossarian]

Just what can we actually do to stop it? It’s all well and good folks in Europe ditching their petrol/diesel cars for electric ones, or cutting back on flights etc but it’s a drop in the ocean compared to what’s going on in China, India etc- they are chucking out so much co2 that what we do in certain parts of the west is meaningless. .

Actually, amongst the major economies, China and India don't even come close to the major polluters (per capita) like the USA, Canada and Australia.

The average Indian, for example, 'pollutes' approx 1/10th as much as the average American, Canadian or Australian. Don't blame the poor Indians or the Chinese trying to bring up the standards of living of their people even to a fraction to that of their rich and wealthy fellow inhabitants of this planet.

 

[MenInG]

Campaigners are to target the London Underground system as demonstrations continue in the capital aimed at forcing action on climate change.

The campaign group Extinction Rebellion said it is planning to "non-violently disrupt Tube services to highlight the emergency of ecological collapse" on Wednesday if the Government does not meet its members.

It added: "Participants will peacefully break the law in order to stop the Tube and then will wait to be arrested.

"We sincerely apologise to all those who may suffer as a consequence of this disruption. In any other circumstances we would never dream of disrupting the Tube but this is an emergency.

"We request that workers do not intervene in the protests to ensure that they go as smoothly and safely as possible for all involved."

290 people have been arrested for taking part in ongoing climate change protests in London as police say the demonstrations are causing "serious disruption"

So far at least 290 people have been arrested for taking part in the ongoing climate change protests in London as police say the demonstrations are causing "serious disruption".

The number of those detained surged on Tuesday evening after a police order came into force restricting protests to a site at Marble Arch.

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-change-protesters-to-target-london-tube-services-11695826

 

[Technics 1210]

Horror story my foot.

Simple physics lesson - displacement.

Water expands as it gets cooler, by 10%. Meaning if the ice melts, then the volume decreases, ergo water levels do NOT rise.

Don't believe me? Take a glass, pack it with ice, the fill it with water to thr brim. Guess what will happen to the water level as the ice melts? You guessed it, the water level decreases.

Simple physics destroys the myth of ice melting and water levels rising.

Education was and is the silver bullet.

 

[Adijazz1706]

The 100 biggest companies produce 72% of global greenhouse gases, yet these idiots want individuals to spend more on 'green' products to soothe their ego

 

[Robert]

Some people I know are with Extinction Rebellion. Dunno how I feel about it.

 

[Itachi]

Theres more chance of wars wiping out entire human race. So melting ice will be the least concern. Before it happs, there will be no human left.

 

[Robert]

Horror story my foot.

Simple physics lesson - displacement.

Water expands as it gets cooler, by 10%. Meaning if the ice melts, then the volume decreases, ergo water levels do NOT rise.

Don't believe me? Take a glass, pack it with ice, the fill it with water to thr brim. Guess what will happen to the water level as the ice melts? You guessed it, the water level decreases.

Simple physics destroys the myth of ice melting and water levels rising.

Education was and is the silver bullet.

Yet observation reveals that icebergs actually drop off the ice sheets and into the water, before melting.

Though I am more concerned about billions of tonnes of ice melting into fresh water, which interferes with salty ocean currents in unpredictable ways.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yet observation reveals that icebergs actually drop off the ice sheets and into the water, before melting.

Though I am more concerned about billions of tonnes of ice melting into fresh water, which interferes with salty ocean currents in unpredictable ways.

The ice that breaks off is already submerged in the water at it is part of one giant ice cube if you will; so the water is already displaced.

Ice on land however is a different story.

 

[Stewie]

I’ll tell you why “we” don’t care.

Most of the policies in the world are dictated by Americans and most conservative Americans don’t believe in global warming.. conservative Americans are in power at the moment. They do t believe in it because it affects their pockets. Most of them have connections to big conglomerates in the energy and industrial sector who are contributing to global warming. Accepting global warming as a real and existing threat would mean they will face regulations and penalties which affect their profits.

The rest of the world particularly Europe and Canada do not function this way and have several climate and environment protectionist plans in place.. companies in these countries are heavily regulated and there are several laws and regulation in place. Trump refused to sign those accords and Americans don’t believe in regulations because they consider them anti capitalist and they want reduced governmental powers, so they can do whatever they want.. and they mostly do.

 

[Robert]

I’ll tell you why “we” don’t care.

Most of the policies in the world are dictated by Americans and most conservative Americans don’t believe in global warming.. conservative Americans are in power at the moment. They do t believe in it because it affects their pockets. Most of them have connections to big conglomerates in the energy and industrial sector who are contributing to global warming. Accepting global warming as a real and existing threat would mean they will face regulations and penalties which affect their profits.

The rest of the world particularly Europe and Canada do not function this way and have several climate and environment protectionist plans in place.. companies in these countries are heavily regulated and there are several laws and regulation in place. Trump refused to sign those accords and Americans don’t believe in regulations because they consider them anti capitalist and they want reduced governmental powers, so they can do whatever they want.. and they mostly do.

Nail on head.