The new income tax regime is made to kill Pakistan's middle class

[Slim]

Those who have followed today's budget have become aware that how crushing it is for Pakistan's salaried individuals. While Imran Khan and his non filing friends will enjoy all the benefits. Its people like me and most of Pakistan that would suffer due to this new regime.

Government has made sure to screw over the salaried and tax paying citizens in this budget. I was paying less than 10,000 in tax a year ago and now this year i will be made to be pay more than 50,000 in taxes. And remember this is just income tax. They are charging us withholding, VAT, and sales tax too. Not only this but the dollar rate has increased by almost 50%, reducing actual purchasing power in half. You know the things you could afford last year, yeah you cant anymore. Either the dollar rate ****s us, or their taxes. They are crushing us.

The government and the PM are so immature that they put their hopes on a oil drilling activity in some sea bed which never worked 14 times before. The government is so inept that their all talk no action Finance Minister was made to resign within a year. They are so unequipped that they made the same guy that was Pakistan's Finance minister during Pakistan's lowest GDP growth as their finance minister. This is your Naya Pakistan? **** your Naya Pakistan. I will never vote for this ******** and his party again.

You know whats even worse? They have allowed non filers to buy properties and cars as much as they want. Whats the point of even filing taxes any more? And yes, please dont tell me they have higher WTH, do corrupt people even give a **** about WTH taxes? This government is so horrible and incompetent that its giving Zardari govt a run for its money in terms of incompetence.

They should thank Modi that the whole February episode distracted us for a bit.

This budget is going to kill Pakistan's middle class.

 

[Napa]

I am pretty sure one of IMF's conditions was that the government decrease its budget deficit. That has to happen through higher taxes or lower expenditures. Higher taxes from businessmen and feudal land-owners needs stricter enforcement of tax laws, which in turn requires political courage and competence.

Salaried people are the easiest target as they cannot hide their income.

 

[JaDed]

Middle class is crushed around the world get used to it..all farm loans would be waived off with your money, wars fought with your tax..

 

[Savak]

Typical Pakistani attitude, demands first world benefits from the govt without having to file and pay taxes.

 

[slipcatch]

Ever wonder, what if, our parents had stood up against the corrupt politicians then you and I wouldn't be suffering and paying the price for their lack of courage.

We can't completely lay the blame on our parents, masses need a leader, fortunately Allah has blessed us with one and he is more determined than the people he is leading.

If you do not suffer now then your kids will go through the worse than current crisis in Pakistan.

The February episode lasted a week and since then no one has really talked about it in Pakistan. It was designed to benefit only one nation but Allah had different plan and embarrassing the aggressor on every international forum.

Pakistan has to go through this struggle, no more artificially keeping the dollar lower, no more subsidy, no more loans hopefully and for all that to happen, the middle class had to be ****** off by the honest and competent government.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

The problem is undocumented economy while the biggest problem is govt (any) dont want to bring non tax payers in tax circle. There are hundred of thousands transporters, merchants, middlemen, whole sellers, distributors, property agents etc etc earn in 6 to 7 digits monthly but do not pay even a single rupee tax.

It is sad that even a taxi driver or chingchi wala earn 70-80k easily and get away from paying tax but a man having 16 years of education is paying tax while earning half of him.

 

[Pakistanian]

Lol @ the hyperbole. This article is something that would be written by a Republican fearmongering about more taxes.

 

[sjahmed23]

Lol @ the hyperbole. This article is something that would be written by a Republican fearmongering about more taxes.

I can't blame him, I would be ****** off too if my salary was worth 50% less and I had no other option. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be amongst the working class in Pak without any support from parents who left you with a house or some other property. It seems Pakistan is only good for the wealthy which is why things needed to change, but unfortunately it has not happened. I think putting the burden on the working class and ignoring the wealthy cash earners will encourage more people to pay less tax and then what will the government do?

At some point you have to look elsewhere, and where have most people in Pakistan made their money in recent years? Everyone knows the answer to that.

 

[Savak]

Not sure why going after the undocumented economy is so over complicated. Give full power to the FBR to go door by door and ask people to prove they have filed taxes, paid taxes or is the problem that the citizens are easily able to bribe FBR officials to let them off the hook?

 

[Pakistanian]

I can't blame him, I would be ****** off too if my salary was worth 50% less and I had no other option. I can't imagine what it must feel like to be amongst the working class in Pak without any support from parents who left you with a house or some other property. It seems Pakistan is only good for the wealthy which is why things needed to change, but unfortunately it has not happened. I think putting the burden on the working class and ignoring the wealthy cash earners will encourage more people to pay less tax and then what will the government do?

At some point you have to look elsewhere, and where have most people in Pakistan made their money in recent years? Everyone knows the answer to that.

I understand the frustration but the solution isn't tax evasion; I'm not in favor of raising taxes on the middle class, only the upper class however everybody should be under the tax net, everybody should pay their dues.

 

[Savak]

This thread is the classic problem with the people of Pakistan. They demand all sorts of benefits from the govt and improvement to the nation without doing their part. In Canada the highest income tax bracket gives away almost 50% of what they earn to the govt, in the UK I am pretty sure it is even higher.

Pakistanis are the only nation where only 1% of the population files taxes and then demands that the govt provide first world benefits.

People like the OP are the main reason why we have looters and plunderers constantly ruling us. He is putting his own self interest above the nations and would be perfectly ok with the likes of Nawaz and Zardari looting, plundering the country as long as he doesn't have to pay extra tax

 

[Syed1]

This thread is the classic problem with the people of Pakistan. They demand all sorts of benefits from the govt and improvement to the nation without doing their part. In Canada the highest income tax bracket gives away almost 50% of what they earn to the govt, in the UK I am pretty sure it is even higher.

Pakistanis are the only nation where only 1% of the population files taxes and then demands that the govt provide first world benefits.

People like the OP are the main reason why we have looters and plunderers constantly ruling us. He is putting his own self interest above the nations and would be perfectly ok with the likes of Nawaz and Zardari looting, plundering the country as long as he doesn't have to pay extra tax

Like I said in the budget thread people like OP moan about lack of schools, hospitals, better infrastructure and policing yet are crying when tax is being imposed even though Pak's tax rates are lower than even India let alone welfare states like Canada, UK.

 

[Waseem]

I can completely understand the frustration as anyone would feel frustrated after getting pay cut due to additional taxes.

I think it's quite unfair to blame it on government though, their only other option is to borrow more to make up for the shortfall. Government is also making substantial cuts to their employees and cabinet ministers and other tax reforms are in progress which was never going to happen overnight. Hopefully there is a relief for middle class in future but i don't see many other options for government right now.

 

[srh]

Those who have followed today's budget have become aware that how crushing it is for Pakistan's salaried individuals. While Imran Khan and his non filing friends will enjoy all the benefits. Its people like me and most of Pakistan that would suffer due to this new regime.

Government has made sure to screw over the salaried and tax paying citizens in this budget. I was paying less than 10,000 in tax a year ago and now this year i will be made to be pay more than 50,000 in taxes. And remember this is just income tax. They are charging us withholding, VAT, and sales tax too. Not only this but the dollar rate has increased by almost 50%, reducing actual purchasing power in half. You know the things you could afford last year, yeah you cant anymore. Either the dollar rate ****s us, or their taxes. They are crushing us.

The government and the PM are so immature that they put their hopes on a oil drilling activity in some sea bed which never worked 14 times before. The government is so inept that their all talk no action Finance Minister was made to resign within a year. They are so unequipped that they made the same guy that was Pakistan's Finance minister during Pakistan's lowest GDP growth as their finance minister. This is your Naya Pakistan? **** your Naya Pakistan. I will never vote for this ******** and his party again.

You know whats even worse? They have allowed non filers to buy properties and cars as much as they want. Whats the point of even filing taxes any more? And yes, please dont tell me they have higher WTH, do corrupt people even give a **** about WTH taxes? This government is so horrible and incompetent that its giving Zardari govt a run for its money in terms of incompetence.

They should thank Modi that the whole February episode distracted us for a bit.

This budget is going to kill Pakistan's middle class.

Pakistanis dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is Rs 400,000 or less. On the other hand Canadians dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is C$ 14,000 or less. Fact. Dont ever say Pakistanis are paying more taxes than other countries.

 

[Sidilicious]

Pakistanis dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is Rs 400,000 or less. On the other hand Canadians dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is C$ 14,000 or less. Fact. Dont ever say Pakistanis are paying more taxes than other countries.

I just looked up the tax bracket for Pakistan, and the tax free bracket is 600,000, and not 400,000. And the gradual increase in tax is also quite low. I do not know about the cost of living in Pakistan, but the Tax slabs seem quite generous. It is way more generous in Pakistan than in India, where you start paying tax over 250,000.

But you cannot compare the tax in Canada and Europe to India and Pakistan. We get way more social security as compared to those working in India/Pakistan, so they need to boost their savings and investments for rainy days.

 

[Halaribo]

Those who have followed today's budget have become aware that how crushing it is for Pakistan's salaried individuals. While Imran Khan and his non filing friends will enjoy all the benefits. Its people like me and most of Pakistan that would suffer due to this new regime.

Government has made sure to screw over the salaried and tax paying citizens in this budget. I was paying less than 10,000 in tax a year ago and now this year i will be made to be pay more than 50,000 in taxes. And remember this is just income tax. They are charging us withholding, VAT, and sales tax too. Not only this but the dollar rate has increased by almost 50%, reducing actual purchasing power in half. You know the things you could afford last year, yeah you cant anymore. Either the dollar rate ****s us, or their taxes. They are crushing us.

The government and the PM are so immature that they put their hopes on a oil drilling activity in some sea bed which never worked 14 times before. The government is so inept that their all talk no action Finance Minister was made to resign within a year. They are so unequipped that they made the same guy that was Pakistan's Finance minister during Pakistan's lowest GDP growth as their finance minister. This is your Naya Pakistan? **** your Naya Pakistan. I will never vote for this ******** and his party again.

You know whats even worse? They have allowed non filers to buy properties and cars as much as they want. Whats the point of even filing taxes any more? And yes, please dont tell me they have higher WTH, do corrupt people even give a **** about WTH taxes? This government is so horrible and incompetent that its giving Zardari govt a run for its money in terms of incompetence.

They should thank Modi that the whole February episode distracted us for a bit.

This budget is going to kill Pakistan's middle class.

How is it Imran's fault that nobody has been paying taxes for decades?

All you've really said with this post is "as long as I get mine, everything else can take a running jump".

I'm intrigued as to how you think nations establish stable, sustainable economies.

 

[GBK_Fan]

I just looked up the tax bracket for Pakistan, and the tax free bracket is 600,000, and not 400,000. And the gradual increase in tax is also quite low. I do not know about the cost of living in Pakistan, but the Tax slabs seem quite generous. It is way more generous in Pakistan than in India, where you start paying tax over 250,000.

But you cannot compare the tax in Canada and Europe to India and Pakistan. We get way more social security as compared to those working in India/Pakistan, so they need to boost their savings and investments for rainy days.

+1

The tax slabs in Pakistan are far more generous than in India. Also slabs at the highest level in Pakistan are still below those in India.

The cost of living in places like mumbai and Bangalore is quite high too. Not sure why the posters here are complaining.

 

[Napa]

Those who have followed today's budget have become aware that how crushing it is for Pakistan's salaried individuals. While Imran Khan and his non filing friends will enjoy all the benefits. Its people like me and most of Pakistan that would suffer due to this new regime.



This budget is going to kill Pakistan's middle class.

Typical Pakistani attitude, demands first world benefits from the govt without having to file and pay taxes.

Lol @ the hyperbole. This article is something that would be written by a Republican fearmongering about more taxes.

Like I said in the budget thread people like OP moan about lack of schools, hospitals, better infrastructure and policing yet are crying when tax is being imposed even though Pak's tax rates are lower than even India let alone welfare states like Canada, UK.

Pakistanis dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is Rs 400,000 or less. On the other hand Canadians dont pay any income taxes if their yearly income is C$ 14,000 or less. Fact. Dont ever say Pakistanis are paying more taxes than other countries.

If I understand correctly, Pakistanis who left the country are criticizing a Pakistani who chose to stay and work in Pakistan for complaining about the level of taxes in Pakistan

 

[Jin Chacha]

The salaried class is not complaining about the amount of tax so all these comparisons with other countries are irrelevant. The salaried class is complaining about the injustice of squeezing them even further when they are the only ones that pay tax. I don't understand why people become so defensive about this issue because no one is blaming IK or PTI for it. Any govt would have done the same because there is no other choice.

However, unless IK can significantly broaden the tax net in the next few years and target the big fish and undocumented small businesses, there is absolutely no incentive for the educated middle class to stay in Pakistan. Living in Pakistan as a middle class salaried individual is horrible right now. And to be fair I dont see things improving in the near future no matter who is in power because the educated middle class is a much smaller vote bank than the rural population and much less powerful than the large businesses so no govt has an incentive to do anything for them.

 

[the Great Khan]

The salaried class is not complaining about the amount of tax so all these comparisons with other countries are irrelevant. The salaried class is complaining about the injustice of squeezing them even further when they are the only ones that pay tax. I don't understand why people become so defensive about this issue because no one is blaming IK or PTI for it. Any govt would have done the same because there is no other choice.

However, unless IK can significantly broaden the tax net in the next few years and target the big fish and undocumented small businesses, there is absolutely no incentive for the educated middle class to stay in Pakistan. Living in Pakistan as a middle class salaried individual is horrible right now. And to be fair I dont see things improving in the near future no matter who is in power because the educated middle class is a much smaller vote bank than the rural population and much less powerful than the large businesses so no govt has an incentive to do anything for them.

This. I am a supporter of the current govt but I know a few salaried individuals in Pakistan and have known many in the past. they have consistently been shafted by various governments.

Now I dont want to lecture my pakistani brothers because Is it comfortably (in comparison) in the uk. However the country is in dire straits at the moment. And IK is asking many to make a sacrifice. Its a high risk strategy because if it fails the country will go over a cliff. IK needs to go after the undocumented economy, the big tax avoiders and ease the burden on the middle class as soon as he possibly can. It is a rubbish situation to be in and he needs to increase revenues from other avenues within the next two years.

One caveat and this is for all of us in the so called salaried classes. It is always harder for us. We get squeezed because we are easy targets but if you have a welfare system in place that can provide some credit or tax benefits that helps. Pakistan doesnt have that yet and needs to look to get some of the illgotten gains from the sharifs bhuttos and others back to help..the country needs to start to generate revenue otherwise...

 

[Lonewarrior]

OP is living in different world i think ..

 

[slipcatch]

If I understand correctly, Pakistanis who left the country are criticizing a Pakistani who chose to stay and work in Pakistan for complaining about the level of taxes in Pakistan

If I understand correctly, Indian living in US criticizing Pakistani to defend their arm force and does his Puja daily around how to tie every around Pakistani army, LOL LOL

 

[srh]

I just looked up the tax bracket for Pakistan, and the tax free bracket is 600,000, and not 400,000. And the gradual increase in tax is also quite low. I do not know about the cost of living in Pakistan, but the Tax slabs seem quite generous. It is way more generous in Pakistan than in India, where you start paying tax over 250,000.

But you cannot compare the tax in Canada and Europe to India and Pakistan. We get way more social security as compared to those working in India/Pakistan, so they need to boost their savings and investments for rainy days.

looks like this current Imran Khan government just increase the tax free bracket from 400,000 yearly to 600,000 yearly this is too generous and no wonder Pakistan is so poor because they dont collect enough taxes and thus they have to ask for loans from others

 

[sshakir411]

Prople who believe they’re middle-class are usually few notches above that social class. If you’re able to put food on the table twice a day you’re above middle-class in any part of the world. Get over it.

 

[Savak]

If I understand correctly, Pakistanis who left the country are criticizing a Pakistani who chose to stay and work in Pakistan for complaining about the level of taxes in Pakistan

What are you talking about? Do you realize how much in taxes Pakistani's living and working in the UK, Europe, Canada and the US have to pay to the federal, local government?

I remember working in Pakistan for 2 years before moving out and my income at the time wasn't even subject to taxation because it was below the minimum annual tax bracket. To some extent i sympathize with the OP where he feels the govt is going after people who religiously pay and file taxes every year rather than the top fish, the undocumented economy but Pakistani tax rates and brackets are nothing compared to the West.

If the people of Pakistan want to see things improve, they have to play their part and not bark 24/7 about problems when only the PTI is in power, ignoring to do the same when PML N, PPP is in power and not play their part.

 

[amvbfm]

If I understand correctly, Pakistanis who left the country are criticizing a Pakistani who chose to stay and work in Pakistan for complaining about the level of taxes in Pakistan

Pretty much all the people here blindly supporting IK are living outside Pakistan and are totally unaware about the ground realities and how difficult it is becoming financially. I still support Imran but I refuse to do it blindly. While the new tax regime is not as bad as some people are making it out to be (the lower slabs are pretty reasonable) what really rankles is that the salaried class is being squeezed when the others will get away totally or by paying minimal taxes. I challenge all the expat friends asking us to suck it up to come here and try to manage a household in a fixed salary when you get absolutely nothing from the government in return for your taxes and inflation is sky high.

 

[amvbfm]

The salaried class is not complaining about the amount of tax so all these comparisons with other countries are irrelevant. The salaried class is complaining about the injustice of squeezing them even further when they are the only ones that pay tax. I don't understand why people become so defensive about this issue because no one is blaming IK or PTI for it. Any govt would have done the same because there is no other choice.

However, unless IK can significantly broaden the tax net in the next few years and target the big fish and undocumented small businesses, there is absolutely no incentive for the educated middle class to stay in Pakistan. Living in Pakistan as a middle class salaried individual is horrible right now. And to be fair I dont see things improving in the near future no matter who is in power because the educated middle class is a much smaller vote bank than the rural population and much less powerful than the large businesses so no govt has an incentive to do anything for them.

Hit the nail on the head. The educated salaried urban middle class is too small a vote bank for any politician to really care for them. And Imran is going down the same path.

 

[Waseem]

looks like this current Imran Khan government just increase the tax free bracket from 400,000 yearly to 600,000 yearly this is too generous and no wonder Pakistan is so poor because they dont collect enough taxes and thus they have to ask for loans from others

It was 400,000 until Nawaz Sharif's genius jnr Miftah Ismail increased it to whopping RS 1.2million which was absolutely shocking knowing well Pakistan was already struggling to collect direct taxes. PTI is being criticised for lowering it from 12lakh to 6lakh.Miftah knew his government won't need to implement this as it was going to start from July 2018 during next government but he shamelessly asked for votes based on this tax relief.

Nawaz government not only did this but several of their payments were staggered to ensure next government pays them off (at times created companies for this purpose). They even made sure billions worth advertising payments were left for next government including non stop "Mujhay kyun nikala" campaign. This is partly the reason media is cursing the current government for not clearing their dues.

 

[slipcatch]

Pretty much all the people here blindly supporting IK are living outside Pakistan and are totally unaware about the ground realities and how difficult it is becoming financially. I still support Imran but I refuse to do it blindly. While the new tax regime is not as bad as some people are making it out to be (the lower slabs are pretty reasonable) what really rankles is that the salaried class is being squeezed when the others will get away totally or by paying minimal taxes. I challenge all the expat friends asking us to suck it up to come here and try to manage a household in a fixed salary when you get absolutely nothing from the government in return for your taxes and inflation is sky high.

A response from someone who not in tune with reality.

You need infrastructure to collect tax, Pakistan doesn't have it.

You want everything form a government who has been in power for less than a year but was Okay not to get anything from previous governments.

 

[amvbfm]

[/B]

A response from someone who not in tune with reality.

You need infrastructure to collect tax, Pakistan doesn't have it.

You want everything form a government who has been in power for less than a year but was Okay not to get anything from previous governments.

Yeah right says someone who probably comes to Pakistan once every few years or probably not even that. And even if there is no infrastructure how does that imply that you squeeze the only people who are paying their taxes honestly and regularly.

 

[Hamza_]

Now all Pakistanis living in Pakistan are getting to witness what horrible mistake Khan is.

 

[slipcatch]

Yeah right says someone who probably comes to Pakistan once every few years or probably not even that. And even if there is no infrastructure how does that imply that you squeeze the only people who are paying their taxes honestly and regularly.

You do not know me, so let's keep the assumptions to minimal.

And I suggest you to read the new tax bracket before commenting.

 

[amvbfm]

You do not know me, so let's keep the assumptions to minimal.

And I suggest you to read the new tax bracket before commenting.

I am well aware of the new slabs and will also pay those taxes not just read them so I guess I also have the right to comment on it.

 

[Fahdi]

I understand your frustration and we are kind of in the same boat but I will ask of you what I have asked others my other frustrated salaried friends, why didn't you see this coming? It was clear as day this was going to happen.

Also this is hardly new. The minimum taxable income used to be RS 400,000 but was raised to 1.2 million just a couple of years back. Now they have made it 600,000.

Everytime there has been a difficult economic situation the salaried class has suffered. We are easy targets basically.

Increasing the tax net in Pakistan needs investment and time. Neither of which the government has.

And the salaried class gets screwed all over the world. The system is rigged, welcome to Capitalism! When the economy and market is bad the working class suffers first, when the economy and market does well the working class benefits last.

 

[Savak]

Pretty much all the people here blindly supporting IK are living outside Pakistan and are totally unaware about the ground realities and how difficult it is becoming financially. I still support Imran but I refuse to do it blindly. While the new tax regime is not as bad as some people are making it out to be (the lower slabs are pretty reasonable) what really rankles is that the salaried class is being squeezed when the others will get away totally or by paying minimal taxes. I challenge all the expat friends asking us to suck it up to come here and try to manage a household in a fixed salary when you get absolutely nothing from the government in return for your taxes and inflation is sky high.

You are free to vote for the PPP and PML-N in the next elections if you wish to have tax free income, who cares about 1% of the population filing taxes whereas in the UK you have 60% of the population filing taxes.

Why did the people of Pakistan sit idle and not do anything when the PPP and PML-N took the foreign debts from $36 billion to $100 billion in 10 years, Current Account Deficit to $38 billion, now that the PTI is taking tough unavoidable measures to fix the economic structure why is there such a hue and cry now? Where was this hue and cry when the PPP and PML-N were in power?

I feel the govt is squeezing the salaried class and also going after those outside the tax net hence why this amnesty scheme was introduced, i expect a blood bath after June 30. The poor people of Pakistan live on meager wages but live within their means and are content with life.

The people of Pakistan will have to make sacrifices and the nation overall needs to learn to live within their means.

 

[amvbfm]

You are free to vote for the PPP and PML-N in the next elections if you wish to have tax free income, who cares about 1% of the population filing taxes whereas in the UK you have 60% of the population filing taxes.

Why did the people of Pakistan sit idle and not do anything when the PPP and PML-N took the foreign debts from $36 billion to $100 billion in 10 years, Current Account Deficit to $38 billion, now that the PTI is taking tough unavoidable measures to fix the economic structure why is there such a hue and cry now? Where was this hue and cry when the PPP and PML-N were in power?

I feel the govt is squeezing the salaried class and also going after those outside the tax net hence why this amnesty scheme was introduced, i expect a blood bath after June 30. The poor people of Pakistan live on meager wages but live within their means and are content with life.

The people of Pakistan will have to make sacrifices and the nation overall needs to learn to live within their means.

Never have voted for PPP or PML-N and never will. I have been a taxpayer for the past 15 years and like another poster commented above I was prepared for this but i disagree with it on principle and I really don't see why people have a problem with PTI or IK being criticized on this matter or otherwise. I agree that tough measures are needed and sacrifices need to be made but these should be made by all segments of the society. A middle, lower middle class salaried person who pays a significant chunk of his salary in the form of rent, education and utilities is already living not just within but well below his means so I just don't know what further sacrifices you want from him.

 

[Napa]

What are you talking about? Do you realize how much in taxes Pakistani's living and working in the UK, Europe, Canada and the US have to pay to the federal, local government?

Yes, but whatever they pay doesn't go to Pakistan.
[MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] pays taxes to Pakistan. Expats criticizing him pay zero taxes to Pakistan. Expats do send remittances, but they get to decide how much money to send home to relatives etc.

 

[Savak]

Yes, but whatever they pay doesn't go to Pakistan.
[MENTION=146948]Slim[/MENTION] pays taxes to Pakistan. Expats criticizing him pay zero taxes to Pakistan. Expats do send remittances, but they get to decide how much money to send home to relatives etc.

My parents are Dual US-Canadian-Pakistani nationals, they pay taxes in all 3 countries. Point is even in the West, if people feel the govt isn't providing just services for the taxes they pay, they cannot adopt the line i refuse to pay taxes, the govt will be on the chase for them.

 

[slipcatch]

I am well aware of the new slabs and will also pay those taxes not just read them so I guess I also have the right to comment on it.

You definitely do, no one has denied that right.

 

[shockbound]

I dont know what defines middle-class for you.

I cross 600,000 mark annually, I am only asked to pay 2500rs as tax, even that would be nulled as my company would declare part of it among tax exemptions.

Its the upper-entry class which is supposed to pay 1/12 of their annual salary as tax.

Rest of increments happen with every budget. Reducing GST over local food is actually welcoming.

Dollar rise has hurt lot more than this. I havent ordered anything from AliExpress since dollar crossing 140. I used to do it regularly.

P.S, not a PTI fan, only reflecting what we felt at workplace.

 

[Mamoon]

Ever wonder, what if, our parents had stood up against the corrupt politicians then you and I wouldn't be suffering and paying the price for their lack of courage.

We can't completely lay the blame on our parents, masses need a leader, fortunately Allah has blessed us with one and he is more determined than the people he is leading.

If you do not suffer now then your kids will go through the worse than current crisis in Pakistan.

The February episode lasted a week and since then no one has really talked about it in Pakistan. It was designed to benefit only one nation but Allah had different plan and embarrassing the aggressor on every international forum.

Pakistan has to go through this struggle, no more artificially keeping the dollar lower, no more subsidy, no more loans hopefully and for all that to happen, the middle class had to be ****** off by the honest and competent government.

People will suffer now and their kids will also suffer. That is the harsh reality of this country as long as the stronghold of the military remains. Anyway, carry on with your glad tidings of a utopian future that will never come.

 

[Savak]

People will suffer now and their kids will also suffer. That is the harsh reality of this country as long as the stronghold of the military remains. Anyway, carry on with your glad tidings of a utopian future that will never come.

Not at all, in fact compared to the Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardari's, i will gladly take Millitary rule any day, facts speak for themselves, Musharraf took over in 1999, Pakistan's foreign debts were $39 billion, when Musharraf left in 2008, Pakistan's foreign debts were $36 billion, ten years of Zardari and NS, Pakistan's foreign debts are now $100 billion.

 

[Mamoon]

Not at all, in fact compared to the Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardari's, i will gladly take Millitary rule any day, facts speak for themselves, Musharraf took over in 1999, Pakistan's foreign debts were $39 billion, when Musharraf left in 2008, Pakistan's foreign debts were $36 billion, ten years of Zardari and NS, Pakistan's foreign debts are now $100 billion.

I addressed the so-called economic growth under military dictatorship in another thread. I will copy paste my response here:

I know Pakistan’s history which is why I understand that no institution has harmed the country more than the military. Throughout the course of our history, they have interfered in politics, business, and have designed our foreign policy to serve their self-interests.

The so-called superior performance of military dictatorship needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Ayub, Zia and Musharraf all received immense support and financial aid from the U.S. because of their role in the Cold War and WOT respectively.

Thus, the military dictators were able to achieve rapid economic growth by doing the bidding of their masters in Pentagon, this growth has come at a massive cost, whose repercussions have been felt over the long-term.

Relying on financial aid from the U.S. for fighting their wars is not a long-term solution for achieving economic growth.

Pakistan needs to develop modern industries for long-term sustainability - we need to take a leaf out of India's book - they have been able to develop modern industries and their main exports today are auto, IT and pharma.

They have been able to achieve all of that without a single day under military dictatorship, and their politicians have been as corrupt as ours, if not more.

The problem for Pakistan is that the military has too much stake in the economy. Their pension is paid from the federal budget, they run businesses and retired military officials are able to occupy important posts in institutions like PCB, PIA, PTCL. WAPDA, PTV etc. without any genuine accountability.

 

[Savak]

I addressed the so-called economic growth under military dictatorship in another thread. I will copy paste my response here:

So as an over simplification, you are saying that US aid is single handedly responsible for millitary governments out performing Civilian governments and has had nothing to do with poor incompetent civillian leadership?

 

[Mamoon]

So as an over simplification, you are saying that US aid is single handedly responsible for millitary governments out performing Civilian governments and has had nothing to do with poor incompetent civillian leadership?

Yes. They were able to artificially boost the economy because of doing USA's bidding. However, it has come at a massive cost. It is not a sustainable solution for economic growth.

 

[LongHorn]

I challenge all the expat friends asking us to suck it up to come here and try to manage a household in a fixed salary when you get absolutely nothing from the government in return for your taxes and inflation is sky high.

They wont, they will cheer for higher taxes from thousands of miles away, all the while the pointing out how they pay 30-40% of their income in taxes, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they pay next to nothing for healthcare and education

 

[Mamoon]

Pretty much all the people here blindly supporting IK are living outside Pakistan and are totally unaware about the ground realities and how difficult it is becoming financially. I still support Imran but I refuse to do it blindly. While the new tax regime is not as bad as some people are making it out to be (the lower slabs are pretty reasonable) what really rankles is that the salaried class is being squeezed when the others will get away totally or by paying minimal taxes. I challenge all the expat friends asking us to suck it up to come here and try to manage a household in a fixed salary when you get absolutely nothing from the government in return for your taxes and inflation is sky high.

There is no bigger hypocrite than an expat Pakistani who has no intentions of coming back to Pakistan.

 

[Savak]

[/B]

There is no bigger hypocrite than an expat Pakistani who has no intentions of coming back to Pakistan.

Expat Pakistani's pay more taxes abroad vs the taxes in Pakistan. That is why they are laughing at the people crying about increase in taxes even though it is nothing compared to the taxes people pay in the West

 

[Savak]

They wont, they will cheer for higher taxes from thousands of miles away, all the while the pointing out how they pay 30-40% of their income in taxes, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they pay next to nothing for healthcare and education

Next to nothing for health care and education? Brother the taxes we pay end up paying for it, even then Pakistani's abroad have to pay an exhorbitant amount worth thousands of $ for things not covered by govt health insurance. Some colleges and Universities are not covered by government loan programs which you have to pay back anyways. I know of many Pakistani's and Indians how go back to Pakistan and India for certain medical treatments like dental treatments, cosmetic treatments because it is dirt cheap back home in comparison to the West.

And in any case, its not like housing or rent is cheap in the West either. Saving money is hard in Canada, USA and UK as well. In the US a family can easily go bankrupt if someone requires hospitalization and is hospitalized for 2-3 weeks. People in Pakistan are under the misconception that life is easy abroad in greener pastures.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

They wont, they will cheer for higher taxes from thousands of miles away, all the while the pointing out how they pay 30-40% of their income in taxes, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they pay next to nothing for healthcare and education

Damn....... Haha.

Interesting debate.

 

[Syed1]

They wont, they will cheer for higher taxes from thousands of miles away, all the while the pointing out how they pay 30-40% of their income in taxes, while conveniently leaving out the fact that they pay next to nothing for healthcare and education

Perhaps you are too dumb to realize but free healthcare and education was established AFTER people paid that high of a tax rate. Government didn't start doling out those benefits on empty coffers.

 

[Savak]

Perhaps you are too dumb to realize but free healthcare and education was established AFTER people paid that high of a tax rate. Government didn't start doling out those benefits on empty coffers.

I would like to add to the misconception regarding free health care. If you are paying $30,000-40,000 or even higher in taxes per year and you end up using the health care facilities for $1,000 or $5,000 per annum or if the cost of garbage, policing e.t.c is $2,000 a year and your kids go to college late in life. How is any of the stuff free?

 

[Syed1]

I would like to add to the misconception regarding free health care. If you are paying $30,000-40,000 or even higher in taxes per year and you end up using the health care facilities for $1,000 or $5,000 per annum or if the cost of garbage, policing e.t.c is $2,000 a year and your kids go to college late in life. How is any of the stuff free?

So much rona dhona over mere Rs 2000 tax if you earn Rs 600,000 - 800,000 a year. Matlab had hai.

These people go out with friends and spend more than that in an evening. Also the guy in the OP has himself said he buys iPhones and Apple products, definitely not part of the middle class as he is trying to portray.

 

[Mian]

So much rona dhona over mere Rs 2000 tax if you earn Rs 600,000 - 800,000 a year. Matlab had hai.

These people go out with friends and spend more than that in an evening. Also the guy in the OP has himself said he buys iPhones and Apple products, definitely not part of the middle class as he is trying to portray.

OP was complaining in another thread a few months ago that he can't buy a new phone because of the high prices well tax on mobile phones are decreased in this budget so he should be happy now!

 

[Zhasan]

[/B]

There is no bigger hypocrite than an expat Pakistani who has no intentions of coming back to Pakistan.

Pakistan's biggest and only reliable source of income/dollars is the remittances sent by expat Pakistanis...

To be bashing those whose handouts corrupt elites in Pakistan have been feeding on and squandering is the least expected of these egregious and callous people...

 

[RickyG]

[/B]

There is no bigger hypocrite than an expat Pakistani who has no intentions of coming back to Pakistan.

Beg to differ. No bigger hypocrite than someone from a very well-off background that blames Imran Khan for the foreign debt and then complains when he is asked to pay taxes on his presumably high income.

You’ll continue to defend ppp/pml-n because they allowed you to fill your coffers without needing to put anything towards public spending. That money was borrowed in the name of the country you live in so you need to find a way to paying that back.

Stop blaming expats for the problems you’ve dug yourself into.

 

[uberkoen]

Typical Pakistani attitude, demands first world benefits from the govt without having to file and pay taxes.

Are you saying Pakistan is providing first world benefits or is planning on providing first world benefits?

 

[aukhan]

I don't see any problem here. Stop whining about everything. Pay taxes for your income.

 

[Jin Chacha]

These western countries with 40% tax rates really do sound horrible. Can't imagine what forces people to leave the motherland and live in such abject poverty abroad.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

These western countries with 40% tax rates really do sound horrible. Can't imagine what forces people to leave the motherland and live in such abject poverty abroad.

Because we get our worth of tax paid through infrastructure and modern facilities but we whine because not all of them can be fully utilised.
If I'm paying 40% tax just for cheap healthcare and don't even get sick for the whole year my 40% contribution will hurt like hell and rightly so.

People in Pakistan have no idea how tough it is to live and establish yourself overseas just for the sake of better education, security etc.

All they see is "dollaron main kama raha hai larrka"

 

[Jin Chacha]

Because we get our worth of tax paid through infrastructure and modern facilities but we whine because not all of them can be fully utilised.
If I'm paying 40% tax just for cheap healthcare and don't even get sick for the whole year my 40% contribution will hurt like hell and rightly so.

People in Pakistan have no idea how tough it is to live and establish yourself overseas just for the sake of better education, security etc.

All they see is "dollaron main kama raha hai larrka"

It was a sarcastic comment and what you are saying is sort of the point I was making. I am not saying living in the west is easy but I find it ridiculous when people compare taxation in the developed world with Pakistan. Completely different set of problems.

 

[Mamoon]

Beg to differ. No bigger hypocrite than someone from a very well-off background that blames Imran Khan for the foreign debt and then complains when he is asked to pay taxes on his presumably high income.

You’ll continue to defend ppp/pml-n because they allowed you to fill your coffers without needing to put anything towards public spending. That money was borrowed in the name of the country you live in so you need to find a way to paying that back.

Stop blaming expats for the problems you’ve dug yourself into.

No one is blaming Imran for the economic mess, but the circus that PTI has been so far, it appears that they don’t have what it takes to steer the country in the right direction.

Imran is too focused on corruption but less on building competencies. He has got his priorities wrong - countries are not build on honesty but on competency. If you are not cut for a job, you will bring no value even if you don’t do a rupee of corruption.

India’s example is in front of us. They have rampant corruption, but they have focused on building skills and competencies that have allowed their economy to grow.

It is Imran’s lack of focus on competency that has resulted in someone like Fawad Chaudhry spearheading Science and Tech, Firdous Awan running her mouth in Info Ministry and a former PPP Finance Minister, who brought the economy to ruins as per Imran, is now taking control of finances in PTI’s government.

Imran is a walking, talking irony. Unfortunately, his brainwashed followers are too blind to see. They cannot come to terms with reality even if it hits them flush in the face, because they have been hypnotized by rhetoric.

 

[shah_1]

After all the increase in tax collection and there is a decrease in HEC and health budget by half. How can PTI blind supporters support this?

Bhai pasio toh logao if you are taking our money and spend it on us

Before they say I'm lying

https://nation.com.pk/12-Jun-2019/deep-cut-in-health-budget
https://nation.com.pk/12-Jun-2019/govt-drastically-cuts-allocations-for-hec



And more cuts
Budget 2019-20: allocation for education, services reduced by 20.5 percent
https://fp.brecorder.com/2019/06/20190612485340/

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan's biggest and only reliable source of income/dollars is the remittances sent by expat Pakistanis...

To be bashing those whose handouts corrupt elites in Pakistan have been feeding on and squandering is the least expected of these egregious and callous people...

Expats send money to Pakistan to their families and not to boost the economy. The benefit that the economy derives from the inflow of dollars is a consequence of people helping their families, and not because that is the intention of the expats when they send money.

If expats really care about the future of this country beyond showing patriotism over the Internet, they would send their honest and competent children back to their homeland to serve their country.

Brain drain has been a massive problem for Pakistan as well as the rest of the underdeveloped world. The best doctors, engineers, bankers, accountants, economists, IT specialists etc. all leave the country to serve western economies.

Unfortunately, no one is willing to walk the talk. Why do something practical when you came make yourself good over the Internet and take the moral high ground by claiming that you are helping the economy by sending dollars home to your families.

 

[Mamoon]

Expat Pakistani's pay more taxes abroad vs the taxes in Pakistan. That is why they are laughing at the people crying about increase in taxes even though it is nothing compared to the taxes people pay in the West

You pay more taxes in the West, but you also get more services in return compared to Pakistan.

In Pakistan, the public and the government are caught up in a vicious cycle. The government is not able to properly utilize tax revenue because they are incompetent.

I won’t talk about corruption here, because even if the government puts a significant portion of tax revenue into its pocket, it will still be able to give something back as long as they are the capability.

Unfortunately in Pakistan, we have failed to build competencies, so the tax revenue that is utilized for social services doesn’t have as big an impact as one would hope.

Even the most corrupt government doesn’t put 100% of the tax revenue into its pocket.

The other problem for Pakistan is that the people don’t pay taxes because the government is corrupt. This is a poor justification because paying taxes is an obligation independent of the government.

What people don’t realize that by withholding taxes, they are contributing to the incompetence of the government.

People are delusional if they think Imran will break this cycle. He is not focused on competency and neither will people pay taxes because he is the PM.

 

[amvbfm]

Next to nothing for health care and education? Brother the taxes we pay end up paying for it, even then Pakistani's abroad have to pay an exhorbitant amount worth thousands of $ for things not covered by govt health insurance. Some colleges and Universities are not covered by government loan programs which you have to pay back anyways. I know of many Pakistani's and Indians how go back to Pakistan and India for certain medical treatments like dental treatments, cosmetic treatments because it is dirt cheap back home in comparison to the West.

And in any case, its not like housing or rent is cheap in the West either. Saving money is hard in Canada, USA and UK as well. In the US a family can easily go bankrupt if someone requires hospitalization and is hospitalized for 2-3 weeks. People in Pakistan are under the misconception that life is easy abroad in greener pastures.

No doubt you pay exorbitant amounts but as i said earlier please don't compare those tax rates with Pakistan. Regardless of whether you use the healthcare service or not you ARE covered which is what really matters. In Pakistan

- You will pay for the education of your children and the fees of private schools and universities is obscene (i know you will say it is the same in the West but there you do have other options and while they might not be the best they are way better than what we get with our government schools and universities)
- You will pay for the healthcare of your family
- You will not get even get basic public infrastructure like roads and transport let alone things like parks, libraries etc
- And after all that you will have to save for rainy days and post-retirement

The point is, even if I am paying 20% tax on my income I am not getting a penny's worth out of it. Even then I do not have a problem paying taxes as long as all segments of the society are being taxed equitably.

As for your argument about services being cheap in Pakistan, it is because you are thinking in dollar terms, in PKR terms they are still quite expensive for locals. I am under no misconception about greener pastures abroad but you just can't compare the services that your tax money gets abroad to those you get in a country like Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

Expats send money to Pakistan to their families and not to boost the economy. The benefit that the economy derives from the inflow of dollars is a consequence of people helping their families, and not because that is the intention of the expats when they send money.

You really have no idea what drives economies do you? Consumer spending is the largest contributor to an economy, and expats sending money to Pakistan families, means said families have money to spend!

 

[Mamoon]

You really have no idea what drives economies do you? Consumer spending is the largest contributor to an economy, and expats sending money to Pakistan families, means said families have money to spend!

As I said, they don’t send the money to contribute to the economy. They send the money so that their families can live a good life. Whatever the benefit is to the economy is an indirect consequence, since that is not their intention in the first place.

This overemphasis on remittance is a result of their attempt to compensate for the fact that in spite of showing their patriotism over the Internet, they are not prepared to walk the talk.

They come up with a billion excuses for why they or their children cannot return to Pakistan and serve their country. They are well aware of their hypocrisy, so they try to clear their conscience by putting out that the economy is benefitting from the money that they send to their families.

 

[Technics 1210]

As I said, they don’t send the money to contribute to the economy. They send the money so that their families can live a good life. Whatever the benefit is to the economy is an indirect consequence, since that is not their intention in the first place.

This overemphasis on remittance is a result of their attempt to compensate for the fact that in spite of showing their patriotism over the Internet, they are not prepared to walk the talk.

They come up with a billion excuses for why they or their children cannot return to Pakistan and serve their country. They are well aware of their hypocrisy, so they try to clear their conscience by putting out that the economy is benefitting from the money that they send to their families.

I am saying sending money back to Pakistan does boost the economy. The good life in Pakistan costs money, and consumer spending drives economy expansion.

It is easy to point the finger at patriots over the internet, and we can only speculate when it comes to their contribution to Pakistan, but what are you doing for Pakistan instead of belittling, criticizing, abusing, a nation, which you categorically state are unfortunate of? You are even prepared if given the opportunity to move out of Pakistan!

 

[Technics 1210]

The salaried class is not complaining about the amount of tax so all these comparisons with other countries are irrelevant. The salaried class is complaining about the injustice of squeezing them even further when they are the only ones that pay tax. I don't understand why people become so defensive about this issue because no one is blaming IK or PTI for it. Any govt would have done the same because there is no other choice.

This is the case in almost every nation, the Lower to Middle class are the ones who are the first targets of any tax increases simply because the middle class are the economy and in greater numbers which means more tax revenue.

In the UK and USA, the governments dare not tax the upper class because the first threat is they will move their money out of the USA/UK, and become domicile in an other country to avoid taxes.

The first step to a prosperous economy is to move away from a USD based system and to a Gold standard OR currency issued by the government and not a central bank. The cost of living is not the result of increase in value, but the depreciation in value causing prices to move up - inflation. Currency issued by the government is interest free, compared to the government borrowing with interest.

Central banking system is the problem, not the taxes.

 

[Technics 1210]

You pay more taxes in the West, but you also get more services in return compared to Pakistan.

Name the services.

State Pension? I have to wait till I am 70 before I can claim any state pension, and this age is not even set in stone. In next year's budget it can go up to 71! It's an ever moving target.

Free Health care? No such thing. NI contributions ensure the NHS is not free, it comes out of the tax payers pocket.

I pay 45% tax. Yes 45%. It is a myth I get free services, when the reality is I actually pay for said services through my taxes, moreover, the services which matter to me are only applicable when I am of 70!

Reality is if I want a private Pension at 55, I got to pay into a private pension from my disposable income. If I want to get ahead of the medical treatment queue, I got to pay for it.

This is how my taxes were distributed for the previous financial year (APR 2018 to APR 2019)

 

[aqeelPK]

Now all Pakistanis living in Pakistan are getting to witness what horrible mistake Khan is.

Mistakes happen. We are not PTI leaders i mean angels. Greatness is in accepting your mistakes & correcting them.

 

[Savak]

Name the services.

State Pension? I have to wait till I am 70 before I can claim any state pension, and this age is not even set in stone. In next year's budget it can go up to 71! It's an ever moving target.

Free Health care? No such thing. NI contributions ensure the NHS is not free, it comes out of the tax payers pocket.

I pay 45% tax. Yes 45%. It is a myth I get free services, when the reality is I actually pay for said services through my taxes, moreover, the services which matter to me are only applicable when I am of 70!

Reality is if I want a private Pension at 55, I got to pay into a private pension from my disposable income. If I want to get ahead of the medical treatment queue, I got to pay for it.

This is how my taxes were distributed for the previous financial year (APR 2018 to APR 2019)

View attachment 92423

Exactly these people in Pakistan who are currently screaming about new deductions from their salary would be absolutely screaming seeing the source deductions from their pay cheques in a full fledged welfare state like the UK.

IK is trying to establish an Islamic Welfare State in the long run. The people of Pakistan need to pitch in and pay their dues. They cant demand that the govt provide them with first world facilities, benefits but refuse to pay for it. Tax Evasion, Non compliance needs to be made punishable by death across the board

 

[Jin Chacha]

This is the case in almost every nation, the Lower to Middle class are the ones who are the first targets of any tax increases simply because the middle class are the economy and in greater numbers which means more tax revenue.

You are talking about developed economies. Pakistan has a tiny middle class. The whole problem is that we are trying to squeeze the tax revenues of the whole country from this tiny salaried class. Most developed countries have significantly more people in middle income groups with much more economic and political clout than in Pakistan. Expecting less the 10% of the population to contribute the major chunk of tax revenues is not a sustainable solution. In any case this is not a political issue but a long term structural issue.

 

[Technics 1210]

You are talking about developed economies. Pakistan has a tiny middle class. The whole problem is that we are trying to squeeze the tax revenues of the whole country from this tiny salaried class. Most developed countries have significantly more people in middle income groups with much more economic and political clout than in Pakistan. Expecting less the 10% of the population to contribute the major chunk of tax revenues is not a sustainable solution. In any case this is not a political issue but a long term structural issue.

Pakistan has the 18th largest middle class in the world.

http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/20...ng-middle-class-pushing-up-consumer-spending/

 

[amvbfm]

Exactly these people in Pakistan who are currently screaming about new deductions from their salary would be absolutely screaming seeing the source deductions from their pay cheques in a full fledged welfare state like the UK.

IK is trying to establish an Islamic Welfare State in the long run. The people of Pakistan need to pitch in and pay their dues. They cant demand that the govt provide them with first world facilities, benefits but refuse to pay for it. Tax Evasion, Non compliance needs to be made punishable by death across the board

Don't you think that just like you guys know the ground realities in UK better than us, we as life time residents of Pakistan know the situation here better than you? Or just because IK can do no wrong, we have to accept your version of the "Pakistani reality"?

 

[Technics 1210]

Pakistan has the 18th largest middle class in the world.

http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/20...ng-middle-class-pushing-up-consumer-spending/

Forgot to add, Pakistan's middle class is not tiny. It represents almost 25% of the population, and this after 50% of the economy is undocumented.

Guess what the established middle class as a % of the UK is? Yup, 25% : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey

So I stand by what I said, the Middle class are always targeted.

 

[aqeelPK]

Don't you think that just like you guys know the ground realities in UK better than us, we as life time residents of Pakistan know the situation here better than you? Or just because IK can do no wrong, we have to accept your version of the "Pakistani reality"?

Get ready for personal abuse firing.

 

[Jin Chacha]

Pakistan has the 18th largest middle class in the world.

http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/20...ng-middle-class-pushing-up-consumer-spending/

Read the article again. 18th largest in terms of numbers but at around 6 million people comes to less than 5% of the total population of 200 million.

 

[Technics 1210]

Don't you think that just like you guys know the ground realities in UK better than us, we as life time residents of Pakistan know the situation here better than you? Or just because IK can do no wrong, we have to accept your version of the "Pakistani reality"?

It's got nothing to do with politics, but the implementation of a tried and tested taxation system. Claiming people in the West have better services because the economies are developed is a myth. People in the West pay for services - nothing is for free in the West.

What is known is that corruption is a disease in Pakistan and many people have benefited from corruption - just one of the ground realities. Other ground realities include 0.57% of Pakistanis of pay taxes!

What IK is trying to do is to implement a tax system, collect tax from more Pakistanis. There is nothing wrong in this. Those who oppose IL on the other hand are now having to rely on other sources of income other than corruption.