The NHS (UK) thread

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

 

[emranabbas]

A Lot of out doctors migrated to Australia and other countries for a better pay package we can't entirely blame it all on immigration.

 

[Captain caveman]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

I bet if you were seriously ill, you wouldnt care what the doctors name was, as long as they were competent.

We should be investing more in universities, creating more places for doctors and nurses, as the talent is there but not enough university places for doctors and nursing bursaries been cut for student nurses, have causd a decline in the number of people applying.
It also allows international doctors and nurses to stay in their own country and treat their own people, something that we are depriving those countries of.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I bet if you were seriously ill, you wouldnt care what the doctors name was, as long as they were competent.

We should be investing more in universities, creating more places for doctors and nurses, as the talent is there but not enough university places for doctors and nursing bursaries been cut for student nurses, have causd a decline in the number of people applying.
It also allows international doctors and nurses to stay in their own country and treat their own people, something that we are depriving those countries of.

Britain led the world in medicine and nursing before the influx of immigrants. Why do we now need to rely on immigration to address a problem which was never there previously?

 

[shortbread]

Blame Labour......

They turned working class towns into unemployed benefits sucking pockets.

There is a dreath for staff in the NHS, but very few of the youngsters in impoverished neighbourhoods want to do the hard grind and get qualified!

It's easier to complain about the benefits cap, immigrants, NHS waiting times etc. Need to pull their socks up and become more productive.

Benefits was supposed to create social harmony, instead it's created thousands of lazy populace.

 

[Captain caveman]

Britain led the world in medicine and nursing before the influx of immigrants. Why do we now need to rely on immigration to address a problem which was never there previously?

I told you, not enough university places for medicine compared to the increasing size of the population and emigration of home grown doctors to places like australia.
Cuts in bursaries for student nurses, making it unaffordable for many to take up a career in nursing.
We have the talent, we just need the investment. It will take a decade or so to overturn if the political will power is shown, but its much cheaper to recruit already trained doctors and nurses from abroad then to train homegrown ones, so the political will, may well not be there.

 

[IMMY69]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

Your post made me chuckle.

I think partly it’s down to an aging population and influx of people (open European borders) which the NHS simply can’t cope with. Add to this extreme mismanagement, billions go into it and you can throw 10X that amount but unless it is managed properly it will always operate inefficiently

 

[miandadrules]

Disgusting bigotry, albeit expected from the TS.

As always he has provided overwhelming evidence to support his statement, which he has obviously gained from great research.

 

[Sidilicious]

Quite a sickening post. How do people even look at the colour of the skin of the person treating them?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I told you, not enough university places for medicine compared to the increasing size of the population and emigration of home grown doctors to places like australia.
Cuts in bursaries for student nurses, making it unaffordable for many to take up a career in nursing.
We have the talent, we just need the investment. It will take a decade or so to overturn if the political will power is shown, but its much cheaper to recruit already trained doctors and nurses from abroad then to train homegrown ones, so the political will, may well not be there.

That's funny you should mention English doctors going to Australia. I would guess a fair few head for NZ and the US as well. So in a way, immigration is still the cause, although maybe going the other way. That did make me think, we don't often hear that side of it.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

This has to be satire or some kind of joke right?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This has to be satire or some kind of joke right?

Slightly tongue in cheek, but there is some truth to it. With Boris winning another term on the back of Brexit I feel it's a legitimate concern.

https://www.bma.org.uk/news/2017/may/in-fear-of-a-racist-revival

 

[Slim]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

You are sounding like Trump here..

 

[Manunited18]

Blame Labour......

They turned working class towns into unemployed benefits sucking pockets.

There is a dreath for staff in the NHS, but very few of the youngsters in impoverished neighbourhoods want to do the hard grind and get qualified!

It's easier to complain about the benefits cap, immigrants, NHS waiting times etc. Need to pull their socks up and become more productive.

Benefits was supposed to create social harmony, instead it's created thousands of lazy populace.

Have to agree with that, the benefit system here is a loop hole for lazy itous

 

[JaDed]

That's funny you should mention English doctors going to Australia. I would guess a fair few head for NZ and the US as well. So in a way, immigration is still the cause, although maybe going the other way. That did make me think, we don't often hear that side of it.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION].. your inputs?

 

[Bosanquet]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

This is so diabolically stupid on so many counts that it is far beyond your usual trolling! I am beginning to think that you may actually believe some of this excrement that spouts from your keyboard.

Let me focus on the question of doctors - I feel more qualified here since I have been directly involved in physician recruitment for my hospitals over the past 20 years. Yes, we unequivocally need foreign born doctors. 26% of NHS doctors are from outside UK. That's right - 1 in 4. And that's not even counting the ones called Varun or Sri who were both born in UK and are just as British as you.

Here are some names - John, Sabiha, Kai, Mohammed, Arjan, Arash, Ingrid, Sanjay, Nick, Katherine, Sundeep & Raj. They have all been my trainees (specialist registrars) in a sought after speciality in a large London university hospital. And they are all British(apart from one Scandinavian). Notice something? - just how few are called Roger or John? Fact is, your Johns and Rogers, if they are clever and hard working enough to get into Oxbridge, UCL, Kings or Imperial college (and I have studied, trained or worked at 4 of these places), then they do Math/Physics/Economics and go into banks and investment firms to make real money. They no longer want the daily grind of a doctor's life where it takes 15- 20 years to become a consultant on a half-decent salary.

So Captain, the NHS is inevitably going to become more & more brown/black/yellow etc and Mrs Mayweather/Rishwat are going to have to like it or lump it.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Geez I can understand 2100£ per month is mouth watering stuff for someone as qualified as the OP, but for most doctors in a metropolis in India that’s peanuts. Unless you are just a GP without any specialisation, almost all top doctors I know make much more than this in Mumbai. The OP probably needs to visit the parking lot of any hospital in mumbai and see the cars parked there owned by doctors. But I doubt he will get a visa though. Ohh my

 

[Bosanquet]

Britain led the world in medicine and nursing before the influx of immigrants. Why do we now need to rely on immigration to address a problem which was never there previously?

Britain has not "led" the world in medicine in the past 100 years. Certainly since WW2 USA has lead medical research by a very large margin. You only need to look at the citation indices and the rankings of the medical journals to realise that.
What the NHS did do was to be top ranked amongst 10 - 12 comparable healthcare systems for at least 6 - 8 years between 2008 -15. This was in studies published by the Commonwealth fund (go look it up if you are at all interested) comparing the healthcare system in wealthy countries including France, germany, USA, canada, australia etc. We were extremely proud of that at the time. And of course, the NHS was full of "immigrant" staff during these years.

BTW, I once had a (white, racist) patient discharged without the procedure he had been admitted for because he demanded that I perform the investigation rather than my (brown) SpR. Fortunately he was not smart - if he had said that he wanted the consultant to do the job rather than refusing to be treated by a "foreigner" then I would have had to do as he asked. So, I suggest you tell your Mrs mayweather how to go about things.

 

[Bosanquet]

Geez I can understand 2100£ per month is mouth watering stuff for someone as qualified as the OP, but for most doctors in a metropolis in India that’s peanuts. Unless you are just a GP without any specialisation, almost all top doctors I know make much more than this in Mumbai. The OP probably needs to visit the parking lot of any hospital in mumbai and see the cars parked there owned by doctors. But I doubt he will get a visa though. Ohh my

Not sure where you came across the £2100 figure. The average pay for a GP or consultant in UK is around £8000 per month. This is not a particularly large salary for what they do, but it is a bit more than £2000. There is also a generous pension scheme.

 

[Bosanquet]

Quite a sickening post. How do people even look at the colour of the skin of the person treating them?

You'd be surprised. Let's not even think about any large A&E during evening/night shifts where racial abuse occurs daily and we require constant security presence. Let's talk about sober patients in hospital beds or the out-patient department. Many is the time when nurses have had to tell patients that " no, you are not entitled to be treated by a 'British' (ie white) doctor and will have to see the black or brown one".

I have been told by secretaries that patients will phone up and ask to be seen specifically by particular doctors - ones with names that are 'English' and NOT by Drs Patel, Khan or Oludube. I have even once instantly discharged a man who - to my face - told me that he wanted me to perform the procedure he was admitted for rather than my clearly south asian registrar. Curiously, that same registrar is actually British, went to Cambridge to study medicine and is now a consultant in a London Universty hospital and I fully expect him to become a professor of cardiology within the next few years - a real high-flier.

And finally let me present the man in my CCU who said - in front of a team consisting of 4 doctors, 2 nurses, an imaging technician and one kitchen assistant, all but 1 of whom were "ethnic" - that he couldn't stand the "filthy foreign food" on the menu and to get him something English. This happened a few months after the referendum vote. I couldn't discharge him since he would quite likely have died but I did ensure that he got boiled potato, carrots and beans and fish for the next couple of days.

One can only laugh!

 

[Captain caveman]

That's funny you should mention English doctors going to Australia. I would guess a fair few head for NZ and the US as well. So in a way, immigration is still the cause, although maybe going the other way. That did make me think, we don't often hear that side of it.

With globalization, the world is just one big merry go round!

 

[Captain caveman]

You'd be surprised. Let's not even think about any large A&E during evening/night shifts where racial abuse occurs daily and we require constant security presence. Let's talk about sober patients in hospital beds or the out-patient department. Many is the time when nurses have had to tell patients that " no, you are not entitled to be treated by a 'British' (ie white) doctor and will have to see the black or brown one".

I have been told by secretaries that patients will phone up and ask to be seen specifically by particular doctors - ones with names that are 'English' and NOT by Drs Patel, Khan or Oludube. I have even once instantly discharged a man who - to my face - told me that he wanted me to perform the procedure he was admitted for rather than my clearly south asian registrar. Curiously, that same registrar is actually British, went to Cambridge to study medicine and is now a consultant in a London Universty hospital and I fully expect him to become a professor of cardiology within the next few years - a real high-flier.

And finally let me present the man in my CCU who said - in front of a team consisting of 4 doctors, 2 nurses, an imaging technician and one kitchen assistant, all but 1 of whom were "ethnic" - that he couldn't stand the "filthy foreign food" on the menu and to get him something English. This happened a few months after the referendum vote. I couldn't discharge him since he would quite likely have died but I did ensure that he got boiled potato, carrots and beans and fish for the next couple of days.

One can only laugh!

Fair enough Doc, but let me give the patients side of the story, some of these foreign doctors, especially indian ones, even though passing tests including english tests to practice in the uk, speak so fast and in such a thick accent, you cannot understand a word they say and if you ask them to speak a little slower, they get offended.
I walked into one doctor's surgery with a south indian doctor and asked him if he washed his hands before he was about to examine me(i had seen he clearly hadn't) he started arguing with me.
Then theres the case of asking an overseas doctor questions about your illness, one african doctor examined me and gave me a prescription without any discussion of what my illness was, so i started to question him about why i was ill and you could see him getting agitated over simple questions and giving really unsatisfactory answers.

So to sum up, in SOME oversea doctors, especially from india and africa, you get poor communication skills and poor bedside manner and i forgot to mention, lack of or no empathy.
I say SOME because i have also seen some brilliant indian and african doctors too, but there certainly a higher portion who are poor.

 

[Bosanquet]

Fair enough Doc, but let me give the patients side of the story, some of these foreign doctors, especially indian ones, even though passing tests including english tests to practice in the uk, speak so fast and in such a thick accent, you cannot understand a word they say and if you ask them to speak a little slower, they get offended.
I walked into one doctor's surgery with a south indian doctor and asked him if he washed his hands before he was about to examine me(i had seen he clearly hadn't) he started arguing with me.
Then theres the case of asking an overseas doctor questions about your illness, one african doctor examined me and gave me a prescription without any discussion of what my illness was, so i started to question him about why i was ill and you could see him getting agitated over simple questions and giving really unsatisfactory answers.

So to sum up, in SOME oversea doctors, especially from india and africa, you get poor communication skills and poor bedside manner and i forgot to mention, lack of or no empathy.
I say SOME because i have also seen some brilliant indian and african doctors too, but there certainly a higher portion who are poor.

You are entitled to your personal opinion and are referring to your personal experience of a handful of doctors. I have studied, worked in and trained doctors in the NHS for nearly 35 years and am personally responsible for the training of approximately 40 junior doctors per year in my role as TPD (training program director) at my hospital and far larger numbers in my role with the regional training body.
In my experience of literally thousands of trainees, doctors with unintelligible accents are few and far between. There are, of course, doctors who are incompetent and poorly trained but that has never been the province of any one country. I have come across poorly performing doctors from every community. Somehow, you (and Cpt R) appear to have a bias against Indians - I wonder why? Some form of racism perhaps? I suspect I might have had difficulties with you or C.R if you turned up in my clinic and had to see one of my African or Indian trainees.

I have actually noted that Indians as a whole speak better English than the Italians, Spanish, Greeks, Eastern Europeans, Nigerians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Some of them have thicker accents than others and do tend to speak quite quickly. The latter is easily corrected through sensitive feedback. The best English is spoken by Scandinavians, Germans & Dutch and even they often have quite marked accents, as do the French. I personally find a strong Glaswegian accent almost indecipherable. So it is not just 'foreigners' who have thick accents.

Lack of empathy is of course unacceptable in a clinician and should really be screened out at an early stage of their careers. Unfortunately some get through. Again not unique to any 1 community. Here may I mention Harold - he with the kindly face cited by CR - full name Harold Shipman - the friendly faced ENGLISH GP who turned out to be the greatest mass-murderer in UK history; responsible for bumping off around 250 people, mostly elderly women. Perhaps Mrs Mayweather was one of them Cpt R?

So no - I DO NOT BUY your contention about doctors especially from Africa and India. I suspect you came across more than your fair share of incompetent/linguistically inadequate physicians. Or perhaps you are just biased against certain communities. Or both.

 

[Captain caveman]

You are entitled to your personal opinion and are referring to your personal experience of a handful of doctors. I have studied, worked in and trained doctors in the NHS for nearly 35 years and am personally responsible for the training of approximately 40 junior doctors per year in my role as TPD (training program director) at my hospital and far larger numbers in my role with the regional training body.
In my experience of literally thousands of trainees, doctors with unintelligible accents are few and far between. There are, of course, doctors who are incompetent and poorly trained but that has never been the province of any one country. I have come across poorly performing doctors from every community. Somehow, you (and Cpt R) appear to have a bias against Indians - I wonder why? Some form of racism perhaps? I suspect I might have had difficulties with you or C.R if you turned up in my clinic and had to see one of my African or Indian trainees.

I have actually noted that Indians as a whole speak better English than the Italians, Spanish, Greeks, Eastern Europeans, Nigerians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Some of them have thicker accents than others and do tend to speak quite quickly. The latter is easily corrected through sensitive feedback. The best English is spoken by Scandinavians, Germans & Dutch and even they often have quite marked accents, as do the French. I personally find a strong Glaswegian accent almost indecipherable. So it is not just 'foreigners' who have thick accents.

Lack of empathy is of course unacceptable in a clinician and should really be screened out at an early stage of their careers. Unfortunately some get through. Again not unique to any 1 community. Here may I mention Harold - he with the kindly face cited by CR - full name Harold Shipman - the friendly faced ENGLISH GP who turned out to be the greatest mass-murderer in UK history; responsible for bumping off around 250 people, mostly elderly women. Perhaps Mrs Mayweather was one of them Cpt R?

So no - I DO NOT BUY your contention about doctors especially from Africa and India. I suspect you came across more than your fair share of incompetent/linguistically inadequate physicians. Or perhaps you are just biased against certain communities. Or both.

So i am a racist now for pointing out my personal experiences?
I have a chronic illness from childhood and have been in and out of hospital.for over 40 years, i have been seen by literally thousands of doctors in that time in several cities across the uk, as i travel around the country as i am a contractor, partly due to my illness, i cant do a normal 9 to 5 job,
Anyway, i have justed listed a couple incidents i could have made a list as long as your arm, like the indian doctor who saw me wear a religious necklace on examination and said did your mullah (priesr) give that to you to get better and started to snigger.
Anyway, i am of indian heritage myself.

 

[Captain caveman]

[MENTION=143303]Bosanquet[/MENTION]

Many of my indian friends are of the same view and had similar experiences.
The older generation are ok with indian doctors because they speak the same language, but even they prefer a homegrown doctor.
You do not see these doctors when they practice individually in clinics and hospitals, so you are unaware of their behaviour, its us patients who witness this first hand.
Again, not all but a significant number of overseas doctors are not fit to practice in the uk, in my opinion.

 

[Captain caveman]

I presume the doctor is seeing a patient and not just ran away from this debate.

 

[Bosanquet]

[MENTION=143303]Bosanquet[/MENTION]

Many of my indian friends are of the same view and had similar experiences.
The older generation are ok with indian doctors because they speak the same language, but even they prefer a homegrown doctor.
You do not see these doctors when they practice individually in clinics and hospitals, so you are unaware of their behaviour, its us patients who witness this first hand.
Again, not all but a significant number of overseas doctors are not fit to practice in the uk, in my opinion.

All doctors who train others have to observe their trainees at work - so yes I have observed many hundreds of patient-doctor interactions. We also get literally tens of thousands of patient feedback forms about our trainees. Also feedback from nurses, pharmacists, physiotherapists etc etc about EACH AND EVERY DOCTOR IN THE NHS. Its called a 360 degree assessment. My own such assessments go to other consultants for review. We have robust processes in place to identify poorly performing physicians. This is a nation-wide program and really personal experience counts for litlle against the weight of data regional trainers have access to. We try to enhance training and undertake remedial work in all identified as not meeting expected standards.

You have now enlarged your scope to "overseas doctors" whereas earlier your issues appeared to be with Indian and african ones. Are you now including Germans, Dutch, French, Greek, Scandinavians, Irish & Italians? What I am asking is are you (and your mates) suffering from total xenophobia or are you just biased against a few nationalities? And don't be upset; xenophobia - fear and dislike of people from other places and cultures is extremely common.

 

[Bosanquet]

I presume the doctor is seeing a patient and not just ran away from this debate.

No, I am not working today. I just have a life as well.

 

[Bosanquet]

So i am a racist now for pointing out my personal experiences?
I have a chronic illness from childhood and have been in and out of hospital.for over 40 years, i have been seen by literally thousands of doctors in that time in several cities across the uk, as i travel around the country as i am a contractor, partly due to my illness, i cant do a normal 9 to 5 job,
Anyway, i have justed listed a couple incidents i could have made a list as long as your arm, like the indian doctor who saw me wear a religious necklace on examination and said did your mullah (priesr) give that to you to get better and started to snigger.
Anyway, i am of indian heritage myself.

Did you report this doctor? That comment is totally unacceptable and he (or she) needs remedial training.

Of course, such a comment would be totally OK (and actually quite mild) if it had come from our current, adorable, cuddly, brexiteering PM; don't you think?

BTW to see "literally thousands of doctors" in 40 years you would have needed to see a totally different doctor at least once every week and NEVER been seen by the same doctor twice. Then you would have seen around 2000 doctors. Lucky for you that you are in UK with a free NHS. imagine your insurance premiums in the US!

And no, you are not racist for pointing out your personal experiences; but you can be thought to be racist for generalising your PERSONAL experiences of some individuals to a race or nation as a whole.
That is what racists do - e.g when they claim " immigrants are abusing our hospitals and schools" with not a shred of proof, while entirely forgetting that without said immigrant doctors and nurses the NHS as we know it today would totally collapse.

 

[Captain caveman]

All doctors who train others have to observe their trainees at work - so yes I have observed many hundreds of patient-doctor interactions. We also get literally tens of thousands of patient feedback forms about our trainees. Also feedback from nurses, pharmacists, physiotherapists etc etc about EACH AND EVERY DOCTOR IN THE NHS. Its called a 360 degree assessment. My own such assessments go to other consultants for review. We have robust processes in place to identify poorly performing physicians. This is a nation-wide program and really personal experience counts for litlle against the weight of data regional trainers have access to. We try to enhance training and undertake remedial work in all identified as not meeting expected standards.

You have now enlarged your scope to "overseas doctors" whereas earlier your issues appeared to be with Indian and african ones. Are you now including Germans, Dutch, French, Greek, Scandinavians, Irish & Italians? What I am asking is are you (and your mates) suffering from total xenophobia or are you just biased against a few nationalities? And don't be upset; xenophobia - fear and dislike of people from other places and cultures is extremely common.

Lol!
I know what xenophobia is! If the trainer has such an attitude, then i should not expect much from his trainees.

I have only come acoss home grown doctors or indian and african doctors, never be seen by a german, italian etc so i cant say.
So much for your patient audit forms and text messages, never replied, dont see the point, makes no difference.
And your repeated insinuation that i am racist for complaining is all the proof i need your audits are avwaste of time.

 

[Captain caveman]

Did you report this doctor? That comment is totally unacceptable and he (or she) needs remedial training.

Of course, such a comment would be totally OK (and actually quite mild) if it had come from our current, adorable, cuddly, brexiteering PM; don't you think?

BTW to see "literally thousands of doctors" in 40 years you would have needed to see a totally different doctor at least once every week and NEVER been seen by the same doctor twice. Then you would have seen around 2000 doctors. Lucky for you that you are in UK with a free NHS. imagine your insurance premiums in the US!

And no, you are not racist for pointing out your personal experiences; but you can be thought to be racist for generalising your PERSONAL experiences of some individuals to a race or nation as a whole.
That is what racists do - e.g when they claim " immigrants are abusing our hospitals and schools" with not a shred of proof, while entirely forgetting that without said immigrant doctors and nurses the NHS as we know it today would totally collapse.

I said right at my first post SOME, but you were too eager to insinuate i was a racist.
Also, i pay more tax than i take out of the system and i fully understand the undertone of that comment, ironic as you keep isinuating i am a racist.
Also, theres plenty of evidence of immigrants abusing our hospitals and nhs, if you care to look and is the reason many doctors and hospitals require proof to show you are a british or eu citizen.
Also, the money that is supposed to be return to us from eu countries for treating their patients is vastly in arrears , with some sum outstanding for years.

 

[Captain caveman]

[MENTION=143303]Bosanquet[/MENTION]

Time for this racist(me) to go christmas shopping with the family.

Good day to you doctor!
And a merry chtristmas or is that racist too, i am sorry, Happy Holidays!

 

[Technics 1210]

[MENTION=143303]Bosanquet[/MENTION]

Time for this racist(me) to go christmas shopping with the family.

Good day to you doctor!
And a merry chtristmas or is that racist too, i am sorry, Happy Holidays!

Liberalism has destroyed this country. Asking for a doctor who speaks fluent English is now considered racist by the extreme far left.

Don't worry the day is not far when we will be told to use hand signals instead.

 

[Bosanquet]

Lol!
I know what xenophobia is! If the trainer has such an attitude, then i should not expect much from his trainees.

I have only come acoss home grown doctors or indian and african doctors, never be seen by a german, italian etc so i cant say.
So much for your patient audit forms and text messages, never replied, dont see the point, makes no difference.
And your repeated insinuation that i am racist for complaining is all the proof i need your audits are avwaste of time.

Not sure what you mean by my attitude. I was just wondering about your prejudice against Indians and Africans.
Rather surprised that amongst the thousands of doctors that you claim to have consulted not a single one was anything other than homegrown, Indian and African. Approximately 12% of our doctors are NOT homegrown, Indian or African. So I reckon, if you had REALLY seen 2000 doctors , I would expect more than 200 of them would fall into that group. Ah well, if you say so, IT MUST BE SO.

 

[Bosanquet]

[MENTION=143303]Bosanquet[/MENTION]

Time for this racist(me) to go christmas shopping with the family.

Good day to you doctor!
And a merry chtristmas or is that racist too, i am sorry, Happy Holidays!

I would be delighted to have the chance to be merry this xmas. But cannot imbibe while on cover for emergencies. Ah well, a merry new year awaits.

 

[Bosanquet]

Liberalism has destroyed this country. Asking for a doctor who speaks fluent English is now considered racist by the extreme far left.

Don't worry the day is not far when we will be told to use hand signals instead.

Nothing to do with liberalism or the left. EVERYTHING to do with this country's unwillingness to fund properly sufficient places in medical and nursing colleges to meet our own requirements. Hence we HAVE to bring in staff from far off places to man the service. MOST of these good people can communicate very well. Some require language training which is tested as are their medical skills and knowledge BEFORE they are given a PROVISIONAL license to work. Then they are monitored, trained, taught, continuously assessed amd so on, sometimes for years before permanant license.

And no, we don't think it's racist to ask for a doctor who can speak English - it's when you ask for one who IS English - as many do when told that they are to see a Dr Al-Farah or a Dr Yavari. They will often point to the door that says Dr Jones and ask to see "that doctor".

But of course you may not be interested in letting facts get in the way of a pet prejudice.

And finally - no you are NOT always going to be able to see a doctor who is totally fluent; just as long as they are competent in English. Just as I absolutely do not expect each and every patient to be fluent in English when they come to see me.

 

[Technics 1210]

Nothing to do with liberalism or the left. EVERYTHING to do with this country's unwillingness to fund properly sufficient places in medical and nursing colleges to meet our own requirements. Hence we HAVE to bring in staff from far off places to man the service. MOST of these good people can communicate very well. Some require language training which is tested as are their medical skills and knowledge BEFORE they are given a PROVISIONAL license to work. Then they are monitored, trained, taught, continuously assessed amd so on, sometimes for years before permanant license.

And no, we don't think it's racist to ask for a doctor who can speak English - it's when you ask for one who IS English - as many do when told that they are to see a Dr Al-Farah or a Dr Yavari. They will often point to the door that says Dr Jones and ask to see "that doctor".

But of course you may not be interested in letting facts get in the way of a pet prejudice.

And finally - no you are NOT always going to be able to see a doctor who is totally fluent; just as long as they are competent in English. Just as I absolutely do not expect each and every patient to be fluent in English when they come to see me.

There you go again with your accusation of pet prejudice. Typical Extreme far left trait.

You have no argument, just labels.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is so diabolically stupid on so many counts that it is far beyond your usual trolling! I am beginning to think that you may actually believe some of this excrement that spouts from your keyboard.

Let me focus on the question of doctors - I feel more qualified here since I have been directly involved in physician recruitment for my hospitals over the past 20 years. Yes, we unequivocally need foreign born doctors. 26% of NHS doctors are from outside UK. That's right - 1 in 4. And that's not even counting the ones called Varun or Sri who were both born in UK and are just as British as you.

Here are some names - John, Sabiha, Kai, Mohammed, Arjan, Arash, Ingrid, Sanjay, Nick, Katherine, Sundeep & Raj. They have all been my trainees (specialist registrars) in a sought after speciality in a large London university hospital. And they are all British(apart from one Scandinavian). Notice something? - just how few are called Roger or John? Fact is, your Johns and Rogers, if they are clever and hard working enough to get into Oxbridge, UCL, Kings or Imperial college (and I have studied, trained or worked at 4 of these places), then they do Math/Physics/Economics and go into banks and investment firms to make real money. They no longer want the daily grind of a doctor's life where it takes 15- 20 years to become a consultant on a half-decent salary.

So Captain, the NHS is inevitably going to become more & more brown/black/yellow etc and Mrs Mayweather/Rishwat are going to have to like it or lump it.

Well now...aren't you glad you got to put me right, and at the same time put some facts on the table? You should be thanking me for giving you the opportunity, you won't get to tell that story to the vast majority of the British public.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are sounding like Trump here..

Well, he is President of the USA, and he got put there by an American public that was fed up of seeing their WASP identity eroded by the liberal movement.

We Brits have just seen BoJo appointed to oversee a similar back to basic movement enacted over here, and the first step will be Brexit.

 

[Bosanquet]

Well now...aren't you glad you got to put me right, and at the same time put some facts on the table? You should be thanking me for giving you the opportunity, you won't get to tell that story to the vast majority of the British public.

Those facts will remain on the table whether or not the vast majority of the great british public get to read them or not. In fact, I expect that percentage to rise. Good luck with finding adequate health services wherever you are in old blighty. Your current masters will be hiving off large chunks to the private sector and will continue to underfund public services till they are broken beyond repair. We are in the middle of the worst winter pressures that I have seen in the past decade. And it's only December.

I will be retiring soon. I thank my lucky stars that a lifetime spent in the health service has given me the knowledge and contacts to enable me to look after my family (healthwise) better than 99% of the population. I will not be proud of pulling strings but one does what is required. There are still some perks to being a doctor with old trainees and friends scattered around the country.

Actually Scotland remains a civilised nation which spends what is needed on health and education. So we will be fine in Edinburgh when we move there.

 

[Bosanquet]

There you go again with your accusation of pet prejudice. Typical Extreme far left trait.

You have no argument, just labels.

Did you not spot the first 2 and last paragraphs or did you just choose to ignore them?

 

[Bosanquet]

I said right at my first post SOME, but you were too eager to insinuate i was a racist.
Also, i pay more tax than i take out of the system and i fully understand the undertone of that comment, ironic as you keep isinuating i am a racist.
Also, theres plenty of evidence of immigrants abusing our hospitals and nhs, if you care to look and is the reason many doctors and hospitals require proof to show you are a british or eu citizen.
Also, the money that is supposed to be return to us from eu countries for treating their patients is vastly in arrears , with some sum outstanding for years.

Right - you just brought up how much you have paid in tax. So let us see ... you wrote earlier that you had seen "thousands" of doctors. Let's call that 2000 (a minimum if "thousands" is correct, could be 3000, 4000..). Last time I checked, a few years ago, we were charging primary care £130 to see a 'New' patient and £80 for a follow-up. Let's average that to £100 per appointment. So, just your 2000 appointments cost the NHS £200,000. Now factor in blood tests, xrays , ultrasounds, other imaging and drugs. And a lot of these are more expensive than the doctor. Let's call it another £300,000. That is half million quid. conservatively. So how much tax have you paid? Remember, I don't care either way; it's you who brought it up.

 

[Technics 1210]

Did you not spot the first 2 and last paragraphs or did you just choose to ignore them?

I did read the first two paragraphs. You were doing so well until the 3rd paragraph.

 

[Bosanquet]

I did read the first two paragraphs. You were doing so well until the 3rd paragraph.

Truth hurts does it? Unfortunately facts do not care for your feelings.

 

[Technics 1210]

Truth hurts does it? Unfortunately facts do not care for your feelings.

Yes the 3rd paragraph really hurt me. Such a snowflake I am. Oh pity me. Tree huggers labelling me.

 

[Technics 1210]

Those facts will remain on the table whether or not the vast majority of the great british public get to read them or not. In fact, I expect that percentage to rise. Good luck with finding adequate health services wherever you are in old blighty. Your current masters will be hiving off large chunks to the private sector and will continue to underfund public services till they are broken beyond repair. We are in the middle of the worst winter pressures that I have seen in the past decade. And it's only December.

I will be retiring soon. I thank my lucky stars that a lifetime spent in the health service has given me the knowledge and contacts to enable me to look after my family (healthwise) better than 99% of the population. I will not be proud of pulling strings but one does what is required. There are still some perks to being a doctor with old trainees and friends scattered around the country.

Actually Scotland remains a civilised nation which spends what is needed on health and education. So we will be fine in Edinburgh when we move there.

Poor little you. Retiring soon? You should be thankful to my generation who are funding this pyramid scheme known as the welfare system, to support your retired life.

I'm wasting my taxes funding your pension and for what? Lefty liberalism destruction of society. What a waste.

Move to Scotland asap. You deserve the Haggis and the Kilt.

 

[miandadrules]

The NHS has been undergoing privatisation for decades now, without you even knowing it.

Money that the hospital generates is rarely invested back.

If you truly care about it, you better hold this government to account over the next five years. Boris has been given free reign to gut it.

 

[Captain caveman]

Right - you just brought up how much you have paid in tax. So let us see ... you wrote earlier that you had seen "thousands" of doctors. Let's call that 2000 (a minimum if "thousands" is correct, could be 3000, 4000..). Last time I checked, a few years ago, we were charging primary care £130 to see a 'New' patient and £80 for a follow-up. Let's average that to £100 per appointment. So, just your 2000 appointments cost the NHS £200,000. Now factor in blood tests, xrays , ultrasounds, other imaging and drugs. And a lot of these are more expensive than the doctor. Let's call it another £300,000. That is half million quid. conservatively. So how much tax have you paid? Remember, I don't care either way; it's you who brought it up.

Right i am back and i am taking the gloves off and finishing this once and for all.
Firstly, i do not believe you are a white british male doctor of 60 years of age, who trains oversea doctors, cut the rubbish!
A white senior doctor near retirement age spending the whole of their precious day off on a Pakistani cricket forum , but not even in the cricket forums but on time pass forums, give it a rest, we are not stupid!
You in my opinion are an indian.admin or hr worker, probably at a hospital and thats why you are so upset that i criticised SOME indian doctors for not speaking in a manner which is understandable. Note i said some which you have continued to either ignore or do not have the comprehension skills to understand! Heres my first post to you were i clearly stated SOME!


"Fair enough Doc, but let me give the patients side of the story, some of these foreign doctors, especially indian ones, even though passing tests including english tests to practice in the uk, speak so fast and in such a thick accent, you cannot understand a word they say and if you ask them to speak a little slower, they get offended.
I walked into one doctor's surgery with a south indian doctor and asked him if he washed his hands before he was about to examine me(i had seen he clearly hadn't) he started arguing with me.
Then theres the case of asking an overseas doctor questions about your illness, one african doctor examined me and gave me a prescription without any discussion of what my illness was, so i started to question him about why i was ill and you could see him getting agitated over simple questions and giving really unsatisfactory answers.

So to sum up, in SOME oversea doctors, especially from india and africa, you get poor communication skills and poor bedside manner and i forgot to mention, lack of or no empathy.
I say SOME because i have also seen some brilliant indian and african doctors too, but there certainly a higher portion who are poor."

Yet you have the nerve to repeatedly call me a racist! No you are an ignorant person who does not understand plain english but wants to attack anyone who criticises SOME of your fellow indians!
Well i dont care what you say and dont believe ANYTHING you say!
I will make judgements from my own experiences and not what rubbish you keep spouting!
MANY INDIAN OVERSEAS DOCTORS IN THE UK CANT SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO WORK HERE, IN MY OPINION!
NOTE: i said MANY not ALL!
So you can blabber all the rubbish you want, you can tell us about this fantasy world you live in where you are a senior doctor and you train overseas doctors, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!

And as for calling me a racist, i can call you many nasty names too, but i wont, because i dont need to cover up my deficiencies with insults .

And your condescending posts about reading more books, i dont need to, i have 10 gcses, 3 A levels in chemistry, biology and maths all grade As , a first class honours degree from a uk red brick university, which is part of the russell groups of universities and a masters degree, so you can stick you condscending attitude where the sun does not shine!

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Our health service was designed for our homegrown citizens. Once upon a time Mrs Mayweather would have been attended by a physsician with a kindly face called John or Roger. These days we are lucky if we can even read the name tags. We would get Varun on a good day. Otherwise it might well be Srivanasam Narayaswami.

My question to you: do we really need doctors or nurses from abroad? This used to be a proud profession in this country at one time. Now due to immigration, no one wants to be a nurse any more, and we are relying on doctors from far flung countries where they hand out smarties as medical treatments.

The NHS is underfunded. Doctors in UK leave for down under due to lack of respect and poor working conditions. It is nothing do with immigration.

Doctors from Pakistan, India and Europe are holding the NHS afloat. U.K. doctors are not training to be GPs or consultants in large numbers.

NHS is already being privatised anyway through the back door.

There is no solution; not with current government.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Britain led the world in medicine and nursing before the influx of immigrants. Why do we now need to rely on immigration to address a problem which was never there previously?

9000 tuition fees a year, 5 year degree to be a doctor who would want to have the stress of that debt?

 

[Technics 1210]

The bigger problem are the dungar doctors signing up on false/cheated degrees.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The bigger problem are the dungar doctors signing up on false/cheated degrees.

Don't they have to undergo strict UK exams as well before they are allowed to practice?

 

[Technics 1210]

Don't they have to undergo strict UK exams as well before they are allowed to practice?

Strict? It's a joke.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/information-overseas-doctors

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Strict? It's a joke.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/information-overseas-doctors

You must have heard the old saying, you get what you pay for.

 

[Captain caveman]

Right - you just brought up how much you have paid in tax. So let us see ... you wrote earlier that you had seen "thousands" of doctors. Let's call that 2000 (a minimum if "thousands" is correct, could be 3000, 4000..). Last time I checked, a few years ago, we were charging primary care £130 to see a 'New' patient and £80 for a follow-up. Let's average that to £100 per appointment. So, just your 2000 appointments cost the NHS £200,000. Now factor in blood tests, xrays , ultrasounds, other imaging and drugs. And a lot of these are more expensive than the doctor. Let's call it another £300,000. That is half million quid. conservatively. So how much tax have you paid? Remember, I don't care either way; it's you who brought it up.

Right i spend at least 3/4 times a year admitted in hospital, it was much more when i was younger. Each ward round has at least 1 consultant and 8/9.student doctors or registrars- so 10 doctors. 4 times a year is 40 doctors.

Then theres my primary care centre which has 12 doctors working at any one time t, many are trainee GPs, who leave after a short while and are replaced. So if i go 10 times a year(minimum)you will always see a different doctor. Then theres my actual hospital clinical appointments, where you see different registrars each time so say 5 appointments a year and i go to 3 different clinics thats 15 doctors a year.
So a grand total of 65 doctors a year, lets call it 50 as the lowest figure and bearing it would have been alot more when i was younger, 50 doctors a year for 40 years is 2000 doctors!
This is a conservative figure, like i said before, i was much worse as a child and would have seen many more doctors.
I have not even included the seminars that my consultants request me to attend because of my rare illness. These seminars are where a group of 20+ doctors from around the country specialised in the same field get together.. From childhood i have been going to these seminars were 20+ doctors are examing you at the same time and talking between themselves in medical.terms.
So without doubt, i have seen thousands of doctors in my lifetime!

As far as taxes go, that will be in the next post.

 

[Captain caveman]

Right - you just brought up how much you have paid in tax. So let us see ... you wrote earlier that you had seen "thousands" of doctors. Let's call that 2000 (a minimum if "thousands" is correct, could be 3000, 4000..). Last time I checked, a few years ago, we were charging primary care £130 to see a 'New' patient and £80 for a follow-up. Let's average that to £100 per appointment. So, just your 2000 appointments cost the NHS £200,000. Now factor in blood tests, xrays , ultrasounds, other imaging and drugs. And a lot of these are more expensive than the doctor. Let's call it another £300,000. That is half million quid. conservatively. So how much tax have you paid? Remember, I don't care either way; it's you who brought it up.

Right taxes, not that its any of your business but you clearly show your foolishness when you think an appointment with a doctor costed £100 40 years ago! My dad bought his first semi detached house 40 years ago for £3, 000 and you think an appointment would have cost £100, are you stupid?
Your ridiculously overinflated costs of between £200,000 and 500,000 are just dumb, but i will play you.game, lets go smack bang in the middle, and say the nhs has spent.£300,000 on my treatment over 40 years (even though i had private medical cover for many years when i was employed, i am now a contractor and use the nhs but i will play your game) , i have worked as a professional for nearly 30 years and i have paid more than £300, 000 in taxes in that time. This is not only excluding the years i had private medical insurance from work, but also my father who paid taxes all his life and wouldvl have covered my chipdhood expenses. With the.taxes he paid.
So yes i have paid in much more than i have taken out!.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Quite strange how captain caveman appeared slagging off mirpur at the same time mani1 disappeared. Would have been nice to see both appearing in the same space to give some genuine interaction.

 

[Salma_T]

That's funny you should mention English doctors going to Australia. I would guess a fair few head for NZ and the US as well. So in a way, immigration is still the cause, although maybe going the other way. That did make me think, we don't often hear that side of it.

I am in Sydney and can go to ED in my area and not hear an Australian accent.....all brits and this is 2019 and they are still moving here....so the ones that are qualifying Drs and Nurses are moving overseas shows something is wrong

 

[Captain caveman]

People who want to study medicine and become doctors should only do so because they have a passion to treat and heal the sick .
These people should have compassion, empathy and a selfless motivation to help others.

Unfortunately, in the indian subcontinent, being a doctor is about none of the above, but about prestige and ego and even more worryingly, about MONEY!
thats why so many of these doctors leave their third world country, with millions of poor people in desperate need of their help and head to the UK to make their fortune!
This to me is one of the most despicable acts any one could do!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am in Sydney and can go to ED in my area and not hear an Australian accent.....all brits and this is 2019 and they are still moving here....so the ones that are qualifying Drs and Nurses are moving overseas shows something is wrong

Or maybe they just fancy some sunshine, and getting preferential access to it they are taking the opportunity? I was getting my hair cut and the hairdresser was discussing it with the guy in the next chair. Even cutting hair is apparently a skill which can qualify you for a golden ticket to Aus.

 

[miandadrules]

Right taxes, not that its any of your business but you clearly show your foolishness when you think an appointment with a doctor costed £100 40 years ago! My dad bought his first semi detached house 40 years ago for £3, 000 and you think an appointment would have cost £100, are you stupid?
Your ridiculously overinflated costs of between £200,000 and 500,000 are just dumb, but i will play you.game, lets go smack bang in the middle, and say the nhs has spent.£300,000 on my treatment over 40 years (even though i had private medical cover for many years when i was employed, i am now a contractor and use the nhs but i will play your game) , i have worked as a professional for nearly 30 years and i have paid more than £300, 000 in taxes in that time. This is not only excluding the years i had private medical insurance from work, but also my father who paid taxes all his life and wouldvl have covered my chipdhood expenses. With the.taxes he paid.
So yes i have paid in much more than i have taken out!.

All your taxes went to healthcare?

 

[Bosanquet]

Poor little you. Retiring soon? You should be thankful to my generation who are funding this pyramid scheme known as the welfare system, to support your retired life.

I'm wasting my taxes funding your pension and for what? Lefty liberalism destruction of society. What a waste.

Move to Scotland asap. You deserve the Haggis and the Kilt.

Ooh, that final salary pension (38% of my current salary when I last checked in April), seems to be causing some angst here. Just to apply a smidgeon of balm may I inform you that the doctor's pension scheme is fully funded out of the contributions made by the doctors themselves and by the Trusts that employ us. So really, your tax is paying about half of it. But I suppose even half of quite a large sum is still significant.

Yeah, Scotland is just the place for us lefties. Will get even better after Scots leave the union and rejoin EU. And haggis is DELICIOUS. Specially as part of a Full scottish breakfast. But Kilts too cold for a southern softie like me .

 

[Technics 1210]

Ooh, that final salary pension (38% of my current salary when I last checked in April), seems to be causing some angst here. Just to apply a smidgeon of balm may I inform you that the doctor's pension scheme is fully funded out of the contributions made by the doctors themselves and by the Trusts that employ us. So really, your tax is paying about half of it. But I suppose even half of quite a large sum is still significant.

Yeah, Scotland is just the place for us lefties. Will get even better after Scots leave the union and rejoin EU. And haggis is DELICIOUS. Specially as part of a Full scottish breakfast. But Kilts too cold for a southern softie like me .

Why waste your efforts in agreeing with what I have said? My generation funds your pension, and when you are an OAP you might even get the opportunity to vote in Indyref2.

 

[Captain caveman]

All your taxes went to healthcare?

Obviously not duh!
But i have MORE than covered everything!

 

[TheSaint]

Ooh, that final salary pension (38% of my current salary when I last checked in April), seems to be causing some angst here. Just to apply a smidgeon of balm may I inform you that the doctor's pension scheme is fully funded out of the contributions made by the doctors themselves and by the Trusts that employ us. So really, your tax is paying about half of it. But I suppose even half of quite a large sum is still significant.

Yeah, Scotland is just the place for us lefties. Will get even better after Scots leave the union and rejoin EU. And haggis is DELICIOUS. Specially as part of a Full scottish breakfast. But Kilts too cold for a southern softie like me .

Love the adult response. No point arguing with the young and restless. Take care my friend and enjoy your retirement. I cannot wait for the time. I am in the same boat as you and involved heavily in training both undergraduate and post graduate medical graduates and the public perception is generally still good except for some High acheiving and brilliant keyboard entitled warriors, who do not have a clue.

Keep smiling.

 

[Captain caveman]

Why waste your efforts in agreeing with what I have said? My generation funds your pension, and when you are an OAP you might even get the opportunity to vote in Indyref2.

CLASSIC!
These people need to be put in their place, have done everything to try and stop brexit, but their world will fall apart on Jan 31st when we get our FREEDOM!

 

[Bosanquet]

Why waste your efforts in agreeing with what I have said? My generation funds your pension, and when you are an OAP you might even get the opportunity to vote in Indyref2.

Yeah, thanks for the handout. 'Your generation' is also paying/has paid for our 7 figure (untaxed) profits on our london homes which we sold last summer. Large detacheds in Edinburgh cost the same as an apaartment in south london - oh the joy of it!
But there is a silver lining for you - some of it will go to your generation (our son in this instance) after we shuffle off this mortal coil. Of course I am in no hurry.

 

[MenInG]

Fair enough Doc, but let me give the patients side of the story, some of these foreign doctors, especially indian ones, even though passing tests including english tests to practice in the uk, speak so fast and in such a thick accent, you cannot understand a word they say and if you ask them to speak a little slower, they get offended.
I walked into one doctor's surgery with a south indian doctor and asked him if he washed his hands before he was about to examine me(i had seen he clearly hadn't) he started arguing with me.
Then theres the case of asking an overseas doctor questions about your illness, one african doctor examined me and gave me a prescription without any discussion of what my illness was, so i started to question him about why i was ill and you could see him getting agitated over simple questions and giving really unsatisfactory answers.

So to sum up, in SOME oversea doctors, especially from india and africa, you get poor communication skills and poor bedside manner and i forgot to mention, lack of or no empathy.
I say SOME because i have also seen some brilliant indian and african doctors too, but there certainly a higher portion who are poor.

Very serious allegations these about washing hands etc...

 

[Captain caveman]

Very serious allegations these about washing hands etc...

And absolutely true!

 

[Bosanquet]

Love the adult response. No point arguing with the young and restless. Take care my friend and enjoy your retirement. I cannot wait for the time. I am in the same boat as you and involved heavily in training both undergraduate and post graduate medical graduates and the public perception is generally still good except for some High acheiving and brilliant keyboard entitled warriors, who do not have a clue.

Keep smiling.

Thanks and I am smiling. 2020 is the year. My divisional director and our director of education both want me to stay on another year, but I really feel it's time to go. This whole year has felt like constant winter pressures.

 

[MenInG]

Thanks and I am smiling. 2020 is the year. My divisional director and our director of education both want me to stay on another year, but I really feel it's time to go. This whole year has felt like constant winter pressures.

Hi

Best we dont discuss our professional lives on this forum.

Thanks

 

[Technics 1210]

Yeah, thanks for the handout. 'Your generation' is also paying/has paid for our 7 figure (untaxed) profits on our london homes which we sold last summer. Large detacheds in Edinburgh cost the same as an apaartment in south london - oh the joy of it!
But there is a silver lining for you - some of it will go to your generation (our son in this instance) after we shuffle off this mortal coil. Of course I am in no hurry.

Oh so you are moving to Scotland to extract more value from your earnings. Oh that's ok, for a minute I thought you were moving to Scotland cos your vote was ignored.

 

[Bosanquet]

Oh so you are moving to Scotland to extract more value from your earnings. Oh that's ok, for a minute I thought you were moving to Scotland cos your vote was ignored.

No we are moving to Scotland because our son studies in edinburgh. And because the scots are still civilised lefties.

 

[Technics 1210]

No we are moving to Scotland because our son studies in edinburgh. And because the scots are still civilised lefties.

Yeah because a Scottish patient will never demand a doctor speak fluent 'English' thus will avoid being labelled a racist.

 

[Captain caveman]

No we are moving to Scotland because our son studies in edinburgh. And because the scots are still civilised lefties.

Edinburgh is such an expensive city to live in, but i guess its easy being a lefty when you are rich.

 

[AFM]

Strict? It's a joke.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/information-overseas-doctors

The PLAB exam is not a joke

 

[AFM]

People who want to study medicine and become doctors should only do so because they have a passion to treat and heal the sick .
These people should have compassion, empathy and a selfless motivation to help others.

Unfortunately, in the indian subcontinent, being a doctor is about none of the above, but about prestige and ego and even more worryingly, about MONEY!
thats why so many of these doctors leave their third world country, with millions of poor people in desperate need of their help and head to the UK to make their fortune!
This to me is one of the most despicable acts any one could do!

Trying to build a better life for you and your family through legitimate channels is a despicable act?

 

[Captain caveman]

Trying to build a better life for you and your family through legitimate channels is a despicable act?

Using a profession.that is supposed to be about helping the sick as a vehicle to get rich, yes.
If you are only interested in money then do some other profession such as merchant banking etc.
Leave medicine for the people who want to help.the sick.

 

[Captain caveman]

Using a profession.that is supposed to be about helping the sick as a vehicle to get rich, yes.
If you are only interested in money then do some other profession such as merchant banking etc.
Leave medicine for the people who want to help.the sick.

Every mercenary that takes up a place in med school, just to use it as a ticket to go abroad to a wealthy country to make a fortune, is taking away one valuable place at med school from someone who actually cares about the sick in their country and could make a difference to these sick peoples lives.
These people are the lowest of the low!

 

[Salma_T]

Or maybe they just fancy some sunshine, and getting preferential access to it they are taking the opportunity? I was getting my hair cut and the hairdresser was discussing it with the guy in the next chair. Even cutting hair is apparently a skill which can qualify you for a golden ticket to Aus.

It is use to be.....a lot of brit hairdressers too! They actively advertise in Uni etc for Dr and the NHS do the same Aus too.