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The Pope: good atheists will go to Heaven

Robert

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”


"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."


So much for Pascal's Wager - I'm in! :angel:
 
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Atheists will have no choice now but to accept the existence of heaven. Well played Mr. Pope well played.
 
Atheists will have no choice now but to accept the existence of heaven. Well played Mr. Pope well played.

That does not follow.

If I were to say that you do not have to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster to be touched by His Noodly Appendage, would you be forced to become a Pastafarian?
 
To be honest, I have more respect for hardline evangelist than politically correct BS like this..... atleast they are truthful about what they actually believe.
 
atheists can't go to heavens unless God wills it.....:moyo

all these popes are fake...just like the Borgia pope
 
To be honest, I have more respect for hardline evangelist than politically correct BS like this..... atleast they are truthful about what they actually believe.

I think the Pope is truthful - but also much more learned than hardline evangelist types, who only know how to follow their exact text and do not understand context.
 
Why would God send anybody to hell?

If he is going to take the revenge than we have to reevaluate his status as a God.
 
God doesnt take revenge.. He just takes the good souls under his fold, and keeps the bad ones away. Hell and Heaven are but the distance from God. Like being in the lap of mother is heaven, and being away from her is hell..same with God.
 
Looks like he is rewriting the Bible. According to the Bible, anyone who refuses to accept Jesus as his Lord and savior will end up in hell.
 
some people just deserve hell and nothing else

I.e. blood sucking politicians and murderers...... and especially those who mess with the poor and defenseless
 
I am relieved.

Since I am born in a Hindu family, I thought I was automatically going to hell. Now I have some hope.
 
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Openness on discussing gays and now this. One religion which is progressing with time TBH. Some might see this as a weakness, to me its a strength. My respect for religions just went up 10 folds
 
To be honest, I have more respect for hardline evangelist than politically correct BS like this..... atleast they are truthful about what they actually believe.

How do you know he doesn't genuinely belief this? Religious texts are always open to multiple interpretaiton. Even if you look at posters here discussing Islam, you will find very few coming to the same conclusion about most rules and laws
 
I am relieved.

Since I am born in a Hindu family, I thought I was automatically going to hell. Now I have some hope.

They are going to cremate you, you're going no-where, don't get your hopes too high. Just plan your next life(avatar) on earth.
 
what does the Pope have to say about bad christians...if he says that good atheists will go to heaven, and bad christians will go to hell, then what is the point of religion, what is the point of church. just do good and go to heaven without having to follow any religion.
sorry Hon'ble Pope, we can see through this statement of yours.
 
How do you know he doesn't genuinely belief this? Religious texts are always open to multiple interpretaiton. Even if you look at posters here discussing Islam, you will find very few coming to the same conclusion about most rules and laws

I will take what the bible actually says over PC interpretations.. there's a reason these kinds of statement are being made now when religion is in a massive decline in Europe and US while rising in impoverished nations like ones in Africa.
 
I will take what the bible actually says over PC interpretations.. there's a reason these kinds of statement are being made now when religion is in a massive decline in Europe and US while rising in impoverished nations like ones in Africa.


Well - IMO because the Western citizens have more education than their forebears, and have rejected literal interpretation of The Bible.
 
^ It doesn't seem too different.This has been the official position of the Catholic Church on non- believers since 1965 -

"Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."
 
That does not follow.

If I were to say that you do not have to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster to be touched by His Noodly Appendage, would you be forced to become a Pastafarian?

:) honestly I don't know what you've written here. Can you please break it in layman terms?
 
:))

Denying the existence of God is a major sin and you expect to get a free pass to heaven? Hahaha good luck with that!
 
:) honestly I don't know what you've written here. Can you please break it in layman terms?

fsm.jpg


He's an imaginary God invented as a thought-experiment to oppose the teaching of creationism in US schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
 
The spaghetti God is funny but who is Dawkins kidding ? He's prone to making up his own weird theories..lookie here -


[utube]BoncJBrrdQ8[/utube]
 
So was Jesus lying when he said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"?
 
Flying spaghetti monster is real ..he will reward us beer and noodles in our heaven
 
No self-respecting atheist would want to go to Heaven. Richard Dawkins would refuse to go to any Heaven that had the Pope as a member.
 
No self-respecting atheist would want to go to Heaven. Richard Dawkins would refuse to go to any Heaven that had the Pope as a member.

I am sure many Christians won't mind sharing heaven with Hitler though.. provided he accepted Jesus before dying. Sinners like Gandhi and Einstein would be put in their rightful place for not accepting Jesus as their lord and savior.
 
Zeus isn't fit to tie shoe laces of Shiva the destroyer..his 3rd eye is weapon of mass destruction

What's your evidence that Shiva exists? I see Zeus in my dreams regularly, he even healed many incurable diseases. Following Shiva will get you sent to hell
 
What's your evidence that Shiva exists? I see Zeus in my dreams regularly, he even healed many incurable diseases. Following Shiva will get you sent to hell

Shiva resides in Kailash mountain in tibbet...he has got swag unlike your fake God Zeus who looks like lord Voldemort and is nothing without his lightning bolt
 
Shiva resides in Kailash mountain in tibbet...he has got swag unlike your fake God Zeus who looks like lord Voldemort and is nothing without his lightning bolt

Shiva= Fail. Zeus is the real deal.



 
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LOL at the pope. The religious leaders continue their infantile obsession with heaven and hell, completely oblivious to the fact that both states exist right here on Earth.
 
LOL at the pope. The religious leaders continue their infantile obsession with heaven and hell, completely oblivious to the fact that both states exist right here on Earth.

Without the fear of hell and greed of heaven, the business of religion won't be doing too well. THe pope would be out of job.
 
Without the fear of hell and greed of heaven, the business of religion won't be doing too well. THe pope would be out of job.

+1

Without heaven or promise of better life in the next attempt, religions will die.
 
I will take what the bible actually says over PC interpretations.. there's a reason these kinds of statement are being made now when religion is in a massive decline in Europe and US while rising in impoverished nations like ones in Africa.

But were religious texts ever meant to be literal? Surely we have brains and reasoning for everything else. You call it PC, I call it progress. Nothing rigid has ever survived the throes of time and progress and civilization and never will
 
LOL at the pope. The religious leaders continue their infantile obsession with heaven and hell, completely oblivious to the fact that both states exist right here on Earth.

Its a step in the right direction to match both extremes IMO. You cannot have a 180 change over-night
 
If they want to believe in heaven and hell nonsense, that's their prerogative but I still don't get is how one person can be completely absolved of all his sins if he/she accept Jesus Christ as the savior and same goes in Islam as well. How is it not a "sin" to lure people into your religion by offering them full immunity from all their crimes? Unbelievable BS all around.
 

Truthful or not..Kudos to the Pope for this..Id prefer anyone over the ''All of you are going to hell cuz you dont believe in my god'' brigade.

Zaid65 said
Why would God send anybody to hell?

If he is going to take the revenge than we have to reevaluate his status as a God.

As Jules Renard aptly put it,"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't."

or if you like your Steaks raw,here is something from Dawkins

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Without the fear of hell and greed of heaven, the business of religion won't be doing too well. THe pope would be out of job.

a gem by B.Russell ,“The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists. That is why they invented Hell. ”
 
^^ Nice but I prefer this one

“Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning...”
― C.S. Lewis
 
^^ Nice but I prefer this one

“Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning...”
― C.S. Lewis
 
Be nice to see the expresion on athiest face when they meet god in heaven. Wonder if could facebook that expresion.
 
religious people are better off..if there is afterlife, they are happy that they were right. if there is none, there is no time to get the surprise.

but atheist people, dont get to know they were right if there is no afterlife, and if there is, they have all the time for regret.
 
Be nice to see the expresion on athiest face when they meet god in heaven. Wonder if could facebook that expresion.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ jews/ buddhists when they meet Allah in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Allah's existence.
 
Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ jews/ buddhists when they meet Allah in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Allah's existence.

Would love to see the face of all muslim/ hindus/ jews/ buddhists when they meet god in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Jesus as son of God existence.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ muslim/ jews/ buddhists when they meet Ram in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Ram existence.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ muslim/ buddhists when they meet god in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Judaisim.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ jews/ muslim when they meet buddha in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful Buddha for committing the heinous crime of denying Buddha existence.

i hope all the respective god does not act like Theater police and would allow to take pic with iHeaven phone.
 
Iam ready to believe in god but i need to meet him to find whether he exist or not.Anyone here got his contact details ?
 
Pope Influenced by Quran


Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
2: 63
 
Not at all, read again.


Yes. The Arabic language does not distinguish greatly in and or. its not that simple. Anyone who does good deeds and does not openly without PROPER knowledge defy existence of God can go to heaven if he she is good. It is up to Allah to decide if the TRUE meaning of God reached this person or was he/she always truely exposed to the weak statements
 
Would love to see the face of all muslim/ hindus/ jews/ buddhists when they meet god in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Jesus as son of God existence.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ muslim/ jews/ buddhists when they meet Ram in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Ram existence.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ muslim/ buddhists when they meet god in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful God for committing the heinous crime of denying Judaisim.

Would love to see the face of all christians/ hindus/ jews/ muslim when they meet buddha in heaven, would love to see the facebook of them burning in hell by the all merciful Buddha for committing the heinous crime of denying Buddha existence.

i hope all the respective god does not act like Theater police and would allow to take pic with iHeaven phone.

Do all religions claim that everyone not believing in their message is going to land up in hell? Also, as far as I know, Bhudhist hell concept is not eternal and also you don't land up there for not believing in Buddhism. You land up there due to your actions.
 
Yes. The Arabic language does not distinguish greatly in and or. its not that simple. Anyone who does good deeds and does not openly without PROPER knowledge defy existence of God can go to heaven if he she is good. It is up to Allah to decide if the TRUE meaning of God reached this person or was he/she always truely exposed to the weak statements

Which rule out atheists.
 
i believe in God, but i am sure that i will go to hell (as in God won't let me anywhere near Him). so my only purpose is to get peace in this life, because i know there wont be any peace in my after life.
 
Which rule out atheists.

Not all as many are exposed to weak arguments and make their own judgements WITHOUT reading the Abrahamic texts and just reading up online other people's views. Islam is a religion of Mercy not merciless. 'There is no compulsion in religion' 2: 56
 
I'm sure the Paradise is large enough for all of us. :angel:
 
Holy Prophet himself said

'A time will come in Hell when not a single man would be left in it. Its doors and windows will rattle to the blowing wind. Kanzul Ummal, p. 270

meaning in the end and cleansing in hell everyone will end up in Heaven
 
@PennOne, No doubt your intentions are good, but it's pretty clear that Islamic texts and scholars don't agree with you.

3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Sahih Muslim ( second most reliable book)6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.
 
Isn't prayers mandatory for all Muslims? Or that rule is specified only in supporting books?


it means religion cannot be enforced by force or rules applied of Islam on people by force, it must be accepted after true knowledge is passed to people.
 
@PennOne, No doubt your intentions are good, but it's pretty clear that Islamic texts and scholars don't agree with you.

3:85
Whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

5:72
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. ... Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Sahih Muslim ( second most reliable book)6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

3:85 talks about people who are still seeking religion. If a person is righteous and is guided truthfully we know if he seeks a religion it will end up being Islam. If a person is not righteous or is influenced by bad influences, he wont, both end up in differnet paths. the not righteous will end up in hell, the influenced one will still have judgement day to see his deeds

5:72, there are many Christians who dont partner Jesus with God. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christadelphians, Unitarians and Christian Scientists.

The Hadith is only a guarantee that a true pious muslim will go to heaven over a Christian but a pious Christian can go to heaven over a corrupt muslim as long as he has not mocked Islam and has not received the true message with an open heart.


You need to remember Quran's very very first words

Surah Fatihah

' In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.'
'All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,'
'The Gracious, the Merciful,'
'Master of the Day of Judgment.'
'Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.'
'Guide us in the right path'
'The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.'



and Apply that to ALL his rules
 
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Do all religions claim that everyone not believing in their message is going to land up in hell? Also, as far as I know, Bhudhist hell concept is not eternal and also you don't land up there for not believing in Buddhism. You land up there due to your actions.

Ok! Now which actions would qaulify to be accepted in hell. Stealing, lieing, murder, litering, back bitting, it is never ending list, so pick one.
 
shivas heaven >>> rest of the heavens..


consistent supply of quality weed, dance parties , snow clad mountains etc etc :asif
 
There is no such place as heaven.

Atheists don't need the promise of reward or punishment to be good.
 
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Pope Influenced by Quran

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
2: 63

Key words there are "Before Prophet Muhammad". All those that believed in God before the arrival of Muhammad will have their reward. After the arrival of Muhammad, the message was was made clear that Islam is the true religion.

Allah Most High tells us in the Qur'an, "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life." (Qur'an 3:85) This is conditioned by His words,"We do not punish until We send a Messenger." (Qur'an 17:15)

As far as Islam is concerned after the arrival of Muhammad - an individual who has been able to hear about/witness the message of Islam and decided to reject it would burn in hell eternally - this is mentioned in the verses of the Quran and Hadith. However, a key point must be made. As individuals, we do not know what exactly "witnessing/hearing about the message" and "rejecting" it entails. Therefore we shouldn't be judging atheists or people of other faith, because we don't know what type of fate they will encounter. We can only speak with regards to the verses and hadith, however we can't make any certainties like the Pope is doing. Rather, we should be concerned more of our own fate instead of worrying about others.
 
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Question is will these popes make it to Heaven?????:))

He seems pretty certain about it since he's making comments towards the fate of "good" atheists. :asif

Why are his comments only directed towards atheists? What about Muslims, Jews, and people of other faiths?
 
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^^ Nice but I prefer this one

“Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning...”
― C.S. Lewis

Old CS wrote some sweet children's books but he didn't half talk a lot of rubbish about philosophy and religion IMO.
 
sounds like a load of balls to me, what constitutes a good atheist? one who lives life to the satisfaction of a christian god, a muslim god, the pastafarian spaghetti monster??

sounds like a lame attempt to try to soften the image of catholocism.
 
Be nice to see the expresion on athiest face when they meet god in heaven. Wonder if could facebook that expresion.

This is the attitude of some religious people I hate. I thought religious was about humility and accepting Islam because of love for God, not to gloat at others? Some people make it, I am the only one right because my religion is right, serves you right for being wrong

Your tone is the gloating tone a kid uses when he says "ha-ha, I was right and you were wrong". Is that what religion stands for? And I can bet you were born into the religion you have now, not converted, so its not even like you made a choice as the ones whom you are targeting did
 
sounds like a load of balls to me, what constitutes a good atheist? one who lives life to the satisfaction of a christian god, a muslim god, the pastafarian spaghetti monster??

sounds like a lame attempt to try to soften the image of catholocism.

I would think one who lives a good moral life, helping fellow human beings, not killing others just because of a difference in beliefs, etc even if he prays to no God

So here is where we are putting morality and good behavior over a need to worship (whilst many believers claim that morals come from religions, you will find that morality is the last thing in their list to go to heaven, the first and foremost is worshiping God required number of times. If you want proof of this, please check the Mother Teresa thread) and say being a good person is more important than praying
 
Lol is the Pope essentially saying the rulings and teachings of his religion do not need to be followed to get into Heaven? What's the point in listening to him then?
 
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