The Somali Community in the UK

[Saj]

I dont want to "tar every Somali living in the UK with ther same brush", but it seems to me that they are really creating some problems for themselves.

I get the impression that they have taken the stance to not really mix with other communities, have resorted to crime to fuel their wealth with a number of Somali gangs around the country in the headlines. Their kids seem to be doing very poorly at school and to me they just seem to be rather arrogant and cocky.

Considering they have come from a war torn country and they are looking to rebuild their lives in the UK, they arent making too many friends in the UK are they?

 

[SameerM]

I think SOME somalis are ... but some that i have seen in the MK area, are very pious and friendly.

I cant talk for all Somali's... but i assume they will be same as us Pakistanis when we FIRST came to UK..
- Some took the easy route ie crime n drugs etc.
- some took the hard route and studied or worked hard.

 

[Wazeeri]

i assume they will be same as us Pakistanis when we FIRST came to UK..
- Some took the easy route ie crime n drugs etc.
- some took the hard route and studied or worked hard.

Very few took the latter route.

 

[world_peace]

same issue has been hot topics in australia, bot not with samalis but with sudanese.

 

[SameerM]

wazeeri - but eventually even druglord/criminal parents want their kids to be educated!

but thats how it works.. eg. the Polish..have taken over most of the slum areas BUT are doing the most labour work ie building etc etc.

Polish smaller communities, even have about 8-10 people sharing ONE house.. a bit like the asian invasion of the uk in the 60's-70's

But then theres some polish who gone into dealing etc.. dodgy cars..

its that same thing just a new community that has to deal with it.

 

[in_cutter]

...most of them are running dodgy internet cafes

 

[TAK]

it's nonsense to suggest that when pakistanis first came to this country

some took the easy route ie crime n drugs

and

some took the hard route and studied or worked hard

when pakistanis first came to this country only a negligible minority took the easy route you refer to, the overwhelming majority worked very hard, often in the unskilled manual jobs the white working classes didn't want to to do!

it is the sons and grandsons of those good people who have taken the easy route

 

[Wazeeri]

My objection was mainly on the studying part of the argument.
We are the least educated community in the UK.

 

[world_peace]

My objection was mainly on the studying part of the argument.
We are the least educated community in the UK.

i find that really hard to believe. how could this be possible? i would expect pakistani's to be in the top 10 educated community in the UK (with the amount of pakistanis in the uk). im just comparing the fact that the Pakistani community in australia is no where near the least educated community.

 

[Wazeeri]

i find that really hard to believe. how could this be possible? i would expect pakistani's to be in the top 10 educated community in the UK (with the amount of pakistanis in the uk). im just comparing the fact that the Pakistani community in australia is no where near the least educated community.

The Pakistani community in the UK is the only pakistani community in the world which features in the bottom of the tables. Pakistani and Bangladeshi boys get the worst grades in GCSE's and they have the worst conversion rate into A'levels.

They also have the least number of post-secondary school qualifications.

 

[Daoud]

i find that really hard to believe. how could this be possible? i would expect pakistani's to be in the top 10 educated community in the UK (with the amount of pakistanis in the uk). im just comparing the fact that the Pakistani community in australia is no where near the least educated community.

You shouldnt compare the state of Pakistanis here with the state of Pakistanis in the UK. They're a significantly worse version of the Lebanese here. The stereotypical youths from both sides are just as bad. Sure you get a large number of well educated and legitimately well off people but the community is pretty big so that is to be expected.

 

[Toony™®]

Wazeeri most pakistanis in the uk are uneduated from the start. It will take time. Maybe even third generation. Although, if you break down the pakistani demographic- it is easy to point out where the problem lies and where effort needs to be focussed. Around 3/4 of the community are from mirpur/kashmir.

Although, i would like to know what the latest figures are compared with 5,10,15 years ago.

 

[Wazeeri]

Toony

Majority Pakistanis are now born in UK. The stats are from when I was at Uni so about 2/3 years ago.

 

[Raz]

I personally know a Somali brother and he is one of the nicest people one could ever hope to meet. He works as security guard at night at my halls of residence and also studies part time.

 

[dblock]

Toony

Majority Pakistanis are now born in UK. The stats are from when I was at Uni so about 2/3 years ago.

But if all the generation around them worked in labour jobs, taxis, restaurants, etc their own family are unaware of how to maximize the education experience it kind of makes sense why the figure is so low.

Currently things are improving but the lack of guidance at a younger age, coupled with living in poorer communities with poorer schools means it's going to be tough.

Social mobility isn't as easy as it was 20 years ago.

 

[Saj]

I personally know a Somali brother and he is one of the nicest people one could ever hope to meet. He works as security guard at night at my halls of residence and also studies part time.

Raz, there are bound to be some good amongst them, its just that the vast majority I have come across are arrogant and have no grattitude for the fact that they have escaped a war torn country.

Too many of them walk around in gangs thinking they are some sort of gangsters acting like hoodlums.

Have a read of this :-

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...fton-park-somali-murder-case-100252-20616135/

 

[Wazeeri]

But if all the generation around them worked in labour jobs, taxis, restaurants, etc their own family are unaware of how to maximize the education experience it kind of makes sense why the figure is so low.

Currently things are improving but the lack of guidance at a younger age, coupled with living in poorer communities with poorer schools means it's going to be tough.

Social mobility isn't as easy as it was 20 years ago.

I'm not saying there isn't an excuse. I just don't think the Pakistani population in the UK can be broken down into people who sell drugs and people who study.

 

[zaminabs]

1 in every 3 Muslims has no qualifications in the UK..

Source:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=963

 

[hussain_0216]

I quite like the somali's they are pious and are a new community froma war torn nation..


Quick question to anyone who knows, when these statistics are compiled about the levels of education amongst muslims in the UK etc

who are they counting....

What I mean to say is that are they countil ALL muslims, which would include all south asian immigrants (e.g Pak, India, Bangla) all middle eastern immigrants, or afghans, or somali's, sudanese, iraq's, kosovans, bosnians, turks, algerians, etc etc

These are all muslims, and many of them have arrived VERY recently in large numbers, if you look at some of the young guys from Afghanistan or Iraq they are hardly going to come to the Uk or Europe and walk straight into a university, MOST have to think about making enough money to survive....

With this very diverse muslim coimmunity arent the figures for muslims distorted as they count anyone in the Uk who calls themselves a muslim and that is a very diverse group of people..... many of whom wont be able to get a degree or go to university until they make firmer roots.

Back in the 1960's very few numbers of any immigrant communities went to university

 

[dblock]

I quite like the somali's they are pious and are a new community froma war torn nation..


Quick question to anyone who knows, when these statistics are compiled about the levels of education amongst muslims in the UK etc

who are they counting....

What I mean to say is that are they countil ALL muslims, which would include all south asian immigrants (e.g Pak, India, Bangla) all middle eastern immigrants, or afghans, or somali's, sudanese, iraq's, kosovans, bosnians, turks, algerians, etc etc

These are all muslims, and many of them have arrived VERY recently in large numbers, if you look at some of the young guys from Afghanistan or Iraq they are hardly going to come to the Uk or Europe and walk straight into a university, MOST have to think about making enough money to survive....

With this very diverse muslim coimmunity arent the figures for muslims distorted as they count anyone in the Uk who calls themselves a muslim and that is a very diverse group of people..... many of whom wont be able to get a degree or go to university until they make firmer roots.

Back in the 1960's very few numbers of any immigrant communities went to university

Sources: Qualifications: Annual Population Survey, January 2004 to December 2004, Office for National Statistics
Schools: Annual Schools Census, January 2004, Department for Education and Skills
Number of children: Census, April 2001, Office for National Statistics

I think 90% of the muslim population they cover would be from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh given the statistics range from 2001 to 2004.

hussain - in the 1960's only 5% of the student population went to university, so it wasn't only immigrants who couldn't go.

A side point about education for muslims - how often do you see Pakistani or Bangladeshi families take their little children to month long trips back home right in the middle of the school year (as it's normally cheaper) only recent clamp down on this has seen a reduction.

 

[TAK]

Back in the 1960's very few numbers of any immigrant communities went to university

do you think perhaps that could be because the immigrants had not been here that long and many of their children were either too young or had not even been born in the 60's?

 

[TAK]

who are they counting....

a complete shot in the dark here hussain, do you think they could be counting all those that tick muslim on the census as muslims?

 

[TAK]

I dont want to "tar every Somali living in the UK with ther same brush", but it seems to me that they are really creating some problems for themselves.

I get the impression that they have taken the stance to not really mix with other communities, have resorted to crime to fuel their wealth with a number of Somali gangs around the country in the headlines. Their kids seem to be doing very poorly at school and to me they just seem to be rather arrogant and cocky.

Considering they have come from a war torn country and they are looking to rebuild their lives in the UK, they arent making too many friends in the UK are they?

I dont want to "tar every pakistani living in the UK with ther same brush", but it seems to me that they are really creating some problems for themselves.

I get the impression that they have taken the stance to not really mix with other communities, have resorted to crime to fuel their wealth with a number of pakistani gangs around the country in the headlines. Their kids seem to be doing very poorly at school and to me they just seem to be rather arrogant and cocky.

Considering they have come from a poor country and they are looking to rebuild their lives in the UK, they arent making too many friends in the UK are they ?

 

[hussain_0216]

a complete shot in the dark here hussain, do you think they could be counting all those that tick muslim on the census as muslims?

do you think perhaps that could be because the immigrants had not been here that long and many of their children were either too young or had not even been born in the 60's?

Exactly that's what I am saying, if they count EVERYBODY who is muslim and many of those muslims like Kosovans or Iraqi's or Afghans or somalians came to the UK recently, wont be able to go to uni or get a degree as a result it is slightly disproportional to kind of gather statistic's on the WHOAL MUSLIM COMMUNITY when this community is very diverse and different
__________________

 

[the_game]

The strange thing is that their condition seems to be the same here in Toronto, even though I'm sure there aren't as many of them here as in the UK.

 

[jiripoca]

My objection was mainly on the studying part of the argument.
We are the least educated community in the UK.

I thought Afro-carribeans were the worst performers at school. In fact I know they are.

 

[dblock]

I thought Afro-carribeans were the worst performers at school. In fact I know they are.

its

Afro-carribeans
bangladeshis
pakistanis

in that order of worst performing.

 

[Isolation]

i know a few somalis and they seem like nice people to be honest, have a good sense of humour, they only thing i can think is that a lot of them act as though they are afro- caribean coz they are black anyway, u see the ones who think they puff daddy types, u get apnay like that but these guys take it to the extreme i'm talkin cane-row hairstyles and blown up fuji and donnay track suits

 

[Wazeeri]

I thought Afro-carribeans were the worst performers at school. In fact I know they are.

It has improved somewhat since I last checked but still nothing to be proud of at the moment.

 

[MIG]

I think our resident Somali cricket fan, Elan, may have something to say about this !

 

[Nakhuda]

Black people in general seem to be involved in crime more then any other group.Don't have the stats in front of me but they are featured too often in programmes like "Crimewatch".

 

[Ghoshtbuster]

Black people in general seem to be involved in crime more then any other group.Don't have the stats in front of me but they are featured too often in programmes like "Crimewatch".

)
so if somebody said, "pakistains are terroists, because i see them on the news alot", you would agree with them?

 

[Nakhuda]

)
so if somebody said, "pakistains are terroists, because i see them on the news alot", you would agree with them?

But we don't see Pakistanis in the news a lot or in programmes like "Crimewatch".People generally do associate black's with all sort's of crime.Some days back i was reading an article that claimed how 80% of Scottish people are suspicious of black people.

 

[Ghoshtbuster]

But we don't see Pakistanis in the news a lot or in programmes like "Crimewatch".People generally do associate black's with all sort's of crime.Some days back i was reading an article that claimed how 80% of Scottish people are suspicious of black people.

i beg to differ.

and the second part is simply not true.

 

[Nakhuda]

Feel free to disagree.What second part are you on about and do you live in Scotland??

 

[TAK]

But we don't see Pakistanis in the news a lot or in programmes like "Crimewatch".

yesterday i read a piece in my local newspaper about armley prison in leeds

at the present time it's holding 1200 inmates, have a guess how many of those are pakistanis?

 

[Nakhuda]

yesterday i read a piece in my local newspaper about armley prison in leeds

at the present time it's holding 1200 inmates, have a guess how many of those are pakistanis?

None!!!.Maybe its a personal thing but black people give me the creeps especially the one's who consider themselves as rappers speakin' Jamaican or African slang.No wonder they often get stopped by the police!!

 

[TAK]

200, and it probably is a personal thing as it bears little relation to reality

 

[Nakhuda]

200, and it probably is a personal thing as it bears little relation to reality

If you were to ask fifty people if or not they relate black people to crime then a high percentage would agree with me.The fact that they often get stopped by the police suggests exactly this however unfair it maybe.

 

[Saj]

200, and it probably is a personal thing as it bears little relation to reality

That is a frightening stat TAK. Basically 1/6th of the prisoners in there are Pakistani.

I have a friend who works as a teacher. He's currently working with 10 and 11 year olds - he says that the most difficult pupils to deal with are the Somalis. They seem to have this attitude where they are basically reiterating to the teacher that "you cant touch me", "we know the laws" etc etc.

The other day he was handing fruit out to the kids and this group of Somali kids started throwing the fruit at each other - this from a group of kids who could have been starving if they were still in Somalia.

 

[dblock]

Saj - let me guess it's entirely the male population that act this way, same for Pakistanis and Bengalis.

This is where it differs I think for black/white ghetto teenagers - there is a significant number black/white female gangs about. For the upper group though it's nearly entirely a male problem.

 

[TAK]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-Muslim-prisoners39-ham-sandwich.3872099.jp


apologies, it's not 200 pakistanis but 200 muslims!! but either way it's a shocking 1 in 6, and you can bet yer bottom dollar that most of those 200 are pakistanis

 

[Saj]

Saj - let me guess it's entirely the male population that act this way, same for Pakistanis and Bengalis.

This is where it differs I think for black/white ghetto teenagers - there is a significant number black/white female gangs about. For the upper group though it's nearly entirely a male problem.

Yes dblock, its the lads in the class that are the very disobedient ones. Answering back, attitude, no interest in studies and filthy language too.

You would have thought that these are the type of folk who would want to put their troubles behind them and build a sold future for themselves and their families. Instead all they are adding to life in the UK is crime.

 

[Joseph K.]

I work with quite a few Somalis and we have good laugh together. They have this enormous ability to take jokes and laugh with you, absolutely wonderful. I have countless jokes, such as 'bring on the civil war', 'GIVE ME MY RIGHTS (but don't mention my duties)' 'Tribunal, here I come' or walking around as if carrying a rocket-launcher on your shoulder, or:

Q: When Americans bombed Somalia for 6 hours , nobody died, Why?
A: They were all on 'meal break'.

We have good laugh. Some of them are very educated but they laugh at the fact that they all study Pharmacy! They ALL want to open a PCO. They tell me this is the way things were back home as well. If one started a business the whole tribe would want to do the same business in the same area! They like to hang around together in largish groups but they are furiously fussy about their rights. Managers are scared of them as many bosses have come to sorry end because they messed it up with some Somali who was missing from his point of duty or not pulling his weight. The Somali would go straight to the highest authority possible by-passing all channels and demand that his case be given priority. When they talk in their language, and they are quite loud, you can easily identify words like 'tribunal', 'appeal', 'council' and 'DSS'. Still on the whole a good laugh and I would rather work with some friendly Somali with sense of humor than some grumpy old Englishman.

As far as Pakistanis are concerned, I read somewhere that our kids recently passed the black kids as the fastest growing ethnic group of young offenders in UK. So much for the future!

 

[Saj]

Somalis ?

Am I right in thinking that around the UK etc Somalis are becoming increasingly unpopular due to their lack of effort to integrate into society, their reliance on benefits and there general lack of contribution to society as a whole?

 

[Nostalgic]

Interestingly enough, they've settled in huge numbers in Siberia-on-the-Mississippi aka Minnesota.

Here their reputation is mixed: I see a lot of them working at the Walmart or driving cabs, which may not be prestigious but does indicate a modicum of effort on their part to work. But on the other hand they are also predominant in the handful of really run-down areas of Minneapolis-St. Paul, and blamed for not integrating and living off welfare. They've also attracted attention in the past for some of them going off to fight in Somalia.

 

[RickyG]

They're not very popular in Canada either. Especially in Ottawa, where they are turning neighbourhoods into ghettos. Also a big presence in jails in the capital as well. Not a big fan personally.

 

[irfan]

Am I right in thinking that around the UK etc Somalis are becoming increasingly unpopular due to their lack of effort to integrate into society, their reliance on benefits and there general lack of contribution to society as a whole?

how do they differ from Pakistanis in that respect?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

That's quite a generalisation [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION]. Likw any community they will have their good and bad.

Here's an interesting article in the Economist (published in April 2013) which touches upon this subject.

The road is long
Somalis fare much worse than other immigrants; what holds them back?
BARBER shops are excellent places for gossip. Hassan Ali’s place in Kentish Town is no different. The north Londoner arrived in Britain from Somalia with dreams of becoming a mechanic. But he was good at cutting hair: you do whatever work you can, he says. Most Somalis—Britain’s largest refugee population—do not work. They are among the poorest, worst-educated and least-employed in Britain. In a country where other refugees have flourished, why do Somalis do so badly?

The first Somalis to arrive in Britain, over a century ago, were economic migrants. Merchant seamen settled in cities with docks: Cardiff, Liverpool and London. As civil war ravaged Somalia in the 1990s, refugees flocked to Britain. In 1999, the high-water mark, 7,495 Somalis arrived (11% of the refugees that arrived in Britain that year). Since then, the influx has slowed (see first chart); it still leaves a large community. The 2011 census identified 101,370 people in England and Wales who were born in Somalia.

Poverty is their first problem. Over 80% of Somali-speaking pupils qualify for free school meals. In Waltham Forest, a borough in east London, home to nearly 4,000 Somalis, 73% live in households on benefits. More than 50% of British Somalis rent from local councils, the highest proportion of any foreign-born population. In nearby Tower Hamlets 2010 data showed that Somalis were twice as likely as white Britons to be behind with the rent. The cost of their economic marginalisation hurts them, and is a toll on the public sector, too.

Education looks an unlikely escape route. Overcrowded houses mean children have nowhere to do their homework. In 2010-11 around 33% of Somali children got five good GCSEs, the exams taken at 16, compared with 59% of Bangladeshi pupils and 78% of Nigerian ones. Parents unable to speak English struggle. They see their children move up a year at school and assume they are doing well (in Somalia poor performers are held back). Their offspring, roped in as translators, are in no hurry to disabuse them.

This helps to explain the pitiful employment rates among Britain’s Somalis (see second chart). Just one in ten is in full-time work. Many Somali households are headed by women who came to Britain without their husbands. Fitting work around child care is a struggle. Without work, Somali men while away their days chewing khat, a mild stimulative leaf. Awale Olad, a Somali councillor in London, supports the government’s recent decision to ban the drug. But others fear it will needlessly criminalise a generation of men.

Religion, however, is an overstated problem. It is true that, like their Bangladeshi and Pakistani counterparts, some young Somalis are embracing stricter forms of Islam. Amina Ali, who hopes to stand as an MP at the next election, worries when she sees girls of three wearing headscarves. People can respect Islam without being so conservative, she says. But religion unites young Somalis with other young Muslims, says Ismail Einashe, a journalist. A few are radicalised, but most are not.

This cocktail of poverty and unemployment dogs Somalis elsewhere too. In 2009 they were the least-employed group in Denmark. The Norwegian government is so worried about its Somali community it wants research done on their plight. Even discounting such factors as religion, age and experience, compared with other black Africans in Britain, Somalis face an “ethnic penalty” when job-hunting. Their disadvantages are clear. But Britain is rightly perceived as a country in which it is relatively easy to set up businesses; it also offers the hope of a warm welcome with its large Somali and Muslim population. This should bode well for Somalis.

Many are hopeful. Somalis want their children to succeed, so growing numbers are hiring private tutors (see article). In 2000 just one Somali teenager in the London borough of Camden passed five GCSEs with good grades. To improve matters, the council and others set up the Somali Youth Development Resource Centre, which mentors students and lends them books. Last year the figure rose to 59%.

Abdikadir Ahmed, who works there, says his organisation encourages people to put the entrepreneurial skills they learn in gangs to better use. He works with Somalis locked up in Feltham prison, a young-offenders jail. Their numbers are dropping, he reckons. Somalis played little part in the summer riots of 2011.

This investment reflects a deeper change. For years many Somalis kept their suitcases packed, ready to return to Africa for good, says Mr Olad. Firm in the belief that they would soon be on the move, there was little point in putting down deep roots, or encouraging their children to do so. But the current generation of Somalis grew up in Britain. For them a permanent return to Somalia holds less appeal. Young British Somalis still embrace their nomadic heritage. But now they seek a dual identity, able to flit between two homelands and, they hope, to make the best of both.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...her-immigrants-what-holds-them-back-road-long

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

I am from West London, and they are not liked at all. Under Labour they tried to cheat the system and have as amany kids as they could to claim benefits and then were driving around in flashy cars even though 10 of them lived in a 2 bedroom house.

I went to three different schools and attend a top 5 world university, but of the three secondary schools I noticed there were quite a lot of Somalians yet not a single one achived respectable GCSE/A-level grades (grade C or above).

Pakistanis and Indians have contributed more than anyone, so many are doctors, financiers, engineers, dentists and they open meaningful stores and restaurants (unlike the unnecessary number of Polski Skelps).

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

My old secondary school used to be one of the best in West London and my head teacher tried his best to bring the reputation back up because results ultimately dictate a school's performance and reputation. There were 3 council estates near my old school and all 3 had many Somalians who lived in the catchment area; they really ruined everyone's education. The attempt of my head teacher to stop accepting them was found out and he was taken the court but fortunately he won:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-court-victory-right-control-admissions.html

It was a good decision because a lot of the people in my old school were either posh/wealthy British white or Asian, Somalians really disrupted everyone's education.

I am happy that the benefits cap has come in, where some 10+ kid families were raking in upwards of 100K but now can only rake in 27K or something, which isn't enough to live in London with 10 kids which has resulted in many being evicted and sent to places like Birmingham, Luton and Manchester.

On some occasions they really made my blood boil, one Somalian asylum seeker was unemployed and had a 5 bedroom house in London but still complained and was given a house just off Notting Hill Station (see link below - a 10M+ house today). Complaining about having a free 5 bed house in London, I'm sorry if you don't like it then go back to Somalia and see if your government will give you anything:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html

Many played the game and were renting private housing through the council, but with the benefits cap they've been evicted and can't be housed in London. I don't know why so many of them are adamant in living in London when they don't even use the opportunity or do anything for that matter

 

[Saeed]

I am sure British are not huge fans of Pakistanis either.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

I am sure British are not huge fans of Pakistanis either.

You can say that, but in London that is far from true.

I've worked in several large establishments, interned at investment banks and know the network, not a single Somalian represented but many Pakistanis are. HR and the hiring managers surely like them enough.

The professors and administrators at top tier universities also must like them if they're accepting them.

 

[ahmedzee]

They are in great numbers in Canada and I see most of them living off welfare. Not a contributing community. Even in masjid they are a nuisance, specially during Iftar time, pushing people around to get their food.
Though some still do contribute to societies. Never seen any in top positions, and I have hardly seen one in universities, atleast at u of t.

 

[Major]

yeh, i wonder what others think about Pakistans living in their country.

 

[speed]

There's not too many of them, but they are easily recognizable, it was quite funny seeing them read EID prayer in the park and then it suddenly started raining, all of them got soaked unfortunately.

 

[ehjaz]

I am sure British are not huge fans of Pakistanis either.

Educated Pakistanis integrate well especially in North America....

 

[Saeed]

Educated Pakistanis integrate well especially in North America....

Of course they do but that is not the point. If one community is doing better than the other one then that doesn't mean we have to spit on the lower community. I don't really like this attitude that "all they do is claim benefits, commit crimes and I don't like them" because its hardly going to achieve anything and most probably will make that community, more hostile towards other.321`w

 

[irfan]

My old secondary school used to be one of the best in West London and my head teacher tried his best to bring the reputation back up because results ultimately dictate a school's performance and reputation. There were 3 council estates near my old school and all 3 had many Somalians who lived in the catchment area; they really ruined everyone's education. The attempt of my head teacher to stop accepting them was found out and he was taken the court but fortunately he won:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-court-victory-right-control-admissions.html

It was a good decision because a lot of the people in my old school were either posh/wealthy British white or Asian, Somalians really disrupted everyone's education.

I am happy that the benefits cap has come in, where some 10+ kid families were raking in upwards of 100K but now can only rake in 27K or something, which isn't enough to live in London with 10 kids which has resulted in many being evicted and sent to places like Birmingham, Luton and Manchester.

On some occasions they really made my blood boil, one Somalian asylum seeker was unemployed and had a 5 bedroom house in London but still complained and was given a house just off Notting Hill Station (see link below - a 10M+ house today). Complaining about having a free 5 bed house in London, I'm sorry if you don't like it then go back to Somalia and see if your government will give you anything:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html

Many played the game and were renting private housing through the council, but with the benefits cap they've been evicted and can't be housed in London. I don't know why so many of them are adamant in living in London when they don't even use the opportunity or do anything for that matter

Is that the case? I am from Manchester but don't live there anymore but whenever I have visited recently I've noticed that there are more Somalis. As you perceive a whole group of people to be such a problem all you've done is to make it someone elses problem, typical nimbyism. Everything you've accused Somalis are the same things that used to be said about Pakistanis 20-30 years ago.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Is that the case? I am from Manchester but don't live there anymore but whenever I have visited recently I've noticed that there are more Somalis. As you perceive a whole group of people to be such a problem all you've done is to make it someone elses problem, typical nimbyism. Everything you've accused Somalis are the same things that used to be said about Pakistanis 20-30 years ago.

Not really, my grandfather (and all other Pakistanis that I know of) came to this country and worked extremely hard for a better future. It is no surprise that everyone in England knows that importance of education has been ingrained in desi culture, whether it be 1st or 3rd generation, hard-work is always there.

In West London there is A LOT of Somalians and I can say without prejudice that not a single one I know of has worked hard. Polish have come here and earn an honest living through all means, whether that be minicab or Polski Skelps or building (some of them are bloody good at it and we have hired them)... but other than opening internet cafes that serve no purpose, what have Somalians done? never heard of a wealthy Somalian or even middle-class family.

 

[Bewal Express]

Having destroyed Somalia, they will bring their great work ethic to the UK. In 20 years time they will also claim that they are victims of racism and it's all a conspiracy to suppress them.

 

[B@$!T]

same situation here in Finland, they put no effort into integrating but expect the surrounding to change.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Same could be the same for the muhajirs and the punjabis in Pakistan, they've done next to nothing for Pakistan apart from looting it since moving from India

 

[just saying]

Same could be the same for the muhajirs and the punjabis in Pakistan, they've done next to nothing for Pakistan apart from looting it since moving from India

Unlike the Somalis, they had the right to move to Pakistan and join in on the party.

 

[Thivagar]

I live in Toronto, we got many of them. Some of the area is the mini Mogadishu of Somalians. They are not really liked here either. Same goes for Indian Punjabis, some Pakistanis, some Sri Lankans and lately the Afghanis . I don't understand the hate for Somalians. They are people to. They are no different from others. Somalians have came from a war torn country, they are most likely to be hang out in close knit of groups, enclosed. Sure some of em acts like gangsters but they are not scary as Jamaicans/West Indians. OP's neighbour is a Somalian and he has beef, just admit it Saj .

 

[Eagle_Eye]

My old secondary school used to be one of the best in West London and my head teacher tried his best to bring the reputation back up because results ultimately dictate a school's performance and reputation. There were 3 council estates near my old school and all 3 had many Somalians who lived in the catchment area; they really ruined everyone's education. The attempt of my head teacher to stop accepting them was found out and he was taken the court but fortunately he won:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-court-victory-right-control-admissions.html

It was a good decision because a lot of the people in my old school were either posh/wealthy British white or Asian, Somalians really disrupted everyone's education.

I am happy that the benefits cap has come in, where some 10+ kid families were raking in upwards of 100K but now can only rake in 27K or something, which isn't enough to live in London with 10 kids which has resulted in many being evicted and sent to places like Birmingham, Luton and Manchester.

On some occasions they really made my blood boil, one Somalian asylum seeker was unemployed and had a 5 bedroom house in London but still complained and was given a house just off Notting Hill Station (see link below - a 10M+ house today). Complaining about having a free 5 bed house in London, I'm sorry if you don't like it then go back to Somalia and see if your government will give you anything:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-complaining-5-bed-London-home-poor-area.html

Many played the game and were renting private housing through the council, but with the benefits cap they've been evicted and can't be housed in London. I don't know why so many of them are adamant in living in London when they don't even use the opportunity or do anything for that matter

Its still one of the best non grammer state schools, Perhaps the only state school in the area that plays and has good rugby and especially cricket facilities. Back in the day it was a grammer school and by the 90s standards had fallen considerably, Sir Pritpal came along and transformed the school. So you are lucky that the state school you went to is a very good one.

You asked for a well off somali - mo farrah and guess what he is from west london too. They maybe an introverted community, it does not give you the right to make gross generalisations. How many somalis you know very closely? 0, 1, 2 ....... 100 ? Is that enough to draw conclusions about tens of thousands?

Turn the clock back to 70s and 80s and you will find similar sentiments about your own community. The very area that you live in or went to school was a hotbed for such things.

 

[saadibaba]

Same could be the same for the muhajirs and the punjabis in Pakistan, they've done next to nothing for Pakistan apart from looting it since moving from India

Such an ignorant statement to make. I hope you were just trolling and not being serious otherwise it can be safely assumed that you know next to nothing about Pakistan let alone the Mohajir and Punjabi community.

 

[90MPH]

I think they are ok people. However it's true a lot of people do say negative stuff about them (I know them fairly well as I work around the Southall area) which is obviously not nice to hear. Maybe they need to integrate better and focus more on education and business to shake off the image that a lot of people perceive about them.

I know other communities have massive Problems as well, maybe more so but I think people should just stick to the topic regarding this particular race.

 

[saadibaba]

Horrible generalization, since I have been on this forum there has been nothing but racism from a lot of posters. Is this the norm on here?

If you have a problem with a post than present your counter arguments and challenge that point of view otherwise you should find another forum where your self righteous sensibilities don't get threatened.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Its still one of the best non grammer state schools, Perhaps the only state school in the area that plays and has good rugby and especially cricket facilities. Back in the day it was a grammer school and by the 90s standards had fallen considerably, Sir Pritpal came along and transformed the school. So you are lucky that the state school you went to is a very good one.

You asked for a well off somali - mo farrah and guess what he is from west london too. They maybe an introverted community, it does not give you the right to make gross generalisations. How many somalis you know very closely? 0, 1, 2 ....... 100 ? Is that enough to draw conclusions about tens of thousands?

Turn the clock back to 70s and 80s and you will find similar sentiments about your own community. The very area that you live in or went to school was a hotbed for such things.

Unless you been there it was far from good, I went to Brentside and Greenford as well and let me tell you, I wasn't used to going to an Asian school after but they were a lot more competitive than Drayton which was full of Somalians. I credit Greenford for my success.

And Mo Farrah is a ridiculous example, I know 100s of Somalians and so does 90mph if he works in Southall (particularly Old Southall), you will not find a hard-working or intelligent one. Using a celebrity who gained fame/wealth through genetics (physical ability) doesn't mean anything lol... I forgot the statistic but around 80-90% of Somalians claim benefits. I know many Pakistanis also claim benefits but let's be honest, it is fraudulent but they do at least work whilst claiming it rather than laying around expecting the world to give them everything.

You say turn the clock back to 70s and 80s, I would love to because it is the very reason Asians are so respected and why 'Khan' is the most common name for doctors. Despite the hardship and racism Asians were confronted with (and it was a lot worse back then), they still worked hard and didn't play the victim mentality card and surpassed the racist bigots.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Man PP is full of people that like to generalize.

If you meet a Somalian that is on some sort of government aid/welfare even though he is capable of working then yes you have the right to dislike that particular person.

But to say Somalians as an ethnicity are lazy is wrong. Its not just about being politically correct. The statement itself is just incorrect. I am sure there are many Somalians that are very hard working, just because you/I have not personally met them doesnt mean they dont exist.

From my personal experience, I have met a few Somalians that are on government welfare when it looks like that they are fully able to work. So I do hold a prejudice against those particular people. Not the whole ethnicity though.

Being a victim of generalizations is never fun. Think about all the times you have been discriminated against or judged just because you are Pakistani or Muslim. Did you like the way it made you feel even though you knew in your heart that those judgements did not represent you personally? Maybe it represents other people but not you. I

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Unless you been there it was far from good, I went to Brentside and Greenford as well and let me tell you, I wasn't used to going to an Asian school after but they were a lot more competitive than Drayton which was full of Somalians. I credit Greenford for my success.

And Mo Farrah is a ridiculous example, I know 100s of Somalians and so does 90mph if he works in Southall (particularly Old Southall), you will not find a hard-working or intelligent one. Using a celebrity who gained fame/wealth through genetics (physical ability) doesn't mean anything lol... I forgot the statistic but around 80-90% of Somalians claim benefits. I know many Pakistanis also claim benefits but let's be honest, it is fraudulent but they do at least work whilst claiming it rather than laying around expecting the world to give them everything.

You say turn the clock back to 70s and 80s, I would love to because it is the very reason Asians are so respected and why 'Khan' is the most common name for doctors. Despite the hardship and racism Asians were confronted with (and it was a lot worse back then), they still worked hard and didn't play the victim mentality card and surpassed the racist bigots.

Your quote was :

what have Somalians done? never heard of a wealthy Somalian or even middle-class family.

I gave you Mo, because its someone both of us can recongise. Another is Rageh Omar. To suggesg that he used genetics to gain fame wealth suggests lack of understanding. He got famous because of talent and sheer hard work!! What about rageh omar, did he also possess freakish genetics?

The fact that i can see a convicted cheat in you avataar, i too can make sweeping generalisations about people like you..... But that would be wrong too.

 

[sh47]

I went to a poor inner city area school which was very diverse, full of south asians, west indians and somalians. The issues somalians face in each distinct community is no different to Brit Pakistanis/Asias or west indians. When our parents had to settle in inner city areas when they moved to the UK they exposed their children to an environment which was struggling to make ends meet and this is where the trouble arises from, at times family issues/lack of support and turbulent upbringing also contribute to the people their children would become one day and quiet often from a young age these young folk are made to believe that they will never make it in life and the government only does the absolute minimum to support these kids there is little encouragement when it comes to having an ambition and aiming high is concerned.

HOWEVER, despite these issues at the heart and soul of these communities there is so much positivity and talent which is not being utilized. Also i know of many successful Somalians who grew up with me and overcame various obstacles to achieve their goals some of whom had to escape the horrors back in the their homeland.

It's easy for certain folk to judge and make certain generalizations when they had the luxury of not being exposed to turmoil on a physical and psychological level from all quarters. If we see adversity it's easy to criticize, complain and moan about it, i suggest we try and help our local communities in doing our bit to improve British Society.

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

I gave you Mo, because its someone both of us can recongise. Another is Rageh Omar. To suggesg that he used genetics to gain fame wealth suggests lack of understanding. He got famous because of talent and sheer hard work!! What about rageh omar, did he also possess freakish genetics?

The fact that i can see a convicted cheat in you avataar, i too can make sweeping generalisations about people like you..... But that would be wrong too.

There is no lack of understanding I can ensure you of that, if Mo Farah has inspired every Somalian kid growing up to be a marathon runner then that probably is a reason they don't want to focus in school.

And how did I know you was going to use Rageh Omar as an example! I never heard of him until I saw some Somalians use him as well. If you use your common sense, a correspondent was required for warzones that included Somalia, so it was more of a case that they needed a Somalian. This and coupled with the fact his family are wealthy and involved in politics in Somalia, so very likely there was corruption involved in propelling him into that position, but I won't speculate.

And you can make your generalisation, but be consistent if you do. You should be irate at broadcasters such as Sky who put Shane Warne on a pedestal, a drug cheat and someone that was heavily involved in fixing in an era where it was rampant; he was very lucky to get caught for a lesser offence.

 

[Dee1990]

Totally agree with the OP, Most Somalians dont contribute much to the UK at all, all they do is breed like rabbits and claim welfare. Yes there will be some who work, but they are in the minority. There's a somalian family who live two doors away from me and they have 8 children. The parents dont work at all. I live in Greenford (west london), but there is a area in Southall which is totally dominated by Somalians, and they have turned that area into a no go zone especially at night and especially if you are Asian, because there will be gangs of somalians waiting to rob you. There are always fights in southall between asians and somalians and a majority of the time it's the somalians who initiate it. I'm of Indian descent and sometimes I dont understand why Pakistani's get alot of flak in the UK because still atleast they contribute towards the country, Somalians have done nothing.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Two decades ago weren't the same things said about Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants into the UK. Immigrant communities from the 3rd world always take a couple of generations at least to find their feet and integrate into first world societies so I guess its just a matter of time.

 

[the Great Khan]

lol cant believe Saj has started a thread like this. Somalis are a hidden future resource and have the ingredients of a successful community. I have found their kids generally brave, hard working and ambitious more than the Indian Muslims, and Indian hindus as well as the pakistnais in my area. they are up and coming and I would wait until a good generation has been through the school system etc. Dalair qaum is how I see them. I encountered a couple of Somalis at the bus stop and they were talking amongst themselves, both had just finished their A levels and were talking about their future. Articulate, ambitious and ready to take on the future is how I saw this bunch. as opposed to the "Asians" who found it diificult to articulate a simple point without out repeating "yu get me" or "innit" every ten seconds.

every set of immigrants have problems but I find Somalis on the deen, looking to move ahead and brave people.

 

[TSA321]

I am sure British are not huge fans of Pakistanis either.

Well here's what they think of us

 

[Saeed]

Well here's what they think of us

Were these white British randomly selected from all over the England or just London?

 

[Cricket_Engineer]

Well here's what they think of us

Were these white British randomly selected from all over the England or just London?

It looks like someone random made it in excel lol... but I guess it's positive due to the fact they view us as hard-working, entrepreneurial and we don't drain the economy (which is the same as leaning on the state