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There are no Starc, Rabada or Quinton de Kock type players in our domestics, tough times ahead

GLORY OF '92

GLORY OF '92

Test Debutant
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Runs
13,521
I think we are going to struggle in Tests until we find players who can compete with these new dominant players. I really can't see any and we have to admit we have a dearth of talent compared to India, SA and Australia. Dark times ahead sadly.
 
The cupboard is bare, we will be mediocre for the foreseeable future. I have no hope.
 
3-4 series in the UAE and we'll have a few false heroes emerge.

It's a vicious cycle.
 
Exactly we can keep complaining about these bowlers but lets be honest, if there was someone knocking the door down bowling at 150kph Wahab wouldn't be in the team. Same goes for Sohail, if someone could bowl consistent outswingers at 135kph with the new ball, Sohail wouldn't have been picked. The cupboard is indeed bare. The other day I was watching Ghulam Mudassar bowl on Youtube and the way the opening batsmen was playing, it was horrible to watch. He was actually moving leg side of the ball and he was swinging it away from the left hander. The lefty would poke at the ball by moving outside leg and he was an opener in our main first class tournament. Can't go by domestic stats, because were struggling for quality players.
 
Pakistan cricket is finished. There is no hope for the future.
 
Emotional thread. We beat them 2-0 at home. They were not finished. This need for validation away is fine but if comes at expense of belittling what you achieve at home, you are forever set to feel inferior. Australia last 5 straight matches with some of the same players.
 
Pete Rose said:
Emotional thread. We beat them 2-0 at home. They were not finished. This need for validation away is fine but if comes at expense of belittling what you achieve at home, you are forever set to feel inferior. Australia last 5 straight matches with some of the same players.
Click to expand...

Not emotional. Of course we have achieved a lot in the past 6 years.

But looking at the talent pool it is extremely worrying.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
Not emotional. Of course we have achieved a lot in the past 6 years.

But looking at the talent pool it is extremely worrying.
Click to expand...

I think we exaggerate this effect. I don't think anyone would have predicted five years ago that the basket case team we had then could be transformed in to a world number one side. Players always step up. Objectively, despite all our bowling troubles etc on this tour our issue is that we carry two of form batsmen in our middle order. Now imagine the pressures that the other players of this team are feeling: out captain and probably the best batsman pakistan has produced (their view, not mine) are walking wickets
 
Pete Rose said:
You mean like Australia wins at home and loses away?
Click to expand...

In all fairness Australia has never lost to an Asian team at home since God knows when.

South Africa and Australia have similar conditions so they challenge each other better.

If India came to UAE or Pakistan went to India, both would find it tougher to win.

So your argument that Australia loses at home while we draw is objectively false.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
In all fairness Australia has never lost to an Asian team at home since God knows when.

South Africa and Australia have similar conditions so they challenge each other better.

If India came to UAE or Pakistan went to India, both would find it tougher to win.

So your argument that Australia loses at home while we draw is objectively false.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if I understand this point.
 
There were different kinds of threads 2 weeks ago when Pakistan almost chased 490
 
Dr_Bassim said:
In all fairness Australia has never lost to an Asian team at home since God knows when.

South Africa and Australia have similar conditions so they challenge each other better.

If India came to UAE or Pakistan went to India, both would find it tougher to win.

So your argument that Australia loses at home while we draw is objectively false.
Click to expand...

I am not seeing India struggling at UAE

India would have easily run over pakistan in every department with ease....their is day light diff bw both teams
 
The funny thing is some Australian and South African fans say their domestic competitions aren't of the same quality it used to be.

Yet our domestic system is still lightyears behind in terms of quality and competitiveness.

You only have to look at the joke of a QEA Trophy final this year between two of our apparently leading teams. One team limps to 21-6 in the 1st innings, and the other team also gets rolled over on an underprepared surface. Then the same team who were down at 21-6 storm back to declare at 485-1 in their 2nd innings, but their opponents easily bat out 111 overs in the 4th innings to secure the title as the pitch becomes a low bounce phatta and the bowlers can't do a damn thing !

How are you supposed to produce quality players in such conditions ? That QEA Trophy final is a microcosm of many FC matches that play out similarly.
 
ali ray said:
No 9 in tests and no 11 in Odis, this is our real aukat
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Brother you were the one going on saying that Pakistan will win the current series 2-1 after losing first test and now this?

Please have patience with the team and results.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
I think we are going to struggle in Tests until we find players who can compete with these new dominant players. I really can't see any and we have to admit we have a dearth of talent compared to India, SA and Australia. Dark times ahead sadly.
Click to expand...

I watched Quinton De Kock as an Under-19 against Ehsan Adil and Usman Qadir. They were both at least as good as him.

I watched Josh Hazlewood as an Under-19 against Babar Azam. Babar was several years younger, but the better cricketer by far.

The problem is not the lack of talent. It is the failure to groom those players.
 
Junaids said:
I watched Quinton De Kock as an Under-19 against Ehsan Adil and Usman Qadir. They were both at least as good as him.

I watched Josh Hazlewood as an Under-19 against Babar Azam. Babar was several years younger, but the better cricketer by far.

The problem is not the lack of talent. It is the failure to groom those players.
Click to expand...

The system will never get better to groom these players. County cricket hid these deficiencies till the 90s, now 98% of the cricketers Pak domestic produces are just not good enough.
 
And this is new? It has been like this since 2009.

Many ex players have warned us in the past. But yea who cares. In stead of fixing things we keep looking at new kids and expect them to smash bowlers like Starc, Boult etc.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
And this is new? It has been like this since 2009.

Many ex players have warned us in the past. But yea who cares. In stead of fixing things we keep looking at new kids and expect them to smash bowlers like Starc, Boult etc.
Click to expand...

The worst part is that our domestic structure and pitches have only become worse with time. Like I said earlier: many fans do not understand and keep looking at small kids for wonders while people at the top, who have all the power, do not care.
 
Babar Azam, Mohammad Amir, Sami Aslam and a couple of the young spinners I keep hearing about are all very good players under the age of 25.
 
I don't think so. The likes of Starc Rabada and QdK were fast tracked from u19 sides.
"Fast tracking" doesn't necessarily mean putting a young player in the first team.
Protect your asset by giving him a good contract to ease the financial pressure and thus he can concentrate on his cricket. I don't know about the structures of Pakistan cricket, but CSA have the power to demand that a young promising player be given a contract at franchise level and not only that but given regular playing time.
In return they will subsidise the costs.
This was the case with Rabada, AB, Amla, Parnell, QdK etc. even recently with Wiaan Mulder.
These players have had access to world class infrastructure and coaching at a young age with no financial burden.

There's no point in winning an x amount u/19 world cups or be there or thereabout and not try and push a young talent through. The PCB have to make it a point that they choose were it's best for the young player(s) to develop. If that means changing states/provinces and relocating so be it.

Cricket is too popular in Asia to suffer "dearth" in talent. I refuse to believe Pakistan can't unleash a Rabada/Starc/QdK of their own. Talent needs to be managed properly, that's all there is to it.
 
Another question why did the likes of Ajmal even Shar debut so late in their careers?
Did they just turn world class? Or were they ignored/neglected at a young age by the PCB? Could it be that Pakistan first class structures need a restructuring?
These are the questions that need to be answered by the PCB, i.e. how to identify and spot a talent at a young age.


(Yes there was Kaneria, but we're not talking Shane Warne here)
 
With cricket passionate population, I find it hard to believe that Pakistan won't have talented players. It's about tapping players young and then making sure to groom them properly.
 
soso_killer said:
Another question why did the likes of Ajmal even Shar debut so late in their careers?
Did they just turn world class? Or were they ignored/neglected at a young age by the PCB? Could it be that Pakistan first class structures need a restructuring?
These are the questions that need to be answered by the PCB, i.e. how to identify and spot a talent at a young age.


(Yes there was Kaneria, but we're not talking Shane Warne here)
Click to expand...
Talented players being ignored due to nepotism and senior mentality is not new in Pakistan cricket. It's been happening for decades.

Not restructuring, our first class needs a overhaul. It is of a very low standard with the talent pool spread over 16 teams(a year ago it was 22-24). Despite 16 teams, many talented young players can't find a spot because of nepotism so their development is delayed until someone influential notices them and vouches for them. The pitches are lifeless, held together by grass to last 4 days. Ideal for trundlers and plodders to thrive on. The ball is of a very poor quality, swings and seams very easily. All these factors neither encourage genuine fast bowling or develop skill that's required to take wickets on pitches with true bounce. Strokeplay is pretty much impossible because it's very difficult to hit through the line.

You'd think the seaming conditions and the swinging ball would help develop skills to negotiate movement overseas but it doesn't because we lack qualified batting coaches. Previously, our batsmen fine-tuned their techniques in county cricket. Ever since that stopped - around early 2000s - our domestic coaches have been thoroughly exposed.
 
Buffet said:
With cricket passionate population, I find it hard to believe that Pakistan won't have talented players. It's about tapping players young and then making sure to groom them properly.
Click to expand...

There are. The next generation is quite a talented one. Now it's all down to how we groom them.

This is a typical PP thread post a series loss. I doubt OP follows domestic cricket.
 
As several posters have previously mentioned, the problem lies much deeper. It's not just our first class system or cricket board, but the way our national sports are conducted.

The vast size of our country has allowed us to produce players with natural ability. We pick players purely based on their skills that they naturally possessed, for example Amir, Irfan, and Yasir. These players didn't get groomed from a young age, rather, they made it big on their own. For a national sports system to really thrive, a proper system must be established in which players go.

In U.S. for example, there are small leagues in every town where kids as small as three take part in. In other words, parents motivate their kids to take part in sports which contradicts to the mentality of a lot of parents in Pakistan.

As the kids get to high schools, they end up either choosing one sport to concentrate upon the most. Now whatever the sport may be, the players follow through a system in which skilled players are identified. Now they may go on to play in college and play professional football or simply not play anymore. However, skilled players are identified. As a result, players from the whole country have a chance to succeed if the skill is there.

Comparing that to Pakistan, the pool is already condensed as there are a lot of places in the country where there is absolutely no establishment of any system. However, wherever there is some establishment, the system has to reach out to them.

After identifying kids under 20, you have to work on them, groom them. I remember watching a documentary or something along the same lines some time ago. The BCB had sent over around 20 U-19 kids to train in Australia under an Australian coach. Now Bangladesh is reaping rewards for the work they had done. My point is, that players have to hand picked and then groomed in a proper environment.

It only makes sense if Pakistan is mediocre in sports looking at the system we have. We cannot produce players like Starc, Rabada or de Kock because there is no one to develop the skills of the youth in Pakistan.
 
Selector should make sure that whoever they pick should be among the fittest lads in the country, and can field very well.

NO compromises.
 
with their population and cricket as the only sport it's impossible for talent to die down.
 
So instead of pleasing other teams

Go with the players we have... M Asif
 
Both Rabada and QDK need to perform couple years before being hyped..

Starc too but he was the MVP in WC which is petty huge already
 
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