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Three years on from the Champions Trophy...

Abdullah719

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How did it affect the players and the mindset of the Pakistan team?

Some players developed and shone. Well, Babar really.

Others such as Junaid Khan and Hasan Ali have faded away while some such as Fakhar Zaman appear to be struggling. Sarfaraz has been deposed as well.
 
Babar had a pretty poor CT for his standards.

It was really a false-dawn; three new faces that could have led us to a bright future.

Bowling: Hasan Ali
Batting: FZ
Captaincy: Sarfaraz

They all faded away due to letting the fame and high of a tournament win get to their heads and becoming complacent.
 
Too many players faded away after this win, particularly pace-bowlers. Injuries have also hit some of these players hard.

And of course Fakhar Zaman too fell away after his heroics in the final.

I would have wanted Pakistan to build on this win, but the reality is they have not.
 
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The enthusiasm around this win is gone.
 
Too many players faded away after this win, particularly pace-bowlers. Injuries have also hit some of these players hard.

And of course Fakhar Zaman too fell away after his heroics in the final.

I would have wanted Pakistan to build on this win, but the reality is they have not.

The players who should have faded away such as Mohammed Hafeez and Shoaib Malik have not :)
 
The fact that everyone on this forum still talks about it shows the lack of progression since then
 
Everything came crashing down in the 2018 Asia Cup.

Our players and fans’ heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy and the amount of overconfidence and overestimation of our mediocre abilities was staggering.

We actually received an early dose of reality in January 2018 when we were blanked 5-0 in New Zealand, but we comically brushed that aside and blamed it on ‘poor preparation’.

The New Zealand series was followed by relentless minnow-bashing which our fans and players mistook for a genuine upward shift in the outlook of the Pakistan team.

It was said that under the leadership of Sarfraz, Pakistan was finally stepping out of the dark days with Babar leading the way along with PSL superstars like Shadab, Hasan, Fakhar, Faheem etc.

It was said that the Champions Trophy was going to be a ‘Miandad six’ moment, with the momentum tilting towards Pakistan against India, and how this new generation of fearless Pakistani cricketers would not get overwhelmed by the grand occasion of Pakistan vs India.

The shallow arrogance crept into our players as well. Sarfraz claimed that India was afraid of playing Pakistan, and Hasan Ali announced his intentions of taking 10 wickets against India only a few days after embarrassing himself on the border.

Unfortunately or fortunately, all of the delusions and optimism flamed out in September 2018 which proved to be a brutal reality check for the players as well as the fans.

India, without arguably the greatest ODI batsman of all time, thrashed Pakistan twice in the space of one week with no mercy whatsoever.

They pretty much thumped us in both games with only two batsmen, and the gulf in class between the two sides even without Kohli was embarrassingly huge.

The Asia Cup humiliation completely destroyed the confidence of players like Sarfraz, Hasan and Fakhar who never recovered from that reality-check.

It was a proper kick in the gut for not only the players but also the fans because after all the big talk, we once again proved how deeply mediocre we were, and how India was a good three levels above us even without Kohli.

The insult to injury was of course the Bangladesh match. For 3 years, Pakistan brushed aside the whitewash in Bangladesh and called it a one-off.

Our fans argued that Bangladesh would not stand a chance against the amazing leadership of Sarfraz, but all of that talk turned to dust when they defeated us only days after India’s embarrassing double.

In a nutshell, the Champions Trophy euphoria completed died when we were shown our “aukaat” in the Asia Cup.
 
Everything came crashing down in the 2018 Asia Cup.

Our players and fans’ heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy and the amount of overconfidence and overestimation of our mediocre abilities was staggering.

We actually received an early dose of reality in January 2018 when we were blanked 5-0 in New Zealand, but we comically brushed that aside and blamed it on ‘poor preparation’.

The New Zealand series was followed by relentless minnow-bashing which our fans and players mistook for a genuine upward shift in the outlook of the Pakistan team.

It was said that under the leadership of Sarfraz, Pakistan was finally stepping out of the dark days with Babar leading the way along with PSL superstars like Shadab, Hasan, Fakhar, Faheem etc.

It was said that the Champions Trophy was going to be a ‘Miandad six’ moment, with the momentum tilting towards Pakistan against India, and how this new generation of fearless Pakistani cricketers would not get overwhelmed by the grand occasion of Pakistan vs India.

The shallow arrogance crept into our players as well. Sarfraz claimed that India was afraid of playing Pakistan, and Hasan Ali announced his intentions of taking 10 wickets against India only a few days after embarrassing himself on the border.

Unfortunately or fortunately, all of the delusions and optimism flamed out in September 2018 which proved to be a brutal reality check for the players as well as the fans.

India, without arguably the greatest ODI batsman of all time, thrashed Pakistan twice in the space of one week with no mercy whatsoever.

They pretty much thumped us in both games with only two batsmen, and the gulf in class between the two sides even without Kohli was embarrassingly huge.

The Asia Cup humiliation completely destroyed the confidence of players like Sarfraz, Hasan and Fakhar who never recovered from that reality-check.

It was a proper kick in the gut for not only the players but also the fans because after all the big talk, we once again proved how deeply mediocre we were, and how India was a good three levels above us even without Kohli.

The insult to injury was of course the Bangladesh match. For 3 years, Pakistan brushed aside the whitewash in Bangladesh and called it a one-off.

Our fans argued that Bangladesh would not stand a chance against the amazing leadership of Sarfraz, but all of that talk turned to dust when they defeated us only days after India’s embarrassing double.

In a nutshell, the Champions Trophy euphoria completed died when we were shown our “aukaat” in the Asia Cup.

Mamoon, it must still hurt you that your team was absolutely battered in the CT final by 180 runs! Who cares about the Asia cup? I would take a Champions Trophy over 20 Asian Cups.
 
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This squad post CT17 beat the weaker teams and hardly won against the stronger ones. The only positive is that guys like Faheem, Shadab and Hasan have time on their side and therefore have time to work on their games and level up. Faheem and Shadab are in for the England tour so let's see how they fare. Unpopular opinion, but I feel that Faheem will come good.
 
Weren't they ranked 8th going into the tournament?

Yeah, they won and all but it still takes time for a team to build on it and consistently become a top team. In the tournament, Pakistan bowlers went on a tear and basically won them the trophy but I don't think its all doom and gloom like people in this thread are making it to be.

Babar has truly become elite. Shadab is well on his way to become a proper all rounder. You have a tremendous young bowlers in Shaheen and Naseem as well as an outstanding batting prospect in Haider Ali. I believe in Fakhar as well and I don't think he has been as bad as people think. In 2019, his average is 34.15 with a 90.94 SR. It's not great but its not that bad if this is him "struggling". And keep in mind, that 2019 stats include 20 ODI's where 13 are in England, 5 in SA and only 2 in Pakistan.

It's still going to take Pakistan some time to build up, you can't do it overnight and ODI wise, I think they are progressing in the right direction even if its not as fast as we want it to be. I can't say the same for the Test squad however.
 
The fact that everyone on this forum still talks about it shows the lack of progression since then

CT win was easily a top 5 moment in Pakistan Cricket history
This is a Pakistan cricket forum
And we haven't had any actual cricket in months.

What exactly do you want people to talk about here?
 
Mamoon, it must still hurt you that your team was absolutely battered in the CT final by 180 runs! Who cares about the Asia cup? I would take a Champions Trophy over 20 Asian Cups.

Good to know that Pakistan were humiliated in the Asia Cup because they ‘did not care’. Perhaps that is why they lost got humiliated in the World Cup match last year because they ‘did not care’, even though that loss cost us a place in the knockouts.

Keeping holding onto the Champions Trophy because that is what fans of mediocre teams do. They don’t get to taste success often so they have no choice but to milk it until the udders run completely dry.
 
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CT win was easily a top 5 moment in Pakistan Cricket history
This is a Pakistan cricket forum
And we haven't had any actual cricket in months.

What exactly do you want people to talk about here?

Even before COVID, it was constantly talked about. Nobody in Aus forums for example is talking about the WC win
 
What a cynical performance that was from the Pak team in the entire tournament, except in their first match against India. I knew before the final that if Pak qualifies for the final, it will be a big hassle for India. They completely bullied their opponents till they reached the final, and ultimately bullied us. If ever a team won a tournament without any shred of luck, it was this. No other team in the tournament deserved to win the tournament more than Pakistan.

Having said that, I'll also admit that I'll probably never get over this loss. The only other loss that I've still not got over is that loss at the Chennai Test match in 1999. Trust me, whenever I've managed to watch that Chennai Test over highlights, I've managed to stop the footage after Sachin was dismissed.
 
Everything came crashing down in the 2018 Asia Cup.

Our players and fans’ heads were in the clouds after the Champions Trophy and the amount of overconfidence and overestimation of our mediocre abilities was staggering.

We actually received an early dose of reality in January 2018 when we were blanked 5-0 in New Zealand, but we comically brushed that aside and blamed it on ‘poor preparation’.

The New Zealand series was followed by relentless minnow-bashing which our fans and players mistook for a genuine upward shift in the outlook of the Pakistan team.

It was said that under the leadership of Sarfraz, Pakistan was finally stepping out of the dark days with Babar leading the way along with PSL superstars like Shadab, Hasan, Fakhar, Faheem etc.

It was said that the Champions Trophy was going to be a ‘Miandad six’ moment, with the momentum tilting towards Pakistan against India, and how this new generation of fearless Pakistani cricketers would not get overwhelmed by the grand occasion of Pakistan vs India.

The shallow arrogance crept into our players as well. Sarfraz claimed that India was afraid of playing Pakistan, and Hasan Ali announced his intentions of taking 10 wickets against India only a few days after embarrassing himself on the border.

Unfortunately or fortunately, all of the delusions and optimism flamed out in September 2018 which proved to be a brutal reality check for the players as well as the fans.

India, without arguably the greatest ODI batsman of all time, thrashed Pakistan twice in the space of one week with no mercy whatsoever.

They pretty much thumped us in both games with only two batsmen, and the gulf in class between the two sides even without Kohli was embarrassingly huge.

The Asia Cup humiliation completely destroyed the confidence of players like Sarfraz, Hasan and Fakhar who never recovered from that reality-check.

It was a proper kick in the gut for not only the players but also the fans because after all the big talk, we once again proved how deeply mediocre we were, and how India was a good three levels above us even without Kohli.

The insult to injury was of course the Bangladesh match. For 3 years, Pakistan brushed aside the whitewash in Bangladesh and called it a one-off.

Our fans argued that Bangladesh would not stand a chance against the amazing leadership of Sarfraz, but all of that talk turned to dust when they defeated us only days after India’s embarrassing double.

In a nutshell, the Champions Trophy euphoria completed died when we were shown our “aukaat” in the Asia Cup.

This is true. India did not read too much into the defeat except for a bad day in office & need for good wrist spinners in future. Pakistan made to much of the win ( may be justifiably so ) but forgot it was probably a one-off. India just went into Asia Cup wthout thinking much abt it ( even resting Kohli ) while Pakistan was openly talking about being favorites & how Hasan Ali will take 10 wickets

Bcoz Pakistan was so gung ho abt CT 17 win & so over confident going into the Asia Cup - those 2 defeats to India just destroyed the confidence & morale of players like Fakhar, Hasan & Sarfraz and they never really recovered from it

A good example of why you should not celebrate your victories too much or take your defeats too badly
 
This is true. India did not read too much into the defeat except for a bad day in office & need for good wrist spinners in future. Pakistan made to much of the win ( may be justifiably so ) but forgot it was probably a one-off. India just went into Asia Cup wthout thinking much abt it ( even resting Kohli ) while Pakistan was openly talking about being favorites & how Hasan Ali will take 10 wickets

Bcoz Pakistan was so gung ho abt CT 17 win & so over confident going into the Asia Cup - those 2 defeats to India just destroyed the confidence & morale of players like Fakhar, Hasan & Sarfraz and they never really recovered from it

A good example of why you should not celebrate your victories too much or take your defeats too badly

The problem with our players and our fans is that it takes one victory for them to lose sight of reality. Regardless of what happened in the Champions Trophy, there was no comparison between the two sides. It was simply a one-off event where everything went right for Pakistan and everything went wrong for India.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating it. It was a huge moment in Pakistan cricket’s history and a record breaking victory in a tournament final, but we should have realized that it was not the start of something special. We still had severe shortcomings that we needed to address.

The fact that we didn’t wake up after the whitewash in New Zealand summed up how deluded we had become.
 
The problem with our players and our fans is that it takes one victory for them to lose sight of reality. Regardless of what happened in the Champions Trophy, there was no comparison between the two sides. It was simply a one-off event where everything went right for Pakistan and everything went wrong for India.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating it. It was a huge moment in Pakistan cricket’s history and a record breaking victory in a tournament final, but we should have realized that it was not the start of something special. We still had severe shortcomings that we needed to address.

The fact that we didn’t wake up after the whitewash in New Zealand summed up how deluded we had become.

Dhoni's biggest contribution to Indian cricket is too keep everyone grounded. Even after 2011 WC win , we rarely saw Dhoni giving tv interviews or taking part in grand celebrations. In fact I dont remember Dhoni even mentioning the WC win in any press conference afterwards. Once he famously said - " irrespective of I win or lose, when i go home my 3 dogs greet him with in same manner". Thats a great attitude to have !

In contrast Pakistanis too celebrate bit too much. Remeber the Aane do series. Nasir Jamshed - the star of that series was looking a poor caricature of himself 2 yrs later. Same with Junaid Khan

ps : when I see Naseem Shah giving too many interviews I really worry abt him. He is talking bit too much for someone who has just 1 hat trick against Bangladesh B team to show for !!!
 
Pakistan struggled a bit right after the Champions Trophy but I think they are starting to get better in ODI.

They have found a few core players like Babar, Imam, Imad, Shaheen etc.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Presented with these awards by legends <a href="https://twitter.com/RickyPonting?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@rickyponting</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/SGanguly99?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SGanguly99</a> was amazing moment for me. Great memories!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakistanZindabad?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PakistanZindabad</a> ���� <a href="https://t.co/ZhLhLJSTsC">pic.twitter.com/ZhLhLJSTsC</a></p>— Hassan Ali ���� (@RealHa55an) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealHa55an/status/1273480574506844160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
The Champions Trophy victory really was due to a perfect confluence of events, i.e. the emergence of Hassan Ali and Fakhar Zaman, Junaid Khan being an effective opening partner for Amir, Azhar Ali making vital contributions and Sarfaraz showing some fighting qualities.

However, that victory really was like a house of cards because:

Both Azhar and Junaid were in the last effective phase of their international careers. Malik has finally retired from ODIs after the 2019 WC. However Hafeez STILL remains.

Backups for Hassan Ali and Amir were either not on the horizon, didn't develop or weren't given opportunities (That's on Inzi, Mickey and Sarfi). Thus we bowled Hassan Ali and Amir into the ground, which made them less effective because of how much the opposition were facing them. The results of over bowling them have been Hassan Ali's injuries and Amir's test retirement.

Overexposure of Shadab Khan - Shadab has played almost every game for Pakistan, and also appeared extensively in other T20 leagues. The results of this have been that Batsmen can now read him quite easily, as there are hours of footage of his bowling for other teams to analyse. Again, we did not develop any bench strength since 2017 and thus the lack of effectiveness of Shadab has cost Pakistan. Fakhar Zaman has similarly been shown up through overexposure.

There has been very little in the way of development and changes in Pakistan's batting reserves. The only alternative openers that emerged post 2017 were Imam and a 32 year old Abid Ali. Abid may have a dynamic strike rate but Imam is yet another accumulator.

The Pakistan middle order reserves continue to be almost completely dry. Babar's development aside, Hafeez is STILL around, Haris Sohail, whilst a good player, is injury ridden and Umar Akmal is his own worst enemy. Asif Ali was ultimately a failure and Malik has gone from ODIs now. The jury remains out on Iftikhar, but in any case he is only a short term option. Haider Ali is one bright spark on the horizon and Khushdil Shah, InshAllah through coaching and development could become another.

The wicket keepers position remains a dilemma in limited overs cricket. Sarfraz, through captaincy pressures and age has regressed. The current incumbent, Rizwan, is yet another accumulator in a batting line up full of them. Rohail Nazir may be an answer to wicketkeeper batsmen dilemma, as may a trimmed down Azam Khan or a Mohammed Haris.

So, it really is forward squad planning which is where Pakistan have been let down. It's not easy to provide alternatives to that 2017 team, but the chief selector at the time and coach should have foreseen this and started phasing out players and rotating others much earlier. The result would have made the Pakistan ODI team have a more consistent performance base rather than where they find themselves today.
 
The Champions Trophy win in 2017 is a on par with 1992 world cup win.

A lot of people on this forum and elsewhere seem to forget the turmoil Pakistan cricket team has been through in the decade before this win. Let me list the obvious as a refresher to all.

- Losing 3 above average / regular feature players (Salman, Asif and Amir). They deserve what they got but this post is identifying the impact when a regular player is lost. For better understanding look what impact Warner and Smith less Aussie side had when India toured.

- Exile from home cricket. I'm not sure many people can understand the gravity of being exiled to play at home and the impact it has on a cricket team. It impacts the financial ability, morale / motivation, development of domestic / upcoming players, infrastructure, etc. In a nutshell, no cricket at home can severely impact the existence of the sport in that country. Look at the impact the politics have caused over the years to Kenya and Zimbabwe. These countries were not supported by tours from other countries and neither were they invited for tours and today they are non-existent in cricket world.

- Lack of cricket. On top of no cricket at home, Pakistan was easily the team that had played lowest ratio of matches as compared to other top 8 countries. Pakistan was not invited for many tours in the decade before 2017 (only recently they toured Eng/SAF/Aus) and their series usually were limited to 2 tests or 3 odis. The lack of game practice meant the existing team never had the chance to try new players or give seniors a rest and indulge in rotation culture. As players were anyways earning so little they had to ensure they played all matches to continue earning max of what they can.

To imagine a country going through very serious turmoil in the decade before 2017 to show up in a tournament and win a world tournament is very emphatic. If ever there is resilience to be made an example of then it is this Pakistan cricket team that notched up a historical tournament win from depths of lows.

Since winning the CT in 2017, the team has had its highs and lows. Let's face it Pakistan is still a low ranked international team as decades of turmoil will not simply go away with CT win. Hence, for them to qualify for knockouts in world cup was a challenging ask. Having said that in world cup Pakistan team can feel slightly unlucky to lose points due to rain affected match. In either case, the world cup campaign was neither a success nor a disappointment.

In tests post CT win, Pakistan has done remarkably well on its England tours and have failed on the tours to SAF and AUS. The test team is not as ahead as limited overs team. Given the introduction of new pacers, we might see Pakistan start doing well on SENA tours.

Finally, the best thing that has happened to Pak cricket post CT win 2017 is introduction of Ehsan Mani and Wasim Khan. It would come as a surprise but the press releases and management of players / support staff has been done way more professionally now than it has ever done before. The only criticism I have of this team of EM and WK is that they should not have let go of Mickey Arthur. Mickey together with these two could have accelerated the professionalism across the Board. However, given where we are I'm confident that we are heading in the right direction. Pakistan cricket is also slowly but surely becoming self-reliant financially through PSL. If no political changes happen in the next 5 years I can see Pakistan cricket entering the top 4 of world cricket and being a genuine contender to world cup and test championships by 2025.
 
I think we dined out on that CT17 win a tad too much. Despite some phenomenal performances especially against England and India, we were ranked 8th in ODIs before that tournament for a reason. Most importantly, the limitations of the stars of that tournament became apparent.

Fakhar Zaman even in that tournament was not convincing at all against the short ball, his helmet must have averaged 30 alone. He's scored runs in crunch games - T20 final vs Australia, 3rd ODI vs New Zealand in UAE, was our best bat by a distance in the 5-0 whitewash in NZ - so I still have a soft spot for him and still retains a decent ODI record, but opponents have exposed his technical flaws. And at his age I don't know if they're fixable.

Hasan Ali bowled exceptionally well but as discussed endlessly here, a bowler of his height has such little margin for error with length. He's also picked up injuries and with emergence of Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf and Hasnain he's suddenly at the back of the line.

Shadab Khan was tipped as our next premier all-rounder, and management still rates him highly as he finds himself in squads in all formats and is captain of Islamabad United. However Shadab leaks way too many runs for a frontline spinner, he's always liable to bowl one bad ball an over.

This is Shadab's record since the start of the 2018 Asia Cup compared with other spinners who've played more than 10 ODIs. You see Shadab's not in that elite class.

Screenshot_20200618-115753_Kiwi Browser~01.jpg

I feel management have overplayed him and not allowed him to learn his craft in domestic cricket where he can work on his accuracy bowling long spells. His batting also needs work, his SR is appalling for a lower order batsman !

Sarfraz captained his troops exceptionally well but he failed to finish teams off from advantageous positions. His batting form nosedived and couldn't justify his own place.

WORST mistake of all however was not retiring Mohammed Hafeez and Shoaib Malik afterwards ! They could've left on a high but we prolonged their careers despite being sitting ducks against quality pace. Both have horrid records outside Asia and were passengers at the World Cup. I cannot believe Haris Sohail and Hussain Talat sat out so many games for these guys because of our senior worshipping mentality !

Ultimately Pakistan, like West Indies in 2004, couldn't sustain that one-off success because of a weak system that fails to improve youngsters that start their careers with a bang only to fade away once opponents do their homework. The players got complacent and management compounded the situation with poor strategies. However CT17 remains the fondest cricket memory of my life and we should be proud of how we upset the odds.
 
The 2017-19 batch off players made up one of the best LOI teams we managed to produce in a long time. The team had one leader, gelled as a unit and we played Cricket!

Still think if we could have got into the semis of the World Cup we would have won it.
 
In that semi-final, Rumman Raees appeared on the scene like peak Sohail Tanvir. Highly skilled and canny. Sadly, he hasn't been seen or heard of much since then.
 
Doesn't matter if some players declined after that win.

A win is a win.

I would have happily lost some Indian players if it meant a WC win in 19.
 
In that semi-final, Rumman Raees appeared on the scene like peak Sohail Tanvir. Highly skilled and canny. Sadly, he hasn't been seen or heard of much since then.

Form, fitness, injuries.

Another lost to the legends of the PCB medical dept.
 
If we are truly honest Pakistan cricket has not improved since then. It a moment of joy but we aren't a better side and still won't challenge at the top of the rankings for a while.
 
After CT 2017 win by Pak, I really thought WC 19 would be a piece of cake for them
 
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The problem is that we dined out on this win way too much. We needed to beat India in the World Cup last year to prove it wasn't a fluke but we failed miserably.

Hassan Ali has been the biggest disappointment for me. He looked like an real intelligent bowler in that tournament who could have served us well for many years but got caught up by the hype.
 
The problem is that we dined out on this win way too much. We needed to beat India in the World Cup last year to prove it wasn't a fluke but we failed miserably.

Hassan Ali has been the biggest disappointment for me. He looked like an real intelligent bowler in that tournament who could have served us well for many years but got caught up by the hype.

The fluke nature of the Champions Trophy was proved when we were whitewashed in New Zealand and got smashed by India twice in the Asia Cup without Kohli.

By the time the World Cup match happened, it was already established that Pakistan is no match for India unless India have a terrible day.
 
Since CT17

24 losses including 3 out of 3 versus India, 6 out of 6 versus Australia and 3 losses out of 4 against England.

22 wins of which 5 were versus Zimbabwe, 2 versus Afghanistan and 1 versus Hong Kong.

Poor numbers if the truth be told. An average team which comes unstuck against the stronger teams.
 
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Since CT17

24 losses including 3 out of 3 versus India, 6 out of 6 versus Australia and 3 losses out of 4 against England.

22 wins of which 5 were versus Zimbabwe, 2 versus Afghanistan and 1 versus Hong Kong.

Poor numbers if the truth be told. An average team which comes unstuck against the stronger teams.

They’ve been playing a very timid brand of ODI cricket.

They still racked up 350 scores v England last year whilst England were going for 450 on the same tracks. They have the ingredients to be on par with the top 3, but I can’t understand why we are so poor with our approach
 
Hassan Ali has been the biggest disappointment for me he looked so good in the CT and it looked like he was going to be a great.

Only Babar has really progressed from the CT group, maybe Imad Wasim's batting also.

Thankfully, Shaheen has emerged, which somewhat softens Hassan's decline.
 
They’ve been playing a very timid brand of ODI cricket.

They still racked up 350 scores v England last year whilst England were going for 450 on the same tracks. They have the ingredients to be on par with the top 3, but I can’t understand why we are so poor with our approach

I don't really see the timid brand of cricket really changing under Misbah though.

Babar has been a breath of fresh air, but unfortunately too many of the others form and fitness has nosedived.
 
Since CT17

24 losses including 3 out of 3 versus India, 6 out of 6 versus Australia and 3 losses out of 4 against England.

22 wins of which 5 were versus Zimbabwe, 2 versus Afghanistan and 1 versus Hong Kong.

Poor numbers if the truth be told. An average team which comes unstuck against the stronger teams.

and yet we missed out on a World Cup semi final place on NRR beating the two finalists and South Africa along the way.

Point being that in tournaments, a lot has to do with small margins and weather can play a part. However, no one can deny that we were the form team going to the last 4 games of that World Cup and similarly we won the CT17 cup on merit.

When it comes to tournaments, we tend to do ok
 
and yet we missed out on a World Cup semi final place on NRR beating the two finalists and South Africa along the way.

Point being that in tournaments, a lot has to do with small margins and weather can play a part. However, no one can deny that we were the form team going to the last 4 games of that World Cup and similarly we won the CT17 cup on merit.

When it comes to tournaments, we tend to do ok

Apart from 2011, 2017, and 2019, we have failed in all world cups and CT’s since 1999.
 
Apart from 2011, 2017, and 2019, we have failed in all world cups and CT’s since 1999.

So if anything, as our ranking goes down we do better at world events...

Mate to be honest I’m not really bothered about limited overs stuff. I watch the games and want us to do well in Tournaments but ranking don’t really mean much, not when there’s only 10 top tier nations playing the game.
 
Even before COVID, it was constantly talked about. Nobody in Aus forums for example is talking about the WC win

Your World Cup win was over 5 years ago that’s why. And Aus dominated world cups from 1999-2007 so it stays in peoples mind cause they were so strong. This was unexpected so it’s still being talked about and probably did more long term damage to the team cause the younger players became overconfident and stopped working hard and Hafeez and Malik are still in the team..
Also England’s WC win will still be talked about for a long time despite of the unfair result.
 
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