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Time to rebuild like India, South Africa and Australia have...

GLORY OF '92

Test Debutant
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Runs
13,521
Last 5 Tests have been horrific. We need to renew our Test team.

My Team for our next Test or the WI tour would be :

Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Asad
?
Sharjeel
Sarfraz
Amir
Yasir
Hasan Ali
?

2 spots I'm unsure of. Babar, Aslam and Sarfraz need to deliver soon or we need to try alternatives.

Sharjeel is a must. We saw what aggressive batting does.
 
Last 5 Tests have been horrific. We need to renew our Test team.

My Team for our next Test or the WI tour would be :

Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Asad
?
Sharjeel
Sarfraz
Amir
Yasir
Hasan Ali
?

2 spots I'm unsure of. Babar, Aslam and Sarfraz need to deliver soon or we need to try alternatives.

Sharjeel is a must. We saw what aggressive batting does.

If you're going to have Sharjeel then he's got to open surely? Azhar and everyone else just shifts down one spot. You also spelt Rahat incorrectly. :rahat
 
Last 5 Tests have been horrific. We need to renew our Test team.

My Team for our next Test or the WI tour would be :

Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Asad
?
Sharjeel
Sarfraz
Amir
Yasir
Hasan Ali
?

2 spots I'm unsure of. Babar, Aslam and Sarfraz need to deliver soon or we need to try alternatives.

Sharjeel is a must. We saw what aggressive batting does.

Why yasir is their?
 
Hassan ll not b good for Tests, have to find someone else.
send back Aslam back to domestic, he need to change his approach to batting, u need to score too once you are at crease. or cash it once you have done all the hard work.
 
Like for many of us Indian fans did during the 0-8 thrashing of 2011-12 in Eng and Aus, best pain reliever is a T20 league. It was IPL for us back then, PSL should help Pak supporters get over some of the disappointments of last 3-4 months.
 
Like for many of us Indian fans did during the 0-8 thrashing of 2011-12 in Eng and Aus, best pain reliever is a T20 league. It was IPL for us back then, PSL should help Pak supporters get over some of the disappointments of last 3-4 months.

we rebuild because we had good players and No many of us didn't use IPL for pain relief, test cricket is test cricket,Pain was lessened by wins in Sri lanka WI and then winning big at home
 
Take Sharjeel on a tour to England, NZ, SA or Australia he wouldn't last a couple of overs, would be found out way too easily by the likes of Starc, Anderson etc..

Anywhere else his batting might click.
 
I really don't get these threads 'rebuild' 'overhaul' etc etc
 
YK has had a poor series averaging 27.50. But nowhere near as bad as Misbah, Sami, and Babar. Those three have averaged 5, 12, and 15 respectively.
 
I think with their selection blunders Pak has lost another 2-3 years . Pakistan should have dropped the likes of YK and Misbah 2 years back when they where playing at home even at the risk of losing a few matches and should have got a young but slightly experienced team . They would have probably still lost , but with the experience gained these youngsters would have been ready and prepared next time Pak tours . I just hope , they dont discard Babar and Aslam , and get Hafeez and Farhat back now .
 
YK has had a poor series averaging 27.50. But nowhere near as bad as Misbah, Sami, and Babar. Those three have averaged 5, 12, and 15 respectively.

YK cannot be compared to Sami and Babar . How many times has he toured Aus in the past ? Isnt he supposed to be a Pak great ?
 
We have lost 5 in a row. We need to learn from Australia and make some changes.

Australia has a functioning domestic system which produces quality players, we don't. Australia have replacements, we don't.
We are finished.
 
I think with their selection blunders Pak has lost another 2-3 years . Pakistan should have dropped the likes of YK and Misbah 2 years back when they where playing at home even at the risk of losing a few matches and should have got a young but slightly experienced team . They would have probably still lost , but with the experience gained these youngsters would have been ready and prepared next time Pak tours . I just hope , they dont discard Babar and Aslam , and get Hafeez and Farhat back now .

Doesn't matter, we don't produce quality players anymore. The domestic scene is filled with mediocrity. We just don't have replacements.
 
I really don't get these threads 'rebuild' 'overhaul' etc etc

Let people vent. Obviously the manner of defeat is terrible but Pakistan lose in Australia - what's new ?

If we had to dismantle the side every time we lost in Australia we wouldn't much of a Test team left. It doesn't take away the progress that has been made in the last six years and there's still some good players to build around.

However the bowling attack does need an overhaul. The lack of a quality right-arm pacer is worrying and the ones in the squad Arthur doesn't seem to rate. Our new ball bowling has lacked penetration and discipline in line and length for some time. Wahab's no-balls and Sohail's fitness remain problematic.

Then you have the problems of our lead bowler whom we're too dependent on to bowl us to victory. The fields haven't helped but Yasir's biggest strength was meant to be control yet he's bowled pies in this Test.
 
Lets Aus srep foot in India then we ll see how their "rebuilding" has worked

As for Pak, we need to rotate our bowlers alot, just like Indian team been doing for last few years, give every bowler 4-5 series and then changed combination be fore international teams get used to them. Need to try out different bowlers for tests n ODIs too.
 
Last 5 Tests have been horrific. We need to renew our Test team.

My Team for our next Test or the WI tour would be :

Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Asad
?
Sharjeel
Sarfraz
Amir
Yasir
Hasan Ali
?

2 spots I'm unsure of. Babar, Aslam and Sarfraz need to deliver soon or we need to try alternatives.

Sharjeel is a must. We saw what aggressive batting does.

We are rebuilding our team for last 10+ years. No matter whom you brought as coach or selectors it will still be the same. Otherwise after the loss at least they can take some positive steps but Inzi retained Rahat in the ODI squad.
 
Let people vent. Obviously the manner of defeat is terrible but Pakistan lose in Australia - what's new ?
However the bowling attack does need an overhaul. The lack of a quality right-arm pacer is worrying and the ones in the squad Arthur doesn't seem to rate. Our new ball bowling has lacked penetration and discipline in line and length for some time. Wahab's no-balls and Sohail's fitness remain problematic.
Than Rahat and Irfan retained it the squad
 
Your domestic set up is simply not good enough. Why not have a strength vs strength system? Also your teams need to play more A tours abroad so that your batsmen can learn to play the moving ball. If you do this then within 3 years you guys can have a consistent crack at test matches. Chopping and changing players ain't going to help much.
 
I'm assuming Rahat got selected because he's one of your best players at domestic level? That says a lot about your problems as a cricket teams.
 
Misbah I guess will retire after the Sydney test.If he doesn't,he should be forced to retire by the PCB(won't happen though).Younus will stick around until he reaches 10K runs.He will probably achieve the landmark in WI next year.He should then be asked to leave and if he doesn't he should be forced.So,for the Bangladesh tour,Usman Salahuddin should be chosen at No.4.No.5 is a bit tricky.Maybe Asad should move up a place in the order.Haris Sohail(after reaching full fitness and performing in FC or Grade II) should be taken into consideration
As for the bowling,we need to discard Rahat,and choose a fast bowling all rounder.Groom him for upcoming tours.Nawaz should continue for a while and if he doesn't perform replace him with Asghar(yes,a bowler)
 
Unfortunately this pakistan team is still living in the era of Rahul Dravid,Sehwag,Ricky ponting,Jayasuriya,strauss if not now then i don't think so we will ever be able to rebuild, need some positive steps if people come on TV and threaten to shoot themselve then be it let them shoot people will only mourn for few days !

This rebuilding phase is like Lahore's Gaddafi stadium's rebuiling never finishing !
 
They need a leader not just a captain. Kohli is a leader. All players have nice things to say about him and he reciprocates. Also he has very smart people like Pujara, Ashwin, Vijay in the side . Pakistan is handicapped in that area. Everyone needs guidance. They might win a few. But to motivate the side to win match after match they need a stable leader with clear vision. Azhar, Asad have proper test match temperament. Team should be built around them.
 
Didn't Pakistan play full team even against Zim in the last test series? If you don't play younger ones even against an un-ranked team, who were fighting to get paid, then you can never finish this rebuilding non-sense.
 
Last 5 Tests have been horrific. We need to renew our Test team.

My Team for our next Test or the WI tour would be :

Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Asad
?
Sharjeel
Sarfraz
Amir
Yasir
Hasan Ali
?

2 spots I'm unsure of. Babar, Aslam and Sarfraz need to deliver soon or we need to try alternatives.

Sharjeel is a must. We saw what aggressive batting does.

you talk about rebuild but you have still selected failures, whats the point :facepalm:
 
We have lost 5 in a row. We need to learn from Australia and make some changes.

Learn from australia? Lol just wait before they finish their tour of india first. Pak nearly chased the target in the first test. And I blame Pakistan for having a br@inf@rt once again in the second innings of the second test.
 
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Fawad Alam should be given a slot at number 5. He has been ignored criminally
 
Arent we always rebuilding the team ? Funny before this series alot of ppl wanted to Asad and Azhar out and now it's in everyone's list
 
First priority is to bring back Salman Butt and Mohammed Asif. They are good performers. If Amir can be back, why can't they?
 
Is it rebuild or recycle? :yk2

Purpose of rebuilding is all about strengthening the team - that can happen with ONLY with stability, continuity & experience. Also, it'll be unfair for the new Captain to be given charge at this time when team is going through a tough time. After this - WI, ICC CT, away tour to BD, SAF & England in 2018 summer, after that again the AUS/ENG/SAF at home - it's almost always will be unfair; therefore it's better to appoint Misbah till he can walk in to field on his own feet.
 
First priority is to bring back Salman Butt and Mohammed Asif. They are good performers. If Amir can be back, why can't they?

No, first priority is to bring the official average age of the team at around 25 level - we are in 2017 almost; now players are valued on the impact they can give for 450 overs. Experience is useless unless you have the refelx to use that. AUS didn't won only because PAK played poor - they had 2 fast bowlers capable of bowling at 140-150KM on 15th session of an MCG Test after almost 50 overs bowling & the faster one batted for 2 hours in same morning - you'll need 18 wheeler to pull PAK pacers after half the work load. Barring Amir, everyone has 5-6 years hidden in their age & now pretending to be fast bowlers in their mid to late 30s.
 
Life beyond Younis Khan

Not sure why the Pak selectors are scared to take the big calls.

Lol Misbah ul Haq is not even a factor, he was never a great player to begin with and now even as captain he has been exposed, there is no debate that he is done.

I just wish the PCB selectors had the guts like the BCCI selectors, they dropped the likes of Dravid, Laxman, Teenda, Sehwag and co in 2012, 2013 so ruthlessly when they showed irreversable decline and still took the risk of hurtling the likes of Murali Vijay, Rohit Sharma and Rahane even when there were question marks whether they could replace their pre-decessors. Results or not, India moved on and now their players are rising to the occasion.

Pakistan might not become the No 1 team in ODI, T-20's or even test Cricket. But we must move on and make the best of what we have i.e.

Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Sharjeel Khan, Babar Azam, Umar Akmal, Asad Shafiq and other players. It is time for Azhar Ali and Shafiq to take on the responsibility and be the senior batsmen in the team.
 
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I would invest in: Azhar, Sharjeel, Babar, Haris, Asad, Umar.

I like how you sneaked in Shehzad there. He is neither technically equipped nor a gifted strokemaker. It's pointless investing in him. He's a product of the bowling machine where he times balls well in his zone due to repetition over the years which has mislead many into thinking he's a gifted strokemaker. Anything out of that zone, he's out of his depth and struggles to put the ball away or hesitantly pokes because of poor positioning.
 
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Kneejerk reaction. Prior to visiting NZ and Australia many like I predicted getting hammered like we have been. Those suggesting we had a chance against the Aussies were mislead by South Africa's performance there. We won't get better until we play more Cricket in such conditions.
 
My test squad for wi:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Fakhar Zaman
4. Usman Salahuddin
5. Babar Azam
6. Asad Shafiq
7. Sarfaraz
8. Amir
9. Yasir Shah
10. Hassan Ali
11. Imran Khan

12. Sharjeel Khan
13. Asghar
14. Mir Hamza
15. Nawaz
 
We "rebuild" after every series defeat. Without long term planning at domestic level we'll just be going around in circles.
 
I would invest in: Azhar, Sharjeel, Babar, Haris, Asad, Umar.

I like how you sneaked in Shehzad there. He is neither technically equipped nor a gifted strokemaker. It's pointless investing in him. He's a product of the bowling machine where he times balls well in his zone due to repetition over the years which has mislead many into thinking he's a gifted strokemaker. Anything out of that zone, he's out of his depth and struggles to put the ball away or hesitantly pokes because of poor positioning.

Well said. Those names should be the core of our Test and ODI batting lineups for the foreseeable future. (Azhar and Asad just for Tests)
Need to do find an opener to partner Sharjeel in ODIs. I would suggest Babar with Haris at 3. And need to find a powerful lower order hitter. As for Tests we need to find an all rounder and a new ball bowler to partner Amir. I would say Aamir Yamin and Hassan Ali. Shehzad is rubbish.
 
Pakistan has started winning in odds after YK and Misbah, I expect the same in tests.

Misbah has been extremely lucky and exceptionally bad captain.

When pcb chairman begs you to be captain and coach wants you be in dressing room for under timed period and you are not accountable for your personal performance ... then you would get these results.
 
My test squad for wi:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Fakhar Zaman
4. Usman Salahuddin
5. Babar Azam
6. Asad Shafiq
7. Sarfaraz
8. Amir
9. Yasir Shah
10. Hassan Ali
11. Imran Khan

12. Sharjeel Khan
13. Asghar
14. Mir Hamza
15. Nawaz
 
Not sure why the Pak selectors are scared to take the big calls.

Lol Misbah ul Haq is not even a factor, he was never a great player to begin with and now even as captain he has been exposed, there is no debate that he is done.

I just wish the PCB selectors had the guts like the BCCI selectors, they dropped the likes of Dravid, Laxman, Teenda, Sehwag and co in 2012, 2013 so ruthlessly when they showed irreversable decline and still took the risk of hurtling the likes of Murali Vijay, Rohit Sharma and Rahane even when there were question marks whether they could replace their pre-decessors. Results or not, India moved on and now their players are rising to the occasion.

Pakistan might not become the No 1 team in ODI, T-20's or even test Cricket. But we must move on and make the best of what we have i.e.

Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Sharjeel Khan, Babar Azam, Umar Akmal, Asad Shafiq and other players. It is time for Azhar Ali and Shafiq to take on the responsibility and be the senior batsmen in the team.

only sehwag was dropped. Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman were not.
 
Well said. Those names should be the core of our Test and ODI batting lineups for the foreseeable future. (Azhar and Asad just for Tests)
Need to do find an opener to partner Sharjeel in ODIs. I would suggest Babar with Haris at 3. And need to find a powerful lower order hitter. As for Tests we need to find an all rounder and a new ball bowler to partner Amir. I would say Aamir Yamin and Hassan Ali. Shehzad is rubbish.

Yamin is too small to be a lower order hitter. However, he's a proper batsman and a capable 5th bowler therefore should be invested it.

Personally I'd bring in Irfan from NBP to partner Amir. Hasan is quality but he needs a bit of strength work to stop the front leg from collapsing which he can't afford at his height. He should remain in the squad as the 4th option though.
 
Hey guys, rebuilding is never easy for any side. Even SA would be in trouble without AB and Amla even though they are either out of form or injured. We still need them for the next two/three years.

But I have a question, how involved/proactive is the PCB regarding A tours?
I've barely heard of a Pakistan A side touring, apart from the recent England tour (which wasn't proactive enough for me anyhow).
Whereas CSA regularly sends our A sides to Australia and India for first class matches. If the BCCI refuse to host us we take a route to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. Even our u/19 side gets to tour Asia from a relatively young age.
Also SA, India and Australia are proactively involved in a triangular series annually, i think it rotates between the three countries.

A tours are crucial to unleashing talent. Does the PCB have anything similar?
If not why not ring up NZ and the ECB to try and organise something similar?
 
Hey guys, rebuilding is never easy for any side. Even SA would be in trouble without AB and Amla even though they are either out of form or injured. We still need them for the next two/three years.

But I have a question, how involved/proactive is the PCB regarding A tours?
I've barely heard of a Pakistan A side touring, apart from the recent England tour (which wasn't proactive enough for me anyhow).
Whereas CSA regularly sends our A sides to Australia and India for first class matches. If the BCCI refuse to host us we take a route to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. Even our u/19 side gets to tour Asia from a relatively young age.
Also SA, India and Australia are proactively involved in a triangular series annually, i think it rotates between the three countries.

A tours are crucial to unleashing talent. Does the PCB have anything similar?
If not why not ring up NZ and the ECB to try and organise something similar?
Recently there's been an effort to organize A and U-19 tours. They've toured England and Zimbabwe this year.
 
We keep seeing the same players in the team again and again. There is no rotation system. And this years umder 19 and a teams players. Not one player made it to any of national team squad. From the domestic performers. Who perform outstandingly. Who are top wicket takers and score heavily. No one is selected. Select the players who are in form. If a player cannot score in domestic how do you expect him to score in international matches where the competition is tougher. Have you seen any batsman from the pak team score heavily in the domestic competition. They should be scoring heavily. Pick the guys who are in form.
 
I don't think we will ever say that our ways have failed and we need to follow examples of other countries .... specially the Indians. They will ask us to show patience and eventually give in with some monumental spin to change the player selection and getting them ready for Intrrnational matches. Meanwhile us fans, have to hope for the best and learn to live with results.
 
Too much emotions here, we will win in Sydney, even if we don't this will still go down as our best tour to Australia is 20 years
 
Didn't Pakistan play full team even against Zim in the last test series? If you don't play younger ones even against an un-ranked team, who were fighting to get paid, then you can never finish this rebuilding non-sense.
We lost to Zim with a full strength team so...

@OP: YK is not going anywhere for the time being. Misbah is def gonna retire before Sydney or after this series.
 
I think we need a fresh XI to invest in.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Babar Azam
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Usman Salahuddin/ Saud Shakeel/ Haris Sohail
6. Fahim Ashraf/ Amir Yamin / Any batting all-rounder that bowls pace
7. Sarfraz Ahmed (C) (WK)
8. Amad Butt/ Zafar Gohar / Shahdab Khan (Depending on conditions)
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Yasir Shah
11. Mir Hamza
 
YK cannot be compared to Sami and Babar . How many times has he toured Aus in the past ? Isnt he supposed to be a Pak great ?

What's your point? If he's a Pak great, you don't drop him for failing in 2 out of 3 innings. If he's experienced, you hope he does well.

Regardless, my point was he's done nowhere near as badly as the other three I referred to. Their spots are not for free, they do not get a pass because two of them are young and new. They are there to score runs. They are not there to gain "experience"and fail.
 
All three teams mentioned need rebuild themselves..
 
We lost to Zim with a full strength team so...

@OP: YK is not going anywhere for the time being. Misbah is def gonna retire before Sydney or after this series.

Yah, it was poor performance in Zim, but you have to play younger ones against minnows otherwise what's the point of those tours?
 
TESTs:
Fakhar Zaman
Azhar Ali (C)
Usman Salahuddin
Fawad Alam
Asad Shafiq (VC)
Haris Sohail
Sarfraz Ahmed (WK)
M Amir (1)
Yasir Shah
M Abbas
M Asif (2)

Bench:
Babar Azam
Sami Aslam
M Rizwan
Usman Khan
Junaid Khan

LOIs:
Sharjeel Khan
Imam ul Haq
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail
Umar Akmal
Sarfraz Ahmed(C & WK)
Hammad Azam
Imad Wasim(VC)
M Amir
Wahab Riaz
Rumman Raees

Bench:
Fakhar Zaman
Junaid Khan
Hasan Ali
Aamir Yamin
Shoaib Malik
 
What's your point? If he's a Pak great, you don't drop him for failing in 2 out of 3 innings. If he's experienced, you hope he does well.

Regardless, my point was he's done nowhere near as badly as the other three I referred to. Their spots are not for free, they do not get a pass because two of them are young and new. They are there to score runs. They are not there to gain "experience"and fail.

The point is hes not just failed in 2 out of 3 innings in this series , he has a history unilke Babar and Alam who have an excuse of being inexperienced .
 
No, first priority is to bring the official average age of the team at around 25 level - we are in 2017 almost; now players are valued on the impact they can give for 450 overs. Experience is useless unless you have the refelx to use that. AUS didn't won only because PAK played poor - they had 2 fast bowlers capable of bowling at 140-150KM on 15th session of an MCG Test after almost 50 overs bowling & the faster one batted for 2 hours in same morning - you'll need 18 wheeler to pull PAK pacers after half the work load. Barring Amir, everyone has 5-6 years hidden in their age & now pretending to be fast bowlers in their mid to late 30s.

They have the ability to return to international fold and perform. Highly talented duo. Age should not be a criteria if they perform.
 
They have the ability to return to international fold and perform. Highly talented duo. Age should not be a criteria if they perform.

Which duo - Starc & Josh? They are 26/27 in AUS, by PAK standard, they are U23 now. By the time they reach Rahat & Sohail & Imran & Wahab & Irfan's age they'll be doing doing commentary on cricket match.

Talent has noting to do with what I have said - from 10-12 yards run-up, I am sure 52 years old Wasim can make few Internationals dance for 2/3 overs, even tomorrow. Age is not a criteria, age is a basic filter - what you are saying is if a business graduate can perform without knowing MS office, what's the problem? The problem is in performance criteria - what KPI you are setting for the player. Analyze PAK's last 10 Tests outside Asia, where Yasir or Ajmal couldn't manage pressure - each & every time PAK has lost ground in 3rd session of the Test or from 4th day on wards.
 
With the exit of Misbah and Yk, it will represent the very last players who played alongside the super stars of the 90's and you could finally say Pakistan will actually be rebuilding for real for the first time since IK exit given that your senior players will now be the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Ahmed Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Sarfaraz Ahmed.

All the makings of an exciting era, boys will be forced to act like men.
 
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