Time to start a petition - Wins away should have a bigger impact on rankings than home wins

[happydavy]

A practical rating system should factor in the important complexities based upon historical data.
ICC test ranking system needs to be overhauled as it works under an assumption that's just not right. It assumes that over 3 years, teams would be playing equal number of away and home matches, which I don't think is true. We all understand that winning at home for any team is significantly easier than winning abroad, so it defies all logic that a team winning a test at home gets the same point as winning a test abroad.

There are other complications as well, such as all matches are treated equally, I think dead rubbers should have less weightage but these are minor points which can be still be absorbed.

May be the important people at PP could start a petition to ICC detailing out the faltered mechanism with enough data?

 

[happydavy]

And this is true even for players rating system. The assumption of any player will play equal number of matches home or abroad is anyway illogical as a batsman could score tons of runs at home and then might get dropped after a couple of matches abroad and hence the logic of playing equal matches home and away will fall flat. Ravindra Jadeja takes bucketful of wickets in India, get his ranking up and then is not even selected for away matches but his points don't get affected but the underlying assumption of him playing equal matches is simply not true.

 

[Haroon786]

Pretty sure rankings factor in away results now as well as beating higher ranked teams? [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

 

[Abdullah719]

Pretty sure rankings factor in away results now as well as beating higher ranked teams? [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

No to the former, yes to the latter.

 

[the Great Khan]

All of Pakistans games in the UAE should be classed as away matches. Until cricket is revived in Pakistan. That will make them tour us lol..

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Agreed. Winning away tests should get you more point s and ,conversely, losing home tests should lose you more points as well.

 

[happydavy]

All of Pakistans games in the UAE should be classed as away matches. Until cricket is revived in Pakistan. That will make them tour us lol..

They are classified as away matches only..there was a detailed interview of David Kendix in guardian when Pakistan became number 1, he explained it there.

 

[happydavy]

Pretty sure rankings factor in away results now as well as beating higher ranked teams? [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

Absolutely sure, rankings don't treat away and home matches differently. Rankings cover 3-4 years period with more weightage to recent matches, and the logic assumed is that over 3-4 years teams would have played equal number of away and home matches.

 

[the_outsider]

Absolutely sure, rankings don't treat away and home matches differently. Rankings cover 3-4 years period with more weightage to recent matches, and the logic assumed is that over 3-4 years teams would have played equal number of away and home matches.

Actually, ICC rankings factor in the last 48 months, with matches played in the most recent 24 months getting twice the weightage of matches played in the preceding 24 months.

 

[the_outsider]

Absolutely sure, rankings don't treat away and home matches differently. Rankings cover 3-4 years period with more weightage to recent matches, and the logic assumed is that over 3-4 years teams would have played equal number of away and home matches.

Also, the assumption of ICC is not that all teams will play the same number of home and away games in a period.

The assumption is that the ratio of home and away games would be similar for most teams in a 4 year cycle.

And that is usually what happens. I'll list the ratio of home/away matches for teams in the last 4 years.

England - 1.33
India - 0.91
SA - 1.22
Aus - 0.95
SL - 0.95


As you can see, the ratio is pretty even across the board.

 

[the_outsider]

A practical rating system should factor in the important complexities based upon historical data.
ICC test ranking system needs to be overhauled as it works under an assumption that's just not right. It assumes that over 3 years, teams would be playing equal number of away and home matches, which I don't think is true. We all understand that winning at home for any team is significantly easier than winning abroad, so it defies all logic that a team winning a test at home gets the same point as winning a test abroad.

There are other complications as well, such as all matches are treated equally, I think dead rubbers should have less weightage but these are minor points which can be still be absorbed.

May be the important people at PP could start a petition to ICC detailing out the faltered mechanism with enough data?

The current ranking system is fine.

A case may be made about giving away wins/draws more weightage but that is not necessary at all.

 

[the Great Khan]

Pakistan should be given special dispensation. We should get bonus points for every match won away while the unofficial boycott of Pakistan is in place.

 

[cricketindiafan]

ICC should make a rule that India will never be ranked in top 3. Will make the ranking system perfect

 

[Josh]

Also if home teams win toss and then win the match ..that should get the home team less numbers.

I reckon India will still be number 1 since no team dominates away your these days and India is a beast at home.

 

[Haroon786]

No to the former, yes to the latter.

I'll take your word for it.

 

[the_outsider]

Pakistan should be given special dispensation. We should get bonus points for every match won away while the unofficial boycott of Pakistan is in place.

It might be better use of your time to think about why the world is avoiding Pakistan than to think about cricket rankings.

 

[the Great Khan]

They are classified as away matches only..there was a detailed interview of David Kendix in guardian when Pakistan became number 1, he explained it there.

if they are classified as away matches already then Pakistan are the best team in the world at the moment who are regularly winning away from home, unlike other teams who can only win at home..

 

[the Great Khan]

It might be better use of your time to think about why the world is avoiding Pakistan than to think about cricket rankings.

it might be better if you spent your time wondering why certain countries are hell bent on destroying another countries culture by sponsoring murderers who shoot up schools..

 

[Saj]

Add your thoughts guys and I will send them on to the ICC.

For the record I've always said that away wins in any format should carry extra weighting when it comes to rankings.

 

[Harshu814]

What i can understand is giving more points for away win but cant understand why people wont consider lose at home a big deal ?

Since from what i see people think winning at home is so easy ,if its so then team should get highest number of deduction points in ranking if they lose at home , you are not scolded for not being able to finish hard task but for easy task
From what i think this is how it shud be

Loosing at home(decrease in ranking)>>Winning away(increase in ranking)>Winning home>losing away
Ofc there must be effect in numbers for to what ranking team u win or lose

But isnt this how it shud be? What u guys think?

 

[Mp812]

if they are classified as away matches already then Pakistan are the best team in the world at the moment who are regularly winning away from home, unlike other teams who can only win at home..

No home matches then for Pakistan so no points since UAE will be considered away matches right

 

[Pete Rose]

Is this because India lost in England and is still ranked number 1

 

[Hasan123]

Winning away from home should get extra points in the ICC ranking. Modern day it is very difficult, so why not reward a team and give them some motivation?

 

[Buffet]

Is this because India lost in England and is still ranked number 1

Off course!!

 

[Buffet]

Winning away from home should get extra points in the ICC ranking. Modern day it is very difficult, so why not reward a team and give them some motivation?

Flip side will be not able to win at home should be penalized equally. Not winning at home should lose more points.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Never in my life I have seen such a hue and cry over rankings.

The rankings were fine for the first few months Misbah got the mace, and when Pakistan started losing in the rankings and our neighbors started climbing, the rankings refused to make sense.

 

[happydavy]

Never in my life I have seen such a hue and cry over rankings.

The rankings were fine for the first few months Misbah got the mace, and when Pakistan started losing in the rankings and our neighbors started climbing, the rankings refused to make sense.

Dude I started this thread and I am an Indian. I genuinely feel that rankings should reflect the tough accomplishments. Today in test cricket, ratio of home victories over away victories is at all time high, and rankings should admit that.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Dude I started this thread and I am an Indian. I genuinely feel that rankings should reflect the tough accomplishments. Today in test cricket, ratio of home victories over away victories is at all time high, and rankings should admit that.

I don't care if you are Ecuadorian.

The rankings were fine as long as Pakistan stayed at the top.

Now a thread a day is being created because India lost while being on top of the rankings.

Need I remind that England lost 3-0 in UAE while being the top ranked team (if I remember correctly), AND NO ONE said they shouldn't be number 1.

 

[AMSS]

Only subcontinental fans would devalue home performances. Borne out of some niggling complex, no doubt.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

I am fine with away wins get more points but home loses should lose more points as well. And if we adopt this approach, India will still remain no.1

 

[Fahdi]

Flip side will be not able to win at home should be penalized equally. Not winning at home should lose more points.

Yes sure do it. But even if you don't the effect will be the same really as the team that won away from home got more points and will be making greater strides in the rankings. Team which lose at home will get penalised automatically by getting ranked lower.

Take a simple scenario. NZ vs SA in SA. SA have 101 points and NZ have 90 points. SA are ranked 2 and NZ are ranked 4. NZ wins a match and gets 5 points. Due to away win they get 2 bonus points. NZ now have 97 points. SA gets penalised by 4 points without any bonus deductions for losing at home. They will end up losing their 2nd rank.

Above is not an accurate portrayal but the point is that all teams will get penalised more for losses at home even if you deduct the same number of points as now.

India's away wins in SA and Eng will be worth more points as before and India in the current scenario will have even more points than they have at the moment.

 

[Fahdi]

I don't care if you are Ecuadorian.

The rankings were fine as long as Pakistan stayed at the top.

Now a thread a day is being created because India lost while being on top of the rankings.

Need I remind that England lost 3-0 in UAE while being the top ranked team (if I remember correctly), AND NO ONE said they shouldn't be number 1.

Well I for one have been saying this for quite some time.

Also this scenario will benefit India at the moment as their two wins away(1 in SA and 1 in Eng) will be worth more points.

And if I remember correctly people did say England shouldn't be number 1 because according to them a team that abysmal in Asian conditions doesn't deserve to be number 1.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Well I for one have been saying this for quite some time.

Also this scenario will benefit India at the moment as their two wins away(1 in SA and 1 in Eng) will be worth more points.

And if I remember correctly people did say England shouldn't be number 1 because according to them a team that abysmal in Asian conditions doesn't deserve to be number 1.

Maybe so.

But if I remember correctly, there was more focus on Pakistan beating the number 1 ranked team and proving they are amazing as they beat the number 1 team.

 

[happydavy]

I don't care if you are Ecuadorian.

The rankings were fine as long as Pakistan stayed at the top.

Now a thread a day is being created because India lost while being on top of the rankings.

Need I remind that England lost 3-0 in UAE while being the top ranked team (if I remember correctly), AND NO ONE said they shouldn't be number 1.

I think overall cricket will be much better in general, if there's a strong incentive for teams to try to win matches abroad..forget what's happened in the past and I am not even disputing no:1 ranking of India, I think cricket will be a lot more fun if teams try everything to win abroad.

 

[the_outsider]

Also, the assumption of ICC is not that all teams will play the same number of home and away games in a period.

The assumption is that the ratio of home and away games would be similar for most teams in a 4 year cycle.

And that is usually what happens. I'll list the ratio of home/away matches for teams in the last 4 years.

England - 1.33
India - 0.91
SA - 1.22
Aus - 0.95
SL - 0.95


As you can see, the ratio is pretty even across the board.

Your entire premise for this thread is wrong, [MENTION=147130]happydavy[/MENTION].

As you can see, home and away games pretty much cancel each other out, over time.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the system.

 

[Fahdi]

Maybe so.

But if I remember correctly, there was more focus on Pakistan beating the number 1 ranked team and proving they are amazing as they beat the number 1 team.

Pakistanis were biased in favour of Pakistan. How utterly shocking!

Most neutral analysts ripped into England. Also Pakistan was in literal shambles at the time, Pakistan winning from that position was amazing giving the circumstances.

But that is besides the point. If India or Pakistan manage to beat Australia in a test in Australia it will be a regarded as an achievement by fans and analysts and the rankings should reflect that. Just as the rankings should reflect the fact that India managed to beat SA in SA and Pakistan has drawn 2 series in England.

India is the toughest team to beat in home conditions. Their record at home is nothing short of extraordinary. If a visiting team manages to beat them at their home they deserve extra points because they have achieved the most difficult feat in test cricket at the moment.