Times Now slammed by UK TV regulator for biased Indo-Pak coverage, channel blames Arnab Goswami

[WebGuru]

There are several instances where the show squarely blames Pakistan for the Kashmir crisis without taking alternative viewpoints into account, the report says.

UK broadcast regulator Ofcom has held Times Now guilty of breaching its broadcast code by presenting news in a biased manner as per a report in Crowdnewsing.

The channel’s parent group Times Global, fearing a closure in UK, has assured the regulator that no personal views will be presented in its programmes and that they will impart training to sensitise their staff on giving unbiased news.

Referring to Times Now’s coverage of the Uri attacks last year, Ofcom says that the channel did not present the news with due impartiality and breached Rule 5.9 of the broadcast code.

The regulator also studied the channel’s discussion on ‘Newshour’ of the mounting tensions between India and Pakistan over Kashmir and published its findings.

There are several instances where the show squarely blames Pakistan for the Kashmir crisis without taking alternative viewpoints into account, the report says quoting those instances.

One of the instances of biased reporting is quoted as follows: “What Pakistan has done...is openly admit that ‘we are organising it, we are managing it, we are funding the protests, we are financing it, we are logistically organising it, we have our terrorist groups leading it”.

The report states, “The programmes included a number of statements that were critical and gave a one-sided view of Pakistan’s policies and actions in relation to, for example, alleged terrorist activities towards India. Given the gravity of the various criticisms being made about Pakistan (for example, Pakistan was variously described as a: “failed state”; “terrorist nation” and “international pariah”), we considered that a key relevant alternative viewpoint was one that reflected the opinion of the Pakistani Government, in particular challenging the criticisms made about Pakistani Government within the programmes.”

Times Global in its response said that it cannot be the purpose of the channel to balance the views from Pakistan or other countries in a rigid fashion but added that it had observed the spirit of ‘Due Impartiality’ rule over the range of its output.

Referring to Arnab Goswami who was anchoring the show at the time, it said, “We can understand some people’s views that the presenter’s role on these programmes seemed to be rather overwhelming and confrontational. He is no longer associated with the channel and has moved out of the organisation”.

Ofcom added that since Arnab’s exit, the presenters who had come in his place have “a very different approach” and have not been airing their personal views in the programmes while also bringing in a wide range of reactions.

Ofcom conducted its study between August and September 2016. It began the study after a complainant found The Newshour edition broadcast on August 1, 2016 to be biased and alerted the broadcaster.



Source: http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...-indo-pak-coverage-channel-blames-arnab-60985

 

[Mian]

Indian propaganda being exposed.

 

[Subaltern]

There is a strong possibility (though not proven) that Pakistan is financing the crisis in Kashmir.

However, there is no disputing the FACT that Pakistan is to blame for the Kashmir problem. I am surprised how many Pakistanis do not understand simple legal facts. Even if India is oppressing the Kashmiris, it still does not change the fact that Kashmir's de-facto bifurcated status is completely the fault of Pakistan.

Here are a few legal facts from international legalism:
A) When a recognized sovereign of nation A accedes to nation B, provided it is in the power of the sovereign and nation B accepts, it is legally binding and valid. Period.

Pakistan used this very same mechanism to absorb Khanate of Qalat in March 27, 1948. Nobody challenges that, nobody argues it is 'illegal'. But Pakistan exposes its legally inconsistent and untenable position that Kashmir is 'disputed'. It is not. It is, legally Indian territory.

b) Pakistan's claim to Kashmir stems from the assumption that 'Indian Kashmiris, if given a choice, would vote in a referendum to become part of Pakistan'. Well, maybe. Probably. But it is still an assumption. We won't know for sure until we actually have a referendum.
And the UN as well as India makes its stance clear on referendum : Pakistan *MUST* vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK), so that the legal sovereign can exercise effective control and conduct referendum, thus representing its legal interest fairly.
This is CLEARLY spelt out in the UN resolution as well. And it makes perfect sense- how can you occupy part of a territory that is not your own, claim that it 'would be yours if there is a referendum' and then say the referendum must only take part in the part of the territory you are not currently occupying ?

Remember- Pakistan's claim isn't just PoK. It is entire Kashmir. So referendum has to take place in entire Kashmir, under Indian control, so as the legal sovereign can rightfully represent its position in the referendum. By definition of 'occupation', India cannot exercise its legally valid right to fair representation in the referendum, for the parts that is under hostile foreign control.

This is why UN has clearly asked Pakistan to butt-out and as soon as Pakistan butts out, India is allowed to keep a token force in Kashmir (for sovereign defence, obviously- because until referendum, all of Kashmir is sovereign Indian land) and then conduct referendum.

Pakistan is the one who has decisively failed to be in accord of the UN resolution regarding Kashmir and has no case. India is the one who has built a 70 year history of compliance with the UN resolution regarding Kashmir. Mind you, its not hard for India to be in compliance since Pakistan is the occupying force. They are not obligated to do jack till their land is back under their control.


Pakistan would have a valid case, if it did indeed butt out of Kashmir and India said 'we changed our minds, no referendum'. But step 1 is a clear-cut instruction from Pakistan to butt out. Nothing happens till then. This is very clearly outlined in the UN resolution- that Pakistan is in violation of.


These are the simple facts, that seem to escape most Pakistanis and they tend to think this is somehow 'unfair' or 'propaganda'.

So yes, Kashmir is 100% Pakistan's fault, from a legal perspective.

 

[Subaltern]

PS: If someone wants to do 'what about China' in this thread, atleast China has *some* leg to stand on (even though most courts will rule likey against them, its a judgement call at best): China does not *claim* Kashmir or Ladakh, they simply state 'you got the borders wrong/Tibet had no ultimate sovereign authority to negotiate border with India/we disagree where the border is'. Ie, it is not a status dispute of Kashmir, but a border dispute. China's position is 'Aksai Chin is part of Tibet according to us, we never agreed it is separated from Tibet, like we did with Ladakh' .

But Pakistan accepts the territorial integrity of Princely state of Kashmir. It doesn't claim/can't claim that Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir was not sovereign over Gilgit-Baltitstan, that it is 'part of Punjab province of India/Afghanistan that should've gone to Pakistan, Kashmir is in error, border dispute, etc etc'.

So there is no leg for Pakistan to stand on legally. International community recognizes this.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

India ka Shahid Masood/Ahmed Qureshi/Mubashar Luqman/Moeed Mirzada/Arif Bhatti/Sabir Shakkir/Arshad Sharif.


Dono mulq iss mein chattay battay hein aik dusray k.

 

[PakLFC]

If Pak is financing the problems in IoK then Bharat is also doing the same in Baluchistan and FATA. That is why it is so interested in Afghanistan. I will not say Pak is not financing the uprising in IoK as I simply don't know, what I will say is that the people there do not want to live with India and are not interested in talks.

Arnab only ever had the guts to mostly invite apologetic Pakistanis to his programme. I would have loved to see him take on a Zaid Hamid, Sheikh Rashid or Shahid Lateef if he was that brave. Purvez Musharraf shut him up many times. He was just a RAW stooge doing exactly what he was told without ever using his own mind.

 

[Subaltern]

If Pak is financing the problems in IoK then Bharat is also doing the same in Baluchistan and FATA. That is why it is so interested in Afghanistan. I will not say Pak is not financing the uprising in IoK as I simply don't know, what I will say is that the people there do not want to live with India and are not interested in talks.

Arnab only ever had the guts to mostly invite apologetic Pakistanis to his programme. I would have loved to see him take on a Zaid Hamid, Sheikh Rashid or Shahid Lateef if he was that brave. Purvez Musharraf shut him up many times. He was just a RAW stooge doing exactly what he was told without ever using his own mind.

There is no 'if' in the case of PAK. It is well known. Even CIA admits it. But there is an 'if' in India's case, because unlike neutral agencies admitting PAK's role in Kashmir, no neutral agency has decisively accepted India's involvement in Baluchistan. However, i hope it is true. Its about frigging time- PAK has about a 30-35 year head start in messing in Kashmir. About time we paid them back in the same coin, since Pak has made it clear it won't follow UN resolution and India isn't willing to go to war over petty-stone throwers who live on government money more than any other Indian state (yes, Kashmir is the most socially subsidized, i.e., government subsidies discounting army, in the entire Indian union).

People are being paid to throw stones by the PAK agents. Independent news have confirmed this (Ie, British media, not Indian media). So nothing more than '30 million dollars a year war-chest for Indian Kashmir' results from PAK.
If Kashmiris truly wanted independence, Indian Kashmir would be such a peaceful and nice part of India till late 80s. I am old enough to've gone to Kashmir back when Kashmir was a 'super-popular hill station and Kashmiriyat took pride in hosting tourists'. Then Pak-financed Intifadaa happened, unemployed Islamic extremists evicted the Pandits from the valley and the entire region has been a PAK-sponsored basket-case.

The 'tragedy' of Kashmir, that Pakistanis do not realize, is that they are the drivers for it. India is *NOT* going to go out of its way forever to try and accommodate Kashmiris, who are taking Pak money and creating nuisance. And until Pak vacates PoK, India will never, ever, under any circumstance, allow an independence movement in Kashmir. Pakistanis think 'we kicked out the British, so Kashmiris can portray Indians like the British and kick them out too'. And that is where Pakistanis fail to see, 30% of Kashmir is 100% with us.

Nobody has aukad to throw stones in Jammu. Or Leh. Nobody is, either.

If Pak *ACTUALLY* cared about Kashmir, they'd of PoK and throw the ball firmly back into India's court- show they are in compliance with UN resolution and now India is the bad guy for not having a referendum.

But no, Pak is under the illusion that if it creates a 'poisoned chalice for India' situation, India will cut off the poisoned part and Pak will have it. Pak doesn't realize that India can 'afford to absorb the manpower and financial cost' of Pak interference, given the disparities in India's overall demographics and financial clout.

 

[Bewal Express]

Humiliation for Ind propaganda.

 

[big_gamer007]

What I never understood even after being humiliated by Arnab day in and day out the same Pakistani guests keep coming back to the new channel... Why bother coming on his show when you knew he wouldn't let you speak and would keep showing your country and army in bad light..

 

[Lonewarrior]

There is a strong possibility (though not proven) that Pakistan is financing the crisis in Kashmir.

However, there is no disputing the FACT that Pakistan is to blame for the Kashmir problem. I am surprised how many Pakistanis do not understand simple legal facts. Even if India is oppressing the Kashmiris, it still does not change the fact that Kashmir's de-facto bifurcated status is completely the fault of Pakistan.

Here are a few legal facts from international legalism:
A) When a recognized sovereign of nation A accedes to nation B, provided it is in the power of the sovereign and nation B accepts, it is legally binding and valid. Period.

Pakistan used this very same mechanism to absorb Khanate of Qalat in March 27, 1948. Nobody challenges that, nobody argues it is 'illegal'. But Pakistan exposes its legally inconsistent and untenable position that Kashmir is 'disputed'. It is not. It is, legally Indian territory.

b) Pakistan's claim to Kashmir stems from the assumption that 'Indian Kashmiris, if given a choice, would vote in a referendum to become part of Pakistan'. Well, maybe. Probably. But it is still an assumption. We won't know for sure until we actually have a referendum.
And the UN as well as India makes its stance clear on referendum : Pakistan *MUST* vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK), so that the legal sovereign can exercise effective control and conduct referendum, thus representing its legal interest fairly.
This is CLEARLY spelt out in the UN resolution as well. And it makes perfect sense- how can you occupy part of a territory that is not your own, claim that it 'would be yours if there is a referendum' and then say the referendum must only take part in the part of the territory you are not currently occupying ?

Remember- Pakistan's claim isn't just PoK. It is entire Kashmir. So referendum has to take place in entire Kashmir, under Indian control, so as the legal sovereign can rightfully represent its position in the referendum. By definition of 'occupation', India cannot exercise its legally valid right to fair representation in the referendum, for the parts that is under hostile foreign control.

This is why UN has clearly asked Pakistan to butt-out and as soon as Pakistan butts out, India is allowed to keep a token force in Kashmir (for sovereign defence, obviously- because until referendum, all of Kashmir is sovereign Indian land) and then conduct referendum.

Pakistan is the one who has decisively failed to be in accord of the UN resolution regarding Kashmir and has no case. India is the one who has built a 70 year history of compliance with the UN resolution regarding Kashmir. Mind you, its not hard for India to be in compliance since Pakistan is the occupying force. They are not obligated to do jack till their land is back under their control.


Pakistan would have a valid case, if it did indeed butt out of Kashmir and India said 'we changed our minds, no referendum'. But step 1 is a clear-cut instruction from Pakistan to butt out. Nothing happens till then. This is very clearly outlined in the UN resolution- that Pakistan is in violation of.


These are the simple facts, that seem to escape most Pakistanis and they tend to think this is somehow 'unfair' or 'propaganda'.

So yes, Kashmir is 100% Pakistan's fault, from a legal perspective.

PS: If someone wants to do 'what about China' in this thread, atleast China has *some* leg to stand on (even though most courts will rule likey against them, its a judgement call at best): China does not *claim* Kashmir or Ladakh, they simply state 'you got the borders wrong/Tibet had no ultimate sovereign authority to negotiate border with India/we disagree where the border is'. Ie, it is not a status dispute of Kashmir, but a border dispute. China's position is 'Aksai Chin is part of Tibet according to us, we never agreed it is separated from Tibet, like we did with Ladakh' .

But Pakistan accepts the territorial integrity of Princely state of Kashmir. It doesn't claim/can't claim that Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir was not sovereign over Gilgit-Baltitstan, that it is 'part of Punjab province of India/Afghanistan that should've gone to Pakistan, Kashmir is in error, border dispute, etc etc'.

So there is no leg for Pakistan to stand on legally. International community recognizes this.

There is no 'if' in the case of PAK. It is well known. Even CIA admits it. But there is an 'if' in India's case, because unlike neutral agencies admitting PAK's role in Kashmir, no neutral agency has decisively accepted India's involvement in Baluchistan. However, i hope it is true. Its about frigging time- PAK has about a 30-35 year head start in messing in Kashmir. About time we paid them back in the same coin, since Pak has made it clear it won't follow UN resolution and India isn't willing to go to war over petty-stone throwers who live on government money more than any other Indian state (yes, Kashmir is the most socially subsidized, i.e., government subsidies discounting army, in the entire Indian union).

People are being paid to throw stones by the PAK agents. Independent news have confirmed this (Ie, British media, not Indian media). So nothing more than '30 million dollars a year war-chest for Indian Kashmir' results from PAK.
If Kashmiris truly wanted independence, Indian Kashmir would be such a peaceful and nice part of India till late 80s. I am old enough to've gone to Kashmir back when Kashmir was a 'super-popular hill station and Kashmiriyat took pride in hosting tourists'. Then Pak-financed Intifadaa happened, unemployed Islamic extremists evicted the Pandits from the valley and the entire region has been a PAK-sponsored basket-case.

The 'tragedy' of Kashmir, that Pakistanis do not realize, is that they are the drivers for it. India is *NOT* going to go out of its way forever to try and accommodate Kashmiris, who are taking Pak money and creating nuisance. And until Pak vacates PoK, India will never, ever, under any circumstance, allow an independence movement in Kashmir. Pakistanis think 'we kicked out the British, so Kashmiris can portray Indians like the British and kick them out too'. And that is where Pakistanis fail to see, 30% of Kashmir is 100% with us.

Nobody has aukad to throw stones in Jammu. Or Leh. Nobody is, either.

If Pak *ACTUALLY* cared about Kashmir, they'd of PoK and throw the ball firmly back into India's court- show they are in compliance with UN resolution and now India is the bad guy for not having a referendum.

But no, Pak is under the illusion that if it creates a 'poisoned chalice for India' situation, India will cut off the poisoned part and Pak will have it. Pak doesn't realize that India can 'afford to absorb the manpower and financial cost' of Pak interference, given the disparities in India's overall demographics and financial clout.

no matter what ...
we will keep giving the kashmiris our moral support ....
and you cant do anything about it ....

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

There is a strong possibility (though not proven) that Pakistan is financing the crisis in Kashmir.

However, there is no disputing the FACT that Pakistan is to blame for the Kashmir problem. I am surprised how many Pakistanis do not understand simple legal facts. Even if India is oppressing the Kashmiris, it still does not change the fact that Kashmir's de-facto bifurcated status is completely the fault of Pakistan.

Off course Pakistan is financing it, but thats not whats causing the issues. An uprising doesnt go on for decades without underlying factors. If it was so easy the Khalistan movment would still be in full swing, its not as if Pakistan wasnt helpling them.

 

[Subaltern]

Off course Pakistan is financing it, but thats not whats causing the issues. An uprising doesnt go on for decades without underlying factors. If it was so easy the Khalistan movment would still be in full swing, its not as if Pakistan wasnt helpling them.

Uprisings can be funded for decades. If Kashmiris always wanted independence, it wouldn't be a paradise on earth from 1948-1987. I am old enough to've gone to Kashmir as a tourist in the early 80s, no security forces, nice and friendly locals, excellent experience of famed 'Kashmiriyat' etc. Not the MO of people being opressed and wanting independence.

The underlying phenomena that Pakistan is exploiting, is high unemployment rates in Kashmir. Which is also indirectly Pakistan's fault, because no business is going to set up shop in an area where infiltration, war and regular lobbing of shells is going on.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Uprisings can be funded for decades. If Kashmiris always wanted independence, it wouldn't be a paradise on earth from 1948-1987. I am old enough to've gone to Kashmir as a tourist in the early 80s, no security forces, nice and friendly locals, excellent experience of famed 'Kashmiriyat' etc. Not the MO of people being opressed and wanting independence.

The underlying phenomena that Pakistan is exploiting, is high unemployment rates in Kashmir. Which is also indirectly Pakistan's fault, because no business is going to set up shop in an area where infiltration, war and regular lobbing of shells is going on.

study any insurgency in the world, its underlying domestic issues that cause it. your excuse of bussiness is insane, its not like Pakistan is shelling Srinagar on a daily bases.

A normal person only picks up a gun or goes out to throw stones every day if they are desperate and disanfranchised . Its the same reason why Inusrgency will exist balochistan regardless of Indian influence untill Pakistan adresses economic and ethnic needs.

 

[Poutine]

What I never understood even after being humiliated by Arnab day in and day out the same Pakistani guests keep coming back to the new channel... Why bother coming on his show when you knew he wouldn't let you speak and would keep showing your country and army in bad light..

Good point, I watched a couple of clips and that guy doesn't let his guest even complete one sentence. Is he like that with all his guest or just the ones from Pakistan?

 

[90MPH]

study any insurgency in the world, its underlying domestic issues that cause it. your excuse of bussiness is insane, its not like Pakistan is shelling Srinagar on a daily bases.

A normal person only picks up a gun or goes out to throw stones every day if they are desperate and disanfranchised . Its the same reason why Inusrgency will exist balochistan regardless of Indian influence untill Pakistan adresses economic and ethnic needs.

It's completely hopeless and pointless debating with someone who blames everything on Pakistan.

 

[Subaltern]

It's completely hopeless and pointless debating with someone who blames everything on Pakistan.

No, it is completely hopeless because Pakistan has no leg to stand on and Pakistanis therefore have no basis to defend their so-called claims. Its completely hopeless because Pakistanis chose to believe their manufactured propaganda than international legal procedure and accepted legal positions.

Your master, China, however, pays great heed to international legal procedure, since so many of their territorial claims are based on the exact same laws governing accession. That is why, even People's Republic of China signed the UNSC resolution regarding Kashmir, recognizing Rep. of India as the sovereign and Pakistan as the invader.

 

[Subaltern]

Listen, I never said the word racist. Stop making things up just like your jingnostic nasty Indian media. I actually said be careful on your generalisations - understand ??

You said All Pakistanis. So admit your mistake.

Ok. All Pakistanis can't demonstrate any legal position over Kashmir, just like all Indians cannot demonstrate any legal position over Qalat. Happy ?

LOL to 'making up'. You want official UN documents that show India is the legal sovereign, the UNSC asked Pakistan to butt out and India to control all Kashmir before referendum ? Or is the official UN documents from 1948 also 'made up' ??

When capitalist USA and commie China sign the same document, what does that tell you ?

 

[Subaltern]

study any insurgency in the world, its underlying domestic issues that cause it. your excuse of bussiness is insane, its not like Pakistan is shelling Srinagar on a daily bases.

A normal person only picks up a gun or goes out to throw stones every day if they are desperate and disanfranchised . Its the same reason why Inusrgency will exist balochistan regardless of Indian influence untill Pakistan adresses economic and ethnic needs.

All insurgencies do not have the same root. Some have oppression components to it, some have illegal invasion component, despite subsidies to the invaded people. Look at East Timor. Indonesia occupied it, poured money into it and they still wanted independence, because it was illegal occupation.

A normal person will pick up a gun or rocks or whatever, if they are jobless and you pay them to do it. Especially in a country that has no social security cheques handed out.

The point is simple- Pakistani occupation of Kashmir have given Republic of India an 'out' to any potential Kashmiri independence demands. We can point to the UNSC resolution and say 'have your independence if we can have referendum. We can have referendum when Pakistan leaves PoK'. Every court in the world will uphold it, so there is no end-game to Kashmir without Pakistan doing what the UNSC asks.


Between 1989 and now, somewhere between 20,000-80,000 Kashmiri civilians have died. Yet nobody in the world is supporting Kashmiri independence except Pakistan. Why ? Because independence procedure has already been spelt out and Pakistan is the one in violation of it.

No other country has such a convenient legal position to deny independence movement. So, thank you, Pakistan.

And in 10 years or so, we will change the ground realities of Kashmir, altering its demographics. Then, the situation will be permanently solved and we will have 'Kashmiris' clamouring for PoK to be returned. THAT is the only fesable endgame.

 

[big_gamer007]

Good point, I watched a couple of clips and that guy doesn't let his guest even complete one sentence. Is he like that with all his guest or just the ones from Pakistan?

He's the same with everyone, the only guests who get a little time to speak are the ones who actually say the same things as Arnab.. anyone who doesn't agree with him gets cut off

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

All insurgencies do not have the same root. Some have oppression components to it, some have illegal invasion component, despite subsidies to the invaded people. Look at East Timor

I think you misunderstand by what i mean by domestic reasons, I am talking about issues that are between the populace and rulers, a country can not ferment an insurgency purely by throwing money at it.

Your point of international support for Kashmir is just ridiculous, most foreign nations don't get involved in such issues unless they have interests in it. India is going to be an economic superpower, why would anyone want Kashmir to get in the way of a fruitful relationship?

Similarly look at FARC, how many Nations supported their independence despite those that had direct benefits from it like Venezuela? Mandela engaged in the insurgency in South Africa, western nations called him a terrorist, Cuba supported him as they did with Angola. Was that wrong as a majority of the international community didn't support it?

Tibet is still promoted as a cause by many academics, but in practice how many western nations actually give a damn about it? None want to anger China. In that same vein, the Muslim world is silent with happens with the Uighurs in China?

Now you are right in that some people can be paid off who are jobless, but a mass civil disobedience cannot be sustained threw the decades, recent elections in Indian Kashmir had a 4% turnout according to the BBC, did Pakistan manufacture that ?

In short you are mistaken Resolution 47 and you will continue to be mistaken one everything if you paint this as one sided. Keep in mind that India refused to give details for its troop drawdown like Pakistan would so they could synchronise it. Further, it was India that rejected arbitration after mediation failed, you can't claim support for the international community if you cant trust it to make a decision. Now I admit Pakistan was overzealous for pushing for a deployment of local militia as an Azad Force, but that matter could have been arbitrated on and wasn't necessarily against the resolution.
Now I will respond to you in more denial soon, but its 8 am and i need to go to work soon

As with all conflicts though there is fault on both sides

 

[Poutine]

He's the same with everyone, the only guests who get a little time to speak are the ones who actually say the same things as Arnab.. anyone who doesn't agree with him gets cut off

Isn't he the highest paid and the most popular journalist in India? Its sad that someone who just basically yells at the guest gets so much support. I guess the majority agree with his viewpoints.

 

[PakLFC]

There is no 'if' in the case of PAK. It is well known. Even CIA admits it. But there is an 'if' in India's case, because unlike neutral agencies admitting PAK's role in Kashmir, no neutral agency has decisively accepted India's involvement in Baluchistan. However, i hope it is true. Its about frigging time- PAK has about a 30-35 year head start in messing in Kashmir. About time we paid them back in the same coin, since Pak has made it clear it won't follow UN resolution and India isn't willing to go to war over petty-stone throwers who live on government money more than any other Indian state (yes, Kashmir is the most socially subsidized, i.e., government subsidies discounting army, in the entire Indian union).

People are being paid to throw stones by the PAK agents. Independent news have confirmed this (Ie, British media, not Indian media). So nothing more than '30 million dollars a year war-chest for Indian Kashmir' results from PAK.
If Kashmiris truly wanted independence, Indian Kashmir would be such a peaceful and nice part of India till late 80s. I am old enough to've gone to Kashmir back when Kashmir was a 'super-popular hill station and Kashmiriyat took pride in hosting tourists'. Then Pak-financed Intifadaa happened, unemployed Islamic extremists evicted the Pandits from the valley and the entire region has been a PAK-sponsored basket-case.

The 'tragedy' of Kashmir, that Pakistanis do not realize, is that they are the drivers for it. India is *NOT* going to go out of its way forever to try and accommodate Kashmiris, who are taking Pak money and creating nuisance. And until Pak vacates PoK, India will never, ever, under any circumstance, allow an independence movement in Kashmir. Pakistanis think 'we kicked out the British, so Kashmiris can portray Indians like the British and kick them out too'. And that is where Pakistanis fail to see, 30% of Kashmir is 100% with us.

Nobody has aukad to throw stones in Jammu. Or Leh. Nobody is, either.

If Pak *ACTUALLY* cared about Kashmir, they'd of PoK and throw the ball firmly back into India's court- show they are in compliance with UN resolution and now India is the bad guy for not having a referendum.

But no, Pak is under the illusion that if it creates a 'poisoned chalice for India' situation, India will cut off the poisoned part and Pak will have it. Pak doesn't realize that India can 'afford to absorb the manpower and financial cost' of Pak interference, given the disparities in India's overall demographics and financial clout.

Don't be silly saying Kashmiris are being paid by Pak for throwing stones. They could easily tell Pak to get lost if they loved being with India I mean you can't buy something that is not for sale. I am not even saying that they will vote for a merger with Pak but no way will they vote to remain with India and you know it. No civilian would put their life on the line like they do neither has Pak that much money that it can sponsor millions of Kashmiris.

Rather as Arundhati Roy says that Bharat is just in complete denial of realities on the ground thinking it can forever bully a people in to submission by killing and blinding them that the whole world is seeing. When they resist the easiest thing for Bharat to do is blame Pakistan, we have become immune to such things now. I think Pak would consider vacating AJK if Bharat agrees to do the same thing, in fact Pak has already even suggesting this as a possibility. The problem is that a lying country like Bharat can never be trusted to do what is right, if we were to vacate AJK you would for sure invade the next morning. You see we simply don't trust you! India media independent!!!!? The American media has reported that everything happening in IoK is India and India's fault alone, it is your soldiers killing innocents so keep you bllood stained hands to yourself! I don't see these gals being sponsored by Pak!
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/kash...-the-streets-1687581?pfrom=home-lateststories

Let m e tell you mutual agencies have also said of Indian involvement in Baluchistan and FATA that are not even disputed but settled area's. Even if Pak is involved in IoK we have never accepted it is being a part of India so have every right to fight for it. If the UN cares so much than why don't you give them access to IoK so that they can come and ask people themselves! No, you don't have the guts to to that. "Nobody has aukad to throw stones in Jammu. Or Leh. Nobody is, either" What does that mean in English??

You can blame Pak until the end of time that males no difference. Only fact is that it has always been an outstanding issue since 1989 that has gained momentum to the degree that it is now hotter then hell!

 

[Subaltern]

I think you misunderstand by what i mean by domestic reasons, I am talking about issues that are between the populace and rulers, a country can not ferment an insurgency purely by throwing money at it.

Yes. And i acknowleged that. The 'domestic reason' is most of Kashmir is on dole and it has some of the highest unemployment in India. That is the underlying cause.

Your point of international support for Kashmir is just ridiculous, most foreign nations don't get involved in such issues unless they have interests in it. India is going to be an economic superpower, why would anyone want Kashmir to get in the way of a fruitful relationship?

International LEGAL support is not ridiculous, that is pretty much the only thing that matters for sovereign right issues. And on determination of Kashmir's sovereign rights, the UNSC has already ruled, India has accepted the ruling. Pakistan is the one in violation of it. That is basic legal fact, not 'international pressure or bullying'.

How the heck will we bully the US ? US acknowledges, by signing the document,that political solution to Kashmir begins with Pakistan leaving. That is a simple, binding, legal commitment.

Similarly look at FARC, how many Nations supported their independence despite those that had direct benefits from it like Venezuela? Mandela engaged in the insurgency in South Africa, western nations called him a terrorist, Cuba supported him as they did with Angola. Was that wrong as a majority of the international community didn't support it?

1. Mandela is irrelevant. It is not the same legal issue. Ie, not a question of sovereign rights.
2. FARC had not engaged in any legally accepted sovereign rights procedure. Hence not accepted.

Tibet is still promoted as a cause by many academics, but in practice how many western nations actually give a damn about it? None want to anger China. In that same vein, the Muslim world is silent with happens with the Uighurs in China?

Again, different legal questions. Question of Tibet != Question of Kashmir. Unlike Kashmir, China's de-jure control of Tibet is internationally recognized. It simply comes down to ethics of conflict between 100s of years of de-jure right while not having de-facto rights.

In Kashmir, India has de-facto rights in most of it, while it has de-jure rights over all of it.

Politics won't get anywhere without legal backing. We have legal backing.

In short you are mistaken Resolution 47 and you will continue to be mistaken one everything if you paint this as one sided. -

Ok. Then do what no Pakistani has been able to do in 70 years and demonstrate how we are wrong about Resolution 47, when we claim first step is Pakistan leave PoK before there is any resolution, which is EXACTLY what the resolution says and ensures #1 is the first step in step #2.

 

[Subaltern]

Don't be silly saying Kashmiris are being paid by Pak for throwing stones. They could easily tell Pak to get lost if they loved being with India I mean you can't buy something that is not for sale. I am not even saying that they will vote for a merger with Pak but no way will they vote to remain with India and you know it. No civilian would put their life on the line like they do neither has Pak that much money that it can sponsor millions of Kashmiris.

I would much rather believe UK media on India-Pakistan than a Pakistani. Nothing against Pakistanis, but that is basic neutral-party procedure.

Rather as Arundhati Roy says that Bharat is just in complete denial of realities on the ground thinking it can forever bully a people in to submission by killing and blinding them that the whole world is seeing.

Whole world is seeing and doing nothing, because Bharat is in the legal right for a non-violent solution. Pakistan is just hoping Kashmiri suffering would create a military defeat for India in Kashmir or world idignation. Neither is happening or will happen.

When they resist the easiest thing for Bharat to do is blame Pakistan, we have become immune to such things now.

We blame you, because the law is pretty damn clear on this. Your immunity is a defence mechanism of denial, hence none of you will ever demonstrate a counter to UNSC resolution step #1.

I think Pak would consider vacating AJK if Bharat agrees to do the same thing,

Sorry, not negotiation. We both agreed to seek UNSC resolution. Thats what the resolution states. Legal verdicts are non-negotiable.

in fact Pak has already even suggesting this as a possibility. The problem is that a lying country like Bharat can never be trusted to do what is right, if we were to vacate AJK you would for sure invade the next morning.

yes, we will comply with step #2. Which says we are allowed to post soldiers in all parts of Kashmir at a minimum law and order level.
Thats not invasion, thats compliance with the verdict step #2. Again, very clearly spelt out by UNSC.
UNSC will also be there with Bharat, so don't worry. It just doesn't allow YOU GUYS to be there.

You see we simply don't trust you! India media independent!!!!?

Law doesn't care if you trust the plaintiff or not. Law requires you to comply with verdict. Verdict has been rendered. Pretty simple, again.

The American media has reported that everything happening in IoK is India and India's fault alone,

It may be India's fault. But the non-military solution starts with Pakistan leaving.
So thank you for letting us stay in Kashmir forever, till you guys leave first !

it is your soldiers killing innocents so keep you bllood stained hands to yourself! I don't see these gals being sponsored by Pak!
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/kash...-the-streets-1687581?pfrom=home-lateststories

No denial from me. Pretty deplorable actions. But if you got to make omelettes, you got to break eggs. India is a 3rd world country. A general insurgency & terrorism will obviously have a lot of collateral damage, as in any 3rd world country.

Let m e tell you mutual agencies have also said of Indian involvement in Baluchistan and FATA that are not even disputed but settled area's. Even if Pak is involved in IoK we have never accepted it is being a part of India so have every right to fight for it. If the UN cares so much than why don't you give them access to IoK so that they can come and ask people themselves! No, you don't have the guts to to that. "Nobody has aukad to throw stones in Jammu. Or Leh. Nobody is, either" What does that mean in English??

Nobody cares what intelligence agencies say. International law cares what countries say. Pakistanis are so dominated by ISI that they don't realize that ISI's word may be 100% true, but it carries 0% weight. Same in other countries. CIA can say whatever it wants, until it becomes the OFFICIAL POSITION OF USA GOVERNMENT', it doesn't matter in international law.

Which is why i said, for now, nobody officially recognizes Indian meddling in Baluchistan.

You can blame Pak until the end of time that males no difference. Only fact is that it has always been an outstanding issue since 1989 that has gained momentum to the degree that it is now hotter then hell!

It makes no difference to you guys. We know that. But it makes a difference to the world, which is why none of your military allies, some stronger than India by a humongous margin, has ever officially declared Kashmir as part of Pakistan.

We don't care about making a difference to you guys. We care about making a difference to 1.2 billion Indians. Coz then article 370 is gone and we will 'Xinjiang' Kashmir.
And there is NOTHING you can do about it, once India has political will enough to change 370. That, is our end goal. And that, is the only viable solution if Pakistan cannot comply with legal solution and either side cannot force/care to force a military solution.

Just be aware, until you guys can defeat us in battle or comply with UNSC resolution, Kashmir will not go in your favour. Period.

 

[PakLFC]

[MENTION=143451]Subaltern[/MENTION]

I don't believe in any media blindly even the Pak one. I do my own research then draw conclusions so don't care who says what. You have leaders and then there are followers as well but pictures seldom lie. The whole world is not doing anything because first it is a Muslim issue and secondly there is just to much else going on. By the whole world you mean the west in particular, I don't expect any help from them seeing how many Muslim's they have killed in various countries.

No negotiations then keep picking up the dead bodies of your soldiers, water off our backs. Don't cry if we sponsor freedom fighters over something we have never accepted as being yours. Also keep your fake ancient agreements to yourself as well.

If no one cares what agencies say then don't give me this crap of what some newspaper or internet story says. You gotta understand that you can not kill the will off Pakistanis or Kashmiris for that matter. We will not rest until we take back what is rightfully ours. If you ain't gonna vacate IoK then don't expect us to be angels either. Read what your Nehru said about Kashmir and come to the table otherwise be ready for more violence.

I think China and Turkey have always sided with Pak on the Kashmir issue not that the Indian media will report that in your country. We don't expect them to fight for us if that is what you mean, doesn't work that way. See we will force Kashmir off you like we did Pakistan, ask your ancestors how we did that not giving a damn of any law or paper. There is plenty we can do about it and we are already like giving our side off the story to the world. True that we can do a lot more as well when it comes to media work but the problem is our PM is pro India. We need to get rid off him.

I feel justice in Kashmir is very near now when you will again be forced to lick your wounds. By that I mean within the next decade so hang around, don't go very far. "No denial from me" on school gals pelting your soldiers with stones so why then blame Pak like you did in your previous mail? I think you are confused. Rest I have already answered.

 

[Citizen4]

[MENTION=143451]Subaltern[/MENTION]

I don't believe in any media blindly even the Pak one. I do my own research then draw conclusions so don't care who says what. You have leaders and then there are followers as well but pictures seldom lie. The whole world is not doing anything because first it is a Muslim issue and secondly there is just to much else going on. By the whole world you mean the west in particular, I don't expect any help from them seeing how many Muslim's they have killed in various countries.

No negotiations then keep picking up the dead bodies of your soldiers, water off our backs. Don't cry if we sponsor freedom fighters over something we have never accepted as being yours. Also keep your fake ancient agreements to yourself as well.

If no one cares what agencies say then don't give me this crap of what some newspaper or internet story says. You gotta understand that you can not kill the will off Pakistanis or Kashmiris for that matter. We will not rest until we take back what is rightfully ours. If you ain't gonna vacate IoK then don't expect us to be angels either. Read what your Nehru said about Kashmir and come to the table otherwise be ready for more violence.

I think China and Turkey have always sided with Pak on the Kashmir issue not that the Indian media will report that in your country. We don't expect them to fight for us if that is what you mean, doesn't work that way. See we will force Kashmir off you like we did Pakistan, ask your ancestors how we did that not giving a damn of any law or paper. There is plenty we can do about it and we are already like giving our side off the story to the world. True that we can do a lot more as well when it comes to media work but the problem is our PM is pro India. We need to get rid off him.

I feel justice in Kashmir is very near now when you will again be forced to lick your wounds. By that I mean within the next decade so hang around, don't go very far. "No denial from me" on school gals pelting your soldiers with stones so why then blame Pak like you did in your previous mail? I think you are confused. Rest I have already answered.

Arnab Goswani has probably the worst show on any news channel all over the world, I have watched some of the videos, and believe me that guy is something else, he dont let anyone with opposing views speak, words come out of his mouth like excrement, he shouts most of the time in the show, always talks in an uncivlised way, his show is staight up garbage, full of Hindutva propaganda against Pakistan and Muslims. He dont know how to debate respectfully.

 

[big_gamer007]

Isn't he the highest paid and the most popular journalist in India? Its sad that someone who just basically yells at the guest gets so much support. I guess the majority agree with his viewpoints.

Arnab Goswani has probably the worst show on any news channel all over the world, I have watched some of the videos, and believe me that guy is something else, he dont let anyone with opposing views speak, words come out of his mouth like excrement, he shouts most of the time in the show, always talks in an uncivlised way, his show is staight up garbage, full of Hindutva propaganda against Pakistan and Muslims. He dont know how to debate respectfully.

True he was the highest viewed journalist.. His show wasn't full of hindutva and he is not against Muslims.. He raises all sort of issues and pretty was pretty against every political party and Pakistan but pro people regardless of religion..

 

[boomboomcheema]

He speaks all hot headed in front of the camera and shame on those who go on air on his show to get humiliated again and again.

 

[dildildalwalla]

The Indian mentality in one of pointing the finger and not accepting the atrocities they have cariedo ut. Heck, the nation elected a genocidal maniac as their leader.

WIth regards to Indian broadcasts in the UK, many channels are doing the same thing, I thikn OFCOM should pick up on more of them.

 

[big_gamer007]

He speaks all hot headed in front of the camera and shame on those who go on air on his show to get humiliated again and again.

From Pakistan it's your retired Air Marshals, a General and some armymen.. Not sure why they keep coming back to the show to get humiliated..

Personally I liked Arnab for picking up a lot of issues and being unbiased and showing mistakes of every political party but his main issue is in debates he invites 10-15 people and then doesn't let anyone speak.. You never get to hear the other sides POV..

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Indian mentality in one of pointing the finger and not accepting the atrocities they have cariedo ut. Heck, the nation elected a genocidal maniac as their leader.

WIth regards to Indian broadcasts in the UK, many channels are doing the same thing, I thikn OFCOM should pick up on more of them.

Any court decided that?Or is it your personal judgement?

 

[big_gamer007]

Any court decided that?Or is it your personal judgement?

That's what imbibed in their brains and they keep spewing it online.. It's same as those people who say all Muslims are terrorists online, both these people are same.. Don't bother replying to them..

 

[dildildalwalla]

Any court decided that?Or is it your personal judgement?

There was/is plenty of evidence against him. Why else do you think he was blacklisted by the UK? Until he became PM it was illegal for him to enter the country. The world knows what happens. It would help you as a human being to go and research the information. If you do not wish to do so, stop spreading your ignorance.

 

[Subaltern]

[MENTION=143451]Subaltern[/MENTION]

I don't believe in any media blindly even the Pak one. I do my own research then draw conclusions so don't care who says what. You have leaders and then there are followers as well but pictures seldom lie. The whole world is not doing anything because first it is a Muslim issue and secondly there is just to much else going on. By the whole world you mean the west in particular, I don't expect any help from them seeing how many Muslim's they have killed in various countries.

I don't have time for such narrow-minded nonsense. The 'muslim issue' may be a valid line of thought since 9-11. Before that, especially in the 70s, the western world was pro-muslim and had been since 1940s. Why did your staunch ally USA or China not support your claim to Kashmir in the 50s and 60s, when things were very very friendly ?
Because Pakistan has no legal claim on Kashmir and international relations care about legalese.

No negotiations then keep picking up the dead bodies of your soldiers, water off our backs. Don't cry if we sponsor freedom fighters over something we have never accepted as being yours. Also keep your fake ancient agreements to yourself as well.

No fake agreements, otherwise your accession agreement with Kalat is also fake. Consistency doesn't seem to be a highly stressed value in you. And don't worry, we will pay you back in the same coin. Death by a thousand cuts will hurt your crappy economy and inferior manpower abilities far more than it will to us.

If no one cares what agencies say then don't give me this crap of what some newspaper or internet story says. You gotta understand that you can not kill the will off Pakistanis or Kashmiris for that matter. We will not rest until we take back what is rightfully ours. If you ain't gonna vacate IoK then don't expect us to be angels either. Read what your Nehru said about Kashmir and come to the table otherwise be ready for more violence.

But i am not giving you what some newspapers say. I am giving you OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POSITIONS of various nations. USA, China, UK, etc. officially underwrote the UNSC declaration that step1 to solving Kashmir is for Pakistan to get out of PoK. That is not newspaper article, that is directly referenced from the UN.

I think China and Turkey have always sided with Pak on the Kashmir issue not that the Indian media will report that in your country. We don't expect them to fight for us if that is what you mean, doesn't work that way.

Then show us evidence that China and Turkey accept Pakistan's sovereign claim over Kashmir. Any Chinese/Turkish official government document would do.

See we will force Kashmir off you like we did Pakistan, ask your ancestors how we did that not giving a damn of any law or paper. There is plenty we can do about it and we are already like giving our side off the story to the world. True that we can do a lot more as well when it comes to media work but the problem is our PM is pro India. We need to get rid off him.

All you are doing is exposing the fact that you know 0% about law. You won't force Kashmir off of us like you did with Pakistan, because Pakistan and India's original sovereign (that is British India) agreed to give Paksitan sovereign rights. Kashmir's sovereign gave Kashmir's sovereign rights to India and until India decides to give up Kashmir, like it decieded to give up Pakistan, there will NOT be a legal parallel.

I feel justice in Kashmir is very near now when you will again be forced to lick your wounds. By that I mean within the next decade so hang around, don't go very far. "No denial from me" on school gals pelting your soldiers with stones so why then blame Pak like you did in your previous mail? I think you are confused. Rest I have already answered.

Justice in Kashmir's sovereign question will only come in one of three following way :
a) Pakistan complies with international decree and get out of PoK so referendum can happen
b) Pakistan militarily conquers Indian Kashmir
c) India militarily liberates PoK.

Rest, you can keep dreaming and nothing will change. Because we are not obligated and will not be obligated to give Kashmir any concessions outside of the UNSC resolution that we both (India and Pakistan) sought response from.

 

[Subaltern]

The Indian mentality in one of pointing the finger and not accepting the atrocities they have cariedo ut. Heck, the nation elected a genocidal maniac as their leader.

WIth regards to Indian broadcasts in the UK, many channels are doing the same thing, I thikn OFCOM should pick up on more of them.

No one is justifying Indian atrocities. I am simply pointing out the fact that Kashmir's sovereign question is unresolved because of Pakistan's noncompliance with UNSC resolution. That, is a fact. No-matter how atrocious (or not) our army conduct is, fact remains Kashmir will not be politically addressed till Pakistan complies with UNSC resolution.

 

[maverick85]

PS: If someone wants to do 'what about China' in this thread, atleast China has *some* leg to stand on (even though most courts will rule likey against them, its a judgement call at best): China does not *claim* Kashmir or Ladakh, they simply state 'you got the borders wrong/Tibet had no ultimate sovereign authority to negotiate border with India/we disagree where the border is'. Ie, it is not a status dispute of Kashmir, but a border dispute. China's position is 'Aksai Chin is part of Tibet according to us, we never agreed it is separated from Tibet, like we did with Ladakh' .

But Pakistan accepts the territorial integrity of Princely state of Kashmir. It doesn't claim/can't claim that Maharaja of Jammu & Kashmir was not sovereign over Gilgit-Baltitstan, that it is 'part of Punjab province of India/Afghanistan that should've gone to Pakistan, Kashmir is in error, border dispute, etc etc'.

So there is no leg for Pakistan to stand on legally. International community recognizes this.

The 'princely state of Kashmir' is an artificial state. The legality of the British signing it off to the dogra for a hundred years doesn't really stand mate. And the Indian claim of that land is laughable. Lol at stationing token Indian troops for observing referendum. The foreign Dogra forces got a befitting reply at partition in AJK.

 

[Subaltern]

The 'princely state of Kashmir' is an artificial state. The legality of the British signing it off to the dogra for a hundred years doesn't really stand mate. And the Indian claim of that land is laughable. Lol at stationing token Indian troops for observing referendum. The foreign Dogra forces got a befitting reply at partition in AJK.

Every state then, is an artificial state. British India is the legal parent of Republic of India and Pakistan. That is a fact recognized by India and Paksitan, as both India and Pakistan have followed legal obligations it inherited from British India. British India also recognizes that on August 15th, 1947, Jammu and Kashmir, along with Qalat, Hyderabad, Junagarh, etc. became sovereign states. In case of Qalat and Kashmir, the sovereignty passed from those states to Paksitan and India, respectively.
Those are simple legal facts recognized by the international community.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't have time for such narrow-minded nonsense. The 'muslim issue' may be a valid line of thought since 9-11. Before that, especially in the 70s, the western world was pro-muslim and had been since 1940s. Why did your staunch ally USA or China not support your claim to Kashmir in the 50s and 60s, when things were very very friendly ?
Because Pakistan has no legal claim on Kashmir and international relations care about legalese.



No fake agreements, otherwise your accession agreement with Kalat is also fake. Consistency doesn't seem to be a highly stressed value in you. And don't worry, we will pay you back in the same coin. Death by a thousand cuts will hurt your crappy economy and inferior manpower abilities far more than it will to us.



But i am not giving you what some newspapers say. I am giving you OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POSITIONS of various nations. USA, China, UK, etc. officially underwrote the UNSC declaration that step1 to solving Kashmir is for Pakistan to get out of PoK. That is not newspaper article, that is directly referenced from the UN.



Then show us evidence that China and Turkey accept Pakistan's sovereign claim over Kashmir. Any Chinese/Turkish official government document would do.



All you are doing is exposing the fact that you know 0% about law. You won't force Kashmir off of us like you did with Pakistan, because Pakistan and India's original sovereign (that is British India) agreed to give Paksitan sovereign rights. Kashmir's sovereign gave Kashmir's sovereign rights to India and until India decides to give up Kashmir, like it decieded to give up Pakistan, there will NOT be a legal parallel.



Justice in Kashmir's sovereign question will only come in one of three following way :
a) Pakistan complies with international decree and get out of PoK so referendum can happen
b) Pakistan militarily conquers Indian Kashmir
c) India militarily liberates PoK.

Rest, you can keep dreaming and nothing will change. Because we are not obligated and will not be obligated to give Kashmir any concessions outside of the UNSC resolution that we both (India and Pakistan) sought response from.

There is nothing narrow minded about the Muslim issue for Muslim people. Those without knowledge don't count neither does it matter to us what people like you think. You have no idea of what 9/11 is all about so better to refrain talking about it.

When we took Pakistan from you all rules went out the window when your Gandhi was on his knee's, remember? When we took Pak Kashmir we did not really listen to what outsiders were saying on the matter so if we want to do something we do it. We are dreamers that is how we got Pakistan from you! Ask your forefathers how they said we will never let a Pakistan be created! Just like that we will free Kashmir as well.

You see your idea of consistency is for a Pakistani to tell you how great you are when you are worse then a beggar nation. Consistency is breaking you in to parts then doing Kargil on you whilst listening you moan on the other side. If you support terrorism in Pak then ISI will rip you apart limb by limb! We are not a Sri Lanka or Nepal who you can bully moreover keep you false and flimsy ancient agreements to yourself. The whole world knows what Nehru said on Kashmir that was to give the people whatever they want.

Again I reiterate what Nehru said and how Bharat simply can not be trusted therefore I am afraid vacating Pak Kashmir is beyond a joke! As I have stated unless we do so simultaneously such an option can and will not be considered. We are not going to bleed you by a thousands cuts anymore, I won't disclose here what we will be doing to you that you will witness in time. For that reason I hope Allah gives you a long life so that you can see it happening!

Why would China and Turkey get involved in the Kashmir dispute? By the way there are many reports on what India is doing in the valley that is in response to your "no one cares" post. No country ever fights for the other and why should they? If China went to war against the Americans Pak will not be getting involved either. You know nothing about warfare at all.

I know plenty about law but do not recognise unfair law! Do you see the difference I mean you are on about UN saying this or that when they have not implemented the resolution of Kashmiris deciding their fate in 75 years! As I have said before Pak will not vacate Kashmir until you agree to do thee same, this great law is the same one that the USA bends and twists all the time like attacking Iraq so who gives a damn about what is written on some crappy paper. These international laws are only to suit the west and the UN is just an extension of the USA! Hello! Wake up and smell the coffee before it smells you! British India pal, don't you forget British in it that is very different to independent India.

By the way part of my profession is in the legal field and I know how rules are made and bent by influential people and countries.

 

[Subaltern]

There is nothing narrow minded about the Muslim issue for Muslim people. Those without knowledge don't count neither does it matter to us what people like you think. You have no idea of what 9/11 is all about so better to refrain talking about it.

No it is narrow-minded nonsense, because USA and UK were buddies with most of the muslim world, right up to Iranian revolution of 79 and the enmity between USA and Iraq post 90. Since 9-11 you can say that the west is not pro-muslim, but prior to it, the west was very much pro-muslim. You reap what you sow. When the west practically makes you what you are and then you backstab them, there will be blowback.
And muslims are lucky that the west is civilized, or else there would be no more muslims today, thanks to the fact that the west can snuff out all muslim nations inside of a year if it chose to commit total war.

When we took Pakistan from you all rules went out the window when your Gandhi was on his knee's, remember? When we took Pak Kashmir we did not really listen to what outsiders were saying on the matter so if we want to do something we do it. We are dreamers that is how we got Pakistan from you! Ask your forefathers how they said we will never let a Pakistan be created! Just like that we will free Kashmir as well.

You won't free Kashmir, because you are official occupiers of Kashmir. You didnt take Pakistan from us, you got it from the British.
We know Pakistan isn't smart enough to play by the rules or competent enough. We also know that Pakistan isn't strong enough to do what it wants either. So when you are not smart enough to play by the rules and strong enough to get what you want, you are left with no alternative.
Which is why, Pakistan has accomplished nothing on the kashmir front in 70 years.

You see your idea of consistency is for a Pakistani to tell you how great you are when you are worse then a beggar nation. Consistency is breaking you in to parts then doing Kargil on you whilst listening you moan on the other side. If you support terrorism in Pak then ISI will rip you apart limb by limb! We are not a Sri Lanka or Nepal who you can bully moreover keep you false and flimsy ancient agreements to yourself. The whole world knows what Nehru said on Kashmir that was to give the people whatever they want.

Pakistan isn't strong enough, which is why we cut it in half in 1971 and won every single war against it. Your military power isn't strong enough to match India, history is proof of this. And yes, we will pay you back in the same coin. As the saying goes 'Laton ke bhoot baton se nahi mantey'.

And no, Pakistan isn not Sri Lanka or Nepal. It is the nation that got cut in half and split in two, committed the second biggest surrender in history of mankind because it bit off more than it could chew. But hey, we don't mind. Try attacking us again, we are all for binary division of Pakistan every time it is stupid enough to declare war on us.

Again I reiterate what Nehru said and how Bharat simply can not be trusted therefore I am afraid vacating Pak Kashmir is beyond a joke! As I have stated unless we do so simultaneously such an option can and will not be considered. We are not going to bleed you by a thousands cuts anymore, I won't disclose here what we will be doing to you that you will witness in time. For that reason I hope Allah gives you a long life so that you can see it happening!

Nobody cares what you say. UNSC has spoken and Pakistan is the one in violation of it. That makes Pakistan 100% legally wrong and that is why Pakistan has no leg to stand on.

Why would China and Turkey get involved in the Kashmir dispute? By the way there are many reports on what India is doing in the valley that is in response to your "no one cares" post. No country ever fights for the other and why should they? If China went to war against the Americans Pak will not be getting involved either. You know nothing about warfare at all.

China has already made its stance clear on the UNSC resolution. It too wants Pakistan to butt out. China signed the UNSC declaration for Kashmir.

I know plenty about law but do not recognise unfair law! Do you see the difference I mean you are on about UN saying this or that when they have not implemented the resolution of Kashmiris deciding their fate in 75 years! As I have said before Pak will not vacate Kashmir until you agree to do thee same, this great law is the same one that the USA bends and twists all the time like attacking Iraq so who gives a damn about what is written on some crappy paper. These international laws are only to suit the west and the UN is just an extension of the USA! Hello! Wake up and smell the coffee before it smells you! British India pal, don't you forget British in it that is very different to independent India.

By the way part of my profession is in the legal field and I know how rules are made and bent by influential people and countries.

Don't lie. You know nothing about law or else you wouldn't be making such ignorant statements. UN hasn't implemented resolution on Kashmir because Pakistan is in violation of step 1 of the solution. Any fool can see that you don't know the first thing about sovereign rights legalism. Otherwise you wouldn't have run away from the fact that Kashmir's accession to India is just as legal as Qalat's accession to Pakistan.