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Treatment of Kashmiri Shia Muslims in India

Giannis

Giannis

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/india-kashmir-arrests-1.5703378

Police sealed off parts of Indian Kashmir's main city Srinagar on Friday to stop Shia Muslims from staging processions during their mourning month of Muharram and detained at least 50 attendees, police said.

Citing coronavirus fears, authorities have banned Muharram gatherings where worshippers flog themselves with steel-tipped flails or slash their bodies with knives to mourn the death of Imam Hussein, a grandson of the Prophet Mohammad.

Shia crowds tried to gather in parts of Srinagar, the main city of Indian Kashmir, but some were thwarted by police roadblocks and by officers searching vehicles and others chanting slogans were chased down by police.

"At least 50 mourners were detained in Srinagar who defied the restrictions," a police officer said. Some scuffled with police before they were taken away.

Kashmir is already under heavy security since last year when the federal government revoked its special status and statehood, causing anger in the revolt-torn Muslim majority region.

"There is usually [a] procession on Muharram but they have put a lot of restrictions this year. All the roads are shut near Lal Chowk (Red Square). There are no public transports and shops are also shut. It feels like a curfew," a resident who gave his name as Mohammad said.
Shias protest human rights violations

Police and witnesses said some people taking part in the Muharram processions on the outskirts of Srinagar shouted anti-India slogans earlier in the week.

Protests by Kashmir's 1.4 million Shia Muslims are rare. The 31-year revolt against Indian rule in the territory has been led by Sunni Muslim militants.
Indian police officers detained this Kashmiri Shia Muslim after he attempted with others to carry out a religious procession in Srinagar. (Mukhtar Khan/The Associated Press)

But this year, Shia youths have been vocal about alleged human rights violations by Indian security forces, said senior Shia leader Maulana Masroor Abbas Ansari.

Kashmir valley's police chief Vijay Kumar said two people had been detained for anti-India slogans during the Muharram processions earlier in the week.

"We will book and act against all those people who have taken part in such processions at other places," Kumar said.
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https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/20...-as-kashmir-violence-muharram-procession.html


SRINAGAR, India — Government forces on Saturday fired shotgun pellets and tear gas to disperse hundreds of Shia Muslims participating in a traditional religious procession in the Indian-controlled Kashmir, injuring scores, eyewitnesses said.

An officer at the police control room in the main city of Srinagar said the mourners on the outskirts of the city violated coronavirus prohibitory orders in place that restrict all religious processions and gatherings across the disputed region.

A duty officer said the police were confirming the number of injured.

Medics at one hospital said they treated at least 30 people, some of them with pellet and teargas injuries. Many injured were taken to another hospital.

Videos circulating on social media showed police in armed vehicles warning the mourners, who were beating their chests and reciting elegies to mourn the martyrs of Karbala as part of the Muharram ritual, to disperse before firing shotgun pellets and tear gas on them. Some mourners were also seen raising slogans seeking an end to the Indian rule in the disputed region.

“The procession was not just peaceful but was also following health protocols,” said Sajjad Hussain, an eyewitness. “They (government forces) unleashed such violence and did not spare even women mourners.”

Police broke up several such processions in the region this week.

Officials said at least 200 people were detained in Srinagar this week for participating in Muharram processions and at least seven people were arrested under an anti-terror law for raising pro-freedom slogans.


Some main Muharram processions have been banned in Indian-controlled Kashmir since an armed insurgency broke out in 1989 demanding the region’s independence from India or its merger with neighboring Pakistan.

Such measures are particularly galling to Kashmiri Muslims. They have long complained that the government curbs their religious freedom on the pretext of law and order while promoting and patronizing an annual Hindu pilgrimage to the Himalayan Amarnath Shrine in Kashmir that draws hundreds of thousands of visitors.

Conditions have worsened in Kashmir since August last year, when New Delhi stripped the region of its statehood and semi-autonomy, setting off widespread anger and economic ruin under a harsh security clampdown.
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TW:
india-kashmir-muharram.jpg


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The resident Humsaaya Mulk mob will be here soon for some spin doctoring. In the meantime, here’s a prominent Shia Kashmiri novelist:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My homeland, Kashmir, witnesses a small Karbala everyday. This <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Muharram?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Muharram</a>, India has once again chosen to shoot demonstrators in the eyes, because they’re Kashmiri, because they’re Muslim.</p>— Mirza Waheed (@MirzaWaheed) <a href="https://twitter.com/MirzaWaheed/status/1299733497955995648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Only the most malevolent, the most stone hearted will defend the blinding of young Kashmiris. Predictably, you will find plenty of those in the establishment in India & Kashmir, and, sadly, in the Indian press corps.</p>— Mirza Waheed (@MirzaWaheed) <a href="https://twitter.com/MirzaWaheed/status/1299748102384103424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Kashmiris - whether Sunni, Shia or Atheist are all united behind their Kashmiri ethnic identity. India's colonial tactics of divide and rule won't work on them. They're Kashmiri first, and an Indian identity doesn't exist in their country.
 
Giannis said:
Kashmiris - whether Sunni, Shia or Atheist are all united behind their Kashmiri ethnic identity. India's colonial tactics of divide and rule won't work on them. They're Kashmiri first, and an Indian identity doesn't exist in their country.
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With the exception of Kashmiri Hindus and Sikhs. They consider themselves Indian first Kashmiri second, and they want mass migration of Hindus and Sikhs from rest of India as they dont want to be a minority in Kashmir.

Kashmir Muslims need to understand that "Kashmiriyat" is a myth. There was never a period of Muslim Hindu Bhai Bhai in Kashmir. When Muslims had power Hindus suffered, and when Hindus/Sikhs had power Muslims suffered.
 
I hope things will get better in Kashmir. It is ridiculous what they are going through.
 
Gharib Aadmi said:
With the exception of Kashmiri Hindus and Sikhs. They consider themselves Indian first Kashmiri second, and they want mass migration of Hindus and Sikhs from rest of India as they dont want to be a minority in Kashmir.

Kashmir Muslims need to understand that "Kashmiriyat" is a myth. There was never a period of Muslim Hindu Bhai Bhai in Kashmir. When Muslims had power Hindus suffered, and when Hindus/Sikhs had power Muslims suffered.
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That is sad to know. All Kashmiris irrespective of their religious identity, should remain united in their plight for justice and freedom.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a>: A Kashmiri Shiite Muslim youth lies on a hospital bed with pellets injures fired by the government forces today during Muharram procession in Srinagar. <a href="https://t.co/6BEVwh9B59">pic.twitter.com/6BEVwh9B59</a></p>— Ahmer Khan (@ahmermkhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/ahmermkhan/status/1299706010811215872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
This is tragic for the Kashmiri people. The Indian authorities know when Ashura is and could have planned for it to allow some sort of limited event.

Just like Eid took place around the world but in a different way than what is normal.

You can't deny people their religious practices. Shameful and horrendous.
 
Muhurram procession was banned all over India, except Maharashtra where court gave conditional permission.

Nothing to do with Kashmir.
 
Local.Dada said:
Random Twitter accounts and websites called Kashnirwallah and free press Kashmir, finally I found some neutral perspective in the times of either right leaning or left leaning websites.

Great find there
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The first two links are literally from the CBC and the New York Times, I guess you get your comprehension skills from some IIT or whatever they call those public schools in india.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Muhurram procession was banned all over India, except Maharashtra where court gave conditional permission.

Nothing to do with Kashmir.
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Indian forces torturing and arresting Shias in Kashmir exclusively happened in Kashmir.
 
Giannis said:
Kashmiris - whether Sunni, Shia or Atheist are all united behind their Kashmiri ethnic identity. India's colonial tactics of divide and rule won't work on them. They're Kashmiri first, and an Indian identity doesn't exist in their country.
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Yet the shia majority ladakh has hardly any terrorist separatist movement.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Yet the shia majority ladakh has hardly any terrorist separatist movement.
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:facepalm:

Because Kashmiri Shias are ethnically Kashmiri, they're part of the Kashmiri nation. Ladakhis belong to different ethnic groups and even then they're more neutral rather than pro-India.
 
Government forces have fired shotgun pellets and tear gas to disperse hundreds of mainly Shia Muslims participating in a Muharram procession in Indian-administered Kashmir, injuring dozens, witnesses have said.

The violence came as the disputed Himalayan region - where nearly 97 percent of residents are Muslims - observed Ashoura on Saturday, the 10th day of the Muharram month in the Islamic lunar calendar.

Jafar Ali, a witness, told AFP news agency the procession started in the Bemina area on the outskirts of the main city of Srinagar and that government forces were present in heavy numbers.

Ali and other people who saw the clashes said security forces fired pellets and tear gas to break up the gathering. Police said mourners violated prohibitory orders that restrict all religious processions to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus.

"The forces fired pellets at the procession that was mainly peaceful and included women," said another witness Iqbal Ahmad.

At least 40 people were injured, according to witnesses. Medical workers at a hospital in Srinagar told The Associated Press they treated at least 30 people, some of them with pellet and tear gas injuries.

Residents said many other injured were taken to another hospital in the city.

Videos circulating on social media showed police in armed vehicles warning the mourners to disperse before firing shotgun pellets and tear gas on them.

Some mourners were also seen raising slogans seeking an end to the Indian rule in the disputed region.

"The procession was not just peaceful but was also following health protocols," said Sajjad Hussain, a witness. "They [government forces] unleashed such violence and did not spare even women mourners."

A police officer told The Associated Press they were confirming the number of injured.

Muharram is among the holiest days for Muslims across the world and includes large processions of mainly Shia Muslim mourners beating their chests while reciting elegies and chanting slogans to denounce the slaughter of Husayn, Prophet Muhammad's grandson, and his companions.

Police in Indian-administered Kashmir broke up several Muharram processions this week.

Officials said at least 200 people were detained in Srinagar for participating in the processions and at least seven people were arrested under an anti-terror law for raising pro-freedom slogans.

Some main Muharram processions have been banned in the Muslim-majority region since an armed rebellion broke out in 1989 demanding independence from India or a merger with neighbouring Pakistan.

But Kashmiri Muslims have long complained the Indian administration curbs their religious freedom on the pretext of law and order while promoting an annual Hindu pilgrimage to the Himalayan Amarnath Shrine in Kashmir that draws hundreds of thousands of visitors.

Seven suspected rebels killed

The violence in Srinagar came shortly after officials said at least seven suspected rebels and an Indian army soldier were killed in two gunbattles, also in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Three rebels and a soldier died early on Saturday after troops and police launched a search operation in a village in southern Pulwama district, said Colonel Rajesh Kalia, an Indian army spokesman.


On Friday, joint teams of army, paramilitary and police forces cordoned off a village in southern Shopian district following a tip that rebels were hiding there, leading to an exchange of fire, police said.

Four rebels were killed and another arrested during the operation, a police statement said.

Vijay Kumar, the inspector general of police, told reporters that one of the deceased in Friday's gunfight was the district commander of Al-Badr rebel group.

Conditions have worsened in Indian-administered Kashmir since August last year, when New Delhi stripped the region of its statehood and semi-autonomy, setting off widespread anger and economic ruin under a harsh security clampdown.

Since January, Indian forces have killed 180 rebels during counterinsurgency operations, according to the Jammu Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society, a rights group.

Based on official figures, data shows that more than half of them had joined the rebels less than a year ago, and of those, most had been active for only a few months.

At least 68 government forces and 46 civilians were also killed in the same period, the rights group said.

India and Pakistan claim the divided territory of Kashmir in its entirety. A small sliver of the region is also controlled by China.

India accuses Pakistan of arming and training the rebels, a charge Pakistan denies.

According to several human rights groups, nearly 70,000 people have been killed in the conflict since 1989.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ram-procession-witnesses-200829164003807.html
 
Obey the laws of the state, it is as simple as that. Don't cry victim after you break them.
 
Thomaskutty said:
Obey the laws of the state, it is as simple as that. Don't cry victim after you break them.
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That's good....but why different laws for different groups.
I mean, when you allow Rath Yatra and Ram temple gatherings while you keep banning other religious gatherings.
People do have a right to feel aggrieved.
 
Ashmal said:
That's good....but why different laws for different groups.
I mean, when you allow Rath Yatra and Ram temple gatherings while you keep banning other religious gatherings.
People do have a right to feel aggrieved.
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Those were not social gatherings. Rath Yatra happened for the first time in history without devotees and Ram temple Pooja was attended only by priests and few select individuals inc. the PM.

https://www.financialexpress.com/ph...chariots-in-puri-without-devotees-see-images/

Just yesterday a few 100 meters from my house , police stopped a Ganesh Nimarjan for not following the rules.

This victim mentality among some is nauseating.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Senior executive editor of India Today justifying blinding of young Kashmiris. <br><br>Utterly despicable! <a href="https://t.co/hjnidc0i3S">https://t.co/hjnidc0i3S</a></p>— Raqib Hameed Naik (@raqib_naik) <a href="https://twitter.com/raqib_naik/status/1299759368532045825?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Liar , he wanted freedom so got Indian forces gave him . <a href="https://t.co/4Mz0oeCrZc">https://t.co/4Mz0oeCrZc</a></p>— Amish Devgan (@AMISHDEVGAN) <a href="https://twitter.com/AMISHDEVGAN/status/1299889611808751616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Yazeed-e-Waqt

This is exactly why Imam Hussain AS sacrificed himself and his family; to stand up to tyranny and oppression.

I can understand that they had restrictions but using guns against your own citizens is the definition of oppression. This is no way to disperse a crowd and making them blind using pellet guns actually justifies the stoning of authorities. Who in their right minds wouldn't resist if they saw pellet guns being used against their loved ones? It is one thing to lay on your couch and be righteous and say that protocols were not followed and another thing to see a loved one gunned down for not following rules.
 
This is disgusting.

Hitler will be proud of what India has become.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“When a BJP MLA violated lockdown norms and set up a pandal, hosted a mass feast for almost 10 days, police remained silent & cooperated with them. But when members of the Muslim community hold Muharram processions, police slap NSA charges against them.”<a href="https://t.co/Cx6Lmw2SA2">https://t.co/Cx6Lmw2SA2</a></p>— IndianAmericanMuslimCouncil (@IAMCouncil) <a href="https://twitter.com/IAMCouncil/status/1302276671236698116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“When a BJP MLA violated lockdown norms and set up a pandal, hosted a mass feast for almost 10 days, police remained silent & cooperated with them. But when members of the Muslim community hold Muharram processions, police slap NSA charges against them.”<a href="https://t.co/Cx6Lmw2SA2">https://t.co/Cx6Lmw2SA2</a></p>— IndianAmericanMuslimCouncil (@IAMCouncil) <a href="https://twitter.com/IAMCouncil/status/1302276671236698116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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[MENTION=152021]Rajdeep[/MENTION] anything you want to say on this?
 
Thomaskutty said:
They were putting the public at risk in times of a national health emergency, with the potential spread of CV19.
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lol. India has millions putting the public at risk.

Just say what you feel as you and your fellow countrymen have not condemned the pellet injuries photos. So dont expect myself and others to condemn when people defend themselves and send the occupiers to hell.
 
IMMY69 said:
This is disgusting.

Hitler will be proud of what India has become.
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He'll be jealous because he had to turn Germany into a dictatorship to do what he did but India is doing everything while being a democracy
 
Those who are claiming that muharam was banned due to covid are liars. They should check that it was banned last year too.
 
m.shah said:
Those who are claiming that muharam was banned due to covid are liars. They should check that it was banned last year too.
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They’ll just say that it must’ve been banned for altogether different reasons last year, and that this year the ban was due to Covid...
 
Banning religious practices a shinning example of a secular state. India should drop the facade and admit it's a Hindu state.

Just look at some of the things that have been happening recently in India:

  • Slaughtering people for eating or transporting beef
  • Banning Ashura processions
  • Renaming cities or roads which were previously named after Muslims
  • Revising their history to show Muslim rulers of the area as tyrants and foreign invaders
  • Forcing mosques to not play Azaan over the loudspeakers
  • Destroying mosques and giving away the land to build temples,
  • Discrimination against Muslims under the new citizenship law where being non-Muslim fast tracks you towards Indian citizenship.
  • Frequent rioting and communal violence targeting the Muslims have resulted in over 10,000 Muslim deaths in India


It is a fact that Muslims in India continue to face discrimination in areas including employment, education, and housing (https://www.stimson.org/wp-content/files/file-attachments/Muslim_Indians-Complete_1.pdf). Moreover, they often struggle to secure justice after suffering discrimination, despite constitutional protections.

A 2019 report by nongovernmental organization Common Cause found that half of police surveyed showed anti-Muslim bias, making them less likely to intervene to stop crimes against Muslims. (https://www.commoncause.in/uploadim...ndia_Report_2019_by_Common_Cause_and_CSDS.pdf)
 
IMMY69 said:
This is disgusting.

Hitler will be proud of what India has become.
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No he wouldn't. Germany has always been a shining example of efficiency and strict hygiene standards. Even after being devastated by world war losses look at how they rebuilt themselves while Indians are still trying to escape a third world hell despite being free from war for the best part of a century.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
No he wouldn't. Germany has always been a shining example of efficiency and strict hygiene standards. Even after being devastated by world war losses look at how they rebuilt themselves while Indians are still trying to escape a third world hell despite being free from war for the best part of a century.
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Maybe Mussolini would be proud of them then, given how the Italians were the inept fascists circa WWII?
 
Speaking of which, now that the Humsaaya Mulk has embraced fascism, maybe what it needs is for the Congress to segue into the Mussolini-inspired version instead of the Nazi variant the RSS styled itself after?

Sonia Gandhi could start calling herself El Duchess, and take it from there...
 
Nostalgic said:
Maybe Mussolini would be proud of them then, given how the Italians were the inept fascists circa WWII?
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Mussolini might have been proud that India's favourite son chose Italy as the dream destination for his marriage. As long as he kept a strict watch on his entourage and ensured they returned to India safely and in full numbers.
 
For those who dont know, there are restrictions on Shia Ashura processions in Kashmir every year. This is not the first time it has happened. And this is not the first time clashes have taken place between Indian forces and the muslim mourners.
 
uberkoen said:
Banning religious practices a shinning example of a secular state. India should drop the facade and admit it's a Hindu state.

Just look at some of the things that have been happening recently in India:

  • Slaughtering people for eating or transporting beef
  • Banning Ashura processions
  • Renaming cities or roads which were previously named after Muslims
  • Revising their history to show Muslim rulers of the area as tyrants and foreign invaders
  • Forcing mosques to not play Azaan over the loudspeakers
  • Destroying mosques and giving away the land to build temples,
  • Discrimination against Muslims under the new citizenship law where being non-Muslim fast tracks you towards Indian citizenship.
  • Frequent rioting and communal violence targeting the Muslims have resulted in over 10,000 Muslim deaths in India


It is a fact that Muslims in India continue to face discrimination in areas including employment, education, and housing (https://www.stimson.org/wp-content/files/file-attachments/Muslim_Indians-Complete_1.pdf). Moreover, they often struggle to secure justice after suffering discrimination, despite constitutional protections.

A 2019 report by nongovernmental organization Common Cause found that half of police surveyed showed anti-Muslim bias, making them less likely to intervene to stop crimes against Muslims. (https://www.commoncause.in/uploadim...ndia_Report_2019_by_Common_Cause_and_CSDS.pdf)
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You make it sound as if India would be sanctioned by the world and breaking international laws if it was a hindu country. There are muslim christian buddhist and jewish countries around the world, so a hindu country wont be an issue and hence India doesn't need any facade.

1. Slaughtering of cows is prohibited in most of India, its a crime.Everyone is expected to obey the laws.

2. Happens annually every year. This year its the pandemic. Infact hindus in bengal were up in arms for last few years as the govt here banned Durga puja visarjan to give primacy to Muhurram procession.

3. Why should the country have things named after foreign invaders and tyrants? Right now people are pulling down statues and memorials of heroes of western nations because of their involvement with slavery. Similarly these tyrants will have no place in India.

4. Its not a revision. Please name a few muslim dynasties whose roots were in India.

5. No one is allowed to use loud speakers between 11pm to 6am. Thats the supreme court verdict. Also there are other rules regarding the use of a loudspeaker in public.

6. A temple was destroyed to build that mosque.It was proven by archaeological excavations and the case was fought in courts.

7. Law is fair. Muslims of Pakistan and BD got their land in 1947, the non muslims got stuck in these places as second class citizens. Its only fair that they get the chance to come a non muslim nation and get equal rights.Also the law only applies to non muslims who arrived as refugees in India before 2015. Muslims though are free to apply for citizenship via usual route.

8. Did you miss the number of non muslim deaths in those riots?
 
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cricketjoshila said:
You make it sound as if India would be sanctioned by the world and breaking international laws if it was a hindu country. There are muslim christian buddhist and jewish countries around the world, so a hindu country wont be an issue and hence India doesn't need any facade.

1. Slaughtering of cows is prohibited in most of India, its a crime.Everyone is expected to obey the laws.

2. Happens annually every year. This year its the pandemic. Infact hindus in bengal were up in arms for last few years as the govt here banned Durga puja visarjan to give primacy to Muhurram procession.

3. Why should the country have things named after foreign invaders and tyrants? Right now people are pulling down statues and memorials of heroes of western nations because of their involvement with slavery. Similarly these tyrants will have no place in India.

4. Its not a revision. Please name a few muslim dynasties whose roots were in India.

5. No one is allowed to use loud speakers between 11pm to 6am. Thats the supreme court verdict. Also there are other rules regarding the use of a loudspeaker in public.

6. A temple was destroyed to build that mosque.It was proven by archaeological excavations and the case was fought in courts.

7. Law is fair. Muslims of Pakistan and BD got their land in 1947, the non muslims got stuck in these places as second class citizens. Its only fair that they get the chance to come a non muslim nation and get equal rights.Also the law only applies to non muslims who arrived as refugees in India before 2015. Muslims though are free to apply for citizenship via usual route.

8. Did you miss the number of non muslim deaths in those riots?
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What you're saying is that India should indeed drop the facade of being a secular nation and openly refer to itself as a nation for hindu's. That's what I said. All your replies openly point to the fact that you are okay with the continued persecution of Muslims in India.

1. If slaughtering of cows is prohibited in India. How come India is the 3rd largest global exporter of beef? It's only prohibited when it's the Muslims doing it but if you're making money then go ahead and slaughter gao mata for laxmi!

2. It does not happen every year. Stop lying. It was also banned last year.

3. The Mughals had deep roots in the country. All Mughal rulers starting from Akbar were born in India. That's almost 300 years of Mughals being born in India and you still consider them foreigners? Muhammad bin Tughluq was born in Multan, his successor Firuz Shah Tughlaq was born in Dipalpur. The Tughluqs ruled for 92 years out of which 88 years were ruled by people born in India/Pakistan.

5. Banning the use of loudspeakers only effects one religious community and you know that's a fact.

6. Proven by whom? Hindu archaeologists. How convenient!

7. The basis of the law is based on religion. A secular nation is defined as one which separates itself from religion. The fact that India is unable to do that means India is not a secular nation (which was my point to begin with and to which you have agreed to now.)
 
cricketjoshila said:
7. Law is fair. Muslims of Pakistan and BD got their land in 1947, the non muslims got stuck in these places as second class citizens. Its only fair that they get the chance to come a non muslim nation and get equal rights.Also the law only applies to non muslims who arrived as refugees in India before 2015. Muslims though are free to apply for citizenship via usual route
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Why exclude non Muslims who are still living in Pakistan and Bangladesh after 2014? If they are second class citizens why not take all of them? The percentage of non Muslims living in Pakistan and Bangladesh compared to the number of refugees is minuscule.

cricketjoshila said:
3. Why should the country have things named after foreign invaders and tyrants? Right now people are pulling down statues and memorials of heroes of western nations because of their involvement with slavery. Similarly these tyrants will have no place in India.

4. Its not a revision. Please name a few muslim dynasties whose roots were in India.
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Your definition of foreigner excludes any Muslim who had a ancestor who came from C.Asia, Iran, or Afghnaistan. While i completely disagree with that i can point the following dynasties that meet your requirements:

1 - Gujarat Sultanate
2 - Ahmednagar Sultanate
3 - Berar Sultanate
4 - Jaunpur (not positive on this one)

So why is the BJP advocating renaming of Ahmedabad, when a Muslim Rajput built that Old City of Ahmedabad from scratch? I will tell you why, pure Muslim hated.
 
uberkoen said:
Banning religious practices a shinning example of a secular state. India should drop the facade and admit it's a Hindu state.

Just look at some of the things that have been happening recently in India:

  • Slaughtering people for eating or transporting beef
  • Banning Ashura processions
  • Renaming cities or roads which were previously named after Muslims
  • Revising their history to show Muslim rulers of the area as tyrants and foreign invaders
  • Forcing mosques to not play Azaan over the loudspeakers
  • Destroying mosques and giving away the land to build temples,
  • Discrimination against Muslims under the new citizenship law where being non-Muslim fast tracks you towards Indian citizenship.
  • Frequent rioting and communal violence targeting the Muslims have resulted in over 10,000 Muslim deaths in India


It is a fact that Muslims in India continue to face discrimination in areas including employment, education, and housing (https://www.stimson.org/wp-content/files/file-attachments/Muslim_Indians-Complete_1.pdf). Moreover, they often struggle to secure justice after suffering discrimination, despite constitutional protections.

A 2019 report by nongovernmental organization Common Cause found that half of police surveyed showed anti-Muslim bias, making them less likely to intervene to stop crimes against Muslims. (https://www.commoncause.in/uploadim...ia_Report_2019_by_Common_ Cause_and_CSDS.pdf)
Click to expand...

Loudspeaker part I don't agree with you, rest are more or less fine. You forgot to add that terror accused Sadhvi Pragya Thakur is MP from Bhopal while there is not a single Muslim Lok Sabha MP from ruling party BJP, 0/303. Can a terror accused Muslim ever become MP and then celebrated? Madness.

Even when BJP claims to help Muslims there is always a sinister design, like the Triple Talaq drama where civil matter becomes a criminal offence.
 
uberkoen said:
What you're saying is that India should indeed drop the facade of being a secular nation and openly refer to itself as a nation for hindu's. That's what I said. All your replies openly point to the fact that you are okay with the continued persecution of Muslims in India.

1. If slaughtering of cows is prohibited in India. How come India is the 3rd largest global exporter of beef? It's only prohibited when it's the Muslims doing it but if you're making money then go ahead and slaughter gao mata for laxmi!

2. It does not happen every year. Stop lying. It was also banned last year.

3. The Mughals had deep roots in the country. All Mughal rulers starting from Akbar were born in India. That's almost 300 years of Mughals being born in India and you still consider them foreigners? Muhammad bin Tughluq was born in Multan, his successor Firuz Shah Tughlaq was born in Dipalpur. The Tughluqs ruled for 92 years out of which 88 years were ruled by people born in India/Pakistan.

5. Banning the use of loudspeakers only effects one religious community and you know that's a fact.

6. Proven by whom? Hindu archaeologists. How convenient!

7. The basis of the law is based on religion. A secular nation is defined as one which separates itself from religion. The fact that India is unable to do that means India is not a secular nation (which was my point to begin with and to which you have agreed to now.)
Click to expand...


What i am saying is that india doesn't need a facade. If it declares itself a Hindu nation, its not going to face any trouble. So if India was really a hindu country, it would declare itself so.

1. Yes slaughtering of cow is banned in most of India. Beef exported from India is mostly buffalo meat.

Only boneless meat of buffalo, male & female (NOT beef) & meat of goat & sheep is permitted to be exported, subject to provisions specified in Gazette Notifications on raw meat,” the minister said in her tweets.

India is the largest buffalo meat exporting country globally and the quantity of meat exported from India has been increasing over the years and so has been the number of target countries for such exports.

Commerce and Industry Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said as per the existing meat export policy, the shipments of beef (meat of cow, oxen and calf) is prohibited. Bone in meat, carcass, half carcass of buffalo is also prohibited and is not permitted to be exported.


Only the boneless meat of buffalo, meat of
goat and sheep and birds is permitted for


https://www.dnaindia.com/business/r...at-over-rs-21k-cr-in-10-mths-in-fy-17-2370398


2. It happens every year. These are last year muhurram proceedings in Kolkata.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/zeen...rocession-on-10th-day-of-muharram-2233558/amp

3. Mughals were Barlas, Tughluqs were Turks. Nit from India. They were foreign invaders.

4. Banning of loudspeaker is for every function, religious or non religious. No community can or should ask for special treatment.

5. Google the name K.K Mohammed. India is more than 80 percent non muslim, so majority of people in any field will be non muslim. There cannot and will not be separate religious based hiring.

6. The law is based on partition agreement. Muslims wanted a separate country and got it. Hence they wouldn't be allowed back. Non muslims OTOH will be.

Secularism means, no state religion. India doesn't have one.
 
uberkoen said:
Banning religious practices a shinning example of a secular state. India should drop the facade and admit it's a Hindu state.

Just look at some of the things that have been happening recently in India:

  • Slaughtering people for eating or transporting beef
  • Banning Ashura processions
  • Renaming cities or roads which were previously named after Muslims
  • Revising their history to show Muslim rulers of the area as tyrants and foreign invaders
  • Forcing mosques to not play Azaan over the loudspeakers
  • Destroying mosques and giving away the land to build temples,
  • Discrimination against Muslims under the new citizenship law where being non-Muslim fast tracks you towards Indian citizenship.
  • Frequent rioting and communal violence targeting the Muslims have resulted in over 10,000 Muslim deaths in India


It is a fact that Muslims in India continue to face discrimination in areas including employment, education, and housing (https://www.stimson.org/wp-content/files/file-attachments/Muslim_Indians-Complete_1.pdf). Moreover, they often struggle to secure justice after suffering discrimination, despite constitutional protections.

A 2019 report by nongovernmental organization Common Cause found that half of police surveyed showed anti-Muslim bias, making them less likely to intervene to stop crimes against Muslims. (https://www.commoncause.in/uploadim...ndia_Report_2019_by_Common_Cause_and_CSDS.pdf)
Click to expand...

One Major given to build a temple.
Banning beef is stupid.
Fast tracking non Muslims to Indian citizenship is a great move. Where else will the non Muslims go when their lives are under threat in Pak, Afghanistan and Bangladesh?
Communal violence does not mean only Muslims die. It is due to blind faith in invisible God.
Renaming cities and streets from barbaric conquerors is a good move too. These are the same names that killed thousands of Indians in the name of expansion, plunder and religion.
All of the Mughals, Central Asians, Arabs, Turks are all barbarians. Why should Indians respect them? They did not come to preach and live peacefully. They came to plunder and rule over the natives by force.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
One Major given to build a temple.
Banning beef is stupid.
Fast tracking non Muslims to Indian citizenship is a great move. Where else will the non Muslims go when their lives are under threat in Pak, Afghanistan and Bangladesh?
Communal violence does not mean only Muslims die. It is due to blind faith in invisible God.
Renaming cities and streets from barbaric conquerors is a good move too. These are the same names that killed thousands of Indians in the name of expansion, plunder and religion.
All of the Mughals, Central Asians, Arabs, Turks are all barbarians. Why should Indians respect them? They did not come to preach and live peacefully. They came to plunder and rule over the natives by force.
Click to expand...

You're right the Indians shouldn't respect them nor should the Indians respect the faith of the Muslims. As India takes no pride in its Muslim history but wants to rewrite it showing the Mughals as barbarians while praising other Hindu rulers who were probably even worse.

Bollywood is leading this revisionist history mindset. Hindutva is embedded in everything India does. I'm not saying its wrong. All I'm saying is that Indians and India itself should accept it and not hide behind the facade of being a secular country.

As mentioned above the very definition of secular country is that religion does not play any part in the running of the state. The law which grants fast-tracked citizenship to non-Muslims is based on religion. Moreover, this whole argument of persecuted non-Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh needing help is complete and utter trash as we know the condition that the refugees who come from these countries are forced to live in. Moreover, what about Ahmedi Muslims? Why not grant them fast track citizenship? Are they not persecuted?

Your arguments are illogical and absurd. The Mughals ruled here and stayed here for 900 years. So you saying they only came to loot and plunder is beyond stupid.
 
cricketjoshila said:
What i am saying is that india doesn't need a facade. If it declares itself a Hindu nation, its not going to face any trouble. So if India was really a hindu country, it would declare itself so.

1. Yes slaughtering of cow is banned in most of India. Beef exported from India is mostly buffalo meat.

Only boneless meat of buffalo, male & female (NOT beef) & meat of goat & sheep is permitted to be exported, subject to provisions specified in Gazette Notifications on raw meat,” the minister said in her tweets.

India is the largest buffalo meat exporting country globally and the quantity of meat exported from India has been increasing over the years and so has been the number of target countries for such exports.

Commerce and Industry Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said as per the existing meat export policy, the shipments of beef (meat of cow, oxen and calf) is prohibited. Bone in meat, carcass, half carcass of buffalo is also prohibited and is not permitted to be exported.


Only the boneless meat of buffalo, meat of
goat and sheep and birds is permitted for


https://www.dnaindia.com/business/r...at-over-rs-21k-cr-in-10-mths-in-fy-17-2370398


2. It happens every year. These are last year muhurram proceedings in Kolkata.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/zeen...rocession-on-10th-day-of-muharram-2233558/amp

3. Mughals were Barlas, Tughluqs were Turks. Nit from India. They were foreign invaders.

4. Banning of loudspeaker is for every function, religious or non religious. No community can or should ask for special treatment.

5. Google the name K.K Mohammed. India is more than 80 percent non muslim, so majority of people in any field will be non muslim. There cannot and will not be separate religious based hiring.

6. The law is based on partition agreement. Muslims wanted a separate country and got it. Hence they wouldn't be allowed back. Non muslims OTOH will be.

Secularism means, no state religion. India doesn't have one.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to debate with you as the points you've made are rather silly. If you can't see the fact that India is moving towards Hindutva while persecuting its Muslim community I really can't help you.

Honestly man, just drop the facade and accept the reality.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Loudspeaker part I don't agree with you, rest are more or less fine. You forgot to add that terror accused Sadhvi Pragya Thakur is MP from Bhopal while there is not a single Muslim Lok Sabha MP from ruling party BJP, 0/303. Can a terror accused Muslim ever become MP and then celebrated? Madness.

Even when BJP claims to help Muslims there is always a sinister design, like the Triple Talaq drama where civil matter becomes a criminal offence.
Click to expand...

Waiting for [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139084]Lurker_Ind[/MENTION] to come up with more excuses to explain all of this.
 
Lurker_Ind said:
Fast tracking non Muslims to Indian citizenship is a great move. Where else will the non Muslims go when their lives are under threat in Pak, Afghanistan and Bangladesh?
Click to expand...

Why then restrict it to people who are in India before end of 2014? Why not offer citizenship to all non Muslims?

Lurker_Ind said:
Renaming cities and streets from barbaric conquerors is a good move too. These are the same names that killed thousands of Indians in the name of expansion, plunder and religion.
Click to expand...

Did Hindu Kings not kill thousands of Indians in the name of expansion and plunder? Did they not humiliate lower caste Hindus in the name of religion? Do you also support removing anything named after those Kings? Or do you think Hindu Kings were peaceful people who took and maintained the throne without any violence?

Lurker_Ind said:
All of the Mughals, Central Asians, Arabs, Turks are all barbarians. Why should Indians respect them? They did not come to preach and live peacefully. They came to plunder and rule over the natives by force.
Click to expand...

Because of their cultural contributions. From cuisine, language, arts, clothing, architecture, they are responsible for its creation.

When Indians eat Pizza they eat Italian food. When Indians eat Samosa they eat Indian food.

When Indians wear jeans they are wearing they western clothes. When they wear Shalwar Kameez they are wearing Indian clothes.

Why do Indians view these Central Asians things as Indian? Because these Kings were born and bred in India, they made India there home, they intermarried with the locals. Its absurd to call people foreigners who are living there for so long.

The only reason you and other Right wingers hate them is because they are Muslim. Had they converted to Hinduism you would view them as Indian. At least be honest, and stop hiding behind this "foreigner" nonsense.
 
Last edited:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">सिर पर टोपी या दाढ़ी देखते ही तीन महीने पहले चैनलों के संपादकों और एंकरों का खून खौलने लगता था।साफ है वो मुसलमानों को लेकर ज़हरीली सोच रखते हैं।लेकिन अब लोग ढोल बजाकर नाच रहे हैं।तो कोई फर्क नहीं।क्योंकि बीजेपी के मजमे मे नाच राष्ट्रवाद है।<br><br>मुसलमानों से नफ़रत गो गो गो। हो हो हो। <a href="https://t.co/nmsKOcu3n9">pic.twitter.com/nmsKOcu3n9</a></p>— Navin Kumar (@navinjournalist) <a href="https://twitter.com/navinjournalist/status/1303310390193913856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">सिर पर टोपी या दाढ़ी देखते ही तीन महीने पहले चैनलों के संपादकों और एंकरों का खून खौलने लगता था।साफ है वो मुसलमानों को लेकर ज़हरीली सोच रखते हैं।लेकिन अब लोग ढोल बजाकर नाच रहे हैं।तो कोई फर्क नहीं।क्योंकि बीजेपी के मजमे मे नाच राष्ट्रवाद है।<br><br>मुसलमानों से नफ़रत गो गो गो। हो हो हो। <a href="https://t.co/nmsKOcu3n9">pic.twitter.com/nmsKOcu3n9</a></p>— Navin Kumar (@navinjournalist) <a href="https://twitter.com/navinjournalist/status/1303310390193913856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...


Corona Jihadist? doesn't apply to them because they aren't Muslims?
 
On August 29, the 10th day of the holy month of Muharram, known as Ashoura, Indian forces fired pellets and tear gas shells to disperse hundreds of Shia Muslims participating in a traditional religious procession in Indian-administered Kashmir, seriously injuring dozens of people.

Security forces besieged Shia mourners in the Zadibal area of Srinagar, forcing them to seek shelter in residential compounds, as tear gas shells and pellets rained on them. I saw young boys hit with pellets writhing in pain on the ground, as dozens of others choked and coughed among thick clouds of tear gas, unable to help the injured or find a safe spot to catch their breath.

Officials later said at least 200 people were detained for participating in the Muharram processions, and at least seven were arrested under a draconian anti-terror law for raising anti-India slogans.

The Indian state's decision to clamp down on this year's Muharram procession with such force was a sign of its growing concerns over the support Kashmiri Shia started to show for the freedom and self-determination movement in the valley.

Indian authorities have long been pushing the narrative that Indian-administered Kashmir's Sunni-led pro-freedom movement is shunned by Shia and other minority communities in the region. In recent years, however, young Shia men and women became increasingly vocal about their demand for political rights, and many of them started to openly back the resistance against Indian rule in their homeland.

For decades, Shia in Kashmir have been commemorating Ashoura, the day that marks the death of Prophet Muhammad's grandson Imam Hussein and his companions in Karbala, with processions. The main procession that traditionally took place in the Srinagar city centre covering 9 kilometres (5.6 miles), however, was banned in the early 1990s, when an armed rebellion against the Indian rule commenced.


Since then, Muharram processions have only been allowed in Shia neighbourhoods of the city. Shia community leaders demanded the restoration of pre-1990 processions, but local authorities denied their requests, citing "security concerns".

Since the ban, a handful of Shia made attempts to defy the Indian state's orders and tried to hold unauthorised Muharram processions, but this limited resistance caused little alarm for the Indian authorities who were all but convinced that Kashmir's Shia community posed no threat to their rule.

In 2018, however, they noticed that things were starting to change.

A poster of the young, popular Sunni rebel commander Burhan Wani appeared in one of the Muharram processions in Srinagar, leaving the Indian government and security services apprehensive. Indian troops killed Wani in an encounter in July 2016, which led to widespread protests in Kashmir that lasted for months.

For a section of the Shia youth to hail a Sunni rebel like Wani in a Muharram procession was unprecedented. Being a regular participant in these processions all my life, I had not seen anything like this before.

Seeing Wani's face in a Muharram procession may have shocked Indian authorities, but among Shia youths, support for the struggle for self-determination had been growing for some time.


There is no doubt that the Kashmir struggle is dominated by the Muslim population, a majority of whom are Sunni. But Shia have always played some kind of role in Kashmir's struggles. In the 1930s, Shia leaders stood next to Sunni leaders in the anti-monarchical struggle against the Dogra rulers.

In post-1947 political and militant assertions against Indian rule, Kashmiri Shias played a leading role, especially in 1950s and 1960s, because of which the community faced reprisal from the state. Socio-economic backwardness of many Shia areas is also attributed to that vengeance.

During the armed rebellion of the 1990s, there were exclusively Shia rebel groups like the Hizb-al-Momineen, and Shia youths also joined other, Sunni-dominated, rebel groups.

In recent decades, though, sectarian violence in neighbouring Pakistan and Afghanistan influenced Kashmiri Shia's perception of the resistance movement. They continued to take part in Kashmir's political life - there has always been a number of Shia both in pro-freedom groups and pro-India political parties - but their involvement in the armed rebellion was reduced to almost nil by the early 2000s.

In addition, some Shia religious leaders participated in the state elections amid boycott calls from the pro-freedom leadership. And high voter turnout in some Shia areas also led to the perception that Shia do not support "the cause".

Of course, Shia were not the only community in Kashmir that has voted in elections. However, a degree of sectarian bias, mixed with tactful propaganda churned out by the state machinery, strengthened the perception that Shia do not support the Kashmiri resistance.


As with other colonial powers, India has historically gained from creating divisions across religious, sectarian, and ethnic fault lines within Kashmir - the Sunni-Shia divide being one of them. That is why the Indian state is scared of Shia's growing support for the resistance, and has responded so brutally to the young Shia expressing pro-freedom slogans during Muharram processions.

There are many reasons why Shia are now becoming more and more visible within the Kashmiri self-determination and freedom struggle. Social media exposed Shia youths in Kashmir to a wide variety of views and narratives on the situation in their homeland and increasing state repression accelerated their politicisation.

Last year, for example, India removed Jammu and Kashmir's semi-autonomous status and fully annexed the disputed region. It split the region into two union territories, and brought both sections directly under New Delhi's control. The move outraged the majority of Kashmiris, including the Shia.

Even in the Ladakh region, where the Shia community - like the Sunni community - remained distant to the pro-freedom movement for years, the removal of the region's semi-autonomous status led to rapid politicisation. People living in the Shia-majority Kargil district of Ladakh, for example, openly voiced their rejection of the abrogation of the special status and bifurcation of Jammu and Kashmir.

For years, the attacks by violent Sunni groups like the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) on Shia communities, coupled with the Indian state's efforts to brew sectarian divisions in Kashmir, limited Kashmiri Shia's participation in the pro-freedom movement. This gave weight to the Indian state's claims that Shia do not support the political struggle in Kashmir.

However, in the face of increasing state repression and violence, young Shia have now decided to articulate their own narrative and negotiate their own space in the landscape of the Kashmiri struggle. Muharram processions, which by their nature underline the importance of values like justice, honour and resistance, are a potent media in their hands.

As India's right-wing, Hindu nationalist government continues with its efforts to change the demographics of the Muslim-majority region, Shia voices for freedom are now rising. For decades, the Indian state was not bothered by the Kashmiri Shia's mourning wails during Muharram. But with state-crafted narratives that long framed Shia as overwhelmingly pro-India and anti-freedom falling apart, and divisions within Kashmir's Muslim communities being bridged, the state is now scared of the new, bold Shia voices calling for justice and freedom.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/indian-state-scared-kashmiri-shia-200916094815183.html
 
Pakistan on Wednesday strongly condemned the Indian forces' use of tear gas to disperse a "peaceful Muharram procession" in occupied Kashmir a day earlier.

On Tuesday, police in Srinagar fired tear gas and warning shots to disperse members of the Shia Muslim community who wanted to participate in processions marking the month of Muharram. They also detained dozens of people.

Government forces also used batons to beat journalists covering the procession, according to a local reporter.

In a statement today, the Foreign Office said the Indian government's restrictions on processions during Muharram represented a "complete disrespect and deep-rooted prejudice [...] for the sentiments of the Muslims" in Indian occupied Kashmir.

It termed the restrictions a "flagrant violation" of Kashmiris' fundamental right to freely practise their religion.

The Foreign Office said India needed to realise that it could not break the will of the Kashmiri people to struggle for their right to self-determination through "oppression, intimidation and systematic violation of fundamental rights".

Pakistan called upon the international community, United Nations and other human rights organisations to take notice of the "brutal suppression of the religious rights and freedoms" of the people in Indian-occupied Kashmir which was a violation of international law and conventions, the statement further said.

A day earlier, IoK's Inspector General of Police Vijay Kumar said that "we respect the religious sentiments and practices of all, but at the same time, it is also our joint responsibility to defeat the ill designs of vested interests who try to disturb the peaceful atmosphere."

Muharram is among the holiest months for Shia Muslims across the world and includes large processions in which people recite elegies to mourn the death of Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) grandson. The mourning reaches its peak on Ashura, the 10th day of the month in the Islamic lunar calendar.

The Muharram procession in IoK turned violent last year as Indian forces fired shotgun pellets to disperse crowds, injuring dozens.

Some main Muharram processions have been banned in Indian-occupied Kashmir since 1989 when the locals demanded the region's independence from India or its merger with Pakistan.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1641399/d...ar-gas-shelling-on-muharram-procession-in-iok
 
Our Indian friends here, and one in particular, loves to change the goal posts.

First it was Shia are minorities in Pakistan and live in fear.
Then when they get stoned, beaten black and blue in extremist Indian Occupied Kashmir, the law forbids the jaloos.
 
IMMY69 said:
Our Indian friends here, and one in particular, loves to change the goal posts.

First it was Shia are minorities in Pakistan and live in fear.
Then when they get stoned, beaten black and blue in extremist Indian Occupied Kashmir, the law forbids the jaloos.
Click to expand...

All such religious processions are banned in India currently, due to covid.
 
Taliban allowed shia procession of muharram but india didnt from last 3 years , and they talk about hazara shias community safety in pakistan and afghanistan ..... strange ....
 
Lonewarrior said:
Taliban allowed shia procession of muharram but india didnt from last 3 years , and they talk about hazara shias community safety in pakistan and afghanistan ..... strange ....
Click to expand...

Good to see Sunnis and Shias unite for once. Hope these are not crocodile tears by Sunnis towards Shias.
 
So they can allow kumbh mela where hordes and hordes of people turned up from all over but won't allow shia their fundamental right to march during their most holiest period.

Shameful and barbaric act by this heinous hindutva govt.
 
Napa said:
I am pretty sure the number of Shias being killed in India are a lot less than those killed in Pakistan due to religious violence.

Of course, even 1 death is 1 too many. Unfortunately, if security services are attacked they will fire back.

View attachment 111397

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_in_Pakistan#Shias
Click to expand...

A lot of those attacks are done by RAW armed and funded TTP based out of Afghanistan. Unlike India, Pakistan has never banned Ashura processions.
 
Kroll said:
So they can allow kumbh mela where hordes and hordes of people turned up from all over but won't allow shia their fundamental right to march during their most holiest period.

Shameful and barbaric act by this heinous hindutva govt.
Click to expand...

Kumbh was before the 2nd wave struck.

Many hindu festivals like Kanwariya yatra and Rath Yatra have been curtailed.
 
Giannis said:
A lot of those attacks are done by RAW armed and funded TTP based out of Afghanistan. Unlike India, Pakistan has never banned Ashura processions.
Click to expand...

So RAW is killing Shias in Pakistan? Was this before or after they got together with Mossad to bring down the World Trade Centers in NYC?
 
IMMY69 said:
Of course
So beating them up is justified then
Click to expand...

There's a protocol in place vide SOP. if you break it, you will face punishment as per prescribed by national disaster management authority.

There are restrictions in places which differs from place to place with respect to the positivity rate in that place. Respect the restrictions for the people.
 
Police have detained dozens of people in Indian-administered Kashmir as they dispersed Shia Muslims who attempted to participate in processions marking the Muslim month of Muharram.

Dozens of Muslims defied severe security restrictions in parts of the main city of Srinagar and took to the streets chanting religious slogans. The restrictions include a ban on the Shia religious procession.

Muharram is among the holiest months for Muslims across the world and includes large processions of mourners beating their chests while reciting elegies and chanting slogans to mourn the death of Prophet Muhammad’s grandson Hussein and 72 companions in the battle of Karbala in present-day Iraq.

Sunday’s procession marked the eighth day of Muharram, two days before its peak on the day of Ashura.

In 2020, dozens were injured as Indian forces fired shotgun pellets and tear gas to disperse the procession.

Some main Muharram processions have been banned in Kashmir since an armed rebellion broke out in 1989 demanding the region’s independence from India or its merger with neighbouring Pakistan.

Tens of thousands of civilians, rebels and government forces have been killed in the conflict.

Kashmiri Muslims have long complained that the government is curbing their religious freedom on the pretext of maintaining law and order while promoting an annual Hindu pilgrimage to the Amarnath Shrine in a Himalayan cave that draws hundreds of thousands of visitors.

The ongoing Hindu pilgrimage has drawn hundreds of thousands of visitors from across India amid massive security, with tens of thousands of soldiers guarding the routes leading to the cave.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2...lice-break-up-muharram-processions-in-kashmir
 
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