Umar Akmal - Sachin Tendulkar (A Statistical Comparison)

Hansar

Tape Ball Regular
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Runs
318
Firstly, I'd like to wish a very happy birthday to Umar Akmal, who turned 23 today.

Now, on to the business; there's a very pronounced divide amongst the posters here at PakPassion when it comes to Umar Akmal. There are countless blind supporters who acknowledge the undeniable talent that is Umar Akmal, and then there is the other party that sees the faults, namely a lack of temperament.

I belong somewhere in the middle. & here comes the statement which our whole Indian community will rebut with their lives.

Umar Akmal, has the tools to easily surpass Tendulkar as an ODI batsman; he lacks the temperament to achieve similar feats in tests, and most likely won't ever reach him in that respect.

Now, to those who disagree with me and claim that Akmal isn't a very capable batsman, or is a tried and tested bust. I'd like you to keep in mind that cricket is a sport that isn't played in very large volumes, and sample sizes are usually quite small; thus we've fabricated the term 'form', which basically consists of an aspect of luck and confidence, which are both dependant on each other, somewhat defeating the purpose entirely. Myself, I believe that a talented batsman will produce, and should never be dropped on the basis of one or two bad series'.

Here is a more statistical comparison of Sachin & Umar using 'cumulative averages'.

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Sachin:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...emplate=results;type=allround;view=cumulative

Umar:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...emplate=results;type=allround;view=cumulative

Sachin played his 71st ODI about to turn 22, Akmal played his 71st ODI at age 22. Akmal had a much, much higher average to boot at that time; furthermore, Tendulkar didn't score his first ODI century until his 79th match.

His average remained below Akmal's until his 103rd match, however, he did not maintain that average, there were several oscillations in his form until 1998, having played his 191st ODI, after which, he consistently maintained an average in the 40s. He was 25 at this time, he continued on to post 49 ODI centuries.

If Akmal was to go on a slump (Sachin went on several, during his first 71 matched), and his average were to drop below 32, he would probably be dropped from the squad for a very prolonged period of time, making a comeback when he was finally in his 30's.

This is how Pakistan operates, whether its captaincies, switching opening pairs, bowling coaches, batting coaches. This is how we continue to waste our talent, making illogical decisions short-sightedly, while giving ample time to tried and tested failures. One of the glaring reasons why our batting has been a failure, thankfully, Allah has blessed us with such an expansive crop of fast bowlers that, that department rarely suffers. We have undeniable talent stuck in our system, but when will we ever use it properly?

-Insert: Fawad Alam, Khalid Latif, Anwar Ali, Mohammad Rizwan and the list can continue for an eternity.

So the moral of the story is, if they show that they have star talent, stick with it, develop them. They will produce. What's to lose? If they don't produce after a good volume of matches, replace them. Our alternative is to give tried and tested failures such as Imran Farhat a go instead anyway; atleast this way we'll be developing our future.

Heck, even Babar Azam should be given some exposure here an there from an early age, the kid has an average of 57 in list a, consistently topping tournaments, our batting line-up stumbles to 19/4 against teams like Ireland anyway.
 
I think you are underrating Umar Akmal.. a comparison with Bradman might have been more suitable..

A different age, a different time, different conditions, different rules, different bowlers my friend.

I will give Sachin one thing, however, he had an average of 32 facing the likes of Wasim & Waqar, that is truly commendable. :waqar
 
Tendulkar averaged around 47-48 after being promoted up to open for a good 18 years.

Forget Umar Akmal, it is unlikely that ANY batsman can maintain such a high average opening the innings over almost two decades playing different generations of bowlers.

He faced bowlers like Waqar, Wasim, Shoaib, Saqlain, McGrath, Warne, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Pollock, Klusener, Lee, Murali, Steyn etc.

Even though i feel Richards was a better LOI batsman, i doubt he faced as many ATG bowlers as Sachin did.

There was no way the selectors would have dropped Tendulkar when he averaged 30 odd in ODI's during 1993. He already averaged 50+ in tests at that time and was being touted by experts as a future ATG. The only better LOI player than Sachin in India at that time was Azharuddin.

Having said that, i have absolutely no idea why Akmal is not in the Pakistani squad, when it is full of players averaging mid 20's
 
Umar Akmal, has the tools to easily surpass Tendulkar as an ODI batsman;

Here is a more statistical comparison of Sachin & Umar using 'cumulative averages'.

This argument of commutative average after 71 matches has a major flaw.

Even a great batsman like Lara, who was averaging 39+ after 71 matches, is not mentioned in same league as SRT in ODI. If averaging above 32 had any merit then you can find many ODI players fulfilling that criterion but in real world how many are in same league as SRT.

SRT is not a great player in ODI due to averaging 32-33 in first 71 ODI's. Clue is what he did after those 71 matches. After his first 71 matches, he played 393 more matches. In those 393 more matches what did he do? He did something which no one else has done in history.

After his first 71 matches, he scored 18954 ODI runs @ 46.98 with 49 100's & 82 50's. Now there is absolutely no rational basis to take it for granted that Akmal is going to surpass this in his next 393 matches. But you feel very comfortable in making that claim.

I hope I made my point here. Also, selectors not dropping SRT despite having 32 average was not too difficult decision. He was already seen as one of the future greats. In same period when he averaged 32 in ODI, he was averaging 50+ in tests. Selectors had to be brain dead to drop him from ODI based on what he was doing in international cricket. You can't give any credit to selectors to pursue with SRT at that stage. That seems hilarious.

I agree with bottom line message of your post though. Akmal is one of the best bats produced by Pakistan. If Pakistan was filled with likes of SRT, Dhoni or ABD in ODI then then his absence is understandable but Pakistan is full of players averaging 20's. He can surely get one of those 5-6 spots. I think he is the best ODI bat for Pakistan. Best doesn't mean that he is flawless. It means, he is better than others.

Your post would have been lot better without trying to find something which doesn't exist based on this first 71 ODIs argument.
 
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I stopped reading after the part where you said...

He has the ability to surpass Tendulkar in ODI's.

He is just a limited slogger who is much better than any other Pakistani batsmen ,so he has a case to be in the team.

Thats it.

A poor man's Afridi.
 
Good Post, but it is all up to Umar, he certainly can't surpass Tendulkar but he should be persisted with in the ODI Team.
 
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Good Post, but it is all up to Umar, he certainly can surpass Tendulkar and he should be persisted with in the ODI Team.

^^^

This guy says I'm on weed and I love my weed.....
 
This thread is a joke.Carry on.

Surpass Sachin Tendulkar.He will do good to score half the runs.
 
Afridi scored ton earlier than tendu i suppose. Hence according to OP's logic, afridi > tendu.

The problem here is, compare a legends worst form (a legend is still a human) to your greatest form and voila! You surpassed him!
 
What about test matches. The ultimate test of a players abilities is test matches. Tendulkers average in tests was on a steady rise and slowly reaching for the skies whereas Akmals batting was going downhill thus he was dropped from test matches. Compare there test cumulative averages. Umar Akmal bats at 5-6. The oppurtunities he had for notouts, If he had averaged 40+ then this would have been a good comparison.
 
Hmmm...he is dropped rightly.
3 things that will not help him develop further
1 - all the bogus comparisons with other greats of the game
2 - and the constant whining about why Farhat Malik et al get a game ahead of him.
3 - the belief that he has all the shots in the book
He needs to put his head down and work hard on grafting out a long innings
 
No offense, but a very hollow comparison.

You are just looking at it from a statistic perspective, but there is more to cricket than excel sheets.

Tendulkar already at this stage was one of the best test batsman in the world.

He had played some amazing knocks in bizarre batting conditions against world class bowling attacks.

He was improving steadily and was showing mental strength but he wasn't strong enough to make an impact. Umar on the other hand is regressing; he was a far better player in 2009-10 than he is now and there is a repeating pattern to his dismissals from which he refuses to learn. Besides, unlike Tendulkar, he has taken his place for granted. He believed he is untouchable and that mentality has been adopted by his fans too.

Dropping a 22 year old from the squad for the first time after 130 international matches is no big deal at all but he and his fans can't get their heads around it.

Tendulkar was the best young batsman of his generation and that was obvious, Umar is good but a level below Kohli, Root and Pujara both technically and mentally.
 
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I stopped reading after the part where you said...

He has the ability to surpass Tendulkar in ODI's.

He is just a limited slogger who is much better than any other Pakistani batsmen ,so he has a case to be in the team.

Thats it.

A poor man's Afridi.

THIS...........:razzaq
 
Umar Akmal, has the tools to easily surpass Tendulkar as an ODI batsman; he lacks the temperament to achieve similar feats in tests, and most likely won't ever reach him in that respect.

Making no such claim that he will, just pointing out a mere fact, that it is certainly possible. & That we should not be writing off such a talented batsman, whose average by the way is already in the top 10 all time for pak. Some people are here claiming that he is nothing but a slogger like :afridi.

Then there are those who didn't even read the entire post & are making a judgement based on one statement that focusses on the fact that tendulkar had no centuries at this point. All that comparison shows is that we must persist with talent and it will produce, I can certainly argue, that on this lackadaisical batting line-up that we have currently, Akmal has certainly performed.


And then the argument concerning Akmal's test match average and how that indicates how good a batsman he is, well Afridi also averages 37 in test matches, does that make him a good batsman also?
 
This argument of commutative average after 71 matches has a major flaw.

Even a great batsman like Lara, who was averaging 39+ after 71 matches, is not mentioned in same league as SRT in ODI. If averaging above 32 had any merit then you can find many ODI players fulfilling that criterion but in real world how many are in same league as SRT.

SRT is not a great player in ODI due to averaging 32-33 in first 71 ODI's. Clue is what he did after those 71 matches. After his first 71 matches, he played 393 more matches. In those 393 more matches what did he do? He did something which no one else has done in history.

After his first 71 matches, he scored 18954 ODI runs @ 46.98 with 49 100's & 82 50's. Now there is absolutely no rational basis to take it for granted that Akmal is going to surpass this in his next 393 matches. But you feel very comfortable in making that claim.

I hope I made my point here. Also, selectors not dropping SRT despite having 32 average was not too difficult decision. He was already seen as one of the future greats. In same period when he averaged 32 in ODI, he was averaging 50+ in tests. Selectors had to be brain dead to drop him from ODI based on what he was doing in international cricket. You can't give any credit to selectors to pursue with SRT at that stage. That seems hilarious.

I agree with bottom line message of your post though. Akmal is one of the best bats produced by Pakistan. If Pakistan was filled with likes of SRT, Dhoni or ABD in ODI then then his absence is understandable but Pakistan is full of players averaging 20's. He can surely get one of those 5-6 spots. I think he is the best ODI bat for Pakistan. Best doesn't mean that he is flawless. It means, he is better than others.

Your post would have been lot better without trying to find something which doesn't exist based on this first 71 ODIs argument.

After 20 test matches, Tendulkar was averaging 35, after 16 test matches, Akmal is averaging 35.
 
And then the argument concerning Akmal's test match average and how that indicates how good a batsman he is, well Afridi also averages 37 in test matches, does that make him a good batsman also?

That's why, some one also pointed out that you need to watch players to judge how good they can be and not only look at the average.
 
difference is Pakistani selectors have found a bakra in Umar Akmal to blame their problems.

They are pretty much telling him that they dont like his flash and dash approach so he should become a boring batsman.

Iqbal Qasim might have destroyed the best batting talent in Pakistan
 
I think you are underrating Umar Akmal.. a comparison with Bradman might have been more suitable..

Perhaps, I personally see Akmal as the next top all rounder, he could be Imran-esque but Misbah misuses him and NEVER lets him bowl.
 
After 20 test matches, Tendulkar was averaging 35, after 16 test matches, Akmal is averaging 35.

Can you read one sentence entirely without highlighting a part of it? You chose first 71 ODI as period in your analysis and I said,

In same period when he averaged 32 in ODI, he was averaging 50+ in tests.

Going by many threads at PP, it seem Akmal skills are unmatched. I guess, I do watch some virtual cricket. I do need to start watching the real game.
 
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wow..so freaking ridiculous.. u guyzz are narrowing ur perspectives....some players are beyond stats....

Sachin at Umar's age was facing some of the best bowlers of this generation....

And i think some of PPer's must stop having this Umar Akmal's obsession...u guyzz got better batsmen than him
 
Can you read one sentence entirely without highlighting a part of it? You chose first 71 ODI as period in your analysis and I said,



Going by many threads at PP, it seem Akmal skills are unmatched. I guess, I do watch some virtual cricket. I do need to start watching the real game.


Actually, the basis of the argument was not a period of 71 matches. It was to continue giving talented players exposure at the national level so they they may properly develop, and I used a great such as Sachin to augment the validity of my proposal, seeing as after 20 tests and 71 ODI's respectively, he too, was under-performing, and had the Indian selectors been as idiotic as the Pakistani ones, they would have dropped Sachin as well, but they didn't. Pakistani selection committee has a knack for dropping talented players and then waiting 7 years before letting them make their way back into the side, had that happened to Sachin at a time when he was struggling to a worse tune than Akmal, he might not have been the Sachin we all praise today.

The points being made in the argument don't require rocket-science, they're very simple in essence; if there is talent, let him play through slumps.

& anyone who is denying that Akmal has talent simply doesn't watch cricket, the kid already boasts a top 10 average all-time for Pakistan in ODIs, there is no way anyone can say he is just a mindless slogger of a poor man's Shahid Afridi, that is preposterous and blatantly biased.
 
There's a saying - ' The best batsman is the one who is not a part of the team'.

People call for Umar Akmal's head when he gets out in matches and hope he goes back to Domestic. When he's out of the side by their wishes, they want him back. Why? To again call for the head and cry :)))


Please stop Umar Akmal chants people, it's getting ridiculous!
 
The difference between Tendulkar and Akmal was that Tendulkar started from the bottom and rose through the ranks, while akmal started from the top and fell...
 
Sachin to now score three triple hundreds in three tests against South Africa due to the power of the comparison thread vs Umar Akmal. OP is a closeted Sachin fan.
 
Actually, the basis of the argument was not a period of 71 matches. It was to continue giving talented players exposure at the national level so they they may properly develop, and I used a great such as Sachin to augment the validity of my proposal, seeing as after 20 tests and 71 ODI's respectively, he too, was under-performing, and had the Indian selectors been as idiotic as the Pakistani ones, they would have dropped Sachin as well, but they didn't. Pakistani selection committee has a knack for dropping talented players and then waiting 7 years before letting them make their way back into the side, had that happened to Sachin at a time when he was struggling to a worse tune than Akmal, he might not have been the Sachin we all praise today.

See tendus dismissals in 90s and akmal's. (I exclude the factor of bowlers.) tell me who is the mindless slogger? [I ask pak ppers here. am i wrong here?]

The points being made in the argument don't require rocket-science, they're very simple in essence; if there is talent, let him play through slumps.
for how long? give me a time frame.


& anyone who is denying that Akmal has talent simply doesn't watch cricket, the kid already boasts a top 10 average all-time for Pakistan in ODIs, there is no way anyone can say he is just a mindless slogger of a poor man's Shahid Afridi, that is preposterous and blatantly biased.

you see those red statements? they contradict each other.

while comparing, you took pakistan's batting avg (duh.... why not worlwide? he was the next tendu). U akmal may be a super batsman according to pak standard but in terms of word frame of reference (forget world, take india only....) he isn't even good as raina. Raina is a match winner in ODI.
 
Lies, damned lies and then statistics. The OP is the best example of what stats can be used to prove.
 
Currently only batsmen capable of getting close to sachin's record is kholi.
 
here comes the statement which our whole Indian community will rebut with their lives.

Umar Akmal, has the tools to easily surpass Tendulkar as an ODI batsman; he lacks the temperament to achieve similar feats in tests, and most likely won't ever reach him in that respect.

where is Mr. Hansar :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))
 
What the hell :)))

I didnt knew such a BS thread existed.. :))
And BD's first post in here.. he really is a clueless fella :))
 
More crazy umar akmal supporter . I'm sure it's his brothers making up theses threads
 
You do realize the average ODI score during Sachin's that period was around 210-220 and an average of 32 batting down the order was considered very good?
 
Well the comparison is interesting but lets see if Umar Akmal gains his mental toughness back and also gains good responsible TEMPERAMENT!!! Only then still time will tell if he can reach to that level!! There are many Buts and Ifs..
 
What did I just read Sachin and Umar Akmals name in the same line :)) are we trolling indians today ???
 
You do realize the average ODI score during Sachin's that period was around 210-220 and an average of 32 batting down the order was considered very good?

And Umar averages 38 batting at 6 in this era of 300+ scores how is that horrible?

If anything I've been calling for him to be given more responsibility in the top of the order to test him out. If he doesn't deliver by all means drop him but this constant bashing of Umar is getting rather old now.
 
Again, not an apt comparison.

One is a top order player, the other is used as a slogger/finisher.
 
If Sachin hadn't retired from ODI, we would have seen the first 300 in ODI courtesy this thread's juju :yk
 
Again, not an apt comparison.
One is a top order player, the other is used as a slogger/finisher.

Yeah.. That is what is wrong with the thread here.
Btw, did you even read it properly ?
 
Dont even compare this guy to him. One has over 15000 ODI runs and nearly 16000 test runs while the other gets out on full tosses.

One faced wasim,waqar,akhtar,lee,pollock,mcgrath,steyn,donald,warne,saqlain and murali like bowlers while the other has trouble facing tahir.
 
If sachin hadn't decided to retire before this,then he would surely retire after reading this!
 
I stopped reading after the part where you said...

He has the ability to surpass Tendulkar in ODI's.

He is just a limited slogger who is much better than any other Pakistani batsmen ,so he has a case to be in the team.

Thats it.

A poor man's Afridi.

Good Post, but it is all up to Umar, he certainly can't surpass Tendulkar but he should be persisted with in the ODI Team.

Commented on this a while back too when this thread was made.

Seems like I am being right.

As for Mr Ahmed he thinks its a good post.

I wonder if he's still around.

Also, i think SAchin would himself not take these comparisons seriously. He would laugh them off.
 
I'm sure if ST saw this he would die of laughter
 
Excellent thread. I am pretty sure Tendulkar will do well in his last few innings, considering the effect of Umar vs threads have had on Kohli and Rohit :p
 
Junaid Khan had better stats than wasim if we consider the same argument.Does it mean he will end up with 900+ wickets?

You often forget that when we compare UA to A beast like Tendulkar we should always look around the era both played in.

Look at players in ODI cricket who played between Jan 05 1989-Jan 05 1995.The stand out players are DM Jones,Lara,Inzamam,A Ranatunga,de Silva and Tendulkar.

Only 2 with had SR of 80 + at that time.PA de Silva and Tendulkar with Rantunga closing in at 79..


Sachin averaged 36 @ 81.00 at the time where even the best of ODi players like Jones/Lara and Boon we at SR of 60/70.He and de Silva actually were the main players who actually gave care to their SR as well as Avg.If Umar Akmal averages same as Tendulkar(with same SR) did nearly 18 years ago is nothing making him superior/better or even near.

Here is another example of how much era effected ur reasoning is.The highest score during 1989-1996 was 169* by DJ Callaghan (SA) and 169 by Brain Lara(WI).In last 3-4 years we saw 3 200s.

300 + score by a team was very much impossible in those time where as in IndvsAus we saw 9 scores which were above 300 in just 10 innings.In that era keeping wickets and ending up with 250 on board was much more important.

..............................................

A same reason why Steyn is better than Anderson is because both played in same era,against same teams and nearly equal number of matches yet one avgs in 29s while one maintains his average around 22.:yk
 
I'm one who believes in Umar Akmal with my eyes closed.
Having said that, he might, and I repeat, might have the ability to surpass Tendulkar, but he won't. Because UA doesn't have the temperament, and he'll probably never get the chance to play for PAK for long stretches at a time. Now, if our batting prodigy chances to learn, and believe that he can improve, and starts working on his focus and all, he might get real close. But he'll never surpass him, cuz that's not how PAK cricket operates.
 
Umar akmals lucky he wont face the quality of attacks that Sachin faced, magrath walsh wasim waqar donald pollock etc

If theres one person who could pass sachins Odi records its kholi
 
Yeah, he sure can pass Tendulkar. Sachin was just overrated by the Indians, and others bought into this hype. UA has potential to be like Bradman.

In fact didn't Bradman say that Umar Akmal bats just like him!.....Oh Wait!
 
First 94 Matches:

Umar Akmal 2623 Runs @38.57 SR 87 (Away Average 35.9 SR 88)
Scahin Tendulkar 2913 Runs @35.96 SR 80.4 (Away Average 29 SR 72)

Umar Akmal is a very good batsman (especially compared to the rest of Pakistani batsmen) and should play consistently in all 3 formats. He isn't a category 'A' player though (Sachin, ABDV, Kohli) but surely a category B player (Inzmam, Sangakara, Ganguly).
 
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First 94 Matches:

Umar Akmal 2623 Runs @38.57 SR 87 (Away Average 35.9 SR 88)
Scahin Tendulkar 2913 Runs @35.96 SR 80.4 (Away Average 29 SR 72)

Ooh, that Sachin dude is catching up. Umar better buck up
 
Ooh, that Sachin dude is catching up. Umar better buck up

Yeah...and he's about to have some beastly "never before seen in the history of the game" years.

Umar you have a big job in your hands.

Now all you need to do is score a quick 25 ODI hundreds in the next 5 years.
 
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First 94 Matches:

Umar Akmal 2623 Runs @38.57 SR 87 (Away Average 35.9 SR 88)
Scahin Tendulkar 2913 Runs @35.96 SR 80.4 (Away Average 29 SR 72)

Umar Akmal is a very good batsman (especially compared to the rest of Pakistani batsmen) and should play consistently in all 3 formats. He isn't a category 'A' player though (Sachin, ABDV, Kohli) but surely a category B player (Inzmam, Sangakara, Ganguly).

Sachin faced all the great bowlers you read about in your cricket history books. Back in the days even Zim had good attack.

UA faced likes of Tino, kumar, barbie, etc on flat wickets, fielding restrictions and shorter boundaries.

Just a hypothetical scenario, put UA in front of Wasim Waqar, McGrath or Akthar and you can imagine the new stats.
 
whenever i see umar akmal and kamran akmal thread....i laugh lot....funny comparing. him to bradman sachin virat
 
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