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Umar Amin must open with Fakhar Zaman

I am surprised that Fawad Alam has so much support despite his inability to hit boundaries.

Atleast Umar Amin can clear boundaries. Its double standards to demand chances for Fawad Alam and not for Amin.
 
I am surprised that Fawad Alam has so much support despite his inability to hit boundaries.

Atleast Umar Amin can clear boundaries. Its double standards to demand chances for Fawad Alam and not for Amin.
Agreed Amin surprised all by his abilities to hit sixes in Pakistan Cup. At the moment Pakistan team is missing a six hitter and there arent many apart from Fakhar at top. He should ideally be given an opportunity at 4 in place of Malik to accelerate the innings because this is where most often the team losses its momentum in batting.
 
Azhar had one ability that Umar doesn't even know what is that about i.e. Resiliance/Temperament to play long innings; every time I watched Umar Amin in past, he almost alway threw his wicket right after getting set!

This one ability alone set Azhar apart from all youngsters bar Fawad Alam and he should get the nod above Umar Amin in both Tests and ODI's or even Usmal Shalahuddin. Both of them have averages and records that are poles apart from whatever Umar has ever achieved despite all three of them having 7-10 years of domestic cricket.

In Tests, before Umar Amin gets selected, I would def try out Fakkhar Zaman since he has exceptional record in domestic as well; in ODI's, there is only one spot and Fawad or Usman should take it for sure

I was making a point that selectors should first give him chances in ODIs and not thrown straight into test cricket.He has played some lovely innings in List A matches on those sluggish wickets for a few years now.

I agree with the point that Azhar is tempramentally very strong and that is his biggest weapon.I completely agree with that.

Your whole argument revolves around as to how he has failed in international cricket so far.But I think over the years he has improved.I think he is a player who should be backed fully and giving an extended run in the team and allowed to settle down.He has played 15 ODIs in around 7 years.That clearly tells that we haven't backed him and given him an extended run in the team.

I repeat he has got a game that is more suited to modern day cricket than the domestic cricket where we all know about the pitches and stuff.If backed,he can be an asset for Pakistan.With experiences at highest level he'll only get better.
 
He has a lot of talent. And can speak good english and is therefore a future captaincy candidate.

I think he should take the anchor opener role, whilst Fakhar can go after the bowling.

Your thoughts?

Lets open with Amin and shan masood, they can both talk english and thats the only criteria that selection should be based on going forward! :facepalm:
 
I was making a point that selectors should first give him chances in ODIs and not thrown straight into test cricket.He has played some lovely innings in List A matches on those sluggish wickets for a few years now.

I agree with the point that Azhar is tempramentally very strong and that is his biggest weapon.I completely agree with that.

Your whole argument revolves around as to how he has failed in international cricket so far.But I think over the years he has improved.I think he is a player who should be backed fully and giving an extended run in the team and allowed to settle down.He has played 15 ODIs in around 7 years.That clearly tells that we haven't backed him and given him an extended run in the team.

I repeat he has got a game that is more suited to modern day cricket than the domestic cricket where we all know about the pitches and stuff.If backed,he can be an asset for Pakistan.With experiences at highest level he'll only get better.

Good points made here.

Even Abdul Razzaq was initially a failure in his first few games. He was initially a no 10 batsman, but because the selectors had faith in him and gave him a consistent run he became a great player. Umar Amin deserves that consistent run.
 
I am surprised that Fawad Alam has so much support despite his inability to hit boundaries.

Atleast Umar Amin can clear boundaries. Its double standards to demand chances for Fawad Alam and not for Amin.

Fawad Alam has an international average of 40+ in both formats including a century on debut. Umar Amin averages like 12

Amin might look better playing shots, but Fawad has been the more capable batsmen no doubt
 
Fawad was thoroughly exposed by the Aussies, his game simply isn't suited to the modern way.

That being said Amin isn't the answer either, there's no space for mental midgets.
 
Fawad was thoroughly exposed by the Aussies, his game simply isn't suited to the modern way.

That being said Amin isn't the answer either, there's no space for mental midgets.

On what basis are you saying that Amin is a mental midget?
 
^^^A guy averaging 38.00 after almost a decade of domestic cricket is considered a Giant in your book?
 
Sarfaraz had an average in the low 20s when he first started off, if it were left to PP armchair experts Saifi's career would have ended in 2010-2012.

Yes but Sarf was always a middle order batsmen who batted when the team wanted quick runs especially in the death overs... he was not a hard hitter. He played in the top order in domestics if I'm not wrong
 
Sarfaraz had an average in the low 20s when he first started off, if it were left to PP armchair experts Saifi's career would have ended in 2010-2012.



First started is the key, at that point, people are willing to give the player more room to breathe; 8-10 years are quite long to not be able to judge the quality of a player.

Why should Amin be given chances over Usman Salahuddin with a much superior average or someone else who has shown signs that he can do better than Amin and is much younger?
 
Amin looks really good even when he gets out. This shows he has talent.
 
Amin looks really good even when he gets out. This shows he has talent.



Yep, looking good, speaking good english, standing stylishly, dresses well...what are we discussing, a movie career, right?
 
Akmal Jr has an ODI average of 35, does this mean he is successful limited overs player?

Averages are not everything if that was the case then Adam Voges would be the best batsman of this era as per you.
Of course Averages aren't the end all be all, other components must be taken into account, opponent, conditions etc. The reason you don't see people raving about Voges' average is that it is built upon bullying minnow level attacks and a fair share of feasting on home tracks.

It could be argued that Amin has a too small of a sample size to judge him based on his international stats, but even if we analyse his domestic stats his average is yet to exceed 40, which is considered a benchmark. And the quality of cricket at FC level is very poor.
 
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Has everyone forgotten how bad sarfraz was at the start of his international career? Look where he is now.

Its all about showing faith and giving confidence to players. That's what should be given to Amin.
 
Of course Averages aren't the end all be all, other components must be taken into account, opponent, conditions etc. The reason you don't see people raving about Voges' average is that it is built upon bullying minnow level attacks and a fair share of feasting on home tracks.

It could be argued that Amin has a too small of a sample size to judge him based on his international stats, but even if we analyse his domestic stats his average is yet to exceed 40, which is considered a benchmark. And the quality of cricket at FC level is very poor.

Agreed but you also got to have a look at recent domestic stats for Amin. We can't just rule out the possibility that a person cannot improve with time. One needs to understand that last time Amin played for Pak was before his age of 25 and we all know that a batsman peak is from age 28-32.

I just don't like the idea of discounting a person as ttf at the age of 25 and believing that a person cannot improve with time. Just look at Attapattu who had 6 ducks in his first 8-10 tests, as per PP logic he would have been the biggest ttf of all time at that moment and should not even be allowed to compete in domestics but thank god that was not the case.

People need to grasp the idea that a person can improve with time and not discount his career as ttf after 15-20 matches.
 
Agreed but you also got to have a look at recent domestic stats for Amin. We can't just rule out the possibility that a person cannot improve with time. One needs to understand that last time Amin played for Pak was before his age of 25 and we all know that a batsman peak is from age 28-32.

I just don't like the idea of discounting a person as ttf at the age of 25 and believing that a person cannot improve with time. Just look at Attapattu who had 6 ducks in his first 8-10 tests, as per PP logic he would have been the biggest ttf of all time at that moment and should not even be allowed to compete in domestics but thank god that was not the case.

People need to grasp the idea that a person can improve with time and not discount his career as ttf after 15-20 matches.

This comment should be framed in gold.

Honestly the way people have written off Umar Amin here is so unfair. Give him another chance. He has matured now and his recent stats are a reflection of that.
 
Let Amin be the top scorer in domestic for 1-2 years in a row or have one of the best averages (overall) in Pak...else Fakkhar, Fawad, and Usman Salahuddin will be the fiurst three in line
 
Great to hear he has been selected. Now he should open with Fakhar Zaman and we may get this generation's Aamer Sohail and Saeed Anwar duo.
 
Sharjeel is better as explosive against Pacers , but Amin is a far better fielder and useful part time bowler .

I think pakistan batting line up can be this.

Sharjeel
Babaar
Fakhar
Umar Amin
Sarfaraz
Harris
 
Sarfaraz had an average in the low 20s when he first started off, if it were left to PP armchair experts Saifi's career would have ended in 2010-2012.

Not to mention when you play international cricket and don't do well there it also hurts your domestic FC and List-A stats on statsguru.
 
Sarfaraz had an average in the low 20s when he first started off, if it were left to PP armchair experts Saifi's career would have ended in 2010-2012.

This is the problem with some posters, quick to judge, label TTFs. Most cricketers do not start off with a 50 average, they take time to adjust to international cricket. Further still some cricketers get introduced to international cricket, realise their flaws, go back to domestic and work on them and improve.

I agree though his average is a bit low, but he has improved in domestic and is one of the highest run getters these days. Problem probably lies in the fact he was picked when he wasn't doing well in domestic but on potential. Time and time we see guys fail who are picked on potential but poor stats. Dunno why we keep doing it, it never works out. The top international players tend to be the ones who do best in domestic. If you can't hack it in domestic, you probably haven't learnt all there is to learn to make you ready for international cricket.
 
Let Amin be the top scorer in domestic for 1-2 years in a row or have one of the best averages (overall) in Pak...else Fakkhar, Fawad, and Usman Salahuddin will be the fiurst three in line

I don't mind him being recalled, though I'd recall him only for ODIs/T20s for now. But you're right I'd prefer if we gave chances to guys who did the best in domestic, especially those who have already proven worth in internationals (like Fawad and Fakhar). Having said that Fawad ain't coming back if he wasn't given a contract. And Fakhar there's the argument it's not wise to make him play all three formats, might be better to focus on LOI where his game does seem stronger. Hate to see what happened to Jamshed happen to Fakhar, though at least Fakhar seems fitter physically and more disciplined.
 
This hype around Amin will come crashing down and I can't wait.



Ditto, a long time ago when he first got picked, I saw what was being hyped out about him and it turned out to be 'Nothing'...all people see is some shots being played in a so-called 'Elegant' style and they go gaga over him!

My prediction is that he will still struggle to make scores over 50 (if he has not tightened his game by a big stretch), otherwise it will be the same i.e. a good looking 20-30 to keep his fans gushing over his style and elegance
 
Ditto, a long time ago when he first got picked, I saw what was being hyped out about him and it turned out to be 'Nothing'...all people see is some shots being played in a so-called 'Elegant' style and they go gaga over him!

My prediction is that he will still struggle to
make scores over 50
(if he has not tightened his game by a big stretch), otherwise it will be the same i.e. a good looking 20-30 to keep his fans gushing over his style and elegance

he needs to bat in the top 4 to score 50s... And in t20s a 30 ball 40 is a very good score indeed.. As kamran said he had a good t20 series in WI which I agree for a comeback player as an opener and in terms of batting only but his fielding so terrible that a school boy would field better than him.. Wondering how did he start keeping as a career when his fielding is that bad..

people expect all the newcomers or the ones making comebacks should score 50s and 100s straight away... tendulkar had his first 100 after 79 games... Worth to mention here that Amin didnt bat at one position for a whole series yet
 
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Point is not scoring a 50 or 100 in every innings but to be able to convert those starts in to something meaningful...Akmal is a lost cause mostly due to mediocre batting, horrible fielding, and at 35-36, he is not a fit in any format of the game. His fitness is horrible for a man of his small frame, he is barely able to move most of the time. And when he has a bad day in the field (which is almost every game these days), his batting suffers significantly as well!

For Amin, every time I saw hims scoring a good 20-40 runs innings, he ended up just chipping a catch to a fielder; no matter if it is a T20 or an ODI, one should not give their wicket away in such a lame manner, he should do everything in his power to stick around and at least keep rotating the strike. His problem seems to be that his technique gets lose as he spends longer on the crease and he starts hitting the shots in the air more and more. He needs to remember that good batsmen do a lot of running and rely less on shots in the air that have a higher risk associuated to them
 
I think, today Fakhar scored 31 of 27, and Amin reached 31 in 28 or 29 balls - without looking at the numbers, I felt like Fakhar had to work twice for similar out put.

And, that inside out lofted cover drive probably last saw from MoYo, 12 years back.
 
Silly combination

Selfie Shehzad can make dry paint look better than him, Umar Amin was playing pathetically just like Azam knocking around putting pressure on Fakhar Zaman to hit scoring shots.
It felt no different for Fakhar trying to babysit another partner after selfie. His game has gone down due to these pathetic partners supplied by Inzi selector.
Umar Amin does'nt look like a t20 player. There are ton of players good than this Umar Amin to partner Fakhar and release some pressure of him also, one has been shipped to Hong Kong [sahibzada Farhan] natural opener he should've been part of this team, Inzamam the biased nepotistic character only making room for his nephew, players w/ lesser strike rate [like manzoor, umar amin] and other seniors, keeping promising players away.

PAkistan batting still not sorted, Sharjeel Khan is badly needed in the side, FArhan is needed, Haris sohail needs to get a game. Top 4 sides will be playing Pakistan. This pathetic batting line up will put pressure on our superb bowling lineup to carry their bums across the line. They'll be posting lower-than-acceptable totals asking our bowlers to defend somehow
 
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Silly combination

Selfie Shehzad can make dry paint look better than him, Umar Amin was playing pathetically just like Azam knocking around putting pressure on Fakhar Zaman to hit scoring shots.
It felt no different for Fakhar trying to babysit another partner after selfie. His game has gone down due to these pathetic partners supplied by Inzi selector.
Umar Amin does'nt look like a t20 player. There are ton of players good than this Umar Amin to partner Fakhar and release some pressure of him also, one has been shipped to Hong Kong [sahibzada Farhan] natural opener he should've been part of this team, Inzamam the biased nepotistic character only making room for his nephew, players w/ lesser strike rate [like manzoor, umar amin] and other seniors, keeping promising players away.

PAkistan batting still not sorted, Sharjeel Khan is badly needed in the side, FArhan is needed, Haris sohail needs to get a game. Top 4 sides will be playing Pakistan. This pathetic batting line up will put pressure on our superb bowling lineup to carry their bums across the line. They'll be posting lower-than-acceptable totals asking our bowlers to defend somehow

did u see farhan in hong kong sixes,he is struggling badly there,hammad azam on fire there and was looking millions dollars.
 
I think, today Fakhar scored 31 of 27, and Amin reached 31 in 28 or 29 balls - without looking at the numbers, I felt like Fakhar had to work twice for similar out put.

And, that inside out lofted cover drive probably last saw from MoYo, 12 years back.

after todays innings in front of micky arthur how do u see him,,any chance in odi??/inzi has made a big mistake by bringing his nephew,
 
I honestly wasn't as impressed as some. This partnership doesn't address the lack of powerhitting we need to capitalise on the Powerplay overs.

We were going at a RR of 7.43 after the first seven overs on a flat deck against a depleted Sri Lankan attack. Its a good ODI pace but not in T20s. Amin looks a fluent strokemaker suited to ODIs rather than T20s whilst Fakhar hasn't been timing the ball well recently and bowlers are targeting him with legstump line.

Compare this to the likes of Hales and Roy, Gayle and Lewis, Warner and Finch etc, and our lack of powerhitting will be exposed. The bowling won't be able to restrict opponents to low scores every game - we will have to face chases where we need to score 8.5-9 RPO or bat first and score 185-200 if we're to win the next World T20.

Otherwise its like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
 
Pathetic combination what was management thinking?, umar amin is not a t20 player. I would try this combination next T20 series:

1. Fakhar Zaman
2. Babar Azam
3. Haris Sohail
4. Malik
5. Sarfaraz
6. Hammad Azam(power hitter)
7. Faheem Ashraf
8. Shadab Khan/ Imad Wasim
9. Amir
10. Hassan Ali
11. Rumman Raees/Shenwari
 
after todays innings in front of micky arthur how do u see him,,any chance in odi??/inzi has made a big mistake by bringing his nephew,

I think, his capability is far better - today actually he was under par. What happens is that, after long break, if you bring a player (who had been dropped few times previously) and give him one match, the out put is often below par. For example, that LBW shout in 1st over was much closer than Babar's last dismissal, had umpire given it Amin would have been history for 2 more years.

I felt, he was batting too carefully today and a bit scared to play shots. Overall, ODI should be his 1st format and T20 last, because he can rotate strike and play good shots in gaps, can loft as well; but he doesn't have the brutal power of SK. Still, can be a very good T20 player, but definitely should be No. 1 opener in ODI. Eventually, he can be a 3 format player if he toughen mentally.
 
I think, his capability is far better - today actually he was under par. What happens is that, after long break, if you bring a player (who had been dropped few times previously) and give him one match, the out put is often below par. For example, that LBW shout in 1st over was much closer than Babar's last dismissal, had umpire given it Amin would have been history for 2 more years.

I felt, he was batting too carefully today and a bit scared to play shots. Overall, ODI should be his 1st format and T20 last, because he can rotate strike and play good shots in gaps, can loft as well; but he doesn't have the brutal power of SK. Still, can be a very good T20 player, but definitely should be No. 1 opener in ODI. Eventually, he can be a 3 format player if he toughen mentally.

now come to the reality,can micky push for his selection in odi?/
 
Lol interesting that 2 of PPs best posters have different opinions on Amin. Let's see who's right between @Cheif Destroyer and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].
 
Liked the quick rotation of strike by u.amin
Again Inzi picks the right guy for the wrong format
Imam better suited in tests. Amin in ODIs
 
I honestly wasn't as impressed as some. This partnership doesn't address the lack of powerhitting we need to capitalise on the Powerplay overs.

We were going at a RR of 7.43 after the first seven overs on a flat deck against a depleted Sri Lankan attack. Its a good ODI pace but not in T20s. Amin looks a fluent strokemaker suited to ODIs rather than T20s whilst Fakhar hasn't been timing the ball well recently and bowlers are targeting him with legstump line.

Compare this to the likes of Hales and Roy, Gayle and Lewis, Warner and Finch etc, and our lack of powerhitting will be exposed. The bowling won't be able to restrict opponents to low scores every game - we will have to face chases where we need to score 8.5-9 RPO or bat first and score 185-200 if we're to win the next World T20.

Otherwise its like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I think bigger issue is lack of power-hitting in Babar Azam's game and the fact that he had no answer to the Sri Lankan bowler's yorker length. On the flip side Amin after growing in confidence was regularly finding the boundary, if he had batted longer he would have definitely upped the run rate.

Fakhar is suffering from a severe lack of form. Even the balls in his zone he is not timing. Kudos to him for still pushing on and getting starts. I guess this is where the navy training kicks in. His bad form will not continue always. He will get over it and then we will have the Fakhar of the CT who was baying for blood.
 
I think, today Fakhar scored 31 of 27, and Amin reached 31 in 28 or 29 balls - without looking at the numbers, I felt like Fakhar had to work twice for similar out put.

And, that inside out lofted cover drive probably last saw from MoYo, 12 years back.

Had to log in for this one.. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] comment reminded me of a famous moment when Anwar creamed first two balls he faced from Venkatish Bangalore and those were put away for 4's and Chappali said "The difference between Sohail and Anwar is clear in just few balls when in previous over (1st of inning) had slapped Javagal for 2 boundaries and Anwar just did it to Venkatish but did it without making it look like he had to do a lot of effort to hit those boundaries. That is due to the fact that Anwar is naturally far more gifted than Sohail"

Absolutely same today, THAT inside out was one of the best strokes by a Pakistani player in years to me, so much correct about it.
 
Umar Amin today looked a bit nervous. Will grow in confidence. But an all-leftie combo at the top doesn't really inspire confidence to be honest. We really need a decent right handed batter to partner Fakhar.
 
Umar Amin today looked a bit nervous. Will grow in confidence. But an all-leftie combo at the top doesn't really inspire confidence to be honest. We really need a decent right handed batter to partner Fakhar.

I’ve never understood this. What’s wrong with two lefties up top? Teams play two right handers why not two left handers?
 
I think bigger issue is lack of power-hitting in Babar Azam's game and the fact that he had no answer to the Sri Lankan bowler's yorker length. On the flip side Amin after growing in confidence was regularly finding the boundary, if he had batted longer he would have definitely upped the run rate.

Fakhar is suffering from a severe lack of form. Even the balls in his zone he is not timing. Kudos to him for still pushing on and getting starts. I guess this is where the navy training kicks in. His bad form will not continue always. He will get over it and then we will have the Fakhar of the CT who was baying for blood.

Fakhar is suffering from pressure and weight of expectations brought on by his brilliant innings against Ind in the CT. Just needs to bat and he will get back in form and deal with the pressure.
 
Had to log in for this one.. [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] comment reminded me of a famous moment when Anwar creamed first two balls he faced from Venkatish Bangalore and those were put away for 4's and Chappali said "The difference between Sohail and Anwar is clear in just few balls when in previous over (1st of inning) had slapped Javagal for 2 boundaries and Anwar just did it to Venkatish but did it without making it look like he had to do a lot of effort to hit those boundaries. That is due to the fact that Anwar is naturally far more gifted than Sohail"

Absolutely same today, THAT inside out was one of the best strokes by a Pakistani player in years to me, so much correct about it.

I see batsman first as how comfortable (effortless) they are playing shots around the park - that’s natural ability. Then coaches and mentors put practice and theory to develop techniques, Defense, shot selection, temperament etc. Most of current PAK batsman are not natural shot makers, rather they accumulate run in a workman style, even if they blast it’s like a butcher, which is painful to watch for someone watching Mazid-Zaheer partnership in that WC SF against WI.

I must have to admit that, despite all criticism, since MoYo, at full flow MoHa is the PAK batsman worth looking at the reply back. This guy Amin has that touch.
 
Being one of Amin's greatest critics, I can safely say that he earned his place in the T20 side (not sure about ODIs and tests). But given his past failures, I would avoid moving him to the middle order, and would utilize his bowling more.
 
I’ve never understood this. What’s wrong with two lefties up top? Teams play two right handers why not two left handers?

The idea is to bring as much diversity as possible in the order. A left right combination means at the start bowlers will need to change line of attack after every odd run. Besides, every team starts with their best 2 pacers who operates with their stock ball - incoming or out going doesn’t matter, but one particular ball that they can bowl effortlessly. Left right combo in LO means they’ll have to operate within strict wide margin and can’t peg both batsmen on one particular line. Combined all factors, I heard Benaud sometimes back telling that it’s almost 10-15 runs head start if you have a left right opening combo. Besides, if you open with same handed pair, it gives bowling side opportunity to attack tactically - like bringing an offie, SLAO darter or leggi, bowling with 7-2 field etc.

To answer your 2nd question - ideal is left - right combo, even better if one or both are good on back foot. After that, it’s better to have two lefti than 2 right handers, because most (75%+) batsmen are right hander - 2 right hander means hardly any diversity. Bowlers practice lot more at nets bowling to right handers, so it’s better to have 2 lefti than 2 right handers (obviously you have to use your own good judgement in these argument - if the pairs option are Sami/Shan or Grineedge/Haynes - in that case I'll likely say that I would prefer the right handed pair).

In an ideal world (which won’t happen ever) I would have said Amin, UAkmal, Babar, Hari, Malik should be 1-5 with UAkmal keeping and a open spot at 6. But, Sarfraz is Captain and a good one, so he has to play somewhere - that’s both for ODI & T20. For BD team as well, I have written many times that Tamim should bat at 3, with SS and Liton to open and Mushi Shakib batting at 4, 5.
 
Pretty impressive 4th debut for Umar Amin... I hope by the end of this decade he becomes a sound batsman, we have invested alot in him
 
Same old same old.

Amin is a gifted player without a shadow of a doubt. Still not convinced he is the ideal partner for Fakhar. Will take a long time to find a poor man's Chris Gayle the way we did with Sharjeel Khan
 
Pretty impressed with Amin, he is a classy left hander. A possible number 6 in test matches with Harris going to number 4.
 
I’ve never understood this. What’s wrong with two lefties up top? Teams play two right handers why not two left handers?

There is nothing wrong with two lefties at the top if your best two openers are left handers. Australia played Gilly and Hayden in ODI's and Hayden and Langer in tests. In spite of the changing the lines myth, each batsman is different and bowlers have to adjust their lines anyways when they are bowling to one versus the other.
 
Still not entirely convinced he is a t20 player, but he did play some lovely shots a la Yousuf. He has definitely bulked up since he first came on to the scene but needs to improve on his S/R early on if he wants to stay in the t20 side.

Could be a good back up option in ODIs, as he rotated the strike nicely. But the biggest question remains: has he overcome his mental weaknesses?
 
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