#UninstallHotstar: Indian Netizens slam streaming platform's show The Empire for glorifying Mughals

[Lonewarrior]

New Delhi: The streaming giant Disney+ Hotstar is in big trouble among netizens after the release of its brand new series 'The Empire'. Many viewers have protested against the glorification of Mughals in the show and called for other 'nationalists' to boycott the show and uninstall the Hotstar app. The hashtag #UninstallHotstar is currently ranking as one of the top 10 trends in India on Twitter.

Netizens believe that the show is glorifying Babur, a ruler they believe to be a barbarian scourge. Many are of the opinion that he founded the Mughal Empire that 'plundered, harassed, & massacred thousands of inhabitants of the lands they conquered in India.

https://zeenews.india.com/entertainment/web-series/uninstallhotstar-netizens-slam-streaming-platforms-new-show-the-empire-for-glorifying-mughals-2388976.html

 

[JaDed]

Should be boycotted for giving the entire story in the trailer and some lazyy acting.

 

[PakLFC]

No disputing that the Mughals were brutal often plundering their way to victory. They killed many innocents including the Sikh Guru's for the sake of power. They also greatly contributed to the entire culture, language and culinary of the entire region as well. The drama should show both sides of their rule. The problem is Hindu fascists take out their anger of Mughal rule on their Muslim's of today.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well most of these conquerors from central asia and arab were brutal murderers and bigots. So if a community in India is peacefully protesting their glorification in India, its not wrong.

The matter hasnt been helped by the utter nonsense statements of the director of the series.

 

[rhony]

Based on what I read, mughals expanded and consolidated power paving way for the India it is now. For all we know, India could have been 20 countries by now without a centralized power back then. They were brutal with the killings and conversions but they were also nation builders and a huge part of India's history

 

[pillionrider]

The matter hasnt been helped by the utter nonsense statements of the director of the series.

What did she say?

 

[street cricketer]

I thought the most objectionable bit about the trailer was watching Kunal Kapoor as Babur. Babur looked nothing like Kunal Kapoor.

Babur was of Mongol and Turkic origin and hailed from present day Uzbekistan. Ideally a hazara or in the absence of which, someone even from the north east could have played him for better authenticity.

I mean, this is one of the portraits of Babur..



And this is Kunal Kapoor



There's barely any resemblance.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Based on what I read, mughals expanded and consolidated power paving way for the India it is now. For all we know, India could have been 20 countries by now without a centralized power back then. They were brutal with the killings and conversions but they were also nation builders and a huge part of India's history

This is another of the lies that left leaning historians spread to white was a brutal, tyrannical, bigoted dynasty.

A number of empires existed before the mughals. Even after Aurangzeb, the Marathas had united most of the country.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What did she say?

My bad. Not mitakshara kumar but Kabir Khan said that Mughals were the nation builders of India.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No disputing that the Mughals were brutal often plundering their way to victory. They killed many innocents including the Sikh Guru's for the sake of power. They also greatly contributed to the entire culture, language and culinary of the entire region as well. The drama should show both sides of their rule. The problem is Hindu fascists take out their anger of Mughal rule on their Muslim's of today.

Their are consequences when you rebel against the King. If you rebel and you lose you should not expect to get ladoo's.

Also all Kings, whether their were Muslim or Hindu or Christian had to be violent to get the throne or keep the throne.

 

[street cricketer]

Their are consequences when you rebel against the King. If you rebel and you lose you should not expect to get ladoo's.

Also all Kings, whether their were Muslim or Hindu or Christian had to be violent to get the throne or keep the throne.

Hopefully there's no sikh in the forum reading this!

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Based on what I read, mughals expanded and consolidated power paving way for the India it is now. For all we know, India could have been 20 countries by now without a centralized power back then. They were brutal with the killings and conversions but they were also nation builders and a huge part of India's history

Yet their heartland of their empire, UP was only like 15% Muslim at the time of partition. If they wanted to force conversions their would not be one Hindu left in UP today.

Regions which were Muslim majority like Kashmir, West Punjab, Sindh etc, were Muslim majority centuries before the Mughals ever came to the subcontinent.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Hopefully there's no sikh in the forum reading this!

Mughal Kings killed their own brothers for the throne. They would kill any Muslim who rebelled against them. Why should Sikh Gurus be treated any different? It was not personal.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Well most of these conquerors from central asia and arab were brutal murderers and bigots. So if a community in India is peacefully protesting their glorification in India, its not wrong.

The matter hasnt been helped by the utter nonsense statements of the director of the series.

Same for Indian rulers. One of the biggest massacres in Indian history was carried by the Maratha empire on bengalis

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I thought the most objectionable bit about the trailer was watching Kunal Kapoor as Babur. Babur looked nothing like Kunal Kapoor.

Babur was of Mongol and Turkic origin and hailed from present day Uzbekistan. Ideally a hazara or in the absence of which, someone even from the north east could have played him for better authenticity.

I mean, this is one of the portraits of Babur..

View attachment 111533

And this is Kunal Kapoor

View attachment 111534

There's barely any resemblance.

Agree with this. Kunal Kapoor could play Mughal Kings after Akbar. But both Babur and Humayun had more Mongoloid features, and someone from North East India could have played made the character look more authentic.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

This is another of the lies that left leaning historians spread to white was a brutal, tyrannical, bigoted dynasty.

A number of empires existed before the mughals. Even after Aurangzeb, the Marathas had united most of the country.

Lol Marathas uniting country. They had control over most of the country (not directly btw) for all but 5-6 years. If you call that uniting then haha

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Kind of crazy when you think about it. Babar couldn’t get his dream kingdom of Samarkand. Then he wanted Kabul but failed multiple times. As a last resort he walked into India and took it with ease.. really shows standing of Indian empires of the time.

The funniest thing is he defeated another Muslim empire to gain control. So I don’t even get why Bjp ppl hate him so much. He beat another Muslim empire.

 

[street cricketer]

Mughal Kings killed their own brothers for the throne. They would kill any Muslim who rebelled against them. Why should Sikh Gurus be treated any different? It was not personal.

The Sikh gurus took up arms to protect themselves against forced conversions. Would you also say the same for the Kashmiris rebelling against the Indian state?

I disagree with the common right wing motion that muslim kings forcefully converted "all" hindus and buddhists to muslims. But trampling of other religious rights and human rights was common place in those eras. We think the BJP tramples upon the rights of muslims but the muslim empires of the past would make Modi look benevolent in comparison. Human rights wasn't really a thing in those days.

Was the naked fakir, Sarmad, also executed because he "rebelled" against the emperor? By being naked lol?

 

[street cricketer]

Religious persecution was a common place in those days when human rights wasn't even a thing. I mean when religious persecution still happens in the 21st century, it's dumb to believe that there was no religious persecution in the 14th and 15th century.

It is only our religious bias that makes us believe religious persecution didn't take place then.

 

[street cricketer]

Religious persecution was a common place in those days when human rights wasn't even a thing. I mean when religious persecution still happens in the 21st century, it's dumb to believe that there was no religious persecution in the 14th and 15th century.

It is only our religious bias that makes us believe religious persecution didn't take place then.

P.S.: This also holds true for the hindu Dogra kings who persecuted their muslim subjects in Kashmir.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Kind of crazy when you think about it. Babar couldn’t get his dream kingdom of Samarkand. Then he wanted Kabul but failed multiple times. As a last resort he walked into India and took it with ease.. really shows standing of Indian empires of the time.

The funniest thing is he defeated another Muslim empire to gain control. So I don’t even get why Bjp ppl hate him so much. He beat another Muslim empire.

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

2 - A lot of the rank and file Hindutva supporters dont know that the various Delhi and Deccan Sultanates were ruling the majority of subcontinent for 300 years before the Mughals came to the subcontinent.

3 - They view the Mughals as synonymous with all Muslims empires. And a way to express hatred for them is to just hate the Mughals.

 

[pillionrider]

My bad. Not mitakshara kumar but Kabir Khan said that Mughals were the nation builders of India.

Well if some people like to believe that Savarkar was Veer and the RSS were instrumental in freedom from the British, nothing wrong with this Khan guy having a soft spot for the Mughals.

All empires were selfish and only interested in their personal glory and gains. Whether Hindu or Muslim. I don't understand why you'd want to choose one over the other just based on religion. Being fond or respectful of a dynasty because of the art they left behind is a different matter. None of them cared about you or your religion being left intact.

 

[pillionrider]

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

This is an extremely ignorant statement and limited to an understanding of North India.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The Sikh gurus took up arms to protect themselves against forced conversions. Would you also say the same for the Kashmiris rebelling against the Indian state?

The values in 2021 are different than they were 500 years ago.

The first Guru that was executed was because he backed Janghair' son Khusrau Mirza in a rebellion against him. That son was blinded. If he blinded his own son, what exactly should he have done with the Guru?

Human rights wasn't really a thing in those days.

Agreed.

Was the naked fakir, Sarmad, also executed because he "rebelled" against the emperor? By being naked lol?

He was an ally of Dara Shikoh. What do you think Dara Shikoh would have done had he won the throne? Would Aurangzeb, or his sons be spared? The hardcore allies of Aurangzeb?

 

[Itachi]

Mughals were defeated by us (ahom kingdom then) except on one occasion. So it makes logical sense that they will be seen as "invaders" on that perspective.

 

[Itachi]

The values in 2021 are different than they were 500 years ago.

Does it apply to Quran too?

 

[pillionrider]

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

This is an extremely ignorant statement and limited to an understanding of North India.

And even if you keep things North Indian, you could argue perhaps only with respect to architecture and buildings. Cuisine and art - you have a very limited understanding of India if you think that what's surviving in North India in these areas are Mughal influenced.

Dunno about clothes as I've only seen pants, shirt, sari, churidar wearing North Indians

Maybe there's more influence in the hinterlands of N India. Or perhaps the churidar comes from wherever the Mughals originally came from.

One thing I've always wondered about is the thing of conservative Rajput women draping a scarf or veil over their heads. Maybe that's influenced by the Mughals or maybe the Mughals took that from the Rajputs and exported it further west

 

[Itachi]

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

Not to us. They never ruled us in the first place.

 

[street cricketer]

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

I sometimes feel like a seperate terminology should exist just to define the regions of Pakistan, north India and Bangladesh. South India often gets clubbed into this region when the historical, cultural and linguistic divide is actually between Pak, north India and Bangladesh; and south India. It's only religion that's the differentiating factor.

I mean most of the scripts of south east asian countries like Thai script, Cambodian, Indonesian, etc., are all derived from south indian origin kingdoms. The sphere of influence of the north Indian hindu and muslim empires was largely between Afghanistan in the west and Bangladesh in the east. The sphere of influence of south indian kingdoms was not north wards but actually spread further south and eastwards to Sri Lanka and south east asia. So a lot of Indians and Pakistanis tend to assume that the kingdoms of south India was limited to the southern most part of the subcontinent. Why do you think most of the ancient temples in Cambodia and Indonesia resemble the architecture of the south indian temples?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is an extremely ignorant statement and limited to an understanding of North India.

Yes my response was based on North India, and I would include West Punjab and Sindh in that region.

Thats where the majority of population lives right? In the subcontinent they are the majority, and their culture is dominant. Usually when people talk about the culture of a country, they are talking about the culture of the majority not the minority.

 

[street cricketer]

The values in 2021 are different than they were 500 years ago.

The first Guru that was executed was because he backed Janghair' son Khusrau Mirza in a rebellion against him. That son was blinded. If he blinded his own son, what exactly should he have done with the Guru?




Agreed.



He was an ally of Dara Shikoh. What do you think Dara Shikoh would have done had he won the throne? Would Aurangzeb, or his sons be spared? The hardcore allies of Aurangzeb?

What do you mean he was an "ally"? Did he have his own army? He was a naked saint f f s

It's silly to ignore the elephant in the room, the religious aspect of it. I mean Sarmad (and most of the Sikh gurus) were asked to recite the kalima, failing which they were executed.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

This is an extremely ignorant statement and limited to an understanding of North India.

To be fair MOST of the hatred does come from North Indians

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Does it apply to Quran too?

Yes people should interpret Quran or any religion based on values of today. Some Muslim groups like Salafi's believe that the values should remain exactly how they were in the 7th century. However others dont.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

What do you mean he was an "ally"? Did he have his own army? He was a naked saint f f s

It's silly to ignore the elephant in the room, the religious aspect of it. I mean Sarmad (and most of the Sikh gurus) were asked to recite the kalima, failing which they were executed.

Usually that was done to humiliate them. Not because they actually wanted them to convert.

What do you mean he was an "ally"? Did he have his own army? He was a naked saint f f s

Dara Shikoh had invited him to court. He became his disciple, and Sarmad predicted he would be King. Alot of other people could have been influenced by him as well.

If you can kill your own brother and nephews to secure the throne, then its not hard to take his life as well. Someone who can incite people against your rule.

 

[Itachi]

.

Thats where the majority of population lives right? In the subcontinent they are the majority, and their culture is dominant. Usually when people talk about the culture of a country, they are talking about the culture of the majority not the minority.

That's not how it works in India. Culture varies a lot from state to state regardless how much is the population.

India doesn't have a "majority" culture in the first place due to this reason.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I sometimes feel like a seperate terminology should exist just to define the regions of Pakistan, north India and Bangladesh. South India often gets clubbed into this region when the historical, cultural and linguistic divide is actually between Pak, north India and Bangladesh; and south India. It's only religion that's the differentiating factor.

Yes I should have clarified I was talking about North India, and I would include West Punjab and Sindh in that region.

When you are the minority, like South Indians, or Pakistanis from Baluchistan or parts of KPK, your culture often gets overlooked by outsiders, as they associate the culture of the country with the majority group.

 

[street cricketer]

Usually that was done to humiliate them. Not because they actually wanted them to convert.

Sure enough

Do you think they would have been pardoned if they had converted?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That's not how it works in India. Culture varies a lot from state to state regardless how much is the population.

India doesn't have a "majority" culture in the first place due to this reason.

Usually when people talk about the culture of a country, they are talking about the culture of the majority not the minority.

When I said this I should have mentioned to "outsiders". Most people outside India associate the culture of India with the North as they are the majority. They dont think of Nagaland when they think of India.

 

[pillionrider]

To be fair MOST of the hatred does come from North Indians

My state Karnataka has BJP in power. There are pockets in it that are extremely anti-Muslim but yeah for the most part, North Indian Hindu bias vs Muslims compared to rest of India bias vs Muslims is different levels.

 

[pillionrider]

Yes my response was based on North India, and I would include West Punjab and Sindh in that region.

Thats where the majority of population lives right? In the subcontinent they are the majority, and their culture is dominant. Usually when people talk about the culture of a country, they are talking about the culture of the majority not the minority.

You're right about majority population being North Indian. UP is a critical state. Contribute most MPs to the government but are severely disproportionate in their contribution to anything useful to the country.

If you take the land mass of the rest of India, it's probably more than the North. Not our fault if some regions decided to breed like rabbits. Guess we have to suffer the consequences.

But my original point about culture and influence on art and other areas stands. You should do a tour of the South to have your breath taken away if you're into art.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Sure enough

Do you think they would have been pardoned if they had converted?

Yes. But then they would live in disgrace for the rest of their life. Death would be a better option.

 

[MenInG]

To be fair MOST of the hatred does come from North Indians

Is it because they were most effected by the partition?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Their are consequences when you rebel against the King. If you rebel and you lose you should not expect to get ladoo's.

Also all Kings, whether their were Muslim or Hindu or Christian had to be violent to get the throne or keep the throne.

Yes and there are consequences of being a brutal, third rate, tyrannical, bigoted king.

His dynastic reign is over and he will not get any respect from the people he oppressed.

 

[Itachi]

Is it because they were most effected by the partition?

Yes.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yes and there are consequences of being a brutal, third rate, tyrannical, bigoted king.

His dynastic reign is over and he will not get any respect from the people he oppressed.

Are you sure? Ever heard of the film Mughal-e-Azam? This "brutal, third rate, tyrannical, bigoted king" was Prince Salim.

 

[cricketjoshila]

For a few reasons:

1 - Sheer jealousy. The Mughal empire cultural contributions are unmatched by any other empire in the subcontinent. From cuisine, architecture, clothing, language, etc was created or significantly influenced by them.

2 - A lot of the rank and file Hindutva supporters dont know that the various Delhi and Deccan Sultanates were ruling the majority of subcontinent for 300 years before the Mughals came to the subcontinent.

3 - They view the Mughals as synonymous with all Muslims empires. And a way to express hatred for them is to just hate the Mughals.

1. Jealousy? Lol. Indian subcontinent had great architecture even before the muslim invaders came. They destroyed many great temples. If another bigoted anti muslim breaker had a 300 year empire in India, muslim architecture would have been washed out. I dont see non muslims following any mughal or muslim culture. Most of the languages that are used by Indians has its root in sanskrit or Tamil.

So no, there is no jealousy. The muslim invaders were destroyers of temples, Universities and looters. They were religious bigots who were interested in building their own luxurious buildings for their comfort or ego.

They are hated for trying to destroy a vibrant society and culture.

2. All this applies to all muslim rulers, not just Mughals. Mughals were only the longest ruling ones.

3. The hatred is for all such invaders. Muslims or British alike. Just that christians dont try to defend the British colonial invaders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Are you sure? Ever heard of the film Mughal-e-Azam? This "brutal, third rate, tyrannical, bigoted king" was Prince Salim.

Bollywood and left academia has for decades tried to white wash these invaders. It was a concerted effort by the nehru family to white wash all the history of the muslim invaders. Make only the brits villians.Stop or at least lessen the historical significance of non muslim empires.

The second attempt was to portray all industrialists as cruel, profit making tyrants and portray socialist communist labour union leaders as heroes.

The third was to project land owners as cruel tyrannical villains who kill people, rape women etc.

Bollywood was one of the tools to spread this propoganda.

 

[OldWarHorse]

Well thats nothing unexpected, even for the makers Iam sure. We are an insecure bunch. Its history, it is what it is. Plunder and loot are a part of that. Meh, we cant move on

Never heard of any crying over depictions of Vikings or Romans or even by the Latins over the Barbarians.

 

[Ashmal]

Well most of these conquerors from central asia and arab were brutal murderers and bigots. So if a community in India is peacefully protesting their glorification in India, its not wrong.

The matter hasnt been helped by the utter nonsense statements of the director of the series.

So only Mughals were brutal murderers....others like Marathas, Rajputs and Ranjit Singh were all saints...cool story

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Bollywood and left academia has for decades tried to white wash these invaders. It was a concerted effort by the nehru family to white wash all the history of the muslim invaders. Make only the brits villians.Stop or at least lessen the historical significance of non muslim empires.

The second attempt was to portray all industrialists as cruel, profit making tyrants and portray socialist communist labour union leaders as heroes.

The third was to project land owners as cruel tyrannical villains who kill people, rape women etc.

Bollywood was one of the tools to spread this propoganda.

What do you have to say about Marathas who killed millions of Bengali’s in cold blood

 

[pillionrider]

What do you have to say about Marathas who killed millions of Bengali’s in cold blood

Don't ask negative questions

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

So no, there is no jealousy. The muslim invaders were destroyers of temples, Universities and looters. They were religious bigots who were interested in building their own luxurious buildings for their comfort or ego.

Did Hindu Kings not live in luxury? Hindu Kings built their palaces for whose comfort? Making a portion of Hindus untouchables was not religious bigotry?

1. Jealousy? Lol. Indian subcontinent had great architecture even before the muslim invaders came. They destroyed many great temples. If another bigoted anti muslim breaker had a 300 year empire in India, muslim architecture would have been washed out. I dont see non muslims following any mughal or muslim culture. Most of the languages that are used by Indians has its root in sanskrit or Tamil.

Architecture - The subcontinent might have great architecture before, but right now in North India the top tier architecture was built by Muslims.

Clothing - Shalwar Kameez was brought to the subcontinent by Muslims. Women all over the subcontinent wear it now. Sherwani was created by Muslims.

Cuisine - Too many list dishes to list. So i will just add my favorites. Nihari, Biryani, Haleem, Falooda, Sheer khurma, Keema, Seekh kebab, etc were all brought or created by Muslims.

Language - Hindi/Urdu did indeed develop from Sanskrit. However the language spoken today is not mutually intelligible with how it was spoken before Muslims came. Kind of how like Old English and Modern English are two separate languages, because English added so many words from French. 0% of Indians can speak Hindi without using Persian words.

2. All this applies to all muslim rulers, not just Mughals. Mughals were only the longest ruling ones.

Right which is why when Hindutva supporters say they hate foreign invaders is nonsense. They just hate Muslims. As plenty of Muslim dynasties like Gujarat Sultanate, Ahmednagar Sultanate, were formed by local Muslims.

Not to mention Hindutva supporters have no hate for all the foreign invaders who settled in the subcontinent and became Hindu.

3. The hatred is for all such invaders. Muslims or British alike. Just that christians dont try to defend the British colonial invaders.

Because unlike the British whose home was Britian, the Muslim "invaders" home was the subcontinent. They were born and bred in the subcontinent. They are buried in its soil. They mixed their blood with the locals.

Let me tell you why you really hate them.
Akbar marries Hindu women = Muslim Jahangir
Jahangir marries Hindu women = Muslim Shah Jahan

Had they raised their children Hindu you would never call them invaders. Every foreign invader who came to the subcontinent before eventually adopted the local religion. Mughals and and various Muslim dynasties did not. That is the only reason for the hate for them.

 

[Itachi]

Did Hindu Kings not live in luxury? Hindu Kings built their palaces for whose comfort? Making a portion of Hindus untouchables was not religious bigotry?



Architecture - The subcontinent might have great architecture before, but right now in North India the top tier architecture was built by Muslims.

Clothing - Shalwar Kameez was brought to the subcontinent by Muslims. Women all over the subcontinent wear it now. Sherwani was created by Muslims.

Cuisine - Too many list dishes to list. So i will just add my favorites. Nihari, Biryani, Haleem, Falooda, Sheer khurma, Keema, Seekh kebab, etc were all brought or created by Muslims.

Language - Hindi/Urdu did indeed develop from Sanskrit. However the language spoken today is not mutually intelligible with how it was spoken before Muslims came. Kind of how like Old English and Modern English are two separate languages, because English added so many words from French. 0% of Indians can speak Hindi without using Persian words.



Right which is why when Hindutva supporters say they hate foreign invaders is nonsense. They just hate Muslims. As plenty of Muslim dynasties like Gujarat Sultanate, Ahmednagar Sultanate, were formed by local Muslims.

Not to mention Hindutva supporters have no hate for all the foreign invaders who settled in the subcontinent and became Hindu.



Because unlike the British whose home was Britian, the Muslim "invaders" home was the subcontinent. They were born and bred in the subcontinent. They are buried in its soil. They mixed their blood with the locals.

Let me tell you why you really hate them.
Akbar marries Hindu women = Muslim Jahangir
Jahangir marries Hindu women = Muslim Shah Jahan

Had they raised their children Hindu you would never call them invaders. Every foreign invader who came to the subcontinent before eventually adopted the local religion. Mughals and and various Muslim dynasties did not. That is the only reason for the hate for them.

Your arguments can be made for a few states in North India only. So what I want to say is, mention it before hand.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

In all major "Muslim Mughals" vs "Hindu" Indian battles; there were a lot of Muslim rulers who were in alliance with major Hindu Armies and also a lot of Hindu Rajas/Tribes fought besides Muslim Mughals against other Hindus.

Later when the English came to India, the same thing happened. Something ridiculously similar also happened in Al Andalucia, you literally had a certain "Muslims" taifa vs a "Christians" city fighting each other one summer and the next summer they were allies against someone from North or South.

Political alliances always play a key role in all wars.

Of course, neo right wingers of both sides find it very easy to push their respective "us" vs "them" ignorant agendas to suit their hateful narratives.

( PS: To put things into perspective, soon USA and Afghan Taliban might become allies right before our eyes )

 

[Rajdeep]

I like what I see in present India where people are much more aware of their history. This is the India I have always dreamt off. No tv shows glorifying bigoted empires of the past must be allowed on Indian TV screens..simple.

Growing up in 90s (under congress/Ghandi rule) shows like Tippu Sultan were forced upon our throat. Now with people more aware of history, imagine Tippu Sultan in Indian screens now...it will taken down immidiately without any compromise and rightly so.

 

[Zaz]

Well done to hotstar for potraying something like this even tho the series will be flawed

Its high time the mughals were more celebrated by the hindus in how they united princely states and gave rise to a vibrant culture, lovely cuisine wonderful architecture and way of governance etc etc

India wouldnt be what it is today without their huge positive contribution

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I like what I see in present India where people are much more aware of their history. This is the India I have always dreamt off. No tv shows glorifying bigoted empires of the past must be allowed on Indian TV screens..simple.

Growing up in 90s (under congress/Ghandi rule) shows like Tippu Sultan were forced upon our throat. Now with people more aware of history, imagine Tippu Sultan in Indian screens now...it will taken down immidiately without any compromise and rightly so.

Tipu Sultan is a hero to almost 180-200 million population of Muslims living in India alone.

People can always switch off TV or change channel!

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I like what I see in present India where people are much more aware of their history. This is the India I have always dreamt off. No tv shows glorifying bigoted empires of the past must be allowed on Indian TV screens..simple.

Growing up in 90s (under congress/Ghandi rule) shows like Tippu Sultan were forced upon our throat. Now with people more aware of history, imagine Tippu Sultan in Indian screens now...it will taken down immidiately without any compromise and rightly so.

Well this show is airing. 8 episodes were released.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Mughals fought primarily against other Muslims. They defeated the following kingdoms:

Muslim Lodi Empire - who they took the throne from initially
Muslim Sur Empire
Muslim Bengal Sultanate
Muslim Malwa Sultanate
Muslim Gujarat Sultanate
Muslim Shah Mir dynasty of Kashmir
Muslim Ahmednagar Sultanate
Muslim Bijapur Sultanate
Muslim Golconda Sultanate

Its not like their was this great Hindu Kingdom that the Mughals took the throne from, which is why they RW Hindus hate the Mughals. Nor do they like any of the other Muslim Kingdoms who lost to the Mughals. Just pure hatred for Muslims.

 

[Rajdeep]

Well this show is airing. 8 episodes were released.

True but good to see people are protesting and uninstalling Hotstar. This awareness was missing before (in Congress/Ghandi era) where people used to meekly accept every TV show. There is a reason this hastag was trending in India non stop.

And this is not the only show. There were also protests against Patalok series, Padmavati movie, Khadims ad etc etc. Basically this is the legacy of present BJP govt where any show against hindus wont be tolerated. Not anymore.

I understand why Hotstar is not removing the show though bcoz lots of money being spend in creating a web series. So business wise they are right but hopefully they will keep the content in mind from next time as well.

 

[Zaz]

True but good to see people are protesting and uninstalling Hotstar. This awareness was missing before (in Congress/Ghandi era) where people used to meekly accept every TV show. There is a reason this hastag was trending in India non stop.

And this is not the only show. There were also protests against Patalok series, Padmavati movie, Khadims ad etc etc. Basically this is the legacy of present BJP govt where any show against hindus wont be tolerated. Not anymore.

I understand why Hotstar is not removing the show though bcoz lots of money being spend in creating a web series. So business wise they are right but hopefully they will keep the content in mind from next time as well.

How is this a show against hindus?

 

[OldWarHorse]

LOL... It has Premier League and IPL (starting in two weeks' time) for 5$ a year along with all these stupid shows. Uninstalling the app?! Cmon who are they kidding??

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I like what I see in present India where people are much more aware of their history. This is the India I have always dreamt off. No tv shows glorifying bigoted empires of the past must be allowed on Indian TV screens..simple.

Growing up in 90s (under congress/Ghandi rule) shows like Tippu Sultan were forced upon our throat. Now with people more aware of history, imagine Tippu Sultan in Indian screens now...it will taken down immidiately without any compromise and rightly so.

No. This just proves that India is going in the backward direction because people during those times were both tolerant and open minded. You can thank Modi and his jaahil bhakhts for the current situation. Guys like you run away from this country for a better living but you want Indians to keep living in the past.

 

[Rajdeep]

No. This just proves that India is going in the backward direction because people during those times were both tolerant and open minded. You can thank Modi and his jaahil bhakhts for the current situation. Guys like you run away from this country for a better living but you want Indians to keep living in the past.

Giving airtime to bigoted rulers who conquered and plundered millions of Indians is not a sign of tolerance and open mindness. The fact that India is progressing in every possible field (olympics recent example) shows that we definitely not living in past but progressing for better future. Its just that people are more aware of the history and more vocal about it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well thats nothing unexpected, even for the makers Iam sure. We are an insecure bunch. Its history, it is what it is. Plunder and loot are a part of that. Meh, we cant move on

Never heard of any crying over depictions of Vikings or Romans or even by the Latins over the Barbarians.

British depicted as looting colonial tyrants is fine, but calling muslim invaders the same is a sign of insecurity?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So only Mughals were brutal murderers....others like Marathas, Rajputs and Ranjit Singh were all saints...cool story

You are free to portrait Marathas or Ranjit singh any which way you want.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Tipu Sultan is a hero to almost 180-200 million population of Muslims living in India alone.

People can always switch off TV or change channel!

Tipu sultan is a villain to a billion non muslims. India is not a islamic country that muslim bigots will be honoured here. Pakistanis can keep hero worshipping tipu sultan. In India he will be treated with utter contempt and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Congress learnt the hard way, how celebrating tipu can cause loss of power.

You can always not read news about India.

 

[OldWarHorse]

British depicted as looting colonial tyrants is fine, but calling muslim invaders the same is a sign of insecurity?

Who said about calling anyone anything? Its about cancel culture taking over. Its so far in the past, move on.

Enjoy the show if its worth it or otherwise dont. It reeks of insecurity if we are still affected by it(as the people complaining about it I believe are), its history it happens

 

[KB]

Benedetto Croce, an Italian philosopher, once wrote “all history is contemporary history.” In the case of Indian history, we can certainly see how the concerns of today have shaped the writing of the past. Historians in India, who have tended to be leftists, have generally downplayed the role of religion in their interpretations of the past. Many have tended to operate under Nehruvian assumptions of ‘the essential unity of India’ and have been keen to underscore, understandably, the importance of pluralism and harmony. This has meant that they look at the past under a very particular prism (and not that they intentionally distort history).

Accepting this, though, does not mean we should abandon nuance and adopt Hindu nationalist readings of the past which tend to simplify religious motivations. Many points can be made in this regard, but I will restrict myself to two points here.

First, we should remember the divisions that ran along lines of class and blood. In Tarikh-i Firoz Shahi by Ziauddin Barani (1285–1357), a history of India’s Delhi Sultanate in the thirteenth century, there is an assertion of superiority of Muslims from the outside of India against those in India whether Muslim or not. There remained - right down to the days of Sir Sayyid - a tiny elite of Muslims in India who sought to be distinguished from the commoners by virtue of their aristocratic 'pedigree'. There was also a particular culture associated with the Mughal court that transcended a simple Hindu/Muslim divide. In the words of historian John Richards:

“The essential prerequisite for all nobles was acceptance of a notion of aristocratic and military honour compatible with dignified personal subordination to the person of the emperor, as symbolised in the ritual at court. Personal lineage, and martial honour thus came to be identified with acceptance of discipline and service to a wider goal and a larger structure for both Muslim and Hindu warrior aristocrats. In addition to such qualities as devotion, loyalty, and courage…full acceptance within the system demanded assimilation to the polish and sophistication of Indo-Persian courtly culture and etiquette in circumstances ranging from the hunting camp to the full panoply of a ceremonial royal audience.”

Secondly, we should be careful to read back contemporary understandings of religion to a previous period. A masterful recent work is that of Azfar Moin’s, The Millennial Sovereign, that deals with the Mughal period. Moin recreates a world of divination, of belief in the occult powers of numbers and letters, a world of dream interpretation and astrological calculations. A time when rulers consulted astrologers, soothsayers, and holy men associated with certain shrines. A striking example is provided with Humayun. We are told that he was guided by cosmological principles. That he arranged his imperial administration according to an augury of names, that the schedule of his court was based on “astral auspiciousness” - the positions of the planets. That the colour of his attire on any day depended on what planet the day was linked to. He divided his court into twelve ranks, with the number twelve chosen because “of its far-reaching cosmological and scriptural importance.” In sum, by uncovering the cultural foundations of Mughal political authority he makes the case that Mughal sovereignty rested not on doctrinal Islam but was in fact shaped by Sufi, millennial and cosmic motifs.

As a concluding remark, for those keen to study history, it is useful to ask with what spirit that study is to be undertaken. Moral judgements are easy to make. Understanding is rather harder but is what those genuinely interested in history (rather than ideology) should be aiming for.

 

[Ashmal]

You are free to portrait Marathas or Ranjit singh any which way you want.

What's your opinion about them....

Are terms like bigot and murderers only limited to Muslim rulers.

What about the above dynasties who have also killed and raped thousands....

 

[pillionrider]

True but good to see people are protesting and uninstalling Hotstar. This awareness was missing before (in Congress/Ghandi era) where people used to meekly accept every TV show.

Is there any particular reason you spell Gandhi as Ghandi. Does it mean something in any particular North Indian language? Or are you simply a little uneducated

I understand why Hotstar is not removing the show though bcoz lots of money being spend in creating a web series. So business wise they are right but hopefully they will keep the content in mind from next time as well.

So you already conceded defeat

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What's your opinion about them....

Are terms like bigot and murderers only limited to Muslim rulers.

What about the above dynasties who have also killed and raped thousands....

We have established in many threads that they are only limited to muslims.

He will forgive Hindu rapists in a heartbeat

 

[cricketjoshila]

Did Hindu Kings not live in luxury? Hindu Kings built their palaces for whose comfort? Making a portion of Hindus untouchables was not religious bigotry?



Architecture - The subcontinent might have great architecture before, but right now in North India the top tier architecture was built by Muslims.

Clothing - Shalwar Kameez was brought to the subcontinent by Muslims. Women all over the subcontinent wear it now. Sherwani was created by Muslims.

Cuisine - Too many list dishes to list. So i will just add my favorites. Nihari, Biryani, Haleem, Falooda, Sheer khurma, Keema, Seekh kebab, etc were all brought or created by Muslims.

Language - Hindi/Urdu did indeed develop from Sanskrit. However the language spoken today is not mutually intelligible with how it was spoken before Muslims came. Kind of how like Old English and Modern English are two separate languages, because English added so many words from French. 0% of Indians can speak Hindi without using Persian words.



Right which is why when Hindutva supporters say they hate foreign invaders is nonsense. They just hate Muslims. As plenty of Muslim dynasties like Gujarat Sultanate, Ahmednagar Sultanate, were formed by local Muslims.

Not to mention Hindutva supporters have no hate for all the foreign invaders who settled in the subcontinent and became Hindu.



Because unlike the British whose home was Britian, the Muslim "invaders" home was the subcontinent. They were born and bred in the subcontinent. They are buried in its soil. They mixed their blood with the locals.

Let me tell you why you really hate them.
Akbar marries Hindu women = Muslim Jahangir
Jahangir marries Hindu women = Muslim Shah Jahan

Had they raised their children Hindu you would never call them invaders. Every foreign invader who came to the subcontinent before eventually adopted the local religion. Mughals and and various Muslim dynasties did not. That is the only reason for the hate for them.

Hindu kings didn't come from outside to loot.

Architecture: Destroying buildings of the natives isn't going to make your buildings anyone's favourite.

Salwar Kameez: Its only one of the many outfits worn by non muslims. Saree and Western outfits will be the most common ones.

Cuisine: Biryani, kebab etc are not usual food of most non muslim families.

Language: You yourself have said that Hindi came from Sanskrit.

Hatred is for foreigners who invaded and looted. Destroyed places of religion and were tyrannical and bigoted. Muslim invaders and European ones fit the bill and are hence hated.

The muslim invaders were foreigners and remained so. They forced upon their religion. Tried to destroy the native religion, culture and language. Kept their foreign language, culture and religion until the last day and tried their best to make the native culture extinct.

Those who married them were converted.

As you have accepted, the muslim invaders kept their foreign language, culture and religion while tried to destroy the native culture, religion and persecuted the natives. Hence they are hated as foreign invaders.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What's your opinion about them....

Are terms like bigot and murderers only limited to Muslim rulers.

What about the above dynasties who have also killed and raped thousands....

Same goes for the European invaders.

Islam came to India long before the invaders. It came via arab traders. South Western coast of India had a goon numbers of followers of islam. No one calls these arab traders murderers or bigots.

 

[pillionrider]

LOL... It has Premier League and IPL (starting in two weeks' time) for 5$ a year along with all these stupid shows. Uninstalling the app?! Cmon who are they kidding??

These guys like their leader are full of ****. I'd have respected them more if they were truly hardcore. They are the first to be bought and sold. The biggest beef exporters in India are businesses that BJP leaders directly or indirectly own. Such is their ethics and principles.

It reminds me of when all these guys were canceling Aamir Khan. Then Dangal happened and it was his biggest hit ever )

 

[Rajdeep]

Is there any particular reason you spell Gandhi as Ghandi. Does it mean something in any particular North Indian language? Or are you simply a little uneducated

Indira Nehru married to Feroze Jahangir Ghandi who a Parsee. Jawaharlal Nehru asked Feroze to change his surname from Ghandi to Gandhi in order to marry Indira. So Gandhi is an adopted surname....they are actually Nehru/Ghandi family. Oh and Vadra too.

 

[pillionrider]

Indira Nehru married to Feroze Jahangir Ghandi who a Parsee. Jawaharlal Nehru asked Feroze to change his surname from Ghandi to Gandhi in order to marry Indira. So Gandhi is an adopted surname....they are actually Nehru/Ghandi family. Oh and Vadra too.

Oh that Ghandy. Not the Gandhi whom the RSS murdered. I see.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Hindu kings didn't come from outside to loot.

Please define what you mean by coming from outside.

When some Hindu rulers shattered the temples of other Hindus, raped and killed them was that coming from "outside" too in your eyes?

 

[street cricketer]

I think we should stop asking hindus and muslims to take pride in each other's kings. Asking a hindu to take pride in the muslim empires is like asking a Kashmiri muslim to take pride in the Dogra empire or the Punjabi muslim to take pride in the Sikh empire. It's pointless really if we're being honest. Our people are divided based on religion and one's hero is always going to be another's villain because of the way things happened in the history of the subcontinent. Imagine Paul from your neighbourhood asking you to take pride in the British empire just because they were christians, that would be weird.

What we should do though is to understand that it's natural for people to take pride in kings belonging to their own religion (however violent they may have been) and not discriminate people in the present based on what may have happened in the past.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think we should stop asking hindus and muslims to take pride in each other's kings. Asking a hindu to take pride in the muslim empires is like asking a Kashmiri muslim to take pride in the Dogra empire or the Punjabi muslim to take pride in the Sikh empire. It's pointless really if we're being honest. Our people are divided based on religion and one's hero is always going to be another's villain because of the way things happened in the history of the subcontinent. Imagine Paul from your neighbourhood asking you to take pride in the British empire just because they were christians, that would be weird.

What we should do though is to understand that it's natural for people to take pride in kings belonging to their own religion (however violent they may have been) and not discriminate people in the present based on what may have happened in the past.

Nobody is asking anyone to take pride..but whitewashing the crimes of one and calling the other outsiders because they dont share your religion is wrong.

There was no real thing as a united India. To the people being killed, everyone from another area was an outsider no matter their religion.