Unpopular opinion: Sahibzada Farhan's Asia Cup was not an improvement over RizBar's methods

[RizwanT20Champ]

After my discussion with @BouncerGuy I wanted to discuss this with others. In my opinion we conflate sixes hit with intent and aggression even if the other 5 balls in the over are dots. If we look at Farhan's stats fom Asia Cup:

7 matches: 217 runs @ 31, SR 116 with 2 50s.

While he hit Bhumrah for sixes his overall SR was poor or at least not what we were promised after the removal of RizBar.

For comparison this was Rizwan's Asia Cup in 2022 where he was criticized heavily (final match criticism was justified and I say that as a Rizwan fan):

6 matches: 281 runs @ 56, SR 117 with 3 50s (big difference was he had a match winning knock vs India as well whereas both of Farhan's were in losing causes).

I am not saying Rizwan's Asia Cup was perfect. I just want to question why Farhan's performance this Asia Cup is hailed with his SR 116? Have our standards fallen so much that we are happy with sixes against a bowler?
@BouncerGuy @Usman Chadda @YousafTheBeast @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

@jamie smith fan @Mamoon @Raja Ishtiaq

 

[jamie smith fan]

After my discussion with @BouncerGuy I wanted to discuss this with others. In my opinion we conflate sixes hit with intent and aggression even if the other 5 balls in the over are dots. If we look at Farhan's stats fom Asia Cup:

7 matches: 217 runs @ 31, SR 116 with 2 50s.

While he hit Bhumrah for sixes his overall SR was poor or at least not what we were promised after the removal of RizBar.

For comparison this was Rizwan's Asia Cup in 2022 where he was criticized heavily (final match criticism was justified and I say that as a Rizwan fan):

6 matches: 281 runs @ 56, SR 117 with 3 50s (big difference was he had a match winning knock vs India as well whereas both of Farhan's were in losing causes).

I am not saying Rizwan's Asia Cup was perfect. I just want to question why Farhan's performance this Asia Cup is hailed with his SR 116? Have our standards fallen so much that we are happy with sixes against a bowler?
@BouncerGuy @Usman Chadda @YousafTheBeast @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

@jamie smith fan @Mamoon @Raja Ishtiaq

The thing is Farhan is I think actually trying to play with a positive intent but he plays too many dot balls.
I recommend him to work on his strike rotation and i think sr will go up to 140 -150mark.
There is no point bringing rizwan back.He will at nax bat at a sr of 100.Rizwans T20I career is done and dusted

 

[Rana]

Chalo ab isko bhi bahir nikalo aur Rizwan ko le ao!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Farhan has a lot that can be built upon and improved.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Chalo ab isko bhi bahir nikalo aur Rizwan ko le ao!

RizBar vs Italy

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Apart from the innings against India in the final, Farhan was pretty ordinary in the Asia Cup.

 

[sithb]

Pakistan batting as such has the block or slog mentality. That predated misbah. Even with guys like inzy etc.

Other teams tended to look for singles when the shot wasn't on. But not Pakistan.

And teams figured out the batsmen's scoring area and set fields and tactics accordingly.

 

[jaisan]

Except the srilanka match which farhan scored 25 runs at 160 s/r, all other matches pakistan batted first which is always difficult to score fast in dubai.
Give him 2 series he will show his worth as t20 opener.
He tore apart bumrah bowling throughout the asia cup.that will amount to something right.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pakistan batting as such has the block or slog mentality. That predated misbah. Even with guys like inzy etc.

Other teams tended to look for singles when the shot wasn't on. But not Pakistan.

And teams figured out the batsmen's scoring area and set fields and tactics accordingly.

When I see Pakistani batsmen bat I feel like they don't have that ability to put bowlers under pressure. The mark of a great batsmen is their ability to put bowlers under pressure and dictate terms. Intent is not about going out and smashing sixes, it's about never letting a bowler settle. A bowler finds it much more frustrating when you keep scoring singles and doubles off him with ease while hitting the odd boundary. Infact if you start bashing him for sixes he will probably be happier because he knows that there is a high degree of risk involved and he is in the game.

I think Miandad was the last Pakistani batsman who had that mentality of wanting to put the bowlers under pressure by playing this type of smart cricket. So much of his game was just about singles and doubles.

 

[Kianig89]

Good work @RizwanT20Champ , also the overall SR of Farhan vs Rizbar do not have much difference. No wonder , why the selectors are reversing back their decisions

 

[Ahmed216]

Have to agree. Farhan so far has done nothing to be considered an upgrade as opener.
He does have six hitting ability that's better than Rizwan and Babar but SR is poor because he can't rotate strike or find gaps.

Look, Rizbab haters will cling on to the fact that he hit Bumrah for sixes even though in a losing cause, because apart from that they have nothing to talk about.

They have had to endure humiliation.

 

[Rana]

Have to agree. Farhan so far has done nothing to be considered an upgrade as opener

Yes, Babar and Rizwan absolutely tear Bumrah apart

 

[sithb]

I think Miandad was the last Pakistani batsman who had that mentality of wanting to put the bowlers under pressure by playing this type of smart cricket. So much of his game was just about singles and doubles.

Miandad and Salim Malik to an extent as well

 

[jnaveen1980]

Have to agree. Farhan so far has done nothing to be considered an upgrade as opener.
He does have six hitting ability that's better than Rizwan and Babar but SR is poor because he can't rotate strike or find gaps.

Look, Rizbab haters will cling on to the fact that he hit Bumrah for sixes even though in a losing cause, because apart from that they have nothing to talk about.

They have had to endure humiliation.

So far most his runs have come in slow wickets with low bounce like UAE wickets, Bangla wicket, Pakistan wicket. In Australia he is averaging 7.33, In NZ he is averaing 10.00.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Miandad and Salim Malik to an extent as well

Salim Malik during the early part of his career was an incredible player

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Salim Malik during the early part of his career was an incredible player

Miandad and Saleem Malik could do that for some part of their careers but they declined massively in the latter half of their careers.

I would put Saeed Anwar in that list of batsmen who could put bowlers under pressure until maybe 99 or so.

But I think Zaheer Abbas stands out even among this list. For his time, he was a rapid scorer and until his very last year of cricket, he never slowed down as a batsman.

 

[Katwalindian]

Stats is the most overrated thing in the world.....it didn't give full context.....rizwan can't hit sixes like farhan......farhan with little improvement can easily be 150 Sr batsmen which rizwan can't even achieve in his dreams.....I saw many t20s in which rizwan played till the end and pakistan still looses...

 

[tiger_khan]

I have a question

Why compare SF with RizBab?

even if there are Pak fans who think that SF is not up to par then why don't hey consider sending Hasan Nawaz or Haris as an opener?

What's the deal with the infatuation with RizBab? They had their time. They did OK. Now it's time for younger people. It's T20.

PS: we made the finals of the Asia Cup without RizBab. They did the same and didn't win it for us either. The implication of their absence in the T20 team is minimal.

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Yes, Babar and Rizwan absolutely tear Bumrah apart

Now we will have to hear you champion that one innings by Farhan until qayamat

 

[mrtaim3]

Cricket is not just about Stats. One person making 30 with singles and doubles and the other person with boundaries both with similar strike rate is just not the same.

The pressure and mental impact on opponent is entirely different.

Farhan has the right temperament. With time, he will learn to rotate strike too. You can’t learn to hit boundaries if you haven’t done that all your life.

 

[Farabi]

After my discussion with @BouncerGuy I wanted to discuss this with others. In my opinion we conflate sixes hit with intent and aggression even if the other 5 balls in the over are dots. If we look at Farhan's stats fom Asia Cup:

7 matches: 217 runs @ 31, SR 116 with 2 50s.

While he hit Bhumrah for sixes his overall SR was poor or at least not what we were promised after the removal of RizBar.

For comparison this was Rizwan's Asia Cup in 2022 where he was criticized heavily (final match criticism was justified and I say that as a Rizwan fan):

6 matches: 281 runs @ 56, SR 117 with 3 50s (big difference was he had a match winning knock vs India as well whereas both of Farhan's were in losing causes).

I am not saying Rizwan's Asia Cup was perfect. I just want to question why Farhan's performance this Asia Cup is hailed with his SR 116? Have our standards fallen so much that we are happy with sixes against a bowler?
@BouncerGuy @Usman Chadda @YousafTheBeast @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Nikhil_cric

You’re comparing players Rizwan/Babar who’ve played many years vs Farhan who really only got consistent chances this year.
If you look at Rizbabar’s recent performances, they are not that good.

 

[Vikram1989]

Farhan footwork is non existent . he was exposed on all tracks other than low slow Dubai track.even in sharjah, afg pacer farooqi exploited it and sohail passed a smirk comment about the usual way. He was cheaply bounced out in aus and nz.he struggles with lack of footwork there by resulting in poor sr.even mark Waugh laughed at his dismissals in Hobart. Sri Lanka pitches ate much better than low slow Dubai tracks, it will be a good test for him against any good bowlers such as bumrah, archer, wood , rabada, Josh etc

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

You’re comparing players Rizwan/Babar who’ve played many years vs Farhan who really only got consistent chances this year.
If you look at Rizbabar’s recent performances, they are not that good.

For the sake of th argument and to keep the haters happy, let us say Rizwan never gets back to the T20 side. Why is Farhan with a pathetic SR of 116 being hailed? I am mentioning Rizwan not to say he should be back but questioning how he is an improvement over Rizwan.

Since you love to slander RizBar, we have on 3 T20Is lifetime against India, Rizwan was responsible for 2 of those including a smashing by 10 wickets in a WC. Farhan's claim to fame is a couple of sixes in a lost cause.

Drop Rizwan by all means but then let's see better players not 78 SR jokers like Tulla Agha.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Stats is the most overrated thing in the world.....it didn't give full context.....rizwan can't hit sixes like farhan......farhan with little improvement can easily be 150 Sr batsmen which rizwan can't even achieve in his dreams.....I saw many t20s in which rizwan played till the end and pakistan still looses...

Stats are not overrated at all. In the end cricket is about numbers and wins and losses. RizBar SR that his haters keep crying about is also a "stat"! This is just a cop out to justify tulla Agha and Harris and to an extent Farhan's SR.

Farhan is not an 18 year old to improve from a pathetic SR of 116. If what people are saying true then despite intent that is his ceiling. Let us see what he does against SA second string bowlers.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Point is not to degrade Farhan. He did fine job. Point is, the people who compared these kind of players with babar and co, are getting a reality check that the boys they were backing like KHushdil and talat and haris are nothing players... Farhan did nothing special but he was one of the top batters for Pakistan in the event so kudos to him..

 

[Katwalindian]

Scond strings? Burger? Ngidi? Baartman? Bosch? Maphaka? It's not like jansen which is not playing is wasim akram....SA bowlers are all equal.....you are already making excuses to degrade his upcoming performances....

Stats are not overrated at all. In the end cricket is about numbers and wins and losses. RizBar SR that his haters keep crying about is also a "stat"! This is just a cop out to justify tulla Agha and Harris and to an extent Farhan's SR.

Farhan is not an 18 year old to improve from a pathetic SR of 116. If what people are saying true then despite intent that is his ceiling. Let us see what he does against SA second string bowlers.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Scond strings? Burger? Ngidi? Baartman? Bosch? Maphaka? It's not like jansen which is not playing is wasim akram....SA bowlers are all equal.....you are already making excuses to degrade his upcoming performances....

Rabada, Maharaj, Jansen? No one here played the T20 WC final last year from the bowlers. Who are you fooling? I have no intention to degrade Farhan's performance unlike you slandering Rizwan and Babar with statements like stats are overrated just because tulla Agha has SR of 78...RizBar with 130 SR and high average are crucified...but ok for Farhan to tuk tuk at 116.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

Point is not to degrade Farhan. He did fine job. Point is, the people who compared these kind of players with babar and co, are getting a reality check that the boys they were backing like KHushdil and talat and haris are nothing players... Farhan did nothing special but he was one of the top batters for Pakistan in the event so kudos to him..

Exactly the point. Nothing against Farhan whatsoever but hope people doing bhangra over 116 SR and tulla Agha 78 SR can justify why they went after RizBar with 130 SR.

 

[jnaveen1980]

West Indies has much better hitters than Farhan. But they also have this problems of dot balls. Pooran hd a strike rate of 130 for first 70 odd games. Only recently he pushed up to 136. Johnson Charles for all his big hitting has strike rate of 129.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

West Indies has much better hitters than Farhan. But they also have this problems of dot balls. Pooran hd a strike rate of 130 for first 70 odd games. Only recently he pushed up to 136. Johnson Charles for all his big hitting has strike rate of 129.

Ok don't exaggerate now. Just because we are criticising Farhan's SR doesn't mean it is a field day for Indians to make stupid statements. No WI current batter is better than Farhan lol, they are a team filled with jokers and no hopers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Miandad and Saleem Malik could do that for some part of their careers but they declined massively in the latter half of their careers.

I would put Saeed Anwar in that list of batsmen who could put bowlers under pressure until maybe 99 or so.

But I think Zaheer Abbas stands out even among this list. For his time, he was a rapid scorer and until his very last year of cricket, he never slowed down as a batsman.

All great players, but I feel Miandad towers above them all and was just a higher caliber. He was also an innovator and a character who knew how to get under the skin of the opposition, which for me just adds to his aura. He could do it with his bat and his mouth.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

West Indies has much better hitters than Farhan. But they also have this problems of dot balls. Pooran hd a strike rate of 130 for first 70 odd games. Only recently he pushed up to 136. Johnson Charles for all his big hitting has strike rate of 129.

Johnson Charles and Sahibzada Farhan are very similar batters. If you look at trigger movement, batting stance and the types of shots both thrive on, there are alot of similarities. Charles was known for playing crazy knocks from time to time where he would singlehandedly destroy good bowling attacks and then next two innings he would completely go missing scoring 29 off 30 and 15 off 18. I think Farhan is very similar where we will see him play those types of knocks from time to time and then go missing and struggle to even play run a ball. Unless ofcourse he evolves his game and improves the strike-rotation aspect in particular.

 

[pratiktc]

All Pak hitters soak up deliveries.
Its because their hitting game is mainly based around premeditation rather than reacting to ball.

PCT's problem is lack of quality batters. Rizwan is not solution, Farhan isn't either but they are hoping he improves and comes closer to solution

 

[pratiktc]

Reality is that in last 18 yrs of T20I cricket the only specialist Pak batters who have batted at forefront of their global peers in S/R terms are Nazir, Umar Akmal, Hafeez 2.0 and Babar vs NZ-D

 

[YousafTheBeast]

boys they were backing like KHushdil and talat

No one was backing them, at least not in T20’s

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Reality is that in last 18 yrs of T20I cricket the only specialist Pak batters who have batted at forefront of their global peers in S/R terms are Nazir, Umar Akmal, Hafeez 2.0 and Babar vs NZ-D

Shadab, Hassan Nawaz

 

[Farabi]

For the sake of th argument and to keep the haters happy, let us say Rizwan never gets back to the T20 side. Why is Farhan with a pathetic SR of 116 being hailed? I am mentioning Rizwan not to say he should be back but questioning how he is an improvement over Rizwan.

Since you love to slander RizBar, we have on 3 T20Is lifetime against India, Rizwan was responsible for 2 of those including a smashing by 10 wickets in a WC. Farhan's claim to fame is a couple of sixes in a lost cause.

Drop Rizwan by all means but then let's see better players not 78 SR jokers like Tulla Agha.

what is Farhan’s strike rate this year as an opener?

 

[Devadwal]

24(19) against South Africa in 1st T20 was Just another Statpadding knock

 

[Katwalindian]

Reality is that in last 18 yrs of T20I cricket the only specialist Pak batters who have batted at forefront of their global peers in S/R terms are Nazir, Umar Akmal, Hafeez 2.0 and Babar vs NZ-D

Babar scored against NZ best team but now he is finished

 

[Katwalindian]

Rabada, Maharaj, Jansen? No one here played the T20 WC final last year from the bowlers. Who are you fooling? I have no intention to degrade Farhan's performance unlike you slandering Rizwan and Babar with statements like stats are overrated just because tulla Agha has SR of 78...RizBar with 130 SR and high average are crucified...but ok for Farhan to tuk tuk at 116.

So you watch today SA bowling..hardly second strong.. all are seasoned componers...

 

[Local.Dada]

Farhan is an extremely limited player. The kind of player you can keep tied up to waste a lot of balls. Yes if it is in his zone it will disappear but that’s what a limited player is, limited zone.

 

[Local.Dada]

Ok don't exaggerate now. Just because we are criticising Farhan's SR doesn't mean it is a field day for Indians to make stupid statements. No WI current batter is better than Farhan lol, they are a team filled with jokers and no hopers.

You kind of have a point there but Shai Hope is leagues ahead. I don’t even know the rest of Wi bats. However Romario Shepard can walk into Pak all 3 formats as a batsman alone for sure. Rest of the WI bats look like junk. Has Hetmeyer retired? I think Pooran has.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ok don't exaggerate now. Just because we are criticising Farhan's SR doesn't mean it is a field day for Indians to make stupid statements. No WI current batter is better than Farhan lol, they are a team filled with jokers and no hopers.

Last 12 months

Farhan 24.30 average 128.80 strike rate
Shai Hope 37.00 average 145.31 strike rate
Romario shepard 22.00 average 140.91 strike rate
Rovman powell 31.64 average 141.53 strike rate

Ya. right no West Indian is better than him

 

[jnaveen1980]

You kind of have a point there but Shai Hope is leagues ahead. I don’t even know the rest of Wi bats. However Romario Shepard can walk into Pak all 3 formats as a batsman alone for sure. Rest of the WI bats look like junk. Has Hetmeyer retired? I think Pooran has.

Highest runs scored by Farhan in a single over is 17 runs. That is not how West Indians operate. Other day Powell smacked 3 sixes in a row. He is a Babar azam with six hitting ability that's it. Output is still Babar azam output

 

[Local.Dada]

Highest runs scored by Farhan in a single over is 17 runs. That is not how West Indians operate. Other day Powell smacked 3 sixes in a row. He is a Babar azam with six hitting ability that's it. Output is still Babar azam output

Oh yeah forgot Powell. He is definitely better than Farhan.

 

[Vikram1989]

All great players, but I feel Miandad towers above them all and was just a higher caliber. He was also an innovator and a character who knew how to get under the skin of the opposition, which for me just adds to his aura. He could do it with his bat and his mouth.

Even ambrose mentioned it.with out any one noticing , miandad will always raise his bat for 50.he has uncanny knack of stealing singles, picking 2's or 3's .he never gave the impression of dominating the strong bowling unit but he always does his job.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Farhan vs bumrah is turning into another folklore like 152/0. Fans have got carried away. If you guys have seen enough IPL you probably must be aware there are several cricketers that have very good one on one against Bumrah. It is not that big a deal to go after Bumrah on a slow wicket. Even a bangladesh batsman smacked him for six

 

[Savak]

Shahibzada is a Hack, good bowling teams will tie him down 9 times out of 10 and figure him out after 3-4 deliveries just like South Africa did today

 

[BouncerGuy]

Farhan played at 124... People are defending him still... Same happened with Babar and these same people made his life hell and now he is lost... Farhan has earned his spot through domestic cricket but so far, on international level, he is no better.

 

[Hikaru]

He is a hack, Riz-Babar over him anyday.

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Not convinced that Farhan is the solution

 

[Advaith]

Stats are not overrated at all. In the end cricket is about numbers and wins and losses. RizBar SR that his haters keep crying about is also a "stat"! This is just a cop out to justify tulla Agha and Harris and to an extent Farhan's SR.

Farhan is not an 18 year old to improve from a pathetic SR of 116. If what people are saying true then despite intent that is his ceiling. Let us see what he does against SA second string bowlers.

Difference I observed is rizwan strike rate at the start of innings usually is a big letdown and creates all sorts of pressure to batting line up and once match is out of the hand than only we see strike rate going beyond 100 ..same applies for most of babar innings..but farhan is different kind of batsman..His few innings not only provided confidence to the batting unit but the game is still very much alive when he got out.. Though I rate babar and rizwan among top layers in Pakistan team but their attitude seems mainly focussing on average rather than winning matches..