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[VIDEO] Mohammad Abbas' worrying lack of pace...

sadida97

sadida97

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It has been quite a while now, and Abbas hasn't bowled a single delivery over 130 kph. He has been bowling around 125 kph.

Abbas has been brilliant in this series.

But can he be effective, with a pace of 125 kph, against good batting line ups in conditions which are less supportive for the bowlers ?
 
He is simply that sort of bowler. Keeps it tight and operates in the 125-130 kph range. Our version of Vernon Philander if you may. Though if he is as good or not is yet to be seen.

It's actually a real shame. He is one of the few Pakistani bowlers in recent times who has the basics of bowling covered except the pace and height. The same Abbas 5 kph quicker will be a world beating talent.

But in this series he has bowled some good stuff and hopefully he can continue like this against better quality sides.
 
It's fine.

He is in the same mould as Asif.

If he can even end his career as a poor man's Asif, I'll be extremely satisfied.
 
I think it's a trade-off. Swing/control for pace/edges. If he can get 5km/h faster and is capable of bowling at 132-135km/h, then I'd like to see him permanently in the side. However, I'd still have him and replace Hasan Ali with Shadab Khan as that skiddy 3rd bowler (much better option than Wahab, look at recent ODIs performances for evidence). Overall, not hugely worried about his pace but the slowness could be affecting it, and once he gets a tad fitter hopefully he can get higher in pace and become a real threat.
 
He is doing perfectly for his age. I don't expect PAK pacers coming from domestics at 31-32 to bowl faster in first series. Couple of years with national setup, this guy should have reached average 134km level, had he been genuine 27 now.

Looking at his skills, action & structure, I feel he was delayed at least 5 years. Had he been drafted for National or even A team in between 2010-12 period, by now he would have been fitter, faster, more skilled & cunning pacer to serve for 2-4 more years. Unfortunately, in a year or 2, he'll show Sohail Khan syndrome - that's the 5 years buffer one has to factor in scouting pacers in South Asia, particulars in Pakistan.
 
MMHS said:
He is doing perfectly for his age. I don't expect PAK pacers coming from domestics at 31-32 to bowl faster in first series. Couple of years with national setup, this guy should have reached average 134km level, had he been genuine 27 now.

Looking at his skills, action & structure, I feel he was delayed at least 5 years. Had he been drafted for National or even A team in between 2010-12 period, by now he would have been fitter, faster, more skilled & cunning pacer to serve for 2-4 more years. Unfortunately, in a year or 2, he'll show Sohail Khan syndrome - that's the 5 years buffer one has to factor in scouting pacers in South Asia, particulars in Pakistan.
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Agreed. That's why there should be a 24 years old cut off point for fast bowler debuts.
 
Looks quite young/baby faced to me. How have we come to the conclusion that hes 30+?
 
He looks too chubby for a fast bowler. He seems to have lot of fat in chest and abdomen. Kind of like BAbar Azam.
Pace dropped off drastically after his first few overs. Fitness issues may be.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
Agreed. That's why there should be a 24 years old cut off point for fast bowler debuts.
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For Imran, it was 19, but I think, things have improved from Aquib, Waquar, Ata to Amir, Asif level - hence that 19, I can stress to 21, may be at most 22 level; but I won't debut anyone after official 23rd birthday - if someone genuine suffers for that, that's system limitation, he is paying for the incompetence of his administrators, one can't help.
 
It's fine, keep in mind he's bowled more than 45 overs in this match, more than 20 in this innings. Maybe a little strength work can get him to bowl consistently at 132 instead of dropped to 127.
 
This is his 2nd test match FGS :facepalm:

It took Aamir (yes the golden boy) MORE THAN A YEAR OF INTERNATIONAL CRICKET TO COME TO THE LEVEL HES OPERATING RIGHT NOW.

Abbas would most definitely improve from here onwards if he continues to tour with the national setup for a complete season.
 
troodon said:
He looks too chubby for a fast bowler. He seems to have lot of fat in chest and abdomen. Kind of like BAbar Azam.
Pace dropped off drastically after his first few overs. Fitness issues may be.
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Have you seen Babar shirtless? Where did you come up with this?
 
from what little ive seen of him, nothing about him has inspired me.

the best bowlers on show in the two tests are

yasir
gabriel
amir
holder
alzarri

gabriel has hardly a spell where he has not threatened. pick of the fast bowlers for me without a shadow of doubt.

we need to look elsewhere and also maybe see what sadaf hussain does with the ball. pace was the biggest concern about him and if 125 kph bowlers can get a go, why not him.
 
Abbas is better than Imran Khan but he won't be as effective an option in UAE or Australia. I'd like to see how he bowls with the Kookaburra instead of the Dukes.

However I don't agree with dropping him. He's got the old ball reversing plus conventional swing with the new ball. He's got good control and accuracy and a nice seam position. Abbas can be useful in England, New Zealand and wherever there's a green track or seam-friendly conditions.
 
anonymous_guy said:
Downgrade version of Imran Khan jr!!!!

I would prefer a downgrade version if he continues to pickup more wickets and keeps on troubling the batsmen as compared to the mighty Imran
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Let's see if he can do it in UAE.
 
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I could not care less what speed he bowls at as long as he takes wickets.

McGrath, Pollock etc weren't quick but look at their records.
 
The pakistani obsession with phast bowlers has seen wayward bowlers like Wahab take a spot in the team ahead of more deserving players.
 
Saj said:
I could not care less what speed he bowls at as long as he takes wickets.

McGrath, Pollock etc weren't quick but look at their records.
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people with brains will look at the bowlers consistency in hitting the line and length... others just look at pace and pace only which can give them bowlers like wahab and sami
 
Rayyman said:
Let's see if he can do it in UAE.
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UAE shouldnt be the yardstick for pacers... even bowlers like amir and asif will struggle in those lifeless pitches... all the series that pak won in UAE was due to the spinners...cant think of any team that was shattered by any new ball bowlers getting a 5fer
 
Markhor said:
Abbas is better than Imran Khan but he won't be as effective an option in UAE or Australia. I'd like to see how he bowls with the Kookaburra instead of the Dukes.

However I don't agree with dropping him.
He's got the old ball reversing plus conventional swing with the new ball. He's got good control and accuracy and a nice seam position.
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Abbas can be useful in England, New Zealand and wherever there's a green track or seam-friendly conditions.
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#skillset

balls will not matter much for a skillful bowler when he knows how where and what to bowl...


ball can generate or vary with less swing/seam but control over his line and length is more important for a pace bowler...
 
sadida97 said:
It has been quite a while now, and Abbas hasn't bowled a single delivery over 130 kph. He has been bowling around 125 kph.

Abbas has been brilliant in this series.

But can he be effective, with a pace of 125 kph, against good batting line ups in conditions which are less supportive for the bowlers ?
Click to expand...

How could conditions in this tour possibly have been any *less* supportive for fast bowlers?
 
At 28 he doesn't have age on his side to increase pace and work on his game unlike Hasan Ali

And people comparing him to a genius like Asif should first check the difference in their heights
 
ask_analyse_act said:
UAE shouldnt be the yardstick for pacers... even bowlers like amir and asif will struggle in those lifeless pitches... all the series that pak won in UAE was due to the spinners...cant think of any team that was shattered by any new ball bowlers getting a 5fer
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No small irony in comparing Abbas to Imran Khan Jr because the latter has actually been very good in the UAE.
 
Fahdi said:
He is simply that sort of bowler. Keeps it tight and operates in the 125-130 kph range. Our version of Vernon Philander if you may. Though if he is as good or not is yet to be seen.

It's actually a real shame. He is one of the few Pakistani bowlers in recent times who has the basics of bowling covered except the pace and height. The same Abbas 5 kph quicker will be a world beating talent.

But in this series he has bowled some good stuff and hopefully he can continue like this against better quality sides.
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I agree, I was surprised with the amount of wickets he took. Wahab Riaz on the other hands has struggled for wickets through out his career. Mohd Sami is another example of bowler with great pace, who got very few wickets. Umar Gul also was not a consistent wicket taker.
If a medium pacer can get lots of wickets, his pace does not matter. It is however a little early to say how good Abbas really is. but there is a case of giving him an extended run in tests.
 
ask_analyse_act said:
UAE shouldnt be the yardstick for pacers... even bowlers like amir and asif will struggle in those lifeless pitches... all the series that pak won in UAE was due to the spinners...cant think of any team that was shattered by any new ball bowlers getting a 5fer
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You forgot the great Tanvir Ahmed :D on his debut against South Africa (Special Thanks to Asoka De Silva) :p

Also, in the 2013 series against Lanka, they demolished us in the 1st innings for around 165 with one of their faster men (probably Lakmal) picking up a fiver. Bilawal Bhatti too gave some quick breakthroughs in the first match of that series.
 
Faisalsq092 said:
You forgot the great Tanvir Ahmed :D on his debut against South Africa (Special Thanks to Asoka De Silva) :p

Also, in the 2013 series against Lanka, they demolished us in the 1st innings for around 165 with one of their faster men (probably Lakmal) picking up a fiver. Bilawal Bhatti too gave some quick breakthroughs in the first match of that series.
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Well we did get bowled out for 165 but none of their bowlers got a fifer. They all shared wickets
 
This thread instantly tells me that many watch cricket - but don’t play or understand the art/tactician side of cricket.

This forum has many PP’ers obsessed with pace. Hell, some even ruled out Sadaf as a good bowler for Intl level because of his lack of pace, despite doing exceptionally well in domestic.

Well, here you have Abbas, who also is deemed as a trundler by many, who also like Sadaf performed well at domestic level.

His average in test cricket speaks for itself. Like Asif, he let’s the ball do the talking, artistic bowler.
 
Pace is overrated, especially on pitches such as this one at Lord's.

I could just imagine a few Pakistani pacers who are called express bowlers who would have turned up at Lord's and banged it in half way and bowled all over the place instead of bowling with their brain.
 
people act as if he is bowling at a 120 ks


Yes he is not fast, but he isnt Trent Copeland either
 
Will be helpful on some pitches and a real hindrance on others. He is def better than i thought he was going to be.
 
this is why you reward domestic champions.

The losers want style and pace, the smart ones pick on merit.
 
He looks okay to me. Not everyone wants to be an express bowler. His line, length and control are good. Don't be ageists. Much better then the terrible Rahat Ali.
 
majiz said:
he isn't even particularly slow, mid 80s with little effort
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I didn’t get to watch the match so can anyone else confirm that Abbas is bowling mid 80’s?

85 mph is almost 137kph and this is a huge contrast from the OP which complains about Abbas failing to bowl a single delivery over 130kph(only a year ago!)
 
as-95 said:
I didn’t get to watch the match so can anyone else confirm that Abbas is bowling mid 80’s?

85 mph is almost 137kph and this is a huge contrast from the OP which complains about Abbas failing to bowl a single delivery over 130kph(only a year ago!)
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He was consistently bowling in the low 80s, hit mid 80s with some effort.
 
The obsession with pace is so stupid that fans didn't even want the top performer of first class Cricket in the Test squad.

The Trundler now has the best bowling figures for a Pakistani pacer at Lord's.
 
as-95 said:
I didn’t get to watch the match so can anyone else confirm that Abbas is bowling mid 80’s?

85 mph is almost 137kph and this is a huge contrast from the OP which complains about Abbas failing to bowl a single delivery over 130kph(only a year ago!)
Click to expand...

Few of his deliveries were recorded at 85 mph.
 
BlueDoritos said:
He was consistently bowling in the low 80s, hit mid 80s with some effort.
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80's is perfectly acceptable for a test bowler. He seems to have the skills to make up for the lack of pace so it is good to see that we are picking bowlers pased on their skills as opposed to sprsy guns like Wahab who bowl faast but have no accuracy whatsoever!
 
His record so far speaks for itself. Must have been really satisfying for him to prove so many wrong. Really happy for this guy. Came out of nowhere and has cemented a place in the team through sheer hard work and grit.
 
This obsession with pace is beyond ridiculous. Mark Wood was bowling with pace but what good did the pace do for him? In test cricket, you need line and length bowler, who can hit the good spot with consistency and that’s exactly what Abbas did.
 
Saj said:
I could not care less what speed he bowls at as long as he takes wickets.

McGrath, Pollock etc weren't quick but look at their records.
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Yes except they were much taller, so they could afford to operate at a slower pace because of the steep bounce they had to compensate for this.

Abbas on slower and grassless wickets with the kookaburra will be the acid test. So far he's been perfect with the duke ball.
 
Why didn't we take this guy to NZ? We selected guys like Ruman over him?
 
ArsenalFC said:
Yes except they were much taller, so they could afford to operate at a slower pace because of the steep bounce they had to compensate for this.

Abbas on slower and grassless wickets with the kookaburra will be the acid test. So far he's been perfect with the duke ball.
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No it won't be the acid test or the litmus test or any kind of definitive at all. There is no reason for why pitches that look like Mars, and only those pitches, should be the baseline for evaluating a pace bowler. Pakistani fans fantasize about bowlers who could once in a blue moon take the pitch out of the equation, and forget that what really counts is a bowler who knows how to exploit a pitch, day in and day out. Like all bowlers Abbas will perform better on some wickets than others. It is as simple as that. He should be judged not on the basis of how he performs in one tour of of 20, but how he performs across all of those tours.
 
Savak said:
Why didn't we take this guy to NZ? We selected guys like Ruman over him?
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There were no tests in NZ. Think most people would prefer Rumman Raees over Mohammad Abbas in white ball cricket
 
New Yorker said:
No it won't be the acid test or the litmus test or any kind of definitive at all. There is no reason for why pitches that look like Mars, and only those pitches, should be the baseline for evaluating a pace bowler. Pakistani fans fantasize about bowlers who could once in a blue moon take the pitch out of the equation, and forget that what really counts is a bowler who knows how to exploit a pitch, day in and day out. Like all bowlers Abbas will perform better on some wickets than others. It is as simple as that. He should be judged not on the basis of how he performs in one tour of of 20, but how he performs across all of those tours.
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Thanks for stating the obvious - if you do your research you'll find most of the countries (about two thirds) use the kookaburra and as it's less potent for swing, seam and pace (due to the less prominent seam), this is where we will see if he has the skills to perform at medium pace. You can't exploit a pitch if it is flat as an overwhelming number of them are around the world!

The best pace attacks are Australia and South Africa because their bowlers have the pace, height and most crucially skills to take the pitch out of the equation when it isn't offering assistance.

Some of us have higher aspirations because Pakistan is a land of bowlers. Abbas has made a great start to his career but it is illogical to come to the conclusion that his lack of pace won't be a concern because he can dominate in England, WI and Ireland with the duke ball and favourable bowling conditions against some ordinary batting lining ups particularly with the last 2.
 
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Spoke with Abbas after the match and he came up with some very interesting remarks regarding his bowling and his strengths.

Watch this space.
 
He used to generally bowl in the 128-132 kph region, he’s lost a good 5 k’s.
 
Saj said:
Spoke with Abbas after the match and he came up with some very interesting remarks regarding his bowling and his strengths.

Watch this space.
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Well he is bowling like Ravi Bopara right now.

He was never quick but he bowled much quicker than this garbage.
 
He had a shoulder injury last year and since then he seems to have lost some pace. He used to have a good surprise bouncer which kept batsmen back in the crease and that too seems to have disappeared.

So unfortunate to see a bowler fade so quickly. Wonder if his injury/recovery were managed properly.
 
<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/opgsw/ppends" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Hussey on Pak bowlers but some points on Abbas also
 
MenInG said:
<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/opgsw/ppends" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Hussey on Pak bowlers but some points on Abbas also
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On point. I have been saying this for ages. Keeper needs to keep up to negate this. Line and length shouldn't be adjusted such that it doesn't help bowler. Bowling short doesn't give the ball enough to swing or seam
 
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