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[VIDEO/PICTURES] Mohammad Rizwan taking a break to perform prayers during match against India

MenInG

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Is it acceptable to take a break during the middle of play to pray? Should the view be that it's his personal business so no concern of others, or should he be asked to refrain and pray after the match is over?
 
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Rizwan praying namaz earlier during a break in India's innings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/T20WorldCup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#T20WorldCup</a> <a href="https://t.co/2zUT7yPTYK">pic.twitter.com/2zUT7yPTYK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1452311272259825675?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2021</a></blockquote>
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goood good. Really proud of him today
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Rizwan praying namaz earlier during a break in India's innings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/T20WorldCup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#T20WorldCup</a> <a href="https://t.co/2zUT7yPTYK">pic.twitter.com/2zUT7yPTYK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1452311272259825675?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2021</a></blockquote>
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The mans an inspiration.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Allahumduillah Allahumduillah Allahumduillah &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;&#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; <a href="https://t.co/qYWImQrCSe">pic.twitter.com/qYWImQrCSe</a></p>— Hassan Ali &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; (@RealHa55an) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealHa55an/status/1452332391117250560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mohammad Rizwan praying namaz earlier during a break in India's innings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/T20WorldCup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#T20WorldCup</a> <a href="https://t.co/2zUT7yPTYK">pic.twitter.com/2zUT7yPTYK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1452311272259825675?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 24, 2021</a></blockquote>
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Praying during India's innings:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 100.000%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/japs1h" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Have said this before, will say it again. Watching Rizwan do this absolutely warms my heart. He could even start a trend which normalizes praying on-field during a break. Obviosuly it's not necessary, since players' have relevant concessions, but nothing will give more motivation, focus and energy than a prayer, and Rizwan is a great example of this.
 
Don't think i have seen a perfect combination in a Pakistani player before i.e. being so well grounded and still having so much self belief. Its either too much timidness, lack of self belief or shoda arrogance swagger, nothing in between.
 
Shouldn't have done that.. For namaz, place and clothes are must be pure..
 
Shouldn't have done that.. For namaz, place and clothes are must be pure..

There are exceptions for e.g. if you are travelling and are away from home i.e. 40 km or more from your place of residence.
 
Shouldn't have done that.. For namaz, place and clothes are must be pure..

Don’t want to bring up a religious debate , but there is nothing to suggest his clothes were not pure . Sweat does not make you impure , and as for the ground that would have been clean to perform prayer .
 
Don't think i have seen a perfect combination in a Pakistani player before i.e. being so well grounded and still having so much self belief. Its either too much timidness, lack of self belief or shoda arrogance swagger, nothing in between.

Rizwan, fakhar and babar amongst our Batman all have those traits . They will have bad days but overall this trio of batsman have the right attitude and this reflected in there successes .
 
The arrogance days are gone with Afridi and Aamir. With Hafeez and Malik retiring soon, Hasan Ali might be the only player with that sort of attitude in the team now. The rest of them have not seen a lot of personal success so are fairly grounded.
 
This namaz was during when the Kohli-Pant partnership was looking threatening and Rizwan started to panic perhaps.

He should have been discussing tactics and team talk at the break, not praying to God for a wicket .. in the middle of the ground, not to mention in the middle of a game !
 
This namaz was during when the Kohli-Pant partnership was looking threatening and Rizwan started to panic perhaps.

He should have been discussing tactics and team talk at the break, not praying to God for a wicket .. in the middle of the ground, not to mention in the middle of a game !

He completed the religious obligation. We don't pray to ask for things. We pray as we have been commanded to do so.
 
I think it will help him mentally on the field of play. For a few mins, he is totally in a spiritual mode, stress free. The heart rate will drop, the pressure wont matter as much.

Can we make this a rule for all batsmen out there? :moyo
 
This namaz was during when the Kohli-Pant partnership was looking threatening and Rizwan started to panic perhaps.

He should have been discussing tactics and team talk at the break, not praying to God for a wicket .. in the middle of the ground, not to mention in the middle of a game !

152/0
 
Have said this before, will say it again. Watching Rizwan do this absolutely warms my heart. He could even start a trend which normalizes praying on-field during a break. Obviosuly it's not necessary, since players' have relevant concessions, but nothing will give more motivation, focus and energy than a prayer, and Rizwan is a great example of this.

ummm, we already seen that happen in the Inzi era, and it bought no benefit to the team.

As long faith is kept as a personal matter, its good. Once you start doing forceful and mixing theology with sports than it becomes too much...

To say divulging in religious activities during a game break will give motivation, focus and energy to a team, than that team is not interested in the sport than. Ok at a personal level, but not to be forced at a team level.
 
this was during drinks, and if the umps and opposition dont have a problem, why should we then?
 
I don't see how this is an issue? Anyone who has seen me in Off Topic knows my views on religion (raised Muslim, left Islam years ago, pretty anti-religion), but he can do what he wants (as long as it doesn't infringe within the rules of the game) during the allotted drinks break?
 
Rizwan is on of my favorite player but I don;t like this religious drama he played in the stadium that too during his inning . Each inning lasts only 90 minutes and he could have offered his prayer during the interval. There was absolutely no need for it.

Hope he would not create this crazy , ridiculous trend. I posses good knowledge of the religious and Islam is a very flexible and accommodating religion for every era and all occasion . Rizwan did not have to do this.
 
Rizwan is on of my favorite player but I don;t like this religious drama he played in the stadium that too during his inning . Each inning lasts only 90 minutes and he could have offered his prayer during the interval. There was absolutely no need for it.

Hope he would not create this crazy , ridiculous trend. I posses good knowledge of the religious and Islam is a very flexible and accommodating religion for every era and all occasion . Rizwan did not have to do this.

Again, care to look at the picture carefully, this is drinks break during indian innings, no one objected, this didnt hold the game back, the umps had no qualms, the opposition had no qualms... then whats all the fuss about, trying to be over liberal.

I would agree with you when ppl do it in the middle of sidewalks, streets, on top of their cars, and other unwarranted methods. He quickly offered and was ready to go when the umps called play.
 
Rizwan is on of my favorite player but I don;t like this religious drama he played in the stadium that too during his inning . Each inning lasts only 90 minutes and he could have offered his prayer during the interval. There was absolutely no need for it.

Hope he would not create this crazy , ridiculous trend. I posses good knowledge of the religious and Islam is a very flexible and accommodating religion for every era and all occasion . Rizwan did not have to do this.

This is no drama.

It was the Magrib prayer and he did it during drinks break quietly without stopping the game......I don't see any issue with it niether did the umpires or opposition.
 
Rizwan is on of my favorite player but I don;t like this religious drama he played in the stadium that too during his inning . Each inning lasts only 90 minutes and he could have offered his prayer during the interval. There was absolutely no need for it.

Hope he would not create this crazy , ridiculous trend. I posses good knowledge of the religious and Islam is a very flexible and accommodating religion for every era and all occasion . Rizwan did not have to do this.

I wouldn't call it a drama cuz each to it's own. So he may have his reasons. All good to him.

However, if it was me, I would've at least stepped outside the boundary line, and perhaps away from the direct camera AND public exposure to offer my prayers.

Even though I may not have any such intentions of showing off, but I wouldn't want to give anyone a chance to point fingers at my prayers and call it a show off gesture.

IMO, praying solo salah is a pvt matter between a person and his creator. And in general, it should be kept pvt.
 
I wouldn't call it a drama cuz each to it's own. So he may have his reasons. All good to him.

However, if it was me, I would've at least stepped outside the boundary line, and perhaps away from the direct camera AND public exposure to offer my prayers.

Even though I may not have any such intentions of showing off, but I wouldn't want to give anyone a chance to point fingers at my prayers and call it a show off gesture.

IMO, praying solo salah is a pvt matter between a person and his creator. And in general, it should be kept pvt.


Cameras or the ocassion has nothing to do with it....Rizwan does this even in domestics when there's no one to watch.

There's no show-off, he just doesn't want to miss his prayers.
 
If he is winning Pakistan matches and scoring runs= “MashaAllah, SubhanAllah, Wah g Wah”

If he is a liability= “This is extremism…”
 
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ummm, we already seen that happen in the Inzi era, and it bought no benefit to the team.

As long faith is kept as a personal matter, its good. Once you start doing forceful and mixing theology with sports than it becomes too much...

To say divulging in religious activities during a game break will give motivation, focus and energy to a team, than that team is not interested in the sport than. Ok at a personal level, but not to be forced at a team level.

These are the sort of rebuttals that kind of annoy me heaps. It's like propping up a hypothetical argument and then debating it. Just trivial and counter productive

First of all, where did I even remotely suggest "forced at a team level"? I implied that Rizwan could *inspire* others to do the same.

Secondly, addressing the "has been tried before" thing, you don't have to take my word for it, just watch Hayden's interview with Fox Sports the other day. He's an outsider that has no real understanding or sympathy for the spiritual ways, yet he even acknowledged that the thing that had him in most awe over the last 5 weeks was the collective spirituality of the team and the fact players were willing to embrace that spirituality publicly and unabashedly. That was one of the sources of motivation and what bred energy into the team. He also attributed their spirituality as the reason why they "were humble post-Victory in the dressing room".

Also, when did I suggest "[be] forceful and mix theology with sports" If you think praying is a mixing sports with theology, then are you against a public Du'a as well? If no, then Prayer is an extension of Du'a, so not sure how that would imply any kind of mixing. Plus, if prayer isn't disturbing or irritating the opposition or the team's own management, why in the world are you so irked by it? Absolutely no justification.
 
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I don't see it as an issue as long as the game itself isn't being held up because of it.
 
And to those that might have inklings of thoughts that Rizwan does this for perhaps not the cleanest intentions, just watch the post match conference of Shaheen and Rizwan. He had informed the media manager beforehand that he'd leave the conference early so that he could pray on time. And he does exactly that. Takes the first half of the conference and then leaves to attend to prayer.

He's the real deal and I hope a source of inspiration for other players and Pakistani Muslims in general. It's no surprise he has mental rigour, he has abundant faith.
 
Nothing wrong with being ultra religious but I hate people who creates this kind of dramas. I am a big fan of people like Mion Ali, Amla and our own Mushi, I'm sure they are very good practicing Muslim but being dignified people and thorough professionals , would never show off their religious rituals just to show the billion Tv viewers. God does not need to watch you praying on TV.

We have another moulvi as our coach, Saqi, does he look like a coach of a national team with his big belly . How can you motivate the players to work hard on fitness if your own physique is like a village Mullah.
 
Cameras or the ocassion has nothing to do with it....Rizwan does this even in domestics when there's no one to watch.

There's no show-off, he just doesn't want to miss his prayers.

Totally understand - and no where I indicated that I want him to miss his players. No, that’s not my point.
This is Farz salah and I have nothing against it. Matter of fact, I appreciate that he strives to pray on time. 10 out of 10 to him.

So he is all good (as I already wrote in my previous post).

What I said was, “if it was ME”, then I would’ve stepped outside the boundary line and found a place away from camera and general public view (perhaps close to side screen or something) and offered my prayers instead being in the middle of the ground.

Again, that’s for me personally. This would’ve been a lot more comfortable for ME to pray salah.

Rizwan can follow with whatever he feels comfortable with.

But mind you, there is a little granularity in it when it comes to giving those optional sajdas. Again, each to its own and players are free to celebrate a milestone in whatever way they want to, and I don’t stop anyone from giving those sajdas, however, I am personally not a big fan of it.

Praying farz salah is altogether different ball game but these optional sajdas IMO, look to be sort of drama cuz many of them sajda giving players then break the team curfew to stay out in clubs to party - some are caught having cyber sex chat, others fight in courts for women claiming to be their sex partners after being lured into marriage dreams etc.
So that kinda life style, (that we all free to choose) doesn’t really sit well with giving sajdas in the ground.

Glad that Rizwan doesn’t do that, and he earns more of my respect for it.
His gesture of dua at a milestone is much more decent and classy.
 
Btw correct me if I'm wrong, but don't muslims have to do ablution before starting a namaz prayer?
 
If it's during break and doesn't affect the play time, I won't object personally.
 
Btw correct me if I'm wrong, but don't muslims have to do ablution before starting a namaz prayer?

Yes, we have to.
However, absolution stays intact as long as you have not slept or taken the smallest of naps, have used restroom for number one or two, you have not passed gas, not have had any sexual activity and have not gotten a cut to the skin that results in blood flow. Absolution also breaks if you smile or laugh during salah.

Many people pray more than one salah with one absolution.
 
These are the sort of rebuttals that kind of annoy me heaps. It's like propping up a hypothetical argument and then debating it. Just trivial and counter productive

First of all, where did I even remotely suggest "forced at a team level"? I implied that Rizwan could *inspire* others to do the same.

Secondly, addressing the "has been tried before" thing, you don't have to take my word for it, just watch Hayden's interview with Fox Sports the other day. He's an outsider that has no real understanding or sympathy for the spiritual ways, yet he even acknowledged that the thing that had him in most awe over the last 5 weeks was the collective spirituality of the team and the fact players were willing to embrace that spirituality publicly and unabashedly. That was one of the sources of motivation and what bred energy into the team. He also attributed their spirituality as the reason why they "were humble post-Victory in the dressing room".

Also, when did I suggest "[be] forceful and mix theology with sports" If you think praying is a mixing sports with theology, then are you against a public Du'a as well? If no, then Prayer is an extension of Du'a, so not sure how that would imply any kind of mixing. Plus, if prayer isn't disturbing or irritating the opposition or the team's own management, why in the world are you so irked by it? Absolutely no justification.

if you get annoyed by rebuttals on an online discussion forum, than i would suggest maybe not make a post. Or else what do you expect?
I understand, just because it is namaz and spirituality you feel uncomfortable if someone says something against it and we should all tow the line..

lol, Hayden being impressed? Woolmer also made similar statements intially during the inzi era, but later on the same spirituality seekness became a big problem as the players were more concerned with their religious duties instead of playing the game.

So if it wasn't for spirtuality they wouldn't had been humble post victory? If spirtuality is what controlled them than I would really doubt their real character i guess.

No one is irked by it, only you are the one who is getting irked that someone is questioning this.

Like i said, if a single guy wants to divulge in spirituality mid game, its ok, but if whole team is doing a namaz break during drinks break than it gets ridiculous and there is no need for that.

If Babar Azam was the one praying off during drinks break that would had been an issue to because he is the captain and during drinks break should be talking with prayers. Rizwan taking the break was ok because he isn't captain and for him to talk wouldn't had mattered.

T20 is a fast paced game, you dont get to be in a huddle all the time. So the few minutes that you do get is important for team talk and motivation
 
And to those that might have inklings of thoughts that Rizwan does this for perhaps not the cleanest intentions, just watch the post match conference of Shaheen and Rizwan. He had informed the media manager beforehand that he'd leave the conference early so that he could pray on time. And he does exactly that. Takes the first half of the conference and then leaves to attend to prayer.

He's the real deal and I hope a source of inspiration for other players and Pakistani Muslims in general. It's no surprise he has mental rigour, he has abundant faith.

So he should be a source of inspiration because he is a good cricketer or because he has to pray and let everyone know?

If Pakistani muslims should get a source of inspiration from Rizwan due to his praying, than plzz, we already got the inspirations from inzi... We were soo inspired that the team back than had become a laughing joke in ICC tournaments.
 
So he should be a source of inspiration because he is a good cricketer or because he has to pray and let everyone know?

If Pakistani muslims should get a source of inspiration from Rizwan due to his praying, than plzz, we already got the inspirations from inzi... We were soo inspired that the team back than had become a laughing joke in ICC tournaments.

Where do you think he should pray when its time during a game?

The obligations to namaz in our religion are very clear.
 
Where do you think he should pray when its time during a game?

The obligations to namaz in our religion are very clear.

His religious duties are his personal matter and I dont have an issue with that. He can pray on the pitch for all I care.

But, you cannot be expecting the whole team should be doing this during water breaks or especially the captain.

the comments made were source of inspiration for Muslims just because he prays.
 
"Rizwan offered Namaz during the match in the middle of the Hindus, which was the most satisfying thing Mashallah, even more than his batting"

- Waqar Younis in a tv show.

This after Sheikh Rashid proclaiming Pakistan's win over India as a "victory of Islam".

What's with Pakistanis seeing a cricket match with India as an ideological war against the non believers lol.
 
As long as the prayer is not enforced to other members of the team, what is wrong with it? We are noone to judje anyone's belief or intentions. Personally, prayers do help calming down the nerves. Even many in the field of medicine encourage to pray to attain peace of mind.
 
There is a new thread regarding Waqar's comments. Please post your views in that thread.

Was talking about Waqar saying he is more proud of Rizwan doing namaz in between all hindus. Seems like mods delete the tread or merged it because it doesn't suit their narrative.
 
No problem with it until ICC say this isn't allowed, which could happen I guess in future.

There's been uproar over this, I'm sure it won't be the end of the discussions regarding this.
 
Where do you think he should pray when its time during a game?

The obligations to namaz in our religion are very clear.

This falls more under Dikhawa , just look at the coverage. Islam says don't make your faith harder on you and if you go above and beyond what I suggest thats not please God thats just making you feel good. We don't know Rizwan's niyat but if he had to pray then he should have done congregational players or he could have combined which was common sense after the match or before the match depending on time.
 
It is a lot of show offing but he's not harming anyone. Completely upto him
 
So he should be a source of inspiration because he is a good cricketer or because he has to pray and let everyone know?

If Pakistani muslims should get a source of inspiration from Rizwan due to his praying, than plzz, we already got the inspirations from inzi... We were soo inspired that the team back than had become a laughing joke in ICC tournaments.

You do realize that Inzi is just a person, and not the epitome of a sporting Muslim inspiration that no one in the entire world can best?

Just because Inzi might not have translated that into ICC victories, doesn't mean that no one else can ever be a source of inspiration. Is Moeen Ali not an inspiration for Brit Muslims? What about Adil Rashid? Hashim Amla for South African Muslims?

This is not even limited to cricket. Is Khabib not an inspiration for many Muslims in how to remain patient in adversity and humble in victory? Was Muhammad Ali not an inspiration for his activism and great mind?

Rizwan can be a great inspiration because he's not only humble, but also has one of the best attitudes in cricket. He ascribes his attitude to be sourced from religion. All the previous names do too. I'm inclined to believe them.
 
You do realize that Inzi is just a person, and not the epitome of a sporting Muslim inspiration that no one in the entire world can best?

Just because Inzi might not have translated that into ICC victories, doesn't mean that no one else can ever be a source of inspiration. Is Moeen Ali not an inspiration for Brit Muslims? What about Adil Rashid? Hashim Amla for South African Muslims?

This is not even limited to cricket. Is Khabib not an inspiration for many Muslims in how to remain patient in adversity and humble in victory? Was Muhammad Ali not an inspiration for his activism and great mind?

Rizwan can be a great inspiration because he's not only humble, but also has one of the best attitudes in cricket. He ascribes his attitude to be sourced from religion. All the previous names do too. I'm inclined to believe them.

I can assure you that majority of the people in Pakistan had no idea what Mohammad Ali did, they only saw him as a source of inspiration because of the fact that he was a muslim. Just because one follows the religion you follow is a poor excuse to be a source of inspiration.

You look at his actions in the field he is involved.

Mohammad Ali became
 
if you get annoyed by rebuttals on an online discussion forum, than i would suggest maybe not make a post. Or else what do you expect?
I understand, just because it is namaz and spirituality you feel uncomfortable if someone says something against it and we should all tow the line..

lol, Hayden being impressed? Woolmer also made similar statements intially during the inzi era, but later on the same spirituality seekness became a big problem as the players were more concerned with their religious duties instead of playing the game.

So if it wasn't for spirtuality they wouldn't had been humble post victory? If spirtuality is what controlled them than I would really doubt their real character i guess.

No one is irked by it, only you are the one who is getting irked that someone is questioning this.

Like i said, if a single guy wants to divulge in spirituality mid game, its ok, but if whole team is doing a namaz break during drinks break than it gets ridiculous and there is no need for that.

If Babar Azam was the one praying off during drinks break that would had been an issue to because he is the captain and during drinks break should be talking with prayers. Rizwan taking the break was ok because he isn't captain and for him to talk wouldn't had mattered.

T20 is a fast paced game, you dont get to be in a huddle all the time. So the few minutes that you do get is important for team talk and motivation

Again with the hypothetical arguments.

I'm not annoyed by rebuttals in general, just those kind which essentially are based on red herrings, straw men, and essentially debate a point that was never even originally made. Basically, I despise poorly thought rebuttals. The kind that take the original statement of "Rizwan can be a source of inspiration" and hilariously extrapolate it to "the team should be *forced* to pray on-field". You see how ridiculous that is?

And no, I don't feel uncomfortable in someone criticising or questioning aspects of the religion. I live in Australia, and some peeps have had enquiries about this and I always answer acc to what I know. Like I said before, I just don't like people making trivial arguments when even they know it's not true. It's just counterproductive for everyone involved.

Literally almost everything you've asked me could be answered if you just watched the Hayden interview.

I'll address it anyways.

So if it wasn't for spirtuality they wouldn't had been humble post victory? If spirtuality is what controlled them than I would really doubt their real character i guess.

Yes, humbleness is a fundamental tenet of the religion. Spirituality helps shape character. This isn't just true for cricketers, but most practising Muslims. Do you disagree?

No one is irked by it, only you are the one who is getting irked that someone is questioning this.

Well if you aren't irked by it, the team management isn't irked by it, the opposition isn't irked by it, then why bring it up in the first place? A tad bit of incessant questions about something that doesn't even bother anyone is slightly trivial, is it not?
 
I can assure you that majority of the people in Pakistan had no idea what Mohammad Ali did, they only saw him as a source of inspiration because of the fact that he was a muslim. Just because one follows the religion you follow is a poor excuse to be a source of inspiration.

You look at his actions in the field he is involved.

Mohammad Ali became

Are you claiming to speak on behalf of most Pakistanis? What evidence do you have to back that up or is this just hearsay and you're trying to pass off your personal experience as the collective truth of most Pakistanis?

Anyways, let's imagine most Pakistanis don't know about Muhammad Ali's work, but is someone like Edhi not an inspiration for most Pakistanis? Was that just because he was Muslim or his philanthropic work?

Rizwan isn't just liked because of his religiosity, but because of all characteristics that make him a likeable player in most eyes. Even the commentators adore his character.

The same extends to Hashim Amla, Moeen Ali, and to even non-cricket stars like Khabib. They aren't liked just purely because they're optically Muslim. They're universally loved because they've displayed character, heart, respect and sacrifice in abundance which they themselves attribute to their religion.
 
Are you claiming to speak on behalf of most Pakistanis? What evidence do you have to back that up or is this just hearsay and you're trying to pass off your personal experience as the collective truth of most Pakistanis?

Anyways, let's imagine most Pakistanis don't know about Muhammad Ali's work, but is someone like Edhi not an inspiration for most Pakistanis? Was that just because he was Muslim or his philanthropic work?

Rizwan isn't just liked because of his religiosity, but because of all characteristics that make him a likeable player in most eyes. Even the commentators adore his character.

The same extends to Hashim Amla, Moeen Ali, and to even non-cricket stars like Khabib. They aren't liked just purely because they're optically Muslim. They're universally loved because they've displayed character, heart, respect and sacrifice in abundance which they themselves attribute to their religion.

Bro, that is what my argument is. That you dont need spirituality to unite these guys or take inspiration from them.
 
Again with the hypothetical arguments.

I'm not annoyed by rebuttals in general, just those kind which essentially are based on red herrings, straw men, and essentially debate a point that was never even originally made. Basically, I despise poorly thought rebuttals. The kind that take the original statement of "Rizwan can be a source of inspiration" and hilariously extrapolate it to "the team should be *forced* to pray on-field". You see how ridiculous that is?

And no, I don't feel uncomfortable in someone criticising or questioning aspects of the religion. I live in Australia, and some peeps have had enquiries about this and I always answer acc to what I know. Like I said before, I just don't like people making trivial arguments when even they know it's not true. It's just counterproductive for everyone involved.

Literally almost everything you've asked me could be answered if you just watched the Hayden interview.

I'll address it anyways.



Yes, humbleness is a fundamental tenet of the religion. Spirituality helps shape character. This isn't just true for cricketers, but most practising Muslims. Do you disagree?



Well if you aren't irked by it, the team management isn't irked by it, the opposition isn't irked by it, then why bring it up in the first place? A tad bit of incessant questions about something that doesn't even bother anyone is slightly trivial, is it not?

bro you in your intial post said that Rizwan could start a trend of praying on the field during breaks which I said is not needed by more players

if the captain and more players are involved in on field prayers than it becomes a problem.

Infact, ICC might have to ban religious practice on the field because of Waqar comments.
 
bro you in your intial post said that Rizwan could start a trend of praying on the field during breaks which I said is not needed by more players

if the captain and more players are involved in on field prayers than it becomes a problem.

Infact, ICC might have to ban religious practice on the field because of Waqar comments.

Okay I see your point, and I think that's fair enough. We kind of look at it from slightly different perspectives but I can see where you're coming from.

Yeah, I do agree that Waqar's statement will definitely prop up that question. It was a ridiculous statement from Waqar, since it had no basis whatsoever. It also came across petty, especially with the Indian side expressing good intentions. Always reciprocate good gestures with even better gestures.
 
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Okay I see your point, and I think that's fair enough. We kind of look at it from slightly different perspectives but I can see where you're coming from.

Yeah, I do agree that Waqar's statement will definitely prop up that question. It was a ridiculous statement from Waqar, since it had no basis whatsoever. It also came across petty, especially with the Indian side expressing good intentions. Always reciprocate good gestures with even better gestures.

waqar comment is pathetic and comes from deep rooted hate against other religions which is embedded in our childhood text books. This also shows his thinking and mental calibre. The world is much more open and respectful for other peoples beliefs due to progress in media and should be rightly so.
 
It would be very disappointing if anyone thinks this was any issue. I very much hope that a respected poster like MIG Sahib did not feel any concerns and the need to raise this as an issue? Firstly, namaz is important to him and he was performing a religous obligation. Secondly - who knows - that moment of spirituality was maybe the exact thing he needed to calm his nerves and refocus. A lot of people say - keep religion out of sport. Well in that case - keep a player's personal religious obligations out of discussions also.
 
PS: As I have already stated on another thread- Waqar's statement was stupid and thoughtless and he has rightly apologised.
 
It would be very disappointing if anyone thinks this was any issue. I very much hope that a respected poster like MIG Sahib did not feel any concerns and the need to raise this as an issue? Firstly, namaz is important to him and he was performing a religous obligation. Secondly - who knows - that moment of spirituality was maybe the exact thing he needed to calm his nerves and refocus. A lot of people say - keep religion out of sport. Well in that case - keep a player's personal religious obligations out of discussions also.

I never stated that what he did was wrong. We simply asked the question as a point of discussion.

The only reason this has been put in a thread is because it is unique. We don't see this happen often or at all.

As for Rizwan's dedication to salah, its admirable and I am actually happy to see that from him but I also do not feel that others who do not do this are any lesser Muslims/people.
 
I never stated that what he did was wrong. We simply asked the question as a point of discussion.

The only reason this has been put in a thread is because it is unique. We don't see this happen often or at all.

As for Rizwan's dedication to salah, its admirable and I am actually happy to see that from him but I also do not feel that others who do not do this are any lesser Muslims/people.

Thank you for clarifying. Your original post asked several questions and it was not clear whether you yourself were questioning the rights or wrongs of the act or raising the point for discussion purposes alone. You have now explained this.
 
I find it disappointing to see posts (not referring to original post here but more so other threads) questioning religous aspects and symbolic gestures such as doing the sajda on getting a 50 etc. If I was a professional cricketer - would I do a sajda on getting 50? No - maybe I would just say a silent prayer. But I would not question the right of any cricketer to do this or suggest that it in any way reflects negatively on their attitude or hunger or desire. It is simply their right and a symbolic act which should not really even be considered a discussion point because by doing that it questions the rights and wrongs of this. If a christian crosses himself before a match or on getting a 50 - no-one would raise an eyebrow. A sajda is a more expressive action so it makes some people uncomfortable for some reason. The best way to separate religion and sport is to not discuss players religous acts.
 
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Seems our youngsters taking a leaf out of Rizwan's book

FHimky8XIAUMKLj
 
Calm down everybody.

He has promise, but his record this season is bloated by one huge innings.

Since someone has posted a picture of him praying, I think that it is fair game for me to say that that has me worried. It's a generalisation, but I find that in life there are people who are driven by science and learning and data, and people who are driven by faith. And the two groups rarely overlap.

I freely admit that my sporting hero is Eric Liddle, who was deeply religious. But I think that in general faith is the enemy of learning and of improvement, and I am inherently suspicious of religious sportsmen because I think they are programmed to underachieve because they don't analyse information properly.

You don't have to be educated to be able to analyse cricket - Michael Clarke was a far better judge of a declaration than Steve Smith or Ricky Ponting because he could work out probabilities in his head.

If you look at the all-conquering West Indies teams of 1976-1991 and the Australian team of 1995-2005, the two teams combined had one religious member - Matthew Hayden. One player out of around 50. And his inability to analyse and make the right choices kept him out of the Test team from 1993 to 2000!

So I worry about religious sportsmen and their ability to make decisions. And that photo of Huraira made me doubt that he will make it.
 
Calm down everybody.

He has promise, but his record this season is bloated by one huge innings.

Since someone has posted a picture of him praying, I think that it is fair game for me to say that that has me worried. It's a generalisation, but I find that in life there are people who are driven by science and learning and data, and people who are driven by faith. And the two groups rarely overlap.

I freely admit that my sporting hero is Eric Liddle, who was deeply religious. But I think that in general faith is the enemy of learning and of improvement, and I am inherently suspicious of religious sportsmen because I think they are programmed to underachieve because they don't analyse information properly.

You don't have to be educated to be able to analyse cricket - Michael Clarke was a far better judge of a declaration than Steve Smith or Ricky Ponting because he could work out probabilities in his head.

If you look at the all-conquering West Indies teams of 1976-1991 and the Australian team of 1995-2005, the two teams combined had one religious member - Matthew Hayden. One player out of around 50. And his inability to analyse and make the right choices kept him out of the Test team from 1993 to 2000!

So I worry about religious sportsmen and their ability to make decisions. And that photo of Huraira made me doubt that he will make it.

Probably the worst post you've ever made.

Listen to a Hurraira interview, and you will notice he is probably the most educated cricketer in Pakistan right now, probably after Shan Masood

He speaks better English than most, and is still studying to a high level.

He analyses the game very well.

You can be religious and still be smart.
 
Calm down everybody.

He has promise, but his record this season is bloated by one huge innings.

Since someone has posted a picture of him praying, I think that it is fair game for me to say that that has me worried. It's a generalisation, but I find that in life there are people who are driven by science and learning and data, and people who are driven by faith. And the two groups rarely overlap.

I freely admit that my sporting hero is Eric Liddle, who was deeply religious. But I think that in general faith is the enemy of learning and of improvement, and I am inherently suspicious of religious sportsmen because I think they are programmed to underachieve because they don't analyse information properly.

You don't have to be educated to be able to analyse cricket - Michael Clarke was a far better judge of a declaration than Steve Smith or Ricky Ponting because he could work out probabilities in his head.

If you look at the all-conquering West Indies teams of 1976-1991 and the Australian team of 1995-2005, the two teams combined had one religious member - Matthew Hayden. One player out of around 50. And his inability to analyse and make the right choices kept him out of the Test team from 1993 to 2000!

So I worry about religious sportsmen and their ability to make decisions. And that photo of Huraira made me doubt that he will make it.

What does this even mean lol? Look at Rizwan and his success. Has to be one of the worst posts i've seen on PP.
 
Calm down everybody.

He has promise, but his record this season is bloated by one huge innings.

Since someone has posted a picture of him praying, I think that it is fair game for me to say that that has me worried. It's a generalisation, but I find that in life there are people who are driven by science and learning and data, and people who are driven by faith. And the two groups rarely overlap.

I freely admit that my sporting hero is Eric Liddle, who was deeply religious. But I think that in general faith is the enemy of learning and of improvement, and I am inherently suspicious of religious sportsmen because I think they are programmed to underachieve because they don't analyse information properly.

You don't have to be educated to be able to analyse cricket - Michael Clarke was a far better judge of a declaration than Steve Smith or Ricky Ponting because he could work out probabilities in his head.

If you look at the all-conquering West Indies teams of 1976-1991 and the Australian team of 1995-2005, the two teams combined had one religious member - Matthew Hayden. One player out of around 50. And his inability to analyse and make the right choices kept him out of the Test team from 1993 to 2000!

So I worry about religious sportsmen and their ability to make decisions. And that photo of Huraira made me doubt that he will make it.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but yours in the above post, is frankly egregious.

The line 'faith is the enemy of learning and improvement' disregards large swathes of history when scientific progress in the Islamic empires saw advancements in the sciences and math whilst Europe was 'peacing-out' in the dark ages, sitting on their hands waiting for the Renaissance to come around. And all of this advancement took place, hand in hand with religion, under the concept of bettering one's self.

The very religious people you mock follow a religion that preaches the concept of 'tying one's own camel'. The context here is that despite acts of God, and laws of the universe, you control your own actions. By extension, you make improvements in life by self analysing your own actions.

Specifically on Hurraira, he has in past interviews expressed his admiration for Kane Williamson, especially Williamson's ability to put a price on his wicket. He's also someone, who has been self critical on his fielding, his backing up (he got mankaded against Afg in the previous U19 world cup). So, yes, a thoughtful, self analytical lad who also happens to be pretty religious. These two approaches are rarely mutually exclusive, when the religious person has the correct understanding of their own faith.

However, the tired prejudices of college educated folk from western countries are substantially more regressive than the very religions such people feel superior to.

You hilariously use the 'It's a generalisation' caveat to present as moderate your incredibly skewed view on religious folk.

Perhaps, instead of judging religious people's capacity to self analyse, you can self analyse your own warped ideas.
 
If anything - religion helps someone to achieve their sporting goal rather than be a hindrance. Islam teaches discipline, no alcohol, hard work and honesty - all great traits for a sportsman.
I am really surprised at this analysis.

Huraira is a Muslim and performed his prayers during a drinks break. Absolutely no issue with that. In the 70s, a majority of the Pakistan team were educated, not religious and drank alcohol. And won hardly anything. Religion is a personal thing and we should refrain from criticising people for their beliefs.
 
Calm down everybody.

He has promise, but his record this season is bloated by one huge innings.

Since someone has posted a picture of him praying, I think that it is fair game for me to say that that has me worried. It's a generalisation, but I find that in life there are people who are driven by science and learning and data, and people who are driven by faith. And the two groups rarely overlap.

I freely admit that my sporting hero is Eric Liddle, who was deeply religious. But I think that in general faith is the enemy of learning and of improvement, and I am inherently suspicious of religious sportsmen because I think they are programmed to underachieve because they don't analyse information properly.

You don't have to be educated to be able to analyse cricket - Michael Clarke was a far better judge of a declaration than Steve Smith or Ricky Ponting because he could work out probabilities in his head.

If you look at the all-conquering West Indies teams of 1976-1991 and the Australian team of 1995-2005, the two teams combined had one religious member - Matthew Hayden. One player out of around 50. And his inability to analyse and make the right choices kept him out of the Test team from 1993 to 2000!

So I worry about religious sportsmen and their ability to make decisions. And that photo of Huraira made me doubt that he will make it.

how did you make a connection that deeply religious persons lack the inability to analyze or study cricket for self-improvement?
 
how did you make a connection that deeply religious persons lack the inability to analyze or study cricket for self-improvement?

I was not the one who raised the issue of Huraira's religious faith. But I should address the rebuttals of my comments about his potential and the impact of religion upon it.

You will note that I actually specified that my all-time sporting hero is a man who was defined by his religious beliefs - Eric Liddell, who managed the incredible double of being the greatest ever Scottish sportsman and the greatest ever Chinese sportsman.

You ask why I have concluded that religious faith is often - not always - antithetical to (incompatible with)
cricketing success.

Well, I have data on which I base that theory, and a hypothesis for why it works that way.

As I wrote earlier, there have been two all-time great teams in my lifetime. The champion West Indies team of 1976-1991 contained no great players of any significant religious beliefs. The great Australian team of 1995-2005 contained one single religious player.

I would add that the international performances of Saeed Anwar, Saqlain Mushtaq and Mushtaq Ahmed basically fell off a cliff when they became more devout, while I don't think that any of the other recent Pakistanis improved after they found religion apart from Mohammad Yousaf.

And the case of Yousaf basically illustrates my theory elegantly.

I do not wish to offend my Pakistani friends by singling out their religion, so I will instead address the one earlier generations of my family followed, Christianity.

The few people of my age in Australia, New Zealand and the UK who are observant Christians basically had their beliefs drummed into them before the were old enough to think. They believe in things inconsistent with logical thought because they were given beliefs before they could analyse facts of any description. Many Americans are much more devoutly Christian - and much more conservative - because their beliefs were taught to them before they were capable of critical evaluation of information. Their beliefs pre-date their capacity for critical thinking.

Mohammad Yousaf is different - he actually exercised his own mind to switch religions as an adult, and weighed up all sorts of complex pros and cons in doing so. That's actually a skillset of reflection, decisiveness and capacity to change course which is not totally different to the one you need to go from being a good batsman to a great one.

Earlier in this thread @The_Googly gave the example of the westernised Pakistani players of the 1970s as people who were educated, unreligious and won nothing.

I would argue the opposite - that Intikhab Alam achieved far more than Shadab Khan but also that Majid Khan was more respected and feared during his career than Inzamam was. Majid Khan captained Cambridge University and played for Glamorgan in the County Championship and Queensland in Australia. Wasim Raja had a series away in the West Indies when he performed as a batsman on a higher level than any other Pakistani in any series, ever.

And Imran Khan turned himself from a rubbish medium-paced inswing bowler into the greatest captain and second greatest all-rounder that anyone has ever seen. And he did it through thought, reflection and a courage to overturn his beliefs and go in a new direction.

The 1970's Pakistan cricketers were really cast in the image of Jinnah. As a result of which they were in demand around the world.

An aspiring cricketer has the best chance of success if he learns to analyse his game, the opposition's strengths, weaknesses and strategies and his fitness and lifestyle. If anything, religion has the capacity to undermine this sporting development if a player thinks that by living a pious life and being religious he has a shortcut to success without having to put in the hard work on the game.

So privately when I see a young sportsman of any religion putting on a public display of his religious beliefs I worry for his sporting potential. I worry that he prioritises beliefs that predate his ability to think ahead of the hard, evidence-based task of analysing and improving his own game.

It was Karl Marx who described religion as "the opium of the masses". And it is quite ironic that when I see a young sportsman who is devoutly religious my next instinct is to worry about his future, whereas many of you who are more religious than I am have the opposite reaction.

I have the same worries whether that sportsman is a young Brazilian footballer or an Asian cricketer.

And it is part of the rich tapestry of life that a picture of Mohammed Huraira praying can have the opposite effect on me as a western male to which it has on many of the Pakistanis on this forum.
 
Rizwan on the way to Dubai on the team bus

17932_7420829_updates.jpg
 
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