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[VIDEO] Some pointers for Pakistan's left-arm fast bowlers from Trent Boult vs India

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xricket

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Highlights:
https://www.hotstar.com/sports/cric.../nz-vs-india-india-fall-of-wickets/2001625904



<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/8pmjt/gydapc" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Ok, so, yeah, the ball was swinging and probably in new zealand it does help pacers a lot, but they have to do the basics right to pick up the wickets.

Here are few examples:

Untitled3.jpgUntitled2.jpgUntitled1.jpgUntitled.jpg

Notice, how close he gets to the stumps as he delivers ball, and the up right seam (which doesn't wobble). and the full length deliveries on middle stump

And notice, a contrast with pakistani bowlers:

Check this thread:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...istani-fast-bowlers-lethal-anymore&highlight=

I mean, how difficult is it really to improve? This is frustrating for me, as I want to see our bowlers bowl to their potential, but it's like they try their best to not bowl like that.

Take an example of Amir:
1- Bowls with wobbly seam
2- Pitches the ball short
3- Pitches the ball too wide of off stump
4- Pitches the ball too much on leg side, to compensate for point 3.
5- Delivers the ball away from stumps


Do we even want to improve as a team, or what?

I would be interested in knowing your thoughts
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Capture.jpg

Notice the seam as it is ready to land. Magnificient. If you were to watch video, it doesn't wobble.

Use indian vpn to watch hotstar video highlights
 
Well Amir can do that and thats his strength. The question is why he doesnt pitch the ball up anymore and why does he bowls with a wobbly seam.

These are critical questions that he should answer.
 
pakistani pride said:
Well Amir can do that and thats his strength. The question is why he doesnt pitch the ball up anymore and why does he bowls with a wobbly seam.

These are critical questions that he should answer.
Click to expand...

Also, why our left armers are not being told to bowl close to the stumps. I think it's coache's job to tell this to the bowlers and work on their technique
 
Awesome thread. I watched the spell from Boult and Indians had no clue what hit them. I also think Boult's discipline through the spell stood out. Not a single bad ball that I can recall. Indians had to slog uglily to get runs off him. We need to have this template when we meet India in world cup. Amir, Shaheen are both capable of causing the damage.
 
You forgot to add the two most important things in this
1)swinging conditions
2) a bit of sluggish pitch
If you notice both sharma and Gill were caught and bowled, it's more to do with the ball holding up, more so than swing, I feel more than swing it's the sluggish nature of the pitch that did them in.
 
See the thing is boult was doing this even in the earlier matches but, more than the swing it was the nature of pitch that didn't helped him.
 
In his Interview recently Wasim Akram mentioned that Amir has developed a tendency where right before delivering the ball in his delivery stride he falls towards right side. This is why he is in position to get get inswing vs RHB.


Wasim said that it looks very easy on the eye but to fix this thing takes a lot of time and grind. When he developed such a habit he used a cone in nets and corrected this issue with lots of practice but with him it happened in later parts of his career.


Now Amir loses some height due to this as his body and arm aren't perpendicular. So


A. He is already short so gets less bounce than what he used to extract.

B. He cannot afford to bowl driveable length because he knows that he would be easily hit on the up for four. This makes him defensive

C. He cannot swing the ball back into RHB which used to be his main wicket taking weapon.



Another issue with Amir is that He doesn't have the strength and fitness to bowl fast at the moment.



Yes Ideally a left arm pacer should bowl closer to the stumps but Amir's unique talent was the ability to stay perpendicular even from wider of the stumps and extract late banana in swing at high pace.

Refer to this thread & OP

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?185913-The-special-talent-of-Mohammad-Amir



Watch video of Mitchell Johnson's dismissal in Test played in England and 1st delivery to Raina in Asia Cup T20 match Pak vs India 2016. Raina got beaten at a delivery bowled around 150 kph. At both instances he did not bowl closer to the stumps as like Boult for instance but he stayed upright.
 

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Once he fixes his issue of falling away at delivery stride only than can he fix his wrist and lock it in ideal way to get inswing. Only than can he bowl with perfect release and upright seam like Boult.



On a technical note at present Shaheen is better than both Amir and Shinwari but even he needs to work on his ball release and once he gets rid of wobbly seam than he wpuld become more lethal with the ball.
 
[video]https://streamable.com/8pmjt[/video]

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/8pmjt/gydapc" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
xricket said:
[video]https://streamable.com/8pmjt[/video]

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/8pmjt/gydapc" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
Click to expand...

The video gets downgraded a lot. Not sure the reason. Open link to see the actual seam position & for full HD experience
 
I only believe technical analysis of a fast bowler if it's done by the very best . This thread calls for brother [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] and his insights .
 
Whenever i watch Amir bowl these days, I question whether he has told the truth regarding his actual age
 
Savak said:
Whenever i watch Amir bowl these days, I question whether he has told the truth regarding his actual age
Click to expand...

Oh man. I had the same argument with a friend here. Maybe Amir's already close to 30
 
pakistani pride said:
Well Amir can do that and thats his strength. The question is why he doesnt pitch the ball up anymore and why does he bowls with a wobbly seam.

These are critical questions that he should answer.
Click to expand...

Crisis of confidence. He's afraid of getting spanked if he gets into a drivable length, and knows that his pace is not what it used to be, and neither is the movement.

Tbh, I feel like the balls used for ODI cricket might have changed a bit - even Bhuvi, who can make the new ball dance, is only getting slight movement these days.

In fact, Boult's spell here is the 1st time I have seen the ball swing appreciably, and for a decent period of time, in quite some time.
 
You do realize you have to swing from the hand and move of the pitch and a decent clip. NOt sure even Boult can do everywhere he plays. On certain days on certain pitches in NZ even Simon Doull, Darrell Tuffy, Jacob Oram were mighty effective. This is one of those lottery morning that NZ or opposition get. Remember how Suranga lakmal ran through New zealand in the test series.
 
Pakistan needs to pick more right arm fast bowlers compared to left arm bowlers. When its not swinging, the right arm fast bowlers get more dismissals into the game (lbw, caught behind, bowled, caught) while the left handers rely only on getting the outside edge or getting the batsman caught. This is true because most batsmen are right handers to begin with and hence right arm fast bowlers have the best chance of getting them out.

If you look at the bowling attacks of all nations, you wont find more than 1 left arm fast bowler. India has Khaleel who rarely plays, NZ has boult, Australia has starc, England dont have one, South Africa has one left armer, Bangladesh has Mustafizur, i dont know about Srilanka though. That's because they understand the simple logic that geometrically speaking, right handed bowlers create more chances against right handed batsmen who are more in number compared to left handed batsmen. Hence they use left armers as nothing but variety.

On the other hand when you look at Pakistan, they have Amir, Shaheen, Junaid, shinwari as their main fast bowlers and sometimes 3 of them play together in the side. Sometimes they play Faheem or Hasan too and if you look at the wicket taking ability, these two right handers have elevated the performances of the attack everytime they have played together. In the final against SA, Amir, Shinwari, Shaheen and Imad played together which makes 4 left arm bowlers. It was simply not going to work.

A left arm fast bowler should be added to the team only if there is no better right arm fast bowler in the country or if the opposition has too many left handed batsmen. Pack your attack with right arm fast bowlers and maybe just 1 left armer. You will see a marked improvement in the bowling performances.
 
Its not about right arm fast bowlers or left arm fast bowlers. It is about quality fast bowlers and Pakistan has quite a few to be honest. Only if the batsmen dont score just 240 on a 300 pitch.
 
There is a huge difference in Boult and Amir. It's not so easy to copy.
 
Boult is a much better bowler than Amir, it's like comparing Kl rahul with Kohli
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I only believe technical analysis of a fast bowler if it's done by the very best . This thread calls for brother [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] and his insights .
Click to expand...

Amir's problems are physical and mental, which lead to technical problems. The technical errors are a branch, not the root. He knows how to swing the ball. His seam is even more upright than Boult's. His problem is he just can't limit himself to stop searching for magical balls and settle with less swing with a straighter seam. However, he no longer has the lower body strength which helped him maintain an upright posture at point of delivery(as shown above) and bounce off the ground to impart massive amounts of revolutions which gave him that magical curve.

Now, you will often see him search for that curve which he sometimes gets in the first few overs(given conditions). If he doesn't find it, he just settles at back of a length defensive bowling. Even though, there still might be swing available if he straightens the seam. This minor adjustment might be a difficult one for him because his action is geared for maximum revolutions and relies more on the load up for swing rather than the wrist. But he no longer has that extended load up and bounce off the ground. To settle for less swing, he'd have to shorten the load up and rely more on the wrist.

However, this won't be necessary if someone can get him back to his top physical shape. I'm not talking about stamina, rather his lower body strength, to get his flutes firing like they used to. This takes targeted training, he'd have to work with a specialist.

The reason he looks so fatigued these days and dropped in pace is due to over-reliance on his torso and arm-speed rather than his full body. He doesn't have the muscle mass to maintain pace like that.
 
Sorry none of the Pakistan bowlers can replicate Boult in theory. Amir probably can do that but unfortunately it has to be a knockout game for him to feel the need to push himself. The rest of the bowling cannot do that. Shaheen is a brilliant bowler but he isn't a traditional swing bowler, his length is not full, Shinwari, well not good enough.
 
@Saj

if a regular poster is able to figure something like this out then what are the bowling coaches doing? those who have actually played the game on a professional level?
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Amir's problems are physical and mental, which lead to technical problems. The technical errors are a branch, not the root. He knows how to swing the ball. His seam is even more upright than Boult's. His problem is he just can't limit himself to stop searching for magical balls and settle with less swing with a straighter seam. However, he no longer has the lower body strength which helped him maintain an upright posture at point of delivery(as shown above) and bounce off the ground to impart massive amounts of revolutions which gave him that magical curve.

Now, you will often see him search for that curve which he sometimes gets in the first few overs(given conditions). If he doesn't find it, he just settles at back of a length defensive bowling. Even though, there still might be swing available if he straightens the seam. This minor adjustment might be a difficult one for him because his action is geared for maximum revolutions and relies more on the load up for swing rather than the wrist. But he no longer has that extended load up and bounce off the ground. To settle for less swing, he'd have to shorten the load up and rely more on the wrist.

However, this won't be necessary if someone can get him back to his top physical shape. I'm not talking about stamina, rather his lower body strength, to get his flutes firing like they used to. This takes targeted training, he'd have to work with a specialist.

The reason he looks so fatigued these days and dropped in pace is due to over-reliance on his torso and arm-speed rather than his full body. He doesn't have the muscle mass to maintain pace like that.
Click to expand...

Excellent analysis. The only question is why back of the length? He can still bowl fullish that goes across the batsman. There is a better chance of nicking him off to the slips.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Amir's problems are physical and mental, which lead to technical problems. The technical errors are a branch, not the root. He knows how to swing the ball. His seam is even more upright than Boult's. His problem is he just can't limit himself to stop searching for magical balls and settle with less swing with a straighter seam. However, he no longer has the lower body strength which helped him maintain an upright posture at point of delivery(as shown above) and bounce off the ground to impart massive amounts of revolutions which gave him that magical curve.

Now, you will often see him search for that curve which he sometimes gets in the first few overs(given conditions). If he doesn't find it, he just settles at back of a length defensive bowling. Even though, there still might be swing available if he straightens the seam. This minor adjustment might be a difficult one for him because his action is geared for maximum revolutions and relies more on the load up for swing rather than the wrist. But he no longer has that extended load up and bounce off the ground. To settle for less swing, he'd have to shorten the load up and rely more on the wrist.

However, this won't be necessary if someone can get him back to his top physical shape. I'm not talking about stamina, rather his lower body strength, to get his flutes firing like they used to. This takes targeted training, he'd have to work with a specialist.

The reason he looks so fatigued these days and dropped in pace is due to over-reliance on his torso and arm-speed rather than his full body. He doesn't have the muscle mass to maintain pace like that.
Click to expand...

I remember an Amir interview where the interviewer commented that how come Amir didn't bulk up ba little and why was he the same brittle toothpick as he was when he first started his career.

Amir responded very arrogantly. Listen I am a bowler, not a wrestler
 
Overanalysis lol Boult tried the same in the first 3 one dayers as well. Didn't exactly have any success with that.
 
Amir has been advised to control the runs rather go for the wickets as being the senior pacer in the team. When he initially started his career he was bowling to get wickets.
Also his pace has dropped the other things are the field set up for his bowling is not correct. I would always give a a fielder in gully and a fielder next to leg umpire.so he can pitch the aiming the middle stump.
 
Boult got smacked to all parts of the ground in India and UAE, most of the fast bowlers will bowl well in NZ conditions, that's no surprise and nothing to learn from these HTBs
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Amir's problems are physical and mental, which lead to technical problems. The technical errors are a branch, not the root. He knows how to swing the ball. His seam is even more upright than Boult's. His problem is he just can't limit himself to stop searching for magical balls and settle with less swing with a straighter seam. However, he no longer has the lower body strength which helped him maintain an upright posture at point of delivery(as shown above) and bounce off the ground to impart massive amounts of revolutions which gave him that magical curve.

Now, you will often see him search for that curve which he sometimes gets in the first few overs(given conditions). If he doesn't find it, he just settles at back of a length defensive bowling. Even though, there still might be swing available if he straightens the seam. This minor adjustment might be a difficult one for him because his action is geared for maximum revolutions and relies more on the load up for swing rather than the wrist. But he no longer has that extended load up and bounce off the ground. To settle for less swing, he'd have to shorten the load up and rely more on the wrist.

However, this won't be necessary if someone can get him back to his top physical shape. I'm not talking about stamina, rather his lower body strength, to get his flutes firing like they used to. This takes targeted training, he'd have to work with a specialist.

The reason he looks so fatigued these days and dropped in pace is due to over-reliance on his torso and arm-speed rather than his full body. He doesn't have the muscle mass to maintain pace like that.
Click to expand...

A terrific , insightful analysis as always.

Brother [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] , I nominate this post by brother Chief for POTW.
 
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