[VIDEOS] Ben Stokes - England’s best ever all-rounder? / England’s Test captain

TalhaSyed

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Watching the verdict tonight & you have the likes of Jonathon Trott and Mark Butcher claiming that Stokes is & will evolve to become England's best all rounder ever.

They are comparing him to the likes of Flintoff and Botham and saying that Stokes is up there, if not above them.

Personally - based on what Stokes has done so far - I don't see it.

What about others? Do they rate him so highly?
 
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Stokes will reach and surpass Flintoff for sure.

His burst of wickets in this test was like Freddy.
 
Flintoff- Yes
Botham-No

Although it makes no sense to simply say No or Yes without any logic or explanation.
 
He can surely be better than Flintoff but not sure about Botham, Botham is a legend of the game.
 
Not on par or above them 2 at the moment, little premature and hate to say it as usual English media hyping their players as next big thing. Taking nothing away from him as we've seen some great performances from stokes but it's an injustice to freddy and beefy to say he is even above them already. Though anything can happen in the future it could change
 
Agree, if continue to improve and perform, he could surpass Flintoff but even to compare Botham, he has to born again and start again. Botham was in a different league altogether.
 
He is phenomenal against pace and good at negotiating reverse swing when he comes late down the order. The 86 in Chittagong proved that he can handle spin on a dicey wicket. Could walk into any test XI purely as a batsman.

A bit mercurial as a bowler. Very good when the ball is reversing. The X factor in his bowling is his ability to swing the ball into the right hander. Most right arm bowlers swing it away. Can bowl at 140+ consistently.

Let's not forget he is a brilliant fielder, whether patrolling the boundary or at the slips. Nothing goes past those hands. Gives his 100% in whatever he does and wears his heart on his sleeve. Unlike "professor", Stokes is actually blessed in all facets of the game.
 
Needs to buck the trend of being a typical England player having only 2-3 years in full bloom, then maybe.
 
Flintoff was a world class all rounder for like 3 years and was extremely overrated. I won't deny that he was extremely talented but his reputation was built around a few good performances. Stokes can definitely surpass him easily. However, Botham was a in a different league. Stokes has a long long way to go to be even mentioned in the same sentence with Botham.
 
Promise is good.

But I wonder how many years he will last before fatigue gets to him.
 
He has definitely turned the corner big time as a batsman this year. His bowling tho is more of a bonus than anything else.
 
can become better than Flintoff maybe. becoming better than Botham is a big ask. He needs to have an Ashes MOS performance because thats what matters to the English the most. Without a dominant Ashes series performance most English fans and pundits wont rate him as high as Freddie and Beefy.
 
Stokes is as good a catcher as Botham and Flintoff.

He is significantly better as a batter and bowler than Flintoff was after his first 25 tests. Flintoff was Bothamesque for about three years mid-career, though.

After 25 tests Stokes has 66 test wickets at average 43. Botham had 143 wickets at 18, including this performance in Mumbai.

The young Botham was basically a superman. He was a legitimate top six batter who would run through sides with the ball - the quickest Englishman to 100 and 200 test wickets, bowling extremely long spells - he once bowled 24 off the reel against India, though I think there was a tea break in the middle. This bowling workload wore him out and he suffered cumulative small injuries, so that he was never the same bowler after his 200th wicket or so.

As batsmen I think Stokes and Botham will end up about equal, and ahead of Flintoff.
 
Stokes is as good a catcher as Botham and Flintoff.

He is significantly better as a batter and bowler than Flintoff was after his first 25 tests. Flintoff was Bothamesque for about three years mid-career, though.

After 25 tests Stokes has 66 test wickets at average 43. Botham had 143 wickets at 18, including this performance in Mumbai.

The young Botham was basically a superman. He was a legitimate top six batter who would run through sides with the ball - the quickest Englishman to 100 and 200 test wickets, bowling extremely long spells - he once bowled 24 off the reel against India, though I think there was a tea break in the middle. This bowling workload wore him out and he suffered cumulative small injuries, so that he was never the same bowler after his 200th wicket or so.

As batsmen I think Stokes and Botham will end up about equal, and ahead of Flintoff.

That's about right assessment. One thing is common among them, they all are very emotional and quite a few times gave those emotional performances. Botham was freakish bowler early on, too much work load was bad management by the POMs, he could have prolonged his career, with lighter workload.

You can see the passion of Botham in the Comm Box as well, he is always looking at positive side for POMs, a die heart fan!!
 
Stokes is a good player. Has potential to be the world's best all-rounder.
 
He is certainly getting there and is making an impact on different series, I do think he is a bit arrogant but what a player.
 
I didn't rate Stokes that highly but it was more based on stats and a personal dislike of him as a person. But following his performance closely in Bangladesh and especially in this Test match I have realised that he is definitely a special talent and is improving. I can now see why so many pundits and ex-players rate him so highly. I think he'll definitely surpass Flintoff, let's see if he can match Botham. I think it's crucial for him to control his on-field attitude. A future England captain too in my opinion. England have a lot of captaincy options post Cook and Morgan - Root, Buttler, Stokes, Broad.
 
He is the best all-rounder in the world in my opinion and his talent has been obvious since day 1, his lean patch with the bat after the 2014 Ashes notwithstanding.

I consider him a better Test all-rounder than Ashwin because his batting is more impactful.
 
He is the best all-rounder in the world in my opinion and his talent has been obvious since day 1, his lean patch with the bat after the 2014 Ashes notwithstanding.

I consider him a better Test all-rounder than Ashwin because his batting is more impactful.

Shakib is right up there. His only crime being that he plays for Bangladesh.
 
He is the best all-rounder in the world in my opinion and his talent has been obvious since day 1, his lean patch with the bat after the 2014 Ashes notwithstanding.

I consider him a better Test all-rounder than Ashwin because his batting is more impactful.

Absolutely poor with the ball. Anwar Ali level.

People overhype him and fail to see the Anwar Ali in him.
 
He needs to do more with the ball to earn some kind of respect as a very good alrounder let alone England's best. Average of 43 is nothing to write about.
 
Absolutely poor with the ball. Anwar Ali level.

People overhype him and fail to see the Anwar Ali in him.

Right, and when did Anwar Ali ever bowl as well as he did on a track with nothing in it like he did in the test just complete or bowl a spell like the one against the Aussies at Trent Bridge?
 
He needs to do more with the ball to earn some kind of respect as a very good alrounder let alone England's best. Average of 43 is nothing to write about.

Hundred percent agree. Trust me, if he was playing for an SC team, he would've been criticized to pieces.

The same we did to Anwar Ali and Bhatti.

Just cause he's English people drool over his mediocrity. No zip or penetration with the ball .
 
Right, and when did Anwar Ali ever bowl as well as he did on a track with nothing in it like he did in the test just complete or bowl a spell like the one against the Aussies at Trent Bridge?

U19 world cup. :najam other odd instances too.

A one off here and there doesn't matter. You go with the ability and overall performance.

He doesn't have the skills to remain good enough with the ball. Can't properly swing or seam it at pace.

Woakes is the real deal. You know a bowler when you see one. Ashwin too is great with the ball.
 
U19 world cup. :najam other odd instances too.

A one off here and there doesn't matter. You go with the ability and overall performance.

He doesn't have the skills to remain good enough with the ball. Can't properly swing or seam it at pace.

Woakes is the real deal. You know a bowler when you see one. Ashwin too is great with the ball.

That's odd then, given he's pretty consistently got the ball swinging in at a very good pace in nearly every match he's played... Particularly with the old ball as well.
 
Why all of you are mentioning his Bowling Average to be 43 when actually it is 34 ?


Woakes is very underrated Allrounder.
 
Even Woakes has the potential to be better than Flintoff, Botham however happens to be a different beast altogether.

Rate Stokes a lot and also find him to be a special bowler. His average as a bowler is deceptive, he's a better bowler than his average. One player who can easily walk into any 11 in the world right now.
 
That's odd then, given he's pretty consistently got the ball swinging in at a very good pace in nearly every match he's played... Particularly with the old ball as well.

Ok, I haven't seen that and don't rate his skills.

Why all of you are mentioning his Bowling Average to be 43 when actually it is 34 ?


Woakes is very underrated Allrounder.

Woakes is the real deal . Excellent strike bowler.

And the allrounder who will win you Test matches. Imran Khan esque.
 
Ok, I haven't seen that and don't rate his skills.



Woakes is the real deal . Excellent strike bowler.

And the allrounder who will win you Test matches. Imran Khan esque.

Woakes is a good bowler, but unlike Stokes he wouldn't get close to the team for his batting alone.
 
Woakes has 9 Fc hundreds and averages 37 with the bat in 120 Fc matches.


But Stokes has the X Factor and He can play an Agressive Test Innings which can turn the match on its head. And he is a superb fielder.


But the Averages & Strike Rates at which Woakes bowled this Summer are something Anderson or Even Steyn never achieved in any Season. Woakes bowling has improved Massively by two folds probably.
 
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Presume Robert typed the numbers the wrong way around then and meant to put 34.

Oops!

But just 66 wickets from 25 tests is a significant figure. He will get better as he learns to take wickets in tests but Sir Ian took 4 x tenfers and 27 x fivefers and Stokes will not do that. I think of Stokes as more like Chris Cairns than one of the eighties aces.

I think he will end up a better ODI player than Sir Ian though.
 
Ok, I haven't seen that and don't rate his skills.



Woakes is the real deal . Excellent strike bowler.

And the allrounder who will win you Test matches. Imran Khan esque.

I like Woakes but he is miles from being Imranesque. Imran was one of the best fast bowlers of all time and a top six batter too.
 
I like Woakes but he is miles from being Imranesque. Imran was one of the best fast bowlers of all time and a top six batter too.

He's not there yet, of course, but showed excellent promise in the series against Pak.

He was better than your primary strike bowlers in Jimmy and Broad. That's a big thing. Had more zip, more pace, shown more skill with the ball with the ability to move when Jimmy couldn't.

But yes it remains to be seen what he can do in Asia with the ball.
 
Stokes averages 60 with the bat and 20 with the ball in 2016.

Best all rounder in the world?

I think so..
 
Stokes averages 60 with the bat and 20 with the ball in 2016.

Best all rounder in the world?

I think so..

If he even manages to keep a performance near to this for 3-4 years then yes,one should always remember English weather or something makes English players just fade away.

Remember a thread comparing Bresnan with Kapil dev.
 
If he even manages to keep a performance near to this for 3-4 years then yes,one should always remember English weather or something makes English players just fade away.

Remember a thread comparing Bresnan with Kapil dev.

Yeah but just saying at the moment though. There is not really a great competition for the best all rounder title apart from Ashwin and Shakib. Ashwin I think is more of a bowling all rounder who can be a top 6 bat while Stokes atm seems to be delivering on both accounts. Shakib needs more performances against stronger sides, unfortunately he doesn't get enough tests. He will get a chance in New Zealand and in the solitary test in India.
 
Stokes is the 2nd best A/R in the world right now with Shakib at no.1. He'll never match Botham's bowling feats but may come close to becoming a batsman on Ian's level. Flintoff may not be a statisticians dream but his peak's were ATG worthy and cancel out the inconsistencies for me, we also need to factor in how Flintoff had a a wonderful series against that GOAT Aussie team in 2005; Is Stokes capable of such feats? am not so sure.
 
Absolutely poor with the ball. Anwar Ali level.

People overhype him and fail to see the Anwar Ali in him.

He is a thousand times better than Anwar with the bat and comfortably better with the ball as well. No doubt he needs to improve as a bowler but he has a lot of qualities that Anwar doesn't.

He is good with reverse-swing and is much quicker than Anwar.

Comparing him to Anwar is not better than comparing Tendulkar to Hafeez.
 
He is a thousand times better than Anwar with the bat and comfortably better with the ball as well. No doubt he needs to improve as a bowler but he has a lot of qualities that Anwar doesn't.

He is good with reverse-swing and is much quicker than Anwar.

Comparing him to Anwar is not better than comparing Tendulkar to Hafeez.

How does he actually reverse the ball. I mean his bowling action isn't at all suitable when it comes to reverse the ball.


But strangely he's the one who actually fooled most of the Bangla batters with his reverse swing. I mean, he doesn't bowl full length delivers, has a rater straight arm action but still he can reverse the significantly more than other English bowlers.


What's so special about his action which allows him to reverse the ball.
 
How does he actually reverse the ball. I mean his bowling action isn't at all suitable when it comes to reverse the ball.


But strangely he's the one who actually fooled most of the Bangla batters with his reverse swing. I mean, he doesn't bowl full length delivers, has a rater straight arm action but still he can reverse the significantly more than other English bowlers.


What's so special about his action which allows him to reverse the ball.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] any idea why he is able to do it,since i remember you saying something on Umesh's reverse once being not exactly genuine.
 
Stokes has an away series MOS in South Africa and has won a game in Bangladesh now. So he has been doing good away from home and hence has pretty fair claim to be regarded as best AR of the world.

Ashwin led his side to series victory with both ball and bat in West Indies but I would like to see more of him in England / AUS/ SA.
 
Amazing performances by Stokes in this match - once again showing he is the best all-rounder on show in world cricket (my view)
 
Watching the verdict tonight & you have the likes of Jonathon Trott and Mark Butcher claiming that Stokes is & will evolve to become England's best all rounder ever.

They are comparing him to the likes of Flintoff and Botham and saying that Stokes is up there, if not above them.

Personally - based on what Stokes has done so far - I don't see it.

What about others? Do they rate him so highly?

Happy to accept that Stokes is proving me wrong.

If you asked me a year ago I would have gone for Flintoff or Botham - however, after the World Cup, Trent Bridge Test Match and performances like in this Test match he is fast cementing his place as England's best ever all rounder.
 
Best ever, even better than Botham, seriously ??, when was the last time he ran through a side in test, the way Botham used to do , has won ashes for England sigle-handedly ?
 
Someone said he's worse than Anwar Ali???? :imad

Did I just read that correctly? Anwar fricking Ali? :murali PPers are the best
 
Best or not,but he gives everything he has for the team. He has knack of winning games from nowhere. One of the most committed cricketers u will see.
 
Each one for himself, but for me he became the best ever English all rounder the day he won WC for England from a hopeless situation. England need 22 off nine balls, and Stokes scored each of those 21 runs to tie the match. Yes he was lucky, thanks to Dharmasena but you don't achieve greatness without luck. Man of the match in the final of the WC, enough said. The man surely knows to seize the moment.
 
Each one for himself, but for me he became the best ever English all rounder the day he won WC for England from a hopeless situation. England need 22 off nine balls, and Stokes scored each of those 21 runs to tie the match. Yes he was lucky, thanks to Dharmasena but you don't achieve greatness without luck. Man of the match in the final of the WC, enough said. The man surely knows to seize the moment.

This is quiet a turn around given that he was the match loser in the T20 final against Brathwhite.
 
Statistically he is not much with the ball, but he does perform in clutch situations.

Among England ARs in my lifetime I would put him third behind Botham and Greig, and ahead of Flintoff.
 
Best ever, even better than Botham, seriously ??, when was the last time he ran through a side in test, the way Botham used to do , has won ashes for England sigle-handedly ?

He is a batter more than bowler. Botham was a bowler more than a batter.
 
Statistically he is not much with the ball, but he does perform in clutch situations.

Among England ARs in my lifetime I would put him third behind Botham and Greig, and ahead of Flintoff.

England haven't produced a single ATG since Botham. I think they finally have got one now.
 
He's not overly consistent but what a match winner.

Just behind Smith, Kohli and probably Warner in that regard.
 
He is the best one apart from Botham.
 
best ever all rounder after kalis and sobers. better than botham.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. philander has an average of 23. does that make him as good as wasim or waqar? no

stokes is a pure match winner. He is truly special.

dude freaking bowls his heart out at 140 plus consistently for 20 overs and then performs with the bat too. What a player he is. Takes crucial wickets. Scores crucial runs.
 
botham better atm. Remember Botham had an absolutely crazy peak as well.

Above comment very modern biased, Miller, Imran, Botham, Hadlee, Proctor, Davidson all better. Potentially blokes like benaud as we;;
 
Remember botham scored 15 test hundreds which is brilliant for a genuine world class allrounder

Stokes is better batsmen than Botham which means although Botham was very good as well but Stokes is better IMO.

As a bowler, Botham was excellent while Stokes is above average.

On 10, if I have to rate both it will be

Player- Bat/bowl

Stokes- 7/6
Botham- 6/8
 
Stokes is better batsmen than Botham which means although Botham was very good as well but Stokes is better IMO.

As a bowler, Botham was excellent while Stokes is above average.

On 10, if I have to rate both it will be

Player- Bat/bowl

Stokes- 7/6
Botham- 6/8

Would agree. Stokes probably more valuable to current England team due to its weak batting but Botham more suited in an ATG team
 
could we say he is the best batting all rounder after kalis and sobers?

best bowling all rounder would be imran khan

best all rounder overall would be kalis.

kalis and sobers are conplete all rounders.

like botham vs stokes is hard to compare.
stokes is a better batsman. botham is a better bowler. stokes takes crucial wickets though. botham has some good batting performances but not as many match winning ones like stokes.
 
When you consider their respective weaker suits, Botham's batting is definitely better than Stoke's bowling.

So at present Botham is ahead but that can change because I reckon Stokes has at least another 5-6 years.
 
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