Was Imran Khan a defensive ODI batsman? Did he lack a power game?

[Slog]

Discuss.

Often an argument is made that a reason why someone like a Kapil Dev may arguably be better in the ODI format is that 's batting Kapil had an insane power game which was ahead of its time with a 90+ SR whereas Imran Khan had a 73 SR. So Imran Khan did not have the ability to accelerate

 

[Slog]

Some of IK's high octane innings are shown below

Runs BF SR Pos Opposition Date
25* 9 277.77 6 v West Indies 15-Nov-85
39 20 195 7 v Sri Lanka 25-Oct-87
37 19 194.73 7 v West Indies 17-Dec-88
43 24 179.16 5 v India 23-Oct-91
56* 33 169.69 5 v Sri Lanka 9-Jun-83
67* 41 163.41 6 v West Indies 7-Jan-89
44* 27 162.96 5 v Sri Lanka 13-Jan-92
27* 21 128.57 7 v West Indies 18-Nov-86
47* 39 120.51 7 v India 28-Oct-89
32* 27 118.51 6 v Australia 24-Feb-85
32 27 118.51 6 v Sri Lanka 31-Dec-89
26 22 118.18 6 v Australia 15-Jan-84
39 34 114.7 8 v West Indies 16-Mar-77
24 21 114.28 6 v West Indies 25-Oct-89
73 65 112.3 6 v India 24-Mar-87
31 28 110.71 6 v West Indies 16-Jan-82
45 41 109.75 6 v West Indies 14-Oct-89
60* 56 107.14 6 v West Indies 17-Oct-89
79* 74 106.75 5 v New Zealand 20-Jun-83
42 40 105 4 v Australia 10-Jan-89
53* 51 103.92 6 v West Indies 9-Nov-90
50* 53 94.33 5 v Sri Lanka 24-Mar-89
82 89 92.13 6 v Australia 11-Feb-90
49 59 83.05 5 v India 3-Dec-82

So clearly he had the ability to play at a high Strike rate. But obviously having a weak middle order meant that often he had to play the anchor role and just take the game to the last overs to maximize score.

A batsman like Kapil could average 23.8 @ 95. But lets say if he had been more responsible and averaged mid 30s like Imran at a slower SR would that have benefited India more or not?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Imran is a great player.. Quite a dynamic batsman also as you rightly pointed out. Deserves respect.

but I think brother you're estimating Kapil's batting ability by people's comments on ODI cricket only when in fact it is some of Kapil's test knocks that established his status as one of the most clinical lower order batsmen ever.

He has a couple of run-a-ball test centuries against West Indies pace quartet, did similar things to England, Pakistan at times.

 

[Junaids]

Imran's role was quite different to Kapil Dev's, in my opinion.

Nobody had invented the role of "finisher" in ODI cricket in Imran's career. The model was really standard: bat all your overs and aim for a Run Rate of 4.6, so that in a 50 overs ODI you scored 230 and in a 60 overs ODI you scored 275.

Imran very rarely had to come in and slog to achieve that. He either came in with the team having lost early wickets and had to build a slow innings, like in the 1992 Semi and Final, or else he didn't bat at all.

In addition, when Pakistan batted second he came in lower down the order because after bowling at 15K faster than Kapil Dev he was usually far more fatigued.

 

[Bhaijaan]

In addition, when Pakistan batted second he came in lower down the order because after bowling at 15K faster than Kapil Dev he was usually far more fatigued.

If anything, it is the reverse that is true. Kapil was a one man pace attack for literally most of his test/ODI career. Burden of that magnitude meant he had to compromise on pace. Never claiming he was in the league of Holding/Lillee in terms of pace (neither was Imran for that matter) but a young Kapil was probably at Mohammad Shami level pace of today.

Imran had Wasim/Waqar/Sarfraz/Aaqib to share the burden with. It helps immensely when you can afford to bowl in short busts and strategically plan when to put the peddle on the gas. History is testament to the fact that pacers benefit from a triplet/quartet in terms of statistics. India's current bowling attack is a great example. If each of Bumrah/Ishant/Shami were to lead Bangladesh attack during last 3 years there stats would not look as good. They would have more 5fers probably but at a higher average/SR.

Kapil NEVER had that advantage unfortunately.

If you randomly pluck one pacer from the West Indian pace quartet and put Kapil in there (which WI would gladly take in a flash of second, and given Kapil's style of bowling, he's a 22-25 average range fast bowler in that group.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Of course, [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] is not belittling Kapil in this thread. He's only addressing those people who claim Imran isn't as good a batsman in ODIs given his SR. Imran was a dynamic lower order batsman who could raise his game on the big occasion and play out 20-30 overs as a proper middle order batsman. He's a world cup winning hero of Pakistan cricket and deserves respect.

 

[Slog]

Of course, [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] is not belittling Kapil in this thread. He's only addressing those people who claim Imran isn't as good a batsman in ODIs given his SR. Imran was a dynamic lower order batsman who could raise his game on the big occasion and play out 20-30 overs as a proper middle order batsman. He's a world cup winning hero of Pakistan cricket and deserves respect.

Yes my point is not to belittle him at all.

The point is that it is factually incorrect to say that Imran khan didn’t have a power game and was a tuk tuk.

Also if you look at his record; the lower down in the order he batted his Strike rate is higher. People just look at a 73 SR and assume he was a slow batsman incapable of big hits

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yes my point is not to belittle him at all.

The point is that it is factually incorrect to say that Imran khan didn’t have a power game and was a tuk tuk.

Also if you look at his record; the lower down in the order he batted his Strike rate is higher. People just look at a 73 SR and assume he was a slow batsman incapable of big hits

Imran could shift gear as a batsman which Botham and Kapil could not. Botham probably but Kapil no way. Kapil was a technically superior and mentally stronger version of Afridi as a batsman. Sometimes the image sticks and you become a victim of it. Also probably India's style of batting/occupying the crease in the middle overs probably meant Kapil mostly came in having to whack it as his primary job.

imran could bat at #5 for India in 2019 world cup and we would be thankful for it We had a missing middle/lower middle order. Someone like Imran would have been great for us there.

 

[Savak]

Kapil Dev could never be relied upon to play a responsible innings for team depending on the match situation. He was very one dimensional and it would be die by the sword.

Imran was more responsible with the bat especially upon becoming the captain and could shift gears when needed.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Kapil Dev could never be relied upon to play a responsible innings for team depending on the match situation. He was very one dimensional and it would be die by the sword.

Imran was more responsible with the bat especially upon becoming the captain and could shift gears when needed.

Let's just say Kapil had a different approach.

When 24 runs were needed to save follow on with 1 wicket in hand, Kapil succeeded in doing so. Not by playing out 10 overs with the 11th batsman but by hitting 4 consecutive sixes.

That 175 of his when he came in at 17/5 in 1983 world cup is arguably the greatest rescue knock ever played in ODIs.

 

[Robert]

He was a bit like Stokes. He would grind it out if Pakistan lost top order wickets, take the game deep and smash it in the death overs.

Well I remember him lifting Emburey out of the ground off the last ball of a classic 1987 ODI.

 

[Robert]

Imran could shift gear as a batsman which Botham and Kapil could not. Botham probably but Kapil no way. Kapil was a technically superior and mentally stronger version of Afridi as a batsman. Sometimes the image sticks and you become a victim of it. Also probably India's style of batting/occupying the crease in the middle overs probably meant Kapil mostly came in having to whack it as his primary job.

imran could bat at #5 for India in 2019 world cup and we would be thankful for it We had a missing middle/lower middle order. Someone like Imran would have been great for us there.

I watched Botham bat all day for just fifty against Imran, Wasim and Qadir. He could dig in when he wanted to.

 

[Robert]

Another time I watched Botham block out the last over with all men round the bat, with scores level but one wicket fewer lost, to win the game.

 

[Greenstorm]

Imran Khan was cleanest striker of the ball that Pakistan has ever produced. Such smooth bat swing.

Decide for yourself.

That last six must have been 100+ meters.

 

[Mamoon]

He may not have been a defensive batsman in general, but that innings in the 92 World Cup semifinal was awful.

Had he played that innings in the age of social media and PakPassion and if Pakistan would have lost, he would have been blasted like no tomorrow.

It was as bad an innings as Misbah’s Mohali, but Inzamam and Miandad saved the day for him.

No wonder he rated Inzamam so highly. The man prevented Imran from playing one of the greatest match-losing innings in World Cup history.

People defend that innings today because he apparently held the innings together and didn’t allow the team to collapse, but that is how the narrative changes based on the outcome of the match.

Had Umar Akmal and Afridi done an Inzamam and Miandad in Mohali and won the match for Pakistan, people would have showered similar praise on Misbah and how his tuk tuk prevented Pakistan from crumbling like cookie.

Nevertheless, Imran did redeem himself in the final.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Reading the write up and performances, it feels like Imran was like Dhoni/Stokes and Kapil Dev more like Afridi. The latter knew only one way to bat and it reflects in their performances. Imran like Dhoni and Stokes was more nuanced and could bat the way the situation demanded him. No wonder everyone prefers Imran in their all time XIs ahead of Kapil Dev - who only the biased Indians would prefer.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

PP viewers forget Imran's successive 3 sixes that won the 3rd test at Karachi v India in 1978 when Pakistan faced a daunting target.On that day he was as mercurial as anybody and above all instrumental in taking Pakistan to glory.Remember his precious 79 in the last quarter final game in a winning cause in 1983 world cup v New Zealand in a partnership wit Zaheer Abbas.I also remember his 3 sixes of Joel Garner in one over in Sharjah in 1985.

 

[Swashbuckler]

No. Imran had power game, just that he knew how to put a price on his wicket and hence became a more versatile batsman over the years. 73 SR was quite good for that era.

Kapil was a bit like Afridi albeit more accomplished technically, he often played to the galleries and hardly bothered about staying not out. As FC said Kapil's reputation came from his test batting where he would play at 80+ SR like Sehwag. When he was on his last legs he scored a quickfire 130 on a greentop at Port Elizabeth, while other SA and Ind batsmen were going at 20-30 SR.

 

[Bewal Express]

Discuss.

Often an argument is made that a reason why someone like a Kapil Dev may arguably be better in the ODI format is that 's batting Kapil had an insane power game which was ahead of its time with a 90+ SR whereas Imran Khan had a 73 SR. So Imran Khan did not have the ability to accelerate

IK was not a natural batsman, he was a batsman who learnt to play. He was sometimes too technical and strike rotation was a problem at times but he could hit the ball when he wanted to. Hitting the likes of Joel Garner for 3 sixes in an over, isnt a minor achievement. Kapil Dev was a beautiful natural striker of the ball, but like Botham he underachieved as a batsman.

 

[Ab Fan]

Imran Khan is like Ravindra Jadeja while Kapil Dev is like Hardik Pandya in simple modern era terms

 

[Bhaijaan]

It would be criminal to call Kapil Dev an equivalent of Afridi as a batsman. There was some genius in a lot of shots Kapil pulled off with an unmatched swagger.

Pause to 1: 50 in this video below. I would take my hat off to any top rated batsman today to play that shot against a bowler of the aura that Bob Willis carried with the wind behind him.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2AsSJw_QnKk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I celebrate the fact that Kapil was raw and unique as a batsman for his position.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Imran Khan is like Ravindra Jadeja while Kapil Dev is like Hardik Pandya in simple modern era terms

It weirdly does make sense because Imran is always looked at as a bowling AR while Kapil;s blistering batting overshadowed the fact he retired with a world record 434 test wickets.

 

[Bewal Express]

He may not have been a defensive batsman in general, but that innings in the 92 World Cup semifinal was awful.

Had he played that innings in the age of social media and PakPassion and if Pakistan would have lost, he would have been blasted like no tomorrow.

It was as bad an innings as Misbah’s Mohali, but Inzamam and Miandad saved the day for him.

No wonder he rated Inzamam so highly. The man prevented Imran from playing one of the greatest match-losing innings in World Cup history.

People defend that innings today because he apparently held the innings together and didn’t allow the team to collapse, but that is how the narrative changes based on the outcome of the match.

Had Umar Akmal and Afridi done an Inzamam and Miandad in Mohali and won the match for Pakistan, people would have showered similar praise on Misbah and how his tuk tuk prevented Pakistan from crumbling like cookie.

Nevertheless, Imran did redeem himself in the final.

You do know that the whole game plan for most countries in those days was to keep wickets in hand, and then hit out at the end. The plan evolved out of English county cricket where all these guys played, in county cricket the ball moved early morning and you had avoid losing the game in the 1st few overs. Its a bit like you claiming that people of the past were backward because they didnt have mobile phones. The plan worked, although IK struggled mainly because he was past it by then.

 

[burger_uno]

great batsman. first to successfully play the power game in pakistan and turned himself into a very good stopper as well. 1999 world cup final could have been much more competitive had anyone in that batting lineup played the role imran did at the end of 1993 world cup. over twenty five years since he has retired but no one has even come close to even matching what imran khan bought to the table in pakistan team.

 

[Zaz]

Imran could be as explosive as they come

Its just that he had a different role He was orthodox and played like more of a upper order batsman according to the situation

A strike rate of 73 back then was very good and easily in the 90s in this day and age

 

[Bewal Express]

Imran could be as explosive as they come

Its just that he had a different role He was orthodox and played like more of a upper order batsman according to the situation

A strike rate of 73 back then was very good and easily in the 90s in this day and age

I was at Edgebaston in 87, and his hit off Greg Thomas remains one of the biggest hits in Bham- straight out of the ground.

 

[Mamoon]

You do know that the whole game plan for most countries in those days was to keep wickets in hand, and then hit out at the end. The plan evolved out of English county cricket where all these guys played, in county cricket the ball moved early morning and you had avoid losing the game in the 1st few overs. Its a bit like you claiming that people of the past were backward because they didnt have mobile phones. The plan worked, although IK struggled mainly because he was past it by then.

The plan only worked because Inzamam played a crazy innings of 60 (37) which is rapid even for today’s time let alone 1992.

That is equivalent to scoring a 30 ball hundred today.

For example, if you are chasing 350 today and your number 3 scores 70 in 100 balls but you still win because your number 6 blasts 120 in 50 balls, you can’t say that the plan or the tactic of the number 3 worked.

It wasn’t a well planned chase by Pakistan. Imran played an exceptionally poor innings but Inzamam as well as Miandad saved the day for him.

Imran left the lower-order with a mountain to climb but it was one of those days for Pakistan where they were destined to win.

The fact that Pakistan managed to chase at 9 per over in the last 10 overs of a World Cup semifinal in 1992 and lose only 2 wickets is one of the greatest ODI miracles of all time.

 

[Bewal Express]

The plan only worked because Inzamam played a crazy innings of 60 (37) which is rapid even for today’s time let alone 1992.

That is equivalent to scoring a 30 ball hundred today.

For example, if you are chasing 350 today and your number 3 scores 70 in 100 balls but you still win because your number 6 blasts 120 in 50 balls, you can’t say that the plan or the tactic of the number 3 worked.

It wasn’t a well planned chase by Pakistan. Imran played an exceptionally poor innings but Inzamam as well as Miandad saved the day for him.

Imran left the lower-order with a mountain to climb but it was one of those days for Pakistan where they were destined to win.

The fact that Pakistan managed to chase at 9 per over in the last 10 overs of a World Cup semifinal in 1992 and lose only 2 wickets is one of the greatest ODI miracles of all time.

Its bit like saying the plan worked because we played well,the plan was to have hitters there at the end and it worked.

 

[PakPremi]

Young Inzi.would not have lasted for too long if he had to get 200 in partnership with Miandad. Its thanks to Imran ability to hang on and utilise overs for runs that Inzi could blast away. This is what Dhoni has been doing most of his career reasonably successfully even in this modern era, apart from his early years.

 

[Xoib]

He may not have been a defensive batsman in general, but that innings in the 92 World Cup semifinal was awful.

Had he played that innings in the age of social media and PakPassion and if Pakistan would have lost, he would have been blasted like no tomorrow.

It was as bad an innings as Misbah’s Mohali, but Inzamam and Miandad saved the day for him.

No wonder he rated Inzamam so highly. The man prevented Imran from playing one of the greatest match-losing innings in World Cup history.

People defend that innings today because he apparently held the innings together and didn’t allow the team to collapse, but that is how the narrative changes based on the outcome of the match.

Had Umar Akmal and Afridi done an Inzamam and Miandad in Mohali and won the match for Pakistan, people would have showered similar praise on Misbah and how his tuk tuk prevented Pakistan from crumbling like cookie.

Nevertheless, Imran did redeem himself in the final.

It's unfair to judge imran as a cricketer on his 92 exploits he was finished as a bowler and though he could still bat but he was on decline post 1990 and that shoulder further limited him.It was just pure willpower that pushed him through.

 

[Bewal Express]

It's unfair to judge imran as a cricketer on his 92 exploits he was finished as a bowler and though he could still bat but he was on decline post 1990 and that shoulder further limited him.It was just pure willpower that pushed him through.

Mentally IK was finished as a bowler after the Windies tour in 88. And I agree that he was literally on his last legs by 92, but as you say the sheer will power got him through

 

[MenInG]

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