Was Mickey Arthur wrongfully sacked?

[mominsaigol]

Once again I'm suprised no one made a thread on this as this is a discussion that should have happened either in 2019 or post wc 2023.

For me Mickey Arthur is one of Pakistan's most underrated white ball coaches and is certainly superior to the majority we've had over the years such as Misbah, Waqar Younis, whatmore etc.

First of let me start with the negatives of Mickey's coaching.

Negatives

1) He was possibly one of Pakistan's worst Red ball coaches and wasn't able to cultivate a team. Dude had zero vision when it came to Test cricket.

2) He failed to cultivate a proper spinner. Mickey was never a fan of specialist spinners and was a bit too obsessed with turning every batsmen into spinning allrounders, he even tried his hand at turning fakhar zaman into a part time bowler. This over the years would absolutely tank Pakistan's Spin department.

Positives

1) Role Identification

One of Mickey's strongest strengths was to not be narrow minded and look at things from a stats perspective.

Fakhar Zaman

When fakhar Zaman made his debut in 2016, he batted at no 4 in t20, many commentators including rameez Raja pointed out that Fakhar was mostly just a legside hack and didn't have the game for international.

Mickey on the other hand saw an X factor and decided to make Fakhar an all format opener which Brough wonders for pakistan in the odi format, especially his NZ wc 2023 innings and 2017 ct final innings being the absolute highlight of his career. (180,200,193 are getting honorable mentions)

Babar Azam

Similarly Babar Azam during his Zimbabar days would bat at 4-6, Mickey quickly realised that Babar was key at no 3 and should occupy said position in all formats, a mantra that Babar still applies in odi to this day, Again this move did wonders for pakistan before Babar’s 2022 regression, with his 2019 NZ innings being his career best odi innings to this date.

2) Future Planning

Most pakistani coaches often opted for quick fix solutions that ended up causing more harm then good for pakistan as they simply lacked patience and wanted immediate results.

A good example being Misbah selecting Muhammad Irfan for the aussie series thinking that Irfan's height would generate bounce on aussie pitches and would cause problems for Australian batsmen. What Misbah faiked to account was that not only is Irfan 37 and wouldn't threatn Australia, even if he did, irfan wouldn't have Been around for the 2023 wc anyway. Similarly Zulfiqar Ali Babar made his debut at 37 for pakistan back during Misbah's playing days and despite having a dream debut, he was never making it till 2015wc due to age.

Mickey on the other hand created multiple contingency measures for the future.

1) In 2019, he opted for Rizwan in the odi series, because he was looking for backup wicket keepers. Rizwan at this point had faiked and since 2016 wasn't even in contention to be in the squad, however Mickey brought his back because he was thinking about future replacements and backups.

2) In 2016 he brought back malik into the team after years of Malik sitting out and was able to convince Hafeez to let go of his opening ego and bat at no 4. Not only did these 2 contribute and helping pakistan achieve 2017 victory, But mickey also planned multiple replacements for these 2.

By 2018, Haris sohail was made a permanent member of the team to be the gradual successor for Hafeez post 2020, and due to knee issues that was not to be,

Mickey didn't give up, He tried his hand with Nawaz, Tried his hand with shadab, tried his hand at turning Fakhar into a part timer. When these tactics did not work, in 2023 despite having limited control due to Babar Azam's ego and refusal to adhere to hafeez's and Misbah's policy of taking abrar, Haris and Zaman Khan into the cup,

Mickey was able to fast track both saud shakeel(who can bowl as well) and Agha salman into the squad. Mickey's goal was to now make agha salman and saud shakeel the eventual successors to hafeez and malik which is why he batted agha salman at no 4 in the NZ series before Rizwan complained on the media and all plans were ruined.

Infact the Managment was so clueless, Babar thought that Saud shakeel was making his debut against NZ when he already had a half century to his name in odi prior. The original plan was to take tayyab tahir over saud Shakeel, but saud was fast tracked and I sense Mickey had something to do with it primarily due to his insistence on having either agha salman or saud shakeel to play at 4.

3) Similarly Shaheen Shah Afridi was selected as the replacement to Junaid Khan post 2017 ct.

4) Another tactic Mickey doesn't get credit for is his unique approach to play 2 left handed openers which worked. Ik people have issues with Imam, but Imam did perform before his eventual regression

Most of the rules such as Fakhar opening, Babar batting at 3, the introduction/reintroduction Of Imam, Rizwan, Agha salman, Haris sohail, Sohaib malik, Shaheen Shah Afridi etc are rules still in place today.

Overall Mickey was able to help pakistan get an icc trophy, Achieve no 1 rank in t20 and defeat an ATG England side in their home den.

He may not have been a perfect coach, but he was defo the best coach we had for a while.

Since then Misbah's coaching stint has set pakistan quite a few ways back, and Gary kristen so far hasnt done a damn thing as a coach, my guess is either because he does not care about pakistan cricket and is here for a paycheck or because Babar Azam doesnt let Gary do his job in the same vein as he didnt let Mickey do his Job either.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Micky Arthur was a lucky coach for Pakistan but obviously when you will do online coaching then it would be easier for board to remove him. Although they themselves assented to it in the first place.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

1st stint no. 2nd stint yes.

 

[ads101]

I think he was one of the worst coaches. He was backed more than any other coach in recent memory too unlike others.

He won ct 2017 at the start and made a career off that. We didn’t play well in that tournament till the last two matches where we dominated and deserved to win the trophy. Rest were extremely scrappy. I think it is very likely ct had very little to do with him, as he had little time to work with the players. I’m sure Sarfraz’s leadership had a far bigger role.

Tests and ODIs not worth talking about, he was terrible there. Especially decisions to not play 2 spinners against Sri Lanka in Asia in tests. Lost the series due to that decision. Was not a good coach in Asian conditions despite that we play the majority of matches there.

Is given credit for Fakhar’s success but this is wrong. Fakhar immediately performed on debut. He was not picked until midway through CT, where shehzad was finally dropped despite fans screaming for him to be dropped earlier as he was so bad. I have a feeling it is the opposite, mickey did not rate Fakhar, hence chose to start with Shehzad.

Preferred Malik far too much who was a passenger in ct. Was constantly at odds with Hafeez who was our best middle order batsman at that point (if you consider Babar as top order). It’s ironic as a lot of the success especially in t20s was because of Hafeez in good form then. Left Haris on the bench for Malik in CT, and Haris fell out of favour during mickey’s tenure. Especially when imam emerged, Haris’s days were numbered.

Kept touting Shadab as an allrounder, promoting him, focusing on his batting. He didn’t much care for genuine spinners, and is part of the reason why our spin stocks are so bad.

Constantly played Faheem who was a passenger in the sides. This was at the expense of developing a better batsman or bowling allrounder.

Failed in PSL with Karachi kings despite having the best squads at that time. Probably a major reason why that franchise is the worst of all time in PSL.

Over emotional with embarrassing press releases. Talked bad publicly about players, remember the Riaz situation. Extremely unprofessional.

Ask a Sri Lankan fan how mickey was. They got him simply to reproduce pakistans ct success. Was a nightmare for them. Australia don't exactly want him again either.

But the absolute worst thing was how players declined under his tenure. We had a lot of exciting talent coming in around the time of his appointment. Nearly every player who initially excelled when joining the team got worse over time. Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab examples. Good coaches are supposed to improve players. Instead it went in reverse. Our players got found out, and our coach did very little to rectify this and improve them. I don’t give him credit for Babar as a player like Babar would excel under any coach. Instead more lucky that he had a player like Babar to his disposal. It’s come out Babar isn’t exactly the type of batsmen that really follows coaches anyway. I think Mickey got lucky with an influx of talented players who performed on debut/initially like fakhar, Shadab, Imad, Babar, particularly Hasan for the ct win. Even had Amir back too. It was extremely disappointing in the years that followed we didn’t build on that ct win and new talent. We even lost our test form under him.

Allowed this culture of ignoring fitness. Our seniors before him at the time had good levels of fitness like YK, Misbah, Malik, Hafeez etc. The way that Sarfraz let go of his fitness under mickey was shocking. Especially for a player who’s main strength was rotating strike and picking up singles, which fitness is extremely important for. Ironically when Mickey was sacked, Sarfraz quickly worked to lose weight and get into fitness probably knowing that the next coach would drop him over it. Didn’t work as he still got dropped anyway as it was too late.

The biggest credit he should be given is how he developed and backed imam. Yet this isn’t exactly a player which a lot of fans are too happy with being in the sides anyway.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Mickey should have never been hired as an online coach for the 2nd time. These things cannot work in a system like Pakistan. I will say that for his 1st stint, it was a wrong thing to remove him but for the second time, PCB did the right thing to remove him.

 

[mominsaigol]

1st stint no. 2nd stint yes.

Mickey should have never been hired as an online coach for the 2nd time. These things cannot work in a system like Pakistan. I will say that for his 1st stint, it was a wrong thing to remove him but for the second time, PCB did the right thing to remove him.

Mickey had no power in his 2nd stint. Babar refused all suggestions.

3 people (Misbah, Hafeez and Mickey) told him to take imad waseem, abrar, Haris and zaman Khan into the squad because nawaz/shadab, Chacha and Hasan Ali weren't the answer.

Zaman Khan is trash but he's much better then hasan ali was in 2023, Haris could have functioned as a backup keeper to rizwan, Inad waseem could have replaced Nawaz and he was more fit during this time.

Babar rejected everything. Even a world class coach in Gary hasn't done anything so far because bobby won't let him.

 

[RidiculousMan]

He and Sarfraz shouldn't have been removed after 2019 WC.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think he was one of the worst coaches. He was backed more than any other coach in recent memory too unlike others.

He won ct 2017 at the start and made a career off that. We didn’t play well in that tournament till the last two matches where we dominated and deserved to win the trophy. Rest were extremely scrappy. I think it is very likely ct had very little to do with him, as he had little time to work with the players. I’m sure Sarfraz’s leadership had a far bigger role.

Tests and ODIs not worth talking about, he was terrible there. Especially decisions to not play 2 spinners against Sri Lanka in Asia in tests. Lost the series due to that decision. Was not a good coach in Asian conditions despite that we play the majority of matches there.

Is given credit for Fakhar’s success but this is wrong. Fakhar immediately performed on debut. He was not picked until midway through CT, where shehzad was finally dropped despite fans screaming for him to be dropped earlier as he was so bad. I have a feeling it is the opposite, mickey did not rate Fakhar, hence chose to start with Shehzad.

Preferred Malik far too much who was a passenger in ct. Was constantly at odds with Hafeez who was our best middle order batsman at that point (if you consider Babar as top order). It’s ironic as a lot of the success especially in t20s was because of Hafeez in good form then. Left Haris on the bench for Malik in CT, and Haris fell out of favour during mickey’s tenure. Especially when imam emerged, Haris’s days were numbered.

Kept touting Shadab as an allrounder, promoting him, focusing on his batting. He didn’t much care for genuine spinners, and is part of the reason why our spin stocks are so bad.

Constantly played Faheem who was a passenger in the sides. This was at the expense of developing a better batsman or bowling allrounder.

Failed in PSL with Karachi kings despite having the best squads at that time. Probably a major reason why that franchise is the worst of all time in PSL.

Over emotional with embarrassing press releases. Talked bad publicly about players, remember the Riaz situation. Extremely unprofessional.

Ask a Sri Lankan fan how mickey was. They got him simply to reproduce pakistans ct success. Was a nightmare for them. Australia don't exactly want him again either.

But the absolute worst thing was how players declined under his tenure. We had a lot of exciting talent coming in around the time of his appointment. Nearly every player who initially excelled when joining the team got worse over time. Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab examples. Good coaches are supposed to improve players. Instead it went in reverse. Our players got found out, and our coach did very little to rectify this and improve them. I don’t give him credit for Babar as a player like Babar would excel under any coach. Instead more lucky that he had a player like Babar to his disposal. It’s come out Babar isn’t exactly the type of batsmen that really follows coaches anyway. I think Mickey got lucky with an influx of talented players who performed on debut/initially like fakhar, Shadab, Imad, Babar, particularly Hasan for the ct win. Even had Amir back too. It was extremely disappointing in the years that followed we didn’t build on that ct win and new talent. We even lost our test form under him.

Allowed this culture of ignoring fitness. Our seniors before him at the time had good levels of fitness like YK, Misbah, Malik, Hafeez etc. The way that Sarfraz let go of his fitness under mickey was shocking. Especially for a player who’s main strength was rotating strike and picking up singles, which fitness is extremely important for. Ironically when Mickey was sacked, Sarfraz quickly worked to lose weight and get into fitness probably knowing that the next coach would drop him over it. Didn’t work as he still got dropped anyway as it was too late.

The biggest credit he should be given is how he developed and backed imam. Yet this isn’t exactly a player which a lot of fans are too happy with being in the sides anyway.

Good insight but I do disagree on certain points.

However good take overall

 

[mominsaigol]

I think he was one of the worst coaches. He was backed more than any other coach in recent memory too unlike others.

He won ct 2017 at the start and made a career off that. We didn’t play well in that tournament till the last two matches where we dominated and deserved to win the trophy. Rest were extremely scrappy. I think it is very likely ct had very little to do with him, as he had little time to work with the players. I’m sure Sarfraz’s leadership had a far bigger role.

Tests and ODIs not worth talking about, he was terrible there. Especially decisions to not play 2 spinners against Sri Lanka in Asia in tests. Lost the series due to that decision. Was not a good coach in Asian conditions despite that we play the majority of matches there.

Is given credit for Fakhar’s success but this is wrong. Fakhar immediately performed on debut. He was not picked until midway through CT, where shehzad was finally dropped despite fans screaming for him to be dropped earlier as he was so bad. I have a feeling it is the opposite, mickey did not rate Fakhar, hence chose to start with Shehzad.

Preferred Malik far too much who was a passenger in ct. Was constantly at odds with Hafeez who was our best middle order batsman at that point (if you consider Babar as top order). It’s ironic as a lot of the success especially in t20s was because of Hafeez in good form then. Left Haris on the bench for Malik in CT, and Haris fell out of favour during mickey’s tenure. Especially when imam emerged, Haris’s days were numbered.

Kept touting Shadab as an allrounder, promoting him, focusing on his batting. He didn’t much care for genuine spinners, and is part of the reason why our spin stocks are so bad.

Constantly played Faheem who was a passenger in the sides. This was at the expense of developing a better batsman or bowling allrounder.

Failed in PSL with Karachi kings despite having the best squads at that time. Probably a major reason why that franchise is the worst of all time in PSL.

Over emotional with embarrassing press releases. Talked bad publicly about players, remember the Riaz situation. Extremely unprofessional.

Ask a Sri Lankan fan how mickey was. They got him simply to reproduce pakistans ct success. Was a nightmare for them. Australia don't exactly want him again either.

But the absolute worst thing was how players declined under his tenure. We had a lot of exciting talent coming in around the time of his appointment. Nearly every player who initially excelled when joining the team got worse over time. Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab examples. Good coaches are supposed to improve players. Instead it went in reverse. Our players got found out, and our coach did very little to rectify this and improve them. I don’t give him credit for Babar as a player like Babar would excel under any coach. Instead more lucky that he had a player like Babar to his disposal. It’s come out Babar isn’t exactly the type of batsmen that really follows coaches anyway. I think Mickey got lucky with an influx of talented players who performed on debut/initially like fakhar, Shadab, Imad, Babar, particularly Hasan for the ct win. Even had Amir back too. It was extremely disappointing in the years that followed we didn’t build on that ct win and new talent. We even lost our test form under him.

Allowed this culture of ignoring fitness. Our seniors before him at the time had good levels of fitness like YK, Misbah, Malik, Hafeez etc. The way that Sarfraz let go of his fitness under mickey was shocking. Especially for a player who’s main strength was rotating strike and picking up singles, which fitness is extremely important for. Ironically when Mickey was sacked, Sarfraz quickly worked to lose weight and get into fitness probably knowing that the next coach would drop him over it. Didn’t work as he still got dropped anyway as it was too late.

The biggest credit he should be given is how he developed and backed imam. Yet this isn’t exactly a player which a lot of fans are too happy with being in the sides anyway.

Okay now that I have time I'll respond to this.

1) In terms of red ball I agree, my OP outright mentions how the biggest negative is that he was possibly the worst Red ball coach in existence for pakistan.

2) You're wrong about Fakhar Zaman. Mickey rated fakhar extremely well, reason he didn't have him over shehzad was because fakhar was a debutant so mickey wasn't sure if he'd perform in those conditions. He didn't want fakhar because if fakhar failed every ton dick and Harry would ask for fakhar to be dropped and likely him to be sacked as coach.

Mickey was the only coach to make fakhar an all format opener even in test and went out of his way to talk about fakhar as the X factor and star batter of the team. Infact during his stint the mantra of Babar being the best did not exist. Babar being the best came into play in 2019 against NZ and post 2019 when rameez raja and misbah hyped Babar like theirs no tmr.

He gave falhar the biggest extended run in t20 because he didn't see someone as a failure. Fakhar 91 in t20 was more then enough justification for him to be kept as an opener.

Before mickey came, falhar made his t20 debut at 4 for pakistan lol.

3) He may have been at odds with Hafeez ut he didn't remove him, he kept him at no 4 all the way till 2020 so I have no clue why you're arguing on this. Infact mickey was the only one who kept hafeez's ego in check and got him to leave the opening position which hafeez sucked at.

4) He didn't sideline Haris sohail, the whole reason he was hesistant for ct 2017 was because his own job and the career of haris sohail and fakhar was on the line. You're speaking with hindsight but had these guys failed this forumn would be filled with how fakhar zaman and Haris sohail fumbled ct etc etc whereas hafeez and malik get off the hook for obvious reasons due to playing since 2004.

He backed haris sohail all the way till 2019 and haris didn't fall out of favour, he had a knee injury and was discarded because of it. Infact as soon as his knee injury was cleared he was recalled but had to be dropped because the dude could not run.

5) None of the players you described declined during his tenure.

Hasan Ali declined in 2020 and it became noticeable in 2021.

Fakhar Zaman Was always inconsistent, but fakhar's t20 decline came in 2020 where deapite having better stats at no 4 then at opening, all of fakhar's highest scores are at opening and all his match wins in t20 during the no 1 ranked tenure are at opening whereas at no 4 his win loss ratio is much much higher. Aka more losses then wins.

Again shadab didn't decline during his tenure, Before 2023 people literally delusionally believed that Shadab was the best t20 allrounder due to his 2021 and 2022 t20 wc exploits. It's only in 2023 where he got exposed when he no longer had certain pitches to support him.

Shadab had good stats even in the NZ c side series but obviously that was masked because he was bowling rubbish half trackers and getting wickets due to a bad team filled with pitch elements to support him.

Even sarfraz who you cite as poor plummeted during Misbah's tenure. 2018-2019 was fine. 2020 and onwards is where things became noticeable.

The team is now more unfit then ever and that was not the case with mickey, so idk why you're associating 2020 declines with him when he was sacked with 2019.

Pakistan wouldn't have defeated an atg England team in their home den if the declines happened in 2019 like you are insinuating.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

In his second tenure Mickey didn't seem committed to his role. Those online sessions with team and his lack of interest in Pakistan cricket eventually led to his departure so i think it was the right call to remove him.

 

[mominsaigol]

In his second tenure Mickey didn't seem committed to his role. Those online sessions with team and his lack of interest in Pakistan cricket eventually led to his departure so i think it was the right call to remove him.

I'm talking about his first tenure.

2nd tenure he didn't have any power. The only thing he was able to convince everyone was to take agha and Saud shakeel as originally tayyab tahir was being taken over saud. Mickey did this because he was a huge fan of turning everyone into allrounders. First it was hafeez and malik, then haris sohail, and now agha and Saud.

Dude even tried to turn nawaz, Shadab, And even fakhar into allrounders which in hindsight didn't work.

But regardless, all his suggestions fell on deaf ears.

Mickey recommended imad wasim over Nawaz and both hafeez and Misbah agreed to this, Mickey reasoning was the same reasoning he brought inad into the team in 2016.

Mickey also recommended taking abrar over shadab, And zaman Khan > Hasan Ali + Haris in the squad as a backup keeper. Mickey even suggested amir which is why amir made that tweet.

All suggestions fell on deaf ears with abrar, Zaman and Haris only getting reserve slots.

Look at Gary kristen, he hasn't done jack for pakistan, how can he though? Babar doesn't let people do their jobs, the same way Misbah never let Dave whatmore do his job and often preferred waqar younis as his Yes Man.

Sarfi was the only one who listened, and tbf I'm not the biggest fan of mickey. Mickey was excellent in many areas like babar at 3 on all formats, Fakhar opening in all formats,

But his decisions to constantly give chances to every Tom dick and Harry he could find backfired alot.

He gave chances to Kamran akmal ans then to Rizwam without any context. Similarly god knows how many allrounders ranging from good ones like haris sohail and malik to bad ones like faheem ashraf he tried put.

Again I'll give credit to Mickey for experimentation, but many decisions he made were so random and just try puts for the sake of it.

It's alot better then Misbah and Babar though who only stubbornly play their favourites and buddies like shadab and Chacha while leaving people like abrar out.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I'm talking about his first tenure.

2nd tenure he didn't have any power. The only thing he was able to convince everyone was to take agha and Saud shakeel as originally tayyab tahir was being taken over saud. Mickey did this because he was a huge fan of turning everyone into allrounders. First it was hafeez and malik, then haris sohail, and now agha and Saud.

Dude even tried to turn nawaz, Shadab, And even fakhar into allrounders which in hindsight didn't work.

But regardless, all his suggestions fell on deaf ears.

Mickey recommended imad wasim over Nawaz and both hafeez and Misbah agreed to this, Mickey reasoning was the same reasoning he brought inad into the team in 2016.

Mickey also recommended taking abrar over shadab, And zaman Khan > Hasan Ali + Haris in the squad as a backup keeper. Mickey even suggested amir which is why amir made that tweet.

All suggestions fell on deaf ears with abrar, Zaman and Haris only getting reserve slots.

Look at Gary kristen, he hasn't done jack for pakistan, how can he though? Babar doesn't let people do their jobs, the same way Misbah never let Dave whatmore do his job and often preferred waqar younis as his Yes Man.

Sarfi was the only one who listened, and tbf I'm not the biggest fan of mickey. Mickey was excellent in many areas like babar at 3 on all formats, Fakhar opening in all formats,

But his decisions to constantly give chances to every Tom dick and Harry he could find backfired alot.

He gave chances to Kamran akmal ans then to Rizwam without any context. Similarly god knows how many allrounders ranging from good ones like haris sohail and malik to bad ones like faheem ashraf he tried put.

Again I'll give credit to Mickey for experimentation, but many decisions he made were so random and just try puts for the sake of it.

It's alot better then Misbah and Babar though who only stubbornly play their favourites and buddies like shadab and Chacha while leaving people like abrar out.

Yeah first removal was quite unjustified because team was doing really well and we were winning games. In fact latha players like Shadab and Faheem Ashraf were performing well under his coaching. So it was a pointless move to remove him at that time to be honest.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Not protecting Umer Akmal was his biggest fault. His second fault was not helping Mohammad Amir get the captaincy.

 

[ads101]

Okay now that I have time I'll respond to this.

1) In terms of red ball I agree, my OP outright mentions how the biggest negative is that he was possibly the worst Red ball coach in existence for pakistan.

2) You're wrong about Fakhar Zaman. Mickey rated fakhar extremely well, reason he didn't have him over shehzad was because fakhar was a debutant so mickey wasn't sure if he'd perform in those conditions. He didn't want fakhar because if fakhar failed every ton dick and Harry would ask for fakhar to be dropped and likely him to be sacked as coach.

Mickey was the only coach to make fakhar an all format opener even in test and went out of his way to talk about fakhar as the X factor and star batter of the team. Infact during his stint the mantra of Babar being the best did not exist. Babar being the best came into play in 2019 against NZ and post 2019 when rameez raja and misbah hyped Babar like theirs no tmr.

He gave falhar the biggest extended run in t20 because he didn't see someone as a failure. Fakhar 91 in t20 was more then enough justification for him to be kept as an opener.

Before mickey came, falhar made his t20 debut at 4 for pakistan lol.

3) He may have been at odds with Hafeez ut he didn't remove him, he kept him at no 4 all the way till 2020 so I have no clue why you're arguing on this. Infact mickey was the only one who kept hafeez's ego in check and got him to leave the opening position which hafeez sucked at.

4) He didn't sideline Haris sohail, the whole reason he was hesistant for ct 2017 was because his own job and the career of haris sohail and fakhar was on the line. You're speaking with hindsight but had these guys failed this forumn would be filled with how fakhar zaman and Haris sohail fumbled ct etc etc whereas hafeez and malik get off the hook for obvious reasons due to playing since 2004.

He backed haris sohail all the way till 2019 and haris didn't fall out of favour, he had a knee injury and was discarded because of it. Infact as soon as his knee injury was cleared he was recalled but had to be dropped because the dude could not run.

5) None of the players you described declined during his tenure.

Hasan Ali declined in 2020 and it became noticeable in 2021.

Fakhar Zaman Was always inconsistent, but fakhar's t20 decline came in 2020 where deapite having better stats at no 4 then at opening, all of fakhar's highest scores are at opening and all his match wins in t20 during the no 1 ranked tenure are at opening whereas at no 4 his win loss ratio is much much higher. Aka more losses then wins.

Again shadab didn't decline during his tenure, Before 2023 people literally delusionally believed that Shadab was the best t20 allrounder due to his 2021 and 2022 t20 wc exploits. It's only in 2023 where he got exposed when he no longer had certain pitches to support him.

Shadab had good stats even in the NZ c side series but obviously that was masked because he was bowling rubbish half trackers and getting wickets due to a bad team filled with pitch elements to support him.

Even sarfraz who you cite as poor plummeted during Misbah's tenure. 2018-2019 was fine. 2020 and onwards is where things became noticeable.

The team is now more unfit then ever and that was not the case with mickey, so idk why you're associating 2020 declines with him when he was sacked with 2019.

Pakistan wouldn't have defeated an atg England team in their home den if the declines happened in 2019 like you are insinuating.

He chose shehzad and Malik initially over fakhar and haris for Ct. he went against the majority of the fan base. If both of those had succeeded he would have been given credit as he went against popular opinion and fakhar wouldn’t have played. You wouldn’t exactly drop shehzad then if he was performing. So I can’t give him credit for that.

Sarfraz fitness was really bad in 2019. Same time he was pubically fat shamed by a fan. For a player whose strength is singles, it’s a real shame. What irritated me the most is somehow Sarfraz lost the weight when Misbah was coming in an attempt to keep his place. It’s like he was scared enough by Misbah and not by mickey. In recent past with afridi, Malik, yk, Hafeez, misbah etc we’ve had captains who set an example with fitness. Seeing Sarfraz break that was disheartening. Though yes sadly Babar is starting to do the same, though he’s nowhere near as bad fitness wise as Sarfraz was.

The guy has failed with Sri Lanka, Australia, Karachi kings, Derbyshire. I don’t think he did well post 2017 for Pak or 2nd stint either. 2019 was the right time to move on, he was given enough time.

The issue was we changed him with an inexperienced coach in Misbah. Had Gary Kirsten come in before for example, or even dean jones (RIP) who I feel never fairly got credit in PSL as it was attributed to Misbah, I don’t think you would have seen people miss Mickey so much.

 

[mominsaigol]

He chose shehzad and Malik initially over fakhar and haris for Ct. he went against the majority of the fan base. If both of those had succeeded he would have been given credit as he went against popular opinion and fakhar wouldn’t have played. You wouldn’t exactly drop shehzad then if he was performing. So I can’t give him credit for that.

Sarfraz fitness was really bad in 2019. Same time he was pubically fat shamed by a fan. For a player whose strength is singles, it’s a real shame. What irritated me the most is somehow Sarfraz lost the weight when Misbah was coming in an attempt to keep his place. It’s like he was scared enough by Misbah and not by mickey. In recent past with afridi, Malik, yk, Hafeez, misbah etc we’ve had captains who set an example with fitness. Seeing Sarfraz break that was disheartening. Though yes sadly Babar is starting to do the same, though he’s nowhere near as bad fitness wise as Sarfraz was.

The guy has failed with Sri Lanka, Australia, Karachi kings, Derbyshire. I don’t think he did well post 2017 for Pak or 2nd stint either. 2019 was the right time to move on, he was given enough time.

The issue was we changed him with an inexperienced coach in Misbah. Had Gary Kirsten come in before for example, or even dean jones (RIP) who I feel never fairly got credit in PSL as it was attributed to Misbah, I don’t think you would have seen people miss Mickey so much.

1) The point is to not listen to the fan base, the fan base is emotional and wants to rush things, Professionals should just do their jobs.

The difference between babar, Misbah and Mickey/Gary is that misbah and babar are inexperienced and egotistical and have zero idea on how to coach.

You're reading way too much into shehzad and Malik, Malik on 2016 scored a century in odi, a test double century and was in red hot form. Before ct 2017 it made no sense to have haris sohail over him.

Malik started being a passenger from ct 2017 and onwards throughout 2019 and even then he was Mile's superior to most of the allrounders we've had.

As for shehzad, I agree however shehzad got replaced in the end, and mickey backed Fakhar the most, even made him an all format opener. Fakhar at 4 and removed from the test squad was Misbah's decison.

2) Misbah, Hafeez, Afridi never set a single example for fitness wdym? Nasir Jamshed got woefully unfit under Misbah and so did many others during his/hafeez(t20 captaincy and afridi t20 captaincy) tenure lol. Or are you referring to their own fitness?

3) 2nd stint isn't his fault, even Gary is doing horribly, not even helping pakistan through to the super 8's and getting booted out by USA. Babar doesn't listen to anyone

 

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1) The point is to not listen to the fan base, the fan base is emotional and wants to rush things, Professionals should just do their jobs.

The difference between babar, Misbah and Mickey/Gary is that misbah and babar are inexperienced and egotistical and have zero idea on how to coach.

You're reading way too much into shehzad and Malik, Malik on 2016 scored a century in odi, a test double century and was in red hot form. Before ct 2017 it made no sense to have haris sohail over him.

Malik started being a passenger from ct 2017 and onwards throughout 2019 and even then he was Mile's superior to most of the allrounders we've had.

As for shehzad, I agree however shehzad got replaced in the end, and mickey backed Fakhar the most, even made him an all format opener. Fakhar at 4 and removed from the test squad was Misbah's decison.

2) Misbah, Hafeez, Afridi never set a single example for fitness wdym? Nasir Jamshed got woefully unfit under Misbah and so did many others during his/hafeez(t20 captaincy and afridi t20 captaincy) tenure lol. Or are you referring to their own fitness?

3) 2nd stint isn't his fault, even Gary is doing horribly, not even helping pakistan through to the super 8's and getting booted out by USA. Babar doesn't listen to anyone

Referring to their own fitness.

I, like many others had extreme doubts Malik would do anything in england. We were doing pretty badly in ct in group stages and surprised we didn’t make the call with Haris even midway. It’s a minor point but it’s just another example where I think he made the call wrong. As I said I don’t really blame him for those two, it’s more that I don’t accredit him for those two. But still a minor point.

2nd stint was a mess. This online coach role was dumb and never should have been offered. It really felt Mickey was just taking it for a free pay day and I don’t think his heart was in it, which regardless of his treatment doesn’t sit well as a Pakistan fan. I don’t think I would have accepted an online coach even if it was the best coach in the world. Took us to lower lows. Gary can’t be blamed for what he’s inherited, it’s too soon.

I would say I would have been thrilled if someone like Gary or any experienced coach had taken over Mickey in 2019. Which kind of suggests that Mickey was probably due for the sack. I think we look at Mickey at being unfairly treated because an inadequate replacement was selected. I feel confident a quality coach like Gary would have improved the side Mickey left in 2019. And Gary could have probably gone to any country and got a job. I sincerely doubt Mickey with his record in recent years could land an international job with a competitive team right now. We were the only country that probably would have offered him a job in the 2nd stint at that point. I feel Mickey should have had to earn his way back with successes with teams after a string of failures.

 

[ahmadharis1]

He and Sarfraz were definitely done dirty by their removal in 2019

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I think he was one of the worst coaches. He was backed more than any other coach in recent memory too unlike others.

He won ct 2017 at the start and made a career off that. We didn’t play well in that tournament till the last two matches where we dominated and deserved to win the trophy. Rest were extremely scrappy. I think it is very likely ct had very little to do with him, as he had little time to work with the players. I’m sure Sarfraz’s leadership had a far bigger role.

Tests and ODIs not worth talking about, he was terrible there. Especially decisions to not play 2 spinners against Sri Lanka in Asia in tests. Lost the series due to that decision. Was not a good coach in Asian conditions despite that we play the majority of matches there.

Is given credit for Fakhar’s success but this is wrong. Fakhar immediately performed on debut. He was not picked until midway through CT, where shehzad was finally dropped despite fans screaming for him to be dropped earlier as he was so bad. I have a feeling it is the opposite, mickey did not rate Fakhar, hence chose to start with Shehzad.

Preferred Malik far too much who was a passenger in ct. Was constantly at odds with Hafeez who was our best middle order batsman at that point (if you consider Babar as top order). It’s ironic as a lot of the success especially in t20s was because of Hafeez in good form then. Left Haris on the bench for Malik in CT, and Haris fell out of favour during mickey’s tenure. Especially when imam emerged, Haris’s days were numbered.

Kept touting Shadab as an allrounder, promoting him, focusing on his batting. He didn’t much care for genuine spinners, and is part of the reason why our spin stocks are so bad.

Constantly played Faheem who was a passenger in the sides. This was at the expense of developing a better batsman or bowling allrounder.

Failed in PSL with Karachi kings despite having the best squads at that time. Probably a major reason why that franchise is the worst of all time in PSL.

Over emotional with embarrassing press releases. Talked bad publicly about players, remember the Riaz situation. Extremely unprofessional.

Ask a Sri Lankan fan how mickey was. They got him simply to reproduce pakistans ct success. Was a nightmare for them. Australia don't exactly want him again either.

But the absolute worst thing was how players declined under his tenure. We had a lot of exciting talent coming in around the time of his appointment. Nearly every player who initially excelled when joining the team got worse over time. Fakhar, Hasan, Shadab examples. Good coaches are supposed to improve players. Instead it went in reverse. Our players got found out, and our coach did very little to rectify this and improve them. I don’t give him credit for Babar as a player like Babar would excel under any coach. Instead more lucky that he had a player like Babar to his disposal. It’s come out Babar isn’t exactly the type of batsmen that really follows coaches anyway. I think Mickey got lucky with an influx of talented players who performed on debut/initially like fakhar, Shadab, Imad, Babar, particularly Hasan for the ct win. Even had Amir back too. It was extremely disappointing in the years that followed we didn’t build on that ct win and new talent. We even lost our test form under him.

Allowed this culture of ignoring fitness. Our seniors before him at the time had good levels of fitness like YK, Misbah, Malik, Hafeez etc. The way that Sarfraz let go of his fitness under mickey was shocking. Especially for a player who’s main strength was rotating strike and picking up singles, which fitness is extremely important for. Ironically when Mickey was sacked, Sarfraz quickly worked to lose weight and get into fitness probably knowing that the next coach would drop him over it. Didn’t work as he still got dropped anyway as it was too late.

The biggest credit he should be given is how he developed and backed imam. Yet this isn’t exactly a player which a lot of fans are too happy with being in the sides anyway.

I agree with the Faheem's part , that he carried him.. but was he forced to or was it his choice... How did Faheem get his chance now in CT2025 and in the upcoming NZ tour withour even playing a match , ahead of Abbas afridi , Aamer Jamal , Wasim Jr and Jahandad Khan..

Before Mickey came , Pak had Azhar ali as ODI captain.. Azhar and Ahmed Shehzad were opening the batting..
Im damn sure no Pak coach could have made that move to put Fakhar at the top in all prestigious tournament of a CT 2017..

Mickey basically ended Shehzad's career by putting Fakhar at the top and ended Azhars odi days by giving captaincy to Sarfraz and putting Imam at the top..

He settled the top with Fakhar , Imam , Babar and also no.4 with Haris but his poor fitness didnt go well with him..

Mickey played Junaid khan and aamir together the biggest thing that Pak could ever dreamt of ... kicked the useless Wahab away... Wahab knowing that he will tormented by Mickey for his poor performances , faked an injury and ran outta CT...

he played Rumman Raees , and he performed as well that too in knockouts.

He backed Hasan Ali, Shadab , Imad , Aamir , Junaid , Rumman for the bowling unit and they all performed.. It was a young unit back then..

he brought Rizwan as backup for Sarfraz and also Haris as backup for Rizwan
Shan Masood is having a career now is because of him..

Mickey's forte is identifying talent and player development, which so far in the last 5 years nobody had..

In his 2nd stint he did see Agha as a replacement for Hafeez and Nawaz as a replacement for Malik.. it did turn out well, Nawaz is still a better option because both these players are good fielders...

If Mickey is a coach now , he will back Hasan Nawaz , Irfan Khan Niazi, Samad , Haris , Wasim jr , Jahandad Khan, Mohammed Ali , Sufyan Muqeem, Arafat Minhas, Kamran Ghulam and also might give a role for Omair bin Yusuf..