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Wasim Akram vs Dale Steyn: Who is the better overall bowler in Tests and ODIs

Who is the better overall Bowler?

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I have seen plenty of tests in which Akram could not take any top order wickets and he took a lot of lower order wickets. That is why I rate McGrath, Ambrose, and Steyn as better tests bowlers.
 
The_Odd_One said:
I have seen plenty of tests in which Akram could not take any top order wickets and he took a lot of lower order wickets. That is why I rate McGrath, Ambrose, and Steyn as better tests bowlers.
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That's why he wasn't the best bowler in the world at any point in the rankings, although anacdotally I think he was by the time of the 89/90 tour of Australia. The reality is that on their day all the guys mentioned were something else but over a period of time it's the ones consistently getting the good batsman that become ATG's.
 
Lol. I love how non sub-continental players are usually less talented and just hard workers.
 
Wasim is better than Steyn in both - Tests as well as ODIs.

Though, Steyn does have a chance to overtake Wasim in Tests, if he can keep these kinds of performances up for another 20-odd Tests and plays a bit more outside South Africa in that period, as I have explained in the other thread.
 
Saffer_XIII said:
Lol. I love how non sub-continental players are usually less talented and just hard workers.
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It's a consistent theme in PP. There is another thread going about Sanga and Amla. Take a look at how much underrated Amla, AB etc are even for period starting from 2010. Performance is not important to rate players in PP. It's talent and only SC players have copyright on talent.
 
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The_Odd_One said:
I have seen plenty of tests in which Akram could not take any top order wickets and he took a lot of lower order wickets. That is why I rate McGrath, Ambrose, and Steyn as better tests bowlers.
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It happens with bowlers time to time so I won't hold it against Wasim. Having said that tail has become better now when compared to 90s. Tails were walking wickets back then.
 
Buffet said:
It's a consistent theme in PP. There is another thread going about Sanga and Amla. Take a look at how much underrated Amla, AB etc are even for period starting from 2010. Performance is not important to rate players in PP. It's talent and only SC players have copyright on talent.
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It's been a case with posters underrating SA players here on PP.

Amla in tests or even Steyn who gets compared to Jimmy Anderson when there is a gulf of difference between the two in tests and not that Jimmy is better than Steyn in other formats.

AB avgs 60+ in World Cups and is considered a failure in WC's lol as per high standards set for him.
 
lol I think this was more one sided. From Jimmy to Wasim is a big jump. Steyn vs Waqar could have even been better, although I think Waqar still tops him.
 
In Tests, Steyn and Wasim are comparable. In ODI's, Steyn isn't anywhere near Wasim mainly because of his inability to deliver when his team actually needs him. He routinely gets slaughtered in all big ODI games. Steyn wouldn't be near most people's ODI's greatest XI, while Wasim will usually be the first bowler named on such lists.

Wasim!
 
I think the thread would've been more interesting if it had just been Tests. And I think there probably has been such a thread in the past :P
 
Ab Fan said:
It's been a case with posters underrating SA players here on PP.

Amla in tests or even Steyn who gets compared to Jimmy Anderson when there is a gulf of difference between the two in tests and not that Jimmy is better than Steyn in other formats.

AB avgs 60+ in World Cups and is considered a failure in WC's lol as per high standards set for him.
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Name one inning that AB played against a non-minnow team in WC that brought SA any success in world cups and please do not mention WI.

AB is rightly criticized for lack of world cup performances. Not his fault though that rain ruined his chance in the semi-final of 2015 WC.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Name one inning that AB played against a non-minnow team in WC that brought SA any success in world cups and please do not mention WI.

AB is rightly criticized for lack of world cup performances. Not his fault though that rain ruined his chance in the semi-final of 2015 WC.
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One player alone can't win you games. It's a team effort that wins you game.

AB has performed in World Cups as well as he could but the reason they haven't win is because as a unit they have failed to seize big moments and hence lost in crucial juncture.One player doesn't win you unless the whole team stood up as unit( the best example was semis vs NZ).

If you talk about a win , then even a 53(39) vs India in 11 WC gave his team the momentum required and they won the game but clearly that was a case when his team performed as unit( Kallis, Amla, Steyn, Peterson all did well ) and seized the big moment and chased down the target.

AB has many superior knocks to that ( 53 vs Ind was just a good knock at max) but in those games the team effort wasn't there and henceforth the main reason for SA failure in WC.

Blame AB for his leadership and man management but as a player he is too good to be undermined.

Anyways, we already had a lot of discussion on these points in recent times and this thread is not about it. So I have no problems if someone still agree to disagree on it.
 
Steyn is in a different league to Wasim in tests and they are very much comparable in ODIs given that this has been a t20 era. So overall Steyn takes it easily.
 
Ab Fan said:
One player alone can't win you games. It's a team effort that wins you game.

AB has performed in World Cups as well as he could but the reason they haven't win is because as a unit they have failed to seize big moments and hence lost in crucial juncture.One player doesn't win you unless the whole team stood up as unit( the best example was semis vs NZ).

If you talk about a win , then even a 53(39) vs India in 11 WC gave his team the momentum required and they won the game but clearly that was a case when his team performed as unit( Kallis, Amla, Steyn, Peterson all did well ) and seized the big moment and chased down the target.

AB has many superior knocks to that ( 53 vs Ind was just a good knock at max) but in those games the team effort wasn't there and henceforth the main reason for SA failure in WC.

Blame AB for his leadership and man management but as a player he is too good to be undermined.

Anyways, we already had a lot of discussion on these points in recent times and this thread is not about it. So I have no problems if someone still agree to disagree on it.
Click to expand...

So, all you could come up with was 53(39)?

AB's true great WC inning was the semi-final of 2015 WC which was ruined by rain. Other than that, he really does not have much to show on his WC resume.

He is the most talented batsman I have ever watched, no disagreement there but he clearly lacks memorable world cup performances.
 
The_Odd_One said:
So, all you could come up with was 53(39)?

AB's true great WC inning was the semi-final of 2015 WC which was ruined by rain. Other than that, he really does not have much to show on his WC resume.

He is the most talented batsman I have ever watched, no disagreement there but he clearly lacks memorable world cup performances.
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His 92 against Australia in 2007 was terrific too.
 
The_Odd_One said:
So, all you could come up with was 53(39)?

AB's true great WC inning was the semi-final of 2015 WC which was ruined by rain. Other than that, he really does not have much to show on his WC resume.

He is the most talented batsman I have ever watched, no disagreement there but he clearly lacks memorable world cup performances.
Click to expand...

I am not too sure of a match winning inning being necessarily the one that results in win. This is because it's the team effort that wins you game and not one player.I have already said it once.

As for his best knock, the one vs Australia in 07 WC and vs NZ in semis 15 were his best one.Against Aus, When he got run out( something which is a norm in WCs for him) , the score was 160-1 in 20 overs and SA were well in game with a chance considering they chased down 436 an year back. Clearly, it was not what you call easy runs when team is assured to lose.

Against Pak in 15 WC, he did a Misbah but not the one of Mohali but the one of Johannesburg.
 
Ab Fan said:
I am not too sure of a match winning inning being necessarily the one that results in win. This is because it's the team effort that wins you game and not one player.I have already said it once.

As for his best knock, the one vs Australia in 07 WC and vs NZ in semis 15 were his best one.Against Aus, When he got run out( something which is a norm in WCs for him) , the score was 160-1 in 20 overs and SA were well in game with a chance considering they chased down 436 an year back. Clearly, it was not what you call easy runs when team is assured to lose.

Against Pak in 15 WC, he did a Misbah but not the one of Mohali but the one of Johannesburg.
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Against Australia, he did not even take his team close to that total. It cannot be regarded as a memorable world cup knock.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Against Australia, he did not even take his team close to that total. It cannot be regarded as a memorable world cup knock.
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He was an opener and just 22 years old.If others would have performed and SA would have won, you would call it a memorable one.

You know what that is the problem. Now what you want is memorable / iconic knock which he doesn't have and on that basis he is considered a failure or lesser performer in World cup when he has been consistent like rock.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree on it .

Let's stick to Steyn and Wasim.

And that comparison by [MENTION=138135]sivaji[/MENTION].That should be fun.
 
Wasim Akram was better than Dale Steyn by lightyears.

In both formats.

Wasim Akram was so dominant and fierce a fast bowler in the limited overs format that no fast bowler in the history of the game approaches him in terms of talent, variation, performance, ability or record.

In Test matches, Dale Steyn is about 20% inferior, on average.

Wasim bhai had more variety, more control, greater performance, better records, poorer fieldsmen dropping catches one after the other while Dale Steyn or other Saffies had some of the best fielding units in the world helping them boost their averages and other stats in bowling friendly saffer conditions.

On top of that, there are numerous obvious cases some of which you can find videos of even today where Wasim bhai and Team Pakistan was blatantly robbed of Test victories abroad, two prominent cases being the Hobart test where Justin Langer was caught behind and the Antigue Test where Jimmy Adams was caught behind, but the umpires either cheated or made terrible decisions that cost Pakistan the games, and Wasim bhai's stats also suffered accordingly.

In both ODIs and Tests, there are dozens of such examples where let alone umpires, the nonstriker had a hard time figuring out the late swing or deviation or some other mesmerizing variation of his delivery that Wasim bhai would come up with.

Stats wise, Wasim Bhai is at least 20% better than Steyn in Tests. No contest in ODIs as Wasim Bhai is the best ever ODI bowler by quite some margin.

FYI, Wasim Bhai averages 24.28 despite all those dropped catches, denied LBWs, denied caught behinds, conflicts in the dressing room and all that - against Top 8 sides, away from home.

243 wickets, at 24.28, with 16 5Ws, in 58 Matches, 103 innings. Econ rate of 2.59, 11 MoM, 5MoS.

Against the Top 8 sides, away from home, Dale Steyn despite benefitting from the superior Saffer fielding unit and emergence of much poorer batting techniques and temperament around the world due to T20 influence, averages 26.09.

147 wickets, at 26.09 with 9 5Ws, in 33 Matches, 59 Innings. Econ rate of 3.36, 3 MoM, 1MoS


Even in his supposedly favoured format of Test cricket, Dale Steyn still comes up short by a significant margin by all available indicators. In terms of stats. And in terms of ability, talent, imposing presence, ability to toy with the best and most technically correct and/or aesthetically pleasing batsmen.

Wasim Bhai wins it comfortably in all formats, Statistically, in terms of ability, control, match winning performance, variation, records, and you name it.
 
bashar345 said:
Wasim Akram was better than Dale Steyn by lightyears.

In both formats.

Wasim Akram was so dominant and fierce a fast bowler in the limited overs format that no fast bowler in the history of the game approaches him in terms of talent, variation, performance, ability or record.

In Test matches, Dale Steyn is about 20% inferior, on average.

Wasim bhai had more variety, more control, greater performance, better records, poorer fieldsmen dropping catches one after the other while Dale Steyn or other Saffies had some of the best fielding units in the world helping them boost their averages and other stats in bowling friendly saffer conditions.

On top of that, there are numerous obvious cases some of which you can find videos of even today where Wasim bhai and Team Pakistan was blatantly robbed of Test victories abroad, two prominent cases being the Hobart test where Justin Langer was caught behind and the Antigue Test where Jimmy Adams was caught behind, but the umpires either cheated or made terrible decisions that cost Pakistan the games, and Wasim bhai's stats also suffered accordingly.

In both ODIs and Tests, there are dozens of such examples where let alone umpires, the nonstriker had a hard time figuring out the late swing or deviation or some other mesmerizing variation of his delivery that Wasim bhai would come up with.

Stats wise, Wasim Bhai is at least 20% better than Steyn in Tests. No contest in ODIs as Wasim Bhai is the best ever ODI bowler by quite some margin.

FYI, Wasim Bhai averages 24.28 despite all those dropped catches, denied LBWs, denied caught behinds, conflicts in the dressing room and all that - against Top 8 sides, away from home.

243 wickets, at 24.28, with 16 5Ws, in 58 Matches, 103 innings. Econ rate of 2.59, 11 MoM, 5MoS.

Against the Top 8 sides, away from home, Dale Steyn despite benefitting from the superior Saffer fielding unit and emergence of much poorer batting techniques and temperament around the world due to T20 influence, averages 26.09.

147 wickets, at 26.09 with 9 5Ws, in 33 Matches, 59 Innings. Econ rate of 3.36, 3 MoM, 1MoS


Even in his supposedly favoured format of Test cricket, Dale Steyn still comes up short by a significant margin by all available indicators. In terms of stats. And in terms of ability, talent, imposing presence, ability to toy with the best and most technically correct and/or aesthetically pleasing batsmen.

Wasim Bhai wins it comfortably in all formats, Statistically, in terms of ability, control, match winning performance, variation, records, and you name it.
Click to expand...

Wasim was a crazy talent.
 
Wasim for me, don't need any stats or spreadsheet, watched them both live at their respective peaks.
 
Can Babar boss Wasim Around? No. Can He boss Steyn around? Yes. Who's better? Wasim.
 
Steyn has higher Peak in tests

167305.jpg
 
Wasim Akram in his pomp was poetry in motion.

Absolutely lethal with both new and the old ball and I have no doubt that had he been a South African, English or Australian player, especially in this era, he would have broken every single bowling record and be held as an undisputed all time great.

By this I mean that with the right diet and fitness/exercise regime and an overall professional outlook combined with players who can actually catch a ball, Akram would have truly fulfilled his undoubted talent and ability with the ball. I also think he would have achieved more with the bat.
 
bashar345 said:
Wasim Akram was better than Dale Steyn by lightyears.

In both formats.

Wasim Akram was so dominant and fierce a fast bowler in the limited overs format that no fast bowler in the history of the game approaches him in terms of talent, variation, performance, ability or record.

In Test matches, Dale Steyn is about 20% inferior, on average.

Wasim bhai had more variety, more control, greater performance, better records, poorer fieldsmen dropping catches one after the other while Dale Steyn or other Saffies had some of the best fielding units in the world helping them boost their averages and other stats in bowling friendly saffer conditions.

On top of that, there are numerous obvious cases some of which you can find videos of even today where Wasim bhai and Team Pakistan was blatantly robbed of Test victories abroad, two prominent cases being the Hobart test where Justin Langer was caught behind and the Antigue Test where Jimmy Adams was caught behind, but the umpires either cheated or made terrible decisions that cost Pakistan the games, and Wasim bhai's stats also suffered accordingly.

In both ODIs and Tests, there are dozens of such examples where let alone umpires, the nonstriker had a hard time figuring out the late swing or deviation or some other mesmerizing variation of his delivery that Wasim bhai would come up with.

Stats wise, Wasim Bhai is at least 20% better than Steyn in Tests. No contest in ODIs as Wasim Bhai is the best ever ODI bowler by quite some margin.

FYI, Wasim Bhai averages 24.28 despite all those dropped catches, denied LBWs, denied caught behinds, conflicts in the dressing room and all that - against Top 8 sides, away from home.

243 wickets, at 24.28, with 16 5Ws, in 58 Matches, 103 innings. Econ rate of 2.59, 11 MoM, 5MoS.

Against the Top 8 sides, away from home, Dale Steyn despite benefitting from the superior Saffer fielding unit and emergence of much poorer batting techniques and temperament around the world due to T20 influence, averages 26.09.

147 wickets, at 26.09 with 9 5Ws, in 33 Matches, 59 Innings. Econ rate of 3.36, 3 MoM, 1MoS


Even in his supposedly favoured format of Test cricket, Dale Steyn still comes up short by a significant margin by all available indicators. In terms of stats. And in terms of ability, talent, imposing presence, ability to toy with the best and most technically correct and/or aesthetically pleasing batsmen.

Wasim Bhai wins it comfortably in all formats, Statistically, in terms of ability, control, match winning performance, variation, records, and you name it.
Click to expand...

To add: don't forget Steyn had opportunity to bowl at batsmen like Mohammad 'Gavaskar' Hafeez :yk

:)))
 
IMMY69 said:
Wasim Akram in his pomp was poetry in motion.

Absolutely lethal with both new and the old ball and I have no doubt that had he been a South African, English or Australian player, especially in this era, he would have broken every single bowling record and be held as an undisputed all time great.

By this I mean that with the right diet and fitness/exercise regime and an overall professional outlook combined with players who can actually catch a ball, Akram would have truly fulfilled his undoubted talent and ability with the ball. I also think he would have achieved more with the bat.
Click to expand...

Wasim akram IS undisputed all time great.
 
Considering the strike rates Waqar vs Steyn would have been a better comparison.

Wasim was a bowling all rounder so irrespective of who is better in the tests Wasim can easily walk into any of the dream XI lists.

Purely as a bowler I think Wasim had command over both the new and the old ball while Steyn is not the best operator reverse swing I have seen also not much of ability to ball toe crushing yorkers.

If SR is effecting people judgement than Waqar is far ahead.
 
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Steyn at his peak is yet to master a yorker or even reverse swing. Without these things bowler is incomplete.

Both are legends but Wasim was a complete bowler. Not to forget Steyn played most of his career on bowler friendly wickets of SA.
 
Titan24 said:
Steyn at his peak is yet to master a yorker or even reverse swing. Without these things bowler is incomplete.

Both are legends but Wasim was a complete bowler. Not to forget Steyn played most of his career on bowler friendly wickets of SA.
Click to expand...

Steyn has gotten reverse swing consistently with all the cameras around. In bottle cap era, he would have been unplayable with his reverse.
 
Michael Clarke, the Australia captain, paid tribute to a great spell of fast reverse swing bowling by South Africa’s Dale Steyn after his side were bundled to defeat on the fourth day of the second Test at St George’s Park on Sunday

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/steyn-spell-swung-match-south-africa-s-way-says-clarke-1.260993

---------------

The masterclass in Nagpur had everything, conventional swing with the new ball that got him the wickets of Murali Vijay and Sachin Tendulkar and a blistering reverse-swing whirlwind after tea that saw India lose their last six wickets for 12.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvrsa2010/content/story/447466.html

------------------
 
Wasim Akram the greatest left arm fast bowler the game has ever seen.
 
Akram in his prime would have Kohli every day of the week and twice on sundays. That's how great he was, especially the swing at 140s was just lethal
 
Steyn - Tests
AKram - ODIs

You have to factor in ball tampering did not receive much of scrutiny back then. After waqar was fined for tampering. Look at Starc. He is completely impotent now.
 
xricket said:
Akram in his prime would have Kohli every day of the week and twice on sundays. That's how great he was, especially the swing at 140s was just lethal
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In that case he should have been averaging below 10 shouldn't he? Be objective bro, don't go overboard. Don't throw one liners which you can't back up. If your sole intention is to trigger a response then you are doing a good job I suppose and by all means please carry on.
 
Hyperion66 said:
In that case he should have been averaging below 10 shouldn't he? Be objective bro, don't go overboard. Don't throw one liners which you can't back up. If your sole intention is to trigger a response then you are doing a good job I suppose and by all means please carry on.
Click to expand...

Kohli can't play in swing. And Akram was great at it. Amir took Kohli out on in swing and an lbw shouts which didnt go in favor in t20 and so did Junaid Khan. It wasn't something irrational, as you made it look like. Akram was the greatest bowler, and Kohli is known as modern great, so Akram with tools enough to make modern day batsman suffer, is enough to show you that he is greatest!
 
xricket said:
Kohli can't play in swing. And Akram was great at it. Amir took Kohli out on in swing and an lbw shouts which didnt go in favor in t20 and so did Junaid Khan. It wasn't something irrational, as you made it look like. Akram was the greatest bowler, and Kohli is known as modern great, so Akram with tools enough to make modern day batsman suffer, is enough to show you that he is greatest!
Click to expand...

Stopped reading after the first sentence, you win. Don't have enough tools to counter such dashing insights.
 
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In Test definitely steyn. Pakistan secret of bottle caps would be found out in the present era.

In ODI it's definitely Wasim no comparison. But a peak steyn was absolute poetry.
 
Buffet said:
Steyn has gotten reverse swing consistently with all the cameras around. In bottle cap era, he would have been unplayable with his reverse.
Click to expand...

There was no such thing as a 'bottle cap era', unless you are talking about one specific county match, which would be ludicrous to extrapolate from.

In recent years, SA have been caught twice iirc.
 
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Overall, it's Wasim and it's not even close. In Tests, my view is changing over time, though I still think it's Steyn but he has had significant advantages over Wasim that if Wasim had, perhaps the comparison between the two would not have even been warranted.
 
Haroon786 said:
There was no such thing as a 'bottle cap era', unless you are talking about one specific county match, which would be ludicrous to extrapolate from.

In recent years, SA have been caught twice iirc.
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That was just to refer to era when you can do whatever you wanted with the ball.

If you allow the same freedom to Steyn, he will run riots with the old ball. We have seen enough evidence of that. Steyn can't reverse that ball is simply not true.
 
Here is the description of era I was talking,

----------------


When New Zealand ball tampered, got away with it and nearly won a test in Pakistan

Take one bottle top. Cut into quarters. Apply tape, leaving sharp point exposed. Hide in pocket. Gouge cricket ball when required.

It seems brazen, incongruous and bound to draw attention from match officials, but New Zealand's cricketers admitted doing all of the above in full view during a test in Pakistan in 1990.

In those days of no match referees they were never sanctioned for ball tampering, despite Chris Pringle generating spectacular reverse swing in an 11-wicket haul which nearly spurred New Zealand to victory in the third test of that series in Faisalabad.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/crick...way-with-it-and-nearly-won-a-test-in-pakistan

----------------------------

Do you think Steyn won't run riots with old ball if allowed the same freedom?
 
Buffet said:
That was just to refer to era when you can do whatever you wanted with the ball.

If you allow the same freedom to Steyn, he will run riots with the old ball. We have seen enough evidence of that. Steyn can't reverse that ball is simply not true.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but I don't believe that it was common practice to use external objects like bottle caps in Tests during that era.
 
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