What exactly hinders Pakistan and India from becoming a Franco-German type neighbors?

[The Bald Eagle]

For anyone aware with history should know how much hate existed or may still does exist deep inside among Germans and French people but still they were able to overcome their differences for a better future of their citizens but what exactly keeps Pakistan and India from becoming a good neighborly nations.

Is it the rule of right wing parties or the non resolution of territorial disputes or something else that keeps these nations from being on friendlier terms with each other?

 

[RexRex]

Is it the rule of right wing parties or the non resolution of territorial disputes or something else that keeps these nations from being on friendlier terms with each other?

What do you think it is ? It is pretty obvious to most people who have studied the issue.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Poll added Guys

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What do you think it is ? It is pretty obvious to most people who have studied the issue.

I am of the opinion it is because of the non resolution of territorial disputes and the inherent vested interests of some pressure groups particular right wing politicans who milk this element of hatred for political glory and mileage.

Also because of China as India incessantly fears the Pakistan China cooperation as detrimental to it's existence.

 

[RexRex]

I am of the opinion it is because of the non resolution of territorial disputes and the inherent vested interests of some pressure groups particular right wing politicans who milk this element of hatred for political glory and mileage.

Also because of China as India incessantly fears the Pakistan China cooperation as detrimental to it's existence.

which pressure groups and politicians are you referring to ?

 

[Devadwal]

Cross border terrorism and pakistan is controlled by Establishment so india will never trust them knowing how they were betrayal with india ( As all four wars started by Pakistan army)

As saying " Muh mein ram ram bagal mein churi"

Untill pakistan civilian government will take control of power and think seriously about normalisation the relation with india , india will not trust pakistan forever .

 

[The Bald Eagle]

which pressure groups and politicians are you referring to ?

BJP, RSS type parties, and some insane military leaders from both sides.

 

[RexRex]

BJP, RSS type parties, and some insane military leaders from both sides.

Indo-Pak hostility predates the BJP/RSS's rise to power in indian politics, so you can throw that theory out the window.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Cross border terrorism and pakistan is controlled by Establishment so india will never trust them knowing how they were betrayal with india ( As all four wars started by Pakistan army)

As saying " Muh mein ram ram bagal mein churi"

Untill pakistan civilian government will take control of power and think seriously about normalisation the relation with india , india will not trust pakistan forever .

This is basically the doctrine of Hindutva as regards Pakistan. They don't want a successful Islamic neighbour so their policy is to maintain hostile relations permanently, with the eventual goal of eliminating Islam from the subcontinent altogether.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I should add, I don't excuse Pakistan's military from their role either, when you have military rule, all it takes for a foreign nation to cause havoc is to buy a couple of the top generals.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Indo-Pak hostility predates the BJP/RSS's rise to power in indian politics, so you can throw that theory out the window.

Why the military leaders from both sides doesn't want a headache like Siachen resolved? Please ponder over it you will get the answer.

PS: Siachen is not that strategically important as Kashmir

 

[Devadwal]

This is basically the doctrine of Hindutva as regards Pakistan. They don't want a successful Islamic neighbour so their policy is to maintain hostile relations permanently, with the eventual goal of eliminating Islam from the subcontinent altogether.

Keep living in Denial mode but truth will remain the truth.

This is the reason why Pakistan is brink of bankruptcy while india is flourishing .

"You reap what you sow" period

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Keep living in Denial mode but truth will remain the truth.

This is the reason why Pakistan is brink of bankruptcy while india is flourishing .

"You reap what you sow" period

How is financial health of a nation relevant to good or bad relations between two neighbouring countries?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Don't want Franco German relations.

At one point I did, but the will isn't there on the other side.

Now, I prefer Pakistan works alongside regional partners like China and Bangladesh to surround India on every border so that their only option is to jump into the sea ( metaphorically)

 

[RexRex]

Why the military leaders from both sides doesn't want a headache like Siachen resolved? Please ponder over it you will get the answer.

PS: Siachen is not that strategically important as Kashmir

I've no idea what you're on about. Who is Siachen a headache to ? India is satisfied with the status quo and doesn't make any fuss about it. Explain.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I've no idea what you're on about. Who is Siachen a headache to ? India is satisfied with the status quo and doesn't make any fuss about it. Explain.

Have a read
====
The Siachen Glacier poses severe challenges for Indian soldiers, with harsh conditions leading to significant casualties. Since 1984, over 869 soldiers have died from avalanches and altitude sickness, far exceeding combat-related deaths12. The extreme cold, low oxygen levels, and isolation contribute to serious health issues, including Acute Mountain Sickness, which affects 20-30% of soldiers shortly after arrival34. Additionally, the financial burden of maintaining troops in this inhospitable environment is immense, costing India about $1 million daily2. Despite advancements in equipment and support, the glacier remains a perilous posting for military personnel.
===
The point is like some establishment elements in Pakistan, Indian military doesn't want the territorial disputes to be resolved as this would slash their hefty budget and make them irrelevant in the bigger schemes of things also why whenever Pakistan India come tantalizingly close to some breakthrough on Kashmir a suspicious event like 26/7 or Pathankot occurs?

 

[Itachi]

Muslim invaders and rulers are the main reason.

If one goes by history, there was always matrimonial alliance between various European countries. Thus there was exchange of culture and demography more often than not.

We can see the same in Indian SC till 7th century. Once Muslim rulers came, they maintained a separation. We don't see any matrimonial alliance and there was always two separate identities. The culture over the centuries became too different. Even among the Muslim rulers, the Delhi sultanate had totally different ideology than Turkish ones from the north west.

You can't amend centuries of separation of every aspect of two different societies that easily.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Muslim invaders and rulers are the main reason.

If one goes by history, there was always matrimonial alliance between various European countries. Thus there was exchange of culture and demography more often than not.

We can see the same in Indian SC till 7th century. Once Muslim rulers came, they maintained a separation. We don't see any matrimonial alliance and there was always two separate identities. The culture over the centuries became too different. Even among the Muslim rulers, the Delhi sultanate had totally different ideology than Turkish ones from the north west.

You can't amend centuries of separation of every aspect of two different societies that easily.

That's why I mentioned Franco-Germans have a look at their history too
.. Napoleon eras, Bismarck wound rubbing etc

And who were Akbar's and Jahanghir's wife

 

[Bhaijaan]

Imali ka boota, beri ka ped
Imali khatti meethe ber
Iss jangal mein hum do sher
Chal ghar jaldi ho gayi der
Chal ghar jaldi ho gayi der

Jis din se tu rooth gaya
Jis din se tu rooth gaya
Teri kasam dil toot gaya
Na jaane kab raat huyi
Na jaane kab saver

I must say that the relationship between Bharat and Pakistan, the two brave sons of Ancient Mahabharat, often mirrors the poignant story of Veer Singh and Thakur Rajeshwar Singh from the iconic Hindi film Saudagar. Once bound by brotherhood, trust, and shared dreams, the partition of Bharat in 1947 tore them apart—just as a misunderstanding divided the two friends in the film. The warmth of unity was replaced by a deep-seated bitterness, born from wounds inflicted on both sides.


Imagine two brothers who once built castles in the air together, laughing and crying over the same dreams, only to find themselves on opposing sides of a border. Their shared childhood becomes a distant memory, overshadowed by conflict. Misunderstandings grow like weeds, nurtured by fear, politics, and the echo of old grievances. With every passing decade, the memories of their golden days slip further away, replaced by barbed wires and mistrust.


But like Veeru and Rajeshwar, their hearts are not devoid of longing. Beneath the frosty surface lies an aching desire to reconcile. It is in the shared culture, music, and food, where echoes of the old bond resurface. The ghazals of Ghulam Ali, the poetry of Faiz, and the shared aroma of biryani are reminders of a time when they were one.

The tragedy, though, lies in how pride and politics hold them captive. Just as the two friends in Saudagar required the innocence and determination of younger generations to break the cycle of hatred, Bharat and Pakistan too need the courage to bridge their divide.

At the heart of this tale is an unshed tear, a hand stretched across an invisible border, waiting to be held. Like in the film, the question lingers: how long before the bonds of humanity overpower the shadows of history? For just as Veeru and Rajeshwar rediscover their love through a shared tragedy, perhaps Bharat and Pakistan, too, might one day find their peace in the shared yearning for a future free of enmity—a future where they stand together, not as enemies, but as family once again.

For no wounds are greater than the deepest wounds of the human heart.
- Love & Peace

 

[RexRex]

The point is like some establishment elements in Pakistan, Indian military doesn't want the territorial disputes to be resolved as this would slash their hefty budget and make them irrelevant in the bigger schemes of things also why whenever Pakistan India come tantalizingly close to some breakthrough on Kashmir a suspicious event like 26/7 or Pathankot occurs?

We know for a fact that the Pakistan military doesn't want them territorial disputes resolved, you are correct.

But you have zero evidence for that same accusation when levied on the Indian military. None whatsoever. The military isn't in charge of the budget/schemes in India, it's the PM.

You are dishonestly trying to project Pakistan's army domestic interference problems onto India's army.

 

[Itachi]

That's why I mentioned Franco-Germans have a look at their history too
.. Napoleon eras, Bismarck wound rubbing etc

And who were Akbar's and Jahanghir's wife

Those were not alliance (akbar and jahangir)

Those were suzerainty. That's a big difference which you won't find in most European cases.

Secondly, India and Pakistan never came under one ruler for centuries after centuries. That's not the same case for Europe.

 

[uppercut]

Simple answer : Religion.

India has no territorial disputes with BD and infact was the main reason for its independence. Now look at the pitiable condition of Hindus there and the general hostility towards India. Similar story with Maldives

Whereas India and Nepal have territorial disputes but they are not hostile nations. Similar story with SL

So India could go ahead and give up Kashmir but that will not end the hostilities from Pakistan.

 

[Hellion]

When

1. The military establishment of
Pakistan is completely destroyed

AND

2. Religiosity levels decline to extremely low levels ,

then and only then can India and Pakistan pursue better relations

 

[JaDed]

India and Pakistan are so much better than Germany and France considering the history, if so many wars India and Pakistan fight for centuries surely we will become peaceful as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Simple answer : Religion.

India has no territorial disputes with BD and infact was the main reason for its independence. Now look at the pitiable condition of Hindus there and the general hostility towards India. Similar story with Maldives

Whereas India and Nepal have territorial disputes but they are not hostile nations. Similar story with SL

So India could go ahead and give up Kashmir but that will not end the hostilities from Pakistan.

You are right, religion is the reason, but the everlasting hatred comes from the hindutva movement. Not all Hindus by any means, but the ones who form the bulk of your ruling party for sure.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

We know for a fact that the Pakistan military doesn't want them territorial disputes resolved, you are correct.

But you have zero evidence for that same accusation when levied on the Indian military. None whatsoever. The military isn't in charge of the budget/schemes in India, it's the PM.

You are dishonestly trying to project Pakistan's army domestic interference problems onto India's army.

A bit busy today but will provide you the proofs. As in this case it may be would the opinion of different analysts because also in case of Pakistan deep state, there is no tangible evidence but all talks from different analysts

And on innocence of your army every nation from Canada to North Korea. And from China to Maldives can vouch on that

 

[uppercut]

You are right, religion is the reason, but the everlasting hatred comes from the hindutva movement. Not all Hindus by any means, but the ones who form the bulk of your ruling party for sure.​

Does it occur to you that almost all wars were initiated by Pakistan and most importantly they occurred when India was ruled by left wing rabidly anti-Hindutva political parties for nearly 6 decades out of the 7 since independence. Yes I know your penchant to classify anyone with a Hindu name as a Hindutva but if by any chance facts are allowed in this discussion you will find out that the peak of hostilities from Pakistan occurred during these time frames.​

Furthermore .... you will also find that both BJP Prime Ministers that ruled india Vajpayee and Modi did try to resolve issues by visiting Pakistan but the immediate response from Pakistan was Kargil in 1999 and terror attacks in 2016.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan is an extremely religious Islamic nation. They will never be friends with non-Muslims especially isolators like Hindus.

All the lovey dovey friendship stuff that some express is superficial. At the core, they are too different to ever be permanent friends.

Even BD were friendly with India for as long as Hasina Madam was able to keep Islamists under tight control. Once she was kicked out, we can see the constant vitriol and animosity from BD on a daily basis.

Until and unless Pakistan gives up its Islamic stance, there will never be peace with India. We just have to accept the fact.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan is an extremely religious Islamic nation. They will never be friends with non-Muslims especially isolators like Hindus.

All the lovey dovey friendship stuff that some express is superficial. At the core, they are too different to ever be permanent friends.

Even BD were friendly with India for as long as Hasina Madam was able to keep Islamists under tight control. Once she was kicked out, we can see the constant vitriol and animosity from BD on a daily basis.

Until and unless Pakistan gives up its Islamic stance, there will never be peace with India. We just have to accept the fact.

Pakistan has friendly relationship with China despite it's Islamic stance as you put it. A nation of godless commies and idol worshippers so I don't think what you are saying holds true.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan is an extremely religious Islamic nation. They will never be friends with non-Muslims especially isolators like Hindus.

All the lovey dovey friendship stuff that some express is superficial. At the core, they are too different to ever be permanent friends.

Even BD were friendly with India for as long as Hasina Madam was able to keep Islamists under tight control. Once she was kicked out, we can see the constant vitriol and animosity from BD on a daily basis.

Until and unless Pakistan gives up its Islamic stance, there will never be peace with India. We just have to accept the fact.

Pakistan being a somewhat religous country does not mean that they need to be enemies with non-Muslim countries. They have good relations with China and Sri Lanka just to give a couple of examples. Muslim countries in the Gulf have decent relations with India as well, accepting many of their workforce as immigrants.

The hatred mostly comes one way from India, and that is directed by the hindutva movement which has gained more and more influence in the country. Even Indian posters on forums like this will defend the hostility which tells you everything about where it is coming from. Pakistan doesn't gain anything from hostile relations, India in general likes to maintain and nurture a war footing on as many spheres as possible.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

India is the only nation in the subcontinent with intra caste and intra religious skirmishes in its own borders and it has disputes in some form of another with every country on its borders too.

Inside and outside it is a story of agitation by Indians.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Religion. Of course.

TNT makes it clear. Can't dine together. Can't intermarry.

Europeans wine, dine and intermarry. Therein lies the enigma.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Why the military leaders from both sides doesn't want a headache like Siachen resolved? Please ponder over it you will get the answer.

PS: Siachen is not that strategically important as Kashmir

If thats the case, Pak army can leave. India army will be wasting its money on a useless piece of Ice.

Is pak army that dumb not to realize this?

 

[HalBass9]

Hindutva claims that Pakistani Muslims hate Indian Hindus, but it is often Hindutva-aligned BJP politicians and their supporters, sometimes posing as atheists, who justify atrocities like the massacre of over 200,000 Indian Muslims, using the pretext of hurt religious sentiments.

In 2024 and beyond, the greatest barrier to peaceful relations between India and Pakistan will be the rise of Hindutva, which disguises itself as Hinduism. With its growing economic power, India seems to believe this entitles it to assert regional dominance and revive a sense of religious supremacy, allegedly lost centuries ago when people converted to other faiths. To maintain this narrative, Hindutva continually needs a scapegoat, and Muslims along with Pakistan, a nation founded on religious identity serve as the perfect targets.

As long as Hindutva ideology remains influential in India, genuine reconciliation between the two nations will be impossible. Moreover, a truly democratic Pakistan could undermine the Hindutva narrative, which relies on portraying Pakistan’s military rule as a failure of Islamic governance. Hindutva proponents in India, therefore, prefer Pakistan’s military regime, as it bolsters their bigoted rhetoric and appeals to those already indoctrinated within India.

 

[uppercut]

Hindutva claims that Pakistani Muslims hate Indian Hindus, but it is often Hindutva-aligned BJP politicians and their supporters, sometimes posing as atheists, who justify atrocities like the massacre of over 200,000 Indian Muslims Animals , using the pretext of hurt religious sentiments.

Not pretext. It is a actual fact going back centuries. And dont forget to use the correct terms. Keyword is Animals !

In 2024 and beyond, the greatest barrier to peaceful relations between India and Pakistan will be the rise of Hindutva, which disguises itself as Hinduism. With its growing economic power, India seems to believe this entitles it to assert regional dominance and revive a sense of religious supremacy, allegedly lost centuries ago when people converted to other faiths. To maintain this narrative, Hindutva continually needs a scapegoat, and Muslims along with Pakistan, a nation founded on religious identity serve as the perfect targets.

As long as Hindutva ideology remains influential in India, genuine reconciliation between the two nations will be impossible. Moreover, a truly democratic Pakistan could undermine the Hindutva narrative, which relies on portraying Pakistan’s military rule as a failure of Islamic governance. Hindutva proponents in India, therefore, prefer Pakistan’s military regime, as it bolsters their bigoted rhetoric and appeals to those already indoctrinated within India.

here is a fun fact ... India was ruled by rabidly anti-Hindutva political parties for a small matter of 60 out of 77 yrs how did that work out ?

Here is the high level major events that transpired during that time:

1. Three Wars ( 48,65,71 ... all started by Pakistan )
2. Mass murder of Kashmiri Pandits and complete exodus.
3. 26/11

 

[HalBass9]

Not pretext. It is a actual fact going back centuries. And dont forget to use the correct terms. Keyword is Animals !




here is a fun fact ... India was ruled by rabidly anti-Hindutva political parties for a small matter of 60 out of 77 yrs how did that work out ?

Here is the high level major events that transpired during that time:

1. Three Wars ( 48,65,71 ... all started by Pakistan )
2. Mass murder of Kashmiri Pandits and complete exodus.
3. 26/11

You should not be around amongst “animal”, it looks detrimental to your mental health. You've already endorsed the massacre of your fellow countrymen. Maybe take a break?

I get it, it wont be easy for you as India has over 200 million “animals” and it won't be easy in the rest of the world as there are over 1.5 billion “animal”, maybe try a secluded hole?

 

[uppercut]

You should not be around amongst “animal”, it looks detrimental to your mental health. You've already endorsed the massacre of your fellow countrymen. Maybe take a break?


I get it, it wont be easy for you as India has over 200 million “animals” and it won't be easy in the rest of the world as there are over 1.5 billion “animal”, maybe try a secluded hole?

All for the greater good of humanity. Small price to pay.

And what happened you conveniently ignored the rest of my post that dismantles your narrative about Hindutva? Inconvenient facts perhaps ?

 

[HalBass9]

All for the greater good of humanity. Small price to pay.

And what happened you conveniently ignored the rest of my post that dismantles your narrative about Hindutva? Inconvenient facts perhaps ?

Good luck!

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan has friendly relationship with China despite it's Islamic stance as you put it. A nation of godless commies and idol worshippers so I don't think what you are saying holds true.

Superficial friendship. Atheism and Islam does not go well together. They are in it for mutual benefit . No real bonding over common values or ideas.

 

[shortbread]

There's a myriad of differences between the two nations, but the question is why can't we find peace like many other bordering countries.

The root cause of continued animosity between the two nations lies with one actor who have strategically initiated hostilities during critical moments in our relations, especially during times of peace and war. While both nations have made sincere attempts at peace, these efforts have often been derailed by significant acts of violence, with a common understanding of the force behind these disruptions. In times of war, the same entity has instigated two major conflicts, gaining legitimacy and power through both internal and external strife.

The establishment, this situation has created an empire that thrives on Pakistan's political instability and border tensions.

Today, as both countries have invested deeply in their mutual animosity, the prospect of reconciliation appears increasingly unattainable.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Characters like BJP(who need Pakistan-hatred for poll victories) and Godi media

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There's a myriad of differences between the two nations, but the question is why can't we find peace like many other bordering countries.

The root cause of continued animosity between the two nations lies with one actor who have strategically initiated hostilities during critical moments in our relations, especially during times of peace and war. While both nations have made sincere attempts at peace, these efforts have often been derailed by significant acts of violence, with a common understanding of the force behind these disruptions. In times of war, the same entity has instigated two major conflicts, gaining legitimacy and power through both internal and external strife.

The establishment, this situation has created an empire that thrives on Pakistan's political instability and border tensions.

Today, as both countries have invested deeply in their mutual animosity, the prospect of reconciliation appears increasingly unattainable.

That establishment would thrive more in a successful economy not reliant on loans which keep the country on a downward spiral. It is a lazy assumption which everyone just accepts as fact these days.

 

[uppercut]

Characters like BJP(who need Pakistan-hatred for poll victories) and Godi media

All major wars tarted by Pakistan were during Congress rule and also the Kashmiri pandit genocide , 26/11

 

[The Bald Eagle]

All major wars tarted by Pakistan were during Congress rule and also the Kashmiri pandit genocide , 26/11

Pathankot, so called Surgical strikes 1 and 2.0, Uri drama etc....FATF card against Pakistan...

 

[shortbread]

That establishment would thrive more in a successful economy not reliant on loans which keep the country on a downward spiral. It is a lazy assumption which everyone just accepts as fact these days.

No it wont. The state of the economy has little to do with the India problem and neither will peace help fix it either.

The establishment's power capture, policy mistakes, political manoeuvring are the primary issue that have created this economic chaos. The loans, interest payments, liabilities are a Pakistan problem, not an establishment one. The establishment thrives irrespective of the nation's strife. I would argue peace is counter productive because it would raise the rather logical question as to why it eats up a majority of the nation's measly revenues. The establishment thrives in chaos, both internal and external, it helps strengthen it's vice like grip on Pakistan's throat. It stands to gain nothing in finding peace.

 

[HalBass9]

No it wont. The state of the economy has little to do with the India problem and neither will peace help fix it either.

The establishment's power capture, policy mistakes, political manoeuvring are the primary issue that have created this economic chaos. The loans, interest payments, liabilities are a Pakistan problem, not an establishment one. The establishment thrives irrespective of the nation's strife. I would argue peace is counter productive because it would raise the rather logical question as to why it eats up a majority of the nation's measly revenues. The establishment thrives in chaos, both internal and external, it helps strengthen it's vice like grip on Pakistan's throat. It stands to gain nothing in finding peace.

Wrong. Lazy analysis and repetition of talking points. Its 2024 not 80’s.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No it wont. The state of the economy has little to do with the India problem and neither will peace help fix it either.

The establishment's power capture, policy mistakes, political manoeuvring are the primary issue that have created this economic chaos. The loans, interest payments, liabilities are a Pakistan problem, not an establishment one. The establishment thrives irrespective of the nation's strife. I would argue peace is counter productive because it would raise the rather logical question as to why it eats up a majority of the nation's measly revenues. The establishment thrives in chaos, both internal and external, it helps strengthen it's vice like grip on Pakistan's throat. It stands to gain nothing in finding peace.

Even if you are part of the establishment, most of them would benefit from living in first world conditions rather than a mansion in a third world dump. But who knows? It's the same living in India I suppose and they have a booming economy. Maybe these things don't matter when you are used to it.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Pakistan, the peace loving nation
====

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869017748678098958

 

[shortbread]

Even if you are part of the establishment, most of them would benefit from living in first world conditions rather than a mansion in a third world dump. But who knows? It's the same living in India I suppose and they have a booming economy. Maybe these things don't matter when you are used to it.

First world generals would envy the wealth and riches the establishment elite enjoy.

 

[sweep_shot]

France and Germany are advanced first world nations. On the other hand, Indian subcontinent is complete opposite (corruption, malnutrition, poverty etc.).

It is why Pakistan and India can't be on good terms. Then again, almost all third world nations are like that. They generally don't look at bigger pictures.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

First world generals would envy the wealth and riches the establishment elite enjoy.

How would they enjoy it? Once you are outside your gated compound you are still driving on the same roads with horses and donkeys at 15mph.

 

[RexRex]

As in this case it may be would the opinion of different analysts because also in case of Pakistan deep state, there is no tangible evidence but all talks from different analysts

No evidence of a Pakistani deep state ?! You do know that your country had 3 military coups right ?

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan, the peace loving nation
====

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869017748678098958

Yup seeing that when they deal with PTI, the peace.

 

[JaDed]

There was report on what Pakistan and India googled most about each other,
very surprising results:

Pakistan googled way more about Indian stuff than Indians did about Pakistan.. yet we keep hearing how Indians are obsessed.. maybe time for me to put up threads like new admins are doing about India.

 

[RexRex]

As in this case it may be would the opinion of different analysts because also in case of Pakistan deep state, there is no tangible evidence but all talks from different analysts

I can't take any of your posts seriously anymore after you said there is no evidence of a Pakistani deep state.

 

[JaDed]

How would they enjoy it? Once you are outside your gated compound you are still driving on the same roads with horses and donkeys at 15mph.

They can enjoy it in Belgium

 

[uppercut]

Pathankot, so called Surgical strikes 1 and 2.0, Uri drama etc....FATF card against Pakistan...

You were blaming BJP for the state of relationship between India and Pakistan. My point is why did Pakistan have even worse relationship with India when there was no BJP at all ? Infact these events that you mention completely pale in comparison to the 3 fullscale wars during the Congress rule. So as always reality is the exact opposite of what Pakistanis want to believe in.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You were blaming BJP for the state of relationship between India and Pakistan. My point is why did Pakistan have even worse relationship with India when there was no BJP at all ? Infact these events that you mention completely pale in comparison to the 3 fullscale wars during the Congress rule. So as always reality is the exact opposite of what Pakistanis want to believe in.

Because the 1965 war hurt Indian pride really hard and 1962 war with China wasn't Pakistan fault but India needed some enemy to defeat and look strong again

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There was report on what Pakistan and India googled most about each other,
very surprising results:

Pakistan googled way more about Indian stuff than Indians did about Pakistan.. yet we keep hearing how Indians are obsessed.. maybe time for me to put up threads like new admins are doing about India.

I think this perception might be because every Pakistani site I have ever been on has been filled with Indians, and they are usually very patriotic, which has the effect of uniting Pakistanis to defend their own country even though in private they are usually hyper critical.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Jinnah, founder of secular pakistan -- not be confused with present day IRP -- said in a speech in Lahore leading up to partition that [paraphrasing] Hindus and Muslims belong to two different philosophies, social customs and literary traditions, neither intermarrying nor eating together, belonging to two different civilizations whose ideas and conceptions are incompatible.

This pretty much shuts any european-style bhai chara in this neck of the woods then.

 

[Itachi]

Looking back, why German and France still have friendly relationship could be....

None of them are Muslim majority nation.

Bring one Muslim majority nation in the mixture and you have some issues one way or the other.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Jinnah, founder of secular pakistan -- not be confused with present day IRP -- said in a speech in Lahore leading up to partition that [paraphrasing] Hindus and Muslims belong to two different philosophies, social customs and literary traditions, neither intermarrying nor eating together, belonging to two different civilizations whose ideas and conceptions are incompatible.

This pretty much shuts any european-style bhai chara in this neck of the woods then.

Loads of inter-marriages took place in India itself until recently though, between Muslims and Hindus, as it was mostly a secular country. With all the love jihad hysteria though, that is probably coming to an end.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Jinnah, founder of secular pakistan -- not be confused with present day IRP -- said in a speech in Lahore leading up to partition that [paraphrasing] Hindus and Muslims belong to two different philosophies, social customs and literary traditions, neither intermarrying nor eating together, belonging to two different civilizations whose ideas and conceptions are incompatible.

This pretty much shuts any european-style bhai chara in this neck of the woods then.

The Franco-German alliance is based more on economic ties than cultural similarities

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Looking back, why German and France still have friendly relationship could be....

None of them are Muslim majority nation.

Bring one Muslim majority nation in the mixture and you have some issues one way or the other.

And then people say show proof of an anti specific community bias

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Looking back, why German and France still have friendly relationship could be....

None of them are Muslim majority nation.

Bring one Muslim majority nation in the mixture and you have some issues one way or the other.

Both France and Germany are culturally similar, both are loosely Christian countries operating under secular laws along capitalist principles. There is not that much for them to argue over beyond trade or border issues.

Muslim countries like UAE and Malaysia seem to manage alright, I think it is when you get overt religious ideology leading the way in third world countries that you get more flashpoints. This is true of both India and Pakistan, both bringing religion into legislature in recent times.

 

[Itachi]

Both France and Germany are culturally similar, both are loosely Christian countries operating under secular laws along capitalist principles. There is not that much for them to argue over beyond trade or border issues.

Muslim countries like UAE and Malaysia seem to manage alright, I think it is when you get overt religious ideology leading the way in third world countries that you get more flashpoints. This is true of both India and Pakistan, both bringing religion into legislature in recent times.

Yes. Agreed here 100%. I think eventually both nation will come to terms with it but it's far ahead in future.

 

[HalBass9]

Both France and Germany are culturally similar, both are loosely Christian countries operating under secular laws along capitalist principles. There is not that much for them to argue over beyond trade or border issues.

Muslim countries like UAE and Malaysia seem to manage alright, I think it is when you get overt religious ideology leading the way in third world countries that you get more flashpoints. This is true of both India and Pakistan, both bringing religion into legislature in recent times.

There is a clear difference. Currently, the overtly religious Hindutva group in India holds complete control over the government.

Eventually, India will be compelled to engage with Pakistan, setting aside its current reasons for avoiding such engagement. This appears to be an inevitable trajectory for the region.

 

[rpant_gabba]

There is a clear difference. Currently, the overtly religious Hindutva group in India holds complete control over the government.

Eventually, India will be compelled to engage with Pakistan, setting aside its current reasons for avoiding such engagement. This appears to be an inevitable trajectory for the region.

By who?

 

[JaDed]

I think this perception might be because every Pakistani site I have ever been on has been filled with Indians, and they are usually very patriotic, which has the effect of uniting Pakistanis to defend their own country even though in private they are usually hyper critical.

What are the other Pakistani sites?

 

[rpant_gabba]

There is a clear difference. Currently, the overtly religious Hindutva group in India holds complete control over the government.

Eventually, India will be compelled to engage with Pakistan, setting aside its current reasons for avoiding such engagement. This appears to be an inevitable trajectory for the region.

What circumstances do you envision that would bring this about?

 

[Farhan The Man]

Loads of inter-marriages took place in India itself until recently though, between Muslims and Hindus...

Yes, you are right.

Apparently Jinnah founded pakiland on flimsy grounds.

Care to substantiate "Loads"? Any empiric suffices to put another nail in Jinnah's coffin.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Muslim countries like UAE and Malaysia seem to manage alright....

malays/emiratis openly allow alcohol, prostitution/brothels, live-in relationships, gambling et al.

These are not muslim by any stretch of your imagination.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What are the other Pakistani sites?

I don't think we are allowed to post about other sites here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, you are right.

Apparently Jinnah founded pakiland on flimsy grounds.

Care to substantiate "Loads"? Any empiric suffices to put another nail in Jinnah's coffin.

A significant number.

malays/emiratis openly allow alcohol, prostitution/brothels, live-in relationships, gambling et al.

These are not muslim by any stretch of your imagination.

They don't openly allow any of those things.

 

[Farhan The Man]

A significant number.

With this verifiable metric Quaid is certainly proven wrong. You win. Founder loses.

BTW, here is UAE law for alcohol consumption. There are MMI-authorized shops in all street corners. Free home delivery included.

There will be no penalties for drinking, possessing, or trading alcoholic beverages under conditions and locations legally authorized by current legislation.​

Is Drinking Alcohol Legal in Dubai? Know About Drinking Laws

davidsoncolaw.com

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I can't take any of your posts seriously anymore after you said there is no evidence of a Pakistani deep state.

You got it wrong what I meant was give any tangible documentary evidence that Pak deep state doesn't wait Kashmir resolved....I'll wait for your evidence

We know for a fact that the Pakistan military doesn't want them territorial disputes resolved, you are correct.

But you have zero evidence for that same accusation when levied on the Indian military. None whatsoever. The military isn't in charge of the budget/schemes in India, it's the PM.

You are dishonestly trying to project Pakistan's army domestic interference problems onto India's army.

And India army like BJP government definitely is in collusion to avoid any resolution of conflict with Pakistan and a little or should say big evidence of it is Pulwama False flag operation and bogus pinning of blame on Pakistan in this case. Check below sources and also you would be well aware of Satya pal raj interview with Karan Thapar on this issue

Pulwama False Flag and Modi’s Nuclear Brinkmanship to Win Elections - SVI - Strategic Vision Institute

The former governor of Indian Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IOJ&K) Satya Pal Malik has recently made headlines for his revelations about the Pulwama attack. While some of the claims by Malik on the Pulwama attack have previously been the talk of the town, in the recent interviews, particularly...

thesvi.org

And if you want a foreign journal to be the evidence of it then see

India Blames Pakistan for Attack in Kashmir, Promising a Response (Published 2019)

Prime Minister Narendra Modi vows “a befitting reply” to the suicide bombing, which killed dozens of Indian soldiers. Pakistan has denied involvement.

www.nytimes.com

 

[KingKhanWC]

Too many Indians have swallowed the rss racist backward propaganda.

Its simple .

India believes Pakistan occupies its land , half of Kashmir.

If Pakistan was to give this up , half of Bollywood would be dancing in gaddafi stadium.

 

[sweep_shot]

Average IQ score of Germany: 100
Average IQ score of France: 97
Average IQ score of India: 77

Source: https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php.

As evident from IQ scores, Indians are not intelligent enough to recognize the importance of keeping good relations with neighboring states. They have conflicts with many different neighboring states --> Pakistan, Bangladesh, China, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Maldives.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Average IQ score of Germany: 100
Average IQ score of France: 97
Average IQ score of India: 77

Source: https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php.

As evident from IQ scores, Indians are not intelligent enough to recognize the importance of keeping good relations with neighboring states. They have conflicts with many different neighboring states --> Pakistan, Bangladesh, China, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Maldives.

Not sure about Srilanka and Maldives. They both are in Indian fold again. Especially Maldives who were so anti-India. They had to wag their tail in front of India
Indians have low IQ. Yet their dominate fields that require the most brain power.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

With this verifiable metric Quaid is certainly proven wrong. You win. Founder loses.

BTW, here is UAE law for alcohol consumption. There are MMI-authorized shops in all street corners. Free home delivery included.

There will be no penalties for drinking, possessing, or trading alcoholic beverages under conditions and locations legally authorized by current legislation.​

Is Drinking Alcohol Legal in Dubai? Know About Drinking Laws

davidsoncolaw.com

The bit you bolded is quite important as it defeats your own statement. "Under conditions and locations authorised by current legislation" actually means no one can drink alcohol openly, only behind closed doors.