What is the reason for Pakistan's dismal record in Tests in Australia?

[MenInG]

So here are the facts

In Tests:

37 matches

Australia have won 26 times
Pakistan have won 4 times
There have been 7 drawn games

What is the reason for this record?

Surely we had the best players playing in these games - likes of Wasim Akram, Imran Khan etc?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I’d wager we’ve lost 1-2 due to fixing. Aside from that, we’ve been horrible because of our batting. Usually no support for the main bat.

 

[Xoib]

We were not bad till the turn of the century.

It was 12-4 not great but understandable since then it has been 14-0 and looks like undertaker streak is danger unless Aus stops inviting us which can happen givin how uncompetitive we usually are on their shores.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistani batsmen are weak against hostile pace and bounce. Most of our batsmen cannot handle short stuff.

In terms of bowling, you need fit, fast bowlers in Australia. Our bowlers have poor fitness levels and they huff and puff after one spell.

Moreover, we get intimidated by the cauldron like atmosphere in Australian stadiums and the sledging that gets under our skin.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Its a story of two eras. From 1964-1995, Pak won 4 lost 12. From 1999-2019 Pakistan won 0 lost 14. That says it all really.

 

[Heisenberg111]

Pakistan's W/L ratio in Australia is only better than New Zealand, Sr Lanka, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

 

[ChTab]

The 1st live test match I saw Pakistan vs Australia in Australia was in 09 & since then I've watched Pakistan played 8 tests in Australia. & I think Pakistan's bowling is a bigger culprit in this.

1st test MCG 2009
Australia posted 454/5, Imo this was definitely bowlers fault & Pakistan's reply was 258 all out which was expected of by Pakistani batsmen.

Conclusion: We lost this game probably on 1st day when Australia scored 305/3 & that was bowlers fault.

2nd Test SCG 2010

I believe that game was fixed especially how Kamran Akmal kept wicket in that game leaves little doubt in my mind.

3rd Test Hobart 2010

Australia posted 519/8, IMO this was definitely bowlers fault & Pakistan's reply was ok with 301 all out.

Conclusion: Again we lost this game probably on 1st day when Australia scored 302/3 & that was bowlers fault.

4th Test Brisbane 2016

Australia posted 429 all out & keep in mind Pakistan bowled majority of 1st day under lights when it is extremely easy to bowl & they only manage to get 3 wickets & gave 288 runs. Pakistan's reply was 142 which was justified as the batted under lights.

Conclusion : Pakistan again lost the game on 1st day when they conceded 288 runs & only managed to get 3 wickets, Pakistan did make a comeback with battingbut falls a bit short.

5th Test MCG 2016

Pakistan's batting put a good total of 443/9 &but Australia replied with a mammoth total 624/8. This was abysmal bowling performance but our batting was awful in 2nd inns as well. 70 - 30 for this loss 70 for bowling.

6th Test at SCG 2017

Australia posted another gigantic score if 538/8. Pakistan replied back with ok score of 315 but Pakistan lost this game on 1st day when the conceded 365/3.

7th Test at Brisbane 2019

Pakistan batting failed in 1st inns with total of 240 but again bowling was extremely poor & Australia posted 580. I blame bowling 60 % for this loss.

8th Test at Adelaide 2020
Australia scored 589/3, pakistan ahain lost this game on 1st day where the grabbed only 1 wicket & conceded 302 runs.


So all the matches I've watched of Pakistan in Australia I do think our bowling takes the major blame.

 

[Rana]

Psychological displacement. They mentally concede games as soon as fixtures are announced against Australia.

 

[Varun]

Amazing they haven't even been able to draw a test in decades.

 

[Mamoon]

Amazing they haven't even been able to draw a test in decades.

Pakistan’s embarrassment in Australia is a statistical marvel.

Has any team in any format in any country lost every single match since 1999?

Obviously the condition is that the team should be touring regularly, i.e. every few years like Pakistan in Australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan save their best for England and new Zealand. Australia and South African series are not as important.

When they face Australia and South Africa, they usually focus on shorter formats because those countries doctor their pitches.

It's their choice to be honest. Pakistani players prefer to take the fight to Aussies in the short format rather than tests. Plus facing short pitch hostile deliveries in tests can hurt their chances to win the shorter format hence they try their best to play lethargically in tests.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan save their best for England and new Zealand. Australia and South African series are not as important.

When they face Australia and South Africa, they usually focus on shorter formats because those countries doctor their pitches.

It's their choice to be honest. Pakistani players prefer to take the fight to Aussies in the short format rather than tests. Plus facing short pitch hostile deliveries in tests can hurt their chances to win the shorter format hence they try their best to play lethargically in tests.

Afridi was right about the players. They are more concerned about the birds in the crowd than actually focussing on what’s going on in the game

 

[Heisenberg111]

Pakistan’s embarrassment in Australia is a statistical marvel.

Has any team in any format in any country lost every single match since 1999?

Obviously the condition is that the team should be touring regularly, i.e. every few years like Pakistan in Australia.

Only Bangladesh can match Pakistan's losing streak in OZ, but they don't get invited. England has lost last 9 of the 10 tests in OZ but drew one, Sri Lanka also have lost 13 of 14, but also drew one.

 

[Mamoon]

Only Bangladesh can match Pakistan's losing streak in OZ, but they don't get invited. England has lost last 9 of the 10 tests in OZ but drew one, Sri Lanka also have lost 13 of 14, but also drew one.

England thrashed them in 2010/11, so unless they lose every Test until 2040, they will not be stooping down to Pakistan’s level.

That puts into context how terrible we have been in Australia.

We are lucky that we still get invited, and our status was downgraded from 3 Test main event including Boxing Day Test to 2 Test sideshow was certainly delayed, so we must be thankful to CA for their generosity.

Pakistan is not a draw in Australia, CA always makes losses when they host us and we offer no competition on the pitch.

 

[silentkiller187]

Afridi was right about the players. They are more concerned about the birds in the crowd than actually focussing on what’s going on in the game

Hahah spot on, they treat these tours more like a holiday rather than anything else.

 

[Buffet]

So here are the facts

In Tests:

37 matches

Australia have won 26 times
Pakistan have won 4 times
There have been 7 drawn games

What is the reason for this record?

Surely we had the best players playing in these games - likes of Wasim Akram, Imran Khan etc?

Bowling and batting have been poor for the last 20-25 years in Aus.

Pakistan should try to at least draw one test in Aus. They should set that as a goal for the next tour. In order to do that batsmen have to bat big in the first inning. When the game is already out of reach then someone scoring a ton is useless.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Pakistani batsmen are weak against hostile pace and bounce. Most of our batsmen cannot handle short stuff.

In terms of bowling, you need fit, fast bowlers in Australia. Our bowlers have poor fitness levels and they huff and puff after one spell.

Moreover, we get intimidated by the cauldron like atmosphere in Australian stadiums and the sledging that gets under our skin.

The last point, about being intimidated, is spot on. Australia play an extremely aggressive “in your face” brand of cricket. At times it borders on the boorish, in my opinion.
Pakistani batsmen could never cope mentally with the onslaught.
It was interesting to see Ganguly, in particular, come at Australia hard and reverse the caricature of the meek subcontinental player.

 

[UzmanBeast]

The problem has been pointed out already, that both the bowling and batting departments fail desperately. The bowling department fails because our bowling attack changes almost every single series. There is no continuity. The lack of continuity attributes to the lack of experience in the bowling attack. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Abbas is removed from the team by the time we tour Australia again (BIG IF).

With the batting, we've never had a competently structured batting unit capable of facing dangerous bowling and relentless bowling. This is what happens when you use Kookaburras and let batsmen farm runs. Secondly, that's also because of the fact that the domestic trundlers are unable to use the short balls effectively, which is why Pakistani batsmen act so surprised when a competent fast bowler bangs one in right between the eye lids.

Overall, Pakistan management needs to sit down with a clear mind and determine a group of players who they will back for at least the next 4 years, across all formats. Lay down some expectations for all the players that they choose, and only make changes to the squad when these players consistently fail to meet their expectations or are injured/out of form.

Until the management can formulate a proper plan for the next 4 years, we will continue to get dismembered on away tours outside the subcontinent.

 

[Rana]

The last point, about being intimidated, is spot on. Australia play an extremely aggressive “in your face” brand of cricket. At times it borders on the boorish, in my opinion.
Pakistani batsmen could never cope mentally with the onslaught.
It was interesting to see Ganguly, in particular, come at Australia hard and reverse the caricature of the meek subcontinental player.

Extremely aggressive? How does Sean Abbot, Stewson and Zampa fit into this brand?

 

[shariqnoor]

Hardly any Pakistani batsman knows how to cut and pull the ball. That is the recipe for success in Australia. No wonder Ijaz Ahmed has scored 3 Test centuries there. But people generally think that our batting has been the reason why Pakistan loses in Australia every time, however the truth is it has been the bowling that has always let Pakistan down since 1999.

To allow Australia to score 200 runs after the fall of the 5th wicket in Hobart was the fault of the bowlers. Can't keep on cribbing about 1 wrong decision by the umpires. 200 runs are a lot of runs for the last 5 wickets to put on in the 4th innings of a Test match.

Consistently Pakistan has conceded over 450 runs in Australia every series. The batting put on 450 in the first innings in Melbourne in 2016 over 2.5 days and yet Pakistan lost. Yes the batting on the last day was terrible but it was the bowling that allowed Australia to score over 600 in just 5 and a bit sessions.

Until our bowling improves, no amount of batting will win you any Test in Australia.

 

[Hasan123]

Pakistan don't have the quality to compete on Australian surfaces . Batters can't deal with the bounce and pace, bowlers don't have the fitness for bowling on such pitches and don't understand what line and length to bowl.

All the talk of mental strength is nonsense. Pakistan don't have the ability to beat and compete Australia in Australia.

 

[Saj]

We tend to blame the batsmen but more often than not it's the bowlers who let Pakistan down.

Just look at the bowling unit last time Pakistan won - Wasim, Waqar, Mushy and Saqlain. World class.

We've not had that quality of bowling at our disposal very often.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Australian teams from 1995 have been probably the best teams in their history - old timers will disagree but Mark taylor really changed that side. In home conditions, especially they bat aggressively and score quickly and take the game away in the first test while visiting bowlers struggle to find the lengths on these wickets. You are playing catch up cricket after that. Pakistani bowlers bowl a touch fulller and at the stumps looking for swing or too short getting carried away by the bounce and get destroyed . Pakistan have always had the pace but not necessarily the discipline for these wickets.

 

[Markhor]

Hardly any Pakistani batsman knows how to cut and pull the ball. That is the recipe for success in Australia. No wonder Ijaz Ahmed has scored 3 Test centuries there. But people generally think that our batting has been the reason why Pakistan loses in Australia every time, however the truth is it has been the bowling that has always let Pakistan down since 1999.

To allow Australia to score 200 runs after the fall of the 5th wicket in Hobart was the fault of the bowlers. Can't keep on cribbing about 1 wrong decision by the umpires. 200 runs are a lot of runs for the last 5 wickets to put on in the 4th innings of a Test match.

Consistently Pakistan has conceded over 450 runs in Australia every series. The batting put on 450 in the first innings in Melbourne in 2016 over 2.5 days and yet Pakistan lost. Yes the batting on the last day was terrible but it was the bowling that allowed Australia to score over 600 in just 5 and a bit sessions.

Until our bowling improves, no amount of batting will win you any Test in Australia.

This. Our pacers never find the right length to bowl.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

It is bowlers most times who let down Pakistan in down under. In the 99 series, Pakistan went to the tour with a bowling lineup of Wasim, Shoaib, Waqar, Razzak, Mahmood, Mushtaq & Saqlain and failed badly. It is bowling that has consistently failed in Australia.

 

[Saj]

Something else that deserves a mention - 2010, Kamran Akmal's wicket-keeping and Mohammad Yousuf's captaincy.

Pakistan were of course 206 runs ahead after the first innings, then had Australia 257/8 and still lost the match.

I still have nightmares about that match.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan don't have the quality to compete on Australian surfaces . Batters can't deal with the bounce and pace, bowlers don't have the fitness for bowling on such pitches and don't understand what line and length to bowl.

All the talk of mental strength is nonsense. Pakistan don't have the ability to beat and compete Australia in Australia.

Nonsense. Pakistani players play on dead pitches that requires more endurance to be effective.

Problem is 3 things

Fitness :. Pakistanis aren't used to big boundaries. Not used to running more. Big boundaries test your fitness levels. Players will get tired.

Bowlers have to bowl more bouncers and better lengths. Tests your ability to bend your back and bowl. Pakistanis struggle with this. Not because they are not fit. Just not used to it.

Height makes a huge difference in Australia.
Taller bowlers can bowl bouncers easier because they don't need to bend as much therefore they are less tired.

Shorter ones really have to pitch it in hard and obviously it will be in exhausting for the short bowlers.

Vice versa is true in Asian pitches where shorter ones have the advantage.

Lastly Pakistani batsmen can't play bounce.

 

[TeamPak95]

From the tours that I've seen, I'd have to question the bowling/fielding first. Whether the bowling attack going into a test in whatever ground in Aus is, on paper, good or not, they don't bowl Australia out convincingly and they out-bat us to defeat. What is the planning when Pak came out to bowl? What tactics (right or wrong on paper) did the team management draw up? I remember in the 2016/17 tour, Misbah and Yasir had questionable field placings for Yasir's bowling where, if I remember correctly, he'd bowl an off-stump line with a packed legside field. Whenever Pak tour Aus again that includes tests, they need to not only get their bowling strategies right, but also have the bowlers to be able to execute these strategies (this is where fitness comes in). Honestly when it comes to batting in Australia, Pakistan have been overall decent so I believe it is the bowling/fielding that is the issue here.

 

[Mirpur express]

we must’ve lost at least 3 tests in the last 3 tours from very good positions..

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan’s embarrassment in Australia is a statistical marvel.

Has any team in any format in any country lost every single match since 1999?

Obviously the condition is that the team should be touring regularly, i.e. every few years like Pakistan in Australia.

I am pretty sure, Pakistan won an odd odi game or T20 match against Australia in the last 3-4 tours. For some reason I remember Shoaib Malik chasing and winning a low or middle tier score in one of these tours. I might be wrong though

 

[Buffet]

Many posters are spot on when they are saying that Pakistan's bowling has been poor in Aus, but even they(including me) may have not anticipated Pakistan's bowling averaging 50+ in Aus in the last 25 years.


Worst 3 sides to bowl in Aus in the last 25 years- Pakistan, Zim, and BD



Only Zim has been spanked at a higher rate. Pakistani bowlers go around 3.9 per overs.


What about drawing some tests?

Well, Pakistani batting collectively averaged 26 in Aus. Clearly, 260 is not enough to draw games in Aus, but Pakistan has scored much higher a few times, but only in one inning. If it was in both innings then no matter how poor you bowl, you will draw at least one test. Some time batsmen scored, but poo bowling in Aus resulted in losing those tests as well. Pakistan could have won 2-3 tests.


Posters are right to blame bowling. Batting has been ordinary, but bowling has been minnow level in the last 25 years. That's been the main reason for such a horrible 25 years.

 

[Shafi]

Our problem is batsmen only. Our bowling is always more than average to very good to bowl oppositions but our batting is similar to SL very limited of quality. It’s no surprise we fail there always

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

We could have won at least 3 tests since 99.

That Hobart test and atrocious umpiring cost us a mental block, Gilchrist was born and the rest is history.

NZ have similar or worse record than us IIRC.

Aussies are ruthless.

 

[tyron_woodley]

If your batsmen can't bat for long and bowlers are forced to toil hard on the field, then bowlers get Fatigued. End result would be batsmen not putting up enough resistance and bowlers just giving up due to exhaustion.

You need good batsmen and fully fit bowlers who can bowl and field for 5 hard days.

 

[Junaids]

1. No fourth quick since 1999. Until then their record was fine.

2. Not enough tall quicks.

3. Too much spin bowled.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Many posters are spot on when they are saying that Pakistan's bowling has been poor in Aus, but even they(including me) may have not anticipated Pakistan's bowling averaging 50+ in Aus in the last 25 years.


Worst 3 sides to bowl in Aus in the last 25 years- Pakistan, Zim, and BD

View attachment 104987

Only Zim has been spanked at a higher rate. Pakistani bowlers go around 3.9 per overs.


What about drawing some tests?

Well, Pakistani batting collectively averaged 26 in Aus. Clearly, 260 is not enough to draw games in Aus, but Pakistan has scored much higher a few times, but only in one inning. If it was in both innings then no matter how poor you bowl, you will draw at least one test. Some time batsmen scored, but poo bowling in Aus resulted in losing those tests as well. Pakistan could have won 2-3 tests.


Posters are right to blame bowling. Batting has been ordinary, but bowling has been minnow level in the last 25 years. That's been the main reason for such a horrible 25 years.

Could you pls share stats for batting? Would help understand which department of the two has been the bigger culprit

 

[sharmaji]

I think all sub continent teams struggle in Australia for all the reasons mentioned above. It looks like Pakistan struggled a little more than other sub-continent teams like SL and Ind which have the same shortcomings (short fast bowlers, unable to play bounce well, poor slip catching, mental weakness against strong Aussie attack and crowd).

I think that is because of batting failures, teams that won/drew in Australia did on the backs of great batting efforts, and no such batting display from Pakistan comes to mind (apart from Asad Shafiq's fighting stand a few years ago).

 

[NoBallZombie]

To top it off, they dont give themselves enough time to acclimatize to the Australian conditions.

 

[miandadrules]

A lack of bottle.

Closely followed by a lack of professionalism.

 

[MMHS]

1. No fourth quick since 1999. Until then their record was fine.

2. Not enough tall quicks.

3. Too much spin bowled.

This is so wrong that I actually am doubting if you really follow cricket or not. Don't you think that before putting any logic, you should back track the results to justify the hypothesis, if it fits the argument or not? Or, do you take a chance that no one would bother to cross check?

Here is the myth buster - why your logic won't satisfy someone like me: PAK has won 4 Tests in AUS - 1977 at SCG, 1979 at MCG, 1981 at MCG & 1996 at SCG. These are PAK's bowling combination and share of overs

1. SCG '77 (8 balls over): Total overs bowled: 64 + 42 = 106.
Imran: 26 + 20 = 46 overs, 12 wickets
Sarfraz: 16 + 15 = 31 overs, 6 wickets
Qasim: 4 + 2 = 6 overs, 0 wickets
Asif Iqbal: 15 + 0 = 15 overs, 0 wickets
Mushtaq Mo.: 2 + 0 = 2 overs, 0 wickets
Javed: 1 + 5 = 6 overs, 1 wicket
Basically, PAK went with TWO pacers and 18 wickets were taken by them, 1 run-out

1979 MCG (Packer compromised AUS) (8 balls overs): Total overs bowled: 62 + 92 = 154 overs
Imran: 18 + 27 = 45 overs, 4 wickets
Sarfraz: 23 + 35 = 58 overs, 11 wickets
Sikandar: 10 + 7 = 17 overs, 0 wickets
Mushtaq Mo.: 7 + 11 = 18 overs, 0 wickets
Wasim Raja: 5 + 3 = 8 overs, 2 wickets
Mazid: 0 + 9 = 9 overs, 0 wickets
PAK went with 3 pacers and 3rd one bowled less that the spin all-rounder. Two main pacers took 15 of the 17 wickets to bowlers, 3 run-out.

1981 MCG: Total overs bowled: 134 + 72 = 206 overs
Imarn: 24 + 14 = 38 overs, 5 wickets
Sarfraz: 14 + 15 = 29 overs, 5 wickets
Sikandar: 2 + 0 = 2 overs, 0 wickets
Qasim: 55 + 24 = 79 overs, 7 wickets
Wasim Raja: 37 +13 = 50 overs, 1 wicket
Majid: 2 + 4 = 6 overs, 0 wicket
Javed: 0 + 2 = 2 overs, 0 wickets.
Again, basically 2 pacers and third one was injured after 2 overs. Two spinners bowled 129 of 206 overs

1996 SCG: Total overs bowled - 98 + 66 = 164 overs
Wasim: 24 + 16 = 40 overs, 6 wickets
Waquar: 11 + 6 = 17 overs, 3 wickets
Mushi: 36 + 30 = 66 overs, 9 wickets
Saqlin: 22 + 13 = 35 overs, 2 wickets
Sohail: 5 + 1 = 6 overs, 0 wickets.
PAK went with 2 +2 combination and also used Sohail's spin.

So, your first logic doesn't stand at all - PAK never won a Test with 4 pacers (I actually am not sure if they had ever played any with 4 pacers - MCG 1990 may be). In fact, two of the four Tests were won with two pacers & two spinners combination, and the MCG 1981 Test which was won by innings had 2 overs from 3rd seemer.

Your second logic again doesn't stand much, because of the pacers used in these Tests, Sarfraz was probably 6'4", Wasim 6'3", Imran around 6'1". Both Sikandar and Waquar below 6' and rest were spinners. However, in general tall pacers will get extra advantage, anywhere particularly in Australia - BUT, they have to have skills first - just for the height pacers like Ehsan Adil won't survive there. There are many short fast bowlers that have won Tests, even series in AUS - Larwood, Marshall, Styen, Frank Tyson were under 6', Australia's own Lindwall & Ryan Haris were under 6' and DK Lille was bang on 183cm (6'0"). Didn't win a Series there, but 5'11" Kapil is among the best pacers in AUS in Test cricket's history.

Number three is your biggest hoax in this logic - PAK won two Tests of the four when genuine quality spinners bowled many, many tight overs and kept one end dried, so that Captain could rotate his two front line pacers. In 1977 & 79, it was an inhumane effort by Imran & Sarfraz that they kept bowling relentlessly overs after overs - particularly Sarfraz, he was past 30 in 1979 (that too officially) & yet bowled tirelessly for 58, 8 balls overs in a span of 3.5 days - including no balls, he bowled 80+, 6 ball overs in 11 sessions and took 11 wickets ... these days entire PAK Pace battery will be required to be carried on stretchers, if they are to bowl 80 overs in 3 days together.

I am sorry not to even consider any of your logics here - even the height issue, which is a hygiene factor.

Here are my takes - PAK has been pathetic in AUS since 1999, because of -

1. It's poor batting under pressure - even of absolute belters, whenever pressure had been applied batting collapsed (It was the case in past as well, but not hopelessly like this). Past PAK batting was County tempered, they could fight it out mentally. After Imran blew AUS in first day at SCG 1977, DK Lille and his team threw absolutely everything to PAK batsmen on Day 2 - filthy mouth, intermediating, sledging, body contact ..... the guys who stood firm were Asif Iqbal (120) & two young guys - Javed (64), Haroon (57) - Javed was not yet 20 then (Officially), and he asked Lille to shut up his "****ing mouth" and try to bowl better so that he could get Javed out - something DK never forgot, eventually it busted at WACA 1981 - these were men, you know. Put these current lot against old filthy mouth Aussies, you'll smell bad in their trousers.....

2. AUS is a team that never picks posedu all-rounders to fill up bowling quota - if it's an all-rounder, it has to be some class - Giffen, Noble, Gregory, Lindwall, Miller, Benaud, Davidson, Gilmore ...... indeed a class of their own. Otherwise, AUS produces the likes of Faheem Ashraf & Shadab Khan in dozens - THIS MEANS, while batting, you'll never get "perfume" overs from AUS - 4 out & out wicket taking bowlers, always at you relentlessly, no where to hide. Unless you are mentally tough, technically sound and extremely confident to fight it out - you won't score many in AUS even on absolute belters.

3. Negative Captaincy - AUS is not a place for faint hearts. If you play cricket there to avoid defeat, you are dead before the start, they'll eat you alive. No wonder the 4 wins that PAK had were under Mushtaq, Mushtaq, Imran & Wasim. Since 1999, PAK has been led in AUS by MoYo, Misbah & Azhar (Inzi led only one at WACA in 2004) - to say politely, absolute cowards, who would play safety first cricket and give initiatives back to AUS. Even against that frightening AUS, Shoaib bowled his heart out to be let down by his batsmen and Captain. Also, AUS is a place where scoring rate in Test match matters - you have to score quickly when the bowlers are down - I have seen PAK batting almost stagnated after a good start eventually suffering collapse - this actually will go against Captain, not enough encouragement to play natural game and take shots when due.

4. AUS is a place where you'll need to hold on to your catches - overs 70% dismissals happen there via catch and most behind batsman. PAK, being an atrocious catching side in AUS (& SAF) have dropped their way to few Tests from winning position. In AUS, first thing you need is a Wicket Keeper, not Goal Keeper and in those four wins, WKs were Bari, Bari, Bari & Latif (Moin dropped about 12 in first two Tests of that series).... for a reason.

5. And this one is the most crucial one - height, no height, spin or pace ... nothing will work unless you have the quality. Number doesn't matter here - you can pick six, 6'6" pacer in AUS, if they are Ehsan Adil class, Aussies will score at 4+.... I have mentioned Ehsan Adil few times here - not to downplay the guy, but for a reason, you may know. In last 20+ years, more precisely since English Counties have stopped hiring PAK players in bulk, the Test bowling quality has gone down significantly - in AUS, you need much better bowling plan and execution for a touring bowler because the sweet length there is unique, different from anywhere, may be bar SAF partially. PAK has been poorest in that regard over last 2 decades - pacers have wasted new ball by loosing radar for too much focus on speed gun, then failed with old ball for attempt to non-existent reverse, spinners have bowled flat-out darts with defensive field.

Bottom line is - AUS in AUS is the toughest place on earth to play cricket against, every team will struggle to match them there even at their peak. Over last 23 years, PAK lacked the skill, quality, quantity, courage & intelligence to compete with them in any aspect of the game. If it was 80s, PAK could have got away with few draws, but ICC is at fault here - they have closed the back doors to steal a draw by ensuring 450 overs per Tests .... and it doesn't rain much in Test seasons in AUS .... hence 14-0 and it'll continue for foreseeable future.

 

[Suleiman]

2002 onwards: gulf of quality and lack of consistency / discipline

90s: lack of consistency / discipline

 

[Mamoon]

I am pretty sure, Pakistan won an odd odi game or T20 match against Australia in the last 3-4 tours. For some reason I remember Shoaib Malik chasing and winning a low or middle tier score in one of these tours. I might be wrong though

Yes. I was talking about Test cricket only.

 

[Buffet]

Could you pls share stats for batting? Would help understand which department of the two has been the bigger culprit

Here you go,

Batting avg of all teams in Aus in the last 25 years



Bowling has been poorer than batting for Pakistan. The batting avg is 26 and bowlers are simply double at 52.

 

[Buffet]

Our problem is batsmen only. Our bowling is always more than average to very good to bowl oppositions but our batting is similar to SL very limited of quality. It’s no surprise we fail there always

By averaging 52-53 in Aus in the last 25 years?

 

[tyron_woodley]

This is so wrong that I actually am doubting if you really follow cricket or not. Don't you think that before putting any logic, you should back track the results to justify the hypothesis, if it fits the argument or not? Or, do you take a chance that no one would bother to cross check?

Here is the myth buster - why your logic won't satisfy someone like me: PAK has won 4 Tests in AUS - 1977 at SCG, 1979 at MCG, 1981 at MCG & 1996 at SCG. These are PAK's bowling combination and share of overs

1. SCG '77 (8 balls over): Total overs bowled: 64 + 42 = 106.
Imran: 26 + 20 = 46 overs, 12 wickets
Sarfraz: 16 + 15 = 31 overs, 6 wickets
Qasim: 4 + 2 = 6 overs, 0 wickets
Asif Iqbal: 15 + 0 = 15 overs, 0 wickets
Mushtaq Mo.: 2 + 0 = 2 overs, 0 wickets
Javed: 1 + 5 = 6 overs, 1 wicket
Basically, PAK went with TWO pacers and 18 wickets were taken by them, 1 run-out

1979 MCG (Packer compromised AUS) (8 balls overs): Total overs bowled: 62 + 92 = 154 overs
Imran: 18 + 27 = 45 overs, 4 wickets
Sarfraz: 23 + 35 = 58 overs, 11 wickets
Sikandar: 10 + 7 = 17 overs, 0 wickets
Mushtaq Mo.: 7 + 11 = 18 overs, 0 wickets
Wasim Raja: 5 + 3 = 8 overs, 2 wickets
Mazid: 0 + 9 = 9 overs, 0 wickets
PAK went with 3 pacers and 3rd one bowled less that the spin all-rounder. Two main pacers took 15 of the 17 wickets to bowlers, 3 run-out.

1981 MCG: Total overs bowled: 134 + 72 = 206 overs
Imarn: 24 + 14 = 38 overs, 5 wickets
Sarfraz: 14 + 15 = 29 overs, 5 wickets
Sikandar: 2 + 0 = 2 overs, 0 wickets
Qasim: 55 + 24 = 79 overs, 7 wickets
Wasim Raja: 37 +13 = 50 overs, 1 wicket
Majid: 2 + 4 = 6 overs, 0 wicket
Javed: 0 + 2 = 2 overs, 0 wickets.
Again, basically 2 pacers and third one was injured after 2 overs. Two spinners bowled 129 of 206 overs

1996 SCG: Total overs bowled - 98 + 66 = 164 overs
Wasim: 24 + 16 = 40 overs, 6 wickets
Waquar: 11 + 6 = 17 overs, 3 wickets
Mushi: 36 + 30 = 66 overs, 9 wickets
Saqlin: 22 + 13 = 35 overs, 2 wickets
Sohail: 5 + 1 = 6 overs, 0 wickets.
PAK went with 2 +2 combination and also used Sohail's spin.

So, your first logic doesn't stand at all - PAK never won a Test with 4 pacers (I actually am not sure if they had ever played any with 4 pacers - MCG 1990 may be). In fact, two of the four Tests were won with two pacers & two spinners combination, and the MCG 1981 Test which was won by innings had 2 overs from 3rd seemer.

Your second logic again doesn't stand much, because of the pacers used in these Tests, Sarfraz was probably 6'4", Wasim 6'3", Imran around 6'1". Both Sikandar and Waquar below 6' and rest were spinners. However, in general tall pacers will get extra advantage, anywhere particularly in Australia - BUT, they have to have skills first - just for the height pacers like Ehsan Adil won't survive there. There are many short fast bowlers that have won Tests, even series in AUS - Larwood, Marshall, Styen, Frank Tyson were under 6', Australia's own Lindwall & Ryan Haris were under 6' and DK Lille was bang on 183cm (6'0"). Didn't win a Series there, but 5'11" Kapil is among the best pacers in AUS in Test cricket's history.

Number three is your biggest hoax in this logic - PAK won two Tests of the four when genuine quality spinners bowled many, many tight overs and kept one end dried, so that Captain could rotate his two front line pacers. In 1977 & 79, it was an inhumane effort by Imran & Sarfraz that they kept bowling relentlessly overs after overs - particularly Sarfraz, he was past 30 in 1979 (that too officially) & yet bowled tirelessly for 58, 8 balls overs in a span of 3.5 days - including no balls, he bowled 80+, 6 ball overs in 11 sessions and took 11 wickets ... these days entire PAK Pace battery will be required to be carried on stretchers, if they are to bowl 80 overs in 3 days together.

I am sorry not to even consider any of your logics here - even the height issue, which is a hygiene factor.

Here are my takes - PAK has been pathetic in AUS since 1999, because of -

1. It's poor batting under pressure - even of absolute belters, whenever pressure had been applied batting collapsed (It was the case in past as well, but not hopelessly like this). Past PAK batting was County tempered, they could fight it out mentally. After Imran blew AUS in first day at SCG 1977, DK Lille and his team threw absolutely everything to PAK batsmen on Day 2 - filthy mouth, intermediating, sledging, body contact ..... the guys who stood firm were Asif Iqbal (120) & two young guys - Javed (64), Haroon (57) - Javed was not yet 20 then (Officially), and he asked Lille to shut up his "****ing mouth" and try to bowl better so that he could get Javed out - something DK never forgot, eventually it busted at WACA 1981 - these were men, you know. Put these current lot against old filthy mouth Aussies, you'll smell bad in their trousers.....

2. AUS is a team that never picks posedu all-rounders to fill up bowling quota - if it's an all-rounder, it has to be some class - Giffen, Noble, Gregory, Lindwall, Miller, Benaud, Davidson, Gilmore ...... indeed a class of their own. Otherwise, AUS produces the likes of Faheem Ashraf & Shadab Khan in dozens - THIS MEANS, while batting, you'll never get "perfume" overs from AUS - 4 out & out wicket taking bowlers, always at you relentlessly, no where to hide. Unless you are mentally tough, technically sound and extremely confident to fight it out - you won't score many in AUS even on absolute belters.

3. Negative Captaincy - AUS is not a place for faint hearts. If you play cricket there to avoid defeat, you are dead before the start, they'll eat you alive. No wonder the 4 wins that PAK had were under Mushtaq, Mushtaq, Imran & Wasim. Since 1999, PAK has been led in AUS by MoYo, Misbah & Azhar (Inzi led only one at WACA in 2004) - to say politely, absolute cowards, who would play safety first cricket and give initiatives back to AUS. Even against that frightening AUS, Shoaib bowled his heart out to be let down by his batsmen and Captain. Also, AUS is a place where scoring rate in Test match matters - you have to score quickly when the bowlers are down - I have seen PAK batting almost stagnated after a good start eventually suffering collapse - this actually will go against Captain, not enough encouragement to play natural game and take shots when due.

4. AUS is a place where you'll need to hold on to your catches - overs 70% dismissals happen there via catch and most behind batsman. PAK, being an atrocious catching side in AUS (& SAF) have dropped their way to few Tests from winning position. In AUS, first thing you need is a Wicket Keeper, not Goal Keeper and in those four wins, WKs were Bari, Bari, Bari & Latif (Moin dropped about 12 in first two Tests of that series).... for a reason.

5. And this one is the most crucial one - height, no height, spin or pace ... nothing will work unless you have the quality. Number doesn't matter here - you can pick six, 6'6" pacer in AUS, if they are Ehsan Adil class, Aussies will score at 4+.... I have mentioned Ehsan Adil few times here - not to downplay the guy, but for a reason, you may know. In last 20+ years, more precisely since English Counties have stopped hiring PAK players in bulk, the Test bowling quality has gone down significantly - in AUS, you need much better bowling plan and execution for a touring bowler because the sweet length there is unique, different from anywhere, may be bar SAF partially. PAK has been poorest in that regard over last 2 decades - pacers have wasted new ball by loosing radar for too much focus on speed gun, then failed with old ball for attempt to non-existent reverse, spinners have bowled flat-out darts with defensive field.

Bottom line is - AUS in AUS is the toughest place on earth to play cricket against, every team will struggle to match them there even at their peak. Over last 23 years, PAK lacked the skill, quality, quantity, courage & intelligence to compete with them in any aspect of the game. If it was 80s, PAK could have got away with few draws, but ICC is at fault here - they have closed the back doors to steal a draw by ensuring 450 overs per Tests .... and it doesn't rain much in Test seasons in AUS .... hence 14-0 and it'll continue for foreseeable future.

agreed with evreything the last part about australia being the toughest place to tour. Not true at all post 2010. india is by far the toughest place to tour, especially to beat kohli's india you need all the luck in the world, plus tosses to even draw a game. ruthless at home.

 

[Varun]

agreed with evreything the last part about australia being the toughest place to tour. Not true at all post 2010. india is by far the toughest place to tour, especially to beat kohli's india you need all the luck in the world, plus tosses to even draw a game. ruthless at home.

India was a tough place to tour even before 2010. In fact I'd say we've been marginally weaker post-2010 than before, losing series to England and a test to a weak Australian team during this period.

 

[silent ischemia]

Currently Australia and India are the two teams that Pakistan cannot stand against mentally.

 

[Hasan123]

Nonsense. Pakistani players play on dead pitches that requires more endurance to be effective.

Problem is 3 things

Fitness :. Pakistanis aren't used to big boundaries. Not used to running more. Big boundaries test your fitness levels. Players will get tired.

Bowlers have to bowl more bouncers and better lengths. Tests your ability to bend your back and bowl. Pakistanis struggle with this. Not because they are not fit. Just not used to it.

Height makes a huge difference in Australia.
Taller bowlers can bowl bouncers easier because they don't need to bend as much therefore they are less tired.

Shorter ones really have to pitch it in hard and obviously it will be in exhausting for the short bowlers.

Vice versa is true in Asian pitches where shorter ones have the advantage.

Lastly Pakistani batsmen can't play bounce.

I said Pakistan bowlers don't have the fitness and don't bowl the right line and length. Also said they can't deal with the bounce. Did you read my post lol?

 

[tyron_woodley]

I said Pakistan bowlers don't have the fitness and don't bowl the right line and length. Also said they can't deal with the bounce. Did you read my post lol?

I did. What I mean is that Pakistani bowlers are fit as they bowl on dead pitches with no help for fast bowlers.

Their outfield players and batsmen suck.

 

[MMHS]

I did. What I mean is that Pakistani bowlers are fit as they bowl on dead pitches with no help for fast bowlers.

Their outfield players and batsmen suck.

Not anymore- PAK tracks are not dead. And, the bowlers are not fit at all for basically two main reasons - 1. Age cheating, which doesn’t need to be explained & 2. 70 overs/day FC cricket which basically demands three spells of 4-6 overs in a day.

As I wrote, Sarfraz bowled 58, eight balls over starting to bowl on second day & game ending by tea on last day (11 sessions span), while Imran bowled 23-25, 8 ball overs in a day at Sydney heat at full throttle - do you think genetic code has changed for Pakistan & suddenly cricketers are becoming weaker?

Large grounds are a problem for LO cricket, not much in Test.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Not anymore- PAK tracks are not dead. And, the bowlers are not fit at all for basically two main reasons - 1. Age cheating, which doesn’t need to be explained & 2. 70 overs/day FC cricket which basically demands three spells of 4-6 overs in a day.

As I wrote, Sarfraz bowled 58, eight balls over starting to bowl on second day & game ending by tea on last day (11 sessions span), while Imran bowled 23-25, 8 ball overs in a day at Sydney heat at full throttle - do you think genetic code has changed for Pakistan & suddenly cricketers are becoming weaker?

Large grounds are a problem for LO cricket, not much in Test.

I think T20 ruined Pakistan's test aspirations.

They focused too much on T20 and odi instead of tests. Also Pakistan not being able to play in Pakistan inhibited their progress.

I do agree that Pakistani players lack the stamina to bowl in Sydney heat. That's also to do with adaptation. It's not something they can't improve on?
They just have to plan their schedule and come early to adapt to the Aussie heat.
Pakistan has potential to do well in tests but they are ruining their chances by shifting too much focus on shorter formats. I suppose tests isn't sustainable for their financial model.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Mentality.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Not anymore- PAK tracks are not dead. And, the bowlers are not fit at all for basically two main reasons - 1. Age cheating, which doesn’t need to be explained & 2. 70 overs/day FC cricket which basically demands three spells of 4-6 overs in a day.

As I wrote, Sarfraz bowled 58, eight balls over starting to bowl on second day & game ending by tea on last day (11 sessions span), while Imran bowled 23-25, 8 ball overs in a day at Sydney heat at full throttle - do you think genetic code has changed for Pakistan & suddenly cricketers are becoming weaker?

Large grounds are a problem for LO cricket, not much in Test.

Also Imran nor Sarfraz had to play all 3 formats plus franchize cricket, domestic first class cricket and tournaments like ICC events and Asia cups etc. Champions trophy etc.

Lot harder now on the body.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I have a completely different theory on this. I agree partly with [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] on this.

It's all cultural/psychological.

Australians intimidate Pakistanis.

Australians are very very different in nature to practically any other places Pakistan tours. I'll generalize from my own experience of meeting/visiting.

I find them relaxed, polite, jovial but also outgoing, extroverted and have a no-nonsense air about them. You know they will be nice and hospitable but will defend their corner with all they got. Pakistanis are dazzled by the lifestyle and the openness of Aussie culture, so opposite to their own. By nature, Pakistanis are opposite, particularly on tour. They are diffident, introverted, happy go lucky and by nature giving and generous. Rarely will you find Pakistanis, when their opponent is down, trample all over them. They will probably offer samosa and chai and let bygones be bygones.

They are more at home in England where they find so much South Asian population everywhere they go. Or India, much like their own country. Even South Africa with its mix of cultures.

What Pakistan needs in Australia is characters - the likes of Imran, Ganguly, Wasim, Kohli, Graeme Smith, Clive Lloyd or McCullum to take the fight back to the hosts. To deliberately shun any on field interactions, to scowl, snarl and sneer at their opponents. They need a leader who can deliberately inculcate in them a feeling of being victims of injustice - like Jose Mourinho does - and to use that anger against their opponents. In those moments, the feeling of fear disappears and all you are focused on is your own desire to cause damage. Pakistan has had a few like those over the years - Mushtaq Mohammad, Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Shoaib, Sarfaraz, Miandad - but very few. I don't see Babar Azam being like them but maybe down the road, someone different will take reins.

The other thing they need to do is to slowly demystify Australia. Which means doing an over abundance of A Tours, U19s, U15s, women's, hell even PSL team tours. Anything to familiarize with Aussie culture and its people. England holds no mystery for Pakistan and hence a more comfortable place to visit. They need the same in Australia.

It is certainly a case of skills - square of wicket shots, pitched up bowling, fielding in the deep - but it is much more a case of mindset.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Paks records is dismal but so is that of nearly all teams - no team in world cricket has a greater or more unique home advantage than Australia does.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

A bit of all the aspects.

Psychological: Intimidation just by hearing the name Australia since 99. We have always thought of Aussies as mighty Aussies. Even when we won that 2014 test series, people even Wasim Akram were like we have defeated the mighty aussies and stuff.
The atmosphere in Australia needs extreme mental toughness. We get knocked down by the roar of their crowd.

Skills: You need to bat aggressively in Aus to win. Our guys can't do that especially since 2010, we haven't had a team that can score at 3.5 an over atleast.
Our bowlers lack discipline there. Cant seem to adjust to the bounce. In last 2 tours our bowling attack was abysmal though. Apart from Amir's spell in 1st Test 2010 and Asif's spell in Sydney Test 2010, all of our bowlers have been trash there. Failure to create any ounce or pascal lol of pressure.
Inability of our spinners to adjust to the bouncy non responsive wickets. Australian spinners rely on overspin mainly while Asian spinners rely more on side spin. Overspin is more conducive on bouncy pitches.
Inability to adjust on bigger grounds. Jalebi fielding leads to easy run flow and inability to pick gaps or placement of ball to run singles and doubles leads to run rate straddling around 2.
India played Kumble and Harbhajan both in some Tests in Australia and they were pretty good there especially Kumble.


Lack of horses for courses strategy.

 

[MMHS]

Also Imran nor Sarfraz had to play all 3 formats plus franchize cricket, domestic first class cricket and tournaments like ICC events and Asia cups etc. Champions trophy etc.

Lot harder now on the body.

Wrong - top PAK (& WIN)!fast bowlers of 1970s & 80s used to take at least three times work load than modern gold gym body, that’s why their body was tempered for cricket, which is not a power game in any consideration.

In a typical year starting from April, Imran will play 5 months in County - 23-25 FC games and around 35 overs/game + Gillette Cup. That’s around 1000 match overs in 25 weeks - add, similar number in nets as well and that guy used to bat at 4/5 for Sussex - couple of hours net session per day with bat as well. Then comes the winter session - 8-9 Tests in six months, ODIs and FC domestic games ..... and similar numbers in nets as well. That’s about 2300-2500 overs of bowling in a Callander year.

Modern players have absolutely no idea what it took on body through 6 days of County cricket for 25 weeks, non stop. For WIN fast bowlers - add their domestic season from January to April, then County till September and every years, there will be a 3-4 months tour between Oct to February in Australia/NZ or South Asia - that made those fast bowlers bowling 23 absolute flat out overs in a day of a five day game.

Cricket is an ancient game and some of its features are still 100 years old - fast bowling fitness & endurance can only be achieved by bowling lot, lot many overs, not from gym. What Kapil Dev carried for India for 12+ years, entire bowling squad won’t do that for half the years. Only thing you are right is about T20 - it’s a sh!t and distraction from the discipline of cricket.

 

[Saj]

1999 Hobart - Pakistan were robbed by some horrible umpiring.

Gilchrist and Langer shared a partnership of 238 after they were 126/5 needing 369 to win.

Langer was clearly caught behind but the Aussie umpire gave him not out.

 

[Manunited18]

It's mainly pakistan batsman can't handle bounce, hence their record in South Africa also ordinary, on the flip side they have a fantastic record in England if you compare it with other teams

 

[Manunited18]

Also Imran nor Sarfraz had to play all 3 formats plus franchize cricket, domestic first class cricket and tournaments like ICC events and Asia cups etc. Champions trophy etc.

Lot harder now on the body.

Lol, far from the truth.

 

[Manunited18]

Many posters are spot on when they are saying that Pakistan's bowling has been poor in Aus, but even they(including me) may have not anticipated Pakistan's bowling averaging 50+ in Aus in the last 25 years.


Worst 3 sides to bowl in Aus in the last 25 years- Pakistan, Zim, and BD

View attachment 104987

Only Zim has been spanked at a higher rate. Pakistani bowlers go around 3.9 per overs.


What about drawing some tests?

Well, Pakistani batting collectively averaged 26 in Aus. Clearly, 260 is not enough to draw games in Aus, but Pakistan has scored much higher a few times, but only in one inning. If it was in both innings then no matter how poor you bowl, you will draw at least one test. Some time batsmen scored, but poo bowling in Aus resulted in losing those tests as well. Pakistan could have won 2-3 tests.


Posters are right to blame bowling. Batting has been ordinary, but bowling has been minnow level in the last 25 years. That's been the main reason for such a horrible 25 years.

To succeed in Australia you must score big to have any chance, whilst the bowling has been bang average it's because of pakistan batting line up have a ceiling of 300-350 max on a good day, and in Australia these limited scores are way below par and the bowling always suffers.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Wrong - top PAK (& WIN)!fast bowlers of 1970s & 80s used to take at least three times work load than modern gold gym body, that’s why their body was tempered for cricket, which is not a power game in any consideration.

In a typical year starting from April, Imran will play 5 months in County - 23-25 FC games and around 35 overs/game + Gillette Cup. That’s around 1000 match overs in 25 weeks - add, similar number in nets as well and that guy used to bat at 4/5 for Sussex - couple of hours net session per day with bat as well. Then comes the winter session - 8-9 Tests in six months, ODIs and FC domestic games ..... and similar numbers in nets as well. That’s about 2300-2500 overs of bowling in a Callander year.

Modern players have absolutely no idea what it took on body through 6 days of County cricket for 25 weeks, non stop. For WIN fast bowlers - add their domestic season from January to April, then County till September and every years, there will be a 3-4 months tour between Oct to February in Australia/NZ or South Asia - that made those fast bowlers bowling 23 absolute flat out overs in a day of a five day game.

Cricket is an ancient game and some of its features are still 100 years old - fast bowling fitness & endurance can only be achieved by bowling lot, lot many overs, not from gym. What Kapil Dev carried for India for 12+ years, entire bowling squad won’t do that for half the years. Only thing you are right is about T20 - it’s a sh!t and distraction from the discipline of cricket.

You are underestimating how hard a tournament can be. Players Condtion themselves to peak at the right time.

In tests you have 2 innings to make up for your errors. In shorter formats you don't get a second chance.

Players in the modern era go through rigorous training regimes to peak at the perfect time in tournaments. It's actually way more taxing on the body.

Modern players play domestic cricket plus tests on top of all the tournaments and franchize cricket.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

 

[Manunited18]

Both Steyn and philander are both around 5ft 10, so not exactly strapping 6footers, and both have great test records, your logic of height being absolute paramount is baseless

 

[tyron_woodley]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

India 2018

Bumrah :. 5'10
Shami:. 5'9
Ishant:. 6'

 

[tyron_woodley]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

India 2018

Bumrah :. 5'10
Shami:. 5'9
Ishant:. 6'5
Ashwin: 6'2
Vihari: 6'1

Spinners also need to be tall. Vihari part time though.

You need one tall player at the bare minimum in Australia.

 

[Ab Fan]

It's very simple. Pakistan batsmen have struggled against pace and bounce, not as much against swing though which is why they have been poor in Aus and SA but historically done well in England and NZ.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Both Steyn and philander are both around 5ft 10, so not exactly strapping 6footers, and both have great test records, your logic of height being absolute paramount is baseless

They are supported by rabada or Morkel who are 6'3 and 6'6.

You need minimum of at least 1 tall bowler in Australia. Without a tall bowler its hard to win in Australia.

 

[tyron_woodley]

It's very simple. Pakistan batsmen have struggled against pace and bounce, not as much against swing though which is why they have been poor in Aus and SA but historically done well in England and NZ.

Playing county helps with countering swing. India don't play county hence Pak has a better record in England and n.z

India have a better record vs Aussies and s.africa

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

There could be few other reasons for winning a series in Australia, by those teams (or not drawing a Test by PAK in 23 years & counting) than your formula; have you given a thought on that?

As far I know, PAK did use a similar combination once - four pacers & a spinner: Shoaib, Sami, Khalil, A Razzak & Kaneria..... here is the short scorecard

Dec 16-19, 2004
1st Test at Western Australia Cricket Association Ground, Perth
Australia 381 & 361/5d
Pakistan 179 & 72 (target: 564)
Australia won by 491 runs

Now, please come back to tell that Kaneria wasn’t better bat than Swan & each of the four pacers were missing at an average 6” height - I am waiting.

 

[Saj]

And you can always expect a controversy or two whenever Pakistan tour Australia, which definitely does not help their on-field performances.

 

[Hyperion66]

You need aggressive strokemakers at their absolute best to challenge Aus in Aus, Pak never had them. Timid lineups do not stand a chance. Contrary to popular belief, batting is a bigger factor for the visiting team than bowling, your bowling no matter how good will be carted around in Aus. You win when you outbat the Aussies, period. Main reason why we did so well in the last decade in AUS against their GOAT team despite having a bowling attack Consisting of Agarkar and RP Singh is we had multiple ATG bats in the lineup who had the ability to match or exceed whatever Aussies could throw at them.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistani batsmen have historically been very timid against pace. England is not hostile as such, it's a swing bowling nation which Pakistan has countered ok with their hard work. However Pakistan has had no answer to the hostility in Australia and South Africa.

 

[wrongun]

They are supported by rabada or Morkel who are 6'3 and 6'6.

You need minimum of at least 1 tall bowler in Australia. Without a tall bowler its hard to win in Australia.

Completely agree.

It's not that the tall bowler always gets all the wickets (sometimes yes, sometimes no) but they provide what is absolutely nescessary in Oz when the Kookaburra stops swinging & if it isn't reversing- the ability to bash away short of a length, very hard to score off with the bounce. So you'll at least have control during that period. That control allows the other weapons in a good attack the room to do their thing- maybe just charge in full throttle, or pitch right up for an over or two searching for reverse, or use a wrist spinner. Whatever. If you don't have control from one end, it's hard to do that without risking Oz entirely blowing you away if it goes wrong.

The other thing the tall bowler can do is try a bouncer attack. -Again, of course shorter bowlers can do this too, but another angle never hurts.

Lastly, if it gets to day 4 & 5 on some Aussie decks in the heat, they do begin to break up. You will get inconsistent bounce (maybe sometimes not on the modern drop ins, but we'll see). Inconsistent bounce is more dangerous from the tall bowler as the re-adjustment needed by the batsman to catch up is greater. McGrath had a 4th innings record the equal of Warne in Oz, simply because he was tall & accurate enough to hit the stumps if the ball misbehaved even after all the shine had gone.

So yes, many shorter bowlers can also do well in Oz, but in terms of succeeding as a team, the attack needs at least one tall bowler & preferably 2.

Oz choose from Hazlewood, Starc who are both very tall + Cummins who is maybe a tall medium if you will.

 

[Hyperion66]

Nonsense. Pakistani players play on dead pitches that requires more endurance to be effective.

Problem is 3 things

Fitness :. Pakistanis aren't used to big boundaries. Not used to running more. Big boundaries test your fitness levels. Players will get tired.

Bowlers have to bowl more bouncers and better lengths. Tests your ability to bend your back and bowl. Pakistanis struggle with this. Not because they are not fit. Just not used to it.

Height makes a huge difference in Australia.
Taller bowlers can bowl bouncers easier because they don't need to bend as much therefore they are less tired.

Shorter ones really have to pitch it in hard and obviously it will be in exhausting for the short bowlers.

Vice versa is true in Asian pitches where shorter ones have the advantage.

Lastly Pakistani batsmen can't play bounce.

You can't compare batting on dead pitches against knee high bowling to facing relentless pounding from ATG and potential ATG pacemen on bouncy tracks. Walking on a barren wasteland non-stop for miles and climbing mountains both requires endurance but the latter requires much higher level of endurance, stamina and totally different skillsets. No comparison whatsoever.

You are actually contradicting yourself here, endurance comes from fitness. Misbah and Younis did great in UAE because they were the fittest blokes in their team.

I agree on the last point. It all comes down to whether you can play bounce or not. This is one skillset they never seemed to have collectively.

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

Junaids, I had to recall this post again.

Regarding 2010-11 Ashes, what you have written is not correct AT ALL.

Throughout the series for all 5 Tests, ENG played with 6 specialist batsmen: Cook, Strauss, Bell, KP, Trott & Collinwood + Prior ...... unless you consider Collinwood as "All-rounder" for his 31 overs in 10 innings.

And, ENG played Bresnan as 4th bowler, and every Test they had 3 + 1 combination with Swan playing all 5 Tests, and bowled highest numbers of overs in the series.

Finally, AUS won one test at WACA, against the tallest English attack of that series : Anderson, Finn & Tremlett + Swan

.............................

 

[Hasan123]

Junaids, I had to recall this post again.

Regarding 2010-11 Ashes, what you have written is not correct AT ALL.

Throughout the series for all 5 Tests, ENG played with 6 specialist batsmen: Cook, Strauss, Bell, KP, Trott & Collinwood + Prior ...... unless you consider Collinwood as "All-rounder" for his 31 overs in 10 innings.

And, ENG played Bresnan as 4th bowler, and every Test they had 3 + 1 combination with Swan playing all 5 Tests, and bowled highest numbers of overs in the series.

Finally, AUS won one test at WACA, against the tallest English attack of that series : Anderson, Finn & Tremlett + Swan

.............................

India beat Australia with 4 specialist bowlers if I recall. Also Australia competed in India in 2017 with 4 specialist bowlers.

It's a Junaids myth you need 5 bowlers. As long as 4 specialist bowlers do their job that is enough. I would only play an all rounder in tests if they are good enough to bat in top 6 as a specialist batter or good enough to be trusted to bowl 15 plus overs in an innings.

 

[Third Man]

I did. What I mean is that Pakistani bowlers are fit as they bowl on dead pitches with no help for fast bowlers.

Their outfield players and batsmen suck.

Australian pitches are much flatter than Pakistani pitches. At least our wickets take some turn and offer a bit of reverse swing quite frequently.

 

[Saj]

Another issue is that of late, Pakistan have already lost and have the defeated mentality when they board the plane for Australia and even before a ball has been bowled.

The mentality needs to change, the mental toughness isn't there and that needs a complete overhaul.

Until we start producing cricketers who have the courage and the technical ability to compete in Australia, our record will remain very poor.

 

[Rana]

Another issue is that of late, Pakistan have already lost and have the defeated mentality when they board the plane for Australia and even before a ball has been bowled.

The mentality needs to change, the mental toughness isn't there and that needs a complete overhaul.

Until we start producing cricketers who have the courage and the technical ability to compete in Australia, our record will remain very poor.

Bro this is exactly my sentiments. They are just not up for it, dont have the stomach for this challenge. Youve got to be ready to get down and dirty against Australia if you want to stand a chance. Our guys are just not up for that fight.