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What's the best way for this Pakistani team to win ODIs in 2017?

adil_909

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We've all seen the squad announced for the CT, and now with the addition of Harris Sohail. So the question remains, what's the best way for this team to win games? I don't see us being able to chase > 300. I also don't see us batting first and scoring > 300. So to me the only way forward is to field first, restrict teams to 270ish, and then chase that down in the 50th over. I don't see us batting first and winning a high number of games with the squad we've got.

Thoughts?
 
In terms of 3-6 if it is Babar Haris Sarfaraz Malik we have the players who can score at 6 an over throughout. Just need malik and Imad to add the ballast at the end in the last 5 overs and sort the opening out. What a shame we don't have sharjeel
 
After CT, get rid of Azhar Ali, Mohammad Hafeez, Junaid Khan and Wahab Riaz. Replace them with Khurram Manzoor, Mohammad Rizwan, Rumman Raees and Zafar Gohar.

Azhar is too slow a batsman. Hafeez is too old. Junaid is not the best option as a bowler. Riaz is too old.

Manzoor has out-performed all of the other openers in domestics. Rizwan is a back-up wicket-keeper and middle-order batsman. Raees is a better option than Junaid. Gohar will play the role of a spinner in UAE conditions.

Ideal XI for SL series:

Manzoor
Zaman
Azam
Haris
Malik
Sarfraz*+
Wasim
Shadab
Amir
Hasan
Gohar
------------
Shehzad
Rizwan
Raees
Fahim
 
if they play in Don Bradman 17 or 14 they can win champions trophy. Brother, there are very slim chances for Pakistan it will be miracle if we are able to reach to the Semi`s trend wise we will reach the semi`s but lets hope our team put a miracle performance
 
After CT, get rid of Azhar Ali, Mohammad Hafeez, Junaid Khan and Wahab Riaz. Replace them with Khurram Manzoor, Mohammad Rizwan, Rumman Raees and Zafar Gohar.

Azhar is too slow a batsman. Hafeez is too old. Junaid is not the best option as a bowler. Riaz is too old.

Manzoor has out-performed all of the other openers in domestics. Rizwan is a back-up wicket-keeper and middle-order batsman. Raees is a better option than Junaid. Gohar will play the role of a spinner in UAE conditions.

Ideal XI for SL series:

Manzoor
Zaman
Azam
Haris
Malik
Sarfraz*+
Wasim
Shadab
Amir
Hasan
Gohar
------------
Shehzad
Rizwan
Raees
Fahim

Remember Khuram Manzoor's performance in the Asia Cup last year after which Shehzad had to be recalled to the World T20 squad?
 
It would be lovely to revisit this thread once we whallop IND, SL and SA.
 
After CT, get rid of Azhar Ali, Mohammad Hafeez, Junaid Khan and Wahab Riaz. Replace them with Khurram Manzoor, Mohammad Rizwan, Rumman Raees and Zafar Gohar.

Azhar is too slow a batsman. Hafeez is too old. Junaid is not the best option as a bowler. Riaz is too old.

Manzoor has out-performed all of the other openers in domestics. Rizwan is a back-up wicket-keeper and middle-order batsman. Raees is a better option than Junaid. Gohar will play the role of a spinner in UAE conditions.

Ideal XI for SL series:

Manzoor
Zaman
Azam
Haris
Malik
Sarfraz*+
Wasim
Shadab
Amir
Hasan
Gohar
------------
Shehzad
Rizwan
Raees
Fahim

Better to continue with azhar hafeez junaid and Wahab if the replacements are this bad.
 
The players need to play with dignity . There has to be some urgency and some purpose.
Need to maximize the limited talent they have got.
 
Remember Khuram Manzoor's performance in the Asia Cup last year after which Shehzad had to be recalled to the World T20 squad?

Though i am not in favor of khurram coming back.. but asia cup cant be set as a reference. Because pitches were not conducive to strokeplay and khurram was too under pressure to perform and score some quick runs. Actually it was unfair to him. And lucky for shahzad that he wasn't there
 
Pray that Sharjeel is innocent. There's zero firepower at the top.
 
Follow the England model:

Attacking openers, dynamic middle-order, explosive lower-order, a varied bowling attack with pace, swing, seam, off-spin and leg-spin. In addition, none of the specialist bowlers should be bunnies with the bat. The only problem of course is the lack of personnel, especially at the top of the order.
 
First strategy should be to bowl first & try to restrict opponents to a manageable target. More than batting, PAK's fielding starts with 25 runs handicap, therefore this batting line up will need to put over per targets for the bowling unit, if they are batting first.

While chasing - I think, first PAK (Arthur) needs to talk straight to few players (shouldn't name, but they are not unknown) - NO SELFISH GAME, get on or get out. After many, many years, PAK actually has a decent batting depth with may be Hasan Ali at 10/11 - this has to be cashed in; which can't be done if players coming early takes 35 balls to reach SR of 58 in today's game!!!!

May be the batting approach that BD uses is perfect fit for PAK as well. We don't have any Butler, Afridi, MS or Maxi in later half, hence our strategy is to sniff around the asking rate & take the advantage of batting depth - an asking <7 is probably manageable for up to our No. 9, provided that it's not too much & for too long. Our batting strategy is perfect - there are 2.5 accumulators spread-out accross the line-up perfectly - Tamim at 1, Mushi at 4 & Mahmood at 7. Rest whoever is selected, are actually asked to keep up the tempo & not to bother for losing wickets. Soumya, Sabbir, Sakib, Mosaddek & Nasir/Kayes are instructed to go after, no matter what's the situation. May be, without Afridi & Umar, this is the only option left for PAK - Babar at 3 & Sarfu at 5 should be the only 2 players that should play to hold one side (but not literally holding it with both hands), rest must maintain a decent to dynamic strike rate or get out, so that next men have enough time left. I don't see, a 100 ball 70 from top 4 helping current PAK side & a 38 ball 23 by top 4 won't help even Australia.

Bowling is fine as long as catching is decent. PAK attack can NEVER bowl to restrict scoring - that disciplaine is not there. It'll end exactly like the WACA match - lots of tight/good balls, then one rubbish in between, that's dentined to go for a boundary + healthy support from extra - batting side will cash on those loose ones to keep wickets at hand & inch closer, before the final charge. Rather trying that squeezing tactics, bowlers should back their strength & hope for the best - that's keep attacking with catching fielders & try to get 10 batsmen out; be it bowling first or second.

For Sarfraz, unlike other PAK batting Captains (invariably defensive, to a level of being scared & timid with very little clue of bowling changes or how to use knock out punch to get a batsman out), MUST have to trust his bowlers, to get him break through a & he must be ready to accept embrassing defeat in quest of a win, rather than "honarable" defeat in quest of saving face. Only time, I saw Misbah overcoming his fear of conceding runs/boundary, was the WC match at Auckland, and the result wasn't bad - that match should have been catalyst for team PAK - unfortunately, it had to be delayed by 2 years for a selection blunder.
 
Select players on merit and get rid of TTFs like Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez, Wahab, and Junaid.

Reduce team's average age. Malik and Sarfraz should be the oldest players in the team.
 
Tbh I find little fault in what OP has said. Although it is virtually impossible to restrict teams under 300, Pakistans bowlers may still be able to find a higher gear vs their batsmen whose mentally brittle pedigree is deeply entrenched.
 
Get rid of hafeez junaid and shehzad and play deserving players.. you will start winning... otherwise there is no skope
 
Drop Hafeez, Malik, Azhar and Wahab, stick with players under 30, and you will start winning.
 
First strategy should be to bowl first & try to restrict opponents to a manageable target. More than batting, PAK's fielding starts with 25 runs handicap, therefore this batting line up will need to put over per targets for the bowling unit, if they are batting first.

While chasing - I think, first PAK (Arthur) needs to talk straight to few players (shouldn't name, but they are not unknown) - NO SELFISH GAME, get on or get out. After many, many years, PAK actually has a decent batting depth with may be Hasan Ali at 10/11 - this has to be cashed in; which can't be done if players coming early takes 35 balls to reach SR of 58 in today's game!!!!

May be the batting approach that BD uses is perfect fit for PAK as well. We don't have any Butler, Afridi, MS or Maxi in later half, hence our strategy is to sniff around the asking rate & take the advantage of batting depth - an asking <7 is probably manageable for up to our No. 9, provided that it's not too much & for too long. Our batting strategy is perfect - there are 2.5 accumulators spread-out accross the line-up perfectly - Tamim at 1, Mushi at 4 & Mahmood at 7. Rest whoever is selected, are actually asked to keep up the tempo & not to bother for losing wickets. Soumya, Sabbir, Sakib, Mosaddek & Nasir/Kayes are instructed to go after, no matter what's the situation. May be, without Afridi & Umar, this is the only option left for PAK - Babar at 3 & Sarfu at 5 should be the only 2 players that should play to hold one side (but not literally holding it with both hands), rest must maintain a decent to dynamic strike rate or get out, so that next men have enough time left. I don't see, a 100 ball 70 from top 4 helping current PAK side & a 38 ball 23 by top 4 won't help even Australia.

Bowling is fine as long as catching is decent. PAK attack can NEVER bowl to restrict scoring - that disciplaine is not there. It'll end exactly like the WACA match - lots of tight/good balls, then one rubbish in between, that's dentined to go for a boundary + healthy support from extra - batting side will cash on those loose ones to keep wickets at hand & inch closer, before the final charge. Rather trying that squeezing tactics, bowlers should back their strength & hope for the best - that's keep attacking with catching fielders & try to get 10 batsmen out; be it bowling first or second.

For Sarfraz, unlike other PAK batting Captains (invariably defensive, to a level of being scared & timid with very little clue of bowling changes or how to use knock out punch to get a batsman out), MUST have to trust his bowlers, to get him break through a & he must be ready to accept embrassing defeat in quest of a win, rather than "honarable" defeat in quest of saving face. Only time, I saw Misbah overcoming his fear of conceding runs/boundary, was the WC match at Auckland, and the result wasn't bad - that match should have been catalyst for team PAK - unfortunately, it had to be delayed by 2 years for a selection blunder.


I agree on the bowling part. Must try to get wickets, no use in trying to save boundiries as these days most teams have players who can clear the ropes with ease and play 360 degrees.

Hopefully Sarfraz is attacking.

Captaincy doesn't seem to be an issue , more worried about the top order batting. Harris has certainly improved the middle order.
 
Let me, reiterate.

IF SHARJEEL HAS FIXED, BAN FOR 5 YEARS, OR LIFE BAN SHOULD BE IMPOSED.

IF HE HAS FAILED TO REPORT, BAN HIM FOR 4 MONTHS.

HE WAS SUSPENDED IN MID FEBRUARY. From then on, it would be till mid june.

You don't have any series after CT.
He would be available for Natwest T20. Get some match practice.

Once he returns, you would be one brute of a team with the below mentioned line up.

1.Sharjeel Khan
2.Sahibzada Farhan
3.Babar Azam
4.Haris Sohail
5.Sarfraz Ahmed
6.Imad Wasim
7.Amir Yamin
8.Shadab Khan
9.Fahim
10.Amir
11.Hasan

1.2 destructive openers.(Sharjeel and Sahibzada, left and Right common)

2.Solid middle order (Babar, haris and Sarfraz, left and right combo)

3.Lower middle order with hitting ability(Imad, Yamin and Shadab, left and right combo)

4.Deep batting line up(Fahim, Amir and Hassan at 9, 10 and 11)

5.Good pace attack (Amir and Hassan.Yamin to bowl 3 overs with the new ball at 2 in the middle. Yamin and Fahim to bowl 10 overs)

6.Good spin AR'S (Imad and Shadab)

7.Above all, NOT A SINGLE PLAYER above 30

Wish ur selectors had known something called "BEING WISE"
 
Theres got to be urgency from ball one Reduce dot balls and look for scoring opportunities at every occasion

Players have to be instructed that theres no "getting your eye in or determining conditions"

Play at a min strike rate of 100

The only way pakistan is going to win more odis than it ll lose is to try n post 300+ every game Whether they do that or not is a diff matter but the intention has to be there
 
I agree on the bowling part. Must try to get wickets, no use in trying to save boundiries as these days most teams have players who can clear the ropes with ease and play 360 degrees.

Hopefully Sarfraz is attacking.

Captaincy doesn't seem to be an issue , more worried about the top order batting. Harris has certainly improved the middle order.

Why not batting?

Fakhar, MoHa
Babar, Haris, Malik, Sarfraz
Imad, Shadab/Fahim
Amir, Hasan, JK


And MoHa, Fakhar to go after bowling, Babar, Haris to play normal game, Malik, Sarfraz to be busy & the late middle order going after the bowling once more.
 
We've all seen the squad announced for the CT, and now with the addition of Harris Sohail. So the question remains, what's the best way for this team to win games? I don't see us being able to chase > 300. I also don't see us batting first and scoring > 300.

I think Pak can score 300+ when batting first, however any target above 270 (maybe even 260) becomes very tricky, and with 300+ almost a non-starter to begin with.

There are several reasons for this failure to chase large totals. Pakistani batsmen today, can either score at fast pace or save their wickets, but they can't do both at the same time. They also have no lower order reliable hitters to get the last 50-60 runs in 7-8 overs, if they are already down 6 wickets or so. For the main batsmen, there's hardly anyone who can play in the gaps and take singles and doubles consistently. There are also very few left handed batsmen to allow the right/left partnerships disrupting the field and bowling lines. Finally, and perhaps the biggest factor is that, they themselves don't believe they can actually win those 280+ chases especially where they are losing wickets throughout the game, and neither they have the recent winning experiences to build that confidence.

The high scoring successful chases have been very rare, and most of them have been built on someone within the top three batting 40-45 overs. For almost any international ODI squad, a winning target of 100 runs in 13-14 overs with five wickets remaining is manageable, but for Pakistan it isn't. That's perhaps one of the reasons, the top order wants to play safer and hit at the end for those large totals, which perhaps has 10-20% chance of success.

The other problem has been lack of wicket taking bowlers. There was a time, when you could restrict a team to a manageable total, even when picking up only five or six wickets. Now every team's #7 through #9 can hit enough to get pretty good totals. Bowling a team out, is now the only way to set yourself a target of under 250-260 runs.

Lack of wicket taking bowlers hurt especially when opponents are chasing the score you set. Other teams know how to play risk-free cricket and accumulate runs based on most under-320 target scores. It's harder to get the wickets then, compared to when the opponents bat first and take more risks trying to get to an unknown target.

So until Pak ODI squad overcome the basic issues, best way is to ask the opponents to bat and get them out under 250-260 runs. The only short-term fix that I can see is to have better fielding effort, which can save 20-25 runs, and/or to have fewer dropped catches.
 
Why not batting?

Fakhar, MoHa
Babar, Haris, Malik, Sarfraz
Imad, Shadab/Fahim
Amir, Hasan, JK


And MoHa, Fakhar to go after bowling, Babar, Haris to play normal game, Malik, Sarfraz to be busy & the late middle order going after the bowling once more.


Sarfraz isn't an accelerator tbh. Also top order is potentially vulnerable no matter who is selected out of the 4.
 
Sarfraz isn't an accelerator tbh. Also top order is potentially vulnerable no matter who is selected out of the 4.

Neither our Mushi - but these are not the players to blast 20 in an over. Instead of accumulator, I think more appropriate word is "busy" player.

In my top 4, there is no place for Ahmed & Azhar - Babar reaches to 80+ SR by 25th ball & he is averaging over 50, therefore he is doing his job perfectly. Haris at 4 can bat at 85+ SR, which should be enough, unless his first 35 balls fetches 19. Fakhar is a hitter - don't think, he can survive long, even if he tries to; better for him is to try a quick fire 35 of 23 - that'll give a momentum & I do believe, if he is selected, he'll try that. Basically, it's the intent of MoHa - he is perfectly capable of going after, rather than surviving for long. Unfortunately, what he tries is to stick around with his horrible defense to new ball, hence it often ends as 23 (38) & then ops!!!! Even in his hay days between 2012-15, when he had stats like 50/85 in UAE/Asia, MoHa's outside Asia stats read like 23/69 - therefore even that 23 (38) is a challenge now. He must play as a pinch hitter or carry drinks.

Another formation is to sacrifice Babar & Haris for MoHa's protection - make Babar opener, Haris at 3, so that MoHa is comfortable at 4, which I don't want - he is too ordinary to enjoy such privilege; either he has to open or risk carrying drinks. Particularly with Haris in now, no way PAK should drop him for Azhar, so that he can open & MoHa can enjoy the old ball from No. 4.
 
Neither our Mushi - but these are not the players to blast 20 in an over. Instead of accumulator, I think more appropriate word is "busy" player.

In my top 4, there is no place for Ahmed & Azhar - Babar reaches to 80+ SR by 25th ball & he is averaging over 50, therefore he is doing his job perfectly. Haris at 4 can bat at 85+ SR, which should be enough, unless his first 35 balls fetches 19. Fakhar is a hitter - don't think, he can survive long, even if he tries to; better for him is to try a quick fire 35 of 23 - that'll give a momentum & I do believe, if he is selected, he'll try that. Basically, it's the intent of MoHa - he is perfectly capable of going after, rather than surviving for long. Unfortunately, what he tries is to stick around with his horrible defense to new ball, hence it often ends as 23 (38) & then ops!!!! Even in his hay days between 2012-15, when he had stats like 50/85 in UAE/Asia, MoHa's outside Asia stats read like 23/69 - therefore even that 23 (38) is a challenge now. He must play as a pinch hitter or carry drinks.

Another formation is to sacrifice Babar & Haris for MoHa's protection - make Babar opener, Haris at 3, so that MoHa is comfortable at 4, which I don't want - he is too ordinary to enjoy such privilege; either he has to open or risk carrying drinks. Particularly with Haris in now, no way PAK should drop him for Azhar, so that he can open & MoHa can enjoy the old ball from No. 4.


Pakistan has enough accumulators. I think Malik may be used at 6 to accommodate Harris Sohail.

Agree there is no place for Azhar. Not that against Shehzad as he could potentially improve. Fakhar should be selected as he gives a left handed option and also he can hit big unlike Azhar or Shehzad.

Hafeez will have to play as opener or sit out. Harris must play as he gives us a left hander in the middle order. Hafeez won't last long vs the new ball, that's why I would open with Shehzad and Fakhar.
 
Pakistan has enough accumulators. I think Malik may be used at 6 to accommodate Harris Sohail.

Agree there is no place for Azhar. Not that against Shehzad as he could potentially improve. Fakhar should be selected as he gives a left handed option and also he can hit big unlike Azhar or Shehzad.

Hafeez will have to play as opener or sit out. Harris must play as he gives us a left hander in the middle order. Hafeez won't last long vs the new ball, that's why I would open with Shehzad and Fakhar.

How that fits, if MoHa doesn't open? Haris at 5, Malik at 6, MoHa at 4, Babar at 3, two of Fakhar, Ahmed & Azhar opens - where does Sarfu go?

MoHa has to open, no alternative, or one of Malik, Babar, Haris carries drinks - you know, who'll do that, in that case.
 
How that fits, if MoHa doesn't open? Haris at 5, Malik at 6, MoHa at 4, Babar at 3, two of Fakhar, Ahmed & Azhar opens - where does Sarfu go?

MoHa has to open, no alternative, or one of Malik, Babar, Haris carries drinks - you know, who'll do that, in that case.

1-Hafeez
2-Azhar/Fakhar/Shehzad
3-Babar
4-Haris
5-Malik
6-Sarfaraz
7-Imad
8-Shadab
9-Amir
10-Hassan
11-Junaid/wahab

Do you think mickey will be impressed with haris when he sees him in the nets, and make him play matches at 4 ?
 
Shahab will single handedly win many matches for pakistan. They just need couple of aggressive batsmen. There r too many accumulators in the current Pak team.
 
How that fits, if MoHa doesn't open? Haris at 5, Malik at 6, MoHa at 4, Babar at 3, two of Fakhar, Ahmed & Azhar opens - where does Sarfu go?

MoHa has to open, no alternative, or one of Malik, Babar, Haris carries drinks - you know, who'll do that, in that case.


I would go with

Fakhar
Shehzad
Babar
Harris
Malik
Sarfraz

Hafeez is rubbish vs the new ball and there's no place for him in the middle order. I wouldn't have even selected him in the squad in the 1st place.

He will obviously play and I think he will play at 4 and it will be Harris carrying the drinks.
 
1-Hafeez
2-Azhar/Fakhar/Shehzad
3-Babar
4-Haris
5-Malik
6-Sarfaraz
7-Imad
8-Shadab
9-Amir
10-Hassan
11-Junaid/wahab

Do you think mickey will be impressed with haris when he sees him in the nets, and make him play matches at 4 ?

Take out Azhar, Ahmed & Wahab, this is actually the team against SRL & SAF - I am not sure about IND, that match it's a toss between Shadab, Fahim, JK & Wahab.

Azhar has no place in starting XI, unless it's a green top, in a gloomy day; while Ahmed shouldn't have been in the squad.

Haris has to earn his spot, which is fine - he has 2 practice matches, where most likely he'll bat at 4; if he doesn't make that count, Mickey can't help him. Most impressive PAK batsman in net now is Amin, previously it was MoHa & Farhat - therefore, Mickey can't judge Haris from nets only, he has to score in practice matches.
 
I would go with

Fakhar
Shehzad
Babar
Harris
Malik
Sarfraz

Hafeez is rubbish vs the new ball and there's no place for him in the middle order. I wouldn't have even selected him in the squad in the 1st place.

He will obviously play and I think he will play at 4 and it will be Harris carrying the drinks.

You could be charged under blasphemy law - how dare you drop MoHa? If you have any contact with Sarfraz, tell him to pull his socks - otherwise, first slip, PAK will be led by MoHa in 2019 WC. You can bookmark this post.
 
You could be charged under blasphemy law - how dare you drop MoHa? If you have any contact with Sarfraz, tell him to pull his socks - otherwise, first slip, PAK will be led by MoHa in 2019 WC. You can bookmark this post.


Please don't give me nightmares.

He'll probably drop a dolly in the slips as well. :)))

If he fails in the CT it will be interesting to see what Inzi does with him in the next series .
 
Please don't give me nightmares.

He'll probably drop a dolly in the slips as well. :)))

If he fails in the CT it will be interesting to see what Inzi does with him in the next series .

Inzi will make him the captain of the test team
 
Oppositions should fix matches. Jokes apart India is significantly weak this CT. So Pakistan has golden chance to win one against India.
 
The OP is talking about tactics not about selection decisions, its a given that the likes of Azhar, Shehzad, Junaid etc should be dropped.

I agree with MMHS, chasing is the way to go as whenever we bat first against a top team we invariably end up 25-30 runs short. In a chase the maths is done for you. You know what the asking rate is, you know how many runs you need each over and you can decide which bowlers you want to target.

We chased 300+ in Cardiff last summer which can be our template. Even in the Adelaide ODI we still made 312 despite chasing 369.

We also need another gun fast bowler as neither Wahab or Junaid is good enough to be a third seamer, preferably someone tall who can extract bounce from any surface. We also lack a gun ODI spinner post-Ajmal. Imad is not cutting it for me with his non-turning darters, he was eventually worked by Australia after the MCG ODI and played him like a medium pacer. We have a leggie in Shadab so an off-spinner like Agha Salman could complement him.
 
Pakistan still live in delusion that their bowling is world class. If they honestly believe so then defending rather than chasing would be better option.
 
Play four pacers and one frontline spinner and bowl teams out for around 270-280. Pakistan is also capable of scoring 300 on a good day.

Our pacers are right up there with the best while Babar is a world class ODI batsman. If we win the crucial phases of a match, we can beat any team in the competition. Hoping we avoid Australia though, their ruthless nature and mental edge over us will be difficult to overcome.
 
1) Hafeez
2) Fakhar
3) Babar
4) Haris
5) Malik
6) Sarfaraz
7) Imad
8) Amir
9) Riaz
10) Junaid
11) Hassan

A bowling heavy team with four pace options and three spinners but Pakistan's strength has always been the bowling. Batting will be heavily dependent on the middle-order, barring a special from Fakhar or Imad.
 
to me the only way forward is to field first, restrict teams to 270ish, and then chase that down in the 50th over. I don't see us batting first and winning a high number of games with the squad we've got.

Thoughts?

This is the strategy I was calling for before the tournament started and it's worked like a gem. We absolutely have to bowl first against England, and if we get past them, then India.
 
Pak needs to take a leap of faith like Both Eng and BD did. Out with the old, in with the new and stick with the new and let them mature. Also, BAN the FUDGE out of cheaters for life to show the new ones that temporary gain can make you loose it all.
 
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