Where are the peaceful Hindus?

[KingKhanWC]

There are nearly 1 billion Hindus in India.

Hinduism is a peaceful religion in principle.

From the BBC.

"The teachings that condemn violence are contained in the doctrine of ahimsa, while those that permit it centre around the Kshatriyas - the warrior caste."

The conduct of war

The Rig Veda sets down the rules of war at 6-75:15, and says that a warrior will go to hell if he breaks any of them.

do not poison the tip of your arrow
do not attack the sick or old
do not attack a child or a woman
do not attack from behind

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethics/war.shtml

Where are all the Hindus which arent extremists? Why arent they speaking up against the RSS/BJP Hindutva extremist ideology?

The nation of Gandhi is now the nation of the RSS. What has happened to India?

 

[JaDed]

The wire , Scroll , Aisi taisi democracy (youtube) etc just coz you don’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

 

[troodon]

I am a huge critic of RSS ideology. In the name of patriotism, RSS has successfully imposed their version of patriotism and life style on the entire country. Thankfully, their influence is restricted to cow belt as of now and Gujarat, Karnataka. The rest of the country is still free of their tentacles.

The kshatriya conduct of war is just for Texts. Gone are the days when even wars were fought with respect for the opponents as well as their property and family. Now, its all about the Kaliyuga. Win at all cost.

Coming to Kashmir, I support what Modi Govt is doing. You cannot have different rules when you are part of a nation for the past 70 years. Kashmir is part of India and everyone has to accept it. Will never support anything that demands freedom based on religion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am a huge critic of RSS ideology. In the name of patriotism, RSS has successfully imposed their version of patriotism and life style on the entire country. Thankfully, their influence is restricted to cow belt as of now and Gujarat, Karnataka. The rest of the country is still free of their tentacles.

The kshatriya conduct of war is just for Texts. Gone are the days when even wars were fought with respect for the opponents as well as their property and family. Now, its all about the Kaliyuga. Win at all cost.

Coming to Kashmir, I support what Modi Govt is doing. You cannot have different rules when you are part of a nation for the past 70 years. Kashmir is part of India and everyone has to accept it. Will never support anything that demands freedom based on religion.

How is the rest of the country free when you have the RSS in government?

Have there been any protests or criticism of their extremism from other Hindus?

 

[troodon]

How is the rest of the country free when you have the RSS in government?

Have there been any protests or criticism of their extremism from other Hindus?

There is RSS presence all over India. But they are not taken seriously. People are a lot smarter and can see through their plans. Youth wants freedom and lot of jobs which pay good money with enough education. Nobody wants a Hindu version of Taliban to take over the country. The mentioned cow belt area has too many jobless youth and too much excess population who can be easily swayed into believing that Hinduism is in danger and it needs to be revived at all cost.

Hindu or Christian or Muslim or Sikh, when people take religion too seriously and wish to impose it on others, they become Taliban.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There is RSS presence all over India. But they are not taken seriously. People are a lot smarter and can see through their plans. Youth wants freedom and lot of jobs which pay good money with enough education. Nobody wants a Hindu version of Taliban to take over the country. The mentioned cow belt area has too many jobless youth and too much excess population who can be easily swayed into believing that Hinduism is in danger and it needs to be revived at all cost.

Hindu or Christian or Muslim or Sikh, when people take religion too seriously and wish to impose it on others, they become Taliban.

Can you list any groups, organistations or prominent Hindus who have spoken up against the BJP/RSS?

 

[Mesozoic]

Seriously , you people should just stop making it seem as if Hindus are putting Muslims in gas chambers or concentration camps. You may wish that would happen just to feel better about the TNT , but the ground reality is completely different.

 

[Swashbuckler]

'First past the post vs proportional representation' is what you are seeing in India. Under winner takes all approach BJP has close to 300 seats. They captured a voteshare of 37% meaning 63% voters voted for some other symbol. That is part and parcel of Indian democracy, even Congress benefited from this system in the past. All things go in cycles, a few years later when the Nehru dynasty is out and a new Congress emerges it will take back power. For majority Indians even today favorites PMs are from Congress like Nehru, Shastri, Indira, Rao etc, right now the Punjab CM Captain Amarinder Singh is the most popular CM across the country, he is an old era Congressman. Congress is as much to blame for the rise of Modi, where are their tall leaders today? Dynasty politics, corruption, communalism, appeasement, nepotism, misgovernance all have contributed in giving shape to today's Indian government.

India is still constitutionally secular (not in spirit in my opinion) and unless BJP pushes to change that status, morally the Republic of India won't have a worse standing than most theocratic countries. Nepal is a Hindu majority secular state with people being very religious, why not cite them? Hindus are there in Sindh as well and are treated shabbily, ever see them react violently? Same story in Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore etc. If you want to limit to India, I do not like, even more I abhor the current state of politics but India isn't the first and won't be the last country to go through such a phase. Constitution holds supreme, it will either force BJP to change or a better alternative will emerge. If constitution is under attack, there will be reasons for paranoia. Since this is a democracy things will happen slowly, Indians are also lazy and don't change unless a critical situation arises.

There are tens of millions of Hindus who speak out against Hindutva. Many high profile people as well. BJP has zero seats from Kerala (roughly the same population as Canada and Saudi) and TN (same as UK). It has never won a Lok Sabha seat from Kerala in its history, never even an assembly seat in TN political history. TN has 88% Hindus, Andhra (equivalent is South Korea) which is 91% Hindu has a Christian CM from a regional party called YSRCP. See the state of politics in major states like Bengal, Odisha, Telangana, Delhi, Punjab, in 2 Hindi belt states BJP lost to Congress last year. Each one of them will rank alongside major countries when it comes to population, all are Hindu majority.

Disagree with the premise of this thread. Almost similar arguments can be made to generalize people from nearly every background. Politicians, terrorists, journalists (sadly), think tanks, military-industry complex etc weaponize religions, languages, ideologies, class divisions for their benefit. Hinduism is thousands of years old, earlier it had different names (denominations). RSS was formed in early 20th century, BJP entered national politics scene towards the end of 20th century, PM Modi came in 2014. If you see the larger picture they are nothing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

'First past the post vs proportional representation' is what you are seeing in India. Under winner takes all approach BJP has close to 300 seats. They captured a voteshare of 37% meaning 63% voters voted for some other symbol. That is part and parcel of Indian democracy, even Congress benefited from this system in the past. All things go in cycles, a few years later when the Nehru dynasty is out and a new Congress emerges it will take back power. For majority Indians even today favorites PMs are from Congress like Nehru, Shastri, Indira, Rao etc, right now the Punjab CM Captain Amarinder Singh is the most popular CM across the country, he is an old era Congressman. Congress is as much to blame for the rise of Modi, where are their tall leaders today? Dynasty politics, corruption, communalism, appeasement, nepotism, misgovernance all have contributed in giving shape to today's Indian government.

India is still constitutionally secular (not in spirit in my opinion) and unless BJP pushes to change that status, morally the Republic of India won't have a worse standing than most theocratic countries. Nepal is a Hindu majority secular state with people being very religious, why not cite them? Hindus are there in Sindh as well and are treated shabbily, ever see them react violently? Same story in Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore etc. If you want to limit to India, I do not like, even more I abhor the current state of politics but India isn't the first and won't be the last country to go through such a phase. Constitution holds supreme, it will either force BJP to change or a better alternative will emerge. If constitution is under attack, there will be reasons for paranoia. Since this is a democracy things will happen slowly, Indians are also lazy and don't change unless a critical situation arises.

There are tens of millions of Hindus who speak out against Hindutva. Many high profile people as well. BJP has zero seats from Kerala (roughly the same population as Canada and Saudi) and TN (same as UK). It has never won a Lok Sabha seat from Kerala in its history, never even an assembly seat in TN political history. TN has 88% Hindus, Andhra (equivalent is South Korea) which is 91% Hindu has a Christian CM from a regional party called YSRCP. See the state of politics in major states like Bengal, Odisha, Telangana, Delhi, Punjab, in 2 Hindi belt states BJP lost to Congress last year. Each one of them will rank alongside major countries when it comes to population, all are Hindu majority.

Disagree with the premise of this thread. Almost similar arguments can be made to generalize people from nearly every background. Politicians, terrorists, journalists (sadly), think tanks, military-industry complex etc weaponize religions, languages, ideologies, class divisions for their benefit. Hinduism is thousands of years old, earlier it had different names (denominations). RSS was formed in early 20th century, BJP entered national politics scene towards the end of 20th century, PM Modi came in 2014. If you see the larger picture they are nothing.

As always a great insightful post.

Its great to hear millions speak out agaisnt Hindutva. Any chance you can post some videos/articles from prominent Hindus who have spoken up? I would like to hear their reasoning.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Can you list any groups, organistations or prominent Hindus who have spoken up against the BJP/RSS?

You have to be more specific. Because there are many many voices against BJP/RSS.
When it comes to media I will list out a few names, all English for your convenience.

The Hindu
Caravan
Frontline
The Wire
EPW
Scroll
The Quint
Telegraph India

Check these out, if you want I can provide more. When it comes to prominent Hindus or organizations/groups there are too many. If you want to be more specific or want dissenters from a particular field it will be easier for me to list them. Least represented will be cricketers and business tycoons because historically they have been subservient to ruling authority, the good apples prefer silence. From the film industry you will find many names, more daring and outspoken. If I include regional organizations just from South that itself will be time consuming.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have to be more specific. Because there are many many voices against BJP/RSS.
When it comes to media I will list out a few names, all English for your convenience.

The Hindu
Caravan
Frontline
The Wire
EPW
Scroll
The Quint
Telegraph India

Check these out, if you want I can provide more. When it comes to prominent Hindus or organizations/groups there are too many. If you want to be more specific or want dissenters from a particular field it will be easier for me to list them. Least represented will be cricketers and business tycoons because historically they have been subservient to ruling authority, the good apples prefer silence. From the film industry you will find many names, more daring and outspoken. If I include regional organizations just from South that itself will be time consuming.

Sorry, I was alluding to important Hindu scholars, people with knowledge and a large following. But thanks for the list , I will check those out.

Growing up in a very mixed multicultral area, I have met many Hindus and have Hindu friends. You couldn't meet a nicer bunch of people with no extremist ideas or support for the likes of the RSS. So its a bit strange for me to read/hear the comments of the BJP ministers which are full of hate and they consider themselves to be Hindus or Hindu nationalists.

 

[Swashbuckler]

As always a great insightful post.

Its great to hear millions speak out agaisnt Hindutva. Any chance you can post some videos/articles from prominent Hindus who have spoken up? I would like to hear their reasoning.

I have given some names above, you can go to their sites and read their opinion articles and the way they cover news and politics. I subscribe to 'The Hindu' newspaper, it is headquartered in Chennai and regarded as India's best daily, Frontline is its magazine published every fortnight. There are numerous articles from many authors, hence I am not posting them individually, it won't do justice to the myriad of reasons for opposing them or the intellectual depth and clarity. The academic space in India is still dominated by the left (non-Hindutva forces), Hindutva intelligentsia is nearly absent.

Some links below, just click them and you will find many dissenting voices on first page itself. Pick and choose what you want to read

https://caravanmagazine.in/

https://frontline.thehindu.com/

https://thewire.in/

https://www.epw.in/

Some of them also have their Youtube channels, sometimes more popular like 'The Quint'. I generally don't spend too much time on videos or sites with a lot of Hindi content.

Here is a popular Youtube channel that pokes fun at most parties, special focus on BJP/RSS, other Hindutva outfits and most importantly the pro-Modi media like Times Now, Republic (Arnab Goswami the clown), Zee, Aaj Tak. People blame BJP/RSS often forgetting the role these pliable channels play when it comes to spreading hatred and divisiveness. When it comes to sycophancy and subservience before Modi and the Sangh these channels will shame North Korea TV. This media is one of the largest generators of fake news in the world .

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfM1o8q1hiCgkBpjmLCmJ9g/videos


Regarding prominent Hindu intellectuals you can search Kavita Krishnan, Nikhil Wagle, Pankaj Mishra, Girish Karnad (passed away recently), Romila Thapar, N Ram, Siddharth Vardarajan, Mukul Kesavan, Aakar Patel, Prashant Bhushan, Aruna Roy, Harsh Mander, Medha Patkar, Jayati Ghosh. List goes on and on, barely scratching the surface. So to get a better understanding I would suggest going through those links and building on from that, many of the names mentioned here contribute articles in those sites.

 

[troodon]

Can you list any groups, organistations or prominent Hindus who have spoken up against the BJP/RSS?

Every political party outside of BJP has said this a million times and they still say about RSS everytime they are on tv.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have given some names above, you can go to their sites and read their opinion articles and the way they cover news and politics. I subscribe to 'The Hindu' newspaper, it is headquartered in Chennai and regarded as India's best daily, Frontline is its magazine published every fortnight. There are numerous articles from many authors, hence I am not posting them individually, it won't do justice to the myriad of reasons for opposing them or the intellectual depth and clarity. The academic space in India is still dominated by the left (non-Hindutva forces), Hindutva intelligentsia is nearly absent.

Some links below, just click them and you will find many dissenting voices on first page itself. Pick and choose what you want to read

https://caravanmagazine.in/

https://frontline.thehindu.com/

https://thewire.in/

https://www.epw.in/

Some of them also have their Youtube channels, sometimes more popular like 'The Quint'. I generally don't spend too much time on videos or sites with a lot of Hindi content.

Here is a popular Youtube channel that pokes fun at most parties, special focus on BJP/RSS, other Hindutva outfits and most importantly the pro-Modi media like Times Now, Republic (Arnab Goswami the clown), Zee, Aaj Tak. People blame BJP/RSS often forgetting the role these pliable channels play when it comes to spreading hatred and divisiveness. When it comes to sycophancy and subservience before Modi and the Sangh these channels will shame North Korea TV. This media is one of the largest generators of fake news in the world .

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfM1o8q1hiCgkBpjmLCmJ9g/videos


Regarding prominent Hindu intellectuals you can search Kavita Krishnan, Nikhil Wagle, Pankaj Mishra, Girish Karnad (passed away recently), Romila Thapar, N Ram, Siddharth Vardarajan, Mukul Kesavan, Aakar Patel, Prashant Bhushan, Aruna Roy, Harsh Mander, Medha Patkar, Jayati Ghosh. List goes on and on, barely scratching the surface. So to get a better understanding I would suggest going through those links and building on from that, many of the names mentioned here contribute articles in those sites.

Brillaint, thanks! I will give feedback once I have checked them out

 

[PakLFC]

They are being silenced by Modi's thugs. Any criticism and they will be slaughtered as well but there are many who are openly attacking Modi as well. Mostly these are the ones who are living abroad.

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] If you mean Hindu religious scholars, I can't help much because all my limited knowledge of Hinduism comes from my parents and grandparents, I have never relied on scholars from outside. Even if it has to come to that, I am sure I wouldn't care much about political opinions of those pandits, gurus and priests.

But based on my knowledge of Indian politics, 2 Hindu monks frequently clash with the Hindutva brigade. Arya Samaj scholar Swami Agnivesh who was brutally assaulted by Hindutva goons last year, the other is Shankaracharya of Dwarka Sharda Peeth, Swami Swaroopanand Saraswati . There might be others but these two are in news quite often. Then again, my knowledge here is limited and these two cater to the Hindi audience.

4 high profile rationalists/progressives Dabholkar, Pansare, Kalburgi and Gauri Lankesh have been murdered by Hindutva extremists in the last 5-6 years. You may want to read up on that, famous voices from the Hindu community who made the ultimate sacrifice while taking on the fanatics intellectually.

 

[Kris Stevens]

It's surprising how even some of the most liberal Indians have turned blind eye towards atrocities and curfew in Kashmir. You'd expect better from the so called secular nation.

 

[Mamoon]

Do you realize that you are guilty of the exact same generalization that you call Islamophobia? The fact that the irony is lost on you is bemusing but not surprising.

 

[Amit2]

There is nothing extrimist about RSS and Hindutva ideology. It's only Pakistanis who think so. Also the leftist in our country who have lost the political battle.

 

[Amit2]

It's surprising how even some of the most liberal Indians have turned blind eye towards atrocities and curfew in Kashmir. You'd expect better from the so called secular nation.

There is no curfew in Kashmir. There are no atrocities.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They got voted out. Perhaps Hindus fear being seen as a soft touch and that is why they voted for the RSS/BJP nexus to try and reinvent the religion as more strident and aggressive.

 

[Amit2]

They got voted out. Perhaps Hindus fear being seen as a soft touch and that is why they voted for the RSS/BJP nexus to try and reinvent the religion as more strident and aggressive.

BJP and Congress are two main parties in India. Congress has declined as Rahul Gandhi is an ineffective leader. Also people seem to have got fed up with traditional political families. BJP has captured nationalistic and anti-elite mood of the young population .

 

[RajBan]

There are nearly 1 billion Hindus in India.

Hinduism is a peaceful religion in principle.

From the BBC.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/hinduethics/war.shtml

Where are all the Hindus which arent extremists? Why arent they speaking up against the RSS/BJP Hindutva extremist ideology?

The nation of Gandhi is now the nation of the RSS. What has happened to India?

So basically you are indirectly attesting the western concept of Islamophobia where they generalize all Muslims because of ISIS and Al Qaeda and hardle even care to engage moderate muslims. And RSS is not even 1/100th of those organization in terms of extremist activity.

 

[kk1992]

In my interaction, those who I thought were peaceful ones, are now promoting and supporting everything that fascist government does in Kashmir and trying their best to justify whatever is happening to minorities in India.

And their support is just no limited to just in India but also to the rest of the world against particular minorities, Muslims.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Is Hinduism even a peaceful religion? Isn't that the reason why Buddhism was born in the subcontinent, because one of the greatest kings got so disillusioned with the bloodlust of competing for resources that he renounced Hinduism and Buddhism was born to provide a more tranquil belief?

 

[Amit2]

Is Hinduism even a peaceful religion? Isn't that the reason why Buddhism was born in the subcontinent, because one of the greatest kings got so disillusioned with the bloodlust of competing for resources that he renounced Hinduism and Buddhism was born to provide a more tranquil belief?

The King's name is Ashoka. He was already a Buddhist when he started his conquests. It's a myth that he turned to Buddhism after seeing bloodbath. Hinduism is not anti violence. In Gita when Arjuna wanted to give up fighting Lord Krishna convinced him to do his duty as a warrior. But there is no concept of conflict between believers and none believers like in Islam and Chrisitianity.

 

[JaDed]

The King's name is Ashoka. He was already a Buddhist when he started his conquests. It's a myth that he turned to Buddhism after seeing bloodbath. Hinduism is not anti violence. In Gita when Arjuna wanted to give up fighting Lord Krishna convinced him to do his duty as a warrior. But there is no concept of conflict between believers and none believers like in Islam and Chrisitianity.

Could you please provide sources that he was a Buddhist before Kalinga?

 

[Amit2]

Could you please provide sources that he was a Buddhist before Kalinga?

https://www.hindustantimes.com/book...-a-pacifist/story-puxXlUpPsDy4TqELZ3UonN.html

 

[JaDed]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/book...-a-pacifist/story-puxXlUpPsDy4TqELZ3UonN.html

Thanks, interesting.

 

[Amit2]

Thanks, interesting.

As you can see in the link there was no strict divide between Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc in ancient India. It's an Abrahmic concept of dividing people as believers and nonebelievers. Hinduism is liberal and accepting of new ideas and practices.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Is Hinduism even a peaceful religion? Isn't that the reason why Buddhism was born in the subcontinent, because one of the greatest kings got so disillusioned with the bloodlust of competing for resources that he renounced Hinduism and Buddhism was born to provide a more tranquil belief?

Only religion that is entirely peaceful is Jainism, born in the SC around the same era as Buddhism though Jains believe their religion is eternal. Mahavira (Jain tirthankara or 'spiritual teacher') and Buddha were active in the same region that is present day Bihar, they were born a few years apart.

In the later Vedic period (1000-500 BC) many social evils (treatment of women, caste) entered the fold in our society, people wanted a change and that is when new religions came into prominence. Buddhism came into prominence mainly because its emphasis on middle path (avoiding both extremes, sensual indulgence and self-denial) attracted many. Secondly its move away from excessive rituals, though that changed in later versions of the religion (eg idol worship going against Buddha's teachings). At one point majority Indians technically followed Buddhism which was also the de facto state religion in many indigenous empires, before it declined around 8th century AD.

Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism didn't have strict divisions, mostly the rulers would be tolerant of all. It wasn't unheard of in those days of father being Hindu, son a Buddhist and son in law a Jain. Mauryas were Buddhist, Guptas were Hindu, Harsha mainly Hindu though he patronized all religions. Many rulers followed multiple religions across different phases of their lives. Then a philosopher from Kerala Adi Shankara defeated Buddhist monks in public debates, unified the various denominations of Hinduism making it the dominant religion, many Buddhists were absorbed into the umbrella of Hinduism.

However even today many Hindus worship Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu, same status as Ram, Krishna, Narsimha. Many low castes convert to Buddhism. Look at Nepal, many identify themselves as Hindus in one census, Buddhist in the next one, then Hindu after a few more years. That is why some use the term dharmic religions, Sikhs too come under that fold. Lots of similarities. Buddhists and Sikhs elsewhere may feel differently but in India all dharmic followers see themselves as part of the same family with a few deviations here and there.

 

[Swashbuckler]

but in India all dharmic followers see themselves as part of the same family with a few deviations here and there.

*not all, but a sizable majority. That is why one can see many Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists in RSS ranks. Many have similar concerns and motivation as the Sangh. Amit Shah recently made some remarks about NRC in Assam, notice how he clumped all dharmic faith systems together? You will notice many Hindutva followers talking about dharmic people instead of just Hindus.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As you can see in the link there was no strict divide between Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc in ancient India. It's an Abrahmic concept of dividing people as believers and nonebelievers. Hinduism is liberal and accepting of new ideas and practices.

Did you even read the texts from your own links:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Buddhist text, Ashoka-vadana, tells us of more acts of genocide perpetrated by the emperor many years after he supposedly turned pacifist. These were directed particularly at followers of the Jain and Ajivika sects; by all accounts he avoided conflicts with mainstream Hindus and was respectful towards Brahmins. The Ashoka-vadana recounts how Ashoka once had 18,000 Ajivikas in Bengal put to death in a single episode. If true, this would be the first known instance of large-scale religious persecution in Indian history (but, sadly, would not be the last).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If that is being liberal and accepting of new ideas and practices then maybe not such a great idea to compare favourably with Abrahamic religions.

 

[Amit2]

*not all, but a sizable majority. That is why one can see many Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists in RSS ranks. Many have similar concerns and motivation as the Sangh. Amit Shah recently made some remarks about NRC in Assam, notice how he clumped all dharmic faith systems together? You will notice many Hindutva followers talking about dharmic people instead of just Hindus.

He talked about Christians also who are not Dharmic.

 

[Amit2]

It was political not religious as the article tells. Nowhere it says he was inspired by religion for the atrocities.

 

[Amit2]

Did you even read the texts from your own links:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Buddhist text, Ashoka-vadana, tells us of more acts of genocide perpetrated by the emperor many years after he supposedly turned pacifist. These were directed particularly at followers of the Jain and Ajivika sects; by all accounts he avoided conflicts with mainstream Hindus and was respectful towards Brahmins. The Ashoka-vadana recounts how Ashoka once had 18,000 Ajivikas in Bengal put to death in a single episode. If true, this would be the first known instance of large-scale religious persecution in Indian history (but, sadly, would not be the last).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If that is being liberal and accepting of new ideas and practices then maybe not such a great idea to compare favourably with Abrahamic religions.

It was political not religious. He was buddhist, but respected Brahmins and didn't get into conflict with Hindus. So his policies were not based on religious affinity.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It was political not religious as the article tells. Nowhere it says he was inspired by religion for the atrocities.

Always handy when you can set aside your religious values to slaughter non-Hindus for political purposes.

 

[Amit2]

Always handy when you can set aside your religious values to slaughter non-Hindus for political purposes.

He is not considered a prophet of Hinduism. He was considered an evil cruel man who turned good later. Now proof is emerging that the turning good part was propaganda.

 

[AdamM97]

Hinduism and Hindutva are two different ideologies.

 

[Technics 1210]

So basically you are indirectly attesting the western concept of Islamophobia where they generalize all Muslims because of ISIS and Al Qaeda and hardle even care to engage moderate muslims. And RSS is not even 1/100th of those organization in terms of extremist activity.

You are spot on, RSS is not 1/100th of the size, it much bigger! Most of the extremist activities take place behind closed Indian borders and are hardly reported on. On the occasion when RSS extremist actions in India are reported, they are flatly denied.

 

[Amit2]

You are spot on, RSS is not 1/100th of the size, it much bigger! Most of the extremist activities take place behind closed Indian borders and are hardly reported on. On the occasion when RSS extremist actions in India are reported, they are flatly denied.

Well if RSS were an extremist org, India would have become like Pakistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

Well if RSS were an extremist org, India would have become like Pakistan.

Thankfully this is not the case, because India will never be like Pakistan, India has much bigger problems and is a cesspit of extremism, terrorism, and racism.

 

[Amit2]

Thankfully this is not the case, because India will never be like Pakistan, India has much bigger problems and is a cesspit of extremism, terrorism, and racism.

But India is peaceful while Pakistan is considered a hub of terrorism.

 

[Technics 1210]

But India is peaceful while Pakistan is considered a hub of terrorism.

Peaceful? HA HA HA!

Yet no Pakistani leader was banned from entering the UK or USA on charges of religious terrorism, unlike Modi was before he was PM, your *peaceful* Hindu leader.

Run along now. The world is waking up to the realities of India.

 

[Amit2]

Yes no Pakistani leader was banned from entering the UK or USA on charges of religious terrorism, unlike Modi was before he was PM, your *peaceful* Hindu leader.

Run along now. The world is waking up to the realities of India.

But he gets red carpet welcome and medals everywhere now. Didn't you see the Howdy Modi event which Trump attended?

 

[Technics 1210]

But he gets red carpet welcome and medals everywhere now. Didn't you see the Howdy Modi event which Trump attended?

Doesn't change the fact he was banned. Only plebs rate a red carpet treatment. Yes all those extremists who bought a ticket to kiss the feet of their religious terrorist leader.

If you hate Pakistan and Islam so much, what are you doing here? I am sure there must be other forums teaming with RSS activity.

 

[Amit2]

Doesn't change the fact he was banned. Only plebs rate a red carpet treatment. Yes all those extremists who bought a ticket to kiss the feet of their religious terrorist leader.

If you hate Pakistan and Islam so much, what are you doing here? I am sure there must be other forums teaming with RSS activity.

I am just giving facts. You are giving your hateful opinions devoid of facts. Can you deny world over Pakistan is considered a hub of terrorism and extremism?

 

[Technics 1210]

I am just giving facts. You are giving your hateful opinions devoid of facts. Can you deny world over Pakistan is considered a hub of terrorism and extremism?

No you have not given any facts, but have been presented with facts. All you have done is post an opinion, just like you wriggled out of the other thread like a snake.

The question is not what the world thinks of Pakistan but what the world thinks of Hinduism. Read the OP and go spread your hate somewhere else. In the meantime, stop spreading Saffron extremism, no one is going to buy it here, there are 500M in the SC that will do though.

 

[Amit2]

RSS is in existence since 1920s. It has huge members spread all over India. If it was an extremist organization like Pakistanis like to believe India would have become worse than Pakistan. Which India is not as per the vast majority opinion in the world. Something which is believed by large number of people in the world can be called fact. Not what few Pakistanis believe.

 

[Technics 1210]

Which part HINDUTVA LEADER MODI was banned on religious terrorism charges do people not understand? RSS assassinated the Father of India, and to top it off, the guy who pulled the trigger, Godse, is worshiped within the RSS sphere. Just go look up Saffrron Terrorism. Hindu terrorism is well documented, just not mentioned because the world is sucking India dry, again.

The fact USA and UK government banned Modi, says everything, and what he stands for.

The OP is spot on, outside of India, Hindus tend to be more relaxed and detached from politics, but within India, Hindu nationalism and extremism is not only on the rise but also encouraged! Well folks, this is what you get when most of the world's largest democracy is illiterate, they vote for a religious terrorist.

 

[Amit2]

Which part HINDUTVA LEADER MODI was banned on religious terrorism charges do people not understand? RSS assassinated the Father of India, and to top it off, the guy who pulled the trigger, Godse, is worshiped within the RSS sphere. Just go look up Saffrron Terrorism. Hindu terrorism is well documented, just not mentioned because the world is sucking India dry, again.

The fact USA and UK government banned Modi, says everything, and what he stands for.

The OP is spot on, outside of India, Hindus tend to be more relaxed and detached from politics, but within India, Hindu nationalism and extremism is not only on the rise but also encouraged! Well folks, this is what you get when most of the world's largest democracy is illiterate, they vote for a religious terrorist.

Again wrong facts. RSS didn't kill Gandhi. There are no Hindu terrorists in the UN terrorist list.More than half of them are Pakistanis.
Ask USA and UK govt why is he getting red carpet welcome now.

 

[Technics 1210]

RSS supporters are now clearly lying by claiming RSS had nothing to do with Godse or his motives.

Godse joined RSS in Sangli (Maharashtra) in 1932 as a boudhik karyawah (ground worker), and simultaneously remained a member of the Hindu Mahasabha, both right wing organizations. He often wrote articles in newspapers to publicise his thoughts. During this time, Godse and M. S. Golwalkar, later RSS chief, often worked together, and they translated Babarao Savarkar's book "Rashtra Mimansa" into English. They had a falling out when Golwalkar took the entire credit for this translation.[citation needed] In the early 1940s, Godse formed his own organization, "Hindu Rashtra Dal"[12] on the Vijayadashami day of 1942, though he continued to remain a member of the RSS and Hindu Mahasabha.[13]

Ladies and gentlemen, the revered murderer of India : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathuram_Godse

 

[Amit2]

Extract from your link

In 1946, Godse claimed to have left the RSS and Hindu Mahasabha over the issue of the partition of India. His relations with many members of the RSS soured, and he felt that the RSS was softening in its stance.[14][15]

Recently your PM accepted Pakistan trained Al Qaeda. Hence as per your logic Pakistan is responsible for WTC bombings.

 

[Technics 1210]

There you go folks, our pro Saffron's argument hinges on the word *claimed*.

Amazing but true.

The gall, honestly.

 

[Amit2]

There you go folks, our pro Saffron's argument hinges on the word *claimed*.

Amazing but true.

The gall, honestly.

Also RSS was exonerated in the subsequent investigation by Congress govt.

 

[Itachi]

Is Hinduism even a peaceful religion? Isn't that the reason why Buddhism was born in the subcontinent, because one of the greatest kings got so disillusioned with the bloodlust of competing for resources that he renounced Hinduism and Buddhism was born to provide a more tranquil belief?

You are mixing two different eras.

You are talking about Siddhartha. He left the throne not because of war but because he wanted to find the real meaning of life after seeing suffering of people, death (disease, illness). After years, he proposed the philosophy behind Buddhism which isn't much different than monotheism branches of Hinduism.

The second king you mixed up was ashoka. He was the one who embraced buddhism after seeing horror of war.

 

[pillionrider]

Come back when Indian Hindus destroy or attack a mosque in India.

Babri Masjid is still talked about and cringed about, decades later. And that was a mosque claimed to have been built on the site of a temple dedicated to the most important figure in North Indian Hinduism.

The nerve of hardline Pakistanis to use these BJP types to somehow try and equate India and Pakistan is comical.

 

[Swashbuckler]

So basically you are indirectly attesting the western concept of Islamophobia where they generalize all Muslims because of ISIS and Al Qaeda and hardle even care to engage moderate muslims. And RSS is not even 1/100th of those organization in terms of extremist activity.

ISIS and Al Qaeda are terrorist organizations, Muslims in those places are fighting them, trying to destroy their existence.

RSS is the parent organization of BJP, India's ruling party, a party 37% Indians voted for in 2019 and 31% in 2014, meaning its popularity and acceptance is going up in many sections of Hindu society.

Anyway your analogy is wrong, RSS is a lot like Muslim Brotherhood, which has been declared as terrorist organization in many Muslim majority countries. Were our founding fathers fools when they banned RSS after independence? The Hindutva ideology is strictly against Hinduism, it is an assault on our faith. But the more you legitimize this beast of a political ideology, the more muck there will be on our dharma they claim to represent. RSS was founded in 1925, inspired by fascist forces in Europe, they deserve every bit of condemnation. Who the hell are they to talk about nationalism? They didn't hoist Indian flag for over 50 years post independence and today they are our protectors? What a joke.

 

[Amit2]

ISIS and Al Qaeda are terrorist organizations, Muslims in those places are fighting them, trying to destroy their existence.

RSS is the parent organization of BJP, India's ruling party, a party 37% Indians voted for in 2019 and 31% in 2014, meaning its popularity and acceptance is going up in many sections of Hindu society.

Anyway your analogy is wrong, RSS is a lot like Muslim Brotherhood, which has been declared as terrorist organization in many Muslim majority countries. Were our founding fathers fools when they banned RSS after independence? The Hindutva ideology is strictly against Hinduism, it is an assault on our faith. But the more you legitimize this beast of a political ideology, the more muck there will be on our dharma they claim to represent. RSS was founded in 1925, inspired by fascist forces in Europe, they deserve every bit of condemnation. Who the hell are they to talk about nationalism? They didn't hoist Indian flag for over 50 years post independence and today they are our protectors? What a joke.

Please explain how RSS is like Muslim Brotherhood. RSS may be conservative and their political ideology is opposed to Nehruvian secularism, but they don't enforce their ideology through violence. The ban on RSS was lifted by the founding fathers only as they didn't find any evidence to indict RSS. Everybody has a right to promote their ideology in a democratic and peaceful way.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Come back when Indian Hindus destroy or attack a mosque in India.

Babri Masjid is still talked about and cringed about, decades later. And that was a mosque claimed to have been built on the site of a temple dedicated to the most important figure in North Indian Hinduism.

The nerve of hardline Pakistanis to use these BJP types to somehow try and equate India and Pakistan is comical.

Agreed, both are not comparable. Pakistan has never elected extremists, in fact most nations havent but India has many times.

Another Indian claimed the BJP are not extremists and now we have some claiming the RSS are not extremists. Can those people put forward a strong argument in regards to this? Because I have many quotes from BJP/RSS leaders going back 60 years until now which proves otherwise.

 

[pillionrider]

Agreed, both are not comparable. Pakistan has never elected extremists, in fact most nations havent but India has many times.

Another Indian claimed the BJP are not extremists and now we have some claiming the RSS are not extremists. Can those people put forward a strong argument in regards to this? Because I have many quotes from BJP/RSS leaders going back 60 years until now which proves otherwise.

Actions speak louder than words my friend. Always.

Like some of the BJP NRI patriots here who will never ever return to this shining beacon they claim is India.

So yeah.

Once again.

Come back when Hindus attack or destroy another mosque in India.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Actions speak louder than words my friend. Always.

Like some of the BJP NRI patriots here who will never ever return to this shining beacon they claim is India.

So yeah.

Once again.

Come back when Hindus attack or destroy another mosque in India.

In your world you are only an extremist if you attack a mosque? lol

Babri hasnt been the only mosque attacked. Mecca Masjid was bombed by your friends but you probably havent heard of this.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

NRI's

 

[The streak is Alive]

They got voted out. Perhaps Hindus fear being seen as a soft touch and that is why they voted for the RSS/BJP nexus to try and reinvent the religion as more strident and aggressive.

No reinvention necessary. Hinduism has always been fair and upholds valor. Too bad you feel that Islam has a monopoly on being aggressive. Its a fee world and I guess only the strongest will survive.

 

[The streak is Alive]

In your world you are only an extremist if you attack a mosque? lol

Babri hasnt been the only mosque attacked. Mecca Masjid was bombed by your friends but you probably havent heard of this.

Mosques are a non-issue. There have been countless Islamic monuments built on the ruins of Hindu temples, all in the misguided belief of erstwhile Muslim rulers that it was necessary to attain Jannat. Whta we're seeing today is nothing but a reversal of that tide.

The Indian Muslim is perfectly happy and content with whatever happens to some random mosque in India (not even important from a religious viewpoint). They are just glad that they were on the right side of partition (economically speaking).

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mosques are a non-issue. There have been countless Islamic monuments built on the ruins of Hindu temples, all in the misguided belief of erstwhile Muslim rulers that it was necessary to attain Jannat. Whta we're seeing today is nothing but a reversal of that tide.

The Indian Muslim is perfectly happy and content with whatever happens to some random mosque in India (not even important from a religious viewpoint). They are just glad that they were on the right side of partition (economically speaking).

The issue is attacking other religous buildings is not a sign of but an act of extremism, regardless if some God had his house there or not.

You dont know history, Muslims from India continued to migrate to Pakistan until the 70s because of the poor Indian economy.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The peaceful hindus don't have a spine and have a history of siding with the bully. They put survival over self-respect.

 

[pillionrider]

Mecca Masjid was bombed by your friends but you probably havent heard of this.

My friends?

By that logic, ever wonder about the number of bombings and killings your friends have carried out

 

[SakunaPataka]

Agreed, both are not comparable. Pakistan has never elected extremists, in fact most nations havent but India has many times.

Another Indian claimed the BJP are not extremists and now we have some claiming the RSS are not extremists. Can those people put forward a strong argument in regards to this?

see if you can respond to my posts in this thread : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ru’s-Letter-to-Chief-Ministers-on-RSS-in-1947

Because I have many quotes from BJP/RSS leaders going back 60 years until now which proves otherwise.

Lets see these quotes

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No reinvention necessary. Hinduism has always been fair and upholds valor. Too bad you feel that Islam has a monopoly on being aggressive. Its a fee world and I guess only the strongest will survive.

Islam is the religion of peace, Muslims in fact often get laughed at for calling it that. Muslims it seems do not have any problems appreciating that peace is one of the highest qualities one should strive for.

Muslims don't want the monopoly on aggression, you are welcome to it. But carry the knife openly, not in your armpit, that way you will earn at least some respect for putting your money where your mouth is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The issue is attacking other religous buildings is not a sign of but an act of extremism, regardless if some God had his house there or not.

You dont know history, Muslims from India continued to migrate to Pakistan until the 70s because of the poor Indian economy.

Fantastic new avatar bro, I think you should keep this one for a while. Loving it.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The peaceful hindus don't have a spine and have a history of siding with the bully. They put survival over self-respect.

Well said. They are also afraid of being labeled anti-Hindu.