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UzmanBeast

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It's a disappointing situation and a situation that could have been handled much better. For any poster who disagrees, please read some of the other posts I made regarding how NZC could have acted better.

As [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] mentioned if you got word that there was going to be someone trying to kill you when you went to someone's house, why wouldn't you alert the authorities to prevent further loss of life? Any person with a brain greater than the size of a walnut could understand that New Zealand endangered not only themselves, but also our security forces, civilians, and cricket team with the decision they made.

This is the biggest point I've been thinking about for a while: how did they have enough faith in our security to protect them from a threat they weren't willing to disclose to the security? Seems quite counter-intuitive doesn't it?

I couldn't give a rat's *** about what posters here say about defending New Zealand, they deserve no respect from us and aren't entitled to any professional treatment from us given the fiasco they have started. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please enlighten me with your thinking, because I have read countless arguments and have seen through each and every single one of them.

Nevertheless, the question remains: what do we do now? How do we proceed living with the fear that international cricket could be snatched away from us at any instant in the future?

In truth, there are a limited set of avenues PCB can consider.

Sorry for the late acknowledgement but England have decided against touring Pakistan, which is a disappointing situation. A board we placed our faith in during the pandemic, I was hoping for a better statement but it seems that they failed to convince us. "Mental well-being of the players" would make sense if they weren't risking their own lives in the IPL during the pandemic. Mentioning the pandemic on ECB's part is quite absurd; we're the ones who risked our team's health and safety by participating in tours during the heightened periods of time. I have to say, I am incredibly disappointed with ECB's statement, though they did mention their commitment for a tour in 2022. Let's see if they honor that commitment.

Anyways, I'll go ahead and list what we can achieve from now on:

1.) We need to make an example out of New Zealand; teams need to remain open in terms of communication with us if they have any concerns. We are all trying to ensure safety and security, just like how I would get called out for not reporting a crime if I foresaw it, NZC should be held accountable. It is no surprise that they too realize this, with their CEO David White taking a complete U-turn and talking about compensation. Quite literally, let's see if he can put the money where his mouth is, otherwise, I have no reservations if we decide to pursue legal action against their cricket board. Give us the evidence, or give us the money. It puts them in a difficult situation because they are already financially unstable, and it will help them get enlightened as to the situation Pakistan is facing right now; a lack of options.

2.) We need to have open communication and frequent communication with the media. We need to talk about the security measures in place, and keep requesting publically for the evidence of this so-called threat.

3.) Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have expressed their willingness to tour, from the news I've read. This is a good thing for us, we need to get as many of these teams to tour Pakistan as possible. Ireland and Afghanistan should also be considered, and we need to make sure that we are open in this communication.

4.) We will need to make the PSL more profitable, and tap into viewership markets in Pakistan. These teams cannot resists money (the top 5 nations), so we will need to make sure that we are producing a heap of money before they will consider touring.

Now is a test of our resilience. Thankfully we have some support from players who have visited Pakistan, and from boards like Sri Lanka, so it is important that we repay their trust by helping them as well.
 
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I just don’t think it is as big a moment as we think it is. It certainly is an emotional moment but not a transformational one. I may be in the minority on this.

It is a setback but Pakistan has now years of international cricket and PSLs under its belt. It also has goodwill of most boards. That counts for a lot.

They just need to chill, take stock, invite friendly teams who are OK to come. Also continue to show indignation and make noises about the unfairness of it all. I think that’s a good strategy to show some spine.

Also continue to put their house in order.

My prediction: unless anything untoward happens and unless internal security situation deteriorates, atleast England will be back by this time next year.
 
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I will just summarize a couple of main points

- Be proactive with boards and teams who have no issues in coming to Pakistan i.e. Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, South Africa, West Indies, Afghanistan e.t.c

- Be proactive with foreign players willing to play the PSL in Pakistan

- Get as many high profile coaches as possible at the NHPC, Regional and City teams to improve quality of first class cricket, players

- Invest in foreign coaches, power hitting coaches to ensure our current and future generation of players are up to par with modern limited overs cricket and these coaches are also able to coach Pakistani local coaches

- Find a way to successfully monetize domestic cricket. PSLize it. Get investors from China, Arab nations and America involved.

We are still sitting on number 4 at the ICC distribution table after a decade of no tours by India, England, Australia, New Zealand e.t.c so all is not lost.
 
Totally agree with Savak and UzmanBeast...
plus
please please dont go back to UAE.

Take pride in what you have and cherish the beautiful Sri Lankans, W Indies, Bangladesh etc.

And, ignore the top 3 or 4 (morally bottom of pile)...and use them whenever you can, hell they dont have any issues with it.
 
I dont understand what people expecting here from pcb. There will be emotions here and there and eventually by the time wt20 comes we will accept what has happened and move on. Like always we will continue negotiations with te, give their security advisors vip trips to convince them we are safe and keep on waiting for their decision.

You guys are miffed that nz and england pulled out. I made a thread where i mentioned the hypocrisy of afg pulling out and people laughed that i actually wanted afg to tour us.

Guess what, eventually we wont be having Afg or bangladesh touring us either.

You know what a sane or cunning board administration would had done here?

They would had backed out of the icc ftp, would had signed a deal with some big tv broadcaster and made the psl a 6 to 8 month long tournament.

Icc would had come begging to stop us and if we are actually making profits this way only than we would have held a trump card.
 
The first thing PCB needs to do is grow a pair.

Let New Zealand, Australia and England know that we will not be touring again UNTIL you tour us FIRST. NO MORE AWAY SERIES’ IN THESE 3 COUNTRIES UNTIL WE GET WHAT WE WANT.

I’ll be really disappointed if we go to England next summer, what a bayzateeee.

We all know some posters here will say that as long as India tours them then it’s not a big deal if Pakistan doesn’t come. But, it’s not about trying to financially hurt ECB, CA and NZC, it’s about focusing on our own priorities first.

Let’s extend the PSL to 6 months and the other 6 months we can play away tours in SA, WI, SL and BD.

It’s time to stop bending over to these scums.
 
I just don’t think it is as big a moment as we think it is. It certainly is an emotional moment but not a transformational one. I may be in the minority on this.

It is a setback but Pakistan has now years of international cricket and PSLs under its belt. It also has goodwill of most boards. That counts for a lot.

They just need to chill, take stock, invite friendly teams who are OK to come. Also continue to show indignation and make noises about the unfairness of it all. I think that’s a good strategy to show some spine.

Also continue to put their house in order.

My prediction: unless anything untoward happens and unless internal security situation deteriorates, atleast England will but back by this time next year.

In cricketing terms / all matters cricket, I am with you. Staying calm and letting cooler heads prevail will do more wonders to PAK cricket than the edgy line we have may be tempted to toe in such circumstances.

From a cricketing perspective PAK has seen some tough times. The unfortunate part is that PAK has not had good direction to try and diversify, augment and sustain its revenue streams.
 
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The Prime Minister Imran Khan has to take cognizance of the situation and actually needs to devote some proper time to Cricket as well. The govt of Pakistan needs to back the PCB and maybe even give them monetary injections allowing them to fix the grounds, domestic structure e.t.c.
 
To the OP - Usman baita / bhai, I think you posted in another thread last evening about some of the points below which should benefit PAK:
- increasing the frequency of games against WIN, SAF, BAN, SRL, ZIM, AFG etc. Given the appetite for cricket in PAK fans this is a very good proposition. In any case, PAK needs to appreciate the reality of the times and how much '09 has hurt us. Perhaps thinking about it along the lines that to break into the top leagues PAK needs to go via the smaller leagues first may the right attitude. In any case, I hope you / other posters here are not too young to have forgotten periods where PAK, SRL and IND seemed to be playing each other or SRL far too often

- agreeing some sort of a cost sharing model if Pakistan are to play at a neutral venue and asking to also then play away series at a neutral venue. The amount of lobbying this will require will be immense with a feeble chance of success. However, David White (NZ CEO) said today that:
i. compensation for lost revenue would discussed in due course
ii. that abandoning the tour would not go against NZC when it's Pakistan's turn to tour NZC

- as much as I am not a proponent of the format or follower of the leagues, PCB will need to continue to ensure the success of PSL through and through to monetise the 220 million

The tone David White struck was conciliatory and diplomatic instead of one where the door gets forced down (like the line he was towing when it came to sharing any details of the threat).

Finally, and I think this was also discussed on one of the earlier threads yesterday, when it came to ENG's withdrawal; given they were withdrawing from afar they had to give a reason unlike NZC who didn't feel they needed to (we disagree and this has been discussed at length). In any case it again seems to be the case that Pakistan's stature is not an open and shut case of making PCB toe the line ENA boards wish us to toe without discussion.

I would not worry about the cricketing aspect with apocalyptic resignation. Re. NZ the key was their actions which potentially have risked far, far too many lives. ENG were always going to cite some amalgam of reasons instead of giving any specific details of any threat.

Keep moving forward and I too feel unless something catastrophic happens domestically or involving overseas teams, we may still have visitors in '22 or '23.
 
Should the PCB go rouge and break free from the sides ICC?

Break free from the ICC and align itself with non ICC member cricketing countries?
 
Play exhibition matches or "glorified" friendly matches in short run.

Get those selected international XI, or retired players, build some confidence among world cricket, and spend enormous money. The latter part is key, without big money, Pakistan has little incentive for the overseas players and boards.
 
I think Pakistan should do these -

1) Continue to invite teams like Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Ireland, and possibly South Africa.

2) Continue to hold PSL in Pakistan.
 
To the OP - Usman baita / bhai, I think you posted in another thread last evening about some of the points below which should benefit PAK:
- increasing the frequency of games against WIN, SAF, BAN, SRL, ZIM, AFG etc. Given the appetite for cricket in PAK fans this is a very good proposition. In any case, PAK needs to appreciate the reality of the times and how much '09 has hurt us. Perhaps thinking about it along the lines that to break into the top leagues PAK needs to go via the smaller leagues first may the right attitude. In any case, I hope you / other posters here are not too young to have forgotten periods where PAK, SRL and IND seemed to be playing each other or SRL far too often

- agreeing some sort of a cost sharing model if Pakistan are to play at a neutral venue and asking to also then play away series at a neutral venue. The amount of lobbying this will require will be immense with a feeble chance of success. However, David White (NZ CEO) said today that:
i. compensation for lost revenue would discussed in due course
ii. that abandoning the tour would not go against NZC when it's Pakistan's turn to tour NZC

- as much as I am not a proponent of the format or follower of the leagues, PCB will need to continue to ensure the success of PSL through and through to monetise the 220 million

The tone David White struck was conciliatory and diplomatic instead of one where the door gets forced down (like the line he was towing when it came to sharing any details of the threat).

Finally, and I think this was also discussed on one of the earlier threads yesterday, when it came to ENG's withdrawal; given they were withdrawing from afar they had to give a reason unlike NZC who didn't feel they needed to (we disagree and this has been discussed at length). In any case it again seems to be the case that Pakistan's stature is not an open and shut case of making PCB toe the line ENA boards wish us to toe without discussion.

I would not worry about the cricketing aspect with apocalyptic resignation. Re. NZ the key was their actions which potentially have risked far, far too many lives. ENG were always going to cite some amalgam of reasons instead of giving any specific details of any threat.

Keep moving forward and I too feel unless something catastrophic happens domestically or involving overseas teams, we may still have visitors in '22 or '23.

David White knows that his cricket board was looking foolish in the eyes of many. Their expectation was that PCB would roll over and understand, but our stubbornness helped us prove a point, and I don't think we should stop here.

Nothing personal against New Zealand fans, but PCB should take strict, decisive action against NCZ straight away. If David White is so keen on using compensation as a means to divert criticism and attention from the board, by all means, their board should rake out the cash.

I know how feeble these politics are: these statements are made to appease the general public. Had our fans and players not rightfully criticized the decision, New Zealand Cricket Board would have continued on their merry journey. They are under the pump, and it's our turn to deal them a few hits they'll remember for a while.
[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] has been rightly pointing this out: you cannot be lenient with something as serious as this is. You need to make sure that these boards understand that they are not big enough to try and boss us around on our own soil.

Money rules the world. Money is what all these boards want. As soon as you find a way to strip some cash away from them, their priorities change and they will go to many ends to appease you. I have seen the greed for cash through my own eyes, and I can surely say that we have cornered New Zealand to a very good extent.

Think about the situation: their government told them not to share information, meaning that they cannot share this information even though they should. Their government got involved, and they made a unilateral decision. They are not willing to disclose this evidence, so if they aren't, they have already made the mistake of talking about compensation. Not only does the PCB have the claim that this decision was baseless (because we cannot take into account how factual the evidence was since no other party has been allowed to review it), we have a statement from their CEO talking about recommendation. For a board as small as NZC, that sum of cash is extremely important and could set back their financial plans for a while. Teams right now have busy international seasons; they are unlikely to get a tour from another Big 3 nation for a while, so they are clearly lacking the options. Losing money for them would be the equivalent of cutting an arm off; they'd probably much rather do something else. Their desperation to get Pakistan to host at a neutral venue backfired when Wasim Khan made it clear we were not going to compromise on home cricket. They have virtually no options apart from leaking the information (which they can't do) or pay this extraordinary sum of money (in comparison to their board's revenue, it is a gigantic sum of money).

If we sit and do nothing, NZC will get away with this. If you make an example out of a team, you will make sure that other teams take note and understand what happens if you try and make unilateral decisions in tours.

It is the best way forward. I think this should provide a lot of clarity for a few others who don't understand why I am pushing for compensation.
 
It's a disappointing situation and a situation that could have been handled much better. For any poster who disagrees, please read some of the other posts I made regarding how NZC could have acted better.

As [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] mentioned if you got word that there was going to be someone trying to kill you when you went to someone's house, why wouldn't you alert the authorities to prevent further loss of life? Any person with a brain greater than the size of a walnut could understand that New Zealand endangered not only themselves, but also our security forces, civilians, and cricket team with the decision they made.

This is the biggest point I've been thinking about for a while: how did they have enough faith in our security to protect them from a threat they weren't willing to disclose to the security? Seems quite counter-intuitive doesn't it?

I couldn't give a rat's *** about what posters here say about defending New Zealand, they deserve no respect from us and aren't entitled to any professional treatment from us given the fiasco they have started. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please enlighten me with your thinking, because I have read countless arguments and have seen through each and every single one of them.

Nevertheless, the question remains: what do we do now? How do we proceed living with the fear that international cricket could be snatched away from us at any instant in the future?

In truth, there are a limited set of avenues PCB can consider.

Sorry for the late acknowledgement but England have decided against touring Pakistan, which is a disappointing situation. A board we placed our faith in during the pandemic, I was hoping for a better statement but it seems that they failed to convince us. "Mental well-being of the players" would make sense if they weren't risking their own lives in the IPL during the pandemic. Mentioning the pandemic on ECB's part is quite absurd; we're the ones who risked our team's health and safety by participating in tours during the heightened periods of time. I have to say, I am incredibly disappointed with ECB's statement, though they did mention their commitment for a tour in 2022. Let's see if they honor that commitment.

Anyways, I'll go ahead and list what we can achieve from now on:

1.) We need to make an example out of New Zealand; teams need to remain open in terms of communication with us if they have any concerns. We are all trying to ensure safety and security, just like how I would get called out for not reporting a crime if I foresaw it, NZC should be held accountable. It is no surprise that they too realize this, with their CEO David White taking a complete U-turn and talking about compensation. Quite literally, let's see if he can put the money where his mouth is, otherwise, I have no reservations if we decide to pursue legal action against their cricket board. Give us the evidence, or give us the money. It puts them in a difficult situation because they are already financially unstable, and it will help them get enlightened as to the situation Pakistan is facing right now; a lack of options.

2.) We need to have open communication and frequent communication with the media. We need to talk about the security measures in place, and keep requesting publically for the evidence of this so-called threat.

3.) Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have expressed their willingness to tour, from the news I've read. This is a good thing for us, we need to get as many of these teams to tour Pakistan as possible. Ireland and Afghanistan should also be considered, and we need to make sure that we are open in this communication.

4.) We will need to make the PSL more profitable, and tap into viewership markets in Pakistan. These teams cannot resists money (the top 5 nations), so we will need to make sure that we are producing a heap of money before they will consider touring.

Now is a test of our resilience. Thankfully we have some support from players who have visited Pakistan, and from boards like Sri Lanka, so it is important that we repay their trust by helping them as well.


You don't understand.

All these moves to choke Pakistan cricket, are POLITICAL!

PCB can't do much about it. PCB can't "Punish" any other board who are also only pawns on this chess board of politics.

The international politics has not only become super ugly, but it's also spreading like wild fires.
And now sports has also been set ablaze by this.

We need to get down from our high horse and play a more diplomatic and long term game. We should patiently wait for the right moment to strike back politically.

For now, we should face the reality and put a pause on our efforts to bring back international cricket in Pakistan. Forget it. Don't waste time and energy, you will only get more disappointment.

We should focus more on international tours and perhaps look into South Africa as our second neutral venue besides UAE.

We need to play competitive level international cricket with top teams regardless of whether it's in Pakistan or abroad. THAT SHOULD BE THE FOCUS AND THIS IS WHERE WE SHOULD GO FROM HERE.
 
We should focus more on international tours and perhaps look into South Africa as our second neutral venue besides UAE.

I concur with the post wholeheartedly, there's absolutely nothing that the PCB can do at this stage given the state of geopolitics, the country has aligned itself with the opposite bloc and a cultural (read sporting) boycott is a predictable response by the west.

There is no need to cut off one's nose to spite one's face by boycotting international cricket, when that is exactly the objective of the antagonists.

From a pure cricketing standpoint, choosing South Africa as a neutral venue might involve some short-term pain but makes a lot of long-term sense given that it will help the team acclimatize to bowler-friendly conditions and increase the likelihood of beating those same antagonists in the long-run. Playing in Asian conditions makes no sense anymore as India doesn't play Pakistan.
 
Logical decision will be to boycott the World Cup in India.
Why would you do something stupid like that? When India has officially nothing to do with what's gone on. I say officially, because I assume you belong to the conspiratorialists who believe India were doing backroom work recently.

Pakistan can actually win in UAE. :inti
Only if Kohli is captain :inti
 
I agree we need to make an example out of New Zealand. The sweat was palpable on David White shining bald head as he groveled at Pakistan to not be vindictive when the time came to tour New Zealand.

That tells me that he is genuinely scared of the prospect of Pakistan not touring which doesn't surprise me considering cricket is a struggling sport in New Zealand that doesn't make a whole lot of money.

So I hope Pakistan are as vindictive as they possibly can be. If an eye for an eye is how is has to be, then that is how it has to be.
 
Break free from the ICC and align itself with non ICC member cricketing countries?

No need to cut your nose off to spite your face.

Pakistan is not important enough, nor as important as the Big 3, so people won't be coming running after us.
 
The Prime Minister Imran Khan has to take cognizance of the situation and actually needs to devote some proper time to Cricket as well. The govt of Pakistan needs to back the PCB and maybe even give them monetary injections allowing them to fix the grounds, domestic structure e.t.c.

has Imran spoken on the issue? Only he would know what Jacinda told him. Maybe make that public.
 
PCB should keep hosting teams who are willing to tour Pakistan.

And those who don't want to come should be asked to bear the costs of neutral venue....if they don't agree then don't play them

PCB must also look to expand PSL to cover for loss of home fixtures and revenue.
Add more teams or increase the limit of foreign players.
 
Consequences of Boycotting Foreign Tours and ICC Tournaments

Rameez Raja is suggesting that Pakistan should be the best team in world and only then Western bloc countries will start touring.

For that to happen Pakistan will have to not only compete in ICC Tournaments but win it. Pakistan will have to play minimum 4 to 5 Test match series in England Australia New Zealand.

It really is a disaster that PCB has not organized a 5 match Test series for Pakistan since 1992. By inviting and playing against Sri lanka, Proteas, Bangladesh and West Indies will not improve our cricket standard. You need to compete and play against the best and beat them to get international recognition. Look at Italians, how they beat England at Wembley in Euro Final in July. They got recognition not because they beat Switzerland or Austria but because they beat Belgium, Spain and England.

South Africa kept their cricket alive during aparthied era ban 1970-1991.

If Pakistan will refuse to tour Western Bloc countries then our Cricket will follow Hockey route.
Our options are very limited.

Playing on neutral venue option shall not be taken off altogether and by sweeping statements.
 
I will just summarize a couple of main points

- Be proactive with boards and teams who have no issues in coming to Pakistan i.e. Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, South Africa, West Indies, Afghanistan e.t.c

- Be proactive with foreign players willing to play the PSL in Pakistan

- Get as many high profile coaches as possible at the NHPC, Regional and City teams to improve quality of first class cricket, players

- Invest in foreign coaches, power hitting coaches to ensure our current and future generation of players are up to par with modern limited overs cricket and these coaches are also able to coach Pakistani local coaches

- Find a way to successfully monetize domestic cricket. PSLize it. Get investors from China, Arab nations and America involved.

We are still sitting on number 4 at the ICC distribution table after a decade of no tours by India, England, Australia, New Zealand e.t.c so all is not lost.

How are you ranked no.4? England are no.4 in Tests and Pakistan no.5
 
Play the likes of WI Bangla Sri Lanka n Sth africa

Boycott the away tours to other countries until they decide to play in pakistan

In the meantime strengthen the domestic structure and tap into the 200m populstion and monetise the cricket

Create a strong domestic structure

Running after the western boards like they have will not help pakistan cricket Its time to take a tougher stance
 
I agree we need to make an example out of New Zealand. The sweat was palpable on David White shining bald head as he groveled at Pakistan to not be vindictive when the time came to tour New Zealand.

That tells me that he is genuinely scared of the prospect of Pakistan not touring which doesn't surprise me considering cricket is a struggling sport in New Zealand that doesn't make a whole lot of money.

So I hope Pakistan are as vindictive as they possibly can be. If an eye for an eye is how is has to be, then that is how it has to be.

The reason why this doesnt work is that touring a country like NZ is a chance of a lifetime for our players to have some time out, have a social life, enjoy a modern country and get some cash rewards.

If we skip the tour of NZ, we miss out a top infrastructure country from economy and development point of view and PCB officials miss out on the joyride.

But when NZ tours us, it tours a poor country which is heavily in debt and struggling economy.

The quality of life they miss out on makes no difference to them.

That is why tours of NZ, England and Australia can never be cancelled.

It just isnt feasible.
 
The reason why this doesnt work is that touring a country like NZ is a chance of a lifetime for our players to have some time out, have a social life, enjoy a modern country and get some cash rewards.

If we skip the tour of NZ, we miss out a top infrastructure country from economy and development point of view and PCB officials miss out on the joyride.

But when NZ tours us, it tours a poor country which is heavily in debt and struggling economy.

The quality of life they miss out on makes no difference to them.

That is why tours of NZ, England and Australia can never be cancelled.

It just isnt feasible.

I don't think that's just true. Sure that's a benefit of touring but not the primary reason to tour.
 
I don't think that's just true. Sure that's a benefit of touring but not the primary reason to tour.

I am not saying thats the primary reason.

I am saying the whole package is just way too appealing to let personal ego get in the way and cancel it because of some moral indignation.
 
I am not saying thats the primary reason.

I am saying the whole package is just way too appealing to let personal ego get in the way and cancel it because of some moral indignation.

Well then carry on being humiliated and treated like dirt if thats the case

Play your home 2 test series abroad for the next decade if a stand cant be made
 
Well then carry on being humiliated and treated like dirt if thats the case

Play your home 2 test series abroad for the next decade if a stand cant be made

The truth is

"Dont sit in the mud cave and look out the hole expecting goodies to come through every once in a while and accepting the dirt 99 times.

Build a ladder and climb out of the damn mud.

But that will be lost on most people of this nation.
 
The reason why this doesnt work is that touring a country like NZ is a chance of a lifetime for our players to have some time out, have a social life, enjoy a modern country and get some cash rewards.

If we skip the tour of NZ, we miss out a top infrastructure country from economy and development point of view and PCB officials miss out on the joyride.

But when NZ tours us, it tours a poor country which is heavily in debt and struggling economy.

The quality of life they miss out on makes no difference to them.

That is why tours of NZ, England and Australia can never be cancelled.

It just isnt feasible.

Haha what? Sorry but that is just an incredibly strange take. You make it seem as if our players are caged animals who can't get out of this country if it isn't for a cricket tour. That they can't simply get a visa and go to New Zealand on their own if they want to. They literally go to these countries for a month and spend most of that time training and playing cricket. Sightseeing is not the reason they tour these countries, that's just something to relax in-between playing cricket.
 
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The truth is

"Dont sit in the mud cave and look out the hole expecting goodies to come through every once in a while and accepting the dirt 99 times.

Build a ladder and climb out of the damn mud.

But that will be lost on most people of this nation.

I agree pakistan should be pro active in improving their cricket and continue showing boards that pakistan is a safe country by hosting willing boards to come

However they cant continue touring teams that wont reciprocate They need to show the world they aint happy with this status quo
 
Rameez Raja is suggesting that Pakistan should be the best team in world and only then Western bloc countries will start touring.

For that to happen Pakistan will have to not only compete in ICC Tournaments but win it. Pakistan will have to play minimum 4 to 5 Test match series in England Australia New Zealand.

It really is a disaster that PCB has not organized a 5 match Test series for Pakistan since 1992. By inviting and playing against Sri lanka, Proteas, Bangladesh and West Indies will not improve our cricket standard. You need to compete and play against the best and beat them to get international recognition. Look at Italians, how they beat England at Wembley in Euro Final in July. They got recognition not because they beat Switzerland or Austria but because they beat Belgium, Spain and England.

South Africa kept their cricket alive during aparthied era ban 1970-1991.

If Pakistan will refuse to tour Western Bloc countries then our Cricket will follow Hockey route.
Our options are very limited.

Playing on neutral venue option shall not be taken off altogether and by sweeping statements
.

No, Sh.. Sherlock!

This is exactly the kind of indicator that tell us that we have a useless, weak and feeble person sitting at the top trying to steer the ship.

The verbal blabbering of these kind of obvious yet hopeless philosophies, is a trade mark of Pakistani cricket fraternity.

If there was actually a strong, intelligent wise and resourceful leader in-place, he would not issue such statements in the public.

He would kept his mouth shut, put this vision in front of him and would intelligently and wisely work day and night to achieve this goal of actually MAKING Pak as one of the best team's in the world.

Anyone can utter this hot air from the mouth. The true and successful leaders actually keep their mouths shut, and MAKE IT HAPPEN!
 
The reason why this doesnt work is that touring a country like NZ is a chance of a lifetime for our players to have some time out, have a social life, enjoy a modern country and get some cash rewards.

If we skip the tour of NZ, we miss out a top infrastructure country from economy and development point of view and PCB officials miss out on the joyride.

But when NZ tours us, it tours a poor country which is heavily in debt and struggling economy.

The quality of life they miss out on makes no difference to them.

That is why tours of NZ, England and Australia can never be cancelled.

It just isnt feasible.

Also, your opinion. Just because going to a western country might be the chance of a lifetime for you, doesn't mean it also is for everyone else. I know alot of people who prefer the comfort of home and don't like going abroad eventhough they have been there numerous times/and have to go there on other occasions. Similarly some people prefer spending time with their families.

I'm sure players would enjoy being in New Zealand and enjoying the sights and sounds of the country (who wouldn't?) for a month or however long its is, but to say it is the chance of a lifetime is quite a hyperbole. Because that's not even the primary reason they are there.
 
Also, your opinion. Just because going to a western country might be the chance of a lifetime for you, doesn't mean it also is for everyone else. I know alot of people who prefer the comfort of home and don't like going abroad eventhough they have been there numerous times/and have to go there on other occasions. Similarly some people prefer spending time with their families.

I'm sure players would enjoy being in New Zealand and enjoying the sights and sounds of the country (who wouldn't?) for a month or however long its is, but to say it is the chance of a lifetime is quite a hyperbole. Because that's not even the primary reason they are there.

Its a good by product of being there but the primary reason the board organises these tours isnt for a jolly for the players Its cricket

And if you ask any of the players at the moment theyd rather they didnt go there if these tesms dont reciprocate and come to pakistan Guaranteed
 
Also, your opinion. Just because going to a western country might be the chance of a lifetime for you, doesn't mean it also is for everyone else. I know alot of people who prefer the comfort of home and don't like going abroad eventhough they have been there numerous times/and have to go there on other occasions. Similarly some people prefer spending time with their families.

I'm sure players would enjoy being in New Zealand and enjoying the sights and sounds of the country (who wouldn't?) for a month or however long its is, but to say it is the chance of a lifetime is quite a hyperbole. Because that's not even the primary reason they are there.

My opinion is irrelevant.

Most people go from under developed to developed to improve the quality of their lives.

Tours abroad broaden your scope and improve your understanding of the world.

They are very few hermits who would prefer to stay in Pakistan even if offered a chance to learn new experiences abroad.

Thats how humans are.

If you are arguing most humans are self contented men, you would be sitting here all night to prove your point.

Fact. PCB wont cancel tours of England and NZ and Australia because the package is too good to ignore.

Theory :lets cancel because we dont care about anything and we want to make a stand at whatever cost.
 
Emotions are high. This was always on the cards. We should have quitely got on with it in the UAE. We are now being mocked by bakhts.
 
My opinion is irrelevant.

Most people go from under developed to developed to improve the quality of their lives.

Tours abroad broaden your scope and improve your understanding of the world.

They are very few hermits who would prefer to stay in Pakistan even if offered a chance to learn new experiences abroad.

Thats how humans are.

If you are arguing most humans are self contented men, you would be sitting here all night to prove your point.

Fact. PCB wont cancel tours of England and NZ and Australia because the package is too good to ignore.

Theory :lets cancel because we dont care about anything and we want to make a stand at whatever cost.

Again, you are making the mistake of assuming everyone is a certain way which is totally wrong. Nether I, nor you can make that assumption.

And saying guys are like that because they come from underprivileged backgrounds is a deeply classist thing to say.

Also, I never advocated cancelling tours to all 3 countries, just New Zealand.
 
Its a good by product of being there but the primary reason the board organises these tours isnt for a jolly for the players Its cricket

And if you ask any of the players at the moment theyd rather they didnt go there if these tesms dont reciprocate and come to pakistan Guaranteed

Exactly. OP makes it seem that our players are caged animals who would do anything just to go to go abroad.

I don't think he realizes that most of them are rich enough to just go to these countries on their own dime if they want to.
 
All Pakistan can do is collect evidence of issues of inequality/double standard (or whatever you want to call it) and raise this in a court if ICC do nothing.

The Jarvo incident was down played, now what if Jarvo was a suicide bomber? 4 different occasions and same pitch invader. Is this not a failure in security?

The biggest thing i find hard to understand is that NZC have mentioned the British High Commission, who later rejected their claim that a report came from them. Why was the British High Commission mentioned first by NZC?

What makes the 5 eyes report so confidential that it can't be shared with a Pak security official?

Pakistan has a strong case, just make your points a challenge these racists in court.
 
We’re back to the days of playing in the UAE. Frankly, if we’d play in the UE, I’d rather us play no cricket at all.
 
No. That's a terrible idea.

Not practical.
No it is a very good idea actually. Pak, SL, Bang, Afg, WI, Ireland, Zim they can make their own block. They don’t like ICC anyway. They will have more leverage organizing tournaments and control finances.
 
Its should be make or beak for Pakistan. We should come out from ICC and make our own cricketing block.SL, WI, SA, BD, AFG, Zim...can work together.
Big 3 and their trusted ***** can play among themselves again and again.
 
"Where do we go from here?" We go nowhere! This is Pakistan cricket and its based in Pakistan. This is the bottomline that PCB should drill into Aus, Eng and NZ circles. If they cannot tour Pakistan in current circumstances then take a hiatus from visiting Pakistan anytime soon and come back after 3-4 years but we would not leave Pakistan and would only play our home cricket in our home.
 
If Eng and Aus tours next year then none of this will matter.
 
You don't understand.

All these moves to choke Pakistan cricket, are POLITICAL!

PCB can't do much about it. PCB can't "Punish" any other board who are also only pawns on this chess board of politics.

The international politics has not only become super ugly, but it's also spreading like wild fires.
And now sports has also been set ablaze by this.

We need to get down from our high horse and play a more diplomatic and long term game. We should patiently wait for the right moment to strike back politically.

For now, we should face the reality and put a pause on our efforts to bring back international cricket in Pakistan. Forget it. Don't waste time and energy, you will only get more disappointment.

We should focus more on international tours and perhaps look into South Africa as our second neutral venue besides UAE.

We need to play competitive level international cricket with top teams regardless of whether it's in Pakistan or abroad. THAT SHOULD BE THE FOCUS AND THIS IS WHERE WE SHOULD GO FROM HERE.

Unfortunately, other boards lost their respect in the eyes of the PCB when they made foolish decisions to jeopardize the sport in Pakistan.

Especially England; their excuse was laughable and poorly framed. A country that has seen a multitude of terror-related incidents, as well as major damages from COVID, and also allowed a pitch-invader to make contact with the players is in no place to make large demands. This excuse of a bio-bubble is laughable; a four day tour and they're saying that they can't cope with it. They must be pampered like children if that's the case.

I'm sorry but your point makes no sense. Why shouldn't we get our money back? You do realize that without that money, facilitating our cricket will become extremely difficult.

I'm fully in line with what Ramiz is saying; we need to get that compensation for the losses.

The time of kneeling down to those who treat us like filth is over; we should only go as far as our own interests lie.

I believe that Ramiz has openly stated in a PCB interview that they have coordinated a tri-series with Bangladesh and Sri Lanka in case Australia doesn't tour. That is a great initiative.

Next would be to get a series with Afghanistan and then look to extend our hand of support to South Africa as well.

No point going for a neutral venue when you've got three teams willing to send their players to play a series with you.

If boards like ECB and NZC are not satisfied, we should not be bothered. Once the money starts to float around, they will not resist their temptations.

Now is the time to take action, when you've put NZC on the ropes, you need to make sure you deal them a hit they'll remember for a long time.
 
Its should be make or beak for Pakistan. We should come out from ICC and make our own cricketing block.SL, WI, SA, BD, AFG, Zim...can work together.
Big 3 and their trusted ***** can play among themselves again and again.

But are these boards wants to lose big money playimg with big 3?
Also no other board have suffered like Pakistan.
So how will they support your idea?
All other boards are getting tours and visits from big 3 and unfortunately current Pakistan economic condition not helping
 
We need to remain optimistic first and foremost.

Only 10 years after the terrible events of 2009 the PCB were able to host a full season of cricket against the same team which was victim to those attacks.

We still have the trust of most other boards and we need to use this trust to show that Pakistan is safe to host cricket.

Also the response of other international players shows that most cricketers feel safe while touring Pakistan.

I believe we need to leverage the current trust we have built with these teams and players to carry on and continue playing cricket within Pakistan. If teams like Australia, New Zealand or England don't want to tour us then that's their choice. Instead we should invite our friends from West indies, Sri Lanka and South Africa and continue to improve the trust their boards and players have with us.

And hey if they still won't tour us than really it's their problem not ours.
 
I just don’t think it is as big a moment as we think it is. It certainly is an emotional moment but not a transformational one. I may be in the minority on this.

It is a setback but Pakistan has now years of international cricket and PSLs under its belt. It also has goodwill of most boards. That counts for a lot.

They just need to chill, take stock, invite friendly teams who are OK to come. Also continue to show indignation and make noises about the unfairness of it all. I think that’s a good strategy to show some spine.

Also continue to put their house in order.

My prediction: unless anything untoward happens and unless internal security situation deteriorates, atleast England will be back by this time next year.

But what of away tours? Pakistan provide considerable revenue for England and have traveled here on an almost 2 yearly basis over the last decade. Should the PCB refuse all future tours unless England provide a full tour (tests, t20s and ODIs) in Pakistan? The PCB has to show some spine at the very least.
 
If Pakistan cricket is going to go down anyway, might as well go down with a bang. On the next tour to England, turn up and then just before the toss say "we are scared of Jarvo copycats turning up and injuring our players, there is a perceived threat, we are going home". Slap them on our way to the bottom!
 
Logical decision will be to boycott the World Cup in India. Pakistan can actually win in UAE. :inti

Stop dreaming!

Last two times India played Pakistan in UAE (Asia Cup):

Pakistan 162/10 (43.2 overs) - India 164/2 (29 overs)

Pakistan 237/7 (50 overs) - India 239/1 (39.1 overs)

Didn't matter that India's best batsman skipped the tournament.
 
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Stop dreaming!

Last two times India played Pakistan in UAE (Asia Cup):

Pakistan 162/10 (43.2 overs) - India 164/2 (29 overs)

Pakistan 237/7 (50 overs) - India 239/1 (39.1 overs)

Didn't matter that India's best batsman skipped the tournament.
India is light years ahead in terms of cricket.

No chance to close the gap anytime soon.
 
David White knows that his cricket board was looking foolish in the eyes of many. Their expectation was that PCB would roll over and understand, but our stubbornness helped us prove a point, and I don't think we should stop here.

Nothing personal against New Zealand fans, but PCB should take strict, decisive action against NCZ straight away. If David White is so keen on using compensation as a means to divert criticism and attention from the board, by all means, their board should rake out the cash.

Realistically, I have a feeling they will be looking to just cover the costs of the stay / security at most to try and break even to zero under those heads. I doubt they will look to cover anything such as lost revenue, broadcasting deal breakclauses (if applicable) etc. However, the moment they actually bring forward the notion of negotiating compensation PCB should attempt to negotiate for the full or at least a significant fraction of the actual amount.

I know how feeble these politics are: these statements are made to appease the general public. Had our fans and players not rightfully criticized the decision, New Zealand Cricket Board would have continued on their merry journey. They are under the pump, and it's our turn to deal them a few hits they'll remember for a while.
[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] has been rightly pointing this out: you cannot be lenient with something as serious as this is. You need to make sure that these boards understand that they are not big enough to try and boss us around on our own soil.

I know but the reason for pointing out this statement was that his posturing and response has not quite been the ice cold, dogged and stoic one most people were anticipating citing PAK's lack of credibility and clout. There are very few countries that play cricket and none of the SENA boards will want to unnecessarily sour relations to the extent they feel they can help it. At the end of the day they will not want to become dependent on just the other two / three members of the cricketing fraternity (no one would). NZC being the smallest of the four would certainly want to avoid being overdependent.

Money rules the world. Money is what all these boards want. As soon as you find a way to strip some cash away from them, their priorities change and they will go to many ends to appease you. I have seen the greed for cash through my own eyes, and I can surely say that we have cornered New Zealand to a very good extent.

I agree and this was the purpose of citing the comment about monetising the fan base and diversifying revenue streams.

Think about the situation: their government told them not to share information, meaning that they cannot share this information even though they should. Their government got involved, and they made a unilateral decision. They are not willing to disclose this evidence, so if they aren't, they have already made the mistake of talking about compensation. Not only does the PCB have the claim that this decision was baseless (because we cannot take into account how factual the evidence was since no other party has been allowed to review it), we have a statement from their CEO talking about recommendation. For a board as small as NZC, that sum of cash is extremely important and could set back their financial plans for a while. Teams right now have busy international seasons; they are unlikely to get a tour from another Big 3 nation for a while, so they are clearly lacking the options. Losing money for them would be the equivalent of cutting an arm off; they'd probably much rather do something else. Their desperation to get Pakistan to host at a neutral venue backfired when Wasim Khan made it clear we were not going to compromise on home cricket. They have virtually no options apart from leaking the information (which they can't do) or pay this extraordinary sum of money (in comparison to their board's revenue, it is a gigantic sum of money).

If we sit and do nothing, NZC will get away with this. If you make an example out of a team, you will make sure that other teams take note and understand what happens if you try and make unilateral decisions in tours.

It is the best way forward. I think this should provide a lot of clarity for a few others who don't understand why I am pushing for compensation.

I agree with the overall idea. Given their CEO has brought up compensation already it would be foolish not to try and drag this as deep as we rightfully can - no point exploiting the situation though.

I still feel that NZ govt. is the entity which is truly answerable but unfortunately our razor sharp politicians have so far not managed to give enough airtime to this point: potential gross negligence by not sharing the nature of the threat and risking countless unsuspecting lives, including those of NZC players, through collateral damage due to their not sharing details of the nature of the threat. Hopefully this point gets picked up because if what has been shared in media so far is correct then the NZ govt. will have far more pressing points to address.
 
I dont understand what people expecting here from pcb. There will be emotions here and there and eventually by the time wt20 comes we will accept what has happened and move on. Like always we will continue negotiations with te, give their security advisors vip trips to convince them we are safe and keep on waiting for their decision.

You guys are miffed that nz and england pulled out. I made a thread where i mentioned the hypocrisy of afg pulling out and people laughed that i actually wanted afg to tour us.

Guess what, eventually we wont be having Afg or bangladesh touring us either.

You know what a sane or cunning board administration would had done here?

They would had backed out of the icc ftp, would had signed a deal with some big tv broadcaster and made the psl a 6 to 8 month long tournament.


Icc would had come begging to stop us and if we are actually making profits this way only than we would have held a trump card.

This is the best option for Pakistan. We should give up on Test Cricket and focus on PSL, and T-20I mainly. And still play the occasional ODI.
 
The reason why this doesnt work is that touring a country like NZ is a chance of a lifetime for our players to have some time out, have a social life, enjoy a modern country and get some cash rewards.

If we skip the tour of NZ, we miss out a top infrastructure country from economy and development point of view and PCB officials miss out on the joyride.

But when NZ tours us, it tours a poor country which is heavily in debt and struggling economy.

The quality of life they miss out on makes no difference to them.

That is why tours of NZ, England and Australia can never be cancelled.

It just isnt feasible.

They can go to Dubai on their own time and with their own money.
 
Realistically, I have a feeling they will be looking to just cover the costs of the stay / security at most to try and break even to zero under those heads. I doubt they will look to cover anything such as lost revenue, broadcasting deal breakclauses (if applicable) etc. However, the moment they actually bring forward the notion of negotiating compensation PCB should attempt to negotiate for the full or at least a significant fraction of the actual amount.



I know but the reason for pointing out this statement was that his posturing and response has not quite been the ice cold, dogged and stoic one most people were anticipating citing PAK's lack of credibility and clout. There are very few countries that play cricket and none of the SENA boards will want to unnecessarily sour relations to the extent they feel they can help it. At the end of the day they will not want to become dependent on just the other two / three members of the cricketing fraternity (no one would). NZC being the smallest of the four would certainly want to avoid being overdependent.



I agree and this was the purpose of citing the comment about monetising the fan base and diversifying revenue streams.



I agree with the overall idea. Given their CEO has brought up compensation already it would be foolish not to try and drag this as deep as we rightfully can - no point exploiting the situation though.

I still feel that NZ govt. is the entity which is truly answerable but unfortunately our razor sharp politicians have so far not managed to give enough airtime to this point: potential gross negligence by not sharing the nature of the threat and risking countless unsuspecting lives, including those of NZC players, through collateral damage due to their not sharing details of the nature of the threat. Hopefully this point gets picked up because if what has been shared in media so far is correct then the NZ govt. will have far more pressing points to address.

I agree with your points here.

Let's hope PCB can salvage a good deal of compensation from NZC and ECB.

Apparently Ramiz has a few big sponsors ready to invest in Pakistan Cricket, so let's see what happens.
 
This is the best option for Pakistan. We should give up on Test Cricket and focus on PSL, and T-20I mainly. And still play the occasional ODI.

And become a glorified West Indies tribute band, with all the respect which that entails. Honestly some of the hysteria is laying bare why Pakistan has never been able to implement joined-up thinking in the pursuit of sustainable success.
 
Stop playing for a while. The ICC will miss Pak as well when our fans stop paying. Also, there are many foreigners coming to Pak to play just that we never hear off it due to the obsession with Cricket.
 
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