Which cricket ground has historically always been a batting paradise?

[msb314]

1) Wanderers, Johannesburg
2) Bridgetown, Barbados
3) Headingley, Leeds
4) National Stadium, Karachi
5) Gaddafi Stadium, Lahore
6) Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
7) Feroz Shah Kotla, Delhi,
8) Eden Garden, Kolkota
9) Bengaluru
10) Rajkot
11) Indore
12) Mirpur, Dhaka
13) SSC, Colombo
14) P Sara Oval, Colombo
15) Sharjah Cricket Stadium
16) Adelaide
17) Hobart
18) Queenstown
19) Seddon Park
20) Wellington

Would anyone have any stats to back up which grounds are known for batting friendly conditions (e.g. runs per game)

Thoughts?

 

[Statsman]

Is this a list of flattest tracks? If yes then Feroz Shah Kotla shouldn't be in it. That ground has a couple of 300+ scores in 50+ innings. One came against Netherlands and the other is a 303.

 

[Statsman]

Also Kotla has had one drawn test since 1986.

 

[Statsman]

Wankhade has a solitary 300+ score in ODIs, that too against Canada. Also 2 test draws since 1988 and 10 results. I guess this is just a random list of 20 cricket grounds.

 

[msb314]

Wankhade has a solitary 300+ score in ODIs, that too against Canada. Also 2 test draws since 1988 and 10 results. I guess this is just a random list of 20 cricket grounds.

Which ground is then the best for batting?

I include several indian grounds to the general conception of friendly batting conditions there.

 

[leatherface58]

Barbados, a batting paradise? Nope.

I would say St.Kitts is pretty flat.

 

[Sakss]

NS Karachi

 

[msb314]

Barbados, a batting paradise? Nope.

I would say St.Kitts is pretty flat.

Didn't sobers score 365 (the highest test score at that time) in barbados when hanif mohammad also scored 337?

WI compiled 790/3 which remains the highest score ever against pakistan LOL

 

[Thivagar]

Rajkot period.

 

[Fire Bird]

Rajkot period.

Haha more than the SSC? You are kidding me. I recall a certain match where scored 370 and scored 280 against Steyn and co. That makes Rajkot looks like a sporting track.

 

[Statsman]

From the top of my mind.

Sardar Patel Stadium, Motera.

Shere Bangla.

 

[msb314]

Haha more than the SSC? You are kidding me. I recall a certain match where scored 370 and scored 280 against Steyn and co. That makes Rajkot looks like a sporting track.

We are comparing apples and oranges here.

If sanga can score 280 and 370 in the SSC, Sanga and Mahela will probably find it easier to bat on the rajkot pitch which is even smaller than the one at the SSC.

The 413 game at Rajkot was probably the deadest, flattest pitch I can think of and would make the Wanderers seem like a green top.

 

[Statsman]

Motera in tests - more draws than results in last decade or so. Lots of 300+ ODI scores as well.

 

[Thivagar]

Haha more than the SSC? You are kidding me. I recall a certain match where scored 370 and scored 280 against Steyn and co. That makes Rajkot looks like a sporting track.

Ya the same match where SA got all out of 169 in the first inning and SL ended up winning with an inning and 153 runs. Firebird i watch more SL matches than you, I know more about SL pitches, I also watch lot of Indian matches, maybe not more than you do but enough to know the pitch differences. I think its about time you cool down with the FTB things because you assume you know it.

 

[soso_killer]

Are we talking tests or odi's though? coz you're in for a surprise if you think the deck in Jo'burg is flat in tests.

 

[Azlan Khan]

Sharjah Cricket Stadium.

 

[Buffet]

Due to changing nature of tracks , it's more meaningful to look at the stats of the last 10 years.

In my opinion, the flattest tracks in the last 10 years for venues with at least 3 tests is Gaddafi Stadium, Lahore. In 5 tests, it has produced 48.64 runs per over with an economy rate of 3.60. Any ground where you can score at the rate of 3.6 and lose wickets every 50 runs has to be a big contender for flattest track in the last 10 years.

When you sort by runs per over and average per wicket, this ground comes up in the top 2 in both criterion. See below,

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground


-------------------

If we are looking at entire history then here is with 3+ tests, Economy of 3+ & avg of 35+.

If you sort it by average then you have

1. St Kitts - West Indies - 45.16
2. Antigua - West Indies - 43.98
3. Abu Dhabi - U.A.E. - 39.67

If you sort it by Economy then you have,

1. Chittagong - Bangladesh - 3.38
2. Multan Cricket Stadium - Pakistan - 3.38
3. Mirpur, Dhaka - Bangladesh - 3.37

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

One issue with having BD here in this list. It may not be necessarily that flat but due to their inept bowling it may look more flat in stats. Over all, I think WI has produced more flat tracks than anyone else.

-----------------------

All these stats are not necessarily pointing towards the exact relative flatness of tracks. Bowling is also a contributing factor here in producing these stats but it gives a rough idea.

 

[Buffet]

Are we talking tests or odi's though? coz you're in for a surprise if you think the deck in Jo'burg is flat in tests.

Jo'burg in Test - avg 30.50

It's not flat by any stretch. Just to give some context - many post drivel that 80s was the most difficult period for batsmen. Now if that's the case then only one bowling unit in 80s had a less average, which includes all grounds( flat and non-flat). If Jo'burg is flat then we can safely say that batsmen in 80s were piling runs on even more flatter wickets and found it very easy to score.

 

[msb314]

Are we talking tests or odi's though? coz you're in for a surprise if you think the deck in Jo'burg is flat in tests.

Lets assume ODI's for now as it is probably easier to tell whether it a flat batting track or not (weather conditions, pitch detorioration do not affect ODI's as much as they do for tests).

Regarding Wanderers in tests, didn't SAF almost pull off a 450 chase in the 4th innings chase against india last year? Atleast in recent times, Wanderers has been pretty flat in tests and odi's.

 

[msb314]

Sharjah Cricket Stadium.

Sharjah is probably the only track where pakistan has been able to capitalize in recent times. We have failed in ODI's everywhere else LOL

 

[Buffet]

Atleast in recent times, Wanderers has been pretty flat in tests and odi's.

In the last 5 years - Wanderers , with 31.95 average, is not even in the top half of the list. Too many grounds have 35-45 average. See the entire list,

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

I am pretty sure that even 31.xx average will drop. It went to that point due to SA and India averaging 35+ on this ground in the last 5 years. Let's see how well all teams do in future on this ground. It may be relatively flat for SA but not really flat when compared to other grounds around the world.

 

[Sidcricfan]

I would say remove Delhi and Mumbai and have Motera instead. Also I don't think Headingley is by any stretch a batting paradise.

 

[Fire Bird]

Ya the same match where SA got all out of 169 in the first inning and SL ended up winning with an inning and 153 runs. Firebird i watch more SL matches than you, I know more about SL pitches, I also watch lot of Indian matches, maybe not more than you do but enough to know the pitch differences. I think its about time you cool down with the FTB things because you assume you know it.

Read the post below Mr.Know-it-all. SSC is number 3 in the list of averages per wicket. The two grounds above it are relatively new and host BAN and WI. Enough said. Ahmedabad comes in number 6. So much for claiming you watching most of SL games than you. I have been watching cricket since the end of 1991. Ah the arrogance of half-baked knowledge. I think most posters here would acknowledge SSC as the flattest decks in the world. THat is anyone who is not a rabid SL fan.

In the last 5 years - Wanderers , with 31.95 average, is not even in the top half of the list. Too many grounds have 35-45 average. See the entire list,

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...n;template=results;type=aggregate;view=ground

I am pretty sure that even 31.xx average will drop. It went to that point due to SA and India averaging 35+ on this ground in the last 5 years. Let's see how well all teams do in future on this ground. It may be relatively flat for SA but not really flat when compared to other grounds around the world.

 

[Boycottisno2]

All the grounds in Pakistan are batting paradises --- no wonder Pakistan batsmen cannot bat away from home conditions---

if you make dead wickets your batsmen dont know what to do on fast and seaming wickets that are going to be presented in the World Cup in Australia and New Zealand....

Serves then right ....... Pakistan will loose all the matches in the World Cup even against minnows.... remember Ireland

 

[Thivagar]

Read the post below Mr.Know-it-all. SSC is number 3 in the list of averages per wicket. The two grounds above it are relatively new and host BAN and WI. Enough said. Ahmedabad comes in number 6. So much for claiming you watching most of SL games than you. I have been watching cricket since the end of 1991. Ah the arrogance of half-baked knowledge. I think most posters here would acknowledge SSC as the flattest decks in the world. THat is anyone who is not a rabid SL fan.

Why didn't you say anything about SA getting all out for 169 in that same match to my reply ? You seem to have completely ignored that part. Why are you pulling up the stats for last 5 years ago, when the thread is about "historically" the flattest grounds. Why don't you pull your stats from lets say....... since you started watching (1991)and see how many Indian grounds tops that list ? hmmmm looks like 5 Indian grounds seem to come before any SL grounds shows up. And uncle, remember that this is before the bigger bats and etc.

 

[RehanG]

first place which came to my mind was Karachi

 

[Convict]

Hobart is not a batting paradise

 

[biggestdravidfan]

SSC is the grand father of all flat tracks where ATG FTB's like Mahela score triples.

 

[Buffet]

SSC is the grand father of all flat tracks where ATG FTB's like Mahela score triples.

I think SSC was more on flatter side most of the times but it wasn't super flat all the time. After Murali retired, SSC became more flat.

On this subject, Murali was phenomenal on SSC. Even on 1st inning. He averaged close to 20 in all innings in SSC and still some call his performance getting boost by bowling on dust bowls. Even when Murali played, SSC was 35 runs per wicket.

 

[msb314]

I would say remove Delhi and Mumbai and have Motera instead. Also I don't think Headingley is by any stretch a batting paradise.

Don Bradman, Jon Edrich and possibly several others scored triple hundreeds at headingley.

There have also been several high run chases e.g. AUS vs SAF 99 WC ("dropped the WC") and when england chased 315 against australia in 2001.

Pakistan also scored heavily at Headingley when we toured england in 2006.

i would say that out of all the english grounds, headingley has best batting conditions (followed by edgabaston and trent bridge)

 

[msb314]

Hobart is not a batting paradise

In ODI's it is.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/commonwealth-bank-series-2012/engine/current/match/518966.html

 

[desi_launda]

Feroze Shah Kotla is hardly a batting paradise.You don't see too many tall test scores there,even though it is a small ground.Probably the toughest pitch in India(Kumble enjoyed bowling here)

 

[Fire Bird]

Why didn't you say anything about SA getting all out for 169 in that same match to my reply ? You seem to have completely ignored that part. Why are you pulling up the stats for last 5 years ago, when the thread is about "historically" the flattest grounds. Why don't you pull your stats from lets say....... since you started watching (1991)and see how many Indian grounds tops that list ? hmmmm looks like 5 Indian grounds seem to come before any SL grounds shows up. And uncle, remember that this is before the bigger bats and etc.

Why don't you do the stats check yourself then. Listen sonny the general consensus here is the SSC is the flattest track in the world. The Indian tracks start out flat but start crumbling by day4 and 5 making it hard to score in the second innings whereas the SSC stays flat throughout the 5 days. The only reason for SA crumbling for 169 is due to and SA ineptness in playing spin. Even they scored 400+ in the second innings IIRC.

 

[iafzal]

No Iqbal stadium in Faisalabad?
In the 80s used to batting paradise and Lillee's graveyard.

 

[Abhilash93]

In ODI's it is.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/commonwealth-bank-series-2012/engine/current/match/518966.html

Even in Tests.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291339.html

Though historically it has been good for the bowlers, now it is just a batting paradise.

 

[Nothing matters]

Sharjah

 

[IndianWillow]

Instead of ground averages, the home team average on the grounds are better indicators of flatness. Visiting teams often struggle even on flat decks and so the stats by themselves aren't conclusive.

 

[Thivagar]

Why don't you do the stats check yourself then. Listen sonny the general consensus here is the SSC is the flattest track in the world. The Indian tracks start out flat but start crumbling by day4 and 5 making it hard to score in the second innings whereas the SSC stays flat throughout the 5 days. The only reason for SA crumbling for 169 is due to and SA ineptness in playing spin. Even they scored 400+ in the second innings IIRC.

Here are the stats for you little birdy from 1991 till now. Look how many Indian ground tops the list before any SL grounds shows up. 6 Indian grounds before any SL ground showed up and 7 grounds before SSC. Look at you now, coming up with "general consensus here" diarrhea all of a sudden. People say crap and everyone gets on bandwagon. You pulled up stats and I used the same stats from the same period since you started watching.Now you are back pedaling. People here aren't experts, most of them have never played club cricket, half of them have never touched a hardball, what makes you assume that consensus from people here is accurate ?

How do you know that SSC is flat from day 1 ? Do you assume its flat from day 1 because it suits your assumption ? For the matter of fact, in that same match, on day 1 SL pace bowlers picked up 6 wickets without Vaas and 12 wickets fell on that day. 400 is pretty common on among SC pitches after day 4.

So basically, I debunked your assumptions uncle birdy. Enjoy your victory vs PP's Aeronautical Engineer who has been to 19 countries.

 

[Fire Bird]

Here are the stats for you little birdy from 1991 till now. Look how many Indian ground tops the list before any SL grounds shows up. 6 Indian grounds before any SL ground showed up and 7 grounds before SSC. Look at you now, coming up with "general consensus here" diarrhea all of a sudden. People say crap and everyone gets on bandwagon. You pulled up stats and I used the same stats from the same period since you started watching.Now you are back pedaling. People here aren't experts, most of them have never played club cricket, half of them have never touched a hardball, what makes you assume that consensus from people here is accurate ?

How do you know that SSC is flat from day 1 ? Do you assume its flat from day 1 because it suits your assumption ? For the matter of fact, in that same match, on day 1 SL pace bowlers picked up 6 wickets without Vaas and 12 wickets fell on that day. 400 is pretty common on among SC pitches after day 4.

So basically, I debunked your assumptions uncle birdy. Enjoy your victory vs PP's Aeronautical Engineer who has been to 19 countries.

Where? Did you just pull the info you have typed out of your rear end. Your accusing me of verbal diarrhea is hypocritical. Go on pretend that SSC is some sporting pitch. Since you didnt want PP's opinion, maybe you would like this
http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-india-2010/content/story/470076.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/571158.html

 

[soso_killer]

Lets assume ODI's for now as it is probably easier to tell whether it a flat batting track or not (weather conditions, pitch detorioration do not affect ODI's as much as they do for tests).

Regarding Wanderers in tests, didn't SAF almost pull off a 450 chase in the 4th innings chase against india last year? At least in recent times, Wanderers has been pretty flat in tests and odi's.

The Wanderers is one of the most fascinating venue in SA if not the world.
Its not as flat as people make it out to be.

Like I stated when the is moisture on the surface the pitch becomes something else.
When you live a bit of grass the pitch maintains its pace through out with a bit of swing.
There is not a lot of swing (or exaggerated swing) due to altitude, but enough to cause some damage.
And yes conditions also play a factor in SA.

It is very hot during the day in Jo'burg even in the early parts of the morning, by midday all the moisture on the pitch gets sucked out.
This explain why they prefer a day game to a day,night (where its a lot cooler).

It is during the day games that we get these 400+ scores. Even then teams must negate the movement 1st before launching an assault. IIRC in the 438 game Australia were going at 5.5 initial (1st 10 overs) and then built from there. As the pitch gets dry because of the heat it gets a bit easy to bat on as compared to the afternoon.

Here are the numbers (since 2000):
During a day game on average you get 34 runs per wicket, whereas a day nighter is the most difficult in the country (well, sort of).
A day night game has an average of 26.72 per wicket. Not a "flat wicket" now is it?

SA plays major opponents in 5 cities Jo'burg, Cape Town, Durban, Pretoria and my home town Port Elizabeth be it test or ODI's. And ill provide data as such.

Day Game (runs per wicket)
Jo'burg 34.78 (16 matches)
PRetoria 29.35 (20 matches)
Cape Town 26.78 (6 matches)
Durban 28.61 (5 matches)
PE 28.61 (13 matches)

Day/Night
Jo'burg 26.72 (15 matches), overall: 30.79 runs per wicket.
PRetoria 28.92 (14 matches), overall: 29.17 runs per wicket
Cape Town 25.83 (19 matches), overall: 26.05 runs per wicket
Durban 25.65 (23 matches), overall: 26.21 runs per wicket
PE 27.28 (11 matches), overall: 27.69 runs per wicket

Jo'burg has the highest runs per wicket in SA, and not surprisingly the highest strike rate by batsmen. Overall they score 81 runs per hundred balls, whilst other venues are around 77 runs per hundred balls.

In India however they take the word "grave yard" to the next level
In 11 in Jaipur you have 34.86.
In 13 in Bangalore you have 35.61
In Kolkata you have 32.30 in 12 matches.
Jamtha, Nagpur 37.36 in 7.
Gujarat, Ahmedabad 34.61 in 15.

This is all since 2000, and the scoring rate is 90+ runs per hundred balls.

 

[MenInG]

Eden Park - size of boundaries is ridiculous?!

 

[moghul]

If you ever asked the legendary Deniss Lille, he would say Iqbal stadium Faisalabad. Even a batman like Tasleem Arif once score a double ton, while facing Lille there.

 

[Varun]

If you ever asked the legendary Deniss Lille, he would say Iqbal stadium Faisalabad. Even a batman like Tasleem Arif once score a double ton, while facing Lille there.

Lillee couldn't bowl for nuts outside helpful conditions, so his opinion doesn't count for much.

He even sat out of tough tours to protect his average.