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Which cricketer was the biggest underachiever of all time?

msb314

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Who was the biggest underachiever in cricket?

Some of the names that come to mind who were great/showed potential but could not live up to their talent:

Pakistan
- Imran Nazir
- Yasir Hameed
- Inzy
- MoYo
- Afridi
- Razzaq
- Shoaib Malik
- Kamran Akmal
- Umer Akmal
- Bazid Khan
- Ata ur Rehman
- Shadab Kabir
- Wajahutullah Wasti
- Mohammad Zahid
- Mohammad Sami

New Zealand

- Brendan McCullum
- Lou Vincent
- Shane Bond
- Nathan Astle
- Roger Twose

Australia
- Michael Bevan (in tests)
- Damien Martyn
- Andrew Symonds
- Darren Lehman
- Simon Katich
- Jason Gillespie
- Paul Reiffel
- Mark Kasprowicz
- Shane Lee

India
- Vinod Kambli
- Saddogopan Ramesh
- Irfan Pathan
- Yousuf Pathan
- Robin Singh
- Laxmipathy Balaji
- Hemang Badani

South Africa
- Daryl Cullinan
- Herschelle Gibbs (despite his decent ODI stats - he still underachieved IMO)
- Neil McKenzie
- Jacques Rudoplh
- Albie Morkel

England
- Graeme Hick
- Graeme Thorpe
- Mark Ramprakash
- Kevin Peiterson
- Flintoff
- Holliake brothers
- Nick Knight
- Darren Gough
- Simon Jones

West Indies
- Chris Gayle
- Ramnaresh Sarwan
- Ricardo Powell
- Darren Ganga
- Dwayne Bravo
- Frank Rose
- Lawrence Rowe

Sri Lanka

- Thilan Samaraweera
- Russell Arnold
- Jayasuriya (tests)
- Atapattu
- Upul Tharanga
- Michael Vandort
 
Sachin Tendulkar.

Should have averaged 60+ with the talent he possessed.
 
For Pakistan.... Inzamam Ul Haq. A player of his ability should have had at least 30 ODI centuries but he only managed 10. :facepalm:
 
Basit Ali: in his debut test series against the then might west indies in 1992-93, he was holding the test batting together while his illustrious colleagues for falling like nine pins. He had moulded his batting as an ode to his idol - Javed Miandad. I thought he was going to be the next great middle order batsman for Pakistan. Maybe I did not understand cricket well enough, or may be he became to embroiled in the issues that were surrounding the team at the time.

Ultimately, a real waste.
 
Apart from Irfan Pathan none of the indian guys mentioned in OP underachieved. I would rather add Yuvraj Singh's name there. He underachieved in test cricket. He could have become the Kevin Pietersen of india but he couldn't.
 
Well there are a lot from Pakistan. Most of them were just too casual and took their spots for granted. Others lacked the mental capacity to bat for long periods.

From the bowlers, over-coached Sami and the unfortunate career ending injury for Zahid. There were probably many in domestic who didn't get a chance because of Wasim and Waqar.
 
Apart from Irfan Pathan none of the indian guys mentioned in OP underachieved. I would rather add Yuvraj Singh's name there. He underachieved in test cricket. He could have become the Kevin Pietersen of india but he couldn't.

Sorry but I would disagree - Vinod Kambli was known to have poor attitude but he grossly underachieved given his talent. I would agree with Yuvraj Singh but his test form always seemed to be patchy aside from 2006. From what I recall of Sadagopan Ramesh, he was very talented and in the mold of a classical opener but he could not keep up with Sehwag's brilliance in the mid-2000's
 
Basit Ali: in his debut test series against the then might west indies in 1992-93, he was holding the test batting together while his illustrious colleagues for falling like nine pins. He had moulded his batting as an ode to his idol - Javed Miandad. I thought he was going to be the next great middle order batsman for Pakistan. Maybe I did not understand cricket well enough, or may be he became to embroiled in the issues that were surrounding the team at the time.

Ultimately, a real waste.

Never knew about Basit Ali's brilliance against the WI. Was definitely before my time though...
 
Never knew about Basit Ali's brilliance against the WI. Was definitely before my time though...

Oh he was quite good. And it was followed by a tri-series in Sharjah where he blasted 130 off 67 deliveries against an attack featurig Ambrose, Walsh etc.
 
Dion Nash, Shane Bond, Asim Kamal, Shahid Nazir, laxmi ratan Shukla, Franklyn Rose, Mervyn Dillon, Sreesanth (yes, I think he had tremendous skill), Manjerekar, Ramnaresh Sarwan, Ramprakash, Hick, Alan Mulally, Harmison, Panesar, Ashwell Prince, jacques Rudolph, Daryll Cullinan, Brett Schultz
 
Lehmann, Martyn and Katich has substantial careers averaging nearly 50 in Test cricket and both Lehmann and Martyn were part of World Cup winning sides. Jason Gillespie took 250 Test wickets at 26. Symonds had a pretty good career all things considered. Bevan is one of the greatest ODI batsmen of all time.
Reiffel and Kasper were honest toilers, nothing more and Shane Lee was a hack.
 
Sachin was an underachiever. He wasn't the same played in the 2000s. Should have easily averaged over 60.
 
Lehmann, Martyn and Katich has substantial careers averaging nearly 50 in Test cricket and both Lehmann and Martyn were part of World Cup winning sides. Jason Gillespie took 250 Test wickets at 26. Symonds had a pretty good career all things considered. Bevan is one of the greatest ODI batsmen of all time.
Reiffel and Kasper were honest toilers, nothing more and Shane Lee was a hack.

Lehmann was a superstar apparently in the australian domestic circuit yet he was capable of more than what his test average of 45 indicates - same goes for Damien Martyn. Symonds was insanely good on his day(better than everyone except for ponting and gilchrist) yet he underachieved too.

Bevan was amazing in ODI's but strangely struggled in tests...

Shane Lee might have been a hack but he was rated as one of the best all-rounders at the turn of the century.
 
Sachin Tendulkar.

Should have averaged 60+ with the talent he possessed.
I actually agree.

It's obscene that a boy of his talent became a man who will spend the rest of his life looking up at Kallis and Sangakkara.

Like Afridi, an example of the corrosive power of too much fame, too little intelligence and bad advice.
 
I actually agree.

It's obscene that a boy of his talent became a man who will spend the rest of his life looking up at Kallis and Sangakkara.

Like Afridi, an example of the corrosive power of too much fame, too little intelligence and bad advice.

Please tell me you are joking.
 
Sanjay Manjrekar and Vinod Kambli. Both had the talent to become ATG's . Sigh , i wonder what went wrong.
 
This thread lost all credibility as soon as Tendulkar, Inzamam, Graham Thorpe and MoYo were included on these lists. These were some of the best batsmen to play the game ever and they still underachieved? Some of y'all need a dictionary.
 
The biggest underachiever in world cricket goes to none other than Shahid Afridi.

Take a bow
 
Donald - Underachieved due to getting a chance to play his first international game when he was already 26 years old. Missed his prime.

Martin Crowe - He looked really top class and you could actually enjoy watching him bat. Injury and poor early starts went against him. He should have gone down as one of the best in history but finished few notches below.

Carl Hooper - He should have finished with a far better record as all rounder.

Akhtar - He could actually swing the ball at express pace. 10+ years in international cricket but didn't get to play many tests due to injury and finished with even less than 200 wickets.

Brett Schultz - Talented left arm pacer Ended with just 37 test wickets due to injury.

Bond - No need to say much here.

Ganga - Dude had a much better game than what he achieved.

Chris Cairns -- A very talented all rounder who looked class in both departments but didn't go big.
 
Past Players
Mark Waugh (was a better and more stylish batsman than his twin brother Steve)
Simon Jones (I rated him higher than any of the other english bowlers during the famous ashes)
Mohammad Ashraful (as soon as he learned the art of occupying the crease, he was also caught fixing)
Waqar Younis (He was the best Pakistan produced, politics and injury turned him into a shadow of his former self on his return, and even the shadow was destructive)
Shoib Akhtar (brilliant bowler, shame that he lacked fitness later in his career)

Present Players
Mohammad Amir (4.5 years of hiatus is huge for a fast bowler... kudos for coming back tho)
Jesse Ryder (destructive attitude on and off the field)
 
I think, from IND the biggest under achiever is Kapil Dev. He never played for his stats & hardly bothered for milestones. Kapil could have improved his Test batting average while one of crickets biggest loss is that Kapil (& his Captains) wasted him at 7, whereas he should have always played at 5. Apart from Kapil, I think I Pathan & UV had lot to offer in modern days, while an average of 35 & just 6 Test centuries don't reflect what an outstanding batsman Tiger Pataudi was (neither his Captaincy from the W/L ratio). UV could have ended with a Test career of 100+ matches; 6,000+ runs at 40+ (& SR of 75) & 200+ Test wickets at around 40. Unpopular statement, but those 2 Bombay guys were the over achievers - for that every second in Cricket field, they batted for own career.

For PAK (& probably in Cricket), the biggest underachiever was Imran Khan. Politics, WSC, injury, in-fights, groupings dented his career probably more than anyone - from 1983 to 1986 Imran lost 3 golden years & about 25 Tests when he was averaging <18 with ball & close to 50 with bat. Before that, lost 2-3 years to WSC in his mid 20s, & another 2-3 years at Oxford in his early 20s (though those 2-3 years made the Man Imran; playing for PIA or Habib Bank would have made him another Manzoor Elahi or Navid Anjum at best), yet he is arguably the greatest ever all-rounder. The other player from PAK I really felt missed out is Afridi - what a loser. He had a Test 100, a Test 50, a Test 5fer in his first 3 Tests & was good enough to finish with 400 Test wickets & 8,000 Test runs, both at around 35 (& a batting SR of 80+), in 20 years & 150+ Test career. He was once good enough to make the team as leg-spinner & had the capability to smash West Indian pacers for a 3 hours Century at Bridgetown - what a looser, I must say again. Apart from these 2, I think Wasim never focused on his batting & Inzi on his fitness - both of them should have significant better batting career. For LO version only, Malik is my biggest disappointment. He is easily the best middle-order of his generation behind MoYo & a quite effective spinner. There was a long thread on who is better ODI all-rounder MoHa or Malik & I still 'll go for Malik; that too after MoHa been the leading ODI all-rounder for best part of this decade - Malik was that good.

For SRL, I heard that Roy Dias was an outstanding stroke maker, but hardly achieved anything, but haven't seen him. Oblate, Malinga should have a much better Test career, but he focused too much on shorter version & struggled for fitness.

Current group of BD players are performing, but their predecessors didn't posses the mental toughness to sustain the pressure of International cricket, though some of them did have the ability. Two of them were Opi (Mehrab) & Rokon (Al Shahriar), talent wise probably at per or even better than Tamim, but never stood the pressure of International cricket & they were not dedicated enough. But the biggest loss for BD cricket is Ashraful - I watched him when he was 13-14 years old, practicing in South Dhaka clubs; he was as good as some of those averaging twice than him, but never fulfilled his potential.

AUS, ENG, SAF & NZ system is so good that, unless suffering from fitness; hardly any of their talented players misses out. Don't think Hick was underachiever - he was predominantly front foot player like Zaheer, brilliant against medium pacers (hence a County bully), until the West Indians made him smell the ball, everybody understood his medicine. Athers was a much, much better player than his average of 38, while Sir Ian Botham didn't do any justice to his God gifted ability. I think, had he not passed away at 23 for tuberculosis, Archie Jackson would have finished as the 2nd best batsman of his generation, behind the man he shared debut series, despite being born a year later (1909). I don't know what to believe, but for 2-3 years Bob Massie was the best swing bowler in world - before/after it's blank, don't know if he was under or over achiever. But among the Aussies I have seen, undoubtedly the biggest looser in Gary Gilmore - by the age of 25 he had 11 wickets in WC SF & Final, 58 Test wickets at 25, a batting average of 25+ with a century from 15 Tests ........ by 26 he was finished with his boozing & WSC. For the Kiwis, Martin Crow would have finished with 10+ Test runs had his keens not betrayed & for few years, Deon Nash was potentially worlds best all-rounder in making. Allot had a great WC, but don't think he was that good.

For SAF, the issue was different, so I won't rate Barry Richards or G Pollock as under achievers. In fact, opposite could be true as well - we have the picture of 24 years of Barry dominating Aussies of 27 years of GP at his prime, but we haven't seen them fail - 15 years of International cricket, who knows. Similar tale - had Viv Richards toured SAF with the rebel team of 1982, he would have finished with 5000+ Test runs at 65 (& a SR of 70+, in 70s!!!!!!), another 4000+ in ODI at 55 (& a SR close to 100 in 70s!!) & 2 World Cups under his belt. Oblate, may be Bret Schultz could have been better than Makhya, had he been fit enough, I don't know.

For WI, Lara & Richards were not underachievers actually - only a fool 'll measure them with the stats. I think, one player who really should feel disappointed looking 30 years back of his career is Carl Hooper. He finished with Test average of 36 & just about 100 Test wickets; was good enough to add at least 15 with his average & double, may be triple his wickets tally; and he was probably among top 10 slip catchers I have ever seen.
 
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I think, had he not passed away at 23 for tuberculosis, Archie Jackson would have finished as the 2nd best batsman of his generation, behind the man he shared debut series, despite being born a year later (1909).


But among the Aussies I have seen, undoubtedly the biggest looser in Gary Gilmore - by the age of 25 he had 11 wickets in WC SF & Final, 58 Test wickets at 25, a batting average of 25+ with a century from 15 Tests ........ by 26 he was finished with his boozing & WSC.


I think, one player who really should feel disappointed looking 30 years back of his career is Carl Hooper. He finished with Test average of 36 & just about 100 Test wickets; was good enough to add at least 15 with his average & double, may be triple his wickets tally; and he was probably among top 10 slip catchers I have ever seen.


Agree with these three.
 
my underachievers team would be:-
1. Jesse ryder(biggest underachiever)
2. Chris gayle(yes he underachieved because of his careless attitude)
3. Michael Clark ( don't know why i feel he should have been ATG player if not for injuries)
4 . kevin peterson( no explanation needed)
5. misbah (C) ( playing the way he did yet not scoring single century is underachieving in my books)
6. Mark boucher (WK) ( again injury)
7. Flintoff ( why he retired so early :-( he was amazing)
8. Irfan pathan( 2nd biggest underachiever)
9. Shane bond( ATG material)
10. amit mishra ( In test hw would have lethal where batsmen have defensive approach and don't go after bowler )
11.morne morkel ( his class and stats doesn't match)


12th man: rohit sharma in test/gautam gambhir
except for our 12th men every player would have been ATG in at least one format if not for reckless attitude, injuries or greed (Chris gayle).
 
Zaheer Khan. Guy is talented & had a good understanding of the game but was also as lazy as they come.

Could easily have avg 25-27 if he had a good mentor.
 
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Forgot another name - Md Zahid. I am sure at his prime he was faster than Sohaib at his prime on effort balls, may be Sohaib on rhythm was faster than Zahid on average speed of 5 overs. He was taller & had one of the deadliest yorkers I have seen.
 
How has Shane Bond under achieved? How are you suppose to achieve if you are injured all the time?

Also if you ask me Flintoff over achieved. This guy was a pretty much useless bat and bowl before 2005. Took some mighty phaitys.
 
Oh he was quite good. And it was followed by a tri-series in Sharjah where he blasted 130 off 67 deliveries against an attack featurig Ambrose, Walsh etc.

it was the year 93 I think pak at one stage 11/1 in 11 overs. He started with malik who made 85. Lara destructed our bowling & WI won that match easily
 
Shahid Afridi and not in odis or t20s , he could have been an asset for pakistan in test cricket. He decided to go for glory instead of serving pakistan well.
 
Shoaib Akhtar. Should HV debuted in 1994 as he himself says, when he had no fitness problems.
Imagine him and the two w's at their peak all bowling in tandem.
2 years of his were wasted sitting on the bench for PIA, and he only got his chance after switching domestic teams.
In fact he got an international call up right after his first season, which shows that he was being wasted.



However due to that, we didnt get yo see his best years.
Bcoz of a lack of advise he adopted wrong training methods . For example, he used to bowl 25 overs a day in,even in nets, didn't matter whether there was a match on or not.
This overtraining was the wrong way to go bcoz of his hyperextendible joints demanded more preservation and a different style of training, which he only came to know 2, 3 years into making his int. debut
Therefore, when he was introduced to int. Cricket, his knees were already done for and his best years behind him.
 
Lehmann was a superstar apparently in the australian domestic circuit yet he was capable of more than what his test average of 45 indicates - same goes for Damien Martyn. Symonds was insanely good on his day(better than everyone except for ponting and gilchrist) yet he underachieved too.

Bevan was amazing in ODI's but strangely struggled in tests...

Shane Lee might have been a hack but he was rated as one of the best all-rounders at the turn of the century.

Considering their abilities, I think Mark Waugh and Michael Slater were big underachievers in test cricket.
 
A.Symonds - what a waste of talent and potential
I.Botham - Didn't work on his fitness
Yuvi - Lazy should had achieved amazing stats in tests but ended up as the biggest disappointment in tests.
Irfan - Wasted the gift of swing Gods.
Inzi - Talented but again not mentally strong pathetic fitness level
L Klusner - my fav LOI player in 90's, started amazingly not even sure what went wrong.
M Amarnath - Best overseas player for India and worst at home and also politics kept him out of team.
Lara - in LOI ,was good till 1998 but never lived upto the potential he had.
Cairns - for apparent reason looked deadly when playing but just didn't reach the next level.

I would actually put most English players coz they defn underachieve but Botham,Hick,Ramprakash come to mind on immediate note.

IMO Lankan players live upto potential most of the time and are very consistent.
 
Wasim Akram in Tests.. Shoaib Akhtar overall... Sachin Tendulkar average wise, should have averaged above 60 in Tests and above 50 in ODIs taking into context his talent... Saeed Anwar overall... Saqlain Mushtaq in Tests... ETC
 
Basit Ali: in his debut test series against the then might west indies in 1992-93, he was holding the test batting together while his illustrious colleagues for falling like nine pins. He had moulded his batting as an ode to his idol - Javed Miandad. I thought he was going to be the next great middle order batsman for Pakistan. Maybe I did not understand cricket well enough, or may be he became to embroiled in the issues that were surrounding the team at the time.

Ultimately, a real waste.

Basit comes to my mind also as a no 1 underachiever in Pakistani Jersey. He was a brilliant batsmen, could have easily become a heart throb in Pakistani batting now a days. Misbah, Hafeez, Younis ,Azhar would have been nowhere near him talentwise and capability wise. I still remember his blistering knock of 127 off 79 deliveries so far I can remember against the then mighty WI in Sharjah cup final in a crisis situation for Pakistan.I saw his classy
big hitting when Pakistan just made a short tour to Bangladesh before going to visit NZ back in I think 1994. He would have easily piled up 10000 runs in ODIs if he was not wasted by bad Pakistani cricket politics
 
Shahid Afridi and not in odis or t20s , he could have been an asset for pakistan in test cricket. He decided to go for glory instead of serving pakistan well.

Lol. If any thread is created as overachiever in cricket i shall put his name first. He is more than lucky to represent such a huge number of matches for a team like Pakistan
 
Sachin, I mean he's spoken about as the greatest alongside Bradman so his average should been 46 runs higher then it was.
 
This thread lost all credibility as soon as Tendulkar, Inzamam, Graham Thorpe and MoYo were included on these lists. These were some of the best batsmen to play the game ever and they still underachieved? Some of y'all need a dictionary.

Sorry but Inzy and MoYo struggled immensely in away conditions - particularly in australia and SAF and hence underachieved based on the talent that they had. Same goes for WC's where the bottled under pressure in multiple WC's.

Not sure why Tendulkar's name has been brought up though...
 
How has Shane Bond under achieved? How are you suppose to achieve if you are injured all the time?

Also if you ask me Flintoff over achieved. This guy was a pretty much useless bat and bowl before 2005. Took some mighty phaitys.

Flintoff was very talented as shown in the Ashes 2005. Could not perform otherwise suggests that he underachieved. Was known for also having a poor attitude e.g. the boating incident in the 2007 WC
 
A.Symonds - what a waste of talent and potential
I.Botham - Didn't work on his fitness
Yuvi - Lazy should had achieved amazing stats in tests but ended up as the biggest disappointment in tests.
Irfan - Wasted the gift of swing Gods.
Inzi - Talented but again not mentally strong pathetic fitness level
L Klusner - my fav LOI player in 90's, started amazingly not even sure what went wrong.
M Amarnath - Best overseas player for India and worst at home and also politics kept him out of team.
Lara - in LOI ,was good till 1998 but never lived upto the potential he had.
Cairns - for apparent reason looked deadly when playing but just didn't reach the next level.

I would actually put most English players coz they defn underachieve but Botham,Hick,Ramprakash come to mind on immediate note.

IMO Lankan players live upto potential most of the time and are very consistent.

Andrew Symonds - dual world cup winner, test batting average over 40, ODI batting average of 39.75 at a strike rate of over 90 and test and odi bowling average of 37?

I thought he did quite well for himself.
 
Wasim Akram the batsman was a pretty big underachiever but yeah top of the list has to be Afridi.
 
my underachievers team would be:-
1. Jesse ryder(biggest underachiever)
2. Chris gayle(yes he underachieved because of his careless attitude)
3. Michael Clark ( don't know why i feel he should have been ATG player if not for injuries)
4 . kevin peterson( no explanation needed)
5. misbah (C) ( playing the way he did yet not scoring single century is underachieving in my books)
6. Mark boucher (WK) ( again injury)
7. Flintoff ( why he retired so early :-( he was amazing)
8. Irfan pathan( 2nd biggest underachiever)
9. Shane bond( ATG material)
10. amit mishra ( In test hw would have lethal where batsmen have defensive approach and don't go after bowler )
11.morne morkel ( his class and stats doesn't match)


12th man: rohit sharma in test/gautam gambhir
except for our 12th men every player would have been ATG in at least one format if not for reckless attitude, injuries or greed (Chris gayle).

Good stuff - hats off!
 
Andrew Symonds - dual world cup winner, test batting average over 40, ODI batting average of 39.75 at a strike rate of over 90 and test and odi bowling average of 37?

I thought he did quite well for himself.

I had higher view of him and expected his ending stats to be much much better than that.
 
Lol. If any thread is created as overachiever in cricket i shall put his name first. He is more than lucky to represent such a huge number of matches for a team like Pakistan


In terms of longevity and coming back into the team, yes - he did overachieve.

But in terms of stats and numbers, Afridi grossly underachieved for a man of his talent. He should have rivalled Kallis, Angelo Matthews etc. but his poor attitude and unwillingness to improve cost him. His briilant hand eye coordination and raw power made his somewhat efffective but he could have been so, so much more...
 
1- Afridi - the guy was talented. I mean as a leg spinner alone he could have accomplished alot. And he could have worked on his batting. Could have become an allrounder as good as Wasim
2- Irfan Pathan- Was supposed to be the next Kapil Dev
3- Umar Akmal. The guy was immensely talented. Was the batsman Pakistan desperately needed and still need.
4-Flintoff and Bond- Careers marked with injuries with brief glimpses of greatness
5- Shoaib Akhtar- was supposed to achieve so much more. And was succeeding Wasim Akram and Waqar. Infact he was supposed to lead the attack with
6- Mohammad Asif- Again like Akhtar... a career marked with controversies.
7-Mohammad Sami- Yet another fast bowler who could have made it big in the 2000s. He just lost the plot and fell through
 
I think, from IND the biggest under achiever is Kapil Dev. He never played for his stats & hardly bothered for milestones. Kapil could have improved his Test batting average while one of crickets biggest loss is that Kapil (& his Captains) wasted him at 7, whereas he should have always played at 5. Apart from Kapil, I think I Pathan & UV had lot to offer in modern days, while an average of 35 & just 6 Test centuries don't reflect what an outstanding batsman Tiger Pataudi was (neither his Captaincy from the W/L ratio). UV could have ended with a Test career of 100+ matches; 6,000+ runs at 40+ (& SR of 75) & 200+ Test wickets at around 40. Unpopular statement, but those 2 Bombay guys were the over achievers - for that every second in Cricket field, they batted for own career.

For PAK (& probably in Cricket), the biggest underachiever was Imran Khan. Politics, WSC, injury, in-fights, groupings dented his career probably more than anyone - from 1983 to 1986 Imran lost 3 golden years & about 25 Tests when he was averaging <18 with ball & close to 50 with bat. Before that, lost 2-3 years to WSC in his mid 20s, & another 2-3 years at Oxford in his early 20s (though those 2-3 years made the Man Imran; playing for PIA or Habib Bank would have made him another Manzoor Elahi or Navid Anjum at best), yet he is arguably the greatest ever all-rounder. The other player from PAK I really felt missed out is Afridi - what a loser. He had a Test 100, a Test 50, a Test 5fer in his first 3 Tests & was good enough to finish with 400 Test wickets & 8,000 Test runs, both at around 35 (& a batting SR of 80+), in 20 years & 150+ Test career. He was once good enough to make the team as leg-spinner & had the capability to smash West Indian pacers for a 3 hours Century at Bridgetown - what a looser, I must say again. Apart from these 2, I think Wasim never focused on his batting & Inzi on his fitness - both of them should have significant better batting career. For LO version only, Malik is my biggest disappointment. He is easily the best middle-order of his generation behind MoYo & a quite effective spinner. There was a long thread on who is better ODI all-rounder MoHa or Malik & I still 'll go for Malik; that too after MoHa been the leading ODI all-rounder for best part of this decade - Malik was that good.

For SRL, I heard that Roy Dias was an outstanding stroke maker, but hardly achieved anything, but haven't seen him. Oblate, Malinga should have a much better Test career, but he focused too much on shorter version & struggled for fitness.

Current group of BD players are performing, but their predecessors didn't posses the mental toughness to sustain the pressure of International cricket, though some of them did have the ability. Two of them were Opi (Mehrab) & Rokon (Al Shahriar), talent wise probably at per or even better than Tamim, but never stood the pressure of International cricket & they were not dedicated enough. But the biggest loss for BD cricket is Ashraful - I watched him when he was 13-14 years old, practicing in South Dhaka clubs; he was as good as some of those averaging twice than him, but never fulfilled his potential.

AUS, ENG, SAF & NZ system is so good that, unless suffering from fitness; hardly any of their talented players misses out. Don't think Hick was underachiever - he was predominantly front foot player like Zaheer, brilliant against medium pacers (hence a County bully), until the West Indians made him smell the ball, everybody understood his medicine. Athers was a much, much better player than his average of 38, while Sir Ian Botham didn't do any justice to his God gifted ability. I think, had he not passed away at 23 for tuberculosis, Archie Jackson would have finished as the 2nd best batsman of his generation, behind the man he shared debut series, despite being born a year later (1909). I don't know what to believe, but for 2-3 years Bob Massie was the best swing bowler in world - before/after it's blank, don't know if he was under or over achiever. But among the Aussies I have seen, undoubtedly the biggest looser in Gary Gilmore - by the age of 25 he had 11 wickets in WC SF & Final, 58 Test wickets at 25, a batting average of 25+ with a century from 15 Tests ........ by 26 he was finished with his boozing & WSC. For the Kiwis, Martin Crow would have finished with 10+ Test runs had his keens not betrayed & for few years, Deon Nash was potentially worlds best all-rounder in making. Allot had a great WC, but don't think he was that good.

For SAF, the issue was different, so I won't rate Barry Richards or G Pollock as under achievers. In fact, opposite could be true as well - we have the picture of 24 years of Barry dominating Aussies of 27 years of GP at his prime, but we haven't seen them fail - 15 years of International cricket, who knows. Similar tale - had Viv Richards toured SAF with the rebel team of 1982, he would have finished with 5000+ Test runs at 65 (& a SR of 70+, in 70s!!!!!!), another 4000+ in ODI at 55 (& a SR close to 100 in 70s!!) & 2 World Cups under his belt. Oblate, may be Bret Schultz could have been better than Makhya, had he been fit enough, I don't know.

For WI, Lara & Richards were not underachievers actually - only a fool 'll measure them with the stats. I think, one player who really should feel disappointed looking 30 years back of his career is Carl Hooper. He finished with Test average of 36 & just about 100 Test wickets; was good enough to add at least 15 with his average & double, may be triple his wickets tally; and he was probably among top 10 slip catchers I have ever seen.

Brilliant, brillant post!

A few other names I would add is the West Indian Lawrence Rowe. Gary Sobers described as the best batsman he had ever seen. He had scored 214 and 100* on his DEBUT against NZ and averaged 72 after his first dozen or so games. He scored a test triple hundred in only his 5th or 6th game! However, a rare eye condition deteriorated his game and he finished with an overall average of only 43.

IMO - Inzy and MoYo underachieved due to their struggles in foreign conditions. They coudl and should have been up there with the Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting of our generation...

I seem to recall a Sri Lankan all rounder who was highly touted at the beginning of the century. His name was Gurusinghe or something like that. There was an article on cricinfo and I think he was also charged for having a suspected bowling action around 2001. He never lived up to this potential (partially due to the death of his grandmother as he was entering international cricket).

Do you recall his name?
 
Andrew Symonds - dual world cup winner, test batting average over 40, ODI batting average of 39.75 at a strike rate of over 90 and test and odi bowling average of 37?

I thought he did quite well for himself.

Despite these good stats - people still feel he underachieved. THATS how good he was rated to be...
 
It's obscene that a boy of his talent became a man who will spend the rest of his life looking up at Kallis and Sangakkara.

It is a pity that Sangakkara and Kallis have better test averages than Tendulkar. Tendulkar had ridiculous batting abilities, good enough to tame the greatest of bowlers with minimal efforts.

PS, do you really in your heart take any of them over Tendulkar as your test or ODI batsman? I will take your answer, whatever it is.
 
Sachin, I mean he's spoken about as the greatest alongside Bradman so his average should been 46 runs higher then it was.

I have seen a lot of Tendulkar batting and i think its to do with him playing too aggressively when on song. He could have easily got that average in the 60s bracket had he played more carefully after hitting hundreds.

Tendulkar was invincible in that 241 not out knock at SCG and that is when he pretty much slapped himself to not play a bloody off drive for the entire inning. Just to give a glimpse of how complete and invincible he could be when he decided to make his hard work count.
 
In terms of longevity and coming back into the team, yes - he did overachieve.

But in terms of stats and numbers, Afridi grossly underachieved for a man of his talent. He should have rivalled Kallis, Angelo Matthews etc. but his poor attitude and unwillingness to improve cost him. His briilant hand eye coordination and raw power made his somewhat efffective but he could have been so, so much more...

I think it is a myth only on behalf of Pakistanis that Afridi was a talented batsman and could have done more.He always was a slogger, not a reliable big hitter like Shehwag, Simonds,Maxwell.His choice of deliveries to hit was poor.He always preferred his slogging over the team's need. Pakistan lost quite a number of ODI matches when he just needed to stay on the crease and just carry on.
No cricket pundit outside Pakistan thinks Afridi as a talented batsman . He has a flamboyant image as a batsman. That's all. To compare him with Kallis , Mathews is a big insult to these brilliant guys
 
I have seen a lot of Tendulkar batting and i think its to do with him playing too aggressively when on song. He could have easily got that average in the 60s bracket had he played more carefully after hitting hundreds.

Tendulkar was invincible in that 241 not out knock at SCG and that is when he pretty much slapped himself to not play a bloody off drive for the entire inning. Just to give a glimpse of how complete and invincible he could be when he decided to make his hard work count.


Look, I have nothing to do in this argument, but what you are saying is not correct. I have seen that 241* at SCG - you need to look back at the bowlers in that match for AUS, don't get fooled by "the bowlers of that AUS". SRT has an unreal average against BD playing 5-6 matches at around 200 in mid to late 00s - with dure respect to the great man & my countrymen, I 'll take runs scored in Lancashire League more seriously than those against us in last decade. Inzi's 138* wasn't technically good innings, but it was made under utmost pressure, saved the blushes of a cricket proud nation from it's biggest shame in history & saved a wonderful batsman's career. In 90s, SRT had a series of Test scores in SRL & against ZIM at home, which he himself 'll not be proud of. His ODI career was boosted by bashing on Indian roads throughout 90s & if I am not wrong, his only 100 outside Asia in 90s was against mighty Kenyans in 1999 WC. Besides, some of his ODI hundreds actually doesn't reflect the man playing for his country........ Your 2nd mistake is his aggressiveness when on song - there are individual examples for a 23 years career, but in general SRT was, to a certain extent selfish,once he was into his 80s.

I have nothing against SRT - if my son wants to be a batsman, the man I 'll ask him to idolize is SRT - disciplined, dedicated, committed, focused & passionate; you don't get a better role model than that little man. But, he was lucky as well for his God like image. In 1990s, Indian market was opened for global market, ESPN came & SRT enjoyed the same impact Jordan enjoyed in 80s & 90s in USA. With decline of hockey, football & tennis, for a country of 1 billion, there was hardly any sports icon. In fact not in the other common interest of Indians as well - it was the decade in between Amitabh, Rajesh, Mithun, Jitendra of 70s, 80s and the Khans of 00s. ESPN used SRT as their business mascot (even there was a month long campaign - "India's Sachin Tendulkar, sportsman of the millennium" & they put him over Ali, Jordan, Rod Lever, Jack Nicklus, Pele, Babe Rooth, Carl Lewis, Lance Armstrong ........).

There are other aspects, which we can argue, but for a player with his stats & achievements, he gets too much mileage from Cricket world which is dominated by Indian media.
 
I think it is a myth only on behalf of Pakistanis that Afridi was a talented batsman and could have done more.He always was a slogger, not a reliable big hitter like Shehwag, Simonds,Maxwell.His choice of deliveries to hit was poor.He always preferred his slogging over the team's need. Pakistan lost quite a number of ODI matches when he just needed to stay on the crease and just carry on.
No cricket pundit outside Pakistan thinks Afridi as a talented batsman . He has a flamboyant image as a batsman. That's all. To compare him with Kallis , Mathews is a big insult to these brilliant guys

I am not comparing them - I am saying that had Afridi become better and improved his batting, he may have been in a similar mold to Kallis, Matthews etc.
 
Although I agree that Sachin has achieved lot in his cricketing career but still I feel that he had an opportunity and time on his side to achieve much bigger than what he end up achieving.

I can remember countless innings where he got out due to trying to play cute shot or taking challenge from bowler and try to hit them on their first few balls or just became too confident and try something silly....if those were avoided, he would have end up achieving 150 centuries and 60+ average in both format of the games.. I am not saying this purely based on emotions but this he could have achieved very easily..

Freaking 20 scores in 90's that it self should tell you that for him 150 centuries would have been achievable...may be 20k runs or more in both format as well....

Arrrr...not to be...
 
In my honest assessment over the period of the last 10-12 years it has to be none other than Mohammad Ashraful. Ashraful had a top notch technique and ability to cart the bowlers around the park yet would get out in the most ridiculous of fashion. He could have easily averaged 50 in tests and 45 in ODIs yet averaged half of that in his career. Maybe we didn't have the resources to help him use his ability to best use, but he definitely let himself down in the world stage. At the age of 16 scoring a century against Vaas and Murali, only a person with special talent could do that.

However ofcourse, the fixing saga is a different tale overall.
 
surely afridi. had it all to become the greatest player of this generation. he severely underachieved but was still good enough to end up as one of the greats of this era.
 
Robin Utthapa- He could have averaged 35/40 in ODIs quite easily. A class player with perfect footwork and has every shot in the book.
 
If Tendulkr played as risk free as someone like Younis, Sangakkara or Kallis, he would have averaged like 65-70 something.
 
Look, I have nothing to do in this argument, but what you are saying is not correct. I have seen that 241* at SCG - you need to look back at the bowlers in that match for AUS, don't get fooled by "the bowlers of that AUS". SRT has an unreal average against BD playing 5-6 matches at around 200 in mid to late 00s - with dure respect to the great man & my countrymen, I 'll take runs scored in Lancashire League more seriously than those against us in last decade. Inzi's 138* wasn't technically good innings, but it was made under utmost pressure, saved the blushes of a cricket proud nation from it's biggest shame in history & saved a wonderful batsman's career. In 90s, SRT had a series of Test scores in SRL & against ZIM at home, which he himself 'll not be proud of. His ODI career was boosted by bashing on Indian roads throughout 90s & if I am not wrong, his only 100 outside Asia in 90s was against mighty Kenyans in 1999 WC. Besides, some of his ODI hundreds actually doesn't reflect the man playing for his country........ Your 2nd mistake is his aggressiveness when on song - there are individual examples for a 23 years career, but in general SRT was, to a certain extent selfish,once he was into his 80s.

I have nothing against SRT - if my son wants to be a batsman, the man I 'll ask him to idolize is SRT - disciplined, dedicated, committed, focused & passionate; you don't get a better role model than that little man. But, he was lucky as well for his God like image. In 1990s, Indian market was opened for global market, ESPN came & SRT enjoyed the same impact Jordan enjoyed in 80s & 90s in USA. With decline of hockey, football & tennis, for a country of 1 billion, there was hardly any sports icon. In fact not in the other common interest of Indians as well - it was the decade in between Amitabh, Rajesh, Mithun, Jitendra of 70s, 80s and the Khans of 00s. ESPN used SRT as their business mascot (even there was a month long campaign - "India's Sachin Tendulkar, sportsman of the millennium" & they put him over Ali, Jordan, Rod Lever, Jack Nicklus, Pele, Babe Rooth, Carl Lewis, Lance Armstrong ........).

There are other aspects, which we can argue, but for a player with his stats & achievements, he gets too much mileage from Cricket world which is dominated by Indian media.

Its sad to see knowledge-able posters holding such bias against certain players.

Brian Lara, as a test batsman, was mediocre away from home in the 90's, failing on every occasion he was faced with a competitive bowling attack (McGrath, Warne, Donald, Wasim, Waqar) Yet he does not receive half the flak for it as SRT does for his away failures in ODI's in the 90's. In ODI's away performances are not as important a criteria as in tests anyway.

Unsure of why you're belittling SRT by bringing in his performances against minnows. He is without a show of doubt the greatest Asian test player against ATG bowling attacks, especially away from home. I would love to have a lengthy debate on the same. Even batsmen like Sunil Gavaskar do not compare to him in that regard. His 241* came against Gillespie/Lee/McGill, which was not great but certainly a good attack. McGrath was the only bowler who was missing and could've caused problems for him in that series, and he handled him pretty well when he faced him in Aus circa 1999.

Inzamam's hundred didn't only come against a rubbish Bangla side, it came in a dead rubber when the series was already won by Pakistan. A couple of SRT's hundreds against Bangla came with the team in a precarious position (Dhaka 2004 and Chittagong 2010) Had he not scored those runs India had a huge chance of losing which would render the series 'un-winnable' for India (since both were 2 match series) A much bigger embarrassment in my honest opinion.

As for the topic, from an Indian perspective -

Vinod Kambli and Irfan Pathan.
 
Its sad to see knowledge-able posters holding such bias against certain players.

Brian Lara, as a test batsman, was mediocre away from home in the 90's, failing on every occasion he was faced with a competitive bowling attack (McGrath, Warne, Donald, Wasim, Waqar) Yet he does not receive half the flak for it as SRT does for his away failures in ODI's in the 90's. In ODI's away performances are not as important a criteria as in tests anyway.

Unsure of why you're belittling SRT by bringing in his performances against minnows. He is without a show of doubt the greatest Asian test player against ATG bowling attacks, especially away from home. I would love to have a lengthy debate on the same. Even batsmen like Sunil Gavaskar do not compare to him in that regard. His 241* came against Gillespie/Lee/McGill, which was not great but certainly a good attack. McGrath was the only bowler who was missing and could've caused problems for him in that series, and he handled him pretty well when he faced him in Aus circa 1999.

Inzamam's hundred didn't only come against a rubbish Bangla side, it came in a dead rubber when the series was already won by Pakistan. A couple of SRT's hundreds against Bangla came with the team in a precarious position (Dhaka 2004 and Chittagong 2010) Had he not scored those runs India had a huge chance of losing which would render the series 'un-winnable' for India (since both were 2 match series) A much bigger embarrassment in my honest opinion.

As for the topic, from an Indian perspective -

Vinod Kambli and Irfan Pathan.



No personal bias, trust me.

You can check again the SCG Test & the scores to ***** that 241*. Against BD, I take the CTG (2010) one; but not sure how that BD side would have turned an innings & 200+ defeat not sure........ As I said, Inzi's innings wasn't technically good; but the team & individual pressure was unparalleled - it was played on 4th innings & surprisingly PCB groundsman provided exactly the wicket our dibley-doblies would have dreamed for.

SRT never played against the 2Ws at their prime, hardly played against the other 2 pair of his generation - Ambi & Walshi (Bishop as well) & apart from the Cape Town innings, not much against Donald/Pollock either. If you check back, AUS came to IND in late 90s with an under stregth attack, then again in late 2000s.......

I write what I see & understand, no personal bias to anyone or any nation.
 
Please don't turn this into another Sachin thread. Please. There are a 100 threads for that
 
No personal bias, trust me.

You can check again the SCG Test & the scores to ***** that 241*. Against BD, I take the CTG (2010) one; but not sure how that BD side would have turned an innings & 200+ defeat not sure........ As I said, Inzi's innings wasn't technically good; but the team & individual pressure was unparalleled - it was played on 4th innings & surprisingly PCB groundsman provided exactly the wicket our dibley-doblies would have dreamed for.

SRT never played against the 2Ws at their prime, hardly played against the other 2 pair of his generation - Ambi & Walshi (Bishop as well) & apart from the Cape Town innings, not much against Donald/Pollock either. If you check back, AUS came to IND in late 90s with an under stregth attack, then again in late 2000s.......

I write what I see & understand, no personal bias to anyone or any nation.

I think three of SRT's innings against Donald (111 in Jo'berg, 169 in Cape Town and 97 in Mumbai on a ridiculous batting track) which would rank among the top 15 test innings played against Donald. No wonder Donald rates Sachin as the best he faced. Although i believe he could've been a bit more consistent against Donald at home, especially. Against Pollock, he has a counter-attacking 155 at an SR of 85 with the team down at 68-4.

Never faced the two W's at his peak, agreed. But the two W's didn't do much whenever they faced SRT in tests, either at the tender age of 16 or during the epic clash in 1999. Watching the two W's vs SRT at their peak, would've been the greatest clash of the 90's. Amongst Pakistani bowlers, Saqlain and Akhtar have troubled SRT the most.

He did tour WI in 1997, and while Walsh was completely neutralised by SRT/Dravid/Sidhu, he handled Walsh and Bishop well.

SRT faced a full strength Aussie side thrice in his career, he was man-of the series in 1999 (in Aus), scored a hundred at the decider of arguably the greatest test series ever played in 2001 (averaging 50+) and failed in 2004 at home when he was rushed back from injury to play the last 2 matches of a series that looked to be going only one way.

Inzi's hundred was good, but in a series that was already decided. SRT failed miserably in all innings of the 2004 tour to Aus (apart from the second innings in Adelaide where he took two vital wickets and a partnership with Dravid that helped India win the test)..but still a relative failure when compared to his high standards. Nonetheless he scored 241 against a good attack in the decider of the series and out India in a position where they couldn't lose. Had Ganguly declared a tad earlier or the Indian bowlers bowled a bit better, we even had the rare-est of chances to win a series in Aus. Ifs and buts...
 
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