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Which side is facing a bigger crisis right now? Australia or Pakistan

Savak

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Both sides have wicket keeper batsmen as captains who do not deserve to be in the playing eleven but Pakistan has legitimate excuses behind it to justify their poor performances ie lack of international cricket in Pakistan, poor domestic structure and pitches.

But for a first world country, a decent domestic structure and a billion dollar TV rights deal, i would be extremely concerned at the lack of quality batsmen in the Australian system at the moment and the lack of quality and the massive dip in form and decline in skills shown by the Australian pace attack since Sandpaper
 
I would also add that arguments can be made that bringing in fresh players from Pakistan's domestic cricket and getting the team selection correct could be expected to lift Pakistan's performances

Unfortunately in Australian Cricket, the stock of players appear to be very non existent right now. Shane Warne is not even blaming Australia's batting atm, he knew the batting was poor, he is blaming the poor performance from the Australian pace attack especially Starc for putting massive pressure on an already brittle Australian batting line up
 
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Australia will eventually start producing world class players again. Just a matter of time. Imagine a Pakistan side without Wasim and Waqar in the early 90's. Pakistan would've been a shadow of the team that was. That's exactly what happened when they lost two of the world's best batsmen.

Out of the lot they played recently, only khwaja, marnus and Mitchell marsh looked dreadful and Shaun marsh looks past it. Head, Harris, Handscomb are decent. Bancroft will come back and they have some decent batting products in Shield. Even Maxwell was in great form. They need to select based on shield stats and not nobodies like marnus.
 
Australia will eventually start producing world class players again. Just a matter of time. Imagine a Pakistan side without Wasim and Waqar in the early 90's. Pakistan would've been a shadow of the team that was. That's exactly what happened when they lost two of the world's best batsmen.

Out of the lot they played recently, only khwaja, marnus and Mitchell marsh looked dreadful and Shaun marsh looks past it. Head, Harris, Handscomb are decent. Bancroft will come back and they have some decent batting products in Shield. Even Maxwell was in great form. They need to select based on shield stats and not nobodies like marnus.

Sorry but no one that you mentioned is quality, these players are highly inconsistent and are big Bash specialists.
 
They have world class bowlers. 4 of them. If you entire national team depends on two batsmen then they have to look at their domestic system. They are not minnows like Kenya who had no one but Steve Tikolo.
INdia is in similar boat. But there are lot o promising youngsters coming through.
 
Sorry but no one that you mentioned is quality, these players are highly inconsistent and are big Bash specialists.

I didn't say they are world class.Their brightest 20 year old talent Will Pucovski has health issues . Another blow for them i guess.
 
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Australia and it's not even a contest. They just had the biggest scandal their game has seen since the underarm delivery which saw their Prime Minister wade into the arguments. They lost their captain and their second-best bat. The domestic structures are creaking, despite the Sheffield Shield being the best FC tournament in the world for decades. The solutions aren't clear and cricket is in a generational low in the public standing.

We've got issues, but almost all of them are clearly linked to lack of cricket at home and lack of money in the grass-root game. The solutions are not easy, but there is a path ahead for the PCB.
 
Pardon?

Tim Paine is one of the best Aussie keepers of my lifetime. If he hadn’t been so badly injured he’d have played 140 Tests by now.

Australia’s problems will be covered over by the returns of Smith and Warner.

Pakistan have a perfectly decent and young spine of Shan Masood, Babar Azam, Haris Sohail, Shadab Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Mohammad Amir and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

They just need to ruthlessly eliminate the dead wood: Azhar Ali is past it, Sarfraz Ahmed is hopelessly out of form and Yasir Shah is a liability outside Asia. And Imam and Fakhar are out of their depth.
 
Australia.... Because they know what the word insult means.... They will get a lot of criticism from their former players...

While as Pakistani former players as usual will say back the team... We don't have real alternatives.... They will just give lame excuses....
 
Pardon?

Tim Paine is one of the best Aussie keepers of my lifetime. If he hadn’t been so badly injured he’d have played 140 Tests by now.

Australia’s problems will be covered over by the returns of Smith and Warner.

Pakistan have a perfectly decent and young spine of Shan Masood, Babar Azam, Haris Sohail, Shadab Khan, Faheem Ashraf, Mohammad Amir and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

They just need to ruthlessly eliminate the dead wood: Azhar Ali is past it, Sarfraz Ahmed is hopelessly out of form and Yasir Shah is a liability outside Asia. And Imam and Fakhar are out of their depth.

Smith and Paine got their debut in the same match. Smith is around 65 tests now. I don't think he has missed 75 tests. So 140 tests for Paine would be a classic hyperbole from you. Warner debuted before Paine if i am not wrong. He has not even reached 100.
 
Australians are in a big crisis but eventually they should come out of this phase because of their strong domestic set up . For Pakistan , it is a norm for Atleast 20 years so I would not say that We are in any crisis as far as our oversees performances are concerned .Historically we did well in Eng , and were pathetic in both South Africa and Australia . Same situation exists for us at the moment .For Pakistan , only crisis is their bad performance is UAE , we need to be dominant there like before otherwise we are going to be a test class minnow .
 
Smith and Paine got their debut in the same match. Smith is around 65 tests now. I don't think he has missed 75 tests. So 140 tests for Paine would be a classic hyperbole from you. Warner debuted before Paine if i am not wrong. He has not even reached 100.

Ha ha, very very good points! You got me!
 
Australia in much bigger crises only due to the fact that no talent is coming through. They might improve a bit once Smith and Warner return but nothing to look forward to is coming through the system. I am afraid if things remain going the way they are we might see another WI in Aus. It looks like youngsters are not opting for cricket in Australia.

For Pakistan decent talent is coming atleast, if they fail or succeed is another matter. Babar Azam, Shaheen are just couple of examples. Though Pak also needs atleast 1, 2 potential world class batsmen.
 
Australians are in a big crisis but eventually they should come out of this phase because of their strong domestic set up . For Pakistan , it is a norm for Atleast 20 years so I would not say that We are in any crisis as far as our oversees performances are concerned .Historically we did well in Eng , and were pathetic in both South Africa and Australia . Same situation exists for us at the moment .For Pakistan , only crisis is their bad performance is UAE , we need to be dominant there like before otherwise we are going to be a test class minnow .

WI was also producing players in 1980’s but eventually they stopped producing bcz young boys started opting for NBA and other sports.

Aussies system cant develop a player if there is no talent coming through. There is not a single batsmen in the aussies domestic structure who is hyped by even the Australians theselves because there is none. Same is the case with bowling other than the main trio. Yes one or two young bowlers coming through might become good but team and cricketing culture is going down. Sandpaper gate has contributed more towards lack of young children opting the sport.
 
Australia - easily.

First of all, cricket is not the only sport in the country as opposed to Pakistan where only one sport is being professionally managed and played. In Australia, kids have a lot of options and with the spot-fixing saga coupled with the dwindling performances of the men's team, cricket in general has taken a nose dive.

However, I would like to take this opportunity and say sports in general is at a critical stage in Australia, not just cricket alone. You just have to go back 20 years ago, when I would say Australia were the envy of the world when it came to sports.

1999 was a year that few Australians would ever forget. Australia had won the 1999 Rugby World Cup, came back from the depths of despair to win the 1999 Cricket World Cup, became Davis Cup champions in tennis for the 28th time and started their incredible 16 Test match winning streak. Lest we forget, Australia were also netball champions, Tri-nations rugby league winners, hockey Champions Trophy winners and also had men and women surfing world champions. Never in the history, I would believe any country on Earth would have had that many accomplishments in 1 single year. They were truly the envy of the world. And all this with less than 20 million population.

A year later, Australia brought 58 medals in the Sydney Olympics.

Fast forward to 2019, Australia has produced only two Grand Slam champions in tennis - Lleyton Hewitt and Samantha Stosur in the last 20 years. A country which has won the Davis Cup 28 times (2nd only to US) does not even find itself in the World Group anymore. At Rio 2016, they brought 29 medals - exactly half of what they got in Sydney. In the last 12 months, their cricket team has only won 11 games out of 39 across all formats. Squash which used to synonymous with Australia along with Pakistan, has vanished altogether.

Even the coaches are not choosing to coach in Australia anymore. Guys like Gillespie, Stuart Law are coaching county teams in England and not in Australia. Trevor Bayliss is coaching England and plotting Australia's downfall. Darren Cahill, the famed tennis coach does not coach in Australia. Eddie Jones coaches the England Rugby team.

I just read that in November, PM Scott Morrison refused to address calls to reverse a funding crisis even after more than 200 Olympians demanded a meeting.

So overall, it's not just cricket alone. Australia in itself is suffering from a severe slump in sports. Money is not being injected into sports at all. Ipads, PlayStations are also not helping as probably kids value the online world more than going out and playing sports which is why we are the seeing the shoddiest talent from Australia in decades.

It's a full blown crisis I believe, and Australia is facing it a lot more than Pakistan. And Pakistan will survive simply because it is the only sport in which Pakistani public can find a solace because the team is still somewhat capable of springing a surprise here and there. As long as public interest remains, Pakistan cricket survives. Same cannot be said of Australia. If they do not address this, the decline could be terminal.
 
Pakistan. I am not sure why this is even a question.

Australia are simply going through a phase. Their bowling attack is still excellent, and they have two top batsmen unavailable. After they return, Australia would still thrash most teams in the world.

Across all conditions, in spite of not producing elite batsmen for a while, Australia is still among the top 3-4 teams.

Considering their domestic structure and sporting culture, it is only a matter of time before they start producing great players again.

On the other hand, Pakistan has been mediocre for over 15 years now and have been periodically getting worse and worse. For decades, our fast bowling kept us afloat but now it is nothing but mediocre as well.

The domestic cricket is a joke, there is no international cricket at home and the major teams are not interested in playing long series with us. Their is not a single elite star in the country, and the gap between us and the other top teams is only widening.

Not only are we producing mediocre players, we are also producing players with no personality and charisma. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and we are in terminal decline.

Pakistan cricket has suffered the same fate as Caribbean cricket - we are borderline minnows and our days as an elite cricket nation are done and dusted.
 
Pakistan. I am not sure why this is even a question.

Australia are simply going through a phase. Their bowling attack is still excellent, and they have two top batsmen unavailable. After they return, Australia would still thrash most teams in the world.

Across all conditions, in spite of not producing elite batsmen for a while, Australia is still among the top 3-4 teams.

Considering their domestic structure and sporting culture, it is only a matter of time before they start producing great players again.

On the other hand, Pakistan has been mediocre for over 15 years now and have been periodically getting worse and worse. For decades, our fast bowling kept us afloat but now it is nothing but mediocre as well.

The domestic cricket is a joke, there is no international cricket at home and the major teams are not interested in playing long series with us. Their is not a single elite star in the country, and the gap between us and the other top teams is only widening.

Not only are we producing mediocre players, we are also producing players with no personality and charisma. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and we are in terminal decline.

Pakistan cricket has suffered the same fate as Caribbean cricket - we are borderline minnows and our days as an elite cricket nation are done and dusted.

The excellence of the Australian bowling attack has been non existent since Sandpaper
 
I would say Australia.

The demise that Pakistan has gone through last decade, the expectation isn't high and it has turned Pakistan team in to a mid tier team. No one will be that much surprise if Pakistan loses to Zimbabwe or Bangladesh.

But Australia has a higher standard which it always maintained. Even if by unfortunate event, goes down to the level of pak team of current scenario, it would still be a disappointment whilst for Pakistan, it is an okish scenario.

That tells you about level of difference between the team in long term history. Due to expectations of maintaining the high standards, aus team will always be in more crisis.
 
The excellence of the Australian bowling attack has been non existent since Sandpaper

They have been negated by a top class batting unit. They would still smash other Asian sides and West Indies at home.
 
They have been negated by a top class batting unit. They would still smash other Asian sides and West Indies at home.

To be very honest, their attack right now looks to be very Lyon dependant. The pacers cannot reverse the ball like they were doing before Sandpaper. NZ looked a much better bowling unit in UAE as well.
 
In my opinion Pakistan is facing bigger crisis as the team is totally dependent on Amir. Grit in batting is also not seen. Guess they should bring back Fawad Alam. I think he was good but don’t know what happened to him. Guess Shazad is also serving a suspension. Lack of good bowlers has exposed the weakness of batting . Need some solid batsman.

Australia should be back once Smith, Warner are back
 
Short term Pakistan is worse off, Aus still have some class players but I worry for their next generations. Pakistan will still keep producing as there's only one sport to choose.

Long term I think Aus are going to struggle with due to competition with other sports and players throwing away technique for T20s.
 
Pakistan, and it’s going to get wider.

First - I don’t judge AUS based on this on going series against IND, who has been outstanding in every discipline of the game. In a “Kohli dependent” team, if No. 3 scores 3 hundreds in 3.5 Test, it’ll be difficult to manage for any team.... on top of that Indian Test attack is most balanced now, only behind ENG in ENG & SAF in SENA countries. On top of that Aussies were shell shocked and missing their best 2 batsmen, 3 of their starters, including Captain & deputy.

Most of Australia’s crisis is temporary and sudden - it’ll be solved in due course of time. Still it’s an young squad and there is enough quality, just missing couple of top players to guide the youngsters. I actually still put Aussies among my WC favourites. Australia is down now, but not in decline - lost few players after WC 2015, then lost few key players at prime for off field issues. And, I feel they lost focus on their priority (FC Sheild & Test cricket) to pamper big bash; surely CA will rectify their stand and come back stronger. It’s not new for Australia to suffer temporary slump, they were as poor in mid 80s for few years, but came back to rule world for next quarter century - will do it again. There is still enough talent, depth & passion left for Aussies not to come back strong. My hunch is by 2023 WC, they’ll be again among top 3 teams in all 3 formats.

For PAK, first myth is it’s a young team - even if I consider official age. In terms of game experience it might be young because PCB’s policy of debuting players too late. The biggest challenge I see is that the factory is not functioning- hardly any U25 player is performing and the best performers are 30+ bunch, apart from Babar. There is no leadership quality, neither any backup plan and I don’t see how PAK players can regroup themselves under current Captain. Another alarming issue is, this is probably the first PAK team in my memory whose bowling is at pet with batting and way, way behind India. If that last line doesn’t ring a crisis alarm, I am not sure what else we’re are waiting for?
 
Pakistan has been in transition for the longest time. I've been seeing the transition and poor selection excuse from the time I first came across this forum back in 2008/9.

E.g. When Pakistan lost to NZ, everyone wanted Fakhar Zaman to open in the test side. He was the "missing link" and had the power to solve most problems. Once he started failing at the top, his position was a problem and him batting at 6 could turn around the team's performance. Then when he failed in one single innings at 6, he is being called a "passenger" by the same folks who had him in their first choice XI before the series.
 
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Pakistan has been in transition for the longest time. I've been seeing the transition and poor selection excuse from the time I first came across this forum back in 2008/9.

E.g. When Pakistan lost to NZ, everyone wanted Fakhar Zaman to open in the test side. He was the "missing link" and had the power to solve most problems. Once he started failing at the top, his position was a problem and him batting at 6 could solve all the issues. Then when he failed in one single innings at 6, he is being called a "passenger" by the same folks who had him in their first choice XI before the series.

Thats true and this includes me as well , i wanted him to open for pakistan despite his poor technique and flaws. I thought that he would be able to learn as he is a sensible fellow with positive intent , he played well in his first test in UAE but I guess that opening in test cricket isnt for every body. There is a hope now on shan masood , pakistans next test assignment is in october this year and I am willing to give imam a few more chances if he is willing to work hard on his game.
 
Thats true and this includes me as well , i wanted him to open for pakistan despite his poor technique and flaws. I thought that he would be able to learn as he is a sensible fellow with positive intent , he played well in his first test in UAE but I guess that opening in test cricket isnt for every body. There is a hope now on shan masood , pakistans next test assignment is in october this year and I am willing to give imam a few more chances if he is willing to work hard on his game.
Definitely a better way of looking at things bruv.

I see a lot of pressure to remove Yasir from the squad, for Shadab Khan. I feel its absolutely absurd. Yasir is a poor batsman and he must be forced to take his batting more seriously.
But replacing him with Shadab or Bilal makes no sense to me when both are not a patch on Yasir. Even if say Shadab replaces him - one poor series with the bat and a few expensive spells and there would be a question mark on why he was chosen to play tests in the first place. Eventually, it will not help Yasir, nor will it help Shadab.
 
I've not seen a good Pakistani cricket team ever since I started watching cricket. This is not a crisis. A crisis would be if we started winning all of a sudden.

This isn't wrist slitting etc, I'm still hopeful that we can play okay cricket from time to time but honestly we've not produced any world class talent in some time. Be it batting or bowling and the few that emerged were immediately lost to betting related activities.
 
None of the two are in crisis.

Australia fielded a B team against India without the following 5 of their top players:-

1. Smith
2. Warner
3. Bancroft
4. Maxwell
5. Pattinson


As for Pakistan they are mighty and full of talent but going through a transition phase hence struggling. Their coach is quite bad too. They would have done much better under Shastri. Lion hearted leader for a lion hearted team is what works.
 
The excellence of the Australian bowling attack has been non existent since Sandpaper

Their pacers have been blunted by one very good test batsman, simply the difference between the two sides. Someone who can bat for days and kill any assistance the new ball offers. Otherwise the teams have been on par.

Plus Australia has a high quality domestic structure, excellent work ethic backed by good coaching through the ranks. A set up like this will create good players, definitely a class apart from what the Pakistani domestic system churns out.

I expect this thread to get a bum around the WC2019 time.
 
None of the two are in crisis.

Australia fielded a B team against India without the following 5 of their top players:-

1. Smith
2. Warner
3. Bancroft
4. Maxwell
5. Pattinson


As for Pakistan they are mighty and full of talent but going through a transition phase hence struggling. Their coach is quite bad too. They would have done much better under Shastri. Lion hearted leader for a lion hearted team is what works.

I see what you did there :genius
 
Australia's batting has been floundering for a while now and in this series, it hash it rock bottom. To add to that, their bowling, post ball tampering, has been average at best.

Pakistan still have a world class bowling attack and although the batting is struggling, there are a handful that has at times outbatted their home counterparts in SA. That is something to take home and work on. Pakistan will finish 2019 in a much better place than Australia.
 
Pakistan are in a worse situation. Australia still have a few world class players in all formats. We don't have many world class players and our players are mentally weak.

Australian domestic cricket is stronger and I'm sure they will make the relevant changes to improve domestic cricket. We aren't making much changes to our awful system.
 
Australia.
Pakistan has lost 3-0 to many teams since Akram’s time
 
Pakistan is in a bigger crisis, which the administrators are surprisingly(or not) completely oblivious off.

Australia crisis is more temporary which only happened because of the ball tampering scandle. I predict that they’ll be back to their normal self within another year.

With Pakistan however there a deep structural and culture issues which don’t look like they will be going away anytime soon and if we don’t take action we will be lagging behind all the big nations for a very long time.
 
None of the two are in crisis.

Australia fielded a B team against India without the following 5 of their top players:-

1. Smith
2. Warner
3. Bancroft
4. Maxwell

5. Pattinson


As for Pakistan they are mighty and full of talent but going through a transition phase hence struggling. Their coach is quite bad too. They would have done much better under Shastri. Lion hearted leader for a lion hearted team is what works.

You serious bhaijaan :))))
 
Pakistan. I am not sure why this is even a question.

Australia are simply going through a phase. Their bowling attack is still excellent, and they have two top batsmen unavailable. After they return, Australia would still thrash most teams in the world.

Across all conditions, in spite of not producing elite batsmen for a while, Australia is still among the top 3-4 teams.

Considering their domestic structure and sporting culture, it is only a matter of time before they start producing great players again.

On the other hand, Pakistan has been mediocre for over 15 years now and have been periodically getting worse and worse. For decades, our fast bowling kept us afloat but now it is nothing but mediocre as well.

The domestic cricket is a joke, there is no international cricket at home and the major teams are not interested in playing long series with us. Their is not a single elite star in the country, and the gap between us and the other top teams is only widening.

Not only are we producing mediocre players, we are also producing players with no personality and charisma. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and we are in terminal decline.

Pakistan cricket has suffered the same fate as Caribbean cricket - we are borderline minnows and our days as an elite cricket nation are done and dusted.

That is precisely the reason it is a bigger crisis for Australia, although one they will overcome. Pakistan is no longer a serious cricket nation, so how can it be considered a crisis?

The domestic game has not been made a serious commercial venture, which in turn has led to lack of professionalism, and with cricket itself not really considered a major world sport it's difficult to see any avenue for progress as the game is virtually a closed shop monopolised by the few countries that do take it seriously.
 
You serious bhaijaan :))))

The real team that is going to face a crisis is SA. AB is gone, Amla is in Asad mode, Faf is in permanent decline due to age, three pretty average top order batters in first XI, an inconsistent WK, declining Steyn and Philander, etc. One good thing that seems to be going there way is that their fast bowling depth.
 
None of the two are in crisis.

Australia fielded a B team against India without the following 5 of their top players:-

1. Smith
2. Warner
3. Bancroft
4. Maxwell
5. Pattinson


As for Pakistan they are mighty and full of talent but going through a transition phase hence struggling. Their coach is quite bad too. They would have done much better under Shastri. Lion hearted leader for a lion hearted team is what works.

Really, are you trolling or what? Bancroft averages 30 and pattison hasn't played for couple of years he missed all the tours in that time. Maxwell is not yet an established test player. Come on
 
Australia.

We were missing our second best batsman in Haris Sohail.

We were also missing a solid opening option such as Ahmed Shehzad.

Our bowling did well in the first test. Our selection for the next test was garbage.

Australia has major issues, their main bowler Starc is toothless and their batting looks hopeless without Steve Smith and Warner.
 
Pakistan.

Australia have the short-term excuse of being without Warner and Smith whereas this is the third dismal winter in a row for Pakistan.

Given the trend of last few winters, we'll gnash our teeth for a bit over selections, strategy and the form of senior players until we hear the PSL jingle again.

We'll distract ourselves for a month with a circus of poor quality cricket (don't kid yourselves - the batting standards are a joke and seniors will continue to hog the spotlight), and all will be forgotten until our problems are exposed once again when we return to international duty.
 
None of the two are in crisis.

Australia fielded a B team against India without the following 5 of their top players:-

1. Smith
2. Warner
3. Bancroft
4. Maxwell
5. Pattinson


As for Pakistan they are mighty and full of talent but going through a transition phase hence struggling. Their coach is quite bad too. They would have done much better under Shastri. Lion hearted leader for a lion hearted team is what works.

Also missing from Australia side are John, jack, James and jesse
 
Australia. Rarely have they seen these lows in their entire cricketing history. I am sure they must be really worried.

Pakistan have been an ordinary Test team for close to two decades now, so there is no such thing as crisis. Nobody expects them to win an overseas series in SA and Australia. They never managed to do that even with their strongest sides in the 80s and 90s. Bowling used to be our strength which is on rapid decline now. Our best bet is to keep winning in UAE to keep ourselves relevant.
 
Pakistan cricket is going the same way as did hockey and squash. Unfortunately the government has lot more issues to look for than sport so no surprise.
 
Exactly 3 months or 89 days - what does PP thinks now?
 
What crisis is aus going through?? They have been winning and their two best players are yet to come.
 
None. Pak certainly isn't facing any crisis, they are going in with a mediocre team that might do well but can;t go all the way.
 
Pakistan isn't in crisis. The mediocrity has been around for so long that it has become rather usual than rare occurrence.
 
No crisis for Pakistan. Crisis means when there are too many good players and you can only select a few. Pakistan has a team of all mediocre players. Don't expect Pakistan to steamroll others in the WC. NZ whitewashed us 5-0. India and Bnagladesh beat us in Asia Cup. SA beat us 3-2. Aus whitewashed us 5-0. It's not crisis, It's just a mediocre team, that's all.
 
Australia are on the rise. I told ya'll months ago not to write them off.
 
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