I thought, I won’t carry on this post, because someone is trying to bring personal insult because of his disliking of a National, & there are enough evidence in PP of that. I am being leveled as anti-Indian because of my post & against Gavasker or ST, which is absolutely wrong. Rather it’s exactly opposite – the way Indian media & posters try to portrait these 2 batsmen are far from truth, particularly Gavasker on his heroics against WI & AUS attack. I have lots of post for many Indian cricketers & I never wrote anything based on Nationals or race, rather Kapil, MS, Virat, Sehwag, Azhar & Kumble are probably some of my most favorite Indian cricketers.
First of all thank you for your answer.Secondly it was you who brought personal issues on this by calling me a "Troll" and saying you will "Put Me In My Place".I believe you are anti India,you hold a bias againist Indians and thats my personal assessment of you.I didnt call you names like "Troll".
Now coming to Gavaskar and Tendulkar,pick up any media from any country and they portray these two in pretty much the same way as other media.
Its the most oft repeated excuse to hide bias by saying,"See i dont like xyz but its not bias because i am friends with A who is of same nationality or race etc.
Here the topic was the “better batsman” between Greg & Gavasker, arguably tow best batsmen of 70s, it’s not about the how good they were (without doubt, both were ATGs), rather it was about a direct contest between the 2 greats as overall batsman. Personally, I am clear about my stand on this – in Test, it was very close between Greg & Sunny, but I ‘ll pick Greg marginally for the quality of this innings; while in ODI, it’s not even a contest; therefore as an overall batsman, Greg comes a head of Sunny.
If you have said that Greg was better than Sunny because of ODIs no one would have argued.But you went on to trash Sunny's achievements by saying he made merry versus avg attacks etc etc.Lot of which were lies.
Because of Indian posters often gets offended on anything written against their heroes, I decided not to post here. It’s not about India bias, I have seen Indian posters, even Cjohshila praising my post when it’s favoring their arguments or supporting India, which doesn’t make good taste of blogging. And, here I can see several Indian posters trying to instigate insult, just from fellow feeling, which again is not good taste.
People who disagree with your views will post counter views.Thats the beauty of a forum.No one is here just to be your yes boys.I have praised posts of anyone which i like,doesnt matter who that is.And no one is instigating anything.People are posting their counters.Perhaps you are not used to people countering your opinions with facts and hence find it "not in good taste".
I posted here as someone tried to get Gavasker mileage on his heroics against WI & AUS – for which, my small post was insulted as “trash”, which is far from the truth. I can answer his post by post with my original posts, which were supported by couple of Indian posters as well, Unfortunately, Cjohila tried to off set that , by saying that, - So this is your answer to how is trashed your so called great post on how Gavaskar is NOT A GREAT PLAYER . This is absolutely lie, because I never said & the discussion point never was if Gavasker was Great player or not, that’s beyond doubt.
Since you have misplaced a few things here and there are the posts
Greg was only 2nd to Viv in his generation in Test & behind Viv & Zed in ODI. He 'll make my AUS all time XI at 4, with Bradman at 3 & Ponting at 5.
Chappel didnt play in India.Didnt tour WI after 1973.Never faced the 4 great spinners of India .So much for being the 2nd best test batsman of his era.
Try "which WI & AUS" Gavasker mastered - I have few posts on this.
Which were thoroughly trashed by others in the forum.
You declared Greg Chappel as the 2nd best batsman of that era i contested that saying he never played in WI after 73 and never played the 4 great spinners never played in India so he is far from the second best batsman of his era.That has got nothing to do with Gavaskar.Other batters of that era like Miandad,Boycott,Gavaskar, faced far varied and difficult conditions.But you with your bias againist India went onto attack Gavaskar.
You posts on how Gavaskar and Tendulkar are inferior batsman have been many times debunked.
My post was countering 2 fundamental claims – 1. Gavasker’s greatness against WI, AUS & Greg’s absence against WI after 1973. I think, I have explained both those in the linked post. Why, I rate Greg over Gavasker – I repeat again – statistically, what we see of Gavasker in Test 10K+ runs @51+) is inflated for his mammoth series’ against sub-standard teams – WI of 1978, AUS of 1977 & 1979. It’s impossible to calculate the net impact, replacing those teams with full strength sides, but those 3 Series (I leave the ENG one) earned Gavasker 2000+ runs with 11 hundreds @ 65+.
What we see of Greg in Test (7K+ runs @ ~53 in 88 Tests), is massively under pitched – because of his missing about 30-35 Tests at his prime between 1977 to 1981 - 5 against WI, 12 Against ENG (he didn’t play 1981 Ashes), 11 against IND, & few against NZ & PAK. Replacing those with his Packer runs ‘ll be miss-leading, but, the way Greg played in those Days, probably we are missing about 3K+ Test runs @ 60+ & around 12 centuries, with few doubles. Hypothetically, that takes his career over 10K Test runs at around 55-56 with 35+ Test centuries
.
Lets talk facts and not hypothesis.So this part of your post has little meaning.Because i can say Chappell would have been a bunny on Indian turning tracks againist the quatret and he would similarly struggle in WI.And that would be a hypothesis as well.
We can simply neglect all these by putting straight stats – 88 Tests, 7K+ @ 53 with 24 hundreds at a better SR over 124 Tests, 10K+ runs at 51.12 with 34 hundreds (both having 4 doubles) – but that ‘ll never tell what a wonderful player of spin Sunny was. On contrary, stats doesn’t tell the value of Greg’s runs & the quality of his stroke play – he was more complete player than Viv & on his day, was destructive as well. If I put the ODI stats in the mix, OVERALL, it’s not even a contest.
Greg being better than Viv is your own opinion.Also as i said if you had only said Greg was better than Sunny because of ODIs we wouldnt be arguing.
Coming to the “facts & lies” – I am being insulted by cherry picking my post. It’s easy to point figure by picking selective lines, rather than looking at the context. I won’t go to details, but clarify few of those allegations –
1. Gavasker debuted in 1971 against WI with 774 runs in 4 Tests, against WI, which failed to win about 15 Tests (could be 15, could be 25, no need to search Cricinfo, I am taking smaller number) in that period, one of the reason was Sobers at 35-36 was their opening bowler & hardly any of the bowlers of that series had long career.
Care to show where i even discussed that 1971 series?
2. In 1974, Gavasker indeed was injured for 3 Tests against Roberts, but that still explains that he didn’t face Roberts for most part of the series & averaged around 30. It’s more likely that a prolonged Series would have dented his stats – we can disagree, no issues.
You said WI came with only couple of bowlers and Gavaskar went AOWL.Didnt you?Why are you changing the statement now.You earlier statement was lie and hence it was exposed.
3. Against NZ, Cjoshila is “Not telling the truth”, my post had the info, which Indian posters missed – Gavasker struggled in 1981 against NZ & he did score a hundred in 1976 (which took his series average to ~40), but the missing point is, Hadlee didn’t play that match – my post wasn’t only about NZ, a little qualifier was there as well – Richard Hadlee.
Gavaskar did score runs againist Hadlee in India.Now you highly value Greg Chappel's runs vs WI in AUS(Greg's home ground)but believe Gavaskar's runs vs Hadlee in India are inferior?You only talked about One test in Auckland and 1981 series,conveniently leaving out the home series in India there by creating a myth that Gavaskar only scored a century againist NZ when Hadlee was missing.
4. Statistically, Imran did play 5 Tests in 1978, missing just 1, but he was struggling BIG time with injury – 1st 3 Tests bowled in total 28, 8 & 15 overs. One should understand what is lie & statistical lie
Again some lies.First start with Imran was mostly injured to Imran was struggling with injury and give number of overs with no context.
1st tes Imran bowled 28 overs.Because India batted only once.He took 4 for 53.He bowled the most out of any fast bowler in that test in a single innings.Gavaskar scored 88 in that innings
He did struggle with injury in the 3rd test match 2nd innings and then missed the 4th test.
He came back to bowl in the 5th and 6th test where he bowled 43 and 56 overs which you conveniently missed.And Gavaskar scored a 166 in one of those tests.
5. Regarding WI tour of IND in 1978, I categorically mentioned that Marshall indeed was part of that team, but he was a 20 years old debutante – it doesn’t happen that the Malcom Marshall that world know by 1983 would be dropped twice from a side, missing it’s 1st team. Holder & Clarke also did play few Tests, but they made it to the WI side because Roberts, Holding, Garner, Croft & Daniel went to WSC. Eden was the zenith of that series for him, when Norbert Phillips was given the new ball over Marshall & 33 years old Holder.
In your earlier statement you said only 20 year old Marshall played and there were no Holder or Clarke.Which were exposed as a lie.Now you have issues with the Eden Pitch and Holder's age.Clutching to straws here,are we?
6. Regarding the 1983 Series, Gavaskar did score 505, one of the innings was 236*, another one in 90s & one 121 (?) – & these 2 (Test with Century) were drawn Tests, BUT, does it tell other side of the coin – in a 6 Test Series a batsman’s scores are 0, 7, 121, 15, 90, 1, 12, 3, 0, 20, 236* - taking out the 2 drawn Tests, Gavaskar’s Series stands at 4 Tests, 8 innings 133 @ 16.63, with 1 innings of 90 & couple of Ducks.
I say take out those ducks and the one run he scored(taking out 3 innings as you did) and Gavaskar has 504 test runs in 8 innings @72.
7. Gavaskar was in horrible form in 1982-83 WI tour, 1979-80 NZ & AUS tour – which indeed is true; BUT, there is a coincidence that in those series Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Garner, Lillee, Pascoe, Hogg, Hadlee & Chatfield hardly missed a Test. But, In between, he did found his form back facing ENG at home & Srilanka at Madras, it’s also true even if he is Indian or I am Bangladeshi.
So Gavaskar struggling in those test series was indeed more than his inferior batting ability and inability to play good bowlers.I think Gavaskar struggled even in the Ranji and County during that time.I dont have the stats as i cant find them but i can request someone to send them over if he has them.Sri Lanka were minnows then and againist England he struggled throughout and managed to score 1 century in between in Bangalore.He was hardly in form.
I can carry on, but my post in this thread was not to discuss between Greg & Gavaskar – it’s like CR vs Messi debate & I stand behind my logic, which other people might not agree, I do honor their judgement. The debate was the “Runs scored by Gavaskar against fearsome WI & AUS, while Greg never touring WI after 1973” & I tried to put a “historical precedence”. This thread went this far, because someone tried to distract by putting my post as trash, which wasn’t the case.
This thread went this far because someone wanted to put me in my place and pass me off as a troll.And you post that i debunked contained many lies which were exposed and lies are as good as trash.I believe you havent addressed any of the "Historical Anecdotes of Gavaskar's Personality" two of which were total fabrication.And some other issues.
Btw Gavaskar did struggle in WI in one series in but still scored a hundred.But Chappell didnt even tour WI post 1973.Gavaskar did struggle in AUS in 1979-80 but Chappell didnt even tour India or face the spin quatret ever.Thats the truth
And, for the Indian posters here – never judge the post of the color of the flag or whether you like the content of not – judge it by the logic & what the post is indicating. I am sure, all of you have read my post in Gavaskar-Boycott thread, & still trying to support an allegation, which doesn’t exist. Rather, you guys should read CJ’s post on Bangladesh cricket & in general Bangladeshis. I never post on something that I don’t believe or back (or like) & I never identify race or Nationals – probably some of my bitterest posts are against Bangladesh’s Test status & Pakistan’s domestic cricket, still I am sure, lots of Pakistani & Bangladeshi posters do read my post, even if it’s lengthy.
I hope, this long post is read by posters who were instigating for my answer, which I decided not to address further initially.
Exactly.People judge by quality,content,facts of the post.And you have left little doubt in my mind that you have a bias againist India.Its not your flag but your thoughts.
Also do read my posts about Bangladesh freedom struggle and 1971 Bengali genocide.Let me tell you something,my family originally migrated from East Bengal in 1946 and many of them stayed back in then East Pakistan's.Many of them were killed in 1971.They came to India as refugees and then returned back.Most of them left in 1977 under Zia regime because of obvious reasons and the last of them left in 1989.So i share a relation a bonding with Bangladesh.
I do make fun of trolls on this forum who big up BD players to shut them up.You know why?Because other posters use one word"Bengalis" to address them all and make fun of them.And i am a Bengali.And i dont like that word being made fun of.
I also have issues with illegal migration from Bangladesh.Why?Because it puts strain on my country's economy and also creates various law and order situation.Also due the fact that these migrants give all people of East Bengal origin a bad name.
YES, i do have a issue with Bangladeshis and that is that you people have forgotten being BENGALIS.East Bengal chose to separate in 1947 on basis of religion,forgetting the Bengali identity.But in 1971 when you needed help we stood beside you as rock,and no it was not a favour,it was only a brother helping another.But then Zia Ur Rehman came then Ershad then 1990 anti hindu riots in BD.Where was the ordinary Bangladeshi?Why no support for the Bengali Hindu?This is a issue i will always have with BD.But then its your country you know whats best for it.
But that doesnt mean i have a hatred towards the birth place of my ancestors.
Sorry to have you bored with my personal history but few things needed to be told striaght.
[MENTION=139973]carrom_ball[/MENTION] [MENTION=77677]IgnitedMind[/MENTION]
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has graciously replied and i have countered.
. But it's still one of the greatest innings of all time
He never had to face Pakistani reverse swing at its zenith in early 80s. But carry on, SENA players are never scrutinized like their Asian counterparts. 
