Why are Pakistanis not good at soccer? Is it physical weakness?

[Stewie]

Let’s not get into no proper fundraising mf, structure and training excuses. Those are there, sure, but is there a deeper problem here? Look at all these Asian underdogs who have come up leaps and bounds and challenged the traditional power houses from Europe and Latin America.. why is it that we are nowhere close to even mounting a serious challenge at qualification?

Some people said we are physically not strong enough, and I feel there might be some truth to it.. what do you guys think?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Let’s not get into no proper fundraising mf, structure and training excuses. Those are there, sure, but is there a deeper problem here? Look at all these Asian underdogs who have come up leaps and bounds and challenged the traditional power houses from Europe and Latin America.. why is it that we are nowhere close to even mounting a serious challenge at qualification?

Some people said we are physically not strong enough, and I feel there might be some truth to it.. what do you guys think?

Playing professional football in Pakistan does not guarantee any sort of financial security, either by the state or by the body which runs it in Pakistan so even very good footballers do not pursue it as a full time career because at the end of the day, every male adult from middle class to working class needs to sustain himself and his family. The prospect of mouths to feed via a fringe sport (Football) is just not entirely practical in the Pakistani society at the moment.

Couple that with lack of infrastructure, extreme curroption in PFF, lack of recognition among the general population, and something that doesn't resonate with the framework of society; football will forever be as how it is right now (at least for the forseeable future).

You can only produce athletes when sample size playing the sport increases and based on the above hurdles I don't see that happening.

 

[Pakistanian]

This is not true and this has been discussed before. If it was physical weakness then India wouldn't be ranked ahead of us and Afghanistan.

 

[Pakistanian]

We don't qualify for the world cup cause cricket and hockey are more popular and recieve more govt and private support as opposed to soccer.

Japan almost beating Belgium and Korea beating Germany puts this racist "asians are weak" stereotype to rest.

 

[Third_Umpire]

South Americans (of non-european descent), Mexicans, Asians, Arabs etc aren't necessarily that much more physically superior than Pakistanis, yet they have world class teams. Of course there is a gap between us and Europeans, Africans, etc. But that can be overcome by the right training, nutrition, infrastructure...so unfortunately it does come down to support for the game.

I'm not hopefully of a turn around anytime soon. We are letting hockey slip, which is our national sport, and one that we once dominated. Forget about taking up something entirely new like soccer.

 

[Thomaskutty]

The subcontinent's ineptitude at soccer is puzzling. Particularly when you think that soccer is the least resource intensive sport and all you need is a ball to kick around, it would be perfect for the demographics of developing countries to excel at. Like latin america, for example.

 

[UP]

No interest. Just like no interest in Cricket with South American countries.

 

[Varun]

Because nobody cares about soccer here.

Cricket is where the action's at.

 

[Pakistanian]

I hope Pakistan makes it to the world cup and pulls a few major upsets to end this discussion.

 

[BlackShadow]

The subcontinent's ineptitude at soccer is puzzling. Particularly when you think that soccer is the least resource intensive sport and all you need is a ball to kick around, it would be perfect for the demographics of developing countries to excel at. Like latin america, for example.

Itni garmi mein kaun bhagega 90 minute? No wonder the only place where soccer's popularity rivals Cricket's in India are colder mountain or more pleasant coastal areas.

 

[TM Riddle]

Itni garmi mein kaun bhagega 90 minute? No wonder the only place where soccer's popularity rivals Cricket's in India are colder mountain or more pleasant coastal areas.

Same argument African countries k liye bhi apply hota hai.
And yet they are far ahead of us in this aspect.

 

[Greenstorm]

Itni garmi mein kaun bhagega 90 minute? No wonder the only place where soccer's popularity rivals Cricket's in India are colder mountain or more pleasant coastal areas.

Garmi mein hockey khel saktey hain tou ftbl kuen nahi ?

 

[BlackShadow]

Same argument African countries k liye bhi apply hota hai.
And yet they are far ahead of us in this aspect.

Africans are genetically superior athletes. Plus they have a cultural affinity to the sport, we don't.

 

[TM Riddle]

Africans are genetically superior athletes. Plus they have a cultural affinity to the sport, we don't.

Then why aren't they good at hockey like someone else pointed out?

 

[Greenstorm]

Football is the second most popular game in Pakistan after cricket. Only thing which is keeping us back in football is lack of proper facilities. There is no professional football league so there is no incentive for young kids to pursue their dreams.

 

[Sidilicious]

Culture and money.

Football is getting more popular in South Asia. You will see the impact in the next 20 years

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Africans are genetically superior athletes. Plus they have a cultural affinity to the sport, we don't.

How come Korea and Japan can produce decent teams then? I wonder if people even think before they give these answers? As I said previously, in games like rugby or heavyweight boxing, there might be some truth to it, but football is not a sport where you need massive bulk. Lack of enthusiasm and professionalism is the real answer, at least in Pakistan. They still haven't got a professional cricket set up, can't see them doing much in the way of soccer for a long time yet.

 

[Sidilicious]

How come Korea and Japan can produce decent teams then? I wonder if people even think before they give these answers? As I said previously, in games like rugby or heavyweight boxing, there might be some truth to it, but football is not a sport where you need massive bulk. Lack of enthusiasm and professionalism is the real answer, at least in Pakistan. They still haven't got a professional cricket set up, can't see them doing much in the way of soccer for a long time yet.

I will also add that it does not necessarily hold true for boxing or rugby.

Nations such as India and Pakistan are racially very diverse. In fact, even medium sized nations (lets say greater than 10 mn people) that are not diverse have enough genetic diversity that there will be enough people with massive bulk.

Its always down to culture and money (infrastructure, remuneration etc). Japan does ok in rugby (for a sport mainly played by 5-6 nations), and Germany is nowhere.

Had the brits left more of a rugby legacy in India, Pakistan and India would have been participating in the rugby World Cup.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I will also add that it does not necessarily hold true for boxing or rugby.

Nations such as India and Pakistan are racially very diverse. In fact, even medium sized nations (lets say greater than 10 mn people) that are not diverse have enough genetic diversity that there will be enough people with massive bulk.

Its always down to culture and money (infrastructure, remuneration etc). Japan does ok in rugby (for a sport mainly played by 5-6 nations), and Germany is nowhere.

Had the brits left more of a rugby legacy in India, Pakistan and India would have been participating in the rugby World Cup.

I said that as a caveat, I don't know about India, but Pakistan has some regions with pretty hefty populations. Punjab, Kashmir and KPK at least, don't know enough about Balochistan or Sindh to make a judgement. But it keeps getting brought up so I guess some people are speaking of their own backgrounds wherever that may be.

 

[imrankhannsu]

First of all its ironic that despite being a major source of footballs, Pakistan cant qualify

There are a number of reasons Pakistan and sub continent teams dont qualify but the main two:

- There is no major culture of football in the country. People's main focus is cricket.

- There is minimal investment in football which does not help develop players.

 

[hadi123]

Because you need to be extremely fit for football and Pakistani diet/culture doesn't go well with it. Also I think people are not willing to dive and get dirty for tackles etc

 

[TM Riddle]

Because you need to be extremely fit for football and Pakistani diet/culture doesn't go well with it. Also I think people are not willing to dive and get dirty for tackles etc

Bhai Yar this region has produced games like Kabaddi and Kho Kho in which the participants are far more likelier to get dirty with their shirts torn.

And I dont think diet has anything to do with it either since both India and Pakistan have been hockey heavyweights in the past.

It's just the lack of interest from general public and paucity of funds as well as absence of a proper infrastructure.
Rest all are pretty lame arguments.

 

[Varun]

Culture and money.

Football is getting more popular in South Asia. You will see the impact in the next 20 years

I wonder how often this was repeated 20 years ago. And 20 years prior to that.

 

[the Great Khan]

infrastructure and money..end of..

 

[khan-92]

Maybe a Brazilian coach will make them a better side https://www.geo.tv/latest/192636-brazilian-coach-jose-antonio-nogueira-arrives-in-karachi

 

[Sidilicious]

I wonder how often this was repeated 20 years ago. And 20 years prior to that.

Though you have a fair point, 20 years ago, India was just starting the whole decentralisation program.

Money is flowing in now. By 2038 WC, I expect India to be in the third round and in the contention for WC spot
1. No. of spots for Asia now become 8
2. India is currently ranked 12th in Asia, though thats because we have been in good form and have played some weaker teams. We are more like 16th in reality.
3. But there is an improvement curve in terms on infrastructure and football becoming a viable career for upcoming generations. I would expect to be ranked 5th-10th in the next 20 years in Asia.
4. That would translate to making it to the final round of asian qualification for WC, and hopefully a spot in the WC.

 

[Syed1]

Its not about physicality... this is not the 1950s where the more physical team will win. Football is a sport of technique and finesse and inability to realize this is perhaps why Pakistan is no where near qualification. Sure you can run full tilt for 90 minutes but if you are like an uncoordinated baboon with the ball at your feet then you won't be winning many matches.


I also don't subscribe to the idea that football isn't very popular sport in Pakistan. In fact it is easily the second or third popular sport after cricket and arguably boxing. Hockey ranks a distant fourth (which can be seen from our performance)

Go to Lyari area of Karachi today and you would find nearly every house sporting a Brazilian flag and they would be watching Brazil matches in the WC as if Pakistan is playing.


I think the biggest hindrance to Pakistan's growth in the sport is lack of astroturf grounds, improper coaching and no funding for footballers.


I hope PTI wins elections and focus on sports as well since that is a sure-shot way of improving your country's image. Pakistan football needs atleast 50 astroturf grounds and academies in each city like Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, Sialkot, Faisalabad, Pindi, Peshawar, Quetta, Gwadar etc. We need to send a whole contingent of coaches to Brazil and to get training for coaching. We also need to have contracts for footballers that ensure they are well paid and can focus on their sport without financial burden.

 

[Major]

Hard ball cricket is a sport that could be learned at later age. Why? Becuase you end up playing soo much tape ball in the streets of Pakistan that when you make the swtich you have already learned alot of the basics.

Football doesnt have any such substitute. All the great players of football had to join good club at a young age from where they learn the sport. Kids in Pakistan dont think about joining clubs at the age of 12 or 13. Plus, there arn't any good recognized football clubs for young kids to learn and play.

Its not about technique or physical abilities.

The reason why pakistan is good at cricekt is becuase of tape ball. At the age of 12 or 13 we all pick up tape ball and start playing and practicing that when guys like Shadab decide to play club cricket, they have already learned how to bat and bowl now they try to achieve the next level.

Football isn't like tbat

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bhai Yar this region has produced games like Kabaddi and Kho Kho in which the participants are far more likelier to get dirty with their shirts torn.

And I dont think diet has anything to do with it either since both India and Pakistan have been hockey heavyweights in the past.

It's just the lack of interest from general public and paucity of funds as well as absence of a proper infrastructure.
Rest all are pretty lame arguments.

Needs to be repeated again and again it seems until it finally registers.

 

[Syed1]

Hard ball cricket is a sport that could be learned at later age. Why? Becuase you end up playing soo much tape ball in the streets of Pakistan that when you make the swtich you have already learned alot of the basics.

Football doesnt have any such substitute. All the great players of football had to join good club at a young age from where they learn the sport. Kids in Pakistan dont think about joining clubs at the age of 12 or 13. Plus, there arn't any good recognized football clubs for young kids to learn and play.

Its not about technique or physical abilities.

The reason why pakistan is good at cricekt is becuase of tape ball. At the age of 12 or 13 we all pick up tape ball and start playing and practicing that when guys like Shadab decide to play club cricket, they have already learned how to bat and bowl now they try to achieve the next level.

Football isn't like tbat

Most modern day players pick up the sport at the age of 10-12, right about the time when kids in Pakistan start playing tape ball cricket. So you are incorrect about the age part, its just the kids can play tape ball cricket in their gully while for football they need a bigger area and grass so that they do not peel themselves while sliding on the road.

You are right about the lack of academies and coaching.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Its not about physicality... this is not the 1950s where the more physical team will win. Football is a sport of technique and finesse and inability to realize this is perhaps why Pakistan is no where near qualification. Sure you can run full tilt for 90 minutes but if you are like an uncoordinated baboon with the ball at your feet then you won't be winning many matches.


I also don't subscribe to the idea that football isn't very popular sport in Pakistan. In fact it is easily the second or third popular sport after cricket and arguably boxing. Hockey ranks a distant fourth (which can be seen from our performance)

Go to Lyari area of Karachi today and you would find nearly every house sporting a Brazilian flag and they would be watching Brazil matches in the WC as if Pakistan is playing.


I think the biggest hindrance to Pakistan's growth in the sport is lack of astroturf grounds, improper coaching and no funding for footballers.


I hope PTI wins elections and focus on sports as well since that is a sure-shot way of improving your country's image. Pakistan football needs atleast 50 astroturf grounds and academies in each city like Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, Sialkot, Faisalabad, Pindi, Peshawar, Quetta, Gwadar etc. We need to send a whole contingent of coaches to Brazil and to get training for coaching. We also need to have contracts for footballers that ensure they are well paid and can focus on their sport without financial burden.

Good post.

I would add as well, that to play at the international level, long term you need to have very high standard leagues. If you look at Japan, China and India, they are spending a lot of money on foreign stars who are too old for the big leagues, but will bring valuable experience and credibility to the new Asian leagues. Pakistan is a mile away from that, so no one should be surprised if the national team isn't very good.

 

[DeadBall]

Hard ball cricket is a sport that could be learned at later age. Why? Becuase you end up playing soo much tape ball in the streets of Pakistan that when you make the swtich you have already learned alot of the basics.

Football doesnt have any such substitute. All the great players of football had to join good club at a young age from where they learn the sport. Kids in Pakistan dont think about joining clubs at the age of 12 or 13. Plus, there arn't any good recognized football clubs for young kids to learn and play.

Its not about technique or physical abilities.

The reason why pakistan is good at cricekt is becuase of tape ball. At the age of 12 or 13 we all pick up tape ball and start playing and practicing that when guys like Shadab decide to play club cricket, they have already learned how to bat and bowl now they try to achieve the next level.

Football isn't like tbat

True. There is a massive difference in playing in gullys/small fields and playing in a standard size stadium. I have seen many naturally talented players winning trophies on small or indoor grounds but were lost at sea when they went to club level. Football is now an art which should be taught at a professional level from a young age, it is almost impossible (no matter how talented you are) to take to professional football once you pass a certain age.

 

[Syed1]

Needs to be repeated again and again it seems until it finally registers.

Football is substantially more popular in Pakistan than hockey.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Football is substantially more popular in Pakistan than hockey.

I was agreeing with Riddle's dismissal of the diet/physique argument which needs to be de-bunked repeatedly until it sinks home.

 

[Sidilicious]

Though you have a fair point, 20 years ago, India was just starting the whole decentralisation program.

Money is flowing in now. By 2038 WC, I expect India to be in the third round and in the contention for WC spot
1. No. of spots for Asia now become 8
2. India is currently ranked 12th in Asia, though thats because we have been in good form and have played some weaker teams. We are more like 16th in reality.
3. But there is an improvement curve in terms on infrastructure and football becoming a viable career for upcoming generations. I would expect to be ranked 5th-10th in the next 20 years in Asia.
4. That would translate to making it to the final round of asian qualification for WC, and hopefully a spot in the WC.

I wonder how often this was repeated 20 years ago. And 20 years prior to that.

Did a little bit more research on the rankings and come to the following conclusion (yes, I have way too much time!)

- India, is ranked 14th in Asia, but is more like 18th. There are some teams better than India that are ranked lower. That is because the lower rankings are volatile as a 2-3 wins will give you some solid points. So, India is about 18th best in Asia.

Current WC Qualifiers
- 4.5 spots for Asia. Lets call it 4 spots for Asia.
- First round matches between teams ranked 35-48 over a home and away leg. The winner goes to the second. Under current rankings, India qualifies directly for 2nd round
- 2nd round - 40 teams are divided into 8 groups of 5. The winner of each group (8) + 4 runners up (4) make it to the third round (Total 12). India did not make it to final round for 2018 WC.
- 3rd round - 12 teams are divided into 2 groups of 6, play home and away league, and the top 2 teams of each group qualify.

As things stand, I dont expect India to make it to the third round for 2022 (qualitfication starts in 2019)

From 2026 onwards WC qualifiers
- Asia gets 8 spots
- Even if the format remains as it is now, i.e 12 teams in the final round, and 8 of which make it, the question is can India make it to the top 12?

Rate of increase in sponsorship and investment in Football in India is one of the highest in Asia (nearly 54% increase in 2017, expected to be a 100% increase in 2018). There is definitely growth in Asia in general, but India is outdoing most countries.

The question is whether India can sustain this growth over the next 10-15 years, and whether this investment in football will reap rewards. All possible indicators, seem to say that investment in the sports, leads to better results in the long run. So, in 20 years we might not be defo in WC, but should at least get into the last 12 and get challenge for a WC spot till the end.

 

[Syed1]

Did a little bit more research on the rankings and come to the following conclusion (yes, I have way too much time!)

- India, is ranked 14th in Asia, but is more like 18th. There are some teams better than India that are ranked lower. That is because the lower rankings are volatile as a 2-3 wins will give you some solid points. So, India is about 18th best in Asia.

Current WC Qualifiers
- 4.5 spots for Asia. Lets call it 4 spots for Asia.
- First round matches between teams ranked 35-48 over a home and away leg. The winner goes to the second. Under current rankings, India qualifies directly for 2nd round
- 2nd round - 40 teams are divided into 8 groups of 5. The winner of each group (8) + 4 runners up (4) make it to the third round (Total 12). India did not make it to final round for 2018 WC.
- 3rd round - 12 teams are divided into 2 groups of 6, play home and away league, and the top 2 teams of each group qualify.

As things stand, I dont expect India to make it to the third round for 2022 (qualitfication starts in 2019)

From 2026 onwards WC qualifiers
- Asia gets 8 spots
- Even if the format remains as it is now, i.e 12 teams in the final round, and 8 of which make it, the question is can India make it to the top 12?

Rate of increase in sponsorship and investment in Football in India is one of the highest in Asia (nearly 54% increase in 2017, expected to be a 100% increase in 2018). There is definitely growth in Asia in general, but India is outdoing most countries.

The question is whether India can sustain this growth over the next 10-15 years, and whether this investment in football will reap rewards. All possible indicators, seem to say that investment in the sports, leads to better results in the long run. So, in 20 years we might not be defo in WC, but should at least get into the last 12 and get challenge for a WC spot till the end.

Excellent analysis and you definitely seem to have too much time on your hands



However, investment does not automatically mean improved performance. If that was the case the richest countries in the world like US, Japan, China would be qualifying and reaching the business ends of the WC. The reality is US and China didn't even qualify even though they are pumping big money in the sport. Also poor countries like Senegal, Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru etc make it to WC quite regularly. They do not have the money that India has but still are able to compete.

 

[Sidilicious]

Excellent analysis and you definitely seem to have too much time on your hands



However, investment does not automatically mean improved performance. If that was the case the richest countries in the world like US, Japan, China would be qualifying and reaching the business ends of the WC. The reality is US and China didn't even qualify even though they are pumping big money in the sport. Also poor countries like Senegal, Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru etc make it to WC quite regularly. They do not have the money that India has but still are able to compete.

Fair point. And as I said, India is definitely not making it to the WC for another 20 years.

But what can happen, that Indian football participation will be raised. It should at least get raised to a level that they are constantly challenging for the 8 spots in 20 years. A few years they will make it to the WC, a few years they wont. Some teams such as Aus, Korea, Iran and Japan will head and shoulders above the rest, more or less guaranteeing qualification. The tier 2 teams will consist of a group of 10 teams that would have a chance of getting into the WC. India should at least be there in 20 years.

Now, what Columbia and Peru do is what Afghanistan and Pakistan (to a lesser extent; more due to events around 2009) have done in cricket. They have the talent and the interest in the sport that allows them to compete, and in Pakistan's case, beat the best, despite not having the economy or facing issues.

 

[Sidilicious]

Excellent analysis and you definitely seem to have too much time on your hands



However, investment does not automatically mean improved performance. If that was the case the richest countries in the world like US, Japan, China would be qualifying and reaching the business ends of the WC. The reality is US and China didn't even qualify even though they are pumping big money in the sport. Also poor countries like Senegal, Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru etc make it to WC quite regularly. They do not have the money that India has but still are able to compete.

Wa supposed to work from home today.

 

[Pakistanian]

Hard ball cricket is a sport that could be learned at later age. Why? Becuase you end up playing soo much tape ball in the streets of Pakistan that when you make the swtich you have already learned alot of the basics.

Football doesnt have any such substitute. All the great players of football had to join good club at a young age from where they learn the sport. Kids in Pakistan dont think about joining clubs at the age of 12 or 13. Plus, there arn't any good recognized football clubs for young kids to learn and play.

Its not about technique or physical abilities.

The reason why pakistan is good at cricekt is becuase of tape ball. At the age of 12 or 13 we all pick up tape ball and start playing and practicing that when guys like Shadab decide to play club cricket, they have already learned how to bat and bowl now they try to achieve the next level.

Football isn't like tbat

12-13 is pretty late. Most kids start playing sports at 6-7, all the top clubs in Europe recruit 7-8 year old kids into their academies, by 12-13 they already know which of them are gonna go to the pros.

 

[Pakistanian]

Excellent analysis and you definitely seem to have too much time on your hands



However, investment does not automatically mean improved performance. If that was the case the richest countries in the world like US, Japan, China would be qualifying and reaching the business ends of the WC. The reality is US and China didn't even qualify even though they are pumping big money in the sport. Also poor countries like Senegal, Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru etc make it to WC quite regularly. They do not have the money that India has but still are able to compete.

America isn't pumping any money into soccer. It's still largely "pay to play", soccer is a suburburb uppermiddle class white kid sport according to Hope Solo, America's best female soccer player who's won the world cup before.

All American soccer players come from priveleged backgrounds and paid for their own training which is the American way.

 

[Stewie]

Yeah you only make bank in soccer in the US if you make it at the MLS level and that still is not good enough because why would kids want to invest in soccer when they can get free college rides for excelling in Football, basketball and baseball? Even tennis track and field have a better outlook than soccer.

There is no money pumped into soccer in the US.. it’s a myth.. but my point for starting this thread was around the same sort of concept. If it’s the passion and the demand in the elites, because let’s face it, cricket is not a cheap sports and yet we excel at it.. so why not soccer?

I believe the answer is the focus is too much on cricket but I wish we would get our sporting traditions and legacies back by improving on squash, hockey and maybe doing better at soccer along with cricket.. we certainly have enough youth to go around and play these sports.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A few years ago while in Pakistan I played for my local village in regional village cup competition. The ability of some of the players was very good. However the majority were clueless with positioning, passing and finding space in good areas. This was to be expected as it was low level football but the mentality was very strange to see. For some reason the defenders in my team felt kicking the ball as far as they could upfield towards the oppositions goal was something to be proud of.

Football is popular in Pakistan but there is no real structure for young players to progress. The more kids you have playing in organised teams and leagues, the better the national team will be. Domestic cricket in Pakistan is a mess, so football has a very long way to go.

 

[LongHorn]

For some reason the defenders in my team felt kicking the ball as far as they could upfield towards the oppositions goal was something to be proud of.
.

Swedish defenders feel the same way, and yet they are in the last 8 of the World Cup