Why are we giving away Test caps to batsmen with sub-40 averages in first-class cricket?

[ethan hunt]

I'll be the first to admit that our first class system needs major reforms but really why have they started giving away test caps to batmsen who cannot even average 40 in first class cricket .
Now i am not knowledgable about the current crop of first class cricketers but its not like the selectors have a great eye for talent and can pick a diamond from the rough judging by the constant selection of Maqsood .

 

[Buffet]

Selectors job is to not just sort batting or bowling average and then pick based on that. You don't need selectors for that. Many teams have given extended run to players who didn't do that well initially, but had a pretty good record later.

 

[Abdullah719]

Selectors job is to not just sort batting or bowling average and then pick based on that. You don't need selectors for that. Many teams have given extended run to players who didn't do that well initially, but had a pretty good record later.

True... which is why, all things taken into account, one selection stands out for not making any sense at all.

 

[Cric1234]

Aslam Masood Shafiq and Babar all average sub 40 in first class let's hope the selectors get it right because some selections look dodgy and not on merit at least.

 

[DRsohail]

thats why all of them misearably failed..i have never been convinced with shafiq..whatever hype he got....and the story continues for the others like night watch man.golden boy and DaD Dream..

 

[Buffet]

True... which is why, all things taken into account, one selection stands out for not making any sense at all.

I was just defining the role of selectors and not saying that they did the job right.

 

[badsha001]

Fawad Alam says Hi!

 

[Arham_PakFan]

IIRC when Azhar Ali was selected he averaged 35-36 in FC.

Selections should not just be made on numbers alone but it should alse include potential/ceiling,capability and the right attitude.

But that doesn’t mean you pick someone averaging in the early 30’s in FC and has constantly failed in internationals.You pick him when he improves and when he does better.

 

[Cric1234]

IIRC when Azhar Ali was selected he averaged 35-36 in FC.

Selections should not just be made on numbers alone but it should alse include potential/ceiling,capability and the right attitude.

But that doesn’t mean you pick someone averaging in the early 30’s in FC and has constantly failed in internationals.You pick him when he improves and when he does better.

He was averaging high 30s but if I'm not wrong started off as a leg spinner playing as a tailender the improvement he showed got him selected averaging over 40 In FC in the years before being selected.
Masood Aslam haven't shown any improvement neither has Shafiq
Babar is selected on potential due to playing well in limited overs overall its very risky to select 4 players at once who are not guaranteed starters in test cricket based on their performances.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

As others have mentioned Azhar averaged 35 when he was picked

I don’t think the trust in Babar is misplaced, it’s an investment for the future

Sami also did very well in England which shows his potential

There is no defence for Shan


Both Babar and Sami have barely played two seasons of FC people also have to remember that

 

[ethan hunt]

IIRC when Azhar Ali was selected he averaged 35-36 in FC.

Selections should not just be made on numbers alone but it should alse include potential/ceiling,capability and the right attitude.

But that doesn’t mean you pick someone averaging in the early 30’s in FC and has constantly failed in internationals.You pick him when he improves and when he does better.

Azhar ali started his career as a bowler and his career graph had a steep rise . He was acoring heavily when picked and was constantly improving.
Selection should obviously not be made on numbers alone especially with the current first class system but giving away test caps to undeserving players makes no sense also its the bowling charts in pakistan that are skewed you will rarely get a Ravindra jadeja like situation in Pakistan with regards to batting stats.

 

[Abdullah719]

As others have mentioned Azhar averaged 35 when he was picked

I don’t think the trust in Babar is misplaced, it’s an investment for the future

Sami also did very well in England which shows his potential

There is no defence for Shan


Both Babar and Sami have barely played two seasons of FC people also have to remember that

TBH he did average 36.33 in the last season of the QEA Trophy which is higher than his FC average of 33.94.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

He was averaging high 30s but if I'm not wrong started off as a leg spinner playing as a tailender the improvement he showed got him selected averaging over 40 In FC in the years before being selected.
Masood Aslam haven't shown any improvement neither has Shafiq
Babar is selected on potential due to playing well in limited overs overall its very risky to select 4 players at once who are not guaranteed starters in test cricket based on their performances.

Exactly my point.You have to send them back to the domestics and then assess their performance.

Aslam was selected because he performed well in the Pakistan Cup(wrong format but still) and his performance in England and NZ.He seems to get bogged down too easily and doesn’t rotate the strike or accelerate even when required.He has the ability to do well and has all the shots in the book.

Masood is selected for reasons other than cricket as he clearly hasn’t performed well in domestics or internationals.

Babar I agree is selected because of his LOI average,but there is a reason he averages mid 30’s in FC and mid 50’s in LO’s.He has played some excellent test knocks but has more often than not failed in this format.I don’t know why,whether it has to do with temperament,confidence or something else.But he has to be sent back to FC and picked in the squad once he improves.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

TBH he did average 36.33 in the last season of the QEA Trophy which is higher than his FC average of 33.94.

And he did it all while Bench pressing a 100kg and speaking good English, what a legend

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Azhar ali started his career as a bowler and his career graph had a steep rise . He was acoring heavily when picked and was constantly improving.
Selection should obviously not be made on numbers alone especially with the current first class system but giving away test caps to undeserving players makes no sense also its the bowling charts in pakistan that are skewed you will rarely get a Ravindra jadeja like situation in Pakistan with regards to batting stats.

I agree that undeserving players shouldn’t be given test caps.Shan Masood is such a player unfortunately.He hasn’t done anything worthwhile to be included.

 

[Hasan123]

As mentioned you don't just select players based on numbers. You also select players on there potential and also how they look at the crease. Not every batsmen has brilliant first class numbers, so improve by playing international cricket.

 

[Cric1234]

As mentioned you don't just select players based on numbers. You also select players on there potential and also how they look at the crease. Not every batsmen has brilliant first class numbers, so improve by playing international cricket.

Aslam Masood Shafiq hardly inspire confidence at the crease and don't look to have great potential aswell.

 

[asfandyar]

Selectors job is to not just sort batting or bowling average and then pick based on that. You don't need selectors for that. Many teams have given extended run to players who didn't do that well initially, but had a pretty good record later.

Actually you do. Just like stock market, and virtually anything that involves numbers. You need a mix of educated guys excelling at making sense of the numbers and those with domain expertise in the area. Unfortunately, our selection committee is short on the former category.

 

[Abdul]

And he did it all while Bench pressing a 100kg and speaking good English, what a legend

That's lightweight, nothing to be gloating over.

 

[asfandyar]

As mentioned you don't just select players based on numbers. You also select players on there potential and also how they look at the crease. Not every batsmen has brilliant first class numbers, so improve by playing international cricket.

Not just selecting based on numbers doesn't mean blatant disregard of those numbers, as in case of Babar (tests) and Shaan Masood. Babar had a pretty mediocre FC average inflated by the 230 odd not out he scored. The selectors ignored the numbers and chose him as a middle order batsman, when Fawad, Usman, Umar Akmal and Saud Shakeel (to name a few) clearly had better numbers.

In fact, selecting a player on talent alone is as bad as selecting a player on numbers alone, but obviously PPers ignore this conveniently. This is a function of a basic instinct: beautiful things attract attention and ugly ones are deemed repulsive. What differentiates educated humans is to negate that basic instinct and judge people purely on merit,

 

[Hasan123]

Not just selecting based on numbers doesn't mean blatant disregard of those numbers, as in case of Babar (tests) and Shaan Masood. Babar had a pretty mediocre FC average inflated by the 230 odd not out he scored. The selectors ignored the numbers and chose him as a middle order batsman, when Fawad, Usman, Umar Akmal and Saud Shakeel (to name a few) clearly had better numbers.

In fact, selecting a player on talent alone is as bad as selecting a player on numbers alone, but obviously PPers ignore this conveniently. This is a function of a basic instinct: beautiful things attract attention and ugly ones are deemed repulsive. What differentiates educated humans is to negate that basic instinct and judge people purely on merit,

Babar is a long term investment. He has shown he can score runs in different conditions at international.

Shan Masood is rubbish and I don't agree with his selection.

I don't think Fawads technique would last outside of his comfort zone. You are free to believe that he would outperform all of our current players.

 

[Hasan123]

Aslam Masood Shafiq hardly inspire confidence at the crease and don't look to have great potential aswell.

Aslam has shown potential to score runs outside of his comfort zone . His strike rate and lack of intent is a major issue which he must sort out.

Asad Shafiq has score runs overseas in difficult conditions. He has weakness and is going through a difficult period but let's not act like he's completely rubbish.

 

[Cric1234]

Aslam has shown potential to score runs outside of his comfort zone . His strike rate and lack of intent is a major issue which he must sort out.

Asad Shafiq has score runs overseas in difficult conditions. He has weakness and is going through a difficult period but let's not act like he's completely rubbish.

They are sub 40 averaging batsmen in FC and tests even if they've scored overseas overall performance is not good enough to build a great team.

 

[Hasan123]

They are sub 40 averaging batsmen in FC and tests even if they've scored overseas overall performance is not good enough to build a great team.

Masood should be dropped.
Asad is on thin ice.
Sami deserves a couple of more series

 

[New Yorker]

Selectors job is to not just sort batting or bowling average and then pick based on that. You don't need selectors for that. Many teams have given extended run to players who didn't do that well initially, but had a pretty good record later.

What percentage of players with a poor FC record have done very well in internationals? What on earth does "pretty good record" mean? Someone who was mediocre in FC is mediocre in Tests and that is a good outcome in your book?

The selectors' job is to pick from the best players in the country on the basis of performance. If they systematically ignore performance they are not doing their job. In the case of Masood we know very well why they are not doing that job.

How does it make sense to have 3 specialist batsmen, ie half your top order, average 40 or less in FC when there are half a dozen players averaging 50? What logic is to expect players to be much better in internationals than in domestics?

 

[New Yorker]

Babar is a long term investment. He has shown he can score runs in different conditions at international.

Shan Masood is rubbish and I don't agree with his selection.

I don't think Fawads technique would last outside of his comfort zone. You are free to believe that he would outperform all of our current players.

Is it not worse to prefer players who can't last IN their comfort zone? How did Asad's technique hold up today?

Belief aside, what better indication of performance do we have than...performance?

 

[Suleiman]

If his highness Fawad Alam was selected, even he, the bringer of storms and father of dragons, couldn't have averted the menace that is the Herath.

 

[msb314]

If his highness Fawad Alam was selected, even he, the bringer of storms and father of dragons, couldn't have averted the menace that is the Herath.

But he may have lasted more than 10 balls compared to our lallu panju batsmen :

 

[kingusama92]

I don't think anyone has been wrongly selected apart from Shan Masood.

 

[KyoOne]

Because selections in Pak cricket are based on connections and personal whims.

Zero merit

 

[ads101]

No idea, proven time and again, the guys with the higher first class averages do better. Even if the guys with lower averages have better technique, they're not used to piling up the runs with that consistency since they don't even do it in domestic.

The way batsmen should be selected is select the guys with the best averages, give them a good go and discard them if they fail/let them go back to domestic to work on their flaws. Fawad's not been given many games and has done pretty well. Usman's not been given a go. Fakhar hasn't been given a go. Shehzad (while I'm no fan), was only given a few chances and hasn't done badly. The guys who are dominating domestic haven't been given yet/consistent chances at international test cricket yet. I see no reason to test out the guys with lower averages when you haven't even given the higher ones a chance. I mean you just have to look at the captain Sarfraz, despite the better domestic numbers, was kept out by Kamran for a long time as Kamran looked better at the crease.

Sami and Babar probably have been given test cricket too early. They haven't learnt what they can from first class yet, and U19 focuses more on limited overs, particularly 50 over cricket. It's just we hope given their talent/prowess at younger levels, they'll learn quickly.

Quite frankly you'd probably have a better/fairer team if you selected with numbers alone. The excuse of going beyond numbers/talent etc. has resulted in the selecting of mediocre players (and giving extended runs to these players).

 

[kingusama92]

No idea, proven time and again, the guys with the higher first class averages do better. Even if the guys with lower averages have better technique, they're not used to piling up the runs with that consistency since they don't even do it in domestic.

The way batsmen should be selected is select the guys with the best averages, give them a good go and discard them if they fail/let them go back to domestic to work on their flaws. Fawad's not been given many games and has done pretty well. Usman's not been given a go. Fakhar hasn't been given a go. Shehzad (while I'm no fan), was only given a few chances and hasn't done badly. The guys who are dominating domestic haven't been given yet/consistent chances at international test cricket yet. I see no reason to test out the guys with lower averages when you haven't even given the higher ones a chance. I mean you just have to look at the captain Sarfraz, despite the better domestic numbers, was kept out by Kamran for a long time as Kamran looked better at the crease.

Sami and Babar probably have been given test cricket too early. They haven't learnt what they can from first class yet, and U19 focuses more on limited overs, particularly 50 over cricket. It's just we hope given their talent/prowess at younger levels, they'll learn quickly.

Quite frankly you'd probably have a better/fairer team if you selected with numbers alone. The excuse of going beyond numbers/talent etc. has resulted in the selecting of mediocre players (and giving extended runs to these players).

I agree but there's a problem.

Most of the current Test players didn't participate in the previous FC tournament. There's no way to compare them to the likes of Kamran Akmal (yikes!), Asif Zakir, Imam ul Haq, or Usman Salahuddin.

I mean it's quite apparent Azhar Ali would dominate if he were to go back now.

Or when Asad Shafiq last played FC cricket, he averaged 64.94 and topped the charts.

 

[New Yorker]

If his highness Fawad Alam was selected, even he, the bringer of storms and father of dragons, couldn't have averted the menace that is the Herath.

He took 168 runs off Herath and Co in his debut match, while YoYo and Inzi foundered. Only YK was able to keep Fawad company for 82 runs.

We lost by 21 runs.

Fawad and someone other than Shan could have made all the difference.

 

[kingusama92]

He took 168 runs off Herath and Co in his debut match, while YoYo and Inzi foundered. Only YK was able to keep Fawad company for 82 runs.

We lost by 21 runs.

Fawad and someone other than Shan could have made all the difference.

Seems unlikely.

Look at the rest of his track record in Tests.

He failed in every other Test innings including three times vs SL.

Don't get me wrong, he has always deserved a longer leash in Test cricket but he's not some sort of savior as claimed here.

 

[Suleiman]

He took 168 runs off Herath and Co in his debut match, while YoYo and Inzi foundered. Only YK was able to keep Fawad company for 82 runs.

We lost by 21 runs.

Fawad and someone other than Shan could have made all the difference.

No he wouldn't have because a match played about a decade ago has little relevance now. A lot can change in such a time frame.

Dont get me wrong, he has been hard done in the past, but we're past it now.

 

[deems]

I don't see any potential in masood. He's just mediocre at best. We need dynamic and impact players not 30 off 130 deliveries and get out at crucial time.

As for Babar, he is far too inexperienced to be playing at test level. He needs at least 2 full FC seasons and 2hours per day of playing spin as he is zero in that department. Temperament isn't there either.

Haris was ready for test cricket a few years back but I feel his injury was a blessing in disguise as it's the right time for him to make his mark.

Sami Aslam is not the opener who will average in the 40s untill he learns to play strokes.

 

[UN talkz]

King fawad alam

 

[ads101]

I agree but there's a problem.

Most of the current Test players didn't participate in the previous FC tournament. There's no way to compare them to the likes of Kamran Akmal (yikes!), Asif Zakir, Imam ul Haq, or Usman Salahuddin.

I mean it's quite apparent Azhar Ali would dominate if he were to go back now.

Or when Asad Shafiq last played FC cricket, he averaged 64.94 and topped the charts.

It's fine if you can't compare them to the people playing in domestic, international players are caught up with international duty so miss domestic matches. Asad might have done better if he was stayed in domestic and got used to piling up the runs consistently in first class. His biggest problem is consistency rather than lack of talent which is a problem he seems to display in domestic too.

I'm more concerned with overall average regardless, players should be picked for averaging high averages each year not just a one off. So you don't need to compare guys for just one season. There are few players who have achieved this in domestic, and really helps narrow things down. In fact only guys I can think of who aren't part of the international test team and haven't been given long runs in international yet are Usman Salluhuddin, Fakhar Zaman, Fawad Alam, Ahmed Shehzad (i.e. guys who average either 50 as middle order, or over 40 as openers). And perhaps Saud Shakeel but it's arguably again a little early for him, he's very young though initially done well.

You've then got a few guys who are on the older side who were already given chances and not done too well in Farhat, Faisal and Butt. I guess Kamran's been piling up the runs in recent years too, but only did it later in his career (and I'm sure if he was dropped earlier in his career and worked to develop himself as a batsman as he's done of late he would have turned out a better batsman). So all of them aren't really in the long term plans anymore. Dunno if I've missed anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Napa]

Bottom line is you need about 4 to 5 batsmen in your team with an average over 45 if you are going to be successful in Tests.

With the retirements of Misbah (avg 47, 75 Tests) and YK (avg 52, 118 Tests), Pakistan is left with only one batsman who qualifies: Azhar Ali (avg 47, 67 Tests)

It is quite doubtful any of the remaining Pakistani Test batsmen will get there: Sami Aslam (avg 33, 12 Tests), Shan Masood (avg 24, 11 Tests), Babar Azam (avg 26, 10 Tests) and Asad Shafiq (avg 39, 57 Tests).

Pakistan needs out of the box thinking. Persisting with the current lot will not get them anywhere. New players have to be tried.

India has 4 batsmen > 45 avg in their current team: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane and Rahul, with Vijay not far behind. That is the reason for India' current success.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

The poster mentioned Maqsood? Well Sohaib Maqsood averaged 50+ in List A but didn't do well in ODI's. I guess that is not always the case.

Who else is 50+ in FC beside Fawad Alam?

 

[New Yorker]

No he wouldn't have because a match played about a decade ago has little relevance now. A lot can change in such a time frame.

Dont get me wrong, he has been hard done in the past, but we're past it now.

I don't know what this means. A lot can change but that doesn't mean it has.

What better players of spin, with a credibly international record against Herath, are currently plying the domestic scene?

No one know anything for sure, but the best bet around would have been Fawad.

 

[Suleiman]

I don't know what this means. A lot can change but that doesn't mean it has.

What better players of spin, with a credibly international record against Herath, are currently plying the domestic scene?

No one know anything for sure, but the best bet around would have been Fawad.

You're asking that question as if the current top crop of domestics have all faced Herath and got sent packing save for Fawdy Alam a decade ago. None of them have faced Herath, that alone is not a basis of selection. Sure Fawad deserves a selection ahead of someone like Shan, but it's pretty delusional to think just Fawad by himself would've stopped the collapse, which was my point in my original post.

 

[kingusama92]

Bottom line is you need about 4 to 5 batsmen in your team with an average over 45 if you are going to be successful in Tests.

With the retirements of Misbah (avg 47, 75 Tests) and YK (avg 52, 118 Tests), Pakistan is left with only one batsman who qualifies: Azhar Ali (avg 47, 67 Tests)

It is quite doubtful any of the remaining Pakistani Test batsmen will get there: Sami Aslam (avg 33, 12 Tests), Shan Masood (avg 24, 11 Tests), Babar Azam (avg 26, 10 Tests) and Asad Shafiq (avg 39, 57 Tests).

Pakistan needs out of the box thinking. Persisting with the current lot will not get them anywhere. New players have to be tried.

India has 4 batsmen > 45 avg in their current team: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane and Rahul, with Vijay not far behind. That is the reason for India' current success.

PAK's batting is starting to look increasingly weak due to Asad Shafiq's form.

He should be averaging 45+ by now.

If he could hold up his end, I'm sure PAK can manage to mould the likes of Haris Sohail, Usman Salahuddin, and Babar Azam.

It's a real uphill battle when a senior batsmen is struggling.

 

[Napa]

PAK's batting is starting to look increasingly weak due to Asad Shafiq's form.

He should be averaging 45+ by now.

If he could hold up his end, I'm sure PAK can manage to mould the likes of Haris Sohail, Usman Salahuddin, and Babar Azam.

It's a real uphill battle when a senior batsmen is struggling.

Though having Shafiq perform would certainly give the Pakistani team much more stability, I don't think the non-performance of Azam and others can be blamed entirely on Shafid.

If I was a Pak selector (which thankfully I am not), I would have given others like Alam and Zaman a try rather than persisting too long with failed experiments.

 

[New Yorker]

You're asking that question as if the current top crop of domestics have all faced Herath and got sent packing save for Fawdy Alam a decade ago. None of them have faced Herath, that alone is not a basis of selection. Sure Fawad deserves a selection ahead of someone like Shan, but it's pretty delusional to think just Fawad by himself would've stopped the collapse, which was my point in my original post.

Why on earth is it delusional? Counterfactuals can never be proven, but it is entirely within the realm of the plausibility that someone who played Herath better than YK, the best player of spin in recent Pakistani history, taking said Herath and co for 168 runs, might have been able to eeke out 20 something runs in Abu Dhabi. Nothing delusional about it all.

And you still haven't answered the question. Who in domestic Pakistani FC cricket would have been a better bet than Fawad in this situation?

 

[Suleiman]

Why on earth is it delusional? Counterfactuals can never be proven, but it is entirely within the realm of the plausibility that someone who played Herath better than YK, the best player of spin in recent Pakistani history, taking said Herath and co for 168 runs, might have been able to eeke out 20 something runs in Abu Dhabi. Nothing delusional about it all.

And you still haven't answered the question. Who in domestic Pakistani FC cricket would have been a better bet than Fawad in this situation?

I don't know, but then again I'm not under the impression that one batsman would've changed the complexion of the match by himself. Ofc he did score 168, fair play to him, but he did fail in the innings following that prior to being dropped, which was admittedly a tad harsh.

 

[New Yorker]

I don't know, but then again I'm not under the impression that one batsman would've changed the complexion of the match by himself. Ofc he did score 168, fair play to him, but he did fail in the innings following that prior to being dropped, which was admittedly a tad harsh.

We didn't have to change the complexion of the match to win it. We had to get 20 more runs.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

FC averages are important but don't tell you the complete story. Some batsmen play most of their matches in conditions who assist bowlers and others the opposite.

I think a player's potential along with FC average (with context) is a good combination.

 

[asifp]

FC averages are important but don't tell you the complete story. Some batsmen play most of their matches in conditions who assist bowlers and others the opposite.

I think a player's potential along with FC average (with context) is a good combination.

Name me one great Test player that did not have a good FC record. Go look it up, and your delusions of judging someone on his potential will be destroyed.

 

[asifp]

If his highness Fawad Alam was selected, even he, the bringer of storms and father of dragons, couldn't have averted the menace that is the Herath.

Do remember this same Fawad Alam hit a 168 on Sri Lankan pitches against someone way deadlier than Herath - Murali!

so yes, there is a chance someone like Fawad could have won you the game in the UAE.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Name me one great Test player that did not have a good FC record. Go look it up, and your delusions of judging someone on his potential will be destroyed.

Azhar had a FC average of 37 when he joined the team. If its good for you then I cant say anything. Even now his test average is 47 and FC 41 (increased by test match additions).
So here goes your theory.

 

[Cric1234]

Azhar had a FC average of 37 when he joined the team. If its good for you then I cant say anything. Even now his test average is 47 and FC 41 (increased by test match additions).
So here goes your theory.

Azhar was a tailender when he started playing FC he moved up the order and started averaging over 40 that's why he was selected his grit and determination have given him his test record mostly.

 

[Cric1234]

4 other batsmen have a sub 40 average in FC and all average sub 40 in test cricket generally batsmen struggle to better their FC stats.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Azhar was a tailender when he started playing FC he moved up the order and started averaging over 40 that's why he was selected his grit and determination have given him his test record mostly.

Still averaged 37 when he joined the team. Still its only 41. As I said he had potential because the guy knows his off stump and has a tight defence. Suitable for tests.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Still averaged 37 when he joined the team. Still its only 41. As I said he had potential because the guy knows his off stump and has a tight defence. Suitable for tests.

And I have never said FC average isn't important. It is but with context, and also we have to see a player's long term potential. You can invest in a youngster even if he has a sub 40 average if the guy has potential. This is the job of selectors and that why they are being paid. If cricnfo stats were the only thing then me, you and anyone can become a selector.

 

[asfandyar]

Babar is a long term investment. He has shown he can score runs in different conditions at international.

Shan Masood is rubbish and I don't agree with his selection.

I don't think Fawads technique would last outside of his comfort zone. You are free to believe that he would outperform all of our current players.

How many long term investments have actually culminated in an ICC tournament win? Pakistan's history is rife with newcomers coming in and destroying the opposition (Fakhar and Hasan in recent Champions Trophy). If you are willing to accept sustained current loss for potential future benefit, then I am not sure what your opinion is worth.

 

[asfandyar]

The discussions on PP eventually culminate into Potential vs Merit: Umar Amin vs Fawad Alam, Babar Azam vs Usman Salahuddin, Ahmed Shahzad vs Fakhar Zaman, and countless others.

At the end of the day, both these groups are right in their own context. If you watch cricket as a leisurely activity (for fun), you will not want to see Fawad play hockey on a cricket field.

If you watch cricket with nationalism, winning, results in mind, then Babar Azam handsomely nicking the ball to the keeper again and again will seem absurd.

 

[Cric1234]

The discussions on PP eventually culminate into Potential vs Merit: Umar Amin vs Fawad Alam, Babar Azam vs Usman Salahuddin, Ahmed Shahzad vs Fakhar Zaman, and countless others.

At the end of the day, both these groups are right in their own context. If you watch cricket as a leisurely activity (for fun), you will not want to see Fawad play hockey on a cricket field.

If you watch cricket with nationalism, winning, results in mind, then Babar Azam handsomely nicking the ball to the keeper again and again will seem absurd.

I'm not sure which of the top order people are eager to watch bat Masood Aslam Azhar Babar Shafiq or Haris?
All slow sub 50 s/r players who out of maybe Haris looks easy on the eye in general no dynamic batsman who would automatically get more people watching.

 

[shane]

Let's be fair, Pakistan Test caps are fairly worthless. Many of those who get them do not last more than two or three Tests anyway.

 

[Hasan123]

How many long term investments have actually culminated in an ICC tournament win? Pakistan's history is rife with newcomers coming in and destroying the opposition (Fakhar and Hasan in recent Champions Trophy). If you are willing to accept sustained current loss for potential future benefit, then I am not sure what your opinion is worth.

We're talking about tests not icc tournaments. Not every player starts there test career with 50 plus averages. For some it takes time. Our domestic system will only make Babar regress. Playing international cricket will be the best way for him to improve.

 

[ethan hunt]

Another issue with the sub 40 brigade is they are all pretty ordinary against spin.
Micky really isnt the brightest .
He moved our best test opener to 3 to accomodate a terrible batsman like Shan
Unnecessary stubborness.

 

[asfandyar]

People criticize Fawad that he will be found out in Australia / England / South Africa. Our current players are being found out in UAE!