Why can Shadab Khan not be considered as a Test all-rounder?

[MenInG]

Looking at how Salman Agha was used by Pakistan in the series against Sri Lanka, one wonders why Shadab Khan who is a decent batter in his own right and a specialist spinner too, could not have fulfilled the role or atleast groomed for this role?

Similar question being asked by Rashid Latif:

“Very few have the potential to identify talent. I think we were a bit late. During PSL, Shadab Khan was in very good form. I don’t think there is a better all-rounder than him in this country. So, why wasn’t he given a chance? I want to ask this to selection committee, as well as Babar (Azam)"

“We don’t give him a chance in first-class as well, we permitted him to go play in a league in Bangladesh while the first-class cricket was going on here. So, we didn’t prepare well. People think we don’t have spinners, but we didn’t prepare them as well. Shadab should’ve been given an opportunity this season. We have to bring him back to Test cricket"

 

[Officer Barbrady]

Salman Agha was played as a specialist batsman. His bowling was pure bonus. Think ppl are confused about this. He actually batted pretty well too.

Shadab would be competing with Nawaz for the all rounder spot. At the moment though he seems more interested in t20 leagues and struggles to maintain fitness, which is unfortunate.

 

[MenInG]

Salman Agha was played as a specialist batsman. His bowling was pure bonus. Think ppl are confused about this. He actually batted pretty well too.

Shadab would be competing with Nawaz for the all rounder spot. At the moment though he seems more interested in t20 leagues and struggles to maintain fitness, which is unfortunate.

He was used as a front line spinner because Pakistan's spin attack is so useless.

If this is how our situation is, Shadab can be groomed for the role too and as I said he is a decent bat with 3 Test 50s to his name.

 

[Ab Fan]

I agree. Shadab is Pakistan's version of Washington Sundar. You can play him as third spinner in subcontinent and a sole spinner in SENA( Shadab + 4 pacers).

Shadab Khan is a very talented player and can set high standards of fielding which others in the team can get inspired with and improve continuously.

 

[Marooned]

Forget Agha, he wouldn't have done any worse than Yasir shah in SL.

His test batting has a lot of potential too while being the best fielder in Pakistan.

He should be the 1st player we should look at going forward in test cricket.

There's only one worry. His recent comments which were along the line "I need to play fc before tests etc etc" while coating it with the usual "I'd love to play test cricket" indicated to me that there might be an underlying fitness issue.

But anyway, if it were upto me, he would be central to my future plans in tests.

 

[Barragan]

Nawaz is better.

He may have done better with the bat, but definitely not with the ball.

Lacks consistency and is injury prone.

Best not to talk about Shadab as a Test option, until he proves his worth in FC

Agha shouldn't have been in the team anyway.

 

[Saj]

17 first class matches only in the entirety of his career.

That tells you a story in itself.

We need to pick players for Test cricket who actually want to be playing First-class cricket and don't see it as an afterthought.

 

[Rana]

Shadab and Faheem were a reliable 7 and 8 in the Ireland/England series

They add much needed balance to this side

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He hasn't played FC in a long while. Preferred to play some t20 tournament when QeA trophy was going on. Could have negotiated a deal this year for FC in addition to vitality blast in county.

Don't know if he has aspirations for longer format. Eventually it's upto the player to do the hard yards.

Amir ran away after finding out he needed to work harder for the longer format to be successful.

Zafar atm looks to be the only viable option who could be tried immediately.

In addition, Babar is not a very good captain of spin as far as Tests are concerned. The only instance where he used spinners efficiently was the test series vs SA 2021. In the recent SL series, he used spinners in short spells as if it was an ODI. Think the only good captain of spin bowling we've had this millenium has been Misbah.

 

[Usman]

The reason I am supportive of Shadab playing test cricket is not because I think he is some amazing leggie. It’s because Yasir is so poor that literally anyone could replace him. If he gets 1 or 2 wickets for 100 plus runs, well Shadab cannot physically do worse than that. Plus I agree that Shadab adds weight to the batting order.

In addition to Yasir being poor, we have the added problem that Nauman is not very good and Sajid Khan, who initially promised a lot, got smashed to all parts against Australia, that too on home soil.

So we have not a single decent spin option available. Nawaz as an all rounder is better than both Yasir and Nauman. There’s no reason why Shadab as an all rounder wouldn’t also perform better than Yasir and Nauman.

Where are all the mystery spinners gone in Pakistani cricket? Nobody seems interested in learning the art of spin any more, other than bog standard off spin without the mystery.

 

[MenInG]

The reason I am supportive of Shadab playing test cricket is not because I think he is some amazing leggie. It’s because Yasir is so poor that literally anyone could replace him. If he gets 1 or 2 wickets for 100 plus runs, well Shadab cannot physically do worse than that. Plus I agree that Shadab adds weight to the batting order.

In addition to Yasir being poor, we have the added problem that Nauman is not very good and Sajid Khan, who initially promised a lot, got smashed to all parts against Australia, that too on home soil.

So we have not a single decent spin option available. Nawaz as an all rounder is better than both Yasir and Nauman. There’s no reason why Shadab as an all rounder wouldn’t also perform better than Yasir and Nauman.

Where are all the mystery spinners gone in Pakistani cricket? Nobody seems interested in learning the art of spin any more, other than bog standard off spin without the mystery.

That is another issue!

 

[ElRaja]

Where are all the mystery spinners gone in Pakistani cricket? Nobody seems interested in learning the art of spin any more, other than bog standard off spin without the mystery.

there are no mystery spinners generally. even sri lanka won by bowling good orthodox spin. the penny dropped for sri lanka when they realised pushing the ball through was forcing pakistani batsman on to the back foot. ashwin and jadeja for the most part are orthodox spinners, as is lyon.

to be a world class test spinner u need control, discipline and mastery of flight, all three elements which you cannot learn playing t20 cricket.

 

[hitthestump]

That is another issue!

A whole other issue. Just imagine where we would be if we didn't have Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen. Pakistan would fall off a cliff.

It's not just spinners, we are not producing fast bowlers, middle order batsmen or power hitters either. This isn't a case of 'nobody is interested in learning', it is a case of our system being rotten to the very core.

 

[shaz619]

Looking at how Salman Agha was used by Pakistan in the series against Sri Lanka, one wonders why Shadab Khan who is a decent batter in his own right and a specialist spinner too, could not have fulfilled the role or atleast groomed for this role?

Similar question being asked by Rashid Latif:

“Very few have the potential to identify talent. I think we were a bit late. During PSL, Shadab Khan was in very good form. I don’t think there is a better all-rounder than him in this country. So, why wasn’t he given a chance? I want to ask this to selection committee, as well as Babar (Azam)"

“We don’t give him a chance in first-class as well, we permitted him to go play in a league in Bangladesh while the first-class cricket was going on here. So, we didn’t prepare well. People think we don’t have spinners, but we didn’t prepare them as well. Shadab should’ve been given an opportunity this season. We have to bring him back to Test cricket"

He deserves a chance more then random village cricketers

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Pakistan should give Shadab a go in Test. He is a leggie and leggies are assets in Test.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Agree with OP.

Shadab is, to me, a no-brainer for Tests.

He has already done well with his batting in tests. His bowling is still sadly work in progress and I think will remain so. We should assume his ability in bowling will remain 6/10 vs Lyon. Then it's OK.

But most importantly, unlike many of his contemporaries who regress, he is learning. Constantly getting better. Single biggest factor why he deserves a chance.

At 8, he wil bring stability in batting. And with his bowling, he will get crucial partnership breaks.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

He was used as a front line spinner because Pakistan's spin attack is so useless.

If this is how our situation is, Shadab can be groomed for the role too and as I said he is a decent bat with 3 Test 50s to his name.

Think the question is does Shadab want a role in test cricket?

Imad was another player who could have been very handy in test cricket over the years but showed absolutely no interest.

In any case Shadab would be a swap for nawaz. Agha competes with other specialist batsmen a category he qualifies for given that he was the 3rd highest run getter in the 2020 FC season (and scored on the recent A tour)

 

[Major]

There are three issues which is why we wont be seeing Shadab in test cricket any time sooner

-His strength
-His first class experience
-His bowling accuracy

Shadab Khan's main issue is his strength. Belonging from poor backgrounds and having poor diets in the past results in their body being very weak. Shadab is a good fielder and has good fitness levels but he often ends up breaking down. Either its a back injury, a groin injury and other issues. He has never been fully fit for the whole year.

The reason is simple, he lacks strength. You cant play him in a test series as he will never last. He breaks down just by bowling in a t20 tournament. If we talk about solution for his strength well there isnt any. Many times in sports you have great players that have injury issues going on. Its not because they have fitness issues its just because how their body is.

Even if we play Shadab Khan in a test series. An injury for him would also mean he wont be playing any other format. This is a player who self admits he cant read and write, thus he cant afford to sit out of cricket. For Shadab, test and first class cricket is the oppurtunity cost he bares. By not playing the longer format, he gets to play t20 tournaments and limited overs and earn his money that way.

Than comes the second reason which is related to the first one. He has played barely 17 first class matches. He lacks experience. In test cricket its all about waiting, in odis you rely on the opposition to attack a leg spinner but in test you create chances. Learning this art takes years, you cant expect him to do anything in 17 tests.

Than the third reason his accuracy. I am a big fan of shadab, but the guy cant even bowl 6 balls at the same spot. He will either messe up his line or his length would be messed up.
You know why shadab has been so effective till now? His variety and his spin. He is a good spinner as he has good grip on the ball and spins it well. The issue? He messes his line and length. If shadab was more accurate, he would had been a bigger bowler than rashid khan.

His accuracy issue is again related to the lack of experience aswell.

Anyways, Shadab has to salvage whatever career he has. For shadabs sake, its better if he plays limited overs and ignore first class or test cricket. His body cant bare it and any more injuries reduces his playing career.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Because he hasn't played any FC cricket.

Salman Ali Agha, Nauman Ali, Mohammad Nawaz, all performed in the QeA Trophy and earned a place in the side. Regardless of how they did for Pakistan good or bad, no one can say that they didn't earn their place.

Shadab hasn't played a FC match in 2 years. His last FC match was the test match against England at Old Trafford. And he wasn't a particularly good red-ball bowler even then. There is zero reason to select him in the test side.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The notion that ''we don't give him a chance in FC cricket'' is utter B.S. If Shadab cared about playing FC cricket, he would be playing FC cricket. Nobody forced him to go and play league cricket, he did it because it allowed him to make more money while doing less work. Considering how depleted the Northern side was at various points of the QeA Trophy last season, I think they would have been more than happy to have Shadab in the side. That is, if Shadab wanted to be there.

Ultimately, you can't force players to what you want. Banning them from playing leagues is an authoritarian way of doing things. They should be smart enough to know what's good for them. Especially someone like Shadab who is not a rookie anymore. He should take responsibility for his career.

If he wants to be a real cricketer than he has to succeed at test cricket. Being just a good limited-overs cricketer means nothing in this game anymore.

 

[Savak]

You would see many Talented Cricketers prioritizing 3-4 day cricket and test cricket over T20 leagues if the pays were better.

To address this problem the PCB needs to reduce the pay for the ODI, T20 games and increase it for test and domestic 3 day cricket.

Also make it conditional that any player approaching the PCB for an Noc to play in a T20 league must have played and made themselves available for the domestic 3 day competition

 

[Officer Barbrady]

The notion that ''we don't give him a chance in FC cricket'' is utter B.S. If Shadab cared about playing FC cricket, he would be playing FC cricket. Nobody forced him to go and play league cricket, he did it because it allowed him to make more money while doing less work. Considering how depleted the Northern side was at various points of the QeA Trophy last season, I think they would have been more than happy to have Shadab in the side. That is, if Shadab wanted to be there.

Ultimately, you can't force players to what you want. Banning them from playing leagues is an authoritarian way of doing things. They should be smart enough to know what's good for them. Especially someone like Shadab who is not a rookie anymore. He should take responsibility for his career.

If he wants to be a real cricketer than he has to succeed at test cricket. Being just a good limited-overs cricketer means nothing in this game anymore.

The current county season is a good example. While others like Haris Rauf and Husnain are playing county cricket, Shadab only went for the t20 bash to make some quick bucks and promptly returned home once that ended. Did he even bother to negotiate or make himself available for the 4-day season to advance his test career?

 

[Officer Barbrady]

You would see many Talented Cricketers prioritizing 3-4 day cricket and test cricket over T20 leagues if the pays were better.

To address this problem the PCB needs to reduce the pay for the ODI, T20 games and increase it for test and domestic 3 day cricket.

Also make it conditional that any player approaching the PCB for an Noc to play in a T20 league must have played and made themselves available for the domestic 3 day competition

Nothing pays better than the IPL and we see plenty of English and Aussie cricketers skipping it entirely and prioritizing test cricket.

Shadab is already well compensated with a A contract in the PSL and a full Pakistan contract and the Pakistani FC season is anyways very short at less than 2 months. The money excuse doesn’t fly here.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The current county season is a good example. While others like Haris Rauf and Husnain are playing county cricket, Shadab only went for the t20 bash to make some quick bucks and promptly returned home once that ended. Did he even bother to negotiate or make himself available for the 4-day season to advance his test career?

Exactly. If Rauf and Hasnain; both of whom have played less than 10 FC matches in their career, can get FC cricket deals, why can't Shadab?

 

[Junaids]

17 first class matches only in the entirety of his career.

That tells you a story in itself.

We need to pick players for Test cricket who actually want to be playing First-class cricket and don't see it as an afterthought.

With respect, absolutely not, that is a recipe for endless disasters.

Young Pakistani cricketers nowadays are semi-educated if you are lucky, and have no real understanding of the history of cricket or the value of First Class cricket as a finishing school for Test cricket.

In International cricket the talent your country has is finite, and how you utilise it is up to you.

Dave Warner and Umar Akmal were similar not-very-smart, not-very-educated young men. Warner was taught to appreciate Test cricket, while Umar Akmal was discarded at the age of 20.

And for the next decade, Pakistan ignored its only world class batting talent, and lost away everywhere they toured.

The situation with Shadab Khan is a perfect example.

Pakistan hasn't got an international class spinner, just like England didn't when Graeme Swann retired.

So England adapted Moeen Ali for the job, and got a guy who could average 30 with the bat and take 10 wickets per 3 Test series at an average of 36.

Shadab Khan is an upgrade on Moeen Ali because he is a far superior batsman and fielder, but he's only at the same level as a bowler.

But in terms of what Pakistan has now, heading into 2023, Shadab Khan is as good a bowler as what is left of Yasir Shah (in fact he was always a better southern hemisphere bowler than Yasir) and he is better than Mohammad Nawaz in all three facets of the game.

The ball is in Pakistan's court. You can wait for Shadab to appreciate the value of red ball cricket. He may never do so, and you will underperform in every series in SENA because you have left the ball in his court.

Pakistan only lost the Old Trafford Test - and series - in 2020 because Yasir Shah could not do his job with the ball any more in the fourth innings.

But they were only in the game in the first place because of Shadab's partnership with Shan Masood in the First Innings. Shadab came in at 176-5 , scored 45 and was out at 281-6.

And he never played another Test match.

What a waste, and what incompetent selection!

 

[Saurav]

He's surely better than Nawaz and Salman Agha

 

[Rajdeep]

With respect, absolutely not, that is a recipe for endless disasters.

Young Pakistani cricketers nowadays are semi-educated if you are lucky, and have no real understanding of the history of cricket or the value of First Class cricket as a finishing school for Test cricket.

In International cricket the talent your country has is finite, and how you utilise it is up to you.

Dave Warner and Umar Akmal were similar not-very-smart, not-very-educated young men. Warner was taught to appreciate Test cricket, while Umar Akmal was discarded at the age of 20.

And for the next decade, Pakistan ignored its only world class batting talent, and lost away everywhere they toured.

The situation with Shadab Khan is a perfect example.

Pakistan hasn't got an international class spinner, just like England didn't when Graeme Swann retired.

So England adapted Moeen Ali for the job, and got a guy who could average 30 with the bat and take 10 wickets per 3 Test series at an average of 36.

Shadab Khan is an upgrade on Moeen Ali because he is a far superior batsman and fielder, but he's only at the same level as a bowler.

But in terms of what Pakistan has now, heading into 2023, Shadab Khan is as good a bowler as what is left of Yasir Shah (in fact he was always a better southern hemisphere bowler than Yasir) and he is better than Mohammad Nawaz in all three facets of the game.

The ball is in Pakistan's court. You can wait for Shadab to appreciate the value of red ball cricket. He may never do so, and you will underperform in every series in SENA because you have left the ball in his court.

Pakistan only lost the Old Trafford Test - and series - in 2020 because Yasir Shah could not do his job with the ball any more in the fourth innings.

But they were only in the game in the first place because of Shadab's partnership with Shan Masood in the First Innings. Shadab came in at 176-5 , scored 45 and was out at 281-6.

And he never played another Test match.

What a waste, and what incompetent selection!

Shadab Khan is a better bat than Moeen Ali in which world?

 

[Mesozoic]

Shadab Khan is a better bat than Moeen Ali in which world?

In the same world where Pant is 75% as skilled as Rohail Nazir.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

In the same world where Pant is 75% as skilled as Rohail Nazir.

It is a shame that such highly talented players are ignored by PCB...

 

[Saj]

I'm sure the selectors will pick Shadab for a Test match after he's performed well in a few T20 matches.

That seems to be the policy these days.

 

[shamaan]

Nawaz is better.

He may have done better with the bat, but definitely not with the ball.

Lacks consistency and is injury prone.

Best not to talk about Shadab as a Test option, until he proves his worth in FC

Agha shouldn't have been in the team anyway.

I would play Shadab as all rounder in SENA conditions were his bowling won't necessarily needed whilst his batting will be needed.

 

[shamaan]

Shadab should play as a batting all rounder in SENA conditions in a 4 man pace attack with Shadab being the 5th bowler.

In asain conditions he can only as 3rd spinner who can bat at 7.

Shadab isn't good enough to play as a spinner.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan have some quality young players :-

1. Babar Azam
2. Mohammad Rizwan
3. Abdullah Shafique
4. Shadab Khan
5. Shaheen Shah Afridi

Rest are mediocre.

 

[Abstraction1]

He hasn't played FC in a long while. Preferred to play some t20 tournament when QeA trophy was going on. Could have negotiated a deal this year for FC in addition to vitality blast in county.

Don't know if he has aspirations for longer format. Eventually it's upto the player to do the hard yards.

Amir ran away after finding out he needed to work harder for the longer format to be successful.

Zafar atm looks to be the only viable option who could be tried immediately.

In addition, Babar is not a very good captain of spin as far as Tests are concerned. The only instance where he used spinners efficiently was the test series vs SA 2021. In the recent SL series, he used spinners in short spells as if it was an ODI. Think the only good captain of spin bowling we've had this millenium has been Misbah.

It's not Babar's fault if the Spinners sre not being economical or taking wickets. Yashir Shah has been very disappointing in his last several Tests.

 

[Junaids]

I'm sure the selectors will pick Shadab for a Test match after he's performed well in a few T20 matches.

That seems to be the policy these days.

Sure, but there is another issue here too.

People who like us are old, experienced and wise (!) seem to get annoyed at players who are young, uneducated and who make bad format choices.

So we cast them into the wilderness, and then when inferior players lose, we saw "but there is no talent".

Mickey Arthur had a few failings, but by the England/Ireland tour of mid-2018 - and certainly South Africa seven months later - he had recognised that Yasir Shah was in decline and there was no emerging pace talent apart from Shaheen Shah Afridi.

Mickey Arthur had worked out that in Tests outside Asia - but probably in Pakistan too - your best bet is to play the wicketkeeper at 6, Shadab Khan at 7 and Faheem Ashraf at 8.

And I have seen absolutely nothing in the last four years to disprove that conclusion. Mickey Arthur was absolutely correct.

6 MOHAMMAD RIZWAN
7 SHADAB KHAN
8 FAHEEM ASHRAF (SENA) / MOHAMMAD NAWAZ (Asia)
9 HASAN ALI (SENA) / SAJID KHAN (Asia)
10 SHAHEEN SHAH AFRIDI
11 NASEEM SHAH

 

[Justcrazy]

Shadab Khan and Nawaz both should play , in fact Shadab in Tests can be a proper middle order batsman.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It's not Babar's fault if the Spinners sre not being economical or taking wickets. Yashir Shah has been very disappointing in his last several Tests.

Regardless of how bad your spinners are, you don't give them 5-6 over spells in SL. That has never worked and it didn't.

Yasir has never been a good bowler in SA, NZ or Aus. He's been fine in England. He bowled 7 or 8 overs in that sole test in WI that he played, a pitch where all wickets on either side were taken by pacers. Before that, he bowled well against SA at home. So if you're basing his performance on last 3 tests then I don't know what to say. Every spinner will recede if he doesn't play much.

Our spinners are trash right now. As simple as that.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sure, but there is another issue here too.

People who like us are old, experienced and wise (!) seem to get annoyed at players who are young, uneducated and who make bad format choices.

So we cast them into the wilderness, and then when inferior players lose, we saw "but there is no talent".

Mickey Arthur had a few failings, but by the England/Ireland tour of mid-2018 - and certainly South Africa seven months later - he had recognised that Yasir Shah was in decline and there was no emerging pace talent apart from Shaheen Shah Afridi.

Mickey Arthur had worked out that in Tests outside Asia - but probably in Pakistan too - your best bet is to play the wicketkeeper at 6, Shadab Khan at 7 and Faheem Ashraf at 8.

And I have seen absolutely nothing in the last four years to disprove that conclusion. Mickey Arthur was absolutely correct.

6 MOHAMMAD RIZWAN
7 SHADAB KHAN
8 FAHEEM ASHRAF (SENA) / MOHAMMAD NAWAZ (Asia)
9 HASAN ALI (SENA) / SAJID KHAN (Asia)
10 SHAHEEN SHAH AFRIDI
11 NASEEM SHAH

Mickey didn't play Fahim in SA till the 3rd test till Shadab got fit. His opinion was if Shadab isn't playing, Fahim won't either.

And why hasn't Shadab played any FC cricket in last 2 years? He is "senior" enough now to make his own choices. He could have skipped BPL/BBL last year when he left QeA trophy after playing 1 game.

You can't expect to play Test cricket if you are not going to play any FC cricket (especially if you're not a regular in that format)

Nawaz was discarded after 1 series by Mickey. He could have chosen to take Rizwan to Eng in the wc 19 squad but he didn't (Rizwan had scored 2 ODI centuries in the series right before that against Aus)

So no, Mickey wasn't a genius either.

 

[javid]

Simply needs to play first class cricket to show that he is capable of playing long format cricket....
He could be an asset if he shows his interest in playing first class cricket and then test cricket....