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Why can't Babar Azam do to Shadab Khan and Mohammad Nawaz, what Jos Butler did to Jason Roy?

mominsaigol

mominsaigol

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Jason Roy was performing poorly, so Butler with a heavy heart had to let Roy go, whole Roy will still be a travelling reserve he was withdrawn from the 15 to accommodate Harry Brook. England are making sure that they are taking their strongest 15 to the world cup.

Another example is India. Sanju Sampson didn't perform, so kohli chatted with sanju on voice call detailing why he didn't make it due to poor performance and that not to worry as he can make it in the future is he improves. Similarly Dhawan the 2013 man of the tournament, and the guy who smashed a super century against Australia in 2019, was replaced by Gill, as dhawan fizzled out Gill easily took up the mantle.

Another thing to point out, is India and England are currently playing their 2nd string sides against Ireland and Australia in order to rest their big players for the world cup.

In Pakistan its the opposite, with us never resting players and always playing the winning 11 and now unfortunately we have to deal with naseem our best pace bowler excluded from not only the world cup, but from future series due to his injuries. We made zero changes to our squad unlike england( no hasan Ali does not count, that was a forced change).

The question is, What the hell is wrong with Babar? Is winning the world cup not the end goal? Does your pride prevent you from doing the right thing? Why was tayyab dropped when he didn't even get a game? Are your personal milestones really more important then grooming youngsters, is that why you're playing your golden boys against 2nd string sides?

I use to back babar, but now I want to get rid of him( As a captain, not as a player) completly.
 
Roy was replaced by Brook who has exceptional record ever since he debuted.

Ishan Kishan took Samson's place as he rescued India against Pak where India could have collapsed under 150.

Dhawan was replaced by Gill almost 2 years back and Gill has had bigger impact than Dhawan's entire career.

So what you wanna prove here is not making any sense. If you want replace out of form Fakhar, you need to find players like brook, Ishan and gill in our domestic circuit.

Pak just can't afford to drop such a key player in mega event, it is as simple as that. We just don't have replacements available and even if we bring any 19-20year rookie and by chance if he fails, imagine what social media armchair experts and agenda driven media would do to their career.
 
There's no one in domestic as valuable as Shadab and there's a reason why he has been a mainstay since like 2016 pre Babar's captaincy.

England are stacked in batting and have so many options who can replace Roy without missing a beat. It's a similar situation with India & Australia who are super deep in depth. That's what happens when you have a consistent domestic system and all the resources including proper coaches you need so player's development is maximized.
 
Why the sole blame on Babar. So many folks were involved in selection.
 
apples and oranges.

Those players were mostly junior and roy can be dropped as they have another player like brooks developed.

Pakistan never developed a spinner that can replace Shadab, so you cant risk dropping shadab at this point. The undderstudies of shadab and Nawaz should had gotten chances at the start of 2022.
 
You need to have impactful players in reserves to take that kind of call. Unfortunately Pakistan doesn't have any.

Take example of India's wk batting options. Pant, Ishan, Sanju, KL Rahul (accidental WK) all these batters are inconsistent but can be very impactful player on their day. What Pak has for Rizwan in case replacement needed?

Ashwin, Jaddu, Axar are all capable batsman and Ash-Jaddu definitely better bowler than Shadab-Nawaz. Pak has?

So it makes sense why Babar went with selected team.
 
Shadab 's bowling in the middle overs was pretty good until SA tour 2019.

Pakistan used to play in UAE until then, and he was fine because bowling defensively probably worked there.

He's been an absolute fraud since then in the middle overs.

One of the worst wrist spinners between 11 and 40.

Chahal is a much superior spinner in that phase and we dropped Chahal.

This guy is a Jadeja level fraud in ODIs.
 
Because , just like Inzimam, he is a timid, spineless creature. As now like majority of the Pakistanis , they don't put country ahead of their personal interest.
 
May as well ask why can’t Pakistan be England.

The two nations have radically different cultures, different styles, different interpersonal relationships - how can we expect the outcomes to be the same?

It’s not just for cricket to be fair, it would prove hold true for all institutions.
 
mominsaigol said:
Jason Roy was performing poorly, so Butler with a heavy heart had to let Roy go, whole Roy will still be a travelling reserve he was withdrawn from the 15 to accommodate Harry Brook. England are making sure that they are taking their strongest 15 to the world cup.

Another example is India. Sanju Sampson didn't perform, so kohli chatted with sanju on voice call detailing why he didn't make it due to poor performance and that not to worry as he can make it in the future is he improves. Similarly Dhawan the 2013 man of the tournament, and the guy who smashed a super century against Australia in 2019, was replaced by Gill, as dhawan fizzled out Gill easily took up the mantle.

Another thing to point out, is India and England are currently playing their 2nd string sides against Ireland and Australia in order to rest their big players for the world cup.

In Pakistan its the opposite, with us never resting players and always playing the winning 11 and now unfortunately we have to deal with naseem our best pace bowler excluded from not only the world cup, but from future series due to his injuries. We made zero changes to our squad unlike england( no hasan Ali does not count, that was a forced change).

The question is, What the hell is wrong with Babar? Is winning the world cup not the end goal? Does your pride prevent you from doing the right thing? Why was tayyab dropped when he didn't even get a game? Are your personal milestones really more important then grooming youngsters, is that why you're playing your golden boys against 2nd string sides?

I use to back babar, but now I want to get rid of him( As a captain, not as a player) completly.
Click to expand...
A lot of players have been dropped along the way like
Hassan Ali, Usman Qadir, Hasnain
 
batandballbattle said:
You sure about that?
www.telegraph.co.uk

Jason Roy’s back injury could open door for Harry Brook in World Cup squad

Veteran batsman may have suffered a decisive blow in his shoot-out with Ashes hero for place in squad to travel to India
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
Click to expand...
Brother his back spasms weren't that serious, he was willing to play for the world cup.

He got so disheartened after being dropped that he's stated he doesn't want to play for England again.

He's still a travelling reserve. You don't take injured players as your travelling reserve.

So yes I'm 100% Sure.
 
mominsaigol said:
Brother his back spasms weren't that serious, he was willing to play for the world cup.

He got so disheartened after being dropped that he's stated he doesn't want to play for England again.

He's still a travelling reserve. You don't take injured players as your travelling reserve.

So yes I'm 100% Sure.
Click to expand...
If it wasn't for his injury malan wouldn't have been able to shine against NZ and replace him in the squad, it played a big part. I doubt they would have dropped him to the reserves if he played that series
 
Malan has cashed in his chance and made sure that selectors cannot find a reason to drop him. Roy on the other hand was not that good and his ability to play at any number was also lacking when compared to Harry Brook.
 
It was injustice with Jason Roy but if Babar does the same with Shadab then it will be justice with Wc squad.
 
Saj said:
Different cultures.

England pick their strongest squads and go in with an aim to win tournaments irrespective of which players they pick.

They pick squads based on form and fitness.
Click to expand...
Bro, what does this have to do with culture? So does pakistan culture state to not pick your strongest squads and not win tournaments? I don't see how difficult it would be to just pick the best squad based of form and fitness.

Everyone's argument is usually England have more players then us, and I'm like broskie we just need better players then the likes of shadab. It's not such a hard thing to achieve when he'd clearly the worst spinner of the Asia cup.
 
batandballbattle said:
If it wasn't for his injury malan wouldn't have been able to shine against NZ and replace him in the squad, it played a big part. I doubt they would have dropped him to the reserves if he played that series
Click to expand...
The reason he's dropped is because he just ain't performing well. It's as simple as that. Their better openers and Brook is a more utility player then he is.

So much so that people are calling it injustice to drop him but ecb does not care.

Pakistan may not have ecb level resources but we do have superior players to shadab/ Nawaz etc and we aren't using them because of bias. It doesn't take a genuine to figure out that abrar, imad and usama are 10x the players these 2 are.

You can quote imad waseem's stats all day long, it still doesn't change the fact that he's a superior player to these 2.
 
mominsaigol said:
The reason he's dropped is because he just ain't performing well. It's as simple as that. Their better openers and Brook is a more utility player then he is.

So much so that people are calling it injustice to drop him but ecb does not care.

Pakistan may not have ecb level resources but we do have superior players to shadab/ Nawaz etc and we aren't using them because of bias. It doesn't take a genuine to figure out that abrar, imad and usama are 10x the players these 2 are.

You can quote imad waseem's stats all day long, it still doesn't change the fact that he's a superior player to these 2.
Click to expand...
Should Shadab be dropped? Yes.

Do we have anyone significantly better than him in and around the squad? No. Anybody who saw Abrar bowl in LPL will know that he is not ready to be taken to the WC. He should be a part of PCT going forward. The only bowler up to the mark is Mir and he is part of the squad.

One thing I can't understand is the Imad argument. Any person who has seen Imad play can't seriously say that he deserves to be in the ODI WC squad. Even as of today, I have higher hopes of Shadab and Nawaz than I have of Imad. He was a regular and there was a reason he got dropped. He just wasnt good enough and his stats are a conclusive proof of that. Its not a feeling or a vibe, its conclusive proof.


Sometimes, I feel like people of social media and I saw 2 different Imad play for Pakistan. Anybody who has EVER seen Imad play an ODI cant be serious when they pitch his name for the squad. If he was the savior of PCT, he would have been dropped.
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro, what does this have to do with culture? So does pakistan culture state to not pick your strongest squads and not win tournaments? I don't see how difficult it would be to just pick the best squad based of form and fitness.

Everyone's argument is usually England have more players then us, and I'm like broskie we just need better players then the likes of shadab. It's not such a hard thing to achieve when he'd clearly the worst spinner of the Asia cup.
Click to expand...
Culture as in a reluctance to change and upset people, especially those who have been around the team for a while.
 
mominsaigol said:
The reason he's dropped is because he just ain't performing well. It's as simple as that. Their better openers and Brook is a more utility player then he is.

So much so that people are calling it injustice to drop him but ecb does not care.

Pakistan may not have ecb level resources but we do have superior players to shadab/ Nawaz etc and we aren't using them because of bias. It doesn't take a genuine to figure out that abrar, imad and usama are 10x the players these 2 are.

You can quote imad waseem's stats all day long, it still doesn't change the fact that he's a superior player to these 2.
Click to expand...
This is the simple answer. Roy's form has dipped over the last 2 years. Has been very inconsistent. Malan grabbed his chance and deserves his chance. And harry brook is an impact x player and has to be in.
But Roy will be a good traveling reserve if malan ir bairstow get injured. Just the way it is in sport. A tough call to make for the team's cause.
 
Moiza said:
Should Shadab be dropped? Yes.

Do we have anyone significantly better than him in and around the squad? No. Anybody who saw Abrar bowl in LPL will know that he is not ready to be taken to the WC. He should be a part of PCT going forward. The only bowler up to the mark is Mir and he is part of the squad.

One thing I can't understand is the Imad argument. Any person who has seen Imad play can't seriously say that he deserves to be in the ODI WC squad. Even as of today, I have higher hopes of Shadab and Nawaz than I have of Imad. He was a regular and there was a reason he got dropped. He just wasnt good enough and his stats are a conclusive proof of that. Its not a feeling or a vibe, its conclusive proof.


Sometimes, I feel like people of social media and I saw 2 different Imad play for Pakistan. Anybody who has EVER seen Imad play an ODI cant be serious when they pitch his name for the squad. If he was the savior of PCT, he would have been dropped.
Click to expand...
Brother we do have better players. I have seen imad play. In the nz t20 series shadab did nothing while imad dismantled a 2nd string nz and batted better as well.

Imad is not ideal I agree but his stats are poor because 1st string sides smashed him. But trust me when I say this shadab us getting humiliated this world cup against 1st string sides.

No allrounder can be worse then shadab. Not a single one. He's the worst allrounder in Asia cup, Nepal player were legit better then he is.
 
mominsaigol said:
Brother we do have better players. I have seen imad play. In the nz t20 series shadab did nothing while imad dismantled a 2nd string nz and batted better as well.

Imad is not ideal I agree but his stats are poor because 1st string sides smashed him. But trust me when I say this shadab us getting humiliated this world cup against 1st string sides.

No allrounder can be worse then shadab. Not a single one. He's the worst allrounder in Asia cup, Nepal player were legit better then he is.
Click to expand...
Going with Shadab is an understandable decision since PCT has invested heavily in him for a long time. We should get rid of him altogether after the WC if he doesnt perform but based on the current options I can understand why they went with him. Everyone else is only marginally better, no one is significantly better.
 
Because there's a basic lack of knowledge and understanding in them.

In that society its more about friendships and keep taking care of them instead of looking at the bigger picture and putting the country and team first.
 
Jason Roy isn't fully fit and hasn't played any cricket for the past month. He didn't have the best of T20 Blasts where he could only manage one 50+ score. England had a very good option in Harry Brook to replace him so they went for this option. On the other hand, we don't have a good enough spinner with enough experience in the country to replace these two players. The only real option was Imad Wasim which the team management didn't take as he hasn't played any 50 over cricket recently.
 
Nawaz is one of two players who already played in india .he is part of 2016 world T20 team so he has experienced to Bowl in Indian conditions.other player who have played in india is Agha Salman .
 
Devadwal said:
Nawaz is one of two players who already played in india .he is part of 2016 world T20 team so he has experienced to Bowl in Indian conditions.other player who have played in india is Agha Salman .
Click to expand...
What experience 💀 that was nearly 8 years ago and Nawaz didn't play a single game.
 
Jason Roy: England assistant Marcus Trescothick urges him to remain positive despite World Cup omission

Roy was initially named in England’s provisional 15-man squad for the defence of their 50-over World Cup in India, but was replaced by Harry Brook in a late change.

Roy failed to play in England’s recent four-match ODI series against New Zealand because of recurring back spasms, leaving selectors to opt for Brook as a safer choice.

"I've not spoken to Jason, he's surely disappointed but you've got to remain positive that he can still make an impact,” said Trescothick.

"Reserves have a big part in World Cups. You pick up one injury and someone comes in, they could come in and make a hell of a lot of runs.

"If he keeps himself fit and ready to go, should we need him to come out then we'll make that call.”

Trescothick, who was part of the 2005 Ashes-winning squad, and other coaching staff will continue to take care of England’s ODI squad against Ireland before heading to India on Wednesday.

England’s World Cup squad is being rested with Zak Crawley taking on captaincy as England head to Bristol was a 1-0 lead after the first ODI was abandoned without a ball being bowled due to rain.

Debutant Sam Hain and Will Jacks impressed with the bat while 19-year-old leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed took 4-45 to beat Ireland by 48 runs at Trent Bridge.

Roy turned down the offer to play for England in the three-match series against Ireland which has invited questions about his future for England.

"It was a good opportunity for him to play a longer innings and play a bit more," Trescothick added.

"We know how much of a talent he is, it's his opportunity - getting the chance to play is going to be the real challenge for him. It's a good team, trying to break into it is tough."
 
Danyal A said:
Jason Roy: England assistant Marcus Trescothick urges him to remain positive despite World Cup omission

Roy was initially named in England’s provisional 15-man squad for the defence of their 50-over World Cup in India, but was replaced by Harry Brook in a late change.

Roy failed to play in England’s recent four-match ODI series against New Zealand because of recurring back spasms, leaving selectors to opt for Brook as a safer choice.

"I've not spoken to Jason, he's surely disappointed but you've got to remain positive that he can still make an impact,” said Trescothick.

"Reserves have a big part in World Cups. You pick up one injury and someone comes in, they could come in and make a hell of a lot of runs.

"If he keeps himself fit and ready to go, should we need him to come out then we'll make that call.”

Trescothick, who was part of the 2005 Ashes-winning squad, and other coaching staff will continue to take care of England’s ODI squad against Ireland before heading to India on Wednesday.

England’s World Cup squad is being rested with Zak Crawley taking on captaincy as England head to Bristol was a 1-0 lead after the first ODI was abandoned without a ball being bowled due to rain.

Debutant Sam Hain and Will Jacks impressed with the bat while 19-year-old leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed took 4-45 to beat Ireland by 48 runs at Trent Bridge.

Roy turned down the offer to play for England in the three-match series against Ireland which has invited questions about his future for England.

"It was a good opportunity for him to play a longer innings and play a bit more," Trescothick added.

"We know how much of a talent he is, it's his opportunity - getting the chance to play is going to be the real challenge for him. It's a good team, trying to break into it is tough."
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, our players line up to play Nepal, Hong Kong and Uganda
 
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