Why do Pakistan fans underestimate their own team/players?

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I have observed this. I remember during CT I made a thread that Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now and some of the reaction was that it was some kind of sin. Ok so Starc who played a major part in world cup win 2 years back at home is best but Hasan who did even better recently in CT is not? Cant understand this logic.

I am against unnecessarily overrating players like Shehzad (who mind you was limited from start) but as Pakistanis we should back our performers and support our players rather being diplomatic. Or the other reason might be that due to the years of mediocrity Pakistani fans are now reserved, dissapointed and lost hope. They fear that like some other players in past its a possibility that current talented players will fall down.

Why cant a Pakistani player or Pakistani team be best in the world? Cricket is the only game passionately played in Pakistan with some kind of support from administration and we have some exceptionally talented players. Why are we happy with semi finals/quarter finals/draw series? We have the talent pool to be a top team in the world and imo should aim to achieve it.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Was listening to Azhar Mehmood's interview in which he said that Hasan came to him and said he want to become best bowler in the world. Really like that attitude. You will achieve big only once you aim big.

 

[Cric1234]

People are a bit more cautious maybe in the past too many have been hyped and disappointed long term.
The CT win was good but it was only 3 matches consistent performance over the next few years will get respect.

 

[idrizzy]

People are a bit more cautious maybe in the past too many have been hyped and disappointed long term.
The CT win was good but it was only 3 matches consistent performance over the next few years will get respect.

That's what a tournament is though. More often than not you do need a good team to win but you also need guts and be mentally tough. The best ODI team might not win the WCs/CTs, but don't take anything away from the team that did win it.

 

[kingusama92]

Because you can't call someone the "best bowler in the world" after 21 matches.

 

[mak36]

Because you can't call someone the "best bowler in the world" after 21 matches.

I don't recall that ever stopping people hyping the likes of Pandya and Stokes.

 

[mak36]

People are a bit more cautious maybe in the past too many have been hyped and disappointed long term.
The CT win was good but it was only 3 matches consistent performance over the next few years will get respect.

That's what a tournament is though. More often than not you do need a good team to win but you also need guts and be mentally tough. The best ODI team might not win the WCs/CTs, but don't take anything away from the team that did win it.

Just a factual point- it was 4 matches (5 in total).

As you were.

 

[Slog]

Lol what

Pakistanis underrate their players?

Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal were anointed best young batsmen for a good 6-7 years before even hey stopped claiming that

 

[hitthestump]

Maybe because most of this generation has been pretty crap?

Misbah, Younis, Yasir and the UAE carried us in tests. ODI's, well...

 

[idrizzy]

Just a factual point- it was 4 matches (5 in total).

As you were.

very pernickety. I believe any team can be good as long as you have a good foundation, form and confidence. Literally all teams have that except SL, Ban and NZ to an extent. Difference between cricket and other team sports is literally 3/4 of these solid players gotta do something. This happened in the final for Pakistan: Azhar, Fakhar, Amir, Hasan. Obviously other players contributed but these were the 4 vital players that made us win. India only had 1 in Pandya, and therefore lost.

 

[Sachin136]

I don't recall that ever stopping people hyping the likes of Pandya and Stokes.

No one called Pandya the best all-rounder in the world or anything close to it.

Stokes is hyped for good reason.

 

[kingusama92]

I don't recall that ever stopping people hyping the likes of Pandya and Stokes.

Anyone claim Pandya is the "Best allrounder in the world" deserves similar ridicule.

 

[backfootpunch]

Because Pakistan batting is awful - bowlers actually get praised here and rightly so.

 

[Poutine]

No one called Pandya the best all-rounder in the world or anything close to it.

Stokes is hyped for good reason.

Didn't former Indian cricketers term Pandya as the next Kapil Dev and India's David warner based on one knock against a team that lost a home series to Zimbabwe? You don't consider that overhyping?

 

[Sachin136]

Didn't former Indian cricketers term Pandya as the next Kapil Dev and India's David warner based on one knock against a team that lost a home series to Zimbabwe? You don't consider that overhyping?

They said he has the potential to be that. No one called him the best all-rounder in the world at present. In Hasan's case, people are saying that he is the best bowler in the world right now.

Sri Lanka didn't lose a test series to Zimbabwe.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

In Hasan's case, people are saying that he is the best bowler in the world right now.

Best odi bowler in world.
And yes he is.

 

[Poutine]

They said he has the potential to be that. No one called him the best all-rounder in the world at present. In Hasan's case, people are saying that he is the best bowler in the world right now.

Sri Lanka didn't lose a test series to Zimbabwe.

People as in posters on an online forum? I am sure if you go to Indian forums you will find posters who think Pandya is the best in the world. .

Anyways when legends like Gavaskar say that a player is the next legendary all rounder based on a few matches, I consider that overhyping not what some online users may say.

 

[Poutine]

They said he has the potential to be that. No one called him the best all-rounder in the world at present. In Hasan's case, people are saying that he is the best bowler in the world right now.

Sri Lanka didn't lose a test series to Zimbabwe.

That's true but the Zim batsman were able to hit the Sl attack which included Hearth (Who Pandya didnt have to face) for 350+ in both innings. Taking nothing away from Pandya but the hype after that knock has been way OTT.

 

[mak36]

Anyone claim Pandya is the "Best allrounder in the world" deserves similar ridicule.

How would you describe this?

Just three Tests into his career Pandya has been compared to David Warner by Sunil Gavaskar, tipped to be the next Kapil Dev by chairman of selectors MSK Prasad and hailed as “special” by captain Virat Kohli.

 

[mak36]

No one called Pandya the best all-rounder in the world or anything close to it.

Stokes is hyped for good reason.

Pretty sure calling him David Warner and Kapil Dev comes close- hype train if I ever saw it.

You are making my point for me- next you will say Stokes is better than Botham.

 

[mak36]

I do wish people would pay more attention to what OP has actually said.

He has not said Hasan Ali is the best ODI bowler ever. All he has said is that "Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now." The operative words being "right now." The number of matches he has played (within reason) doesn't really come into the equation. Likewise, Mitchell Starc's exploits from 2 years ago are not relevant to current performances.

Actually, comparing Pandya to Kapil Dev is a far bigger (and more ludicrous) claim because you are comparing it to a set benchmark/comparator ie. Kapil Dev. To compare Pandya, who has played a grand total of 3 matches, to someone considered Indian's greatest AR is beyond ridiculous.

Contrast that now with what OP said. He called Hasan Ali "the best ODI bowler in the world right now." Calling someone the best ODI bowler currently is, by definition, a measure which varies according to the standard of current players. In other words, it is a standard which is constantly fluctuating- it could for instance just be saying something about the quality of bowling in ODI cricket atm.

That's why saying "Ben Stokes is currently the world's best AR" is a very different statement to saying "Ben Stokes is the new Ian Botham/better than Ian Botham."

And that's why saying "Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now" is a far more sensible statement than the ones about Pandya being the next Kapil Dev.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I do wish people would pay more attention to what OP has actually said.

He has not said Hasan Ali is the best ODI bowler ever. All he has said is that "Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now." The operative words being "right now." The number of matches he has played (within reason) doesn't really come into the equation. Likewise, Mitchell Starc's exploits from 2 years ago are not relevant to current performances.

Actually, comparing Pandya to Kapil Dev is a far bigger (and more ludicrous) claim because you are comparing it to a set benchmark/comparator ie. Kapil Dev. To compare Pandya, who has played a grand total of 3 matches, to someone considered Indian's greatest AR is beyond ridiculous.

Contrast that now with what OP said. He called Hasan Ali "the best ODI bowler in the world right now." Calling someone the best ODI bowler currently is, by definition, a measure which varies according to the standard of current players. In other words, it is a standard which is constantly fluctuating- it could for instance just be saying something about the quality of bowling in ODI cricket atm.

That's why saying "Ben Stokes is currently the world's best AR" is a very different statement to saying "Ben Stokes is the new Ian Botham/better than Ian Botham."

Thank You!
And Hasan is not even my favorte Pakistani player that I will overhype him due to favoratism even if someone wants to think it that way. He is 5th on my list. But I do think that we Pakistanis need to back our good players more and if they are the best then we should acknowledge it and be proud of. Aim high, achieve high. We have the players with ability.

 

[kingusama92]

How would you describe this?

Please read the whole quote next time.

“It’s still early days but Pandya has proven that he has it in himself to succeed in Test cricket. He is a bit like David Warner. I believe that Hardik will follow Warner’s footsteps and become a successful player in all three formats of the game,

You took the journalist's spin of his quote as gospel.

He's just predicting Pandya will be good. Nothing more.

 

[kingusama92]

I do wish people would pay more attention to what OP has actually said.

He has not said Hasan Ali is the best ODI bowler ever. All he has said is that "Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now." The operative words being "right now." The number of matches he has played (within reason) doesn't really come into the equation. Likewise, Mitchell Starc's exploits from 2 years ago are not relevant to current performances.

Actually, comparing Pandya to Kapil Dev is a far bigger (and more ludicrous) claim because you are comparing it to a set benchmark/comparator ie. Kapil Dev. To compare Pandya, who has played a grand total of 3 matches, to someone considered Indian's greatest AR is beyond ridiculous.

Contrast that now with what OP said. He called Hasan Ali "the best ODI bowler in the world right now." Calling someone the best ODI bowler currently is, by definition, a measure which varies according to the standard of current players. In other words, it is a standard which is constantly fluctuating- it could for instance just be saying something about the quality of bowling in ODI cricket atm.

That's why saying "Ben Stokes is currently the world's best AR" is a very different statement to saying "Ben Stokes is the new Ian Botham/better than Ian Botham."

And that's why saying "Hasan Ali is the best odi bowler in world right now" is a far more sensible statement than the ones about Pandya being the next Kapil Dev.

But you didn't pay attention either.

The quote about Kapil Dev stated he "can be as good as Kapil Dev". Every young player is compared to a great of the game in this manner (i.e. Babar and Kohli, Amir and Wasim). Most end up being wrong but that's hardly new.

AND

It was Botham who stated, "As a player, [Stoke] is probably better than I was at 24."

Followed by Flintoff who said, "Trust me, he's better than me, better than Ian Botham too."

Of course people are going to run with the idea when Botham and Flintoff mention it themselves. Are they right? Well, that's a separate debate.

 

[kingusama92]

Also, Hasan Ali being the best bowler in the world "right now" doesn't hold merit either.

That title goes to Hazlewood.

 

[mak36]

Thank You!
And Hasan is not even my favorte Pakistani player that I will overhype him due to favoratism even if someone wants to think it that way. He is 5th on my list. But I do think that we Pakistanis need to back our good players more and if they are the best then we should acknowledge it and be proud of. Aim high, achieve high. We have the players with ability.

No problem bhai.

 

[R0H1T]

That's true but the Zim batsman were able to hit the Sl attack which included Hearth (Who Pandya didnt have to face) for 350+ in both innings. Taking nothing away from Pandya but the hype after that knock has been way OTT.

Pak also chased down 370 odd without Herath & Sanga in the side, well who's overhyping their test batting, past or present, resources now?

 

[ads101]

PPers here on general are too negative. I'd like to say it's reserved for just Pakpassion posters, but I think a lot of Pakistani cricket fans are like this in general. Whenever I watch Pakistan with my dad (who was born in Pakistan). He'll always go on about how Pakistan will lose. He will say Pakistan is losing when they're batting at 6 an over, they should be going at 10 lol. Yet if the opposition is batting at 3 runs an over, losing wickets, he'll still maintain that Pakistan will muck up.

That negativity rubs off onto our players too, hence difficult to create a winning mentality in the team. Always afraid of collapsing, being criticised to the moon etc.

 

[Suleiman]

We are quick to hype and quick to shun as well.

Have been a Hasan supporter for quite a while, after his first few games people were saying he was found out lmao yet continued to hype Amir to the moon (who hasn't been awful btw, 2nd clutch finals performance).

And then you had the folks who were calling Sharjeel legside hack when he was clearly beginning to show a wider array of strokes.

Likewise Umar the Akmal is still hailed as lord commander of our batting unit for quite a while despite a lot of mediocre,performances but said numbers have now died down.

 

[squarecut]

Pakistani fans here underestimate everyone, be they Pakistani players or non Pakistani ones. "Is X overrated" is a standard title thread with them here.

 

[Bilal7]

I sure don't. We have one of the best bowling attacks in the world and are a top three team in each format of the game. Historically, we're the best Asian team by far and a top three, if not top two team, cricketing nation.

 

[Pollack]

Pakistani fans are very dismissive of their players only when they are doing extremely bad. Rest of time they overhype players to the moon. If team is not doing well even a good player who just needs a bit time is ridiculed mercilessly. On the other hand if the team is doing average to very good even a good to very good player becomes next best thing since slice bread. He immediately becomes world class and undisputed no 1 in the world among fans. Just my honest two cents.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hasan Ali is the best bowler in the world?LOL.

Hazlewood Starc Rabada Shami all are retired?

 

[The Googly]

A lot of Pakistanis have a negative attitude which is disappointing. Unfortunately, I think sometimes it is based on having some kind of inferiority complex.

Let me give some examples to illustrate my point.

1. Imagine Alistair Cook makes a statement : "Mohammed Amir is the best bowler in the world". Then Azhar Mahmood makes a statement "Hassan Ali is the best bowler in the world".

You can bet your bottom dollar that Pakistani newspapers and cricket forums will be full of Cook's comment and Azhar's comment will go largely ignored or will be laughed at.

Now imagine the reverse scenario : If Mohammed Amir stated "Cook is the best batsman in the world"......would the English fans or English press be bothered?? NO. They would not bat an eyelid.

This is what I mean by an inbuilt inferiority complex in a lot of Pakistanis. By paying such attention to Cook's comment, it is showing more faith and reverance in an outsider's comment then someone from Pakistan. It is as though we seek reassurance from outside and if that reassurance is from one of the western countries then great.

2. So many UK Pakistanis are incredibly negative about Pakistan and are always moaning about the people, the corruption, the instability, the economy.

Of course Pakistan has so many issues. But I find it deplorable when there is so much negativity from Pakistanis who do nothing for their country.


3. There is an inherent impatience and lack of understanding in the general Pakistan cricket fan. Hence, we will always tend to underrate OR overrate out teams. The middle ground and a balanced view is NOT a common scenario for the typical Pakistan fan

 

[The Googly]

By lack of understanding, I do not mean a lack of understanding aboutr cricket. I mean there is a lack of sympathy. Pakistan fans are demanding and do not generally accept any excuses that an English fan for example would.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

A lot of Pakistanis have a negative attitude which is disappointing. Unfortunately, I think sometimes it is based on having some kind of inferiority complex.

Let me give some examples to illustrate my point.

1. Imagine Alistair Cook makes a statement : "Mohammed Amir is the best bowler in the world". Then Azhar Mahmood makes a statement "Hassan Ali is the best bowler in the world".

You can bet your bottom dollar that Pakistani newspapers and cricket forums will be full of Cook's comment and Azhar's comment will go largely ignored or will be laughed at.

This is sooo true!

 

[Hasan123]

I think we know that our players can be brilliant one day then be awful the next. With that in mind , we don't want to overhype our players too much. But a lot of teams underestimate there own players and some fans overrate there players.

 

[The Googly]

To illustrate my point further, I will use an example from Imran Khan's autobiography. He mentioned that one of the things he hated was Pakistan's inferiority complex on the 1971 tour of England. The team manager told the players - "If you hit the ball to slip, just walk because English fielders never drop catches". Another example he quoted was an embarrasing speech from the manager where he thanked the English for "teaching them how to use a knife and fork"!

The point is that Pakistanis generally take a negative view of their teams, their country and so on. It's in the mindset. And linked to this is also a sense of awe of all things British and western. This sense of awe has now spread to include India (awe of their economy, their progress and so on).

I wish we could get rid of this inferiority complex and develop a deep sense of pride in all things Pakistani. This certainly does not mean we should go overboard and ignore our shortcomings and be unrealistic.

As for the constant moaners and attention seekers - get a life

 

[joly]

I always thought it was the other way round

 

[kingusama92]

A lot of Pakistanis have a negative attitude which is disappointing. Unfortunately, I think sometimes it is based on having some kind of inferiority complex.

Let me give some examples to illustrate my point.

1. Imagine Alistair Cook makes a statement : "Mohammed Amir is the best bowler in the world". Then Azhar Mahmood makes a statement "Hassan Ali is the best bowler in the world".

You can bet your bottom dollar that Pakistani newspapers and cricket forums will be full of Cook's comment and Azhar's comment will go largely ignored or will be laughed at.

Now imagine the reverse scenario : If Mohammed Amir stated "Cook is the best batsman in the world"......would the English fans or English press be bothered?? NO. They would not bat an eyelid.

This is what I mean by an inbuilt inferiority complex in a lot of Pakistanis. By paying such attention to Cook's comment, it is showing more faith and reverance in an outsider's comment then someone from Pakistan. It is as though we seek reassurance from outside and if that reassurance is from one of the western countries then great.

2. So many UK Pakistanis are incredibly negative about Pakistan and are always moaning about the people, the corruption, the instability, the economy.

Of course Pakistan has so many issues. But I find it deplorable when there is so much negativity from Pakistanis who do nothing for their country.


3. There is an inherent impatience and lack of understanding in the general Pakistan cricket fan. Hence, we will always tend to underrate OR overrate out teams. The middle ground and a balanced view is NOT a common scenario for the typical Pakistan fan

Good point and I agree.

BUT there are extremes to everything such as Wasim Akram calling every PAK player "the best fielder in the team."

It doesn't make him sound patriotic, it makes him sound crazy.

Being objective is key.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Because most of the time they overestimate them and most of the time the overhyped players can't live up to their expectations.

 

[Abdullah719]

Also, Hasan Ali being the best bowler in the world "right now" doesn't hold merit either.

That title goes to Hazlewood.

Hasan Ali is the best bowler in the world?LOL.

Hazlewood Starc Rabada Shami all are retired?

Best ODI bowler in the world is the claim, let's not omit important parts of the quote.

I don't necessarily agree but he was Man of the Tournament in the latest ICC Trophy so it's not exactly a ridiculous thing to say. Plus, he has the highest number of ODI wickets over the past year (besides Rashid Khan who hasn't exactly been playing top teams all the time).

 

[Bilal7]

Indians definitely won't underestimate our players again after suffering their most humiliating defeat in the finals of a Champions Trophy.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Best ODI bowler in the world is the claim, let's not omit important parts of the quote.

I don't necessarily agree but he was Man of the Tournament in the latest ICC Trophy so it's not exactly a ridiculous thing to say. Plus, he has the highest number of ODI wickets over the past year (besides Rashid Khan who hasn't exactly been playing top teams all the time).

Good points and thanks yar.
And also the claim is not just because of Champions trophy (ofcourse CT played a big part) rather than what he did throughout the last year. I havent said Fakhar is the best odi batsman in the world.

Hasan is the best odi bowler and that is being objective. Atleast for me.
And back to thread wish Pakistanis start thinking big and dont underestimate our proven perfomers.