Why do some Pakistanis like Donald Trump?

[Robert]

I am not talking about anyone in particular here or citizens of any particular country. It's more a general observation of some (but not all) PPers.

Why is it that some (but not all) rate Trump - a full-on racist whose only motivation is what advantages him on a minute-by-minute basis - as preferable to a Democrat who, while flawed as we all are, is at least empathic toward less advantaged people?

Of course, Trump is just an example. It could be any despot (or wannabe despot in his case as the robust US Constitution constrains him).

I gave this some thought on my daily exercise walk yesterday. Over years I have seen the phrase "double standard" raised numerous times. "Double standard" appears to be considered a great sin.

As though outright evil, if honestly and autherntically stated, is somehow preferable to occasionally compromised kindness.

As though "double standard" renders kindness meaningless and worthless.

Is the outright evil man just easier to comprehend?

Genuinely baffled, and genuinely curious to read this issue explored.

 

[Stewie]

Complicated question.

Some like him because they are loving the disgrace US is suffering because ... well US is the most hated country by the Pakistanis on par with India and Israel. So they are enjoying the internal strife with Americans.

Some like him because they believe him to be anti establishment and establishment is responsible for drone strikes in Pakistan, wars, basically everything negative associated with The US. So an anti establishment Trump is somehow against all that ugliness so that’s another reason he is viewed as favorable.

I would say those are the top reasons, whether rightly justified or severely misguided, that’s a different discussion altogether.

There are a handful of Pakistanis who have adopted the western conservative values so they feel inclined to support Trump out of malice for the left but those people are much fewer in numbers.

 

[silentkiller187]

Unfortunately some people forget their roots, you find the same all around the globe, for example Britain first in the UK has fascist views but you will find indians, pakistani and black ppl trying to join the bandwagon. Same with KKK rallies in the USA before Trump, you would always find the token black man always walking along with them.

 

[Stewie]

In the case of these Pakistani Trumpers, race relations or racism is not a consideration at all. The dynamic is totally different as I stated in my last post.

Their support has little or nothing at all to do with Trump’s ethics, morality and his views on racism. Those aspects of Trumpism do not affect these Pakistanis at all either because they are not Americans or if they are, they are ok with it because it doesn’t directly affect them. Some Pakistanis are pretty racist when it comes to blacks, so it’s not a completely alien or strange behavior to observe.

 

[sweep_shot]

Only reason I can think of is Trump was an anti-war president.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

From what I've seen Trump supporters can come from opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to Pakistanis. There are the religious type who think that Trump is against war in the ME so they think he is better for Muslims despite his fairly public statements to the contrary.

Then there are the well to do type who think Trump is a businessman so will look after those with money, much like the Tories do in the UK.

I actually have a family member who having been brought up with exclusively white mates, also defends Trump, although I think he partly does this to troll his cousins on the family get togethers.

 

[Stewie]

Only reason I can think of is Trump was an anti-war president.

Yes but he was/is ready to go to war with Iran. I think a lot of our “perception” about him on war is wrong.
Some of it is derived from our views of Obama and Syria and ISIS which was not entirely Obama’s fault although he did play a solid hand in it. Given the same situation, how Trump would have reacted is entirely conjecture.

But yes, it’s true, he was mainly looking out for his own business interests which were real estate and building rather than war profiteering. Some people consider that a positive. I honestly didn’t think it was something that would convince me to support him.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Only reason I can think of is Trump was an anti-war president.

Bingo.

Most people don't care about anyone's personal beliefs as long as their actions benefit them directly or indirectly.

There has been an insane level of polarization on both sides of the political spectrum (this predates Trump), and most people don't like being dictated to or told how to think. Even now there's this pigheaded refusal from most (allegedly 'kinder' and 'wiser') folks to ponder the reasons Donald Trump was popular, or if they do they can't comprehend anything less superficial than all his supporters must be racist by association.

 

[Stewie]

Bingo.

Most people don't care about anyone's personal beliefs as long as their actions benefit them directly or indirectly.

There has been an insane level of polarization on both sides of the political spectrum (this predates Trump), and most people don't like being dictated to or told how to think. Even now there's this pigheaded refusal from most (allegedly 'kinder' and 'wiser') folks to ponder the reasons Donald Trump was popular, or if they do they can't comprehend anything less superficial than all his supporters must be racist by association.

It goes both ways. Some support him merely because they hate the other side. I know a vast majority of people originally voted for him in 2016 because they hated Hillary.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bingo.

Most people don't care about anyone's personal beliefs as long as their actions benefit them directly or indirectly.

There has been an insane level of polarization on both sides of the political spectrum (this predates Trump), and most people don't like being dictated to or told how to think. Even now there's this pigheaded refusal from most (allegedly 'kinder' and 'wiser') folks to ponder the reasons Donald Trump was popular, or if they do they can't comprehend anything less superficial than all his supporters must be racist by association.

Well there can't be much doubt that Trump himself pandered to racists, and in fact his right hand man for so long Steve Bannon was an unashamed racist. So my view is that many minorities, not just Pakistanis, voted for Trump for economic or social reasons regardless of the racism.

For example, I am in no way a racist but at the same time I am not in favour of immigration from India as I feel that this will just sour relations further between natives and those from the subcontinent already here. The UK needs to have a go at standing on it's own feet with local labour rather than importing unwelcome foreigners.

 

[Stewie]

Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, And his association with all the wrong types of people under the guise of economic nationalism which is really a code word for white nationalism or white supremacism now.

 

[Pakpak]

Well there can't be much doubt that Trump himself pandered to racists, and in fact his right hand man for so long Steve Bannon was an unashamed racist. So my view is that many minorities, not just Pakistanis, voted for Trump for economic or social reasons regardless of the racism.

For example, I am in no way a racist but at the same time I am not in favour of immigration from India as I feel that this will just sour relations further between natives and those from the subcontinent already here. The UK needs to have a go at standing on it's own feet with local labour rather than importing unwelcome foreigners.

The bold point is important and to be fair only you've said it. Most Pakistanis support him because of some anti-war myth. He tried as best as he could to attack Iran, the Iranians weren't capable or willing to retaliate much after their general's death but it was absolutely the reason for killing their chief. He would have absolutely meddled in Syria too but luckily for him the war was winding down by the time he came and the Syrian government was winning. His administration has more or less recognised Taiwan last week and anything more will create a far more dangerous atmosphere. He has openly supported and encouraged and empowered racists by first praising Farage, calling for him to be the ambadassor to the US, constantly retweeting Katie Hopkins (the most venomous anti-Muslim racist). Because of Trump so many far right scumbags think its okay to be open about their racism. He is worshipped on Stormfront, who post unreal filth about ethnic minorities particularly Islam. I'd like to see Pakistani Trump supporters attend his rallies, they'd battered. He has also single handily set back the Palestinians, probably irreversibly. Your average Gulf Arab doesn't care at all about recognising Israel or not hence the total apathy of Arabs in the Gulf when UAE and other Gulf nations recognised Israel. He's set up a situation where the Gulf Arabs can now openly challenge Iran together and any kind of Shia Sunni war is an absolute disaster for Pakistan.

I may not be religious but my family is all Muslim. I can never support this moronic racist who has encouraged Islamophobia and his supporters abuse Muslims proudly. Nor can I ever support him for the empowerment of racists he routinely does.

 

[Nadeemp]

Well there can't be much doubt that Trump himself pandered to racists, and in fact his right hand man for so long Steve Bannon was an unashamed racist. So my view is that many minorities, not just Pakistanis, voted for Trump for economic or social reasons regardless of the racism.

For example, I am in no way a racist but at the same time I am not in favour of immigration from India as I feel that this will just sour relations further between natives and those from the subcontinent already here. The UK needs to have a go at standing on it's own feet with local labour rather than importing unwelcome foreigners.

Many Pakistanis in America have been republicans. They just voted for Trump as he is republican. The ant lower taxes, lower wages.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Well there can't be much doubt that Trump himself pandered to racists, and in fact his right hand man for so long Steve Bannon was an unashamed racist. So my view is that many minorities, not just Pakistanis, voted for Trump for economic or social reasons regardless of the racism.

For example, I am in no way a racist but at the same time I am not in favour of immigration from India as I feel that this will just sour relations further between natives and those from the subcontinent already here. The UK needs to have a go at standing on it's own feet with local labour rather than importing unwelcome foreigners.

I agree with you totally.

I just don't have much patience with people who pander to simplistic narratives, on both sides. Trump was no saviour, and those following him blindly probably underestimated his incompetence and lack of foresight.

 

[IMMY69]

His attempt to have a Muslim ban entry policy should have sent alarm bells ringing to our anti war Pakistani friends..

Imagine, he tried to ban Muslims coming in..
Even though local gun crime accounted for more deaths then any Muslim terrorist act...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The bold point is important and to be fair only you've said it. Most Pakistanis support him because of some anti-war myth. He tried as best as he could to attack Iran, the Iranians weren't capable or willing to retaliate much after their general's death but it was absolutely the reason for killing their chief. He would have absolutely meddled in Syria too but luckily for him the war was winding down by the time he came and the Syrian government was winning. His administration has more or less recognised Taiwan last week and anything more will create a far more dangerous atmosphere. He has openly supported and encouraged and empowered racists by first praising Farage, calling for him to be the ambadassor to the US, constantly retweeting Katie Hopkins (the most venomous anti-Muslim racist). Because of Trump so many far right scumbags think its okay to be open about their racism. He is worshipped on Stormfront, who post unreal filth about ethnic minorities particularly Islam. I'd like to see Pakistani Trump supporters attend his rallies, they'd battered. He has also single handily set back the Palestinians, probably irreversibly. Your average Gulf Arab doesn't care at all about recognising Israel or not hence the total apathy of Arabs in the Gulf when UAE and other Gulf nations recognised Israel. He's set up a situation where the Gulf Arabs can now openly challenge Iran together and any kind of Shia Sunni war is an absolute disaster for Pakistan.

I may not be religious but my family is all Muslim. I can never support this moronic racist who has encouraged Islamophobia and his supporters abuse Muslims proudly. Nor can I ever support him for the empowerment of racists he routinely does.

Agreed. To clarify, the reason I support a curb on immigration is only to keep the whites happy. Personally I love living in a multicultural society, but the whites need to see what it will be like to turn the clock back. Even though I live in a white area, that's only because it's a high end area where the desirable property is. I would actually love to see more colour here, and better catering to for multicultural tastes. Actually would love to move further out into a more greener area but those tend to be even more white, and probably too insular. I need some international restaurants and culture close by, and you only get that in the big cities.

 

[Stewie]

The social and economic reasons are also nothing but a myth. His actions and policies did not and will not result in long term growth. He inherited a healthy coni year from obama. And he somehow took all the credit for it without doing any of the work.

 

[Shah]

Republican presidents have generally been pro-Pakistan. You can go back to Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

On the other hand, democrat presidents have been quite pro-India. e.g. Clinton. Obama (democrat) had the most drone attacks on Pakistan and killed countless innocents. Biden was VP for Obama for 8 years so don't expect anything different from Obama. Biden's VP Kamala Harris is Indian and already we are seeing many major appointments of people of Indian origin by Biden/Harris, e.g. Neera Tanden (Director of the Office of Management and Budget), Vivek Murthy (U.S. Surgeon General), etc.

 

[Giannis]

I find it ironic when Pakistanis in Pakistan support Trump with no regard for Muslims in America, some even wishing ill upon us yet at the same time they hate Modi and worry about Muslims in India and other places. I blame it on ignorance.

 

[Stewie]

Republican presidents have generally been pro-Pakistan. You can go back to Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

On the other hand, democrat presidents have been quite pro-India. e.g. Clinton. Obama (democrat) had the most drone attacks on Pakistan and killed countless innocents. Biden was VP for Obama for 8 years so don't expect anything different from Obama. Biden's VP Kamala Harris is Indian and already we are seeing many major appointments of people of Indian origin by Biden/Harris, e.g. Neera Tanden (Director of the Office of Management and Budget), Vivek Murthy (U.S. Surgeon General), etc.

That part is true. But I would like to add that Dems typically favor minorities so that’s the reason why you are seeing this. There are pakistani origin Americans in his team as well. If I am not mistaken one of his campaign managers was a Pakistani American.

But it’s true that republicans mostly have pro Pakistani policies than Dems.
But then again it’s because of the politician landscape. During the Cold War era, they were with us because India had leaned towards Soviet Union. After the Soviet Union crumbled, they really did not care during the Clinton era till india tested their nukes and so did we and we both got hit by sanctions. Then during Bush era they sided with us because they needed our help with their war on terror. But now that’s also over with in a way. So I don’t think either republicans or Dems will favor pakistan at this point to begin with unless they plan on staying in afghanistan for long.

You guys have to understand that neither party’s political philosophies actually promote bhai chara with Pakistan. It’s all based on national interests. Of the situation calls for it ye khotey ko bhi baap bana letey hein. That’s how it is mostly. The best we can hope for is that Biden maintains at worse a neutral perspective on the subcontinental power struggle. Logic dictates it will be tough because of our closeness to China. So what really happens remains to be seen.

 

[Stewie]

I find it ironic when Pakistanis in Pakistan support Trump with no regard for Muslims in America, some even wishing ill upon us yet at the same time they hate Modi and worry about Muslims in India and other places. I blame it on ignorance.

That’s the part that hurts me .. seems like pakistanis or Muslims in America hold no meaning to them. We have lived in fear since trump took over.

 

[Giannis]

That’s the part that hurts me .. seems like pakistanis or Muslims in America hold no meaning to them. We have lived in fear since trump took over.

I've experienced worse when I visited Pakistan; there's a lot of hostility towards American-Pakistanis, I just blame it on the lack of education. Majority of Pakistanis I came across and that includes the "educated" (on paper) middle class had no idea there were Muslims in America, some of them couldn't understand why I was a Pakistani-American, like people had no basic grasp over the difference of ethnicity and nationality. It's just ignorance, people make fun of Americans for being dumb but the stuff I saw in Pakistan was a whole 'nother level and I'm sure it's the same in India and other developing countries.

 

[Greenstorm]

Non Americans, specially those living in third world countries at most expect the US president not to invade other countries. Trump has done that and even though I do not 'like' him, I prefer him over the likes of Obama and Bush.

 

[Bigboii]

That’s the part that hurts me .. seems like pakistanis or Muslims in America hold no meaning to them. We have lived in fear since trump took over.

I haven't, hell I live in Trump county the first one who should be scared is one Muslim family in a white town

But turns out there isn't a lot to fear as Muslims specifically (expect for the general direction country is headed to)


If you watch MSNBC on a daily basis of course you would fear for your well being, any sane person would

Don't let the media further devide the people (for both sides)
Fox started this fear politics business and now left is catching up to it pretty fast


Yes the country has a lot of catching up to do in race relations

But fear is a very strong word imo

 

[Greenstorm]

I find it ironic when Pakistanis in Pakistan support Trump with no regard for Muslims in America, some even wishing ill upon us yet at the same time they hate Modi and worry about Muslims in India and other places. I blame it on ignorance.

There is no comparison with the state of Muslims in Modi's India and the Trump's America. Minorities will always face some issues but from the outside, I don't think that American Muslims are being persecuted.

 

[Bigboii]

There is no comparison with the state of Muslims in Modi's India and the Trump's America. Minorities will always face some issues but from the outside, I don't think that American Muslims are being persecuted.

They're literally lynching Muslims, Muslims in that country are socialy right at the bottom

Meanwhile Muslims in US live in nice houses where our per capita income is higher than the rest of the country
We are educated/ professional class

And we are scared for our lives because orange guy is saying that we should ban 7 Muslim countries (stupid and racist, not justifying it)

These two things really don't add up in my head...

 

[Greenstorm]

They're literally lynching Muslims, Muslims in that country are socialy right at the bottom

Meanwhile Muslims in US live in nice houses where our per capita income is higher than the rest of the country
We are educated/ professional class

And we are scared for our lives because orange guy is saying that we should ban 7 Muslim countries (stupid and racist, not justifying it)

These two things really don't add up in my head...

This. American Muslims should hit the gym and toughen up if they feel scared. Probably can take some inspiration from Brit Pakistanis in that regard.

 

[gazza619]

I actually dont like Trump but I like the fact that he was a lesser war monger then the gentle faced Obama.

Minorities in the US were suppressed under Trump though.

 

[bones]

What difference does it make? Trump, Obama, Biden, Clinton etc etc are all middle management anyway.

 

[Technics 1210]

it's not just Pakistanis that like Trump, people of all races and nations around the world like him, blacks, latinos, and women in USA too.

The double standard the left display can be observed in the OP. Trump is a racist whose motive is personal gain, yet other leaders like Biden, are also motivated by personal gain, have made racist statements in the past, but is flawed like most humans are. Why not say Trump is a flawed human being too?

Trump is an entertainer, he's unconventional, shoots from the hip, and has made politics exciting. He speaks what most people think, such as calling out media bias. He's not warmongering like the rest of them. And so on.

But hey, anyone supporting Trump is a racist, according to the left, expect for the decent guys, who were brainwashed.

 

[Stewie]

I haven't, hell I live in Trump county the first one who should be scared is one Muslim family in a white town

But turns out there isn't a lot to fear as Muslims specifically (expect for the general direction country is headed to)


If you watch MSNBC on a daily basis of course you would fear for your well being, any sane person would

Don't let the media further devide the people (for both sides)
Fox started this fear politics business and now left is catching up to it pretty fast


Yes the country has a lot of catching up to do in race relations

But fear is a very strong word imo

Fear comes in a lot of different forms. Do you have young children who go to all white schools and get asked stupid questions about their religion and “where they are from?” When America is all they know?

There was a certain sensitivity around this before whereas now it’s open season on all minorities because of trump.

Living in a good neighborhood, amongst all whites, professional career, etc doesn’t protect you or your children against this form of racism which can be pretty disturbing for young minds.

 

[Pakpak]

I actually dont like Trump but I like the fact that he was a lesser war monger then the gentle faced Obama.

Minorities in the US were suppressed under Trump though.

???

He almost cost a war with Iran. Infact he did his utmost to provoke them by killing their army chief. Imagine if India killed Bajwa. Calling that act war mongering infact would be an understatement.

He would have also 100 percent battered Syria, luckily for Syria when Trump came in power the war was dying down and Russians and the Turks seemed embedded deep into Syria for Trump to do anything. Otherwise if this was 2014 Syria Trump would have 100 percent gone for it.

He has also completely changed the Palestinian issue, irreversibly for the Palestinians. They will probably be denied their land forever. Being caged like animals. Empowering the Israelis to do that by recognising Jerusalem as their capital was worse than war mongering.

Drone strikes by Obama were war crimes but all of them were agreed on by Pakistanis. Even from the Mush era there are satallite pictures of US drones from Pakistani bases. Numerous books from established authors have since then given a lot of accounts of Pakistanis agreeing with the drone strikes but telling the US we will deny it in public. A lot of the times drone targets were given to the US by Pakistani intelligence. Later on when Pakistan realised that TTP was backed by KHAD near the border and the US wouldn't kill them we then started to give the US false signals so they would target TTP thinking they're targeting someone else. Our shameless political apparatus is as guilty of the drone strikes. Compare it to Imran Khan. Absolutely no way he would ever let the US get away with anything.

Trump is a fascist, an open racist, his biggest supporters in the West are organisations who consider people like you filth and scumbags. It's absolutely baffling the support he gets.

 

[Gayle_Force]

I don’t think it is a matter of like or dislike. However, the reduced involvement of US government in Pakistan’s internal matters is probably what most Pakistanis welcomed.

I believe the constant ‘Do More’ rhetoric and high number of drone strikes during the Obama presidency caused a lot of frustration among Pakistanis.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t think it is a matter of like or dislike. However, the reduced involvement of US government in Pakistan’s internal matters is probably what most Pakistanis welcomed.

I believe the constant ‘Do More’ rhetoric and high number of drone strikes during the Obama presidency caused a lot of frustration among Pakistanis.

Agree.


Pakistanis in Pakistan have seen a thaw in relationships since Trump has been in office. Trump openly spoke about Kashmir in a press conference, agreed Pakistan is an important nation esp when it comes to getting out of Afghanistan and showed a lot of respect to their leader.

With many other people from all over the world, they see Trump as a man who doesnt really care of hurting other nations but enjoying life as President. With the likes of Obama and Biden, they cant be trusted at all.

 

[Pakpak]

Agree.


Pakistanis in Pakistan have seen a thaw in relationships since Trump has been in office. Trump openly spoke about Kashmir in a press conference, agreed Pakistan is an important nation esp when it comes to getting out of Afghanistan and showed a lot of respect to their leader.

With many other people from all over the world, they see Trump as a man who doesnt really care of hurting other nations but enjoying life as President. With the likes of Obama and Biden, they cant be trusted at all.

It's not Trump. It's Imran khan. The US kept saying do more because we had a duffer and fool in charge in Nawaz who would refuse to say anything on India AT ALL. We had no diplomatic defence whatsoever. The Americans now know Imran Khan won't take their **. He didn't take MBS's nonsense either. When your main man doesn't bend and has balls the world respects you more. And to add Nawaz's speaking skills and diplomatic skills were as honed and intelligent as a ten year old who couldn't even talk to Obama without a parchi in his hand. Pathetic fraud.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It's not Trump. It's Imran khan. The US kept saying do more because we had a duffer and fool in charge in Nawaz who would refuse to say anything on India AT ALL. We had no diplomatic defence whatsoever. The Americans now know Imran Khan won't take their **. He didn't take MBS's nonsense either. When your main man doesn't bend and has balls the world respects you more. And to add Nawaz's speaking skills and diplomatic skills were as honed and intelligent as a ten year old who couldn't even talk to Obama without a parchi in his hand. Pathetic fraud.

Agree Khan had a much to do with it. However Trump is a celeb, loves the limelight of sitting with famous world leaders so was ready to mention Kashmir. Lets see if Biden and Harris(who is part Indian) will be open to mentioning Kashmir when IK again brings up the issue and asks US(and others) to stand up to the state terrorism of India. If I had to bet, Id bet against Biden & Harris mentioning this.

 

[Pakpak]

Agree Khan had a much to do with it. However Trump is a celeb, loves the limelight of sitting with famous world leaders so was ready to mention Kashmir. Lets see if Biden and Harris(who is part Indian) will be open to mentioning Kashmir when IK again brings up the issue and asks US(and others) to stand up to the state terrorism of India. If I had to bet, Id bet against Biden & Harris mentioning this.

Harris is in very bad books when it comes to BJP due to her comments on India before and has no love in the Modi regime. The US mentioning or not mentioning it doesn't make a difference as no other nation takes India seriously anymore. They're not defended by the EU or the UK either. The US's power is seriously diminishing, the Chinese are set to overtake their economy in five years and their military is gaining more power. So whatever the US thinks on Kashmir wouldn't matter. What matters is we have someone in power who defends the country diplomatically and effectively. Daily mail is an example. They have reduced a lot of their trash on Pakistan because Khan knew a lot of Daily Mail media people from back in the day. PCB has done good work but it's absolutely due to ik's British contacts that England are coming this year. We all know now any country trashing Pakistan diplomatically will get a response or a reply defending ourselves. Instead of frauds like Nawaz. Also you should read memogate. And you'll still be amazed we are standing and alive as a nation despite the attempts of these frauds and criminals to sell our country out.

 

[Bigboii]

Fear comes in a lot of different forms. Do you have young children who go to all white schools and get asked stupid questions about their religion and “where they are from?” When America is all they know?

There was a certain sensitivity around this before whereas now it’s open season on all minorities because of trump.

Living in a good neighborhood, amongst all whites, professional career, etc doesn’t protect you or your children against this form of racism which can be pretty disturbing for young minds.

Honestly US was always like this
I always face/faced these questions in HS, to having a conversation with a Uber driver who ends up asking where I am from (my accent is American) smh

My little brother face these questions in NYC to white nieghborhood
Trump didn't suddenly made these questions come up they were there in obama years too

I know it because it happened to me (my school years were in Obama's time in NYC)

Trump just made us super analyze these subtle racist things (hell my friends ask me where I am from so it's very subconscious/primal racism)

 

[KingKhanWC]

Harris is in very bad books when it comes to BJP due to her comments on India before and has no love in the Modi regime. The US mentioning or not mentioning it doesn't make a difference as no other nation takes India seriously anymore. They're not defended by the EU or the UK either. The US's power is seriously diminishing, the Chinese are set to overtake their economy in five years and their military is gaining more power. So whatever the US thinks on Kashmir wouldn't matter. What matters is we have someone in power who defends the country diplomatically and effectively. Daily mail is an example. They have reduced a lot of their trash on Pakistan because Khan knew a lot of Daily Mail media people from back in the day. PCB has done good work but it's absolutely due to ik's British contacts that England are coming this year. We all know now any country trashing Pakistan diplomatically will get a response or a reply defending ourselves. Instead of frauds like Nawaz. Also you should read memogate. And you'll still be amazed we are standing and alive as a nation despite the attempts of these frauds and criminals to sell our country out.

I know the danger Pakistan was in after 911, it would have turned into Iraq if not for nukes and a strong army. IK of course isnt anybodys lapdog, he will defend his nation and rightly so. I was only addressing why I feel Pakistanis prefed Trump after Obama but they will wait to see how Biden/Harris respond to them. It could be a while as Yanks have their own problems atm but when the time comes if Biden/Harris lean towards India on Kashmir, it will make the Pakistanis feel Trump was better all along. IF they make good comments, they will see them as better than Trump.

My person opinion is dont trust any American poltician as history has proven, they only care about their own interests.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Yes but he was/is ready to go to war with Iran. I think a lot of our “perception” about him on war is wrong.
Some of it is derived from our views of Obama and Syria and ISIS which was not entirely Obama’s fault although he did play a solid hand in it. Given the same situation, how Trump would have reacted is entirely conjecture.

But yes, it’s true, he was mainly looking out for his own business interests which were real estate and building rather than war profiteering. Some people consider that a positive. I honestly didn’t think it was something that would convince me to support him.

I wouldn't say that . Iran gave him plenty an opportunity to start a war but he walked a fine line. For all his faults , I'd will give him credit for not starting any new wars. He talked a big game but did not start any conflicts .

 

[KingKhanWC]

I wouldn't say that . Iran gave him plenty an opportunity to start a war but he walked a fine line. For all his faults , I'd will give him credit for not starting any new wars. He talked a big game but did not start any conflicts .

This is true, there was a lot of pressue on him to attack Iran but he wouldnt go there. In the end he had to attack the General to keep the Zionists happy.

 

[Pakpak]

I know the danger Pakistan was in after 911, it would have turned into Iraq if not for nukes and a strong army. IK of course isnt anybodys lapdog, he will defend his nation and rightly so. I was only addressing why I feel Pakistanis prefed Trump after Obama but they will wait to see how Biden/Harris respond to them. It could be a while as Yanks have their own problems atm but when the time comes if Biden/Harris lean towards India on Kashmir, it will make the Pakistanis feel Trump was better all along. IF they make good comments, they will see them as better than Trump.

My person opinion is dont trust any American poltician as history has proven, they only care about their own interests.

Your last line for sure I definitely agree with. Trusting any US leader is completely foolish. In a way I'm glad we are moving beyond depending on them especially military hardware we buy. I just hope Imran Khan stays for the next decade.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Your last line for sure I definitely agree with. Trusting any US leader is completely foolish. In a way I'm glad we are moving beyond depending on them especially military hardware we buy. I just hope Imran Khan stays for the next decade.

Pak must improve trade between the two, there is huge potential. Regardless of who is in power, this is the only thing which will really make a difference to the people of Pakistan. I believe this has improved in the last 4 years and under Biden should improve more. Maybe the Yanks have finally realised they are dealing with a tough nation not a little country with no power or influence.

 

[Stewie]

I wouldn't say that . Iran gave him plenty an opportunity to start a war but he walked a fine line. For all his faults , I'd will give him credit for not starting any new wars. He talked a big game but did not start any conflicts .

Are you serious?

Are you sure you do t mean the other way around with Iranian official assassinations?

 

[Pakpak]

Are you serious?

Are you sure you do t mean the other way around with Iranian official assassinations?

Imagine if India took out Bajwa. That's what Trump did to Iran.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Are you serious?

Are you sure you do t mean the other way around with Iranian official assassinations?

I mean they did straight up fired a bunch of missiles at a US base . Any war Hawk president would've ran with it . Its way more a reason than fake WMD's . I am in no way a Trump supporter but credit where its due man.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I mean they did straight up fired a bunch of missiles at a US base . Any war Hawk president would've ran with it . Its way more a reason than fake WMD's . I am in no way a Trump supporter but credit where its due man.

Trump has been pressured into striking Iran since he took office. He was smart to get out of the Iran deal, meaning no inspections, means no proof of WMD/Nukes to attack Iran. A year later in June 2019 his whole military was ready to strike Iran but Trump refused in the end. He took the choice(dont agree with it) to kill the Iranian General but as you say soon after dozens of US soldiers were injured in a rocket attack but Trump called it evens and moved on. An attack on Iran could cause the world into a new deadly war possibly leading to world conflicts.

 

[LongHorn]

His attempt to have a Muslim ban entry policy should have sent alarm bells ringing to our anti war Pakistani friends..

Imagine, he tried to ban Muslims coming in..
Even though local gun crime accounted for more deaths then any Muslim terrorist act...

Your last bit is true. But did Trump advocate for a ban on Muslims? Or was it a ban on citizens of some Muslim majority countries?

Any ban aimed to be a"Muslim ban" would have had Pakistanis banned before anyone else, as their citizens have the Ummah belief more than any other country

 

[LongHorn]

Your average Gulf Arab doesn't care at all about recognising Israel or not hence the total apathy of Arabs in the Gulf when UAE and other Gulf nations recognised Israel.

Your knowledge of the Gulf is probably not deep which is why you said that....

If you followed what happened there over last decade or so you would know that Trump or no Trump, UAE and Oman were 2 countries which would gladly have started relations with Israel

As for apathy, again you are wrong

2 Gulf countries started full relations; Bahrain and UAE

While there many be some apathy in Bahrain, in UAE, many natives in Dubai an Abu Dhabi are mostly ecstatic at starting relations....you probably never saw the videos of UAE citizens decking their kids up in Israeli flags and making them sing Hatikvah....

Sharjah and other emirates are not in favor but their opinion doesnt carry much weight

In the entire world there is just 1 country where it is now illegal to publicly criticize Israel's occupation, and no it is not USA nor Israel.

 

[LongHorn]

As for Trump being anti war, we do not know how he would have acted if he won a second term, he may well have bombed some countries.
But one thing is for sure, Trump does not like the idea of sending troops to other countries to attack them

 

[Stewie]

Trump doesn’t like to send troops anywhere because his business is different.

Bush and his friends profited from wars. People say a lot about Obama but I don’t think he personally profited from the whole Arab spring and Syria mess but he did cause it out of some misplaced and misguided notion of bringing democracy to the region.

Trump’s business is real estate. He benefits from tourism. Wars don’t help with that. But let’s not make any mistake here in understanding he did not have the best interests of anybody but himself in heart.

 

[Technics 1210]

The Muslim ban was from 8 countries. The 8 countires were identified by Obama administration well before Trump. The ban was due to the 8 said governments refusing to share citizen information; hence the ban from entering the USA.

These looney lefties spread more lies and hate than anyone on earth. They make the far right look like a summer picnic.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Your last bit is true. But did Trump advocate for a ban on Muslims? Or was it a ban on citizens of some Muslim majority countries?

Any ban aimed to be a"Muslim ban" would have had Pakistanis banned before anyone else, as their citizens have the Ummah belief more than any other country

Have you some quantified data that led you to determine this or is this a reflection of your own national/religious bias?

 

[Pakpak]

Your knowledge of the Gulf is probably not deep which is why you said that....

If you followed what happened there over last decade or so you would know that Trump or no Trump, UAE and Oman were 2 countries which would gladly have started relations with Israel

As for apathy, again you are wrong

2 Gulf countries started full relations; Bahrain and UAE

While there many be some apathy in Bahrain, in UAE, many natives in Dubai an Abu Dhabi are mostly ecstatic at starting relations....you probably never saw the videos of UAE citizens decking their kids up in Israeli flags and making them sing Hatikvah....

Sharjah and other emirates are not in favor but their opinion doesnt carry much weight

In the entire world there is just 1 country where it is now illegal to publicly criticize Israel's occupation, and no it is not USA nor Israel.

Do you even know what apathy means? It means lack of interest, you've listed all the countries who were happy to start relations with them. Your post basically meant what I said, look up the word in the dictionary. My post meant the Arabs couldn't care either way and don't really give two hoots about Palestine. Which is the truth. Only our people back home think there would have some sort of Arab rebellion if these nations recognised Israel. When we know the people in these nations do not care at all.

I have lived in the Gulf FYI for 2 years.

 

[IMMY69]

Your last bit is true. But did Trump advocate for a ban on Muslims? Or was it a ban on citizens of some Muslim majority countries?

Any ban aimed to be a"Muslim ban" would have had Pakistanis banned before anyone else, as their citizens have the Ummah belief more than any other country

Do your research..
His 2015 he called for a full Muslim ban.
Even the republicans rounded on him.

Then when he came to power he had to limit the countries...

Also ask yourself how did Iran get on the list and not Saudi Arabia?
From 2010 to 2015 Trump's whole argument on Islamic terrorism was that Iran didn't export terrorism and that it was Wahabi's that are spreading terrorism.

 

[IMMY69]

Trump on muslims, before and after


https://youtu.be/pBllGPXNx_I

 

[shaz619]

Don’t like Trump but his actions speak louder then words as far as war mongering is concerned globally, his America first view largely ignored murdering muslim women and children in cold blood overseas so on that point he was quiet refreshing. However, for US citizens Trump is obviously not ideal for relations between all communities.

 

[shaz619]

My views lean more towards the left but it can’t be denied, Trump did not continue the genocide of Muslims like Bush/Obama. Perhaps he rustled a few arab lovers though but these people have an inferiority complex and thus must be happy about muslims in the subcontinent being butchered.

 

[Tubs]

It may be the traditional views, such as anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, seemingly religious (though it's laughable that everyone thinks Trump is some super religious guy, when Biden attends Church every Sunday) which many Pakistanis identify with. Trump also campaigned on being anti-war, so while he didn't start any new ones, he did more drone strikes than Obama, refused to pull out the troops like he said he did, and tried to start war with Iran to get re-elected. Many ignorant Pakistanis won't really care about Iran as they are Shia, so that isn't too much of an issue to them. Also, while I agree that the US never should have entered the Middle East, many Pakistanis (and Muslims around the world) think it's simply an attempt to subjugate Muslims (which is victim-mentality at its highest), so they think that Trump not starting any new wars means he's pretty good (again, he really did try).

They also seem to forget about the travel ban from Muslim-majority countries....

 

[Stewie]

I don’t think religiosity has anything to do with it. Besides trump has cheated on his wife a d openly talks about women in degrading ways (in fact in quite vulgar language)

I think it’s mostly his so called anti war rep that’s appealed to Pakistanis. And also the fact they personally enjoy his brash and idiotic rhetoric (it’s really comedic if you don’t care much for American politics)

 

[Pakpak]

It may be the traditional views, such as anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, seemingly religious (though it's laughable that everyone thinks Trump is some super religious guy, when Biden attends Church every Sunday) which many Pakistanis identify with. Trump also campaigned on being anti-war, so while he didn't start any new ones, he did more drone strikes than Obama, refused to pull out the troops like he said he did, and tried to start war with Iran to get re-elected. Many ignorant Pakistanis won't really care about Iran as they are Shia, so that isn't too much of an issue to them. Also, while I agree that the US never should have entered the Middle East, many Pakistanis (and Muslims around the world) think it's simply an attempt to subjugate Muslims (which is victim-mentality at its highest), so they think that Trump not starting any new wars means he's pretty good (again, he really did try).

They also seem to forget about the travel ban from Muslim-majority countries....

Pretty much spot on. That's what I always say. The far right loons have everything in common with your average far right extreme religious warrior. Both hate and dislike the exact same things. And the war thing I have also said that Trump tried his very best to start a new horrible war with Iran which would have eventually spilled over in Pakistan.

I agree with [MENTION=17315]Stewie[/MENTION] too that Trump has made life difficult for the minorities in the US. I mean I have plenty of friends in the US (some are white) who would be baffled that he gets support by some Pakistanis.

 

[Stewie]

Modern day Pakistanis in the west don’t care about conservative western values.
We have learned to reconcile our lives as Muslims with liberal values because the liberals have the more inclusive policies for minorities.

In the US conservatism is used as a code word for “let’s keep the country in the hands of rich white men” and they look at conservatives of color as token “let’s throw this guy a bone here” minority inclusions. But God forbid they actually try to change and wake up to the 21st century. It doesn’t happen.

And yes when I say minority. I mean whites women as well. They are also a minority. Look at trumps cabinet picks in 2016. All white men..

Not saying it’s bad if it’s based on merit ... but it’s usually not.

But I digress. The point I was trying to make was:American conservatism has little to do with religiosity.
It’s basically a set of values to keep America as it always was.. dominated by White Males with little to no room for minorities.

Muslims in the US have understood that and that is the reason most of us stand with Jews, Blacks, Latinos, LGBTQ people, etc.. because even though our faith says homosexuality is immoral, we have become more sympathetic to their cause due to our own disenfranchisement with the system particularly after 9/11. We value the equal standing of all types more, and the rest is basically down to “whatever you do in your own house is not my problem” kind of thing which I believe is how it should be.

Anyways this became a hodgepodge of a post but I just wanted to share my thoughts on why religiosity does not have anything at all to do with Muslims supporting trump.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Modern day Pakistanis in the west don’t care about conservative western values.
We have learned to reconcile our lives as Muslims with liberal values because the liberals have the more inclusive policies for minorities.

In the US conservatism is used as a code word for “let’s keep the country in the hands of rich white men” and they look at conservatives of color as token “let’s throw this guy a bone here” minority inclusions. But God forbid they actually try to change and wake up to the 21st century. It doesn’t happen.

And yes when I say minority. I mean whites women as well. They are also a minority. Look at trumps cabinet picks in 2016. All white men..

Not saying it’s bad if it’s based on merit ... but it’s usually not.

But I digress. The point I was trying to make was:American conservatism has little to do with religiosity.
It’s basically a set of values to keep America as it always was.. dominated by White Males with little to no room for minorities.

Muslims in the US have understood that and that is the reason most of us stand with Jews, Blacks, Latinos, LGBTQ people, etc.. because even though our faith says homosexuality is immoral, we have become more sympathetic to their cause due to our own disenfranchisement with the system particularly after 9/11. We value the equal standing of all types more, and the rest is basically down to “whatever you do in your own house is not my problem” kind of thing which I believe is how it should be.

Anyways this became a hodgepodge of a post but I just wanted to share my thoughts on why religiosity does not have anything at all to do with Muslims supporting trump.

Some home truths in that hodge podge post.

 

[Nadeemp]

Trump doesn’t like to send troops anywhere because his business is different.

Bush and his friends profited from wars. People say a lot about Obama but I don’t think he personally profited from the whole Arab spring and Syria mess but he did cause it out of some misplaced and misguided notion of bringing democracy to the region.

Trump’s business is real estate. He benefits from tourism. Wars don’t help with that. But let’s not make any mistake here in understanding he did not have the best interests of anybody but himself in heart.

agreed