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Why does Hasan Ali get so many wickets?

ExpressPacer

ExpressPacer

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Before I say anything else, I want to make everyone aware that I'm not taking anything away from the guy, he's been brilliant for Pakistan and we are in dire need of his services. HOWEVER, I'm a bit confused as to WHY and HOW he gets so many wickets when I don't see something exceptional in his bowling?

He doesn't have a lot of pace - bowls in the 130's which isn't the hardest to pick, he doesn't swing it usually, he doesn't seam it, he isn't tall and intimidating, he doesn't make use of an awkward action, he never really had a reputation batsmen feared, he doesn't sledge batsmen and he doesn't really have a special seam position either, so this begs the question, what is the reason behind his success in LOI cricket when he isn't doing anything out of the box?

Why is it so hard for batsmen to pick straight 135-142 KPH stuff? My logic is that he's the fast version of Hafeez. Gets through his overs quickly and bowls straight.

[MENTION=141390]Ellipsism[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] [MENTION=139975]The_Odd_One[/MENTION]
 
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Because he does everything you say he doesn't and he's a bowling genius. Hasan is not a one pace bowler. Of late, he's been consistently bowling late 130s and early 140s peaking at 145+. He's only going to get faster. He hasn't maximized his pace potential yet.
 
Agree, there is something unique about him which was visible all throughout the Champions Trophy. Whenever the game seemed to be slipping away from Pakistan, Hassan Ali was given the ball and he produced a break through.

He was easily the best bowler of the tournaments. Always gets that important break through at the right time.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Because he does everything you say he doesn't and he's a bowling genius. Hasan is not a one pace bowler. Of late, he's been consistently bowling late 130s and early 140s peaking at 145+. He's only going to get faster. He hasn't maximized his pace potential yet.
Click to expand...

Agreed with the last bit, he's only going to get faster hereon. However, my question still stands - why has he been so successful off late despite not "maximizing his potentional"?

Whether or not he can do everything you claim to be is yet to be seen. I have seen him swing it and seam it but my point is, he doesn't do it all the time. Most of time, he's a regular bowler who just bowls straight stuff.
 
He does possess everything, i.e swing, reverse swing, seam movement in and out, cutters, yorkers, bouncers, slower balls (multiple types), and on top of that accuracy with pace. As [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] mentioned his pace will increase, personally think his pace will end up like Steyn, around 138-145kph, and when he wants to crank it up, will be 145-150kph.

Another major reason he is successful is that he has a thinking brain, you can possess all the characteristics of bowling in the world but if you don't know how to properly execute them/out think a batsman, well you're going to get smacked all over i.e Sami.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Agreed with the last bit, he's only going to get faster hereon. However, my question still stands - why has he been so successful off late despite not "maximizing his potentional"?

Whether or not he can do everything you claim to be is yet to be seen. I have seen him swing it and seam it but my point is, he doesn't do it all the time. Most of time, he's a regular bowler who just bowls straight stuff.
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You've mainly seen him in the middle overs, you can't expect much lateral movement during that period.

By maximizing potential, I mean that he can become a genuine quick. That does not mean he isn't lively right now. Regarding his wicket taking ability, Hasan is always one step ahead of the batsman and he's got the skillset and control to exploit the weaknesses or offset the batsman's plan whether through slower balls, cutters, change of angle, placing the ball in different areas of the pitch to counter premeditated shots. For example if a batsman gears or shows intent to play on one side of the wicket, Hasan can counter by cramping him for room, placing the ball outside his range or a surprise bouncer. This is just one example. The thought plan varies against different players, conditions and situations.

It's the little subtleties he's mastered to outfox his opponent and his command over the ball is supreme, it has to be when you're 5'9-10.
 
-) Uses his relatively short height to his advantage because he skids the ball which makes him quicker than he actually seems

-) Ability to dip the ball so that it appears fuller than it actually is

-) His natural length is a 'good' length which means batsman are neither comfortable on front-foot nor on back-foot. That's why he mostly hits top of the stumps in his bowled dismissals (Mendis, Parnell, Lakmal, du Plessis etc)

-) Outwits the batsman
 
I argued eleven months ago that it's virtually impossible to succeed at his height. You have to be a genius and a hard worker.

To my surprise, he might well be both. He has come on really well in terms of his ball skills. He just needs to develop his pace and work on his batting.

Misbah looks very foolish for taking his old men Sohail Khan, Imran Khan and Rahat Ali to Australia. Hasan Ali's extra skill against the left-handers would probably have won the Brisbane test, which was narrowly lost.
 
Unlike, for example Wahab Riaz or Sami, Hasan Ali works on batsmen and (from what I observation) bowls on very good length according to batsman/match situation.

+

He can bowl jaffas :D

" And his ball to Wayne Parnell should be shot into space so that the aliens can know how vicious we can be as a species"
https://streamable.com/0sez3 | An eye bleach, if you love fast bowling :D
 
He is having a purple patch but I fear the wheels will come off soon unless he learns the art of containing runs/bowling defensively on flat decks.
 
Stallion__ said:
-) Uses his relatively short height to his advantage because he skids the ball which makes him quicker than he actually seems

-) Ability to dip the ball so that it appears fuller than it actually is

-) His natural length is a 'good' length which means batsman are neither comfortable on front-foot nor on back-foot. That's why he mostly hits top of the stumps in his bowled dismissals (Mendis, Parnell, Lakmal, du Plessis etc)

-) Outwits the batsman
Click to expand...

The "good" length will become his weakness in ODI's on flat wickets where batsman can cow corner him or hit through the line unless he learns the art of defensive bowling.
 
He doesn't swing and doesn't seam it? He gets most of his wickets with that big freaking in-dipper lmao.
 
msb314 said:
He is having a purple patch but I fear the wheels will come off soon unless he learns the art of containing runs/bowling defensively on flat decks.
Click to expand...

The pitches in England are supposed to be the flattest wickets in the world. But yeah, let's see how he does in Asian conditions.
 
Stallion__ said:
-) Uses his relatively short height to his advantage because he skids the ball which makes him quicker than he actually seems

-) Ability to dip the ball so that it appears fuller than it actually is

-) His natural length is a 'good' length which means batsman are neither comfortable on front-foot nor on back-foot. That's why he mostly hits top of the stumps in his bowled dismissals (Mendis, Parnell, Lakmal, du Plessis etc)

-) Outwits the batsman
Click to expand...

I think this has been the best explanation to the question that I had.
 
Junaids said:
I argued eleven months ago that it's virtually impossible to succeed at his height. You have to be a genius and a hard worker.

To my surprise, he might well be both. He has come on really well in terms of his ball skills. He just needs to develop his pace and work on his batting.

Misbah looks very foolish for taking his old men Sohail Khan, Imran Khan and Rahat Ali to Australia. Hasan Ali's extra skill against the left-handers would probably have won the Brisbane test, which was narrowly lost.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to play a 23 year old with a fragile frame in all three formats of the game?
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Unlike, for example Wahab Riaz or Sami, Hasan Ali works on batsmen and (from what I observation) bowls on very good length according to batsman/match situation.

+

He can bowl jaffas :D

" And his ball to Wayne Parnell should be shot into space so that the aliens can know how vicious we can be as a species"
https://streamable.com/0sez3 | An eye bleach, if you love fast bowling :D
Click to expand...

The second bit of what you said is actually very important, few of us actually realise that bowling 'jaffas' is an actual ability and very few bowlers possesses this ability. Out of nowhere Hasan Ali bowls deliveries you'll never see.
 
Red Devil said:
He doesn't swing and doesn't seam it? He gets most of his wickets with that big freaking in-dipper lmao.
Click to expand...

Sure but I wouldn't call it proper swing or seam. Swing is what Amir does, banana swing. And seam is what Junaid does where the ball moves around like a sparrow. Hasan Ali has gentle movement yet has found most success. I think the credit goes to his intelligence as a bowler, which not only includes him working out the batsmen but also his cutters.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
You've mainly seen him in the middle overs, you can't expect much lateral movement during that period.

By maximizing potential, I mean that he can become a genuine quick. That does not mean he isn't lively right now. Regarding his wicket taking ability, Hasan is always one step ahead of the batsman and he's got the skillset and control to exploit the weaknesses or offset the batsman's plan whether through slower balls, cutters, change of angle, placing the ball in different areas of the pitch to counter premeditated shots. For example if a batsman gears or shows intent to play on one side of the wicket, Hasan can counter by cramping him for room, placing the ball outside his range or a surprise bouncer. This is just one example. The thought plan varies against different players, conditions and situations.

It's the little subtleties he's mastered to outfox his opponent and his command over the ball is supreme, it has to be when you're 5'9-10.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a good explanation. So it's basically his intelligence as a bowler that leads him bowling variations, cutters and working out the batsman's technique that has brought him success instead of primarily relying on pace, swing or seam. I think that shows that he has it in him to thrive in most conditions because he is open to making changes to his bowling.
 
He bowls very accurately and according to his field. Pressure is built from him and bowlers at the other end. He also has great variety such as slower balls, cutters and a variety of balls. Bowls a good yorker, good short ball etc Batsmen don't know what to expect from him. One thing he needs to work on though is no balls because he is a great find overall. Remember that ball to Parnell? He bowls perfect line and length so it's no surprise he takes wickets
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Because he does everything you say he doesn't and he's a bowling genius. Hasan is not a one pace bowler. Of late, he's been consistently bowling late 130s and early 140s peaking at 145+. He's only going to get faster. He hasn't maximized his pace potential yet.
Click to expand...

This.

Hasan has all the weapons that the OP claims he doesn't.
 
ExpressPacer said:
Are you willing to play a 23 year old with a fragile frame in all three formats of the game?
Click to expand...

Good point.

I'd do what New Zealand did with Trent Boult. Save him for Tests only (plus World Cups) until his body matures.
 
Junaids said:
Good point.

I'd do what New Zealand did with Trent Boult. Save him for Tests only (plus World Cups) until his body matures.
Click to expand...

I was of the opinion that you only play him LOI's for now and bring him into the Test arena at a latter stage however, this is a good suggestion too considering you get the best of both worlds with him playing important tournaments but also important Test tours.
 
Hasan Ali can swing and seam the ball. You're just not going to see much swing with the white Kookaburra - but he did utilise reverse swing to good effect in the CT. He has the ability to vary things up, having a good bouncer and yorker.

I don't know why PPers keep underestimating his pace, he has bowled 140kph+ spells. Take a look at his new ball spells in the PSL.

I really look forward to see what he can do with the red Dukes ball in England next May. He'll be a handful in those conditions.
 
What are you talking about? He does seam and swing the ball, his seam position is pretty decent (we will not find out how good it is until he takes the new ball). The main thing is he keeps things simple and his basics are pretty good and seems to know what is the best length to bowl on a pitch very quick.

He has decent pace as well. He is not express but still around about the 140 mark. He has a good bouncer to. For me the main thing is timing. He knows when he should bowl what type of delivery which is important.
 
proud_pakistani said:
What are you talking about? He does seam and swing the ball, his seam position is pretty decent (we will not find out how good it is until he takes the new ball). The main thing is he keeps things simple and his basics are pretty good and seems to know what is the best length to bowl on a pitch very quick.

He has decent pace as well. He is not express but still around about the 140 mark. He has a good bouncer to. For me the main thing is timing. He knows when he should bowl what type of delivery which is important.
Click to expand...

In a few of my previous posts on this thread I've recognized that he does swing and seam the ball however, they are a rarity and seam and swing aren't his main weapons. Not even 10% of his wickets have come through the movement of the ball.
 
Does the OP watches cricket drunk.if there is any movement in the air or off the pitch Hassan will exploit it he is also the best reverse swing bowler in Pakistan.He is way ahead in terms of bowling acumen to Amir.
 
ExpressPacer said:
In a few of my previous posts on this thread I've recognized that he does swing and seam the ball however, they are a rarity and seam and swing aren't his main weapons. Not even 10% of his wickets have come through the movement of the ball.
Click to expand...
In england even Starc and Boult got zilch movement watch the Westindies tour Hassan was one bowler who was doing something with the ball throughout.
 
Xoib said:
Does the OP watches cricket drunk.if there is any movement in the air or off the pitch Hassan will exploit it he is also the best reverse swing bowler in Pakistan.He is way ahead in terms of bowling acumen to Amir.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Even Rahat Ali got more movement than Hasan Ali in England, let alone Amir. However, like I've said before, I'm not taking anything away from him and in fact, I think it only adds to Pakistan's fortunes that we have a bowler who doesn't rely on conditions or swing/seam/pace to take wickets but has a good brain and skillset that reaps him awards.
 
He's bowling to take wickets and he can seam and swing the ball. He's improving every series and I'm sure he will get better.
 
hasan does get swing and is a very good exponent of reverse. Can also seam it if conditions are there.

He always for the stumps and his main focus is to take wickets when u come in with that mindset with the skillset he has then it makes u a dangerous bowler.

Also from what ive seen of him live he is a lot quicker than u think and is skiddy can hurry u as a batsman.
 
hasan wasnt hooping the ball around corners in CT. But he just gets a hint of swing seam and reverse and that was all he needed also a very smart and thinking bowler with fire too.

Rahat for example probably can get more conventional swing but he has a very poor bowling brain and lacks discipline as a bowler not to mention has a very defeatist attitude for a fast bowler.

attitude plays a big part as well.
 
Shows cricketing world would be better off without BCCI - have nothing against the Indian cricket side, I enjoy watching the likes of Kohli, Ashwin, Dhawan and etc but their cicket board is destroying cricket with their monopolistic agendas.

You could see the neutrals were more happy to see Pakistan win the CT final even though they won't express it explicitly because as we know with BCCI they like to censor and control all match commentators and reporters when it comes to India cricket matches, hence why we don't see Ian Chappell commentate in India and why Harsha Bhogle was thrown out.

BCCI is the cancer of cricket
 
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backfootpunch said:
Shows cricketing world would be better off without BCCI - have nothing against the Indian cricket side, I enjoy watching the likes of Kohli, Ashwin, Dhawan and etc but their cicket board is destroying cricket with their monopolistic agendas.

You could see the neutrals were more happy to see Pakistan win the CT final even though they won't express it explicitly because as we know with BCCI they like to censor and control all match commentators and reporters when it comes to India cricket matches, hence why we don't see Ian Chappell commentate in India and why Harsha Bhogle was thrown out.

BCCI is the cancer of cricket
Click to expand...

Believe me, when I say so, that I share your feelings towards BCCI but thoda zyada ho gya :yk
 
ExpressPacer said:
Are you willing to play a 23 year old with a fragile frame in all three formats of the game?
Click to expand...

Why do you claim he has a fragile frame? Because he's small? He hasn't gotten injured even once in his whole international career as far as I can recall.
 
Op talks like Hasan is a 125-130 km medium pacer that New Zealand used to have in the early 2000s. Hasan Ali can bowl 140 kmh, he can do conventional swing, he can do reverse swing, he can seam the ball, he has like 4 different slower balls, he can bowl a good yorker, has a surprise bouncer. Why do you think he wouldn't be successful?
 
aloo paratha said:
Op talks like Hasan is a 125-130 km medium pacer that New Zealand used to have in the early 2000s. Hasan Ali can bowl 140 kmh, he can do conventional swing, he can do reverse swing, he can seam the ball, he has like 4 different slower balls, he can bowl a good yorker, has a surprise bouncer. Why do you think he wouldn't be successful?
Click to expand...

Can you read? I clearly said he bowls in the 130's. Go check his average pace.
 
ExpressPacer said:
I disagree. Even Rahat Ali got more movement than Hasan Ali in England, let alone Amir. However, like I've said before, I'm not taking anything away from him and in fact, I think it only adds to Pakistan's fortunes that we have a bowler who doesn't rely on conditions or swing/seam/pace to take wickets but has a good brain and skillset that reaps him awards.
Click to expand...

Obviously Rahat got more movement. He bowled with the red Duke's ball in England. Hasan bowled with the white Kookaburra. :danish
 
ExpressPacer said:
Can you read? I clearly said he bowls in the 130's. Go check his average pace.
Click to expand...

His average pace is usually in the high 130s, which shows that he bowls quite a lot of balls in the 140s as well. The number of slower balls he bowls towards the latter stages of an innings should be kept in consideration as well. His fastest balls are usually around the 90 MPH mark.
 
Because he is he best odi bowler in the world

Decent Pace -> Tick
Seam -> Tick
Swing -> Tick
Variations -> Tick
Bowling IQ -> Tick
Outfoxing batsmen -> Tick

Only thing which doesnt tick is his height.
 
Gonna echo what most people say, he does most things right, the skills are there, he bowls intelligently and has good accuracy and control.

He does a have a bit less leeway than most, if he gets it wrong he does get tonked. His economy is pretty high in ODIs and was something around 6 runs per over before the champions trophy I believe.

I actually think he will be a better test bowler than LOI bowler.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Because he is he best odi bowler in the world

Decent Pace -> Tick
Seam -> Tick
Swing -> Tick
Variations -> Tick
Bowling IQ -> Tick
Outfoxing batsmen -> Tick

Only thing which doesnt tick is his height.
Click to expand...

Forgot add that he is a skiddy bowler and I love his passion and fighting never give up attitude which also helps in the wicket column.
 
He can move the ball late - and bowling batsmen with inferior defensive technique.

I'll explain this perfectly, when free and I am sure most people'll take that.
 
ExpressPacer said:
I disagree. Even Rahat Ali got more movement than Hasan Ali in England, let alone Amir. However, like I've said before, I'm not taking anything away from him and in fact, I think it only adds to Pakistan's fortunes that we have a bowler who doesn't rely on conditions or swing/seam/pace to take wickets but has a good brain and skillset that reaps him awards.
Click to expand...

That was Hassan debut outing he is one of those cricketers who get better with more games under his belt current Hassan is way better then what he was an year back
 
late swing is his lethal weapon
look at his delivery to morgan and parnell

but i also believe he will be exposed once the purple patch is over
apparently doesn't have anything outstanding
 
ExpressPacer said:
Can you read? I clearly said he bowls in the 130's. Go check his average pace.
Click to expand...

Can you read?

"Op talks like Hasan is a 125-130 km medium pacer that New Zealand used to have in the early 2000s"

Clearly comparing about their skill level. You said he can't seam or swing the ball
 
aloo paratha said:
Why do you claim he has a fragile frame? Because he's small? He hasn't gotten injured even once in his whole international career as far as I can recall.
Click to expand...

He had a groin injury that kept him out for a couple of weeks in the WI but other than that don't think there was any injury.

I think he can play all 3 formats of the game but can skip the unimportant LOI games e.g games against Ire/Zimb.Thats what should be done for all our main bowlers and batsmen.
 
Hasan has all the skills and can bowl consistently in the late 130's/early 140's.He generally bowls at a good length and line.He is a smart,thinking bowler which distinguishes him from some of his peers.Has a bright future ahead.

He is also exceptionally fit.
 
Ahmad Shah said:
late swing is his lethal weapon
look at his delivery to morgan and parnell

but i also believe he will be exposed once the purple patch is over
apparently doesn't have anything outstanding
Click to expand...

well yes, most players, when they do less well, do less well.

but who is to say that will happen any time soon for hasan?
with more experience he will most likely only get better in the next few years.
 
New Yorker said:
well yes, most players, when they do less well, do less well.

but who is to say that will happen any time soon for hasan?
with more experience he will most likely only get better in the next few years.
Click to expand...

Consistency is key. At the moment, Amir is consistent with his economy and that's a decent place to start. Obviously Hasan has been a wicket-taking machine but he needs to consistently look to take at least 2 wickets per game. I don't care for "patches" as much as I care for consistency.
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=140417]idrizzy[/MENTION] [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION]

Just to make it clear guys, I never said he's a medium pace bowler who operates in the 120-130 region. I do recognize that he's able to bowl his faster deliveries in excess of 140 and even at 90 MPH. However, he operates usually in the 130's with most deliveries behind in the late 130's. You can go check his average pace. There's no reason to suggest I said otherwise.

However, the main reason for pointing this out was not to start a debate over the pace he bowls at but rather the fact that it isn't usually his faster delivery that yields him a wicket and that is why it is surprising that without too much pace, he has been successful.
 
I think he has got a bit of everything, swing seam yorker bouncer slow balls reverse and pace.
 
[MENTION=143775]backfootpunch[/MENTION] tbf the sky team atherton n nasser were very obviously pro Pakistan because Pak was the underdog against the BCCI powerful empire. And also they love Pakistans brand of cricket.
 
Really looking forward to seeing him play the Tests next summer in England. Need to take care of him and not play him in meaningless T20s and ODIs. Even with these league contracts like CPL and BPL, I'd much rather the PCB compensated him and kept him away.
 
mmkextreme_1 said:
Another major reason he is successful is that he has a thinking brain, you can possess all the characteristics of bowling in the world but if you don't know how to properly execute them/out think a batsman, well you're going to get smacked all over i.e Sami.
Click to expand...

Yes. His most important asset is the use of length. He uses that thinking brain to adjust the length according to the pitch condition. And then adds on his bag of tricks including seam and swing.
But his most important asset, IMHO, is his ability to adjust length accurately. Last two bowlers who ive seen do it so well were Mcgrath and Asif. Both were way better then Ali of course, but Ali does it very well too.
 
Variation, swings both way, control and bowling IQ with a decent line, pace, and length. Something if Sami and Wahab had, they would be as devastating as Waqar and Wasim. Just look at the CT final wickets of Dhoni and last man. Both surprise deliveries, nothing like what Amit bowled but did the job.
 
I really don't see what's special about him...Amir is as natural as they come in terms of raw ability. I guess it's all these little little things which together make Hasan a special, standout bowler.
 
He has a bowling brain!!
Especially in LOI
Whippy action is deceptive n good with the old ball.
 
Acts like a comedian off the field, but on the field he is a very shrewd and streetwise bowler.

Also in the middle overs, teams expect defensive bowling, instead this lad comes on looks to take wickets from ball one.

A superb find for Pakistan.
 
Saj said:
Acts like a comedian off the field, but on the field he is a very shrewd and streetwise bowler.

Also in the middle overs, teams expect defensive bowling, instead this lad comes on looks to take wickets from ball one.

A superb find for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Why do you describe him as a "comedian" off the field? I think I am missing something. :)
 
Junaids said:
I argued eleven months ago that it's virtually impossible to succeed at his height. You have to be a genius and a hard worker.

To my surprise, he might well be both. He has come on really well in terms of his ball skills. He just needs to develop his pace and work on his batting.

Misbah looks very foolish for taking his old men Sohail Khan, Imran Khan and Rahat Ali to Australia. Hasan Ali's extra skill against the left-handers would probably have won the Brisbane test, which was narrowly lost.
Click to expand...

Junaids, can we assume your now on the Hassan Ali bandwagon? :D
 
He is this generation's Waqar Younis. Not in the fearsome sense or fast bowling sense.

He is similar to Waqar Younis in his temperament and most importantly bowling an attacking length to batsman. Similar to Waqar, Hasan will go for many runs on his off days but with the wicket to wicket length he bowls and heart of a champion bowler he will always pick up wickets even if he is going for runs.
 
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