Why have we not been able to convert our T20I dominance into ODI success?

[BreadPakoda]

Bangladesh is a very poor T20 side tbh. They need big hitters. In ODIs they definitely have the wood over Pak.

 

[Bangladesh_Fan]

Bangladesh is a very poor T20 side tbh. They need big hitters. In ODIs they definitely have the wood over Pak.

- Bangladesh went to West Indies before the Asia Cup and won the full T20I series AWAY from home vs the defending world t20 champions and most successful team in world T20s

- Bangladesh actually has better head to head record vs Pakistan in T20Is winning 2 out of the the 3 matches played in last three years

- In Asia Cup before this one in 2016 they also reached the finals knocking out Pakistan , that was held in Twenty20 format

- In the tri series involving India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh this year they almost won the whole tournament if not for a last ball six

-Almost beat India in India in world t20 in 2016 before grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory

Don't be fooled by one series vs Afghanistan , Bangladesh T20 team is much more capable than that . But the ODI team is definitely more consistent which is why they are lower down in rankings in T20s but they don't play much anyways

 

[Mamoon]

That's a big statement. Based on your logic Bangladesh is the 2nd best T20 side after India. So if the World T20 played in Asia Bangladesh will certainly play in final.

India and England are the two best T20 sides by some distance. There is little to separate between the likes of Pakistan, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Bangladesh at the moment.

West Indies are also there on quick wickets, but Sri Lanka are clearly struggling. Afghanistan can also do some serious damage on slow wickets.

 

[Madplayer]

India and England are the two best T20 sides by some distance. There is little to separate between the likes of Pakistan, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Bangladesh at the moment.

West Indies are also there on quick wickets, but Sri Lanka are clearly struggling. Afghanistan can also do some serious damage on slow wickets.

So Pakistan is the joint number 3rd in t20s as per you?

 

[Sadozai]

In my opinion its due to the poor batting. However, this is young team, which is progressing slowly.

I hope they will fare better in coming years.

 

[Usman Chadda]

India and England are the two best T20 sides by some distance. There is little to separate between the likes of Pakistan, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Bangladesh at the moment.

West Indies are also there on quick wickets, but Sri Lanka are clearly struggling. Afghanistan can also do some serious damage on slow wickets.

You are having a meltdown if you think Bangladesh has any chance in T20s against Pak, Aus, RSA and NZ. Should have stuck to demeaning Pakistan only, as even Bdesh fans will refute this absurd statement.

 

[BreadPakoda]

- Bangladesh went to West Indies before the Asia Cup and won the full T20I series AWAY from home vs the defending world t20 champions and most successful team in world T20s

- Bangladesh actually has better head to head record vs Pakistan in T20Is winning 2 out of the the 3 matches played in last three years

- In Asia Cup before this one in 2016 they also reached the finals knocking out Pakistan , that was held in Twenty20 format

- In the tri series involving India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh this year they almost won the whole tournament if not for a last ball six

-Almost beat India in India in world t20 in 2016 before grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory

Don't be fooled by one series vs Afghanistan , Bangladesh T20 team is much more capable than that . But the ODI team is definitely more consistent which is why they are lower down in rankings in T20s but they don't play much anyways

How do you explain the 10th rank?

One series loss can't explain it for sure. Bangladesh must have lost an awful number of games against other teams too.

 

[topspin]

Transitivity does not work in cricket, not always. Afghanistan have found a way to dominate Bangladesh in recent times but we haven’t. They fail to cope with their big hitters and also their brilliant spinners.

However, our style of play seems to be suit them more. They do not have a good record in T20Is, but there is a reason why they have won two out of three T20Is since 2016.

About time Pakistani fans drop their arrogance with respect to Bangladesh. They have a very good chance of beating Pakistan in both ODIs and T20s anywhere in Asia. They know how to play against us.

It has nothing to do with arrogance, you know very well like yourself I acknowledge that Pakistan isn't a very good team. It's just a case of being brought back to Earth.

Are Bangladesh on their way to becoming a powerhouse in cricket and are they the second best side in Asia? No.

I think they could beat us in tests because our current crop of batsmen don't play spin well these days and I can see the likes of Shakib and their off spinner running through our line up.

Outside Asia - Bangladesh have made no progress. They were lucky to have reached CT Semis with rain when Australia were 100 runs away with 9 wickets in hand and 34 overs to spare. They reached the QF in 2015 WC because England those days simply didn't care about ODI cricket but since then they have climbed up to become a force in white ball cricket, so that has no relevance whatsoever.

Pakistan on the other hand and have still won a CT albeit an "one-off", which should not be conflated to be some kind of fluke. A fluke is when you achieve something by luck rather than skill. If you're going to claim Pakistan CT was a fluke, can we at least acknowledge Bangladesh's semi final appearance in that tournament was also one as well?

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

India and England are the two best T20 sides by some distance. There is little to separate between the likes of Pakistan, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Bangladesh at the moment.

West Indies are also there on quick wickets, but Sri Lanka are clearly struggling. Afghanistan can also do some serious damage on slow wickets.

India.

England is very marginally above Pakistan or almost equal to us. If our batting is shambles, so is their bowling. Maybe Stone and Curran will add something to it but overall their bowling is flat-out mixture of 80 mph bowlers and Rashid.

Nzl

The others. Aus has a load of flat-pitch specialists, same is true for WI, and South Africa haven't really consistenly performed in this format. BD has risen, so has Afghanistan, Parera eleven has regressed dramatically.

I believe on turning pitches, Afg are as good as any team in the world in t20 and idk if Hamid Hassan is still playing or not but if he is fit and firing they are a proper team.

 

[jnaveen1980]

30 extra overs lol

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Two reasons. One, we don’t generally select ODI players from list A cricket, we select them through PSL. Two, we don’t have a PSL like setup at list A level to incentivise youngsters to take up the format. These are the two most identifiable issues. The other issues are rooted in the flaws with the overall cricketing structure in the country which is not going to be the priority of the current or future managements.

 

[topspin]

Transitivity does not work in cricket, not always. Afghanistan have found a way to dominate Bangladesh in recent times but we haven’t. They fail to cope with their big hitters and also their brilliant spinners.

However, our style of play seems to be suit them more. They do not have a good record in T20Is, but there is a reason why they have won two out of three T20Is since 2016.

About time Pakistani fans drop their arrogance with respect to Bangladesh. They have a very good chance of beating Pakistan in both ODIs and T20s anywhere in Asia. They know how to play against us.

After today's showing from Bangladesh it is actually time their fans to drop their arrogance as a matter of fact.

 

[Mamoon]

After today's showing from Bangladesh it is actually time their fans to drop their arrogance as a matter of fact.

Their fans can be as arrogant as they want, but they have a 6-1 record against us over the last 7 ODI/T20 matches. For years, they have had a psychological barrier against which they have managed to overcome. Now, regardless of their form, they are fully capable of outclassing us and our fans have no right to make fun of them.

 

[topspin]

Their fans can be as arrogant as they want, but they have a 6-1 record against us over the last 7 ODI/T20 matches. For years, they have had a psychological barrier against which they have managed to overcome. Now, regardless of their form, they are fully capable of outclassing us and our fans have no right to make fun of them.

This is illogical and you're merely shifting goal posts to fit your narrative. Lets not be disingenuous here and deflect from the fact that they've lost against a very poor Zimbabwe side at home (of all places), when we were told firstly that Pakistan fans should drop their arrogance by yourself and secondly by a Bangladesh fan who claimed his side was on its way to becoming a powerhouse in cricket.

Yes they humiliated us in 2015 in 6 of those 7 LOI games - which I'll make very clear was a team in transition with Azhar Ali as skipper. In addition they also humiliated India and South Africa that year. It was a purple patch and an one-off like our CT run. Now I'm not saying our team is good by any means, we know it's a rubbish side however it wasn't as bad as it was in 2015 when we were ranked 9th and in danger of losing out on the CT.

Bookies would have Pakistan, India and SA heavy favourites on their next ODI tours of Bangladesh.

 

[Mamoon]

This is illogical and you're merely shifting goal posts to fit your narrative. Lets not be disingenuous here and deflect from the fact that they've lost against a very poor Zimbabwe side at home (of all places), when we were told firstly that Pakistan fans should drop their arrogance by yourself and secondly by a Bangladesh fan who claimed his side was on its way to becoming a powerhouse in cricket.

Yes they humiliated us in 2015 in 6 of those 7 LOI games - which I'll make very clear was a team in transition with Azhar Ali as skipper. In addition they also humiliated India and South Africa that year. It was a purple patch and an one-off like our CT run. Now I'm not saying our team is good by any means, we know it's a rubbish side however it wasn't as bad as it was in 2015 when we were ranked 9th and in danger of losing out on the CT.

Bookies would have Pakistan, India and SA heavy favourites on their next ODI tours of Bangladesh.

What goalposts? Please highlight where I have claim that Bangladesh is a top class team today.

Do they have the potential to surpass Pakistan across formats in the next 10-15 years? Yes they do, but they are quite an inconsistent team today and lose a lot of games to minnows and associates.

However, as I said earlier, transitivity does not always work. They have managed to overcome the psychological barrier against and do not fear playing us anymore.

As far as their arrogance is concerned, it is not our place to call them out because of our disgusting attitude towards them over the years, and neither are we in a position to celebrate their failures when we have a terrible losing record against them in the last few years.

I don’t know what the bookies say, but an ODI series between Pakistan and Bangladesh right now would be very close, and of all the major teams today, Pakistan are the most likely to lose to them in a series.

As far as Azhar vs Sarfraz is concerned, I don’t see much difference.

Under Azhar, Pakistan won cheap series against Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe. However, the wheels came off when we played 15 ODIs against full-strength England and Australia in less than 12 months.

We got thrashed and it costed Azhar his captaincy.

Today, Sarfraz’s 9-0 streak against New Zealand, India and Bangladesh is no different to Azhar’s streak against England, Australia and Bangladesh.

The only difference is obviously the Champions Trophy, but it is pretty clear now that it had nothing to do with his captaincy - a few players hit purple patches at the right time and a lot of things went our way.

If it was Sarfraz’s brilliant captaincy that led us to the title, he should have been able to turnaround at least 2-3 out of the 8 games in his team’s favor.

The Champions Trophy was a one-off event and we cannot extrapolate anything from it.

Sarfraz might be a marginally better captain, but the notion that this team is much better than the 2015 and that he has transformed our cricket etc. are complete myths.

9-0 against New Zealand, India and Bangladesh should ring more than just a bell.

 

[topspin]

What goalposts? Please highlight where I have claim that Bangladesh is a top class team today.

Do they have the potential to surpass Pakistan across formats in the next 10-15 years? Yes they do, but they are quite an inconsistent team today and lose a lot of games to minnows and associates.

However, as I said earlier, transitivity does not always work. They have managed to overcome the psychological barrier against and do not fear playing us anymore.

As far as their arrogance is concerned, it is not our place to call them out because of our disgusting attitude towards them over the years, and neither are we in a position to celebrate their failures when we have a terrible losing record against them in the last few years.

I don’t know what the bookies say, but an ODI series between Pakistan and Bangladesh right now would be very close, and of all the major teams today, Pakistan are the most likely to lose to them in a series.

As far as Azhar vs Sarfraz is concerned, I don’t see much difference.

Under Azhar, Pakistan won cheap series against Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe. However, the wheels came off when we played 15 ODIs against full-strength England and Australia in less than 12 months.

We got thrashed and it costed Azhar his captaincy.

Today, Sarfraz’s 9-0 streak against New Zealand, India and Bangladesh is no different to Azhar’s streak against England, Australia and Bangladesh.

The only difference is obviously the Champions Trophy, but it is pretty clear now that it had nothing to do with his captaincy - a few players hit purple patches at the right time and a lot of things went our way.

If it was Sarfraz’s brilliant captaincy that led us to the title, he should have been able to turnaround at least 2-3 out of the 8 games in his team’s favor.

The Champions Trophy was a one-off event and we cannot extrapolate anything from it.

Sarfraz might be a marginally better captain, but the notion that this team is much better than the 2015 and that he has transformed our cricket etc. are complete myths.

9-0 against New Zealand, India and Bangladesh should ring more than just a bell.

I think you'll find many Pakistan fans (including those on PP), who have been well wishers of Bangladesh cricket but just had enough of being told they're "second best team in Asia", "becoming powerhouse in cricket" and etc. The hype brigade deserve to be ridiculed and the reality checks but you're very defensive of Bangladesh supporters for their arrogance which isn't rational whatsoever.

Although the CT was an one-off event, could the same Pakistan team in 2015 (just after the WC) without Fakhar, Hasan Ali and Babar Azam stand a chance of winning that competition in England?

So yes there is a difference in the quality of the sides although not a revolutionising one.

Bangladesh went through a purple patch in 2015 beating 2 of the top 4 ODI sides. So reading this logically, a Pakistan side in transition wouldn't have stood of chance, so it is irrelevant to keep bringing up Pakistan's LOI performances from 3 years ago.

When you're struggling to beat Afghanistan in LOIs and fallen way behind them in T20Is (along with the recent test loss at home against Zimbabwe), it is irrational, illogical and frankly stupid to claim their fans have any basis of arrogance when their team has progressed zilch since their commencement of playing tests (nearly 20 years ago).

I don't often disagree with you, but you're way off the mark here.

 

[Mamoon]

I think you'll find many Pakistan fans (including those on PP), who have been well wishers of Bangladesh cricket but just had enough of being told they're "second best team in Asia", "becoming powerhouse in cricket" and etc. The hype brigade deserve to be ridiculed and the reality checks but you're very defensive of Bangladesh supporters for their arrogance which isn't rational whatsoever.

Although the CT was an one-off event, could the same Pakistan team in 2015 (just after the WC) without Fakhar, Hasan Ali and Babar Azam stand a chance of winning that competition in England?

So yes there is a difference in the quality of the sides although not a revolutionising one.

Bangladesh went through a purple patch in 2015 beating 2 of the top 4 ODI sides. So reading this logically, a Pakistan side in transition wouldn't have stood of chance, so it is irrelevant to keep bringing up Pakistan's LOI performances from 3 years ago.

When you're struggling to beat Afghanistan in LOIs and fallen way behind them in T20Is (along with the recent test loss at home against Zimbabwe), it is irrational, illogical and frankly stupid to claim their fans have any basis of arrogance when their team has progressed zilch since their commencement of playing tests (nearly 20 years ago).

I don't often disagree with you, but you're way off the mark here.

It is perfectly fine if you disagree with me on this, but I believe that it is not our place to call them out for their arrogance considering the thrashings that we have received at their hands in recent times. They hold the bragging rights for now.

 

[topspin]

It is perfectly fine if you disagree with me on this, but I believe that it is not our place to call them out for their arrogance considering the thrashings that we have received at their hands in recent times. They hold the bragging rights for now.

I would find this very hard to say with a straight face in light of the humiliation they have faced. An astonishing thing to say..

 

[BlackShadow]

Because ODIs are taken seriously by other sides.