Why is Chess haram?

[dayvancowboy]

This is just a fatwa , fatwa is basically opinion of a scholar , it cannot be taken as revelation.

These fatwas are much better and more practical in changing the world in a positive way: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Malaysia-and-Indonesia-declare-poaching-haram

This chess fatwa does nothing beneficial for the Ummah.

 

[Justcrazy]

These fatwas are much better and more practical in changing the world in a positive way: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Malaysia-and-Indonesia-declare-poaching-haram

This chess fatwa does nothing beneficial for the Ummah.

Brother , people accepting fatwas depends upon sects they are following.

fatwas can be revised also. I do not think we should be making too much of an issue about this.

 

[Madplayer]

Because there is only one begum

 

[dayvancowboy]

Brother , people accepting fatwas depends upon sects they are following.

fatwas can be revised also. I do not think we should be making too much of an issue about this.

Well if fatwas are dumb and illogical, then we should be making as much of an issue to show how deluded these Saudi muftis are.

 

[Justcrazy]

Well if fatwas are dumb and illogical, then we should be making as much of an issue to show how deluded these Saudi muftis are.

They are living under Monarchy , and think everything is right there . They never dare to speak against this.

 

[Indiafan]

only stupid people with no knowledge think this way or portray their religions as such.

Yes making human beings just to make them worship Him or sending them to hell because they don't want to is a sign of the most mature being

 

[Nostalgic]

Chess should be haram, because it is intrinsically classist. You have the poor soldiers in the front rows sacrificing themselves, while the king and queen are surrounded by their aristocratic henchmen, all of whom are of more value than those poor proletarian foot soldiers.

Play checkers instead. It is egalitarian. Everyone starts off as an equal. To be king, you must prove your valor by reaching deep into enemy territory. Even then, you'll have the wistful awareness that many of your fellow foot soldiers sacrificed their lives so one of their own could be king.

 

[Pace90]

Why is chess haram? I see no logical reason of this and if anyone knows why, please go ahead.

Why chess haram ? Ask the Harami mulla who gave tha fatwa, idiot.

 

[world cup captain]

Chess should be haram, because it is intrinsically classist. You have the poor soldiers in the front rows sacrificing themselves, while the king and queen are surrounded by their aristocratic henchmen, all of whom are of more value than those poor proletarian foot soldiers.

Play checkers instead. It is egalitarian. Everyone starts off as an equal. To be king, you must prove your valor by reaching deep into enemy territory. Even then, you'll have the wistful awareness that many of your fellow foot soldiers sacrificed their lives so one of their own could be king.

Chaliphate in Islam is the same way. One rules while the rest don't get any power.

Why chess haram ? Ask the Harami mulla who gave tha fatwa, idiot.

Calls me an idiot and can't even spell "the" right.

 

[dayvancowboy]

Lives in the West yet obsesses over what is halal and what is haram.

Typical of the Pakistani diaspora these days.

 

[Adil_94]

What is the need to even debate and argue about these things. They are so trivial and meaningless. We have humans going to space uncovering new scientific discoveries and researching the origins of the universe. And then you have people like these. I'm sure Allah doesn't concern himself with a trivial matter like this.

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[aukhan]

Har cheez haram hai in molviyon ki nazar main.

 

[Adil_94]

These same Saudi Sheikhs say other non sensical stuff like the sun revolves around the Earth and the earth is flat. I don't get why anyone living in the UK would follow the example of these mullahs who are so out of touch with reality and the modern world.

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[CricketCartoons]

I thought that one of the best things about Islam was that it did not have a priest class, no intermediary between man and god. How did the mullah class evolve to hold so much influence in Islam?

 

[Adil_94]

I thought that one of the best things about Islam was that it did not have a priest class, no intermediary between man and god. How did the mullah class evolve to hold so much influence in Islam?

The mullahs give uneducated people rules and regulations and simplify things for them. Most people don't have the time or can't be bothered to study Islamic law themselves so they are happy to listen to a Sheikh or mufti who's spent their whole life researching it. And in Islamic states Mullahs are often used to interpret the Sharia for that certain society. In terms of Saudi the house of Saud and Ibn wahab have a long standing political relationship. All the grand Sheikhs of Saudi are descendants from ibn Wahab as a favour for their ideological contribution to the Saudis and their success.

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[PCP_1]

Because when you pick up the bishops to move them and take pleasure in feeling their soft nipplesque heads it is akin to Zina.

 

[endymion248]

Chess should be haram, because it is intrinsically classist. You have the poor soldiers in the front rows sacrificing themselves, while the king and queen are surrounded by their aristocratic henchmen, all of whom are of more value than those poor proletarian foot soldiers.

Play checkers instead. It is egalitarian. Everyone starts off as an equal. To be king, you must prove your valor by reaching deep into enemy territory. Even then, you'll have the wistful awareness that many of your fellow foot soldiers sacrificed their lives so one of their own could be king.

Checkers is not egalitarian though it may be meritocratic. The king is far too powerful and he sacrifices everyone to get to his spot. Once he is there, it is hard for others to become as powerful as him. All social mobility disappears. It is like America to the chess of the UK.

 

[Nostalgic]

Checkers is not egalitarian though it may be meritocratic. The king is far too powerful and he sacrifices everyone to get to his spot. Once he is there, it is hard for others to become as powerful as him. All social mobility disappears. It is like America to the chess of the UK.

Well spotted. Not egalitarian, but meritocratic.

Incidentally, isn't it odd that the erstwhile Soviet Union was so proud of its chess masters, and went to great lengths to promote the game in its schools? Shouldn't they have frowned on a game that promotes a feudal, almost medieval social hierarchy? At the very least, they could've renamed the pieces: Comrade Soldier, Comrade Commander, Comrade Commissar, Comrade KGB Citadel, Comrade Chairman of the Grand Presidium etc.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Talking of Russia and Chess, reminds me of the joke. Why did Gary Kasparov took two hours to pass the salt? The table cloth was checkered.

 

[endymion248]

Well spotted. Not egalitarian, but meritocratic.

Incidentally, isn't it odd that the erstwhile Soviet Union was so proud of its chess masters, and went to great lengths to promote the game in its schools? Shouldn't they have frowned on a game that promotes a feudal, almost medieval social hierarchy? At the very least, they could've renamed the pieces: Comrade Soldier, Comrade Commander, Comrade Commissar, Comrade KGB Citadel, Comrade Chairman of the Grand Presidium etc.

Maybe the king pieces, under soviet ideology, were the people who did the most for the motherland, be they peasants in Kalmykia or astronauts around the orbit. Kings in spirit. After all, if the christian right can make followers of ''camel through needle'' Jesus believe that being rich means that you have the favour of God for your hard work and being poor his wrath against your laziness, I think it would be easy enough for soviets to justify the use of a king in chess (they don't use a queen).

 

[Black Zero]

I do not play checkers but from the setup of board i can imagine that pieces of middle rows will be exchanged soon. Plus, Checker is a violent game as one must take other's piece, if available...

1- In Chess, its true that different pieces have different powers, however we must not ignore their vulnerabilities.
That is the reason, Queen is not moved to center initially as She would become an easy target.

2- Most games involve some exchanges. However not all games involve sacrifices. And, Queen sacrifice is considered artistic.

3- King plays a very active role in endgame. Majority of end games involve pawn(s) and minor piece

4- In Chess, value of piece or of pawn is determined by it's role in specific position. It's not uncommon to have a pawn stronger than Queen.

5- In Chess, its possible to win a game without killing a single pawn or piece.

anyway, I would highly recommend to play (or watch) Chess matches.

 

[Black Zero]

Talking of Russia and Chess, reminds me of the joke. Why did Gary Kasparov took two hours to pass the salt? The table cloth was checkered.

Similar thing happened in http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069906/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

 

[Mamoon]

I did some research on this and found out some interesting facts. This man is a mystic mufti, who believe in purifying the soul of all worldly desires. If Buddha were alive today, he probably would have had the same position.

Yes there is no doubt about the failings of the Muslim world but this is a matter of achieving mysticism and not a matter of fiqh (jurisprudence).

Now this is one long bearded guy that can be considering interesting, if not to be taken seriously.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I did some research on this and found out some interesting facts. This man is a mystic mufti, who believe in purifying the soul of all worldly desires. If Buddha were alive today, he probably would have had the same position.

Buddha preached the Middle Path, between extreme renunciation and indulgence.

 

[Mamoon]

Buddha preached the Middle Path, between extreme renunciation and indulgence.

He believed in the purifying the soul of all worldly desires and pleasures. In some ways, he was an extremist.

 

[CricketCartoons]

He believed in the purifying the soul of all worldly desires and pleasures. In some ways, he was an extremist.

He renunciated everything, but he taught the middle path as the path of wisdom to his followers.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He renunciated everything, but he taught the middle path as the path of wisdom to his followers.

Doesn't that make him a hypocrite

 

[anakin]

He believed in the purifying the soul of all worldly desires and pleasures. In some ways, he was an extremist.

I think you are confusing Mahavira of "Jainism" and Buddha,

Mahavira preached extreme renunciation of all worldly pleasures, Buddha tried that but decided that its not the perfect path to enlightenment, and choose and preached the middle path.

You should read about it, I feel a knowledgeable guy would enjoy reading in detail about Buddha and even Mahavira.

 

[Mamoon]

I think you are confusing Mahavira of "Jainism" and Buddha,

Mahavira preached extreme renunciation of all worldly pleasures, Buddha tried that but decided that its not the perfect path to enlightenment, and choose and preached the middle path.

You should read about it, I feel a knowledgeable guy would enjoy reading in detail about Buddha and even Mahavira.

I haven't read much about Hindu/South Asian mythology and philosophy. It definitely is quite interesting and represents quite a contrast to Western philosophy which less mystical and more logic-driven. Will definitely read in depth about these figures in the future at some point.

 

[Nostalgic]

Similar thing happened in http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069906/?ref_=ttfc_fc_tt

View attachment 63886

I vaguely remember this episode. Didn't it also have a scene where Colombo is forced to eat escargot with a suspect?

 

[Nostalgic]

Maybe the king pieces, under soviet ideology, were the people who did the most for the motherland, be they peasants in Kalmykia or astronauts around the orbit. Kings in spirit. After all, if the christian right can make followers of ''camel through needle'' Jesus believe that being rich means that you have the favour of God for your hard work and being poor his wrath against your laziness, I think it would be easy enough for soviets to justify the use of a king in chess (they don't use a queen).

So Soviet chess sets didn't have a Queen?

I just thought of a game. On one side, the standard feudal chess pieces, arrayed in the usual fashion, with the class traitor foot soldiers in the frontline, and their spoilt overlords in the rear. Facing them, proletarian pieces, all identical, and in red. Sort of like chess vs checkers.

I could've marketed that in the Communist block and earned millions of rubles.

 

[endymion248]

So Soviet chess sets didn't have a Queen?

I just thought of a game. On one side, the standard feudal chess pieces, arrayed in the usual fashion, with the class traitor foot soldiers in the frontline, and their spoilt overlords in the rear. Facing them, proletarian pieces, all identical, and in red. Sort of like chess vs checkers.

I could've marketed that in the Communist block and earned millions of rubles.

They had a piece but they called it russianized Vizir.

Except the feudal side will always win with these rules.

 

[Nostalgic]

They had a piece but they called it russianized Vizir.

Except the feudal side will always win with these rules.

No, the peasants can run amok, unfettered by rules and regulations, and in the end they get to burn the Tsar and Tsarina in the corner square.

Chessmen of the world, unite!

 

[endymion248]

No, the peasants can run amok, unfettered by rules and regulations, and in the end they get to burn the Tsar and Tsarina in the corner square.

Chessmen of the world, unite!

Is it really what they want, though, to burn the Tsar and Tsarina in the corner square? Wouldn't they just be happier being overworked and sacrificed by the feudal chess pieces, never having the responsibility of thinking for themselves or even the idleness to realize the futility of their existence as simple pieces on a greater being's game board?

 

[PennOne]

The OP is an example of what is wrong with the thought process of a number of Pakistanis. They read something and assume it's factual without researching

 

[Black Zero]

I vaguely remember this episode. Didn't it also have a scene where Colombo is forced to eat escargot with a suspect?

I do not recall but googling revealed that he did eat escargot (not so sure about "forced" part though)

 

[Nostalgic]

I do not recall but googling revealed that he did eat escargot (not so sure about "forced" part though)

"Compelled" to eat escargot, then, because Colombo was more of a steak and potatoes kind of guy, not really into French cuisine.

 

[hibatahir]

this is the first time i hear about that the chess is haram

 

[Jadz]

I thought that one of the best things about Islam was that it did not have a priest class, no intermediary between man and god. How did the mullah class evolve to hold so much influence in Islam?

Because, over the course of the centuries, Muslims ceased studying the Arabic of the Qur'an. Which inevitably led to their reliance upon the scholarly class to translate, interpret and explain the Qur'an to them. Now, Muslims are fearful of thinking for themselves, or expressing independent views contrary to conventional opinion.

As for the subject of this thread: Allah SwT has only prohibited those things which harm and hurt individuals or societies. He has not banned anything beneficial, productive or which leads to inspired, creative thinking.

 

[Kroll]

I remember a Saudi cleric's fatwa on this a few years ago. Found it a bit a weird but that was the ruling. Aside from trying to gain some knowledge and answers about this issue, the thread itself is quite hilarious.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Chess is popular in many Muslim countries and societies, in Central Asia (USSR influence), Iran, Indonesia, Russia etc. Historically chess was popular during Islamic Golden Age especially in Abbasid Caliphate. A number of famous players from that period, foremost being Abu Bakr bin Yahya al-Suli who was regarded as the strongest player of shatranj in the Islamic world. Some of his chess problems remained unsolved for centuries.

Even in the last 100 years we can see so many top players with Islamic background, Azerbaijan is a chess powerhouse. It is even growing in popularity in Egypt and Turkey, Iran is set to be the next powerhouse provided the authorities can prevent talent drain to Europe. I have heard about fatwa against chess only from a couple of Saudi clerics, isolated instances, Riyadh has hosted rapid/blitz World Championship recently. Even in Qatar, UAE, Oman, Kuwait so many strong opens are held. But trust desis to be judgemental, instead of encouraging talent (or those taking up a new hobby/activity) our people drag others down citing some weird reasons.

There are a few good Muslim players from India and Bangladesh, people don't comment probably since they don't care but if some Muslim Bollywood celeb or cricketer poses with a chess set people start the sermons about haram, gambling etc and the discourse often gets hateful. All this without knowing the rules of the game. Chess is 100% based on skills, no luck, and what can I say about gambling? People can gamble even with weather forecast or in stock market, blame the people and not the discipline. Chess is like any sport and I haven't come across any notable incident of gambling till date.