Why the Dukes ball gives a very unfair advantage to England

[Ali Bohra]

England's recent rise up the cricket ladder has had one interesting facet to it: all of a sudden they were almost unbeatable at home.Previously, England was a team with no major home ground advantage,But now, suddenly, since 2007 or so, England's home ground advantage has been the biggest of any country.

WHY IS THAT?? SOME THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT NEW DUKE BALL THEY ARE USING..

I say “new Duke” so that I don’t have to deal with people who say that England have been using the Duke ball for decades – since the “original Duke” has virtually nothing in common with the ball that is currently used – other than the name). The “new Duke” is a lot heavier. It comes off the bat more quickly. Thus, even if the pitch isn’t bouncing very much, off the bat it will bounce a lot anyway. Edges fly higher and quicker.

Perhaps, fittingly, the only country which was able to challenge England in England was a country that is master of reverse swing - Pakistan. If Pakistani bowlers were able to have the Duke ball in their own country, they would not even come close to losing a match, ever. But for everyone else, even countries who have worked out reverse swing, they have found it very hard to adjust.

It is little wonder that since 2007 England have barely been threatened at home. Their only losses at home in Tests in that period have been to Pakistan, who, as previously stated, are themselves masters of reverse swing. Nobody else has come close.

So England, who have no natural home ground advantage, have manufactured one through having a very, very different ball.



But is it fair?

 

[Ali Bohra]

In comparison, all other countries get to use the Duke ball only when they tour England, only 10% of the time, or less, often years between using it. They have no time to get used to its intricacies.



So should all countries adopt the Duke ball?



If they did, then England’s home ground advantage would disappear quickly.

 

[Ali Bohra]

The Duke ball was approved about 30 years ago – back before it was modified to be made heavier, to reverse swing more quickly and so forth. The ICC‘s laws have a loophole, which says that they only need to approve the ball once – and if it is changed, then it doesn’t need to be approved again. Other countries have no say as to whether they object to it. And, at the time that the Duke ball was changed – 2007 – England were so hopeless that nobody much thought that it would matter. They just thought that it’d add some excitement.

 

[Robert]

In comparison, all other countries get to use the Duke ball only when they tour England, only 10% of the time, or less, often years between using it. They have no time to get used to its intricacies.

So should all countries adopt the Duke ball?

If they did, then England’s home ground advantage would disappear quickly.

West Indies also use the Duke. And Ireland.

And yes, because there would be more interesting matches if all countries adopt this superior ammunition.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan won 3 test matches in 3 years in same or worse conditions against better English teams. Stop with these embarrassing excuses.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

England's recent rise up the cricket ladder has had one interesting facet to it: all of a sudden they were almost unbeatable at home.Previously, England was a team with no major home ground advantage,But now, suddenly, since 2007 or so, England's home ground advantage has been the biggest of any country.

WHY IS THAT?? SOME THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT NEW DUKE BALL THEY ARE USING..

I say “new Duke” so that I don’t have to deal with people who say that England have been using the Duke ball for decades – since the “original Duke” has virtually nothing in common with the ball that is currently used – other than the name). The “new Duke” is a lot heavier. It comes off the bat more quickly. Thus, even if the pitch isn’t bouncing very much, off the bat it will bounce a lot anyway. Edges fly higher and quicker.

Perhaps, fittingly, the only country which was able to challenge England in England was a country that is master of reverse swing - Pakistan. If Pakistani bowlers were able to have the Duke ball in their own country, they would not even come close to losing a match, ever. But for everyone else, even countries who have worked out reverse swing, they have found it very hard to adjust.

It is little wonder that since 2007 England have barely been threatened at home. Their only losses at home in Tests in that period have been to Pakistan, who, as previously stated, are themselves masters of reverse swing. Nobody else has come close.

So England, who have no natural home ground advantage, have manufactured one through having a very, very different ball.



But is it fair?

You do realize that England have lost 2 Test series to South Africa and one to India as well since 2007 or you're just making stuff up for your argument

 

[jaf348]

You do realize that England have lost 2 Test series to South Africa and one to India as well since 2007 or you're just making stuff up for your argument

Lost to Sri Lanka and drew with NZ as well. Beat Australia 3-2 (got absolutely hammered in those 2 losses) and lost a test recently to a very inexperienced West Indies team. Hardly what you would call dominance.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

What? Unfair advantage?

Sad to see this situation. Test cricket is in coma, will die in few decades anyway, but atleast live it to be as it is till it lasts.

Now you people want that Kuckin Kookaburra in tests, wow.

Lets limit the no.of slips to 2, change the ball to Kookaburra and, ban bouncers. A good way to kill tests, before it dies.

 

[introvert]

Lol their home advantage is actually weakest compared to other teams home advantages. That's why they are at no.5.

Don't make silly excuses like this.more than reverse swing it's conventional swing which makes difference in test cricket played in England.

 

[pakistani pride]

Lol their home advantage is actually weakest compared to other teams home advantages. That's why they are at no.5.

Don't make silly excuses like this.more than reverse swing it's conventional swing which makes difference in test cricket played in England.

Uhmm they are good at home. Its away they are terrible.

 

[Nelson on]

Doctored pitches are absolutely fine no unfair advantage there is their?

 

[introvert]

Uhmm they are good at home. Its away they are terrible.

they are Terrible away but What I meant was that their home domination is not as strong as india's or Australia's home domination.

 

[Bewal Express]

The Duke ball and wickets with pace make test cricket interesting and could save test cricket.

 

[Junaids]

I wish we still had the Reader Ball in England: it swung for 70 overs!

 

[InziRules]

Pretty sure South Africa have beaten England in England

Pretty sure India won a test last tour

Pretty sure even Australia have won a test since 2007

In short, garbage thread

 

[MenInG]

Kookaburra balls to be used exclusively in 2020-21 Marsh Sheffield Shield

Cricket Australia has today announced that Kookaburra balls will be used exclusively for Marsh Sheffield Shield matches in the 2020-21 season.

CA has used both Kookaburra and Dukes balls in the Shield competition since the 2016-17 season.

Peter Roach, Cricket Australia’s Head of Cricket Operations, said reverting to the traditional Kookaburra ball was the right move for Australian cricket at this time.

“The introduction of the Dukes ball has been a worthwhile exercise, particularly in the lead up to overseas Ashes series where the Dukes is used so well by our English opponents,” Roach said. “We have been happy with how the ball has performed when used in Australian conditions over the past four seasons.

“We do, however, feel that reverting to one ball for 2020-21 will provide the consistent examination of our players over a full season that CA and the States are presently seeking. The Kookaburra is the ball used for international cricket in Australia and many parts of the world and we see benefits this season of maximising our use of it.

“We have noted that spin bowlers in the Marsh Sheffield Shield have been playing less of a role in recent seasons, most notably in games when the Dukes ball is in use. We need spinners bowling in first-class cricket and we need our batters facing spin. We hope that the change to one ball with have a positive benefit here.

“We see a definite opportunity to reintroduce the Dukes ball at some stage in the future.”

Brett Elliott, Group Managing Director at Kookaburra Sport, said his company was delighted to continue their association with the Marsh Sheffield Shield.

“We have worked very hard over many years in conjunction with boards around the world to develop a cricket ball that brings out all the skills of players,” Elliott said. “We will continue to work with the sport to finetune our processes to produce the best possible cricket ball for the different formats.”

Dilip Jajodia, the owner of Dukes ball manufacturer British Cricket Balls, thanked Cricket Australia for its partnership over the past four seasons.

“Having the opportunity to show the quality of our ball in Australia’s premier domestic cricket competition has been a privilege,” Jajodia said. “We understand CA’s decision and are buoyed by the potential for the Dukes to return in future seasons.”

 

[Slog]

lol pakistan are no good at reverse swing for a good few years now

our 2018 draw had nothing to do with reverse and neither did 2016 even though the team would let the ball get old asap for Wahab to reverse which he failed spectacularly at

 

[Kingpin786]

lol pakistan are no good at reverse swing for a good few years now

our 2018 draw had nothing to do with reverse and neither did 2016 even though the team would let the ball get old asap for Wahab to reverse which he failed spectacularly at

Dont tell me reverse swing was crucial for our victory in CT2017 most of the good spells from our bowlers are result of reverse swing

 

[Kingpin786]

England's recent rise up the cricket ladder has had one interesting facet to it: all of a sudden they were almost unbeatable at home.Previously, England was a team with no major home ground advantage,But now, suddenly, since 2007 or so, England's home ground advantage has been the biggest of any country.

WHY IS THAT?? SOME THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT NEW DUKE BALL THEY ARE USING..

I say “new Duke” so that I don’t have to deal with people who say that England have been using the Duke ball for decades – since the “original Duke” has virtually nothing in common with the ball that is currently used – other than the name). The “new Duke” is a lot heavier. It comes off the bat more quickly. Thus, even if the pitch isn’t bouncing very much, off the bat it will bounce a lot anyway. Edges fly higher and quicker.

Perhaps, fittingly, the only country which was able to challenge England in England was a country that is master of reverse swing - Pakistan. If Pakistani bowlers were able to have the Duke ball in their own country, they would not even come close to losing a match, ever. But for everyone else, even countries who have worked out reverse swing, they have found it very hard to adjust.

It is little wonder that since 2007 England have barely been threatened at home. Their only losses at home in Tests in that period have been to Pakistan, who, as previously stated, are themselves masters of reverse swing. Nobody else has come close.

So England, who have no natural home ground advantage, have manufactured one through having a very, very different ball.



But is it fair?

Is it england or india where through sg balls yadav looks better than rabada

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It's the combination of the Dukes and their seaming pitches( more seam movement on average than any other country) that makes it so hard to bat in England and this has especially been true in the last 3 seasons. The Dukes ball used in the 2007 season swung massively - was hooping around corners and we still had high scores and India won on that tour. In fact, no season in England has seen more swing since 2007.

 

[Slog]

Dont tell me reverse swing was crucial for our victory in CT2017 most of the good spells from our bowlers are result of reverse swing

that was kookaburra ball and was primarily Hasan Ali who took them. He only played in one of those series and had ONE good innings where 2 of his 4 wickets were top orders and then tailenders.

Reverse swing did not play a role in 2018 draw. Conventional swing and seam of Abbas was the reason why we won first test.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Preferably i was hoping the kookaburra be used, but it would be hard to bowl with the added no spit rule.

Patience will be a key but i wouldn't blame the batsman for high 40s and 50 scores.

 

[Titan24]

I personally like watching cricket played with Dukes ball. If supported by decent wicket it keeps both batsmen and bowlers in the game through out the 5 days of Test cricket.

 

[Robert]

It's the combination of the Dukes and their seaming pitches( more seam movement on average than any other country) that makes it so hard to bat in England and this has especially been true in the last 3 seasons. The Dukes ball used in the 2007 season swung massively - was hooping around corners and we still had high scores and India won on that tour. In fact, no season in England has seen more swing since 2007.

It’s because players except Kiwis and Saffers aren’t used to orthodox swing and seam bowling.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It’s because players except Kiwis and Saffers aren’t used to orthodox swing and seam bowling.

Doesn't negate the point I made. England still has the highest seam and swing movement according to ball tracking from 2006.

 

[therealAB]

England have an advantage at hone that is true. However, many countries have significantly larger advantages so not sure what the point is

 

[Kingpin786]

that was kookaburra ball and was primarily Hasan Ali who took them. He only played in one of those series and had ONE good innings where 2 of his 4 wickets were top orders and then tailenders.

Reverse swing did not play a role in 2018 draw. Conventional swing and seam of Abbas was the reason why we won first test.

even with duke you can check the pak tour of WI in which hasan ali had a spell where he was getting massive reverse swing on his debut test

 

[sweep_shot]

I think there should be one type of ball for cricket everywhere. Whether it is Duke or Kookaburra.

 

[Robert]

Doesn't negate the point I made. England still has the highest seam and swing movement according to ball tracking from 2006.

And Australia has the most bounce and the Subcontinent the most spin. Time was when international batters had all the skills, but now most do not.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

And Australia has the most bounce and the Subcontinent the most spin. Time was when international batters had all the skills, but now most do not.

Right, we're back to this again

 

[topspin]

It's the combination of the Dukes and their seaming pitches( more seam movement on average than any other country) that makes it so hard to bat in England and this has especially been true in the last 3 seasons. The Dukes ball used in the 2007 season swung massively - was hooping around corners and we still had high scores and India won on that tour. In fact, no season in England has seen more swing since 2007.

+ overcast conditions - which you could argue is the biggest factor when it comes to batting against England pacers.

 

[Robert]

Right, we're back to this again

If Subcon players want to get better at playing seam and swing, they can apply for jobs in the CCC like Gavaskar, Imran, Zaheer, Miandad, Tendulkar, Azhar, Kapil. If not, they can expect to carry on getting skittled in England.

 

[Robert]

+ overcast conditions - which you could argue is the biggest factor when it comes to batting against England pacers.

Well doesn’t that work for Asian bowlers too?

 

[TamiL_GarvaM!]

I dont think the change of ball is that massive a change or reverse is the way to go. The reason Eng are so good at home since 2007(if that is the threshold year) is their bowlers are terrific with conventional swing as well, their skills are what gets the wickets more than the ball + combined with the effect 20/20 is having on test match batting everywhere. For me as an indian fan, i hope we use dukes in india as well, i am all fo swing seam and bounce, makes tests interesting. Regarinding reverse, my take is most matches eng have won ,most wickets were taken before prodigious reverse, i could be wrong, but most times eng have limited opposition below 200. However, this series pak vs eng could be all about reverse....should be exciting viewing

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I find cricket in English conditions extremely interesting. Part of this is because of the ball conditions.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If Subcon players want to get better at playing seam and swing, they can apply for jobs in the CCC like Gavaskar, Imran, Zaheer, Miandad, Tendulkar, Azhar, Kapil. If not, they can expect to carry on getting skittled in England.

They faced much inferior bowling attacks in terms of pace and sustained pressure. But let us not ruin the narrative of how modern batters are inferior....

 

[Robert]

They faced much inferior bowling attacks in terms of pace and sustained pressure. But let us not ruin the narrative of how modern batters are inferior....

Attacks featuring Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh, Wasim, Waqar, Caddick, Fraser, Gough... That’s why Asians used to have the skills to bat in England. They faced the best in the world in swing and seam conditions.

Whereas ECB is to blame for the decline in English batting. The Three Gs grew up on fliers, bunsens, green mambas and roads. Now English wickets are homogenous slow seamers so most England players are exposed Overseas.

 

[topspin]

Well doesn’t that work for Asian bowlers too?

Ofc, mind you this wasn't a response to the thread. I disagree that the Dukes has given England an unfair advantage, if anything it has been reduced going by their home performances in recent years.

What I'm saying is that the toughest conditions for batting are in England for 3 reasons:

1. Use of the Dukes
2. Seaming wickets
3. Overcast conditions

 

[Robert]

Ofc, mind you this wasn't a response to the thread. I disagree that the Dukes has given England an unfair advantage, if anything it has been reduced going by their home performances in recent years.

What I'm saying is that the toughest conditions for batting are in England for 3 reasons:

1. Use of the Dukes
2. Seaming wickets
3. Overcast conditions

Sometime. Only TB is a real seamer, and the clouds don’t always come over. I’ve seen it not swing an inch under thick overcast when it is cold. And by August and September the wickets are dry and the sky blue, and the track can break up to help spinners.

 

[shaz619]

England should surrender their first 5 wickets for each innings, I think that would make things fair for everyone else

 

[Robert]

England should surrender their first 5 wickets for each innings, I think that would make things fair for everyone else

Errr... they already do )

 

[shaz619]

Errr... they already do )

) true , especially when you have Denly in the line up let alone that pile of dung batting at no.3

 

[Robert]

) true , especially when you have Denly in the line up let alone that pile of dung batting at no.3

Eh? Denly is at #3.

I think he’s half a class below test level but at least he has ticker.

 

[shaz619]

Eh? Denly is at #3.

I think he’s half a class below test level but at least he has ticker.

Exactly,

You were saying ?