Why was Younis Khan poor outside Asia in Tests?

[Hitman]

Tests- 38; Innings - 71; Runs - 2662; Ave - 39.14; 100's - 6; 50's - 11


He played a grand total of 213 innings in his career. Out of them, he played 71 innings outside of Asia (Minus Zimbabwe). His century per innings ratio comes down to 11.83


Let's look at the number of innings he has played in each country outside Asia -

in Aus - 12

in SA - 16

in Eng - 16

in NZ - 12

in WI - 15


That comes down to a grand total of 71 innings outside Asia, bar Zimbabwe. Certainly not a small sample size by any means.

Even if you include matches played in Zimbabwe, his average remains 42.30

Certainly poor returns by a player who is hailed by his fans as an ATG.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

 

[Mamoon]

A very average player of lateral movement. He has been able to handle bounce on various occasions, but 9/10 times he was toast against swing and seam. You don't need to look at his record to realise this - anyone who watched him play could tell that he never knew where his off-stump was, with the way he fished outside the off-stump playing away from his body.

 

[jnaveen1980]

He is a determined player. Not a technical wizard. There are lot of holes in his technique. But i have to say very gutsy player. THere is only so much gut and gumption can do. He had his share of moments. Bit like how Mahela was. He was an artist on certain grounds. In other places "edgewardane"

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not a good player of fast bowling.

 

[angrypathan]

An average of almost 40 overseas is hardly poor. Not mind-blowing or exceptional by any means, but combined with his prolific output in Asia certainly allows him to make a case to be counted as an ATG.

 

[Bubby]

And yet someone like a barah dude has the audacity to call him the best no 3 in Asia, I mean seriously. Yes he was good but to say he was no 1,well that's way over the top.

 

[as-95]

Undoubtedly an ATG. Was not as good against fast bowling in difficult conditions as he was against spin, but he was a great run scorer with a knack for scoring big in the fourth innings.

 

[cr7great]

he was average player.

 

[Hitman]

Looking at his numbers outside Asia, it's tough to call him a great of the subcontinent, let alone an ATG. It's a joke to suggest so.

Dravid, Sunny, Sachin, Amarnath, Kohli, Miandad, Saleem Malik, Sangakkara, Inzamam, Yousuf, Gurusinha, Anwar, Rahane, Laxman, Hanif, Ganguly, Majid Khan, Sakhib, Asif Iqbal, De Silva, Dilip Sardesai (in order)


So there are 13 players from Asia who averages better than Younis Khan outside Asia in Tests (bar Zimbabwe). That's right, 13 players.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=batting

 

[Hitman]

Looking at his numbers outside Asia, it's tough to call him a great of the subcontinent, let alone an ATG. It's a joke to suggest so.

Dravid, Sunny, Sachin, Amarnath, Kohli, Miandad, Saleem Malik, Sangakkara, Inzamam, Yousuf, Gurusinha, Anwar, Rahane, Laxman, Hanif, Ganguly, Majid Khan, Sakhib, Asif Iqbal, De Silva, Dilip Sardesai (in order)


So there are 13 players from Asia who averages better than Younis Khan outside Asia in Tests (bar Zimbabwe). That's right, 13 players.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=batting

Sorry for the typo, there are 21 players ahead of him. That's right, 21 players from Asia.

 

[dravidthewall]

He is average player..swinging condition he is easy wicket..but goat in asian condition.

 

[Buffet]

Looking at his numbers outside Asia, it's tough to call him a great of the subcontinent, let alone an ATG. It's a joke to suggest so.

Dravid, Sunny, Sachin, Amarnath, Kohli, Miandad, Saleem Malik, Sangakkara, Inzamam, Yousuf, Gurusinha, Anwar, Rahane, Laxman, Hanif, Ganguly, Majid Khan, Sakhib, Asif Iqbal, De Silva, Dilip Sardesai (in order)


So there are 13 players from Asia who averages better than Younis Khan outside Asia in Tests (bar Zimbabwe). That's right, 13 players.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=batting

13 players being better doesn't make a batsman poor in certain conditions. It just means that he was not among the top tier batsmen in those conditions.

 

[Hitman]

13 players being better doesn't make a batsman poor in certain conditions. It just means that he was not among the top tier batsmen in those conditions.

Not 13, but 21 players ahead of him. I corrected my typo in my next post.

 

[Buffet]

Sorry for the typo, there are 21 players ahead of him. That's right, 21 players from Asia.

That means he was just average outside Asia. He was very good in Asia. Everyone knows that without looking at stats.

 

[Hitman]

That means he was just average outside Asia. He was very good in Asia. Everyone knows that without looking at stats.

Of course he was brilliant in Asia. The thread is about his performance outside Asia, so why would we talk about his performance in Asia in this thread?

 

[QuickCrick]

Looking at his numbers outside Asia, it's tough to call him a great of the subcontinent, let alone an ATG. It's a joke to suggest so.

Dravid, Sunny, Sachin, Amarnath, Kohli, Miandad, Saleem Malik, Sangakkara, Inzamam, Yousuf, Gurusinha, Anwar, Rahane, Laxman, Hanif, Ganguly, Majid Khan, Sakhib, Asif Iqbal, De Silva, Dilip Sardesai (in order)


So there are 13 players from Asia who averages better than Younis Khan outside Asia in Tests (bar Zimbabwe). That's right, 13 players.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=batting

This is some stupid thought process... Im going to make a ridiculous statement and then throw a caveat in the equation to justify it. Complete Nonsense!

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

He is on the same level as laxman. Nothing more.
Not an atg.
Inferior to shiv Chanderpaul, kevin pietersen, on same level as mike hussey, michael clarke.

 

[Hitman]

This is some stupid thought process... Im going to make a ridiculous statement and then throw a caveat in the equation to justify it. Complete Nonsense!

So you mean that there aren't 21 players from Asia who have averaged better than him outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe)? Or is there criteria I have spoken of has been unheard of?

Fans from the subcontinent have often spoken about the performance of Asian batsman outside of Asia. Anything new?

 

[QuickCrick]

So you mean that there aren't 21 players from Asia who have averaged better than him outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe)? Or is there criteria I have spoken of has been unheard of?

Fans from the subcontinent have often spoken about the performance of Asian batsman outside of Asia. Anything new?

Adding the Zimbabwe Caveat - we can all do look for something similar with any player/team to manipulate stats in our favour. Like I said it’s nonsense..

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Just see how pakistani fans are getting annoyed when a simple filter is applied to younis khans stats.
Now think of the wide varieties of filters they have applied on sachin, kohli, gavskar. From avg against top bowlers to avg against pak until 1999, avg against west indies in 1979 tour, avg when series was alive etc etc.

And this is the most basic filter.

 

[Hitman]

Adding the Zimbabwe Caveat - we can all do look for something similar with any player/team to manipulate stats in our favour. Like I said it’s nonsense..

Ouch, looks like it hurt you. I didn't introduce any particular criteria by myself to favor anyone.

I used a criteria that has been used by fans from the subcontinent since years. And that is performance of Asian players away from Asia. Remember the debate between Ashiwn and Yasie since the lasdt year based solely on their performance away from Asia? It has been used time and time again. Not my fault that Younis comes out a cropper.

 

[Hitman]

Just see how pakistani fans are getting annoyed when a simple filter is applied to younis khans stats.
Now think of the wide varieties of filters they have applied on sachin, kohli, gavskar. From avg against top bowlers to avg against pak until 1999, avg against west indies in 1979 tour, avg when series was alive etc etc.

And this is the most basic filter.

The most basic filter used by Asian fans time and time again. Just look at the number of threads and posts comparing Ashwin and Yasir since such a long time based solely on their performances outside Asia.

 

[ManFan]

Don't know OP's purpose for this thread.

Any serious cricketing fan understands Younis Khan's lack of ability to play anything that moves slightly from the hands of a bowler operating above 120 kph.

His flamingo exhibit and recovery process through a telephone conversation with Muhammad Azharuddin was perhaps the most embarrassing point in his laundry list of dramatic public showcases where he is always the victim.

This is a man who through pure ambition and hustle was able to sustain a career averaging 50 for a team in freefall; in fact, the arrival of YK has really been the tipping point for the downfall of Pakistan cricket.

 

[RickyG]

These numbers are taken out of context. He struggled in the West Indies that brings down his average considerably. He was sub par in South Africa but still managed a 100 there. In the other three countries, he was actually quite decent.

But essentially by claiming that Younis was poor outside Asia you are blatantly ignoring his 50+ averages in Australia/England and his average of 43 (took a massive hit after his last tour there) in New Zealand.

The question should've been why was Younis so poor in West Indies? Or did Younis underachieve in South Africa?

This post is a bunch of numbers thrown together to garner a reaction. That being said, Hitman is a known troll so not too surprised either.

 

[ShahidDar08]

Tests- 38; Innings - 71; Runs - 2662; Ave - 39.14; 100's - 6; 50's - 11


He played a grand total of 213 innings in his career. Out of them, he played 71 innings outside of Asia (Minus Zimbabwe). His century per innings ratio comes down to 11.83


Let's look at the number of innings he has played in each country outside Asia -

in Aus - 12

in SA - 16

in Eng - 16

in NZ - 12

in WI - 15


That comes down to a grand total of 71 innings outside Asia, bar Zimbabwe. Certainly not a small sample size by any means.

Even if you include matches played in Zimbabwe, his average remains 42.30

Certainly poor returns by a player who is hailed by his fans as an ATG.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

40 average is not a cup of coffee in overseas conditions where most of the batsman end up with less than 20 average.

He's the best test batsman Pakistan has ever produced and has century against all test nations in their home grounds.

 

[JibranAnsari]

He was only poor in south africa and west indies. Was fine everywhere else.

 

[big_gamer007]

Just see how pakistani fans are getting annoyed when a simple filter is applied to younis khans stats.
Now think of the wide varieties of filters they have applied on sachin, kohli, gavskar. From avg against top bowlers to avg against pak until 1999, avg against west indies in 1979 tour, avg when series was alive etc etc.

And this is the most basic filter.

The best filter ever is performance against Sri Lanka in a three team tournament or something which brings Kohlis average to 17 in 5 matches and proves he is a poor batsman as those are the biggest matches for any player.
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] will vouch for this.

 

[Hitman]

These numbers are taken out of context. He struggled in the West Indies that brings down his average considerably. He was sub par in South Africa but still managed a 100 there. In the other three countries, he was actually quite decent.

But essentially by claiming that Younis was poor outside Asia you are blatantly ignoring his 50+ averages in Australia/England and his average of 43 (took a massive hit after his last tour there) in New Zealand.

The question should've been why was Younis so poor in West Indies? Or did Younis underachieve in South Africa?

This post is a bunch of numbers thrown together to garner a reaction. That being said, Hitman is a known troll so not too surprised either.

LOL, can't challenge the number hence trying to get personal? I can understand that. No issues, we all have the right to apply balm to our wounds.

Coming back to the point, when we speak about the performance of Asian players outside Asia, we don't specifically speak about the countries outside Asia where a player has failed. We speak about their performance as whole outside Asia. That has always been the norm. Now if you want to change that and speak about individual countries because your Younis Khan comes out a cropper, go ahead.

Just like posters were busy for the last year looking at Ashwin and Yasir's averages outside Asia. Why? Because that has been the norm. It's understandable you dislike this thread because those facts and numbers don't please you.

 

[Hitman]

U need to consult a psychiatrist, 40 average is not a cup of coffee in overseas conditions where most of the batsman end up with less than 20 average.

He's the best test batsman Pakistan has ever produced and has century against all test nations in their home grounds.

And yet 21 batsman batsmen from Asia have better averages than him outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe)? And that average is not 40, it's less than 40.

 

[big_gamer007]

He had his struggles in pace friendly conditions everyone who has seen him play knows that..

However his strengths are also well documented he is a top quality player against spin.
When conditions eased out he had ability to score big double tons.. The double century in England he scored is a prime example before that he was hopping like a bunny and it was embarrassing however as soon as he found the right condition he capitalised on it and scored big.. Everyone forgot what he did in previous innings due to that one innings

That's how big a player YK was, he had his problems but his strengths outweigh his problems.

Quality batsman not the best outside Asia but one of the best in Asia.

 

[as-95]

These numbers are taken out of context. He struggled in the West Indies that brings down his average considerably. He was sub par in South Africa but still managed a 100 there. In the other three countries, he was actually quite decent.

But essentially by claiming that Younis was poor outside Asia you are blatantly ignoring his 50+ averages in Australia/England and his average of 43 (took a massive hit after his last tour there) in New Zealand.

The question should've been why was Younis so poor in West Indies? Or did Younis underachieve in South Africa?

This post is a bunch of numbers thrown together to garner a reaction. That being said, Hitman is a known troll so not too surprised either.

Great post. The OP is being deceitful and failing to include Younus' outstanding numbers in Australia and England(arguable the most bowling friendly conditions in the world. Sure, he underachieved in South Africa, but his figures in Australia and England show that he was able to dominate away from home despite his known weakness against lateral movement from fast bowlers...

 

[Hitman]

Great post. The OP is being deceitful and failing to include Younus' outstanding numbers in Australia and England(arguable the most bowling friendly conditions in the world. Sure, he underachieved in South Africa, but his figures in Australia and England show that he was able to dominate away from home despite his known weakness against lateral movement from fast bowlers...

Goodness! When did I exclude his performances in Australia and England? His performance in those 2 countries are included.

And what's deceitful about those numbers I posted? I posted his numbers outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe). That's exactly what posters from the subcontinent are so fond of. Can you let me know where exactly I was deceptive?

 

[Rahul1]

Undoubtedly an ATG. Was not as good against fast bowling in difficult conditions as he was against spin, but he was a great run scorer with a knack for scoring big in the fourth innings.

You have some really low standards for labelling someone an 'atg', that too undoubtedly.

 

[Rahul1]

Great post. The OP is being deceitful and failing to include Younus' outstanding numbers in Australia and England(arguable the most bowling friendly conditions in the world. Sure, he underachieved in South Africa, but his figures in Australia and England show that he was able to dominate away from home despite his known weakness against lateral movement from fast bowlers...

His average in Australia is boosted by that 175, that too not out in a dead rubber.

 

[Hitman]

You have some really low standards for labelling someone an 'atg', that too undoubtedly.

What differentiates him from those 21 men who have better averages than him outside Asia is that he really made in count in Asia. Something that a lot of Pak posters accuse Sehwag of. Nothing bad about that, it's admirable.

 

[Hasan123]

If you watched him you know he had issues against pace and the moving ball. But he was a brilliant player of spin and also very strong mentally.

Not an ATG but he still had a very good career. I don't get why posters get so upset that he isn't rated as an ATG..He is still well respected around the world.

 

[Haroon786]

Tests- 38; Innings - 71; Runs - 2662; Ave - 39.14; 100's - 6; 50's - 11


He played a grand total of 213 innings in his career. Out of them, he played 71 innings outside of Asia (Minus Zimbabwe). His century per innings ratio comes down to 11.83


Let's look at the number of innings he has played in each country outside Asia -

in Aus - 12

in SA - 16

in Eng - 16

in NZ - 12

in WI - 15


That comes down to a grand total of 71 innings outside Asia, bar Zimbabwe. Certainly not a small sample size by any means.

Even if you include matches played in Zimbabwe, his average remains 42.30

Certainly poor returns by a player who is hailed by his fans as an ATG.


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

That's not poor and I'm not even a staunch supporter of YK. Not even sure the likes of Ponting or Lara average more than mid 40s outside their home countries tbh.

An average of 42 whilst not GOAT level, it's definitely ATG level outside Asia.

 

[Hawkeye]

He was not in the Ponting, Inzi, SRT, Miandad, Dravid league.

Simply a level below. And average player of pace, swing.

What's wrong in that, I think everyone knows it.

Of course you have his defenders and staunch fans too who won't accept it.

 

[Pete Rose]

And yet 21 batsman batsmen from Asia have better averages than him outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe)? And that average is not 40, it's less than 40.

I think yk is solid but his numbers against pace are so so. as for the other 21 players, some are atg's and some just played a lit more cricket abroad. I have actually go a thread on his comparison on spin vs pace home and away by country
I look at yk's 176 in a dead rubber in 2016 and it reminds me of tendulak's equally useless 242 in a dead series where mcgrath had his number. A fantastic innings of self denial, and individual achievement.

 

[WengerOut]

I think yk is solid but his numbers against pace are so so. as for the other 21 players, some are atg's and some just played a lit more cricket abroad. I have actually go a thread on his comparison on spin vs pace home and away by country
I look at yk's 176 in a dead rubber in 2016 and it reminds me of tendulak's equally useless 242 in a dead series where mcgrath had his number. A fantastic innings of self denial, and individual achievement.

Nice narrative, but not true. Mcgrath did not play that series.

Coming back to the original point, it is not about stats or anything. Younis was pretty ordinary for a supposedly great batsman against quality pace. Always seen him struggle against it. But he would cash on the benign pitches on offer which helps the stats. Some things are to be seen and to be believed.

 

[Pete Rose]

Nice narrative, but not true. Mcgrath did not play that series.

Coming back to the original point, it is not about stats or anything. Younis was pretty ordinary for a supposedly great batsman against quality pace. Always seen him struggle against it. But he would cash on the benign pitches on offer which helps the stats. Some things are to be seen and to be believed.

This is opinion and you are welcome to it

 

[Monsee]

Another way of looking at this poor argument would be to see who is below him to:

- To analyze what is the true worth of his 39.14 average outside Asia

- What other ATG (in people's opinion) have averaged in the same countries?

- Also, some of these 21 he mentioned, how many matches have they actually played to have a better average than YK? I ask, because in his silly argument he failed to include the fact that e.g. Shakib has only played 12 matches outside Asia minus Zimbabwe, Grusinha: 11, Anwar: 15, and Desai: 14. Playing only a handful of matches can skew the average quite a bit in some cases. Some others have also played far less tests than YK.

So, below YK are these supposedly really good (some greats as well) players:
Mendis, Matthews, Zaheer Abbas (a shock for most), Ranatunga, Vishwanath, Patudi, Gambhir, Majid, Mushtaq, Pujara, Azharuddin, Sehwag, and Dilshan.

Looking at the above (and a few I didn't even include), YK's average barely looks as bad! Maybe the OP should stay within the realm of posting useless lists

 

[Hitman]

I think yk is solid but his numbers against pace are so so. as for the other 21 players, some are atg's and some just played a lit more cricket abroad. I have actually go a thread on his comparison on spin vs pace home and away by country
I look at yk's 176 in a dead rubber in 2016 and it reminds me of tendulak's equally useless 242 in a dead series where mcgrath had his number. A fantastic innings of self denial, and individual achievement.

Liar, liar
Pants on fire!

It was the deciding Test of the series. As for McGrath, he didn't even play that series

 

[Pete Rose]

Liar, liar
Pants on fire!

It was the deciding Test of the series. As for McGrath, he didn't even play that series

Yes you are right tendulkar managed to score 242 against a mcrathless attack after struggling the whole
Series

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Sorry for the typo, there are 21 players ahead of him. That's right, 21 players from Asia.

He was very average when he started, but improved towards the end (late bloomer) in early part of his career he was wasted at #3. while shielding more experienced Inzamam and M. Yousuf. He could have improved that Average had he continued (instead of retiring) as age was not affecting him (yet). But he wanted Captaincy, which PCB did not wanted to give to him.

Plus I would not compare him with Indian Batsmen because India always had great batsmen. it helps when your team's batting is strong and pressure is not on you. YK had to shoulder all the pressure, all the time because his team was always full of substandard stuff.

 

[WengerOut]

Yes you are right tendulkar managed to score 242 against a mcrathless attack after struggling the whole
Series

Nobody should score runs when he has struggled in the series, even if the series is on line.

 

[Hitman]

Another way of looking at this poor argument would be to see who is below him to:

- To analyze what is the true worth of his 39.14 average outside Asia

- What other ATG (in people's opinion) have averaged in the same countries?

- Also, some of these 21 he mentioned, how many matches have they actually played to have a better average than YK? I ask, because in his silly argument he failed to include the fact that e.g. Shakib has only played 12 matches outside Asia minus Zimbabwe, Grusinha: 11, Anwar: 15, and Desai: 14. Playing only a handful of matches can skew the average quite a bit in some cases. Some others have also played far less tests than YK.

So, below YK are these supposedly really good (some greats as well) players:
Mendis, Matthews, Zaheer Abbas (a shock for most), Ranatunga, Vishwanath, Patudi, Gambhir, Majid, Mushtaq, Pujara, Azharuddin, Sehwag, and Dilshan.

Looking at the above (and a few I didn't even include), YK's average barely looks as bad! Maybe the OP should stay within the realm of posting useless lists

Naah, those 21 players I listed are above Younis Khan in that list because they were better than Younis outside Asia overall.

And now suddenly, performance of Asian players outside Asia becomes useless in a second ) ..... the same criteria that has been used countless times by posters previously on PP.

 

[Pete Rose]

Nobody should score runs when he has struggled in the series, even if the series is on line.

of course they should.

 

[Monsee]

^^^At Hitman: Didn't expect a sensible reply anyway since this is your 'that' time of the day...as if you do better rest of the time either lol!

 

[Bubby]

Yes you are right tendulkar managed to score 242 against a mcrathless attack after struggling the whole
Series

But the point is here we are discussing about younis khan not Tendulkar

 

[Pete Rose]

He was very average when he started, but improved towards the end (late bloomer) in early part of his career he was wasted at #3. while shielding more experienced Inzamam and M. Yousuf. He could have improved that Average had he continued (instead of retiring) as age was not affecting him (yet). But he wanted Captaincy, which PCB did not wanted to give to him.

Plus I would not compare him with Indian Batsmen because India always had great batsmen. it helps when your team's batting is strong and pressure is not on you. YK had to shoulder all the pressure, all the time because his team was always full of substandard stuff.

tbh, pakistan's batting and bowling have struggled in australia. compare their figures to indian bowlers and batsmen you will see the same.

 

[Hitman]

Yes you are right tendulkar managed to score 242 against a mcrathless attack after struggling the whole
Series

No, you outright lied when you said that match was a dead one and McGrath had Sachin's number in the entire series.

I never claimed anything, you did. And you outright lied.

 

[Pete Rose]

No, you outright lied when you said that match was a dead one and McGrath had Sachin's number in the entire series.

I never claimed anything, you did. And you outright lied.

dont be a baby. my opinion on tendulkar as softy against Pakistan tends to bias my opinion of him. his numbers are great, just never thought he would do much to win against us. lets not derail your weekly troll thread. that was a pretty useless 241 though.

 

[cr7great]

he is atg for Pakistan
for world he is average player

 

[Hitman]

^^^At Hitman: Didn't expect a sensible reply anyway since this is your 'that' time of the day...as if you do better rest of the time either lol!

Yea, yours is an extremely sensible reply where you made all of your points clear.

Suddenly the performance of Asian players outside Asia becomes a 'useless' stat, when that same criteria has been used for years by posters on PP.

Nothing to worry though, long time posters know you and your pattern of posts.

 

[Pete Rose]

But the point is here we are discussing about younis khan not Tendulkar

true. i was talking about that 176 and how it reminded me of other useless innings. objectively there is no comparison between yk and tendulkar. you will struggle to find a weakness in tendulkar's aggregates on pace vs. spin home or away. having said, players go through phases of good and bad.

 

[Hitman]

dont be a baby. my opinion on tendulkar as softy against Pakistan tends to bias my opinion of him. his numbers are great, just never thought he would do much to win against us. lets not derail your weekly troll thread. that was a pretty useless 241 though.

Awww, trying to divert the point here, right?

Once again, at no point I claimed anything. You outright lied about about him failing that entire series against McGrath and that being a dead Test. Who was the liar there? You or me?

The evidence is there for everyone to see in this thread

 

[Pete Rose]

Awww, trying to divert the point here, right?

Once again, at no point I claimed anything. You outright lied about about him failing that entire series against McGrath and that being a dead Test. Who was the liar there? You or me?

The evidence is there for everyone to see in this thread

i am sorry say it again, i dont get it.

 

[Hitman]

i am sorry say it again, i dont get it.

Is that your best cop out after being caught lying?


I think yk is solid but his numbers against pace are so so. as for the other 21 players, some are atg's and some just played a lit more cricket abroad. I have actually go a thread on his comparison on spin vs pace home and away by country
I look at yk's 176 in a dead rubber in 2016 and it reminds me of tendulak's equally useless 242 in a dead series where mcgrath had his number. A fantastic innings of self denial, and individual achievement.

What was the above?

 

[Pete Rose]

Is that your best cop out after being caught lying?

once more again?

 

[Hitman]

once more again?

Read the edited post. Who posted this -

I look at yk's 176 in a dead rubber in 2016 and it reminds me of tendulak's equally useless 242 in a dead series where mcgrath had his number.

Liar, liar
Pants on fire!

 

[Khan12]

Don't worry he hasn't made any atg 11. Tendulkar has he will be included in dickie bird's one's soon too. oh yes he's got the most centuries in a lost cause I believe.

 

[Pete Rose]

Read the edited post. Who posted this -


Liar, liar
Pants on fire!

pardon?

 

[Khan12]

pardon?

He's looking for another team which has included Tendulkar and not Imran. Hence not concentrating.

 

[Pete Rose]

He's looking for another team which has included Tendulkar and not Imran. Hence not concentrating.

I mean, its kind of sad, that one random stat sort of derails his thread or world view.

 

[WengerOut]

I mean, its kind of sad, that one random stat sort of derails his thread or world view.

If you want to argue objectively, then i can tell you

You said Mcgrath had his number when Mcgrath did not even play that series.

Then you said he scored a useless hundred in a dead rubber like Younis in Sydney. Actual scenario was, the series was 1-1 coming to the last match. How could that be a dead match?

 

[Khan12]

I mean, its kind of sad, that one random stat sort of derails his thread or world view.

He will do anything to prove Tendulkar is the best or how even his ducks are better then centuries scored by other players.

 

[Pete Rose]

If you want to argue objectively, then i can tell you

You said Mcgrath had his number when Mcgrath did not even play that series.

Then you said he scored a useless hundred in a dead rubber like Younis in Sydney. Actual scenario was, the series was 1-1 coming to the last match. How could that be a dead match?

yes lets argue. he got a 241 in a game which at the time cemented his reputation as a dude who couldnt see india to big wins abroad given his reputation. if you wanna wear the crown you better take the hits.

that was pretty much the narrative going around. big player, lots of runs, but not clutch ones. you play long enough that starts to change as better players retire, you get to tour more often, your team becomes better etc etc

 

[WengerOut]

yes lets argue. he got a 241 in a game which at the time cemented his reputation as a dude who couldnt see india to big wins abroad given his reputation. if you wanna wear the crown you better take the hits.

that was pretty much the narrative going around. big player, lots of runs, but not clutch ones. you play long enough that starts to change as better players retire, you get to tour more often, your team becomes better etc etc

What would a guy do other than score runs? It is a team game ultimately.

You are calling that innings useless on hindsight. At the time it was a deciding match.

 

[Pete Rose]

What would a guy do other than score runs? It is a team game ultimately.

I absolutely agree with this. but remember you brought in narrative to all this a few posts earlier.
back on point, yk's numbers against pace are low, but better Pietersen, Clarke, and Chanderpaul when touring. I dont reflexively defend him, because I saw his joke of a batting stance in engand in 2016 before he truned it around in the final test and lead them to a win to draw the series. i did not like his batting but I can't deny that he turned it around. Even despite that innings i did not want him to go to australia because he did what i feared he would do: perform without context in the last game.
I would invite you to visit this thread:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Khan-s-Test-match-batting-in-2016&highlight=

 

[WengerOut]

I absolutely agree with this. but remember you brought in narrative to all this a few posts earlier.
back on point, yk's numbers against pace are low, but better Pietersen, Clarke, and Chanderpaul when touring. I dont reflexively defend him, because I saw his joke of a batting stance in engand in 2016 before he truned it around in the final test and lead them to a win to draw the series. i did not like his batting but I can't deny that he turned it around. Even despite that innings i did not want him to go to australia because he did what i feared he would do: perform without context in the last game.
I would invite you to visit this thread:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Khan-s-Test-match-batting-in-2016&highlight=

I never brought the narrative of stats or dead rubber or anything. A batsmans caliber can be understood by an avid watcher which i think i am. Younis never had the ability against pace on non SC style tracks. Somebody brought the stats and only for them i stated that every now and then there will be a benign pitch on offer and he will cash on it. Inzi had the technique for SENA tracks, but did not have the stats of Younis. Those are quirks of nature.

 

[Pete Rose]

I never brought the narrative of stats or dead rubber or anything. A batsmans caliber can be understood by an avid watcher which i think i am. Younis never had the ability against pace on non SC style tracks. Somebody brought the stats and only for them i stated that every now and then there will be a benign pitch on offer and he will cash on it. Inzi had the technique for SENA tracks, but did not have the stats of Younis. Those are quirks of nature.

Fair

 

[Ab Fan]

He had weakeness against quality pace and lateral movement.

However, irrespective of this weakness, he has managed to score runs when the team needs and has performed across different countries.

An average of 39 is a respectable output outside Asia for an Asian batsmen. If you won't call him even a great for this number, then what will you call the likes of Virender Sehwag or Mahela Jayawardene who have an average below 35 outside Asia(exclude WI who were very weak, it gets even worse).

Khan has been a dominant batsmen in Asia and has not just passed the biggest test of his career, i.e, performing in India but has earned incredible achievements there.

The ever-smiling Khan is without any doubt a great great test batsmen for me and the king of 4th inning.

 

[Sachin136]

He wasn't poor outside Asia. He didn't have much impact overseas and was generally weak against pace, but he has a decent record. Not a great one though, which is what keeps him from being an ATG.

 

[Zaz]

Younis khans numbers arent poor Why arent the zimbo numbers included Are zimbabwe not outside asia?

This selective stat picking to prove a point in abysmal and pretty patheticcl tbh

Yk has hundreds in all countries away from home Runs that have contributed to wins To say he was poor outside asia shows more about the quality of the poster than anything on younus

 

[shaz619]

Younis was involved in 7 of Pakistan's 9 away wins since making his debut and averages 114 across 5 of those wins in countries which include New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies and England. Unlike he played for his country

 

[CricFan2012]

Which is why he is not considered an ATG by smart fans.

Those stats aren't that shoddy either. He's a second tier batting great.

 

[Savak]

I think another challenge YK faced was the huge gaps between SENA tours while Indian players are touring after every 2-3 years not to mention the A tours and ODI tours, Pakistani players have to tour after 5-6 years. That makes a huge difference.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So you mean that there aren't 21 players from Asia who have averaged better than him outside Asia (bar Zimbabwe)? Or is there criteria I have spoken of has been unheard of?

Fans from the subcontinent have often spoken about the performance of Asian batsman outside of Asia. Anything new?

Is 21 the cut off point? I mean had there only been 5 players who averaged more would that be ok?

Pretty solid logic though I must say. Im quite a big Younis fan but that stat doesnt lie. 21 players with a superior average shows that he should not be an ATG.

Interestingly there are also about 21 players who have a superior overall average to Sachin Tendulkar. Hence why I was asking about the cut off point.

So conclusion is that if there are 21 players with a better average then you shouldnt be considered as an ATG?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yk can get involved in 1000 more wins but critics and real cricket fans won't put him anywhere near sachin.
Sadly younis is a no match to SRT its so big a difference that 90% of the cricketing world will laugh off at this, even debating on this is nothing but a waste of time.
It's like rey mysterio vs brock lesnar, rey mysterio can dance and flip and do whatever he likes but lastly a single blow from the beast will be enough.
Yk has achieved his limits given the amount of talent he had, sachin is a prodigy, cut from different cloth, you can't defeat a natural talent like him.