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Will a Test series loss to India be the end of captaincy for Ben Stokes?

Will a Test series loss to India be the end of captaincy for Ben Stokes?

  • He will continue until Ashes

    Votes: 6 100.0%

  • He will be removed if India win series

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    6
Ball Blazer

Ball Blazer

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The five-match Test series between India and England is currently tied 1-1, with the third game currently underway, and two more games to go.

England pulled off a win in the series opener, whereas the visitors registered a victory in the Edgbaston Test. The win brought some humiliation to Bazball cricket, and questions are raised if someone else will step into Ben Stokes' shoes as red-ball skipper in case India carry on the winning momentum, defeating England at their own backyard.
 
A series defeat alone won't automatically cost Stokes the captaincy. A continued slump, however, would bring intensified calls for change after the series.

Unless there’s a disastrous performance or a change in ECB direction, a series loss to India will likely not end Stokes' captaincy. But it could be a tipping point if followed by further poor results (e.g. the Ashes).
 
It should be. His captaincy has been a PR stunt. One of the worst and most brainless captains I have seen.

He has only been an improvement on Joe Root against weak teams. In the big series, he has produced the exact same results.

On top of that, he doesn’t even merit a place in the team. Offers nothing with both bat and ball.
 
I don’t think so. Bazball with Stokes at the helm is their best strategy given the resources they have.
 
It should the end of his captaincy whether England win or lose the series.

I think Stokes should be dropped. :inti
 
Indians won't like this and claim i am saying it because I am a Pakistani but this series is inconsequential to England fans. It would of course be nicer to win but if they lose they will shrug it off.

Even me as a neutral in this series have the Ashes squad in my mind when I am watching Pope and co bat I am thinking about how they will perform down under just as much as how they are performing now.

Stokes and Bazz have a free pass for a while.

All eyes are on the Ashes. That is going to be a blockbuster series. It will surpass BGT, England India and any other Ashes in hype.

And for such a blockbuster you need the main star even if he is on crutches.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Indians won't like this and claim i am saying it because I am a Pakistani but this series is inconsequential to England fans. It would of course be nicer to win but if they lose they will shrug it off.

Even me as a neutral in this series have the Ashes squad in my mind when I am watching Pope and co bat I am thinking about how they will perform down under just as much as how they are performing now.

Stokes and Bazz have a free pass for a while.

All eyes are on the Ashes. That is going to be a blockbuster series. It will surpass BGT, England India and any other Ashes in hype.

And for such a blockbuster you need the main star even if he is on crutches.
Click to expand...
For the English it's always about the Ashes...that's true.

They use every other series as rehearsal and prep for Ashes snd when touring down under even the ongoing Ashes is prep for next Ashes at home.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
They are worshipping stokes. Even if he spits something on the floor they go "Wow what an amazing spit".
Click to expand...
There are some captains that change the trajectories of a country. They may not be the most successful always but they lay down a marker and set the tone for how the side plays long after they are gone.

Think about Imrans Pakistan, Gangulys India, the way AB shaped the feared Aussie mentality that lead to your Steve Waugh and Ponting.

Stokes is in a similar mould. He has upturned decades of English cricketing style and culture. So they revere him a bit.

In general English cricket establishment has loved a free spirit who doesn't fit the traditional mould - it's why Pakistan of the past was much loved by them and why they were captivated by Shane Warne, but they never let that freedom into their own camp, or when they did they quickly slapped it down. Morgan in LOI and Stokes in Test is a big departure from the cricketing norms in England and they are captivated by them and fawn over them..
Perhaps too much
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Indians won't like this and claim i am saying it because I am a Pakistani but this series is inconsequential to England fans. It would of course be nicer to win but if they lose they will shrug it off.

Even me as a neutral in this series have the Ashes squad in my mind when I am watching Pope and co bat I am thinking about how they will perform down under just as much as how they are performing now.

Stokes and Bazz have a free pass for a while.

All eyes are on the Ashes. That is going to be a blockbuster series. It will surpass BGT, England India and any other Ashes in hype.

And for such a blockbuster you need the main star even if he is on crutches.
Click to expand...

England's Ashes obsession is not exactly breaking news. It has been evident in this series too.
 
RexRex said:
England's Ashes obsession is not exactly breaking news. It has been evident in this series too.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised at the Indian fan attempts to manufacture a similar rivalry with England and the hurt when it isn't reciprocated.

I don't judge those Indian fans too much. We Pakistanis felt it a bit too in the past when we were more competitive in tests...although some historic series did have some edge to them.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Indians won't like this and claim i am saying it because I am a Pakistani but this series is inconsequential to England fans. It would of course be nicer to win but if they lose they will shrug it off.
Click to expand...
They will shrug it off because the Brits have mastered the art of turning up their nose when they are in reality only actually coping. If England do win this series, you will know what I mean. Have seen this before so many times. The only thing true about their sports fans is that most of the country doesn't actually care about cricket. The rest is cope. They are the masters of flipflopping as and when it works for them. And sadly, generations from their colonies whose parents were not even born back then, still play along to their staid fiddle tunes.

But to clarify, I have no doubt and zero issues with England rating the Ashes way above any other series, but to only focus on the Ashes when you are the fan of an international team (or fan of the fan of an international team :ROFLMAO: ) is kind of stupid. Then why play any other cricket. Just play county for 2 years.

On topic, I'm not sure how many wickets Stokes has taken this series and it's probably not many. But he's been the best English bowler and looked the most interesting and threatening. He just needs runs. He already justifies his place with just his bowling. As captain, there is no way they're going to throw a new captain before Australia. It's just not going to happen.
 
Home team rarely loses series with 5 tests.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
There are some captains that change the trajectories of a country. They may not be the most successful always but they lay down a marker and set the tone for how the side plays long after they are gone.

Think about Imrans Pakistan, Gangulys India, the way AB shaped the feared Aussie mentality that lead to your Steve Waugh and Ponting.

Stokes is in a similar mould. He has upturned decades of English cricketing style and culture. So they revere him a bit.

In general English cricket establishment has loved a free spirit who doesn't fit the traditional mould - it's why Pakistan of the past was much loved by them and why they were captivated by Shane Warne, but they never let that freedom into their own camp, or when they did they quickly slapped it down. Morgan in LOI and Stokes in Test is a big departure from the cricketing norms in England and they are captivated by them and fawn over them..
Perhaps too much
Click to expand...
This is next level worshipping. Even his mistakes are celebrated.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
You get used to it when you live here.

When they make someone become a media darling then they are untouchable.

Footballers are the worst.
Click to expand...
And then they take a greater pleasure in the downfall.

First they raise them to a pedestal, and then wait with bated breath for thr downfall....only exception was the late Queen.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
It si a known deflection tactic. Australia doesn't do that. THey don't talk too much about Ashes. They treat every series seriously.
Click to expand...

Like pillion said, it is also partly a coping mechanism for diehard cricket fans in Eng or atleast it used to be. They had a similiar attitude to the ODI WCs for the simple reason that they were never able to win any until recently.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Indians won't like this and claim i am saying it because I am a Pakistani but this series is inconsequential to England fans. It would of course be nicer to win but if they lose they will shrug it off.

Even me as a neutral in this series have the Ashes squad in my mind when I am watching Pope and co bat I am thinking about how they will perform down under just as much as how they are performing now.

Stokes and Bazz have a free pass for a while.

All eyes are on the Ashes. That is going to be a blockbuster series. It will surpass BGT, England India and any other Ashes in hype.

And for such a blockbuster you need the main star even if he is on crutches.
Click to expand...
Ashes are going to be a one sided affair. Starc & Co. will be all over this Eng line up. Including Root. Less said about the Eng bowling the better. Even Marnus will be back in form.
 
TBH, stokes hasn't had a good time in the last WTC and he is looking like struggling again here.. His own form is a huge concern and worth dropping.
 
But....if he cleans up India, he may well become the next coming of Sir Ian Botham :D
 
Don't see England having many captaincy alternatives. Who else will replace him? He's not captain perfect, he makes blunders but under him England have become more exciting to watch and there is always a mercurial element, what will England do under him? England can do anything. He needs to find his form with the bat.
 
Savak said:
Don't see England having many captaincy alternatives. Who else will replace him? He's not captain perfect, he makes blunders but under him England have become more exciting to watch and there is always a mercurial element, what will England do under him? England can do anything. He needs to find his form with the bat.
Click to expand...
Brook and Duckett are ready.
 
Savak said:
Don't see England having many captaincy alternatives. Who else will replace him? He's not captain perfect, he makes blunders but under him England have become more exciting to watch and there is always a mercurial element, what will England do under him? England can do anything. He needs to find his form with the bat.
Click to expand...

I think Pope should be the captain.

He is neither too old nor too young. He has over 50 Tests under his belt. His position in the team is pretty secured also.

Another option would be Ben Duckett or Harry Brook.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
There are some captains that change the trajectories of a country. They may not be the most successful always but they lay down a marker and set the tone for how the side plays long after they are gone.

Think about Imrans Pakistan, Gangulys India, the way AB shaped the feared Aussie mentality that lead to your Steve Waugh and Ponting.

Stokes is in a similar mould. He has upturned decades of English cricketing style and culture. So they revere him a bit.

In general English cricket establishment has loved a free spirit who doesn't fit the traditional mould - it's why Pakistan of the past was much loved by them and why they were captivated by Shane Warne, but they never let that freedom into their own camp, or when they did they quickly slapped it down. Morgan in LOI and Stokes in Test is a big departure from the cricketing norms in England and they are captivated by them and fawn over them..
Perhaps too much
Click to expand...
I don't think he is that great. His batting has been mediocre for quite some time now. As a bowler, he can produce some match-turning spells but somehow it feels like the specter of an injury is always around the corner.

Bazball has brought them alot of success but if it really was such a great strategy then they wouldn't have abandoned it mid-series by producing a pitch like this..
 
sweep_shot said:
I think Pope should be the captain.

He is neither too old nor too young. He has over 50 Tests under his belt. His position in the team is pretty secured also.

Another option would be Ben Duckett or Harry Brook.
Click to expand...

Pope's place in the side is questionable, he is terribly inconsistent as a batsman and cannot be relied upon in tough situations. Another Ian Bell
 
Savak said:
Pope's place in the side is questionable, he is terribly inconsistent as a batsman and cannot be relied upon in tough situations. Another Ian Bell
Click to expand...

England don't have many other options to replace Pope.

I think Pope's position is not in danger.
 
Stokes finally delivered an elite performance with bat, ball and as captain when England desperately needed it. I think special praise has to be given to the knock he played in the first innings. He did not resort to playing his 'natural game' and instead showed alot of restraint. And that partnership between him and Root ended up being their most important partnership of the match.

Now contrast that with that idiot Pant taking a needless and unnecessary risk, getting runout and ending India's most important partnership of the match---which could have put them in the ascendency after the first innings.

In a test match, there are are only two explanations for getting runout. Either you're unlucky (i.e. your partner sold you down the river), or you're stupid. There isn't a third explanation.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Stokes captaincy hinges on Ashes but this Test must be giving him little heart attacks
Click to expand...
I think he is a great captain. Him making a mistake in the 2nd test shouldn't account for him being a bad captain.

He clearly turned England into a fortress.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Lol he will lose ashes pretty bad bro
Click to expand...
Beating Aus in Aus is hard, Even an expired Aus washed India 3-1 with a lucky escape from rain in one test.

Yes india has had success in Aus but beating them in said conditions has always been difficult.

Even during Pre ww2 era, England vs Aus in England would have resulted in England winning if not for Bradman who was the sole deciding factor.

But in Aus Bradman was irrelevant. Even the rare few matches he dismt kick off, England got demolished.

England getting butchered in aus minus a few times has been a consistent trend for 100+ years now.
 
He led by example and bowled 24 overs in the second innings and in 9-10 overs spells where he bowled between 136-141 km/hr (85-88 mph). He had bowled 20 overs in the first innings and mind you he is managing a knee problem where his body finds it hard to cope with back to back test matches which is why he quit ODI cricket to prolong his test career. He has found a way around it by using himself sparingly and strategically as a bowler but when his team needs him, he steps up and leads by example.

As a captain he needs to get his toss decisions and team selections right, he has too much faith in Woakes and Bashir and they have not really repaid that fate, if England can find a potent spinner and a more potent seamer in place of stokes their bowling attack will be more penetrative.
 
Will you see the likes of Shaheen, Naseem bowl 9-10 over spells in test cricket with speeds of 87-90 mph? These guys run out of steam after their first spell of 4 overs and resort to 130-133 km/hr stuff from their second spell onwards and look at what Ben Stokes has done for England as captain today inspite of a problematic knee.
 
That was a Herculean bowling effort today. He wanted to take the wicket and put his body on the line bowling with fire and aggression.

A counterpoint is that perhaps it was a bit selfish and that he could have used his resources more rather than run stubbornly run himself into the ground.

But with the result going in his favour we can't criticize too much.
 
Savak said:
He led by example and bowled 24 overs in the second innings and in 9-10 overs spells where he bowled between 136-141 km/hr (85-88 mph). He had bowled 20 overs in the first innings and mind you he is managing a knee problem where his body finds it hard to cope with back to back test matches which is why he quit ODI cricket to prolong his test career. He has found a way around it by using himself sparingly and strategically as a bowler but when his team needs him, he steps up and leads by example.

As a captain he needs to get his toss decisions and team selections right, he has too much faith in Woakes and Bashir and they have not really repaid that fate, if England can find a potent spinner and a more potent seamer in place of stokes their bowling attack will be more penetrative.
Click to expand...
That seems a bit unfair on Woakes who has nearly 200 Test wickets at around 29. That’s not awful. But clearly his days are numbered, age-wise.
 
Mamoon said:
It should be. His captaincy has been a PR stunt. One of the worst and most brainless captains I have seen.

He has only been an improvement on Joe Root against weak teams. In the big series, he has produced the exact same results.

On top of that, he doesn’t even merit a place in the team. Offers nothing with both bat and ball.
Click to expand...

I generally enjoy your takes and find them interesting, but you’ve got a big blind spot on this specific topic, and I note that since the all-round match winning performance from Stokes at Lord’s you have gone missing from this thread. He is a natural leader and a giant of English cricket, indisputable.
 
James said:
I generally enjoy your takes and find them interesting, but you’ve got a big blind spot on this specific topic, and I note that since the all-round match winning performance from Stokes at Lord’s you have gone missing from this thread. He is a natural leader and a giant of English cricket, indisputable.
Click to expand...
He did an admirable job at Lord’s. It was a resilient effort to help England win, but does that discount a 2-2 home Ashes with an arrogant, costly declaration in the first Test, a 1-4 and 1-2 pelting in the subcontinent and an arrogant, costly decision to bowl first at Edgbaston that cost England the Test?

In addition to this, he has been strictly average as an individual performer throughout his captaincy.

The Lord’s Test was probably his most impactful performance as a player since becoming the captain in 2022, and with all said and done, it was a pretty standard performance where he didn’t score many runs and bowled a long spell.

He has set such a low bar for his individual performance in his captaincy that any run or any wicket that he takes is romanticized.

I don’t think anyone needs me to stand in queue and laud his performance in the Lord’s Test because he already gets glorifed enough, perhaps more than he is entitled to, but I don’t think he gets nearly as much scrutiny as he deserves. He is protected a little too much.
 
Mamoon said:
He did an admirable job at Lord’s. It was a resilient effort to help England win, but does that discount a 2-2 home Ashes with an arrogant, costly declaration in the first Test, a 1-4 and 1-2 pelting in the subcontinent and an arrogant, costly decision to bowl first at Edgbaston that cost England the Test?

In addition to this, he has been strictly average as an individual performer throughout his captaincy.

The Lord’s Test was probably his most impactful performance as a player since becoming the captain in 2022, and with all said and done, it was a pretty standard performance where he didn’t score many runs and bowled a long spell.

He has set such a low bar for his individual performance in his captaincy that any run or any wicket that he takes is romanticized.

I don’t think anyone needs me to stand in queue and laud his performance in the Lord’s Test because he already gets glorifed enough, perhaps more than he is entitled to, but I don’t think he gets nearly as much scrutiny as he deserves. He is protected a little too much.
Click to expand...
He might help England win wtc 2027 just saying.

I believe england will wualify this time around. Ashes is the only question mark.

Assuming they dont get thrashed theyll likely qualify
 
mominsaigol said:
He might help England win wtc 2027 just saying.

I believe england will wualify this time around. Ashes is the only question mark.

Assuming they dont get thrashed theyll likely qualify
Click to expand...
Nah, ther have to face SA away too.

Bangladesh will also prepare turners and Eng has no quality spinners.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Nah, ther have to face SA away too.

Bangladesh will also prepare turners and Eng has no quality spinners.
Click to expand...
I back england to reach wtc final. I have a feeling this time they will win it.

I'm backing a England vs NZ/SA final for dome reason. Idkw. I dont think Aus or India will reach this time around.
 
Mamoon said:
He did an admirable job at Lord’s. It was a resilient effort to help England win, but does that discount a 2-2 home Ashes with an arrogant, costly declaration in the first Test, a 1-4 and 1-2 pelting in the subcontinent and an arrogant, costly decision to bowl first at Edgbaston that cost England the Test?

In addition to this, he has been strictly average as an individual performer throughout his captaincy.

The Lord’s Test was probably his most impactful performance as a player since becoming the captain in 2022, and with all said and done, it was a pretty standard performance where he didn’t score many runs and bowled a long spell.

He has set such a low bar for his individual performance in his captaincy that any run or any wicket that he takes is romanticized.

I don’t think anyone needs me to stand in queue and laud his performance in the Lord’s Test because he already gets glorifed enough, perhaps more than he is entitled to, but I don’t think he gets nearly as much scrutiny as he deserves. He is protected a little too much.
Click to expand...

Which captain hasn’t made a costly declaration mistake, a wrong toss decision, or lost an away series? You’d be hard pressed to find any international captain, not just from this era who doesn’t have most or all of that on his CV.
 
Even if had lost he wouldn't have been impacted. Third test he was worried about losing as the total was real meagre total if you survive first 25 overs. So he used up every ounce of energy left in tank to make sure that did not happen. Stokes did his bit. So even with loss he would not have been criticized. They would have criticized crawley a lot more
 
Many articles in the english media are proclaming Ben as the second coming of the messiah, simply because he bowled a couple of extra overs in the 3rd test. So cringeworthy these pommy journos.
 
RexRex said:
Many articles in the english media are proclaming Ben as the second coming of the messiah, simply because he bowled a couple of extra overs in the 3rd test. So cringeworthy these pommy journos.
Click to expand...
Lol, probably the most undeserving MOTM award I have seen.

Bowled a couple of extra overs got, Bumrahs wicket (Bumrah threw it away) . Did nothing significant with the bat.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Lol, probably the most undeserving MOTM award I have seen.

Bowled a couple of extra overs got, Bumrahs wicket (Bumrah threw it away) . Did nothing significant with the bat.
Click to expand...
Stokes is known for making things happen. The way he picked the wicket of Akash Deep on Day 4 send dizziness in Indian camp and as a result, flurry of wickets started and India lost the game. On paper, it is just 1 wicket for him but that is alone bigger than what England have won in last 50 years. Hence, he is a messiah. :inti
 
Stokes got runs and wickets in both innings, was at the centre of pivotal moments in the game including a decisive run out when his team were on the mat, and put in a solid captaincy display to come back from a thrashing & lead his team to a vital win in arguably the most important Test of the series. If the MOTM is the player who had the biggest impact on the match result, then this was a very well deserved MOTM.
 
RexRex said:
Many articles in the english media are proclaming Ben as the second coming of the messiah, simply because he bowled a couple of extra overs in the 3rd test. So cringeworthy these pommy journos.
Click to expand...

Bumrah is also apparently the Goatedness bowler of all time despite comprehensively going missing in the second innings at Headingley which handed England an easy win, the rest of the bowlers performing better without him in Birmingham, and coming back at Lord’s to contribute to a second consecutive losing effort. Clearly every nation has its cringe hero elements.
 
James said:
Bumrah is also apparently the Goatedness bowler of all time despite comprehensively going missing in the second innings at Headingley which handed England an easy win, the rest of the bowlers performing better without him in Birmingham, and coming back at Lord’s to contribute to a second consecutive losing effort. Clearly every nation has its cringe hero elements.
Click to expand...

To be fair, atleast Bumrah has somewhat GOATish stats to back him whereas Ben just has a Goatee beard.
 
mominsaigol said:
I back england to reach wtc final. I have a feeling this time they will win it.

I'm backing an England vs NZ/SA final for dome reason. Idkw. I dont think Aus or India will reach this time around.
Click to expand...
SA are having relatively tough tours away both home and away so their chances are not very high.

India have a good chance considering they have an away tour to SL, which they can win easily. Home matches vs WI, SA should be easy and they will be playing Aus in Jan 2027, Lyon may be gone or on last leg by then.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Lol, probably the most undeserving MOTM award I have seen.

Bowled a couple of extra overs got, Bumrahs wicket (Bumrah threw it away) . Did nothing significant with the bat.
Click to expand...
I agree. Bumrah should've gotten the MOTM. Had he not tried pulling that ball. India would've won it. But it was his grace that showed mercy to England.
 
James said:
Stokes got runs and wickets in both innings, was at the centre of pivotal moments in the game including a decisive run out when his team were on the mat, and put in a solid captaincy display to come back from a thrashing & lead his team to a vital win in arguably the most important Test of the series. If the MOTM is the player who had the biggest impact on the match result, then this was a very well deserved MOTM.
Click to expand...
Yea. England were staring at defeat given how INdia dominated England's bowling 5 innings in a row. SO it was creditable they created some panic out of nothing. India meekly succumbed to new ball pressure.
 
shamaan said:
If stokes with the ashes it will be the greatest test victory off all time for England.
Click to expand...
Yes England will forever be debted to Stokes for winning the Ashes in Australia. Last 3 tours when Stokes played, the result was either 0-4 or 0-5. Wonder what was Stokes doing all this while.
 
James said:
Which captain hasn’t made a costly declaration mistake, a wrong toss decision, or lost an away series? You’d be hard pressed to find any international captain, not just from this era who doesn’t have most or all of that on his CV.
Click to expand...
If Stokes is put on a pedestal and credited for reviving interest in Test cricket and revolutionizing the way the game is played, he will be held to higher standards than other.

I think the Stokes era is over-glorified. If Bazball is as great as it is made to be, and if Stokes is as great a captain as he is made out to be, their results in the big Test series over the last couple of years wouldn’t have been so ordinary.
 
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