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Will India send troops to Afghanistan?

KingKhanWC

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India is desperate for the current Nato installed Afghan government to remain in power.

India has trying talking to the Taliban who have not responded as they would have liked.

There are allegations India has flown in ammuniations to help them.

Afghan government has requested more, in the form of military assistance.

Will India send in troops?

If so will their soldiers be able to do what 40+ nations troops couldnt and conquer Afghanistan?
 
India is desperate for the current Nato installed Afghan government to remain in power.

India has trying talking to the Taliban who have not responded as they would have liked.

There are allegations India has flown in ammuniations to help them.

Afghan government has requested more, in the form of military assistance.

Will India send in troops?

If so will their soldiers be able to do what 40+ nations troops couldnt and conquer Afghanistan?

I think it's the only logical thing for Ind to do to protect their proxies. Maybe they can train the RSS types to fight the Taliban.
 
I think it's the only logical thing for Ind to do to protect their proxies. Maybe they can train the RSS types to fight the Taliban.

Its possible. India have spent $3 billion in Afghanistan! This is a huge amount, could have changed the lives of millions of Indians, therefore shows how important Afghanistan is to India.

Can any Indian posters explain why India needs to have influence in Afghanistan?
 
I think it's the only logical thing for Ind to do to protect their proxies. Maybe they can train the RSS types to fight the Taliban.

:))

It is laughable. Imagine these little RSS manlets who are used to hit lone women, children and malnourished elderly trying to invade Afghanistan :yk

Auckland's Folly will be a picnic in comparison to what the locals will do to them!

Nah, India only buys terrorists to spread death and destruction into Pakistan.
 
I think they will and i really hope they do too!:starc The Taliban who have just hammered the American's will be waiting with flowers and ladu's!!:))):)))
 
Its possible. India have spent $3 billion in Afghanistan! This is a huge amount, could have changed the lives of millions of Indians, therefore shows how important Afghanistan is to India.

Can any Indian posters explain why India needs to have influence in Afghanistan?

due to historic lineage.
 
More important question is: would india accept the brother afghan refugees (millions in case of civil war).
 
More important question is: would india accept the brother afghan refugees (millions in case of civil war).

Another important question is, if India deems it fit to interfere in an other country's internal matters by providing ammunition and weapons to one group, then does it have the right to object on Pakistan IF Pakistan supplies weapons and ammunition to Kashmiri freedom fighters?
 
Another important question is, if India deems it fit to interfere in an other country's internal matters by providing ammunition and weapons to one group, then does it have the right to object on Pakistan IF Pakistan supplies weapons and ammunition to Kashmiri freedom fighters?

Well, india already got caught red handed with its chaddi down, doing exactly that in Pakistan ��
As for interference in Afghanistan, I guess US or Russia can answer that better.
 
I doubt the Afghan govt asked for actual foot soldiers in Afghanistan, they probably meant ammunition and some military equipments when they asked for military assistance from India. No self respecting army would ask a foreign army to fight their war and save their country.
 
I doubt the Afghan govt asked for actual foot soldiers in Afghanistan, they probably meant ammunition and some military equipments when they asked for military assistance from India. No self respecting army would ask a foreign army to fight their war and save their country.

Interestingly that's how the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan started - the PDPA govt invited the red army to defend them against threats to their power.
 
After what happened to the Soviet Union and the US, I dont think India or any other country will ever want to send troops to Afghanistan.
 
Another important question is, if India deems it fit to interfere in an other country's internal matters by providing ammunition and weapons to one group, then does it have the right to object on Pakistan IF Pakistan supplies weapons and ammunition to Kashmiri freedom fighters?

The Afghan government is the legitimate govt recognised by UN and most countries. Govt to govt weapons deals are perfectly legal.

Ofcourse pakistanis like you would compare it to supplying weapons to designated terrorist groups.
 
Interestingly that's how the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan started - the PDPA govt invited the red army to defend them against threats to their power.

Well the PDPA were the communists - particularly the Khalq faction in power who were hardcore ones and brought radical Lenin style reforms to their muslim society that was odds with the prevailing norms and lifestyle then. They also persecuted anyone who dissented to their ways. They really saw the Soviet Union as sort of a mother country whose ideals they had to emulate.

The ones currently in power in Afghan govt are not the communists but rather the ones who were fighting the communist government then.
 
What is the problem if India provided weapons to a legitimate government? Pakistan has been allegedly aiding terror outfits such as the Haqqani Network. Tell me which is worse?
 
The Afghan government is the legitimate govt recognised by UN and most countries. Govt to govt weapons deals are perfectly legal.

Ofcourse pakistanis like you would compare it to supplying weapons to designated terrorist groups.

If Pakistan had international credibility, and logically explored this avenue, I think they would still be able to call out India on it if they declared Afghanistan to be a complicated state, such as Gaza.

However, with no UN documents officially prohibiting the supplying of arms and weapons, I don't think Pakistan can contest this, unless supplying these arms was destroying a UN orchestrated peace deal, which it isn't.

I would say that India did get quite lucky that the UN was as brain-damaged as usual with regards to not trying to conduct peace deals and make the appropriate resolutions regarding the situation in Afghanistan.
 
What is the problem if India provided weapons to a legitimate government? Pakistan has been allegedly aiding terror outfits such as the Haqqani Network. Tell me which is worse?

It depends.

If supplying these weapons in any way, shape, or form destroyed the possibility of a peace deal, then there would be a very big problem.

From the news I'm hearing, it did not do that, the only thing which India will have to be cautious of is that the Taliban are not going to be that friendly if they take full power.

Afghanistan is about to become a very, very messy place. Nobody knows what India's actions have done, or what they may cause in the future.

Until Pakistan can prove to me that they don't finance terrorists (ie. getting off the FATF Grey List), then I will believe it, otherwise, I still maintain that the government is keeping ties with such terrorists.
 
Beware of what you ask, for it might prompt the Hindustanis to revive The Legend of Badshah Khan!!!

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If Pakistan had international credibility, and logically explored this avenue, I think they would still be able to call out India on it if they declared Afghanistan to be a complicated state, such as Gaza.

However, with no UN documents officially prohibiting the supplying of arms and weapons, I don't think Pakistan can contest this, unless supplying these arms was destroying a UN orchestrated peace deal, which it isn't.

I would say that India did get quite lucky that the UN was as brain-damaged as usual with regards to not trying to conduct peace deals and make the appropriate resolutions regarding the situation in Afghanistan.

How are Gaza and Afghanistan comparable though. With Gaza, you can make an argument that it's being occupied.

The Afghanistan government is literally made up of Afghans (most of whom actually fought the Soviet as Mujahideens) rather than foreigners.
 
If Pakistan had international credibility, and logically explored this avenue, I think they would still be able to call out India on it if they declared Afghanistan to be a complicated state, such as Gaza.

However, with no UN documents officially prohibiting the supplying of arms and weapons, I don't think Pakistan can contest this, unless supplying these arms was destroying a UN orchestrated peace deal, which it isn't.

I would say that India did get quite lucky that the UN was as brain-damaged as usual with regards to not trying to conduct peace deals and make the appropriate resolutions regarding the situation in Afghanistan.

Afghan government is an internationally recognised govt. They have all the rights of a sovereign state, including buying weapons. NATO is supplying them weapons too. There is nothing pakistan can do about it.
 
India only contributes troops to UN mandated peacekeeping missions. They have never sent their troops anywhere on their own accord.
 
How are Gaza and Afghanistan comparable though. With Gaza, you can make an argument that it's being occupied.

The Afghanistan government is literally made up of Afghans (most of whom actually fought the Soviet as Mujahideens) rather than foreigners.

I was only citing Gaza if Afghanistan was declared to be a complicated state as such. As of now, they aren't really comparable.

The real issue in Afghanistan will be how international communities approach the Taliban. Hopefully most countries do not recognize the Taliban, but I can easily see some countries deciding to do so.

Anyways, it is very hard to comment on Afghanistan right now apart from the fact that the Taliban are taking over more districts and at a very rapid pace.

If India chooses to supply weapons and ammunition but the spread of the Taliban is not reduced, it will not be a good sign as the billions they spent on Afghanistan will be lost.

I would be interested in knowing what exactly India desires from Afghanistan to the point that they are willing to squander any chance of having peace with the Taliban in the future.
 
Afghan government is an internationally recognised govt. They have all the rights of a sovereign state, including buying weapons. NATO is supplying them weapons too. There is nothing pakistan can do about it.

I understand that part completely.

The ambiguity I am questioning is why India is choosing to go through such trouble with the Taliban by supplying arms to the current Afghanistan government.

What exactly is driving them to spend billions on Afghanistan?

I think that a major factor is that any country which can deal with the mess in Afghanistan will effectively gain supreme trust in the western world.

Pakistan tried negotiating a US-Taliban peace deal, the United States bombed the living daylights out of Afghanistan, India is now sending weapons and ammunition to counter Taliban advances, and more recently, Turkey is trying to get involved to fix the situation.

That is my view on Afghanistan: it has become a test for a country to attempt to clear up the mess and gain a lot of respect, and better trade relations with the western world. The US wants someone else to do the dirty work, and the same applies to the rest of the western world.

I would be curious to know what you think of all that.
 
Afghan government is an internationally recognised govt. They have all the rights of a sovereign state, including buying weapons. NATO is supplying them weapons too. There is nothing pakistan can do about it.

When Americans left they didn't even inform the so called "internationally recognized government".

Heck in last year or so Taliban spokespersons have met with more foreign delegations than these puppets.

India have lost a lot of time and money (that should have been spent on Indians) on these useless and incompetent clowns.
 
I understand that part completely.

The ambiguity I am questioning is why India is choosing to go through such trouble with the Taliban by supplying arms to the current Afghanistan government.

What exactly is driving them to spend billions on Afghanistan?

I think that a major factor is that any country which can deal with the mess in Afghanistan will effectively gain supreme trust in the western world.

Pakistan tried negotiating a US-Taliban peace deal, the United States bombed the living daylights out of Afghanistan, India is now sending weapons and ammunition to counter Taliban advances, and more recently, Turkey is trying to get involved to fix the situation.

That is my view on Afghanistan: it has become a test for a country to attempt to clear up the mess and gain a lot of respect, and better trade relations with the western world. The US wants someone else to do the dirty work, and the same applies to the rest of the western world.

I would be curious to know what you think of all that.

What is the confirmed source of India sending it?

OP is asking if India will send it.

Your proposals are based upon your own hypothesis devoid of any verified source as of now.

If you could provide sources for your claim, I'll read.
 
India already accepted millions of Bangladeshi refugees in 1971.

Yes because they were obliged to after interfering in Pakistan's internal affairs.

For the same reasons they should also accept millions of Afghan refugees if they want to poke their nose in Afghan affairs when they have no direct border with them.
 
Yes because they were obliged to after interfering in Pakistan's internal affairs.

For the same reasons they should also accept millions of Afghan refugees if they want to poke their nose in Afghan affairs when they have no direct border with them.

No one is obligated in this world. World is run by the survival of the fittest. The rest is generosity.
 
No one is obligated in this world. World is run by the survival of the fittest. The rest is generosity.

Try showing some generosity to Indians instead of Afghans would be my advice. Once there is a good standard of living at home, you can look at showing generosity abroad.
 
Try showing some generosity to Indians instead of Afghans would be my advice. Once there is a good standard of living at home, you can look at showing generosity abroad.

showing generosity isn't exclusive. just because I show generosity to you doesn't mean I can't show the same to let's say WhenSultansBowled or UzmanBeast.

standard of living is subjective and changes from one framework to another. For you, born with a silver spoon can be standard of living while same might not be in my case. Since the concept itself is run by ambiguity, not sure how you can determine the outcome here.
 
It seems a pointless exercise for India to be worrying about Afghanistan when they already have Pakistan there as a buffer state. If Afghans were on Indian border one could understand their concern. India is in a great position to build better communication with Pakistan which is actually on India's doorstep, then Afghanistan would look after itself leaving Indians to focus on matters closer to home such as Bengal border, Sri Lanka, Tibet and China.
 
What is the confirmed source of India sending it?

OP is asking if India will send it.

Your proposals are based upon your own hypothesis devoid of any verified source as of now.

If you could provide sources for your claim, I'll read.

Yes, I shared my personal views on the topic based on what I've seen. You can choose whether to read it or not, that's up to you. I just shared what I felt was developing in the region, and if my hypothesis is in some way true, it will be on the news sooner than later.

I believe there were a few articles already on India supplying arms to Afghanistan as early as 2016. At the moment, I don't really care to provide any sources because most are websites that have stated that India is supplying arms are very biased.

Based on the confirmed sources in 2016 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-india-defence-idUSKCN10X29W), I do understand that India has some interest in Afghanistan.

The sole topic of my post, was why India is putting so much money in Afghanistan? Is it political, regional, or are there other reasons like the one I mentioned?
 
No one is obligated in this world. World is run by the survival of the fittest. The rest is generosity.

Generosity does not exist in the political scheme of things.

Every single interaction between two bodies in power happens by providing things to each other which one does not have.

As you said, the world is dictated by the survival of the fittest. In that case, Afghanistan's survival does not correlate at all with India, in any way, shape or form.

Yes, one could bring in political gibberish without proof by saying that India is buttering up Afghanistan to annoy Pakistan. But then again, where's the proof?

The same can be said by hypothesizing that Afghanistan could be a major investment opportunity for India, but then again, there is hardly any proof that Afghanistan's economy can provide what India needs for a viable trade partner.

The conundrum at the moment is why India is going through the trouble of helping the Afghan government, when it could jeopardize their future relations if the Taliban take the country by the throat.

Unfortunately, neither you nor I have an answer to that question.

The best we can do is hypothesize, you believe it is generosity, I believe it's doing the bidding of the west.

Only time will tell.
 
It seems a pointless exercise for India to be worrying about Afghanistan when they already have Pakistan there as a buffer state. If Afghans were on Indian border one could understand their concern. India is in a great position to build better communication with Pakistan which is actually on India's doorstep, then Afghanistan would look after itself leaving Indians to focus on matters closer to home such as Bengal border, Sri Lanka, Tibet and China.

If things were only that simple Captain, then India and Pakistan would be bffs or even China and India for that matter.

Land and regional disputes always complicate relationships though. For India to build better communication with Pakistan, Pakistan would demand a resolution for Kashmir issue first, which means effectively surrendering the Kashmir valley from Indian pov, which is not acceptable for the Indian state. For Pakistan, engaging in a dialogue with India without resolving the Kashmir dispute is unacceptable from their pov. It's why both of our countries have been at loggerheads ever since our independence. China and India have disputes for the same reason and Afghanistan and Pakistan have disputes for the same reason. Disputes over who owns what.
 
India only contributes troops to UN mandated peacekeeping missions. They have never sent their troops anywhere on their own accord.

Well its time. All you guys is talk, after your investment in proxies is/has been laid to waste. Lets see some action
 
Lots of nations are ready to sell arms to Afghanistan. wonder why the world is conspiring against the Taliban?
 
no chance, the military expenditure would dwarf what they've spent on that country so far.

the indian army is significantly inferior to the americans, and even they couldn't exert control over the more remote parts of the country. if India did engage itd get bogged down in a low level guerrilla war which would just drain their money until they decided to leave.

would take a miscalculation of momentous proportions to embark on such a venture.
 
Afghans have to fight their own battles. They have to decide between freedom and Taliban themselves. You cannot defeat an ideology heavily ingrained in the people using force. Education and critical free thinking can only bring a change in Afghanistan.
 
no chance, the military expenditure would dwarf what they've spent on that country so far.

the indian army is significantly inferior to the americans, and even they couldn't exert control over the more remote parts of the country. if India did engage itd get bogged down in a low level guerrilla war which would just drain their money until they decided to leave.

would take a miscalculation of momentous proportions to embark on such a venture.

But they are obsessed with Afghanistan these days and they have 1000s of RSS types that are desperate for "action". Let them loose in Afghanistan and let them take on the Taliban the Indians hate so much.
 
no chance, the military expenditure would dwarf what they've spent on that country so far.

the indian army is significantly inferior to the americans, and even they couldn't exert control over the more remote parts of the country. if India did engage itd get bogged down in a low level guerrilla war which would just drain their money until they decided to leave.

would take a miscalculation of momentous proportions to embark on such a venture.

In a conventional war, even Srilankan army can crush Taliban. But these Taliban hide among common people. You cannot tell who is who.
Worse, Taliban will retreat to remote areas and they can wait for decades at a stretch for their opportunity.
 
Pak posters here can blame India for terrorism in their country all day long, but the fact is that, had the ISI not supported the Taliban in the first place, the likes of TTP would never have sprung up in their country. Pakistanis blaming India entirely for terrorism in Pakistan is like Indians blaming Pakistan entirely for the Kashmir insurgency while ignoring the underlying cause for it.
 
The generosity of any entity is reflected in track records and gives a probable outcome for future.

Exactly.
Historically, no outsider was able to get success when they arrived into Afghanistan. Trillions were lost, countries got to the brink of bankruptcy, countries got broken into pieces.

And now, that India is trying it's luck in Afghanistan, we can easily take a wild guess on "probable outcome for the future, based on "generosity of any entity that is reflected in the track records".

India's involvement in Afghanistan is a win win situation for all concerned parties. This is going to be fun.
 
Exactly.
Historically, no outsider was able to get success when they arrived into Afghanistan. Trillions were lost, countries got to the brink of bankruptcy, countries got broken into pieces.

And now, that India is trying it's luck in Afghanistan, we can easily take a wild guess on "probable outcome for the future, based on "generosity of any entity that is reflected in the track records".

India's involvement in Afghanistan is a win win situation for all concerned parties. This is going to be fun.

You may lose a bettle but you should aim for win the war. This generosity gesture may go in vain, but it will reflect the growing reputation even more and the trust that others bestowed upon you.
 
You may lose a bettle but you should aim for win the war. This generosity gesture may go in vain, but it will reflect the growing reputation even more and the trust that others bestowed upon you.

lol. whatever your hopeless philosophy even means, good luck in Afghanistan. :D
 
lol. whatever your hopeless philosophy even means, good luck in Afghanistan. :D

This is why Pakistan as a whole will be always far behind in terms of relationships with other countries. You guys go for short term goals than long terms.... India does opposite.
 
Indian army is more attuned to the language, traditions and culture of the locals and power centres in Afghanistan, than the largely white by-the-book armies of NATO who use translators and have to second guess everything in an alien environment.

In other words, India can break Afghanistan into two pieces like it did to Pakistan in 1971 .. which is an outcome we should avoid.
 
Pak posters here can blame India for terrorism in their country all day long, but the fact is that, had the ISI not supported the Taliban in the first place, the likes of TTP would never have sprung up in their country. Pakistanis blaming India entirely for terrorism in Pakistan is like Indians blaming Pakistan entirely for the Kashmir insurgency while ignoring the underlying cause for it.

TTP is not the same as the Afghan Taliban, who themselves have confirmed this many times inc recently. Its a bunch of mercenaries who are funded by India and perhaps others to carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan. Pakistans mistake was joining the War OF Terror, which helped these state actors to recruit brainwashed kids mostly, inc paying them.

This is why India is desperate for the staus quo, to continue their work.

Indian army is more attuned to the language, traditions and culture of the locals and power centres in Afghanistan, than the largely white by-the-book armies of NATO who use translators and have to second guess everything in an alien environment.

In other words, India can break Afghanistan into two pieces like it did to Pakistan in 1971 .. which is an outcome we should avoid.

Interesting, please explain being in tune with which culture and how this tune will help India defeat what the worlds biggest and most trained powers couldnt. Thanks
 
TTP is not the same as the Afghan Taliban, who themselves have confirmed this many times inc recently. Its a bunch of mercenaries who are funded by India and perhaps others to carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan. Pakistans mistake was joining the War OF Terror, which helped these state actors to recruit brainwashed kids mostly, inc paying them.

This is why India is desperate for the staus quo, to continue their work.

And who brainwashed them?
 
And who brainwashed them?

The leaders of the TTP who are mercenaries. This is nothing new, such
asymmetrical warfare has been seen many times before. Again Pak made a mistake joining the immoral war even allowing drone strikes on their own people but those days are long gone now. Pak army now has almost wiped them out. Its a lot easier to do this when their is no foriegn support.

I cant think of any other reason why India is desperate to remain in Afghanistan. Can you think of any? Please dont tell me they care. $3 billion would have done a lot of caring for the hundreds of millions of poor in India. Do you support Indian boots in Afghanistan and do you think they could do what Nato couldnt?
 
Indian army is more attuned to the language, traditions and culture of the locals and power centres in Afghanistan, than the largely white by-the-book armies of NATO who use translators and have to second guess everything in an alien environment.

In other words, India can break Afghanistan into two pieces like it did to Pakistan in 1971 .. which is an outcome we should avoid.

So if breaking a country is an agreed upon option then it should be OK if Pakistan tries break Kashmir from India?
By the way, the British broke India in quite a few pieces, so we should continue the trend, no?
 
This is why Pakistan as a whole will be always far behind in terms of relationships with other countries. You guys go for short term goals than long terms.... India does opposite.

lol... dude, you should be thankful that we are wishing you good luck in Afghanistan.
 
Afghan government is an internationally recognised govt. They have all the rights of a sovereign state, including buying weapons. NATO is supplying them weapons too. There is nothing pakistan can do about it.

The "internationally recognized govt" only have power till Kabul, and rightfully so. We talk about democracy, but do you know that the last election only had like 7-9% of Afghans turning out. A govt in Afghanistan without Taliban is not possible. If we see taliban as afghans, there is nothing wrong in that. A future Afghan govt should have entities from both parties, based on election throughout Afghanistan, and not just in Kabul and Greater Area. That is exactly what the current peace deal warrants.
 
You may lose a bettle but you should aim for win the war. This generosity gesture may go in vain, but it will reflect the growing reputation even more and the trust that others bestowed upon you.

What is even the point of this?
What your indian govt and Raw is doing in Afghanistan is in front of everyone. Your ministers are so shameful, they even met Taliban in last ditch attempts to have presence in Afghanistan, so that it could weaponize TTP and other proxies that are killing children, women and other innocents in Pakistan. We all know what they're doing. If you are progressive, you would acknowledge that, and move forward by accepting the status quo, which is indians leaving afghanistan overnight, just like the Americans did.
 
Afghans have to fight their own battles. They have to decide between freedom and Taliban themselves. You cannot defeat an ideology heavily ingrained in the people using force. Education and critical free thinking can only bring a change in Afghanistan.

Probably the best post to describe the realistic solution.
 
The Afghan government is the legitimate govt recognised by UN and most countries. Govt to govt weapons deals are perfectly legal.

Ofcourse pakistanis like you would compare it to supplying weapons to designated terrorist groups.

what defines a "legitimate govt"?

USA, Pakistan, India and UN have all held negotiations with Talibans as a recognized political entity.

Now, if they come into power by a winning by total or a coalition based majority, then their govt will be legitimate?
 
Its possible. India have spent $3 billion in Afghanistan! This is a huge amount, could have changed the lives of millions of Indians, therefore shows how important Afghanistan is to India.

Can any Indian posters explain why India needs to have influence in Afghanistan?

How much is Pakistan spending on Taliban?
 
Depends on their performance against RSS elements in India.

Hahaha True.

From Afghan point of view it's pretty easy to choose between India and Pakistan.

India supports the official UN recognized government in Afghanistan. Their goal is for Afghanistan to become as strong as possible. The Official government in Afghanistan is corrupt to their teeth but still builds school, roads, hospital and tries to improve life in Afghanistan. Much better state than when they took over in 2001.

Pakistan goal is to make sure Afghanistan becomes as weak as possible. For obvious reasons. They want to install a government of Taliban who they do not want in their own country, because Taliban is backwards. Mentally in the year. Extremly conservative and have no problem killing as many shia as possible even though they make up 15% of the population.

Have you ever heard Taliban building a school? Or road? or a hospital? All they do in the areas they occupay is destroy the existing infrastructure.

Then Pakistanis complain why Afghans love India and hate Pakistan.
 
Hahaha True.

From Afghan point of view it's pretty easy to choose between India and Pakistan.

India supports the official UN recognized government in Afghanistan. Their goal is for Afghanistan to become as strong as possible. The Official government in Afghanistan is corrupt to their teeth but still builds school, roads, hospital and tries to improve life in Afghanistan. Much better state than when they took over in 2001.

Pakistan goal is to make sure Afghanistan becomes as weak as possible. For obvious reasons. They want to install a government of Taliban who they do not want in their own country, because Taliban is backwards. Mentally in the year. Extremly conservative and have no problem killing as many shia as possible even though they make up 15% of the population.

Have you ever heard Taliban building a school? Or road? or a hospital? All they do in the areas they occupay is destroy the existing infrastructure.

Then Pakistanis complain why Afghans love India and hate Pakistan.


When Americans / Nato were in Afghanistan going full throttle... why locals didn't snitch on Taliban hideouts?

Taliban, who are unbeaten against Americans / Nato war machine, why would they listen to Pakistan/IK/ISI? What kind of leverage do Pakistan have on Taliban to make them do their bidding?

Afghans bite the hand which is literally feeding millions of them. Instead of going through the whole process of man-up and resolve their internal issues, it is easier to blame Pakistan.
 
When Americans / Nato were in Afghanistan going full throttle... why locals didn't snitch on Taliban hideouts?
Taliban were literally wiped from Afghanistan initially. They literally resurrected in Pakistani madrassas.
Taliban, who are unbeaten against Americans / Nato war machine, why would they listen to Pakistan/IK/ISI? What kind of leverage do Pakistan have on Taliban to make them do their bidding?

Taliban key figures all live in Pakistan along with their families. Why is Pakistan letting Taliban live in Pakistan? Why do Taliban fly to Qatar and Moscow from Pakistan? Why do they fly using Pakistani Passports? Why to they get medical treatment in Pakistani hospitals? Where do Taliban get their ammo from? How does Taliban make money? Do you thing the Taliban fighters eat stones and mud? How do you think they provide for their family? They need a salary! Pakistan is supporting Taliban agenda to take over Afghanistan.

Afghans bite the hand which is literally feeding millions of them. Instead of going through the whole process of man-up and resolve their internal issues, it is easier to blame Pakistan.[/QUOTE]

No one is complaining. Pakistanis here blame India for interfering in Afghanistan. Both are playing their game. I am just saying from Afghan point of view I prefer India over Pakistan as their game at least benefit us.
 
Taliban were literally wiped from Afghanistan initially. They literally resurrected in Pakistani madrassas.
Let's assume what you are saying is correct. Then who has been shooting at American / Nato troops for 2 decades.

This is not a video game, where you build a portal near a Pakistani madrassa and another one in a random cave inside Afghanistan, then you click on your recently cooked troops and teleport them straight to Afghanistan :facepalm:


Taliban key figures all live in Pakistan along with their families. Why is Pakistan letting Taliban live in Pakistan? Why do Taliban fly to Qatar and Moscow from Pakistan? Why do they fly using Pakistani Passports? Why to they get medical treatment in Pakistani hospitals? Where do Taliban get their ammo from? How does Taliban make money? Do you thing the Taliban fighters eat stones and mud? How do you think they provide for their family? They need a salary! Pakistan is supporting Taliban agenda to take over Afghanistan.

Right now there are more than 3 million refugees in Pakistan. This is a massive number. Pakistan (or any other country in the world) can't figure out who is who. It is duty of Pak gov to provide healthcare, food and jobs to people who live inside Pakistan. Many of these refugees have kids who are born in Pakistan, which makes them Pakistanis of Afghan origin.

And precisely, Taliban do not eat mud. Local people provide them with rations, hideouts and ammo. Logic, witnesses and video evidence shows massive Taliban support inside Afghanistan.


No one is complaining. Pakistanis here blame India for interfering in Afghanistan. Both are playing their game. I am just saying from Afghan point of view I prefer India over Pakistan as their game at least benefit us.

The corrupt puppet government is disintegrating as each second passes. Before September finishes, it will be completely gone, Insha'Allah.
 
The leaders of the TTP who are mercenaries. This is nothing new, such
asymmetrical warfare has been seen many times before. Again Pak made a mistake joining the immoral war even allowing drone strikes on their own people but those days are long gone now. Pak army now has almost wiped them out. Its a lot easier to do this when their is no foriegn support.

If the leaders of TTP are mercenaries, meaning they're primarily motivated on monetary terms rather than ideologically, wouldn't it make sense for Pakistan to simply pay them off more than what India does to buy their loyalty? Besides, wouldn't it make more sense for India to buy mercenaries in Pakistan's side of Kashmir to foment trouble there and give headaches to Pakistan in their side of the Kashmir just like India has its own issues in the Kashmir valley, rather than going all the way to Afghanistan to cause trouble in KPK. Or the ISI could pay off similar mercenaries to cause trouble in India, there's no shortage of people who want money in the world.

The simple fact is, a movement headed by mercenaries will never be sustained and get popular support unless there's a prevailing sentiment in the society. Otherwise Pakistan could have paid off similar "mercenaries" in Punjab or even elsewhere to cause trouble for the Indian state. Most of the fighters in the current Afghan Taliban were borne out of brainwashing of the Afghan refugees (and fighters from Pakistan too) in the hundreds of madrassas set up in Waziristan by the likes of Zia to deal with the problem posed by a nationalist Afghanistan from Pakistan's pov.

When you brainwash thousands of young impressionable men that any form of nationalism or democratic government is a sin and that muslim societies must always be governed by shariah rules, so as to have a favourable regime in Afghanistan [from Pakistan's pov, an islamist regime in Afghanistan is always better than a (ethno)nationalist one there], then think from the pov of a person who grew up in such an environment. For him, he wouldn't find difference between Afghanistan or Pakistan and particularly for a person who was born and brought up in Waziristan and grew up in such a radicalising environment, he would of course want shariah in his region too just like his Afghan mates in the Afghan Taliban who fight for shariah in Afghanistan.

I know the TTP and Afghan Taliban are different entities, but the TTP definitely seeks inspiration from the ideology of Al-Qaeda or the Afghan Taliban. The ones who did the siege of the Lal masjid in Islamabad were also closely allied with Al Qaeda and inspired by Bin Laden. You can't brainwash thousands of fighters and expect them to be islamist in Afghanistan and defy their democratic government there but suddenly obey the laws of the land and democracy in Pakistan. It doesn't work like that. The TTP deals in a lot of suicide attacks against the Pakistani military and even the minorities like shia or the hazara population and it's not easy to find mercenaries who blow themselves up for a cause unless they're ideologically motivated rather than monetarily motivated like you seem to imply.

I cant think of any other reason why India is desperate to remain in Afghanistan. Can you think of any? Please dont tell me they care. $3 billion would have done a lot of caring for the hundreds of millions of poor in India. Do you support Indian boots in Afghanistan and do you think they could do what Nato couldnt?

I'm not under any illusions and believe India is the most noble and therefore supporting the Afghan government. Countries ally with each other and support each other for mutual interests, that's why the Soviet Union allied with India in the past and that's why China allies with Pakistan currently. From an Indian pov, a stable Afghanistan is in its interests because then it would provide them a route through Iran and Afghanistan to access central asia, as their relations with Pakistan are strained due to obvious reasons. Besides, a stable Afghanistan is in India's best interests for the same reason that a stable Pakistan is in China's interests - that they would serve as counterweights for their respective rivals in the region (Pakistan in the case of India and India in the case of China).

And no, I would never support the presence of Indian foot soldiers in Afghanistan. That would be a debacle and would not happen in a million years anyway. That said, apart from all the realpolitik talk, I personally think the Afghan government is better suited for the future of the Afghan people than any form of Taliban. The Afghans largely seem to think the same and it's always better to support something what the people of a region want than what they oppose. I don't think India should provide foot soldiers, nor do I think the Afghan government will ask for it, but I do think India needs to support Afghanistan in whatever way it can, whether by building infrastructure or dams or hospitals or even providing non personnel military support in the form of arms and ammunition.
 
Pak posters here can blame India for terrorism in their country all day long, but the fact is that, had the ISI not supported the Taliban in the first place, the likes of TTP would never have sprung up in their country. Pakistanis blaming India entirely for terrorism in Pakistan is like Indians blaming Pakistan entirely for the Kashmir insurgency while ignoring the underlying cause for it.

A very simplistic take I think. Doesn't take into account Soviet invasion, the following situation that Pakistan tried to make best of, the fact that TTP have little to do with Afghan Taliban, the fact that Baloch terrorists are still unexplained by this hypothesis. Don't see how ISI not supporting Afghan Taliban would have made any difference. Afghan Taliban was going to happen regardless of ISI after Soviets left and US stepped out. You make it sound like these warlords just came out of a Genie's bottle owned by ISI.
 
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A very simplistic take I think. Doesn't take into account Soviet invasion, the following situation that Pakistan tried to make best of, the fact that TTP have little to do with Afghan Taliban, the fact that Baloch terrorists are still unexplained by this hypothesis. Don't see how ISI not supporting Afghan Taliban would have made any difference. Afghan Taliban was going to happen regardless of ISI after Soviets left and US stepped out. You make it sound like these warlords just came out of a Genie's bottle owned by ISI.

1. The Taliban has nothing to do with the Soviet invasion. The Taliban didn't take hold as a movement when the Soviets were in town. The Taliban came into prominence only after the exit of the Soviet Union and a power vacuum resulted in a civil war between various factions in Afghanistan.

2. The TTP and Afghan Taliban are not the same entities, I've said it many times here. That being said, the TTP's ideology is based on islamism/islamic fundamentalism which is not that different from the ideology of outfits like the Afghan Taliban or the Al Qaeda. Basically, the Afghan Taliban strives to establish an islamic state governed by shariah in Afghanistan while the TTP wants to do the same in Pakistan. Their motives are the same, where they want to implement their motives is the only thing that differs. Pakistan would rather want an islamic state in Afghanistan so that they don't have the threat of an ethnonationalist Afghanistan which doesn't recognise the Durand line. They support the Taliban in Afghanistan because they want a friendly regime in power there, or at the very least, a regime that's "not" friendly to India in Afghanistan. At the same time, they don't want the Taliban to run amok in their own territory which is what the TTP wants to do.

3. An insurgency cannot happen in any region without an underlying sentiment prevailing in the society. A few hundred mercenaries simply cannot sustain an insurgent movement unless there is a sentiment to fuel that insurgency in the society. Who's terrorist for you may not be the same for the insurgents. Pakistanis do not consider the LeT militants as terrorists but they're considered terrorists from the Indian pov. It's the same with Baloch militants, they are terrorists for Pakistan, but not so much from Indian pov. At the end of the day, who's a terrorist and who's not depends on which side of the line you're standing.

In any case, the Baloch insurgency is not due to a few hundred hindu nationalists entering Balochistan and fighting the Pakistani state. It's sustained by Baloch militants themselves. There is an underlying reason for that. Balochistan is the largest province and is also probably the richest in terms of natural resources in Pakistan. It's very sparsely populated too. But it's also by far the most undeveloped region in not just Pakistan, but the entire subcontinent and has some social indicators that would put a few sub Saharan countries to shame. Waziristan and the surrounding regions have also been neglected for a long time by the Pakistani state and it is these two regions that have the least social progress in Pakistan. It's natural that these regions would have a feeling of discontent and a negative sentiment towards the Pakistani state. I consciously make an effort to listen to the narrative of Kashmiris themselves so that my judgement on the Kashmir dispute is not clouded by what I see in the Indian media alone. Perhaps a few Pakistanis need to do the same and listen to the many accounts of enforced disappearances in Balochistan and not simply dismiss them as terrorists or the agenda of the left liberals who are anti Pakistan (I know because nationalists talk the same language in every country).

4. The "warlords" you speak of are not very different to the ones in power in Afghanistan. Ahmad Shah Massoud was a former warlord and so was Abdul Rashid Dostum. Ghani was probably a former one too, while Hekmatyar a prominent warlord is on the Taliban side now. Afghanistan has always been ruled by different factions headed by warlords based on ethnic and ethnoreligious lines. After American intervention in Afghanistan in the war on terror, the Taliban would not have arisen back to power without external support from Pakistan, which leaders like Imran and Musharraf have admitted in the past in interviews. Pakistan did so to achieve its own geopolitical interests, not sure why that's a difficult position to admit.
 
1. The Taliban has nothing to do with the Soviet invasion. The Taliban didn't take hold as a movement when the Soviets were in town. The Taliban came into prominence only after the exit of the Soviet Union and a power vacuum resulted in a civil war between various factions in Afghanistan.

Mullah Umar is the actual founder of Afghan Taliban.

He fought against Soviets all his life and when they left he started living in Afghanistan.

Legend has it when he was running a Madrassa (small school) somewhere in Afghanistan, a local warlord (who regularly abducted children and raped them) abducted 2 girls. These girls' family went to him and the authorities but were unable to get them back.

Then they went to Mullah Umar, who asked his students ( student literally means Talib ) to grab their AK47s and fought against the pedophile and his goons to bring these girls back home.

(^ source required; y'all can research and correct me)

It is false to say that Taliban have nothing to do with Soviet Invasion. These are same Afghan people and their children who fought against Soviets, Americans and NATO. And they'll keep on fighting against whoever invades their country. They have been doing so for centuries.

People overestimate ISI and the belief that Pak somehow controlled then Afghan Mujahideen and now Afghan Taliban is ridiculous.

Time has proven it.

The reason why Pakistan is supporting these Afghan Taliban is simply because they can't be bought by India to do terrorist activities inside Pakistan.
 
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Mullah Umar is the actual founder of Afghan Taliban.

He fought against Soviets all his life and when they left he started living in Afghanistan.

Legend has it when he was running a Madrassa (small school) somewhere in Afghanistan, a local warlord (who regularly abducted children and raped them) abducted 2 girls. These girls' family went to him and the authorities but were unable to get them back.

Then they went to Mullah Umar, who asked his students ( student literally means Talib ) to grab their AK47s and fought against the pedophile and his goons to bring these girls back home.

(^ source required; y'all can research and correct me)

It is false to say that Taliban have nothing to do with Soviet Invasion. These are same Afghan people and their children who fought against Soviets, Americans and NATO.

Mullah Omar being in the Soviet war has nothing to do with the Taliban as the Taliban didn't exist as an organisation during the Soviet Afghan war.

And they'll keep on fighting against whoever invades their country. They have been doing so for centuries.

I don't know why people keep repeating this trope here. It's almost as if people for some reason think the Afghan government and Afghan army is made up of Indians, Americans and the Brits.

People overestimate ISI and the belief that Pak somehow controlled then Afghan Mujahideen and now Afghan Taliban is ridiculous.

Time has proven it.

The reason why Pakistan is supporting these Afghan Taliban is simply because they can't be bought by India to do terrorist activities inside Pakistan.

But at the cost of suffering of Afghan people.
 
In the long run I think this policy of Pakistan will fail miserably.

Taliban had until now created a fake legitimacy for themselves that Afghanistan government are not islamic and it's american government and country is occupied. Now America is gone. Foreign troops are gone.

Why are they still fighting? It will expose them as people continue to suffer. The little support they have will fade away.

And even if they capture the country. What is their goal? Afghanistan is already a 100% muslim country and more conservative than Pakistan and most muslim countries.

They can't create jobs. They can't build infrastructure. They can't create and education system. Obviously that's Pakistan dream scenario, but I think the past 20 years Afghans have seen good life and won't go back to Taliban 90's regime with forced big beard. All women in burqa. Not allowed to go outside without a male relative. No music or movies. Basically sooner or later they will be defeated.

Left will be a country who hate Pakistan and love India. I think it's already the case.
 
The other day there was a story Taliban fighters had captured son and father went home to get papers to prove he did not work for government. Before he could get the papers they shot the son and then forced the family to provide food for the fighters.

Then they captured a comedian and killed him. For what? For being a comedian.

And that's not it. Latest reports say that Indian Pulitzer winning photographer Danish Siddiqui was apparently not killed in crossfire. He had been travelling with an Afghan military unit while trying to defend Spin boldak and capturing the war in action as the press. The unit apparently got split up and he got hit by a shrapnel. He went to a mosque to get first aid but word soon got out to the Taliban that a journalist was inside the mosque. The Taliban reportedly confirmed his identity as a journalist and then executed him in cold blood. The Afghan army unit commander and three other soldiers also died while trying to save Danish. But all is well apparently as the Taliban are freedom fighters.

"Taliban Verified Danish Siddiqui's Identity, Then Executed Him": Report

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/tal...dentity-then-executed-him-says-report-2498121
 
In the long run I think this policy of Pakistan will fail miserably.

Taliban had until now created a fake legitimacy for themselves that Afghanistan government are not islamic and it's american government and country is occupied. Now America is gone. Foreign troops are gone.

Why are they still fighting? It will expose them as people continue to suffer. The little support they have will fade away.

And even if they capture the country. What is their goal? Afghanistan is already a 100% muslim country and more conservative than Pakistan and most muslim countries.

They can't create jobs. They can't build infrastructure. They can't create and education system. Obviously that's Pakistan dream scenario, but I think the past 20 years Afghans have seen good life and won't go back to Taliban 90's regime with forced big beard. All women in burqa. Not allowed to go outside without a male relative. No music or movies. Basically sooner or later they will be defeated.

Left will be a country who hate Pakistan and love India. I think it's already the case.

Pakistan only want peace and CPEC to get complete ASAP.

Indian controlled terrorist cells have increased attacks on engineers / constructors working on CPEC.

Taliban will do what they want to. If they decide to attack Pakistan then we will retaliate. On the other hand, if they want to remain peaceful then Pakistan is already insisting on it.
 
Who cares about Afghans? Let them rot.

Right?

Nobody cares about Afghans. Rather, nobody should care for Afghans but themselves.

Who cares about me? or my family? It is simple, it was ever every man to himself. Rest is all propaganda.

Russians, Americans, Pakistanis or Indians; all care for themselves and their interests.

As I said, Afghans must "man-up" and take their country from puppet government. Which they are doing. ANA are laying down their weapons and joining Taliban. Nobody is forcing them to do so, not ISI, not IK or Pakistan.

It has been said so may times in this forum, there is a fake propaganda powered matrix created by media and then there is reality.

When reality happens people have struggle accepting facts.
 
And that's not it. Latest reports say that Indian Pulitzer winning photographer Danish Siddiqui was apparently not killed in crossfire. He had been travelling with an Afghan military unit while trying to defend Spin boldak and capturing the war in action as the press. The unit apparently got split up and he got hit by a shrapnel. He went to a mosque to get first aid but word soon got out to the Taliban that a journalist was inside the mosque. The Taliban reportedly confirmed his identity as a journalist and then executed him in cold blood. The Afghan army unit commander and three other soldiers also died while trying to save Danish. But all is well apparently as the Taliban are freedom fighters.

"Taliban Verified Danish Siddiqui's Identity, Then Executed Him": Report

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/tal...dentity-then-executed-him-says-report-2498121

Taliban are real scumbags. The people of this forum talking about them as the real Afghans has no idea.
The funny fact is they do not want Taliban in Pakistan and hate them for the blood they shed in Pakistan. But call them real Afghans and want them in power in Afghanistan. It's like you want vollyball in Afghanistan and do not want vollyball in Pakistan. It's the same thing. They have same mindset Taliban of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
 
Taliban have nothing to do with pakistan ,it's an indigenous afghan movement and even has tajiks and Uzbek among its ranks in the North.

Pakistan has its own taliban problem in the pakistani taliban ttp in pakistan who have escaped over the border , reason they didn't get a footing is due to the sacrifice of pakistan army and its operations and ttp being rejected by the local populace .

On the other hand the Afghan taliban stood their ground on the battlefield and infact have massive local support which increased further due to the war crimes of the west and criminal afghan army made mostly up of criminals , without local support no insurgency can function.
 
Taliban are real scumbags. The people of this forum talking about them as the real Afghans has no idea.
The funny fact is they do not want Taliban in Pakistan and hate them for the blood they shed in Pakistan. But call them real Afghans and want them in power in Afghanistan. It's like you want vollyball in Afghanistan and do not want vollyball in Pakistan. It's the same thing. They have same mindset Taliban of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

They are real Afghans; whether you like them or not. Same way Adolf Hitler was Austrian-born German!

Pakistanis support them (so far) because "Indian embassies" (literal terrorist camps inside Afghanistan) and other TTP hideouts are getting targeted and closed which in consequence means less terrorist attacks inside Pakistan.

Buddy.
 
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